“Making a comeback is one of the most difficult things to do with dignity.” Greg Lake
Time for a catch-up of sorts.
Brian and Bobbie Houston are back. The Sydney Morning Herald posted Houston’s comeback with the true believers.
I like how to writer described them as “disgraced and defiant.”
Brian and Bobbie Houstonare hatching plans for their comeback after returning to Sydney from a fire and brimstone tour of America’s megachurches.
Their homecoming is ahead of Brian Houston’s court appearance in December to defend criminal charges that he failed to report his paedophile father, the late evangelist Frank Houston, to police.
On November 9, the celebrity ministry couple has planned “An Evening with Bobbie and Brian,” billed as a time of connection, fellowship, preaching from Brian Houston, and prayer. The event will be held at Pioneer Theatre in Sydney—located about three miles from Hillsong’s flagship campus in the city’s Hills District, where the Houstons founded the global megachurch in 1983.
In a Tuesday social post, Brian Houston announced that “all the tickets were gone in less than 2 hours!” and a second, earlier time has been added. Noting that the event will be live-streamed online, the event summary concludes: “Great things start with small beginnings!”
It appears Houston has a “woman” problem as well. According to the Sydney Morning Herald:
In March, he announced his resignation as Global Senior Pastor following an internal investigation that found he breached the church’s moral code in his behaviour towards two women. His replacement, long-term friend Pastor Phil Dooley, said the alleged first incident involved a female church member who quit after making a complaint about an “inappropriate” text message from Houston 10 years ago.
“It was along the line of ‘if I was with you, I’d like to kiss and cuddle you’, words of that nature,” Pastor Dooley said. Houston reportedly paid the woman several months’ salary to compensate her.
The second alleged incident followed complaints from a woman who had attended Hillsong’s annual church conference at Homebush in 2019, who ended up having Houston in her hotel room afterwards for 40 minutes.
As Houston said in this Instagram: “We’re still here.”
Guess who else may still be here? Carl Lentz!
It looks like he is letting us know that he is very much alive and possibly plotting his comeback. Gotta love the edgy family look.
ARBCA: If you can’t win as a denomination, try politics and mess that up as well.
Just like the above-fallen celebrities, ARBCA has lost a bunch of churches and a bunch of people. They are barely hanging on. A year ago, I got a call about a former ARBCA leader running for office in the mountains of North Carolina. A year later, Todd posted this on Twitter.
Mark Driscoll seems to be returning to his roots: IIt’sall about male masculinity.
Money must be tight in Scottsdale, so it’s time to break out what worked at Mars Hill in 2010. He made the big bucks, then. Why not now?
The conga line of fallen pastors keeps getting longer and louder.
Oh me, oh my, American pie.
How we love and adore our namebrand celebrity leaders.
Wonder if fanfareless generic is actually healthier for community life in the Body of Christ.
What else are they going to do?!
As I’ve said before, all it takes in America to have a successful “ministry” is a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. With the gullibility level in the American church at an all-time high, any cool dudebro can pull it off. The pew loves bad-boys who launch unrepentant comebacks … the badder the better, they can identify with them without feeling convicted by their preaching.
And the beat goes on. Perhaps they will all three appear on stage at the same conference! That would be quite a show!
More than Jesus, evidently.
i can’t think of one male i know practicing either a faith other than christianity or no faith at all (whether grown man, young man, teen ager, or young boy) who isn’t responsible, honest, hard-working, diligent, and above all extremely kind.
my observation is that christian culture messes men up…
indulging the more base aspects of human nature by catering to men’s ego’s, both fragile ones and inflated ones —
alternating between giving them a pass for irresponsible behavior by blaming their circumstances and blaming other people,
and then inventing problems for the purpose of placing outsized blame on them for not measuring up to some fantasy alpha male ideal.
essentially, professional christian men exploiting men beneath them in order to make a name for themselves, build their careers, create their own brand, make money, and to win imaginary culture wars indulging in childhood warrior fantasies.
it’s like regressing to 4th grade, and making a business model as well as creating a new religion out of it (by co-opting the brand of an ancient one)
Max, you said it well: “…all it takes in America to have a successful ‘ministry’ is a touch of charisma,and a bag of gimmicks….the badder the better.” You have to wonder why believers are flocking to such sleazeballs. Where is the sorrow and repentance? Where is the sound biblical teaching that would lead the peons in the pews to focus on Jesus Christ instead of the celebrities?
Beware the mob that voted for Barabbas’ Get-out-of-Jail Free card while they voted to send Jesus to execution.
Apparently we are thus there, or at least adjacent.
The mob is still crying out for Barabbas. The authority and influence of Jesus are waning in the American church.
Swallowed up by apostasy in both pulpit and pew.
“Move over, Jesus,” loud and clear.
Long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they’d be happy for a while
— Don McLean 1971 —
Again, you’ve hit the bull’s eye.
Just like Katniss Everdeen would have.
a high compliment
my words were too plain-spoken, i think.
there are fabulous men everywhere, in christianity and outside of it — but in the last 20 years especially, i’ve seen too many such men immersed in church be broken down in their inner security and then built up again with a sort of arrogant machismo as long as they follow a set of rules.
underneath the overconfident veneer, i can see they are terrified of failure. they are terrified of me.
this is not the case with men i know outside christianity.
i marvel at how my silly religion has turned into an industry that runs on psychological dysfunction in its programs and what it produces in people.
it was absolutely not like this when i was growing up.
i don’t think i can be unscathing on this topic.
The Lord has rejected a bunch of Sauls and some of the people keep bringing them back to be their kings.
P.S. The fact that Carl Lentz posted a picture that sexualizes his own daughter (while he holds her hand) is very creepy to me.
Come and listen to a story ’bout a preacher named Jed.
Poor rural parson barely kept his family fed.
Then one day he went to Pastor’s School,
And when he returned, he was a Fundy tool.
(Gimmicks, that is. Proof texts. Lotsa rules.)
Well the next thing you know, the Mega Church looks great,
Buses everywhere throughout the Tri-State,
New Basement Bible College and Academy,
With just one man to rule so there is no anarchy.
(Dictatorship that is. Pastoral Authority. IFB heroes.)
Well, now its time to say goodbye to Jed and all his ilk.
Now that he is doing time his wife’s no more in silk.
You’re all invited to stop in on Thursday about noon
To commiserate with the former Fundy church tycoon.
(The Elm Street Embezzler. That’s what they call him now.
Property auction in two weeks. Ya’ll come bid now, ya hear!)
The one guy pastor dude at the top of the church hierarchy running things is not a New Testament (nor an OT) model.
OT had kings, neither God’s idea nor ideal. Generally, the kings were kind of messed up, some terribly, others a mixed bag at best.
NT leaders, disciples, even the men, operated as a group with never one person in charge.
The only one man deal was Jesus, and He happens to be God Himself.
To put the gift of pastoring at the pinnacle of the Body of Christ (move over, Jesus) with all other of the total of 18 gifts (1 Cor. 12, Rom. 12, Eph. 4) under the pastor or not even recognized at all as a part of the church, is idolatry. Like how the OT kings messed up Israel, the NT pastor-kings mess up the church.
Comon shack your body body, I know you can’t take it any longer….
I listened to a radio sermon last nite dont remember who. But this dear man talked about the calling of God on someones life that would make them actually fearful of the tremendous responsibility of pastoring…of representing GOD to a congregation. He mentioned that a true man of God will not always be popular as truth is often convicting and hard to hear. No mention of the desire for money or fame. Where are these kinds of pastors today? Who weep for their souls in the pews each Sunday…who shepherd them…who guard them from lies of twisted scripture…when i see the above clowns listed i want to spit.
The thought occurs that Pv 30:8-9 — let me be neither poor nor rich, so that I am tempted neither to steal nor to forget my God” — is relevant to “relationships” as well as “material possessions.”
But of the two, I suspect that “wealth” is more corrosive of conscience.
Mark D. wants to reach man masculinity, dignity and responsibility – how strange!
The same Mark that defined his masculinity by the SUV he drove. the same Mark who tried to destry the dignity of all the women in his church, and that of most of his underlings. The Mark who ran away from his responsibility for the many things that had gone wrong at his org (almost wrote “church” there by mistake) and avoided any accountability.
They faithfully serve the Body of Christ in obscurity. They don’t seek fame and fortune. They will be first not last.
They anguish over the condition of the church in America:
So does Jesus:
“… I intend to spit you out of my mouth! While you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and there is nothing that I need’, you have no eyes to see that you are wretched, pitiable, poverty-stricken, blind and naked …” (Revelation 3:16-18)
Brian Houston’s “ministry” would have never been on the radar if it weren’t for Hillsong music. He’s really not all that good of a preacher. Hillsong is/was the music not his message.
Back when Houston fired Lentz, I commented that Houston’s statements were Satanic. Remember how one of the apostles talked about the world, the flesh, and the devil? I’m thinking the world and flesh were Lentz’s job description— in order to attract the celebrity clients. The diabolical, OTOH— that’s Houston. I’ll find an example or two later.
From an article after Houston stepped down:
“ Vera added that a source told her Lentz was seen behaving in an “unpastorly manner, including smoking and drinking,” The Christian Post reports. Vera allegedly tried to bring her concerns to Hillsong’s General Manager in Sydney, but she was ignored, and the couple was “shut down.”
“There were double standards in this situation, and it was like this with Carl for sure,” Vera said.
In 2017, two former Hillsong volunteers also brought complaints about sexual misconduct by Lentz to church leaders. However, the volunteers said their allegations were deemed false, and they were dismissed from their positions at the church.”
Sigh…. Spell checker..
Supposed to the first line of Miami sound machines… Conga..
Just like (Alpha Male of Alpha Males) Andrew Tate, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!
(Does he also charge a fee like Andrew Tate?)
Technically, it IS OT:
“GIVE US A KING, LIKE ALL THE GOYIM!!!”
No it was not.
I think that men had more integrity back then and were not as prone to make everything about ‘me, me, and me’.
But the world has moved on (as Stephen King wrote) and not for the better.
Does this mean that I pine for the ‘good old days’?
No it does not.
I simply fish out the good stuff from both ages and $hit can the rest.
“For GOD Shall Send Them Strong Delusion, That They Should Believe a Lie”?
(Gotta use that quote for something else than a Rapture Ready smackdown…)
Okay. Here’s the opinion based on the first hand observations and experiences of a female, former SBCer:
Too many people just go for the entertainment…… coffee, “fellowship” meals….
To many men go to be praised, elevated, and given back the power and control they believe they deserve. Salvation via ear-tickling…….
Even “good” churches are not what was originally intended. There is little to no Bible study, no discussions, no debates, no disagreeing agreeably.…..
Even in all but one of the Baptist churches that I have attended where there is Bible study, women are shut down. We are allowed to sit and listen, but not allowed to participate…… unless we just have a “women’s” class, where we can talk amongst ourselves. I quit when I realized that women aren’t really part of the “church”. I’ve sat through a lot of sermons that did not apply to me because I was born a female and not a male.
I am old enough to remember when church wasn’t this way. We had discussions and disagreements in SS, and came out hugging, and shaking hands, and patting one another on the back. There were altars, and people knelt at those altars and cried and prayed…….and were prayed for…. Sometimes the church pastors cried, truly.
No. Most of the places that are called “churches” now are not true churches. They are secular country clubs, operating under false pretenses.
If this had been an episode of The Beverly Hillbillies, Granny would have marched right up on stage and slapped Jed a good one right in the gizzard with a plucked turkey. Then, Granny would have grabbed Jed by the ears and drug him all the way home, with him howling like a raspy-voiced bluetick coonhound every step of the way!
Sunday morning clubbing.
Dave A A,
Original statement and email on Hillsong website have gone the way of the dinosaurs but: A few diabolically satanic tidbits from Houston around the Lentz firing — 1st was fake sorrow and surprise when he’d been ignoring or squashing like bugs anyone who complained about Lentz 2d: “ leadership issues and breaches of trust, plus a recent revelation of moral failures,” The other stuff was meaningless- moral failures irrelevant/- recent revelation was the problem 3rd he invoked the no gossip rule while being vague and not specifying what moral failures 4th return to business as usual ASAP was requested “ Houston also assured readers that ministry would “proceed as usual,” and the leadership team was “praying that God would bring about an exciting new season for our church and this region.” (From CT article) and finally “ We need a solid foundation for a fresh start and new beginning,” Houston said in a tweet, adding, “The best is yet to come.”
Dave A A,
The Great God Entertainment sits on the throne in much of the American church.
“Many churches these days have become little more than poor theatres where fifth-rate producers peddle their shoddy wares with full approval of evangelical leaders who can even quote a holy text in defense of their delinquency. And hardly a man dares raise his voice against it.” (A.W. Tozer)
Nancy, you and I have lived long enough to lament the passing of a better day in the American church. Today’s pulpit performers build stages over those old prayer altars to give them more room to strut their stuff. And the pew nods with agreement … they would rather be entertained than to pray for the sick, intercede for lost souls, and repent of personal sin.
appropriate Scripture for this post
This verse (my opinion) speaks best to human frailty.
“A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.” (Archibald Brown, 19th century)
We are there, Archibald.
Begins to mind this verse:
Matthew 23:15 — “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”
Too often, the priority seems to be to inculcate someone with their lists of rules, works, etc. — often in order to put them in position to be a winsomely sheared sheep, or to be another brick in the Industrial Complex — rather than focus on what the true gospel message of reconciliation is to which individuals may respond.
Shouldn’t priorities be focused on giving people the opportunity to join the greater body of their own volition, not primarily in securing financial building blocks to a power structure?
I’m going to respectfully disagree. There’s no good old days. Most of what we see now was always there, there’s more light shining now. Harder to hide the rot.
The church of the past is responsible for the church of today. Again, there are no good old days. Christianity is bearing the sin of its past and now is being held accountable.
The ‘true believers’ are doubling down on authoritarianism. They want easy answers. They’re scared as their world changes. Clowns like Driscoll give them the toxic masculinity they desire, yearning for that golden age when (white) men ruled, there were only two genders and and exposure to ‘ethnics’ was Chinese takeout – not counting the kid your church ‘sponsored’ in some unpronounceable country in Africa or Asia.
The table is crowded now, no one is ‘going home ‘, they’re as American as you are (I’d say ‘you and me’ but I’m not American). No one is going back in the closet either.
Sorry, ‘the good ol’ church ‘ has left building (if it ever did really exist)
“Truly, if our hope in Christ were limited to this life only we should, of all mankind be the most to be pitied!” (1 Corinthians 15:19)
Agree with the respectfully disagree.
Currently, news coverage and media expose much.
Example: Houston Chronicle’s “Abuse of Faith” mugshots with database: most of those old buzzards have been using church as a hunting ground for decades +++.
There’s a reason that #MeToo was a turning point, then #ChurchToo came along. Nothing was new except EXPOSURE.
In other news you might of missed, the husband of Nellie Ward and former 2nd Chapter of Acts Band manager and currently Christian film producer has been arrested on child molestation charges: https://ministrywatch.com/christian-filmmaker-arrested-following-investigation-of-child-sex-predators/
I love this statement. It is the reality of how deep the corruption runs in what calls itself Christian.
I could not have said it better myself. Too bad that those even here who still go to a church all have bowed to this system. To not bow is to not attend what we call “Church.” There is no way to say this without putting a big target on yourself.
Thank you for voicing this observation. The sexualization of his children really weirded me out, too.
Respectfully Jack, I never said that there were the good old days as a whole to be wholly emulated.
I only said that it had its good points too, just like our present day culture has its good points.
In the photos, he poses as the man (alpha, macho, triumphant, in control and glory) while his wife and kids fawn over him.
Yet, isn’t he the guy who was having affairs?
The posturing belies reality.
“I know what humanity is! It’s one-half power, and the will to use it; the other half, cattle to be led,” German Colonel Kappler to Monsignor Hugh O’Flaherty, in the WW2 true story of “The Scarlet and the Black”: the Colonel’s evil frame of reality.
Jesus came so we don’t have to live as either of those halves.
I get that. You said that you don’t pine for the good old days.
But lots of men still have integrity and things aren’t worse than before.
Different, sure, but really it’s the same as it’s ever been
Christianity has good points. Lots of them. And most Christians are good people at heart.
When it comes to some streams of Christianity the band Sloan says it best in their 1994 song “Coax Me”
“It’s not the band I hate, it’s their fans”
Ok… not sure I quite get the context.
I’m guessing it’s a “it’s bigger than all of us” existential statement.
I scarfed down a bag of potato chips tonight, we’re working our way through the Zucker-Abrams-Zucker movies, tonight was “Airplane”.
Teaching the kids the classics.
Does that make us pitiable?
Loved your comment, Ava. 🙂
For me it is the way they have to be like a subordinate pop group to the front man, with him six times their size in that bad shirt, far worse than the girl’s: she is probably a good rebel not being protected. The son safe from both parents. Their mother looks like she’s dead already.
I’ve observed children like this in my viewing / browsing, they already know life should be better but momentarily it’s still slightly “cool” perhaps. One day they will make a bolt for it and we must pray it will go good for them with all the safety nets disappearing.
The purpose is to market the “grace” that has made them so. The sole real meaning of “grace” is that you too can be a public media guinea pig, trapped in the glass house.
He is the one that put this message out here, that’s why he is getting comments.
No, but it would make those with pretensions (which you’re not) pitiable.
cower far below
Thank you for introducing me to Sloan!
Experiencing both the then and the now so intensely in my face (Husserl, W Hopp, Nussbaum, Donna Williams), I work hard to do this which I why I learned to revive a childhood instinct to join the dots. The now and the then are both the same mixture of bad and good, but the extra danger of late is the amount of power (Nietzsche opposing William James) that seizes money and media (McLuhan).
We share a Collins taste! I’m trying to grow a backbone like Gregory the Overlander, who at the end of book 5 realises the overland is as dicey as the underland after all.
You know, in reality there is no one to blame for these shysters behind the pulpit except the nuts in front of it.
Where the shysters are: do not attend. Do not donate. Go elsewhere or better yet take your Bible to the back deck and hang out with Jesus one on one.
We can point out the flaws of “them” (the shysters) all we want but unless we totally ignore them, walk away, stop the money flow, the problem is not “them” it is “us.”
Standartenfuehrer Kappler prefigures Lord Voldemort’s “There is no Right, there is no Wrong, there is only POWER. And those who are Too Weak to have it.”
(Standartenfuehrer, not Colonel. The SS were very fussy about their Proper SS Rank Titles.)
So what else is new?
These days it’s News when a ManaGAWD ISN’T a Pedo Predator.
Then is the Way to Lone Ranger it all the way like A.W>Pink?
All All Alone with your Prophetic Dreams and Visions?
“I know what humanity is! It’s one-half power, and the will to use it; the other half, cattle to be led,”
And always make sure YOU are in the first half.
P.S. And what’s an easier answer than a Four Spiritual Laws or Romans Road tract? With Late Great Planet Earth/Left Behind‘s Escape Hatch?
In the words of the Prophet Pink Floyd:
Didn’t a Rabbi from Nazareth say something about Deep Dark Secrets being Shouted from the Rooftops?
(Break out the bullhorn…)
Always great to use it for something else than a putdown for those who doubt the End Times Choreography of Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind.
I did the same thing with my daughter when she was in her early teens. The cult classic “The Rocky Horror Picture Show” was THE one that really stuck.
She had seen a couple of then-recent movies with Tim Curry and had become a Curry fan. She shook her head and swore repeatedly that that could NOT possibly be Tim Curry in that movie …….. until the end when the credits rolled. That movie is now one of her all time favorites.
If either of us is pitiable, it must be me. Maybe a little crazy, too.
I agree with this thought.
1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Regarding the article. Yes, I’ve read and have seen it referenced several times. Glad it’s out there. One would think if the great wealthy are interested in science that they would be interested in brain health and greatly desire it. Some seem to be interested mostly in marketing “science,” and not for their claimed philanthropic purposes, IMO.
Did you yell “VIRGIN! VIRGIN!” and pelt her with rice?
(During the heyday of Rocky Horror in the Late Seventies/Early Eighties, that was the standard way to initiate first-time viewers at the Midnight Screenings.)
I’ve seen way too much DARK!!! and EDGY!!! over the past several years.
When EVERYTHING’s DARK!!!!! and EDGY!!!!! there is NO more Dark & Edgy; it’s not only What’s Normal, but Old-Fashioned.
I would like to think that there have been better days in the American church, even though I believe there have also been horrific crimes done by bad players and those complicit in the church. I’m thinking of the abolitionists, as a good example. Also, when I was young I participated in visiting and singing and being a part of taking communion to sick and elderly church members. The denomination I experienced when I was young had some legalistic aspects to it that came up to haunt me later, but overall this small church seemed caring and authentic as much as they could be for the time, I think.
IMO, technology brings more opportunity for exposing crimes and bad players and that is good. But, it is intrusive in a big bad way for our children and youth. And the technology brings more opportunity for the wealthy powerful bad players to have more reach than they’ve ever had, IMO, right down to cellular health. I’m glad for the exposure of bad players, but I grieve for loss of quiet healthy space and human dignity, especially for the young and young adults.
