“I was in a race to see if I would die from the outside in or the inside out.” ― Shout
According to Moore, it comes down to “It’s your fault” if you think that Jerry Falwell Jr was a Christian. You see, you have no reason to believe that because “He told you so.” He was pretending he was a Christian even though he was the head of the largest Christian university on the planet. He supported the rules for students like “No sex before marriage, no short skirts, no drinking alcohol, etc.” The fact that these rules existed was one giant con, and all of us should have known that. I’m not buying it. Many of us knew something was wrong with Falwell but couldn’t put our finger on it.
This past week, two magazine articles are causing an uproar. Vanity Fair published: INSIDE JERRY FALWELL JR.’S UNLIKELY RISE AND PRECIPITOUS FALL AT LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Then Russell Moore, writing for Christianity Today, opined: Jerry Falwell Jr. Isn’t a Hypocrite.
Then, for those who want to learn the juicy details the Daily Mail posted: I had a big Canon camera’: Becki Falwell, the wife of disgraced ex-Liberty University leader, tells Vanity Fair how she made SEX TAPES with pool boy lover, 21, who ‘pressured her into romp in her daughter’s bed’
Falwell Jr makes a big deal out of the fact that he wasn’t a Christian like “others.” He even alleged that his dear old dad, Falwell Sr, was oppressed by his wife, Macel, and that’s why he worked so hard…to get away from her. From Vanity Fair:
Looking back, Jerry said that his father’s peripatetic lifestyle provided a reprieve from an oppressive marriage. “My dad wanted to travel the world as an escape,” Jerry said. He recalled that his mother’s provincial worldview grated on his father. “She wanted to live a small-town preacher’s life. She didn’t let him mess around,” Jerry said. Divorce was out of the question. According to Jerry, his dad found ways to take the edge off at home, even though Marcel never allowed alcohol in the house. “Sometimes, he would drink a whole bottle of Nyquil. He called it Baptist wine,” he remembered. Jerry grew up to learn that he, too, could have a private life that didn’t align with his public persona.
Yet, for all of his posturing, Jerry Jr. claims he became a “real” Christian. A fact that I think some, like Moore, overlooked in their analysis. From Vanity Fair:
It was during a course on apologetics—the study of defending Christianity to nonbelievers—that Jerry said he was persuaded it was “rational” to believe Jesus was literally the son of God and the miracles of the Bible happened. “I became a true Christian in college,” Jerry told me. Newly confident in his faith, Jerry decided believing in Christ didn’t mean he had to follow the evangelical rules. After all, Jesus was a rule breaker too. “Organized religion says you have to earn your way to heaven. What Jesus said was, ‘You just have to believe,’ ” he said. For graduate school, Jerry was determined to escape the fundamentalist fishbowl of Lynchburg. In the fall of 1984, he entered the University of Virginia Law School, 70 miles north in Charlottesville. It was Jerry’s first time living away from home, and he could freely lead an outwardly secular life: He never bothered to join a church. “If religion came up, he’d say, ‘That’s not me. That’s my dad,’ ”
Jerry Jr. (henceforth JJ) was a businessman who knew how to make money for institutions. When his dad told him that Liberty was in the hole financially. JJ came up with a plan. LU would offer a vast amount of online courses. From Christianity Today:
Indeed it was. And later, when the university his father built was in financial trouble, Falwell Jr. was tapped to help lead them out of it. In the article, he discloses how his father affirmed and admired his business savvy. And he was successful at that.
As chancellor, Falwell Jr. built Liberty’s enrollment, campus, and financial reserves into a powerhouse. Even to the end while someone else was preaching, he was right there, selling.
The supposed Trump connection
Russell Moore offers a unique interpretation of how we were supposed to know that JJ was not a hypocrite. He supported Donald Trump. In some respects, Moore says Falwell mimicked the actions of Trump. From Christianity Today:
To him, Trump was moral because he had created jobs and made payroll. Unlike some other Trump evangelical supporters—with whom I disagreed but whose positions were reasonable and understandable—Falwell didn’t try to measure the business leader’s intemperate and crass attacks on people with some other objective, like judicial nominations, for instance. Instead, he often mimicked such attacks, right along with the cartoonish and bullying tone of them.
Does this mean he was not a “real” Christian? This is a dangerous road to go down, and Moore knows it. He attempts to appease his readers that he knows some “real” Christian who supported Trump.
Here is where I disagree with Moore. He pictures JJ as a non-religious man “trapped” into leading his family’s business. JJ attended the University of Virginia for his law degree. There he was seen as just a regular guy who would grab some brewskis with the bros. Yet somehow, this well-educated man who was given, in his own words, a lot of latitude for his behavior was trapped and forced into the family business. I have trouble with this analysis. From Christianity Today:
Is it possible that Jerