Serious Problems Confront ACNA as Bishop Ruch Returns to Face Questions on His Response to Abuse

Stephan’s Quintet as captured by the James Webb telescope. NASA

Never ascribe to an opponent motives meaner than your own. James M. Barrie


I am sorry to have to repeat this. I am doing so in case there is someone who doesn’t know of my short but painful connection to the Anglican church. When I left my SBC church, distraught over the treatment by the leaders of one of the many victims, his family, and those of us who sought to bring their truth into the light, we decided to try the local Anglican church. Dee thought they would be helpful to us as we sorted out what happened to us. After all, the Anglican church went through its own abuse as it sought to leave the Episcopal Church and form its own governance. “Surely they get abuse,” I said to my husband. I was wrong. Sadly, I saw the husband of my kids’ schoolteacher walking around the church. He had just gotten out of prison for touching little girls.  I knew two pedophiles, one at my former church who was in jail and one who had just gotten out of prison.

I wrote a quick note to the pastor, who told me his parole officer said he was “no problem and just fine. “I knew he had a 30-year history of molestation and said that to the pastor. I was ignored. I should have left then, but I was still learning. Then, the pastor, totally clueless when it came to the SBC, asked us why we didn’t move our concerns up the chain of command in the denomination. He told us that we had to reconcile with our former pastor before we could join the church. I left his office crying, never to return. My husband went to our former pastor and told him to leave us alone and let us go. We then got a letter from the church saying we could now join. By that time, I had started this blog.

Eventually, that pedophile did something and was thrown out of the church. The pastor was also fired at some point. I believe that that church would handle things very differently today, as I learned from someone who attended there. But God had other plans for us, and after a few pit stops, we landed in our Lutheran church, which embraced us.

I say this to reassure some folks that I, too, had my own experience with the Anglican church, which mishandled our situation and also mishandled a pedophile.

Bishop Stewart Ruch returns, causing upset amongst some in ACNA.

When we last left Bishop Stewart Ruch, he was taking advantage of a voluntary leave of absence which some could interpret as leaving the scene of the accident until things calmed down. According to Religion News Services in ACNA Bishop Stewart Ruch, accused of spiritual abuse, ends voluntary leave,  I imagine that he and the various mucky mucks feel things are looking up for Ruch. However, in my review of social media, this is being viewed by some with a jaundiced eye.

Ruch stepped away from leadership in July of 2021, after admitting he had made “regrettable errors” in responding to allegations of sexual abuse by a lay minister in the diocese.

The following excerpt from RNS discusses reasons there are expressions of concern in various quarters.

He and other leaders failed to act quickly on allegations against lay minister Mark Rivera, who is currently facing trial for felony child sexual abuse, according to a third-party review released in September.

That report from investigative firm Husch Blackwell found that church leaders defended Rivera and questioned the motives of abuse survivors — and also allowed a different volunteer, who’d been fired as a teacher for inappropriate behavior with one of his students, to continue in leadership.

The third-party investigators were barred from recommending any punishment for Ruch and other leaders. Ruch faces a separate denominational investigation into allegations he abused his authority as a church leader.

Let me spell this out more clearly.

  • He (along with some others) failed to act quickly (putting it mildly)  to accusations against a lay minister, Mark Rivera, currently facing trial for child sexual abuse.
  • Ruch questioned the motives of abuse survivors! (What a guy!)
  • He allowed another volunteer, who had been fired for inappropriate behavior with a student, to continue in leadership.

Pastors, questioning motives is nonsense and may indicate potential spiritual abuse being used to cover up one’s complicity.

One of the best pastors I had in my life had a little saying that TWW readers have heard over and over.

“Even on my best days, my motives are mixed.”

Please be aware of the extent of this statement. It means, due to our sinful nature and inability to sometimes judge our own behavior and thought, it is nigh on impossible to be sure of our own motives, let alone the motives of others. To question the motives of abused persons is equivalent to adding to their original abuse. People who have been sexually abused rarely lie. Who in their right mind wants to discuss such a difficult occurrence? For years, abusive individuals have used this tactic to attempt to control a narrative they do not wish to hear.

In this case, it appears Ruch didn’t want to hear about his good buddy, Rivera. Why didn’t he want to hear about it? Did he feel guilty knowing he hadn’t dealt with telltale signs? Who knows? I can’t judge motives. Only He, Who is at a higher pay grade than me, can do so. Judge actions, not motives.

Pro-tip for those who still don’t get what I’m saying: Ask who is more likely to lie: the molester or the victim of the molester?

I love to rant on this topic.

For those of you who remember the Rivera situation and not the Chris Laperyre situation.

The Roys Report on 9/3/22 reported Third-Party Report Details ACNA Leaders’ Inaction On Sexual Abuse Allegations.

Four years earlier, in 2015, several leaders became aware that a lay leader at Christ Our Light Anglican, Chris Lapeyre, had been fired from a high school teaching position that year over concerns about a relationship with a female student, according to the report.

The Rev. Rand York, a priest at the church, told investigators he knew that Lapeyre had lost his job and why but allowed Lapeyre to stay in leadership, saying that he “was not concerned about Lapeyre interacting with young people at COLA because Lapeyre had three daughters of his own.”

Ruch, bishop of the diocese, reportedly told investigators that he also knew that Lapeyre had been fired over a “boundary crossing” issue but took no action. Lapeyre said his termination didn’t limit his leadership opportunities at either Christ Our Light Anglican or Church of the Resurrection, the diocesan headquarters in Wheaton.

The report states that Lapeyre, a friend of Rivera’s, told investigators he was aware of sexual misconduct by Rivera involving an adult woman in 2018 but did not tell anyone about it until 2020.

Those who are abuser-centric and not victim-centric do not belong in church leadership.

In this situation, we have two unrelated abusers whose stories appear to have been ignored by Bishop Ruch: Rivera, on trial for the molestation of a child, and Lapeyre, who lost his high school teaching position due to a relationship with a female student. Let’s add a creep faction to this: Lapeyre was a friend of Rivera’s who heard about Rivera’s sexual misconduct with a woman but kept it quiet for two years. Don’t they call this sort of thing “honor amongst thieves?”

It appears that Ruch’s LOA was voluntary, and so was his return.

Sounds like a long vacay to me. Was he paid? Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

“he has chosen to return to the discese in his capacity of Bishop.”

A tone-deaf, cheery note from the Upper Midwest Diocesan Office

I wish they would call me before sending out such a jolly note. Maybe they’re sipping on holiday cheer a bit too early? Surely these folks know better. If they don’t, then such a note must not be well received by the Anglican survivor community. The office may be the only one that looks forward to welcoming him back to work.

Dear Upper Midwest Diocese,

The Provincial office sent this announcement earlier today regarding Bishop Stewart Ruch’s return from his voluntary leave of absence. Bishop Stewart is resuming active ministry on October 30 following consultation with Archbishop Foley and other members of the College of Bishops. You can read Bishop Stewart’s letter to the Diocese here.

The diocesan office looks forward to welcoming him back to work, and we hope to have more to communicate to you soon.

Brenda Dumper
Lay Canon to the Ordinary
Upper Midwest Diocesan Office

The folks at ACNAtoo were not pleased with the choice for the independent investigation.

Given the fiasco surrounding the release and then the disappearance of the report, it looks like they were right.

This is a link to A Statement on the Husch Blackwell Report.

The ACNAtoo survivors and their advocates have consistently requested a demonstrably independent third-party investigation and identified concerns about the ACNA’s contract with Husch Blackwell (HB). HB’s public report, released on September 27, 2022, provides ample evidence those concerns were justified, as we will explain below and in upcoming posts.

…Note how HB states in the report introduction: “We were explicitly directed not to render any legal determination, evaluate or opine about any structural governance issues or to seek to address whether discipline was warranted.” (p. 1)

In the conclusion, HB writes: “Per the terms of our engagement, we have not rendered any legal determination or assessment of other policies or rules.” (p. 57)

Limited scope of the investigation.

In other words, the Province ignored survivor and advocate concerns and instead limited the scope of what HB could investigate and specifically prohibited them from analyzing the data they collected.

UMD (Upper Midwest Diocese) declined to waive attorney-client privilege, excluding evidence.

The HB report does not include an explanation of their evidence parameters or collection process in the UMD investigation; however, when the institution declines to waive attorney-client privilege, as the ACNA did in this case, that privilege automatically protects crucial internal communications and other corroborating evidence from discovery. It is impossible to claim a comprehensive factual investigation while excluding select evidence.

The abuse policies of UMD are not mentioned.

 examination of diocesan child protection policies is absent.

Who will draw legal and ethical conclusions since HB couldn’t make that per contract?

The report states that the scope of HB’s contract prohibited them from drawing legal or ethical conclusions and from characterizing the facts based on their extensive experience. To whom is that task left?

Uh oh: other dioceses have similar “issues.”

How many bishops have active abuse and mishandling situations in their dioceses? ACNAtoo currently knows of at least seven. Will the bishops in those seven dioceses read this report, and, if so, what conclusions will they draw about the type of investigation to pursue? What precedent will this set?

Another uh oh regarding the Provincial Investigative Team (PIT)

Please read the bios of the Provincial Investigative Team here and decide for yourself if they have the skill sets specific to abuse response and prevention that would make them your first choice to render an institutional assessment. Also note that all but one member of the PIT are ACNA leaders. Would you consider an investigation in which the institution investigating itself is responsible for all interpretation and recommendations to be legitimately independent?

The report came out, and then it disappeared.

Read the following note from the UMD. So when will the report be rereleased?

HUSCH BLACKWELL REPORT UPDATE
Oct 1, 2022

In the meantime, in the Via Apostolic Missionary District…

Provincial Investigative Team Concerning Bishop Todd Atkinson
Allegations of misconduct, including the abuse of ecclesiastical power, have been made against Bishop Todd Atkinson of the Via Apostolica Missionary District, based in Alberta, Canada. Bishop Atkinson is on a leave of absence and Bishop Quigg Lawrence, Bishop Suffragan of the Diocese of Christ Our Hope, has been appointed to work with Via Apostolica during this season. A Provincial Investigative Team has been formed to look into these matters, and is beginning its work. You can learn more about the members of that team below.

We are inviting individuals with relevant information to confidentially reach out to the Provincial Investigative Team at tainvestigation@anglicanchurch.net about how to participate in the investigation.

Those who want to receive official updates regarding the Atkinson matter can subscribe here.

Final thoughts:

How does a group of men screw up a new denomination in such a short time? In my short time in an Anglican church, I heard about the Anglicans splitting into rival factions. One incident I heard about was some American Bishop or other such leader calling a Rwandan Bishop and one of the prominent time leaders “a knucklehead.” This apparently had serious ramifications. It reminds me of the Three Stooges.

For me, the real sticking point is saliently clear. If victims are being ignored or denigrated and molesters are ignored because they are leaders, then this denomination has some serious problems. Jesus spent his ministry looking out for those pointedly ignored by the ruling priests of the day. He didn’t seem too enamored of a particular group of Pharisees that he called snakes, hypocrites, and whitewashed tombs. In Matthew 23:4, He said:

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

May the ACNA leaders learn to trust the victims and not add burdens to their struggles. Jesus demands it.

Comments

Serious Problems Confront ACNA as Bishop Ruch Returns to Face Questions on His Response to Abuse — 46 Comments


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    Dee, I think a tweet you sent out recently applies here:

    “This is important. Any leader who dismisses survivors [and those who advocate for survivors, as in your case mentioned here] should not be in any leadership position, ever. Picture Jesus who always was drawn to the hurting and marginalized.”


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    I’m baffled, I really am.
    Stuff (the tap-dancing and cover ups) that would have zero-tolerance in the secular world seems to get a pass in the high circles of ACNA.


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    Muff Potter: in the secular world

    In quite a lot of industries and among the over 35s, yes. It was religions with their “aggiornamento” that took their eye off the ball, bringing in compartmentalised and deniable “youth activities” to achieve permanent open season.


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    Muff Potter: (the tap-dancing and cover ups)

    Honoring and upholding inappropriate desires and delusions of men, while denying the wellbeing and safety of targeted disposable women, youth, and children.

    Creating monsters (with their princesses of privilege) and an underclass of the rest of us, disposables.

    This went on back in the day (reference to Christa Brown et al, and Houston Chronicle’s database of old buzzard predators). The culture, theology, and practice have grown exponentially with media and mob thumbs up votes as well as crowd sourcing financial support. Are crowds really that ignorant and gullible? Apparently yes.


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    Jack,

    On their way out, away from the oh so liberal rest of the Anglicans, taking a good look at your fellow leavers wasn’t necessary – purity of doctrine trumps everything.


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    Gus,

    As Wade B would say “Does your theology trump your love?”