No doubt about it. As long as there has been church, there have been bad players in it … 2,000 years of the good, the bad, and the ugly! However, in the midst of it all, some folks have genuinely experienced better days with better people in better churches. I have been doing church for 70+ years … I’ve seen it all! But in the sea of counterfeit, I was fortunate to get an occasional glimpse of the genuine … and, for me, those were better days than I now experience when I venture into church. My personal experience is not open to the argument of others; I truly have known better days in the American church (at least the corner of it I found myself in at the time). Those were good times of fellowship with like-minded believers who loved and served Christ, with pastors more concerned about pleasing God than fleecing/abusing the sheep. I now grieve over the condition of the church and pray for a revival among God’s people and spiritual awakening in the nation.
Same for me, in our rural area……….
Yeah, pastors pleasing God ……. and being a caring servant not only to the congregation, but to people in the surrounding area……… usually bi-vocational out of financial necessity.
The deacons (and most church members) were that way, too.
But, the BF&M 2000, purity culture, and new Calvinist leagalism….(books by Piper, McArthur, etc,) ……… slowly crept in, bit by bit, and things changed. (Rural Kentucky-we’re about 10 years behind)
Took me a few years to realize and process what was happening and why, but I finally reached the point where I just couldn’t stomach it anymore.
There are still some good people in our churches but, at least for me, the bad does more damage than the good can heal.
Beyond that, they all look sleazy in that photo. Is that the image they want to project…… to glorify God???
In my humble (but accurate) opinion, bi-vocational pastors serving small churches in rural America are the closest thing to real-deal servants of God that you will find anywhere.
does not the evangelical world DOWNPLAY focusing on Jesus Christ’s words in sacred Scripture? As in the controversy over ‘the red letter bibles’?
For them which need to manipulate Scripture to their own agendas,
it is easier for them to quote the words of the apostles to that man-made end rather than to try to fit Our Lord’s words into any agenda other than what He intended. His ‘words’ are His own. We cannot ‘paraphrase’ His words by saying ‘in other words, He meant ‘this’ BECAUSE with Our Lord, there ARE NO ‘OTHER WORDS’. . .
Yes, Mr. Lentz is targeting his market-share of sleazy folks that desire pastors who act and live no differently than him … it makes them feel better about themselves. If you look sleazy, they will come.
Yes, the pastors and leaders in the small church I grew up in were bi-vocational. None of them wrote and published a book that I know of.
meant to say “who act and live no differently than they do”
Its the genderflip version of what Screwtape Letters called “The Infernal Venus”.
Where the darkness and sleaze IS the whole point.
The only Spiritual Awakening I’m seeing is The Church Militant of QAnon, filled with Passionate Intensity.
I don’t care for the photo, but it just looks trendy and city-like to me. However, I prefer it to any number of photos of the JimBob clan—with every last detail calculated to show Quiverfull family values.
“despite being informed twice that the age of the girl was 14, he agreed to pay $170 for sex, the affidavit states.”
Greisen wrote the detective to confirm: “K, I can be there in 20 min?”
Steve Greisen is in his 60’s, 70’s? Paying to violate a 14yr old? Pathetically evil Christian man.
Christian musician, business manager, film producer?
Another Christian of the Epstein ilk. Sick. Evil. Vile.
Colorado Springs law enforcement was working a sting to net the child predators in their community for a better community. Caught a prominent Christian man.
If these are the Christians, wouldn’t want to see what the pagans are doing.
Unfortunately, regarding back in the church “good ole days”:
@Tj_frock to Christa Brown:
“I didn’t realize the similarities in our lives. I was sexually abused by an SBC deacon in the 1950s. He used the church to prop himself up as morally superior, causing extreme feelings of devastation & grief.”
We also recognize Christa Brown’s story which goes way back, along with the many, many others who interact with her, as they share their experiences from the good ole days, decades, half-century ago.
The “good ole days of church” story is a wide swathe.
CSA survivors don’t paint a wide swathe. They never deny the personal good ole church days of others.
However, they would like their predators, who were secretly fully evil-engaged during the church good ole days, to be held accountable.
Evil was happening, covert, unbeknownst to some (many?) during the good ole days.
For those violated, it was not good. For the unaware, what was happening beneath was not evident, while joyfully celebrating church as wonderful for all. It was not wonderful for all. It was wonderful for some.
Guessing that pastors from the good ole days know alot more about the underbelly than they will ever admit.
Who did Dear Abby say to tell about the perverts and predators? Your pastor, priest, or rabbi. Little did Dear Abby know, some pastors, priests, and rabbis were/are predators, too (or their BFFs).
The good ole days were times of presumed innocence. How blessedly naive. The timelines and maps of when and where evidence the reality, the whole picture.
A broad brush of either good or evil is unjust and inaccurate.
Survivors are not wielding a broad brush of generalizations to cover up the good. They are fighting to have their voices heard, at all… to have even a small place at the table with their experiences included. Sorry it disfigures the pristine picture of all was wonderful for the good ole days folks. It wasn’t all good but no one wants to intentionally rain on the celebratory nostalgia of the good ole days folks.
There were/are good ole days of church for some people, some places, some times. Your story is all good? Good for you. Now on with addressing the other stories.
It’s helpful to compare notes and anecdotes here at TWW.
In the end, deciding the Overlookables and the Dealbreakers is essential in all relationships and community.
We’ve left churches that our friends could tolerate but we drew a line.
It’s a big pestiferous deal.
A writer could assemble the stories, “Why Church Didn’t Work Out the Way We Thought,” kinda like the book about relationships: “Why Does He Do That?” by Lindy Bancroft. Overlookables and Dealbreakers.
Lundy Bancroft. (Earlier error courtesy of autocorrect.)
I have stopped assuming that my fellow Christians are morally better than non-Christians, or that non-Christians spend their time doing awful things. A lot of non-religious people wonder why we Christians need a special book to tell us to feed the hungry.
I love my faith and Scripture. Still, too many churches commit abuse, and consequently fail to practice the basics. (Maybe the order is backwards.)
No, just some days. During my 70+ years of doing church in America, I spent a good deal of time fighting devils of one sort or another (some of them in the pulpit!). But lest we get caught up in the past, we must remember the present is upon us and it’s apparent that we have a spiritual leadership crisis in America that has released the beast upon God’s children.
Thanks for fighting the good fight, Max, back then, now, and in the days to come. God love and bless you and yours.
“Let us not grow tired of doing good, for, unless we throw in our hand, the ultimate harvest is assured. Let us then do good to all men as opportunity offers, especially to those who belong to the Christian household.” (Galatians 6:9 Phillips)
JP II made the sexual revolution go bad, more than anybody (ground laid by Montini). Aided by his copycat the exceptionalist Falwell Senior who was very influential in the UK.
At least there are others we can hang with. 13 years ago, I had no idea if I was “the only one.” I’m not and that is a relief.
Time is… fleeting…
Madness.. takes its toll…
You’ll find pagans who are moral men and women.
Gimme’ a moral pagan than a loud-mouthed christian jerk any day.
Pagans who are moral men . . . ‘the Good Samaritan’ 🙂
This was a Heather Griesen’s response to the article about Steve Griesen being arrested on Facebook With the same last mane I am sure they are related.
“ Really? You feel a need to be a gossip spreader. As believers, we should have the grace and mercy to allow the justice system to prove their case against our brothers and sisters before spreading salacious gossip to the world. I’m disappointed in this ministry. We are living in evil times where Christians are under constant attack just for loving and serving God. We don’t need to be attacked from within.”
Playing the old gossip card. Sad
There are more than we know … they just need better leadership to get them back on course for the Kingdom of God in the here and now. In the meantime, we may have to dig our own spiritual well.
AND the PERSECUTION!!!!! Card:
“We are living in evil times where Christians are under constant attack just for loving and serving God.”
Headless Unicorn Guy,
“If you dare mention the alleged crimes of the guy on trial, you are not a Christian!”
And now it’s Matt Chandler. Back in just a couple weeks from a relationship with a woman who is not his wife. What would Paul; the Apostle say” “one woman man?”
The Matt Chandler things is bizarre. He didn’tt do anything but he had to step down? Yeah, right.
Chandler and his NeoCal dudebros have taken the SBC on one bizarre ride.
Because the charges are Fake, brought by SATAN and his Satanist Minions of The Cabal to PERSECUTE the Mighty ManaGAWD! So Godly SATAN himself hath singled him out for PERSECUTION!
I’m a survivor of The Satanic Panic; I know the drill. It’s practically canned.
Well, if he didn’t do anything, it was a monstrosity of an over-reaction. What would be the reason for it? Publicity of his purity? Who knows. The only thing that makes sense is that it was a big deal, and they have hidden the real issue from the public eye to maintain his money making machine.
You’re right, that’s horrible, while the rest seek safety from him. She’s his speshul pet.
Court Favorite of the Harem.
“Evil is the side most obsessed with Purity.”
— Comment at Internet Monk some years ago