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    Ava Aaronson,

    So you hang out in the Twitterverse as well? It is a source of information for me, and it helps me keep up with advocates like Julie Anne Smith. Contrary to many, I have had a decent Twitter experience. I think part of the reason is that I do not discuss politics. I made this stand pretty early on, and every day I am relieved that I did so.


  8. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “How does a group of men screw up a new denomination in such a short time?”

    The devil is in the details.


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I was at a Weird Al concert last night and Emo Phillips was the warm up act. One of his jokes was “When I was young I wanted to be a priest. But not for the usual reasons. I wanted to serve God.”


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    me: “When I was young I wanted to be a priest. But not for the usual reasons. I wanted to serve God.”

    To transfer this thought to America’s Christian Industrial Complex, I wonder what percentage of evangelical pastors go into the ministry “to serve God.”? How many would be satisfied to serve Him in obscure places without fame or fortune? How many could minister a lifetime in mini-churches, not mega-churches?


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    Muff Potter:
    I’m baffled, I really am.
    Stuff (the tap-dancing and cover ups) that would have zero-tolerance in the secular world seems to get a pass in the high circles of ACNA.

    Isaiah 55:9 (sarc)


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Gus: purity of doctrine trumps everything.

    Just like the Jacobins and Khmer Rouge!!


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The ACNA and CANA and whatever else split from the Episcopal Church was tremendously painful for people in my region. So much ugly behavior. People didn’t just leave Episcopal congregations after earnest, prayerful discernment. They accused those who wanted to remain Episcopalian of supporting sexual sin. They tried to shame their friends into leaving too. In some cases, they booted out lifelong members. When they got sued, they complained about the “worldly” courts. Fortunately it all calmed down after a few years.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    dee: As Wade B would say “Does your theology trump your love?”

    A quote that’s definitely applicable to the New Calvinist movement! “Love” is not the primary identifier that pops to mind when describing the NeoCal dudebros … “arrogance” is. And that pride springs from their “we alone hold truth” theology, as they run roughshod over the American church to restore the true gospel (Calvinism = Gospel). Yep, no one has accused New Calvinists of being a loving lot … their theology trumps love.


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Many years ago in the Four Corners region our church was searching for pastor to serve a mission church we funded. On the best of days that mission might have 20 people. And that would probably have been around 100% of people living in that area. They could not afford a pastor obviously, but we could afford to pay the preacher for them. And it would have been a living wage, decent salary.

    One guy came and preached to us a gangbuster sermon. He went out to see the mission in the afternoon. Came back and told us it would be such a shame to waste his considerable talents in such a desolate tiny church. God could use him so much more in a larger church.

    I figured right then and there he was not called to preach.

    (No, he would not be taking a cut in pay. Yes, living conditions were beautiful scenery, nice housing, good benefits. As good as where he was and then some.)


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    Max: And that pride springs from their “we alone hold truth” theology,

    “We Alone Hold TRVTH” is also the mantra of the Moonies, Communists, and Objectivists.


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    me: One of his jokes was “When I was young I wanted to be a priest. But not for the usual reasons. I wanted to serve God.”

    🙂


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    Friend,

    When I first started attending a local Anglican church, I thought that it was strange that there were 2 Anglican churches in the area and that they didn’t really associate with each other. Later, while attending the second church, I found out that there were “issues” related to leaving the Episcopal Church and the founding of the first church. Evidently, the pastor at the second church was “prayerfully” and carefully considering leaving the Episcopal church. A number of the leadership team didn’t want to wait for his approval and went to the new Anglican (AMiA) church plant and became leaders there. The second church left the Episcopal church and joined the ACNA less than 6 months after the first church was founded.

    I had major concerns about the AMiA churches/ pastors when the whole blow-up happened because I think the founding circumstances create a culture in the organization. Then, there is a fundamental sense of their own “rightness” in the ACNA in general.


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    Jack: The ACNA is not “the” Anglican Church. They don’t share communion with the other Anglican churches.

    They appear to be a right wing offshoot

    Strictly speaking they aren’t recognized as part of the Anglican Communion by the Church of England/Archbishop of Canterbury (the ABC effectively defines who is in the Anglican Communion). Note “in communion” is a greater set than being in the Anglican Communion, for instance the Church of England is in also in the Porvoo Communion but that doesn’t make the other churches in the Porvoo Communion in the Anglican Communion (the US Episcopal Church is in communion with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America but that does not make the ELCA in the Anglican Communion). The ACNA are recognized by some churches in the Anglican Communion (Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches).

    I would say they are conservative who definitely don’t want gays and lesbians in the pulpit and are somewhat iffy on women.


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    Micah,

    I’m sorry you were caught up in this. It’s such a shame, because Anglican liturgy is absolutely beautiful, and the Book of Common Prayer contains so many wonderful passages.

    The notion of the via media, finding the middle way, should help to guide individual Christians and congregations to work things through.


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    linda: told us it would be such a shame to waste his considerable talents in such a desolate tiny church.

    So why did he decide to become a pastor?


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    dee: Contrary to many, I have had a decent Twitter experience. I think part of the reason is that I do not discuss politics. I made this stand pretty early on, and every day I am relieved that I did so.

    Makes sense with regard to your focus, your mission, your why.

    OTOH, Ruth Ben-ghiat’s remarkable work is in sync with your work as she documents governance and leaders.

    Her research of democracies turned into autocracies through scheming cons parallels the Neo-Cal Cons in churches (IMHO from what I read here at TWW).

    Same playbook, different venues.


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    Friend,

    I didn’t even know what had happened until I was at the second church and heard some of the history of the split from the Episcopal church and put the pieces together. That was probably the least problematic piece that I experienced. The AMiA issue was the reason for attending the second Anglican church.

    I’ve had some deeply troubling experiences involving the bishops of the local churches. We have 3 local Anglican church, each is in a different diocese. I’m not surprised that people have had problems with other bishops, too.


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    Ava Aaronson: Her research of democracies turned into autocracies through scheming cons parallels the Neo-Cal Cons in churches (IMHO from what I read here at TWW).

    If/When remaining democracies transform to autocracies (what Ben-ghiat’s research documents), church will be eclipsed by “church”.

    Church and civil governance will be united at the crossroads via politics.

    Politics is “the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.”

    If the area is church community, then much of what is posted and discussed at TWW is political. NDAs, church covenants, CSA, etc., are essentially power issues.


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    Erp: Strictly speaking they aren’t recognized as part of the Anglican Communion by the Church of England/Archbishop of Canterbury

    This is a definitive list of the churches in communion with Canterbury, those which form the Anglican Communion and others like Old Catholics.

    https://europe.anglican.org/supplements/churches-in-communion-with-the-church-of-england


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    The rule tends to be if a church calls itself Anglican it isn’t in the worldwide Anglican Communion.
    Hints that it is in the communion would be
    -if it is called after a place
    E.g. Church in Wales
    – if it has the word episcopal in its name
    E.g. Episcopal church of Scotland (the church just called Church of Scotland is presbyterian in government)
    – or both!
    E g. Episcopal Church of Nairobi.

    They’re especially common in former British colonies but not elsewhere.


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    Micah: We have 3 local Anglican church, each is in a different diocese.

    Traditionally, a diocese is a geographical entity, and parishes have boundaries. Nobody tries to make people attend church in the parish (or diocese) where they live, but the boundaries ideally help to keep some sense of order, like boundaries between counties.

    It would be interesting to see geographical maps of the various Anglican denominations in the US, Canada, and elsewhere. Interesting, and probably very tiring.


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    Ava Aaronson: linda: told us it would be such a shame to waste his considerable talents in such a desolate tiny church.

    So why did he decide to become a pastor?

    He obviously wanted to use his considerable talents in a larger church that offered fame and fortune. The proud and talented perform for a paying audience; they serve to be adored and applauded. The humble and gifted serve wherever God calls them, stay as long as He wants them there, and “perform” only for Him and His children.


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    Max,

    This is another advantage of the old way, setting up geographical boundaries for a diocese (region, whatever it’s called). The church then needs to serve the whole area, not just the fancy places and wealthier people. Renewal is great, but constant reinvention and aggrandizement is not.


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    Friend: Here’s a list put together by the Anglican Communion

    Thanks, Friend, that’s what I was looking for but couldn’t find it. It’s not a complication for me personally being in England and in the parish of St Martin in the Bullring. No difficulty finding it at all!


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    Friend: Renewal is great, but constant reinvention and aggrandizement is not.

    Amen! As I look across the church landscape in America, I see more reinvention and aggrandizement than renewal. Not all tradition is bad.

    “Thus says the Lord,
    ‘Stand by the roads and look; ask for the ancient paths,
    Where the good way is; then walk in it,
    And you will find rest for your souls.’
    But they said, ‘We will not walk in it!’”

    (Jeremiah 6:16)


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    Max: As I look across the church landscape in America, I see more reinvention and aggrandizement than renewal.

    Including Reinventing The Wheel over and over and over.


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    Max: He obviously wanted to use his considerable talents in a larger church that offered fame and fortune.

    “Because I’m a CELEBRITY!!!!!”
    Just like those who ate the biggest plate of dog turds on Fear Factor – “I’m a CELEBRITY!!!!!”


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    John Berry: and others like Old Catholics.

    More CATHOLIC than the Trads, never mind the Pope.
    Who split from the Apostate RCC when False Doctrines were made Dogma by Vatican I.
    NOT Vatican II, Vatican I in mid-Victorian times.


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    Max: A quote that’s definitely applicable to the New Calvinist movement!“Love” is not the primary identifier that pops to mind when describing the NeoCal dudebros … “arrogance” is.And that pride springs from their “we alone hold truth” theology, as they run roughshod over the American church to restore the true gospel (Calvinism = Gospel).Yep, no one has accused New Calvinists of being a loving lot … their theology trumps love.

    I question whether it’s even *theology* that trumps some Christians’ love nowadays. ISTM it’s often closer to *ideology.*

    I’m seeing young people convert to all kinds of crazy iterations of Christianity because said iterations are supposedly “based.” Apparently “based” entails misogyny, racism (including virulent opposition to “race-mixing”), bigotry in general, rabid anti-Westernism, and vicious, vitriolic online rudeness.

    These zoomer and millennial kids aren’t converting to Jesus IMHO. They’re converting to ideology. Jesus has little or nothing to do with it. It’s all about being “based.” They’re in this perpetual quest to find the most “based” religion. Many of them end up leaving Christianity altogether, usually for Islam but sometimes even for Odinism (yes, actual resurrected paganism).

    It’s a very weird phenomenon.


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    Catholic Gate-Crasher: These zoomer and millennial kids aren’t converting to Jesus IMHO. They’re converting to ideology. Jesus has little or nothing to do with it

    How could they?! Jesus has no influence or authority in much of the American church. Heck, you can attend “churches” in communities across the land this Sunday and not even hear His name mentioned. We have a spiritual leadership crisis in America … an unholy pulpit leading multitudes astray.


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    Catholic Gate-Crasher: These zoomer and millennial kids aren’t converting to Jesus IMHO.

    So I’m a 50-something Anglo-Scot, and on that basis I’m going to stick up for the zoollennials for a minute.

    When I was the age they are the noo, I joined what turned out to be a cult. It was a cult in the same sense that Mars Hill was – that is, it was taken over very early on by an influential but divisive individual. But fae the outside it looked like a church that was going to Take_The_World_For_Jesus. I rejected traditional liturgical Christianity because it was all dead religion led by unsaved bishops who didn’t understand, like I did, that The_Bible_Is_The_Word_Of_God. And I wanted to fight, metaphorically at least, for a noble cause.

    By coincidence, I am the same age as Park Fiscal* and became a Christian at the same time, at age 18. I also wanted to be a leader, for the simple reason that people wouldn’t tell me what to do as much if I were. Now, I’m autistic. TL;DR – most people wouldn’t follow me out of a burning building. But had I been able to persuade people of my right to lead them, I might have become as entitled a narcissist as he is. So the nobility of my cause was always partial at best.

    All of which to say: zoollenials are converting to Jesus about as much as I did, and whatever they’re converting to they’re doing it for much the same reasons as I did. So I’m not going to be quick to judge them. It bothers me how many of my generation (and older) don’t seem to remember what it was like to be a teenager. I do (see “autistic” above; though there *are* other reasons for remembering one’s teenage years, of course).

    The challenge facing the likes of me can be phrased in many ways, but this one will do: To show them something worth giving their lives to, that involves loving their enemies in deed and not in doctrine. And to make sure they understand that this won’t change the world either, but it will at least be the Kingdom.

    * which rhymes with…


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    In Other News: GEFS!

    Best regards,

    God


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    Nick Bulbeck: I’m autistic. TL;DR … It bothers me how many of my generation (and older) don’t seem to remember what it was like to be a teenager. I do (see “autistic” above

    Nick, people like you and me have MORE empathy than is common, not less as hate speech maintains. How many people whitewash the Zacharias family’s denomination of origin and think it wasn’t hellish of them to browbeat Ravi on his hospital bed at age 17?

    They drove him totally off the rails then, due to their foul doctrines, and thereby millions of others by now. It would have been humane to send him back to playing cricket. Reading about this tragedy in a shop, I knew Ravi wasn’t to be listened to, in 2011.

    Does John Lennox the mathematician think this adds up? John was never meant to be an “apologetist” because he has a gift as evangeliser and was also meant to spread love for mathematics.


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    God,

    GEFS? I looked this up. Global Ensemble Forecast System???


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    Nick Bulbeck: When I was the age they are the noo, I joined what turned out to be a cult. It was a cult in the same sense that Mars Hill was – that is, it was taken over very early on by an influential but divisive individual. But fae the outside it looked like a church that was going to Take_The_World_For_Jesus. I rejected traditional liturgical Christianity because it was all dead religion led by unsaved bishops who didn’t understand, like I did, that The_Bible_Is_The_Word_Of_God. And I wanted to fight, metaphorically at least, for a noble cause.

    Same here, including the low-end Autism. (A mixed bag in and of itself.)

    Main difference is the one that messed me up wasn’t a church per se but a “Christian Fellowship(TM)”. And it wasn’t fighting for a noble cause so much as trying to stay out of Eternal Hell (by way of Jack Chick’s Great White Throne scene) and not being Left Behind(TM – Any minute now… Any minute now… Any minute now…).

    Michael in UK: Nick, people like you and me have MORE empathy than is common, not less as hate speech maintains.

    Again, it’s a mixed bag. My empathy levels rock-slam between zero and 110%; after a while you wish you were a psychopath, totally unable to feel empathy or guilt.

    How many people whitewash the Zacharias family’s denomination of origin and think it wasn’t hellish of them to browbeat Ravi on his hospital bed at age 17?

    “Browbeat him in his hospital bed at 17?” I’m drawing a blank on that. Can you summarize or link to a reference?


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: after a while you wish you were a psychopath

    I’ve never identified with that sentiment and never shall. I did sometimes think a “volume control” would be a convenience but that’s my laid back middle of the road (waiting outside the lines) temperament shining through which makes me totally unable to “empathise” with you on that one.

    There was talk of help when I was 10 then it didn’t happen and I had some turbulent times in my low key way, the result of which is my difficulty in written work, a wide vocabulary notwithstanding.

    Another result is, becoming abashed at the need to challenge the complacency about the lack of explanation about relating. I know the world gets like this sometimes but I had also noticed how intrusive, spectacle-obsessed, and prayerless religion had got.

    I’m glad I feel, in place of those that don’t. In this world the gifts of some balance the lack of gifts of others, each in different areas. I’m glad to be a live wire. People turn round to me 10, 20 years later and say I was right (as to some insight). That doesn’t make me better, it just makes me me. (The real Jesus distributed gifts unvetoed and un-gatekept.) I’m glad they catch up.

    Headless Unicorn Guy: Browbeat him in his hospital bed at 17

    This is in his autobiography. Millions of “normal” christians would justify this on grounds of why he was in hospital but it DOESN’T matter why he was in hospital one whit.

    The fact is his family religion had driven him to despair which he had rebelled against, first by going in for cricket, then when “issues” arose over cricket, the incident. The deal finally was, he had to knuckle under to the old family cult (I think they were similar to C&MA).

    Just as you and I were browbeaten (but outside hospital) (but by sects new to us rather than the old family one like Ravi’s – and in my case the old one as well). The deal was he was going to become the new Billy Graham.

    Even cricket with “issues” has got to be a lot healthier than his dharma ridden “apologetism” enterprise with the unsound numeric gotchas distracting from Daniel’s prayer. (I was also dismayed by the bragging re. academic links given his low calibre of reasoning.)

    I placed the book back on the shop shelf in 2011. For years whenever the churches filled their video screens with New Wine (Zacharias empire associates) my eyes just glazed over. Have I got the energy to warn people?

    Did the teen aged Driscoll or Ruch get bullied similarly?


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    dee:
    God,

    GEFS? I looked this up. Global Ensemble Forecast System???

    Good Evening From Scotland, of course!

    All My love,
    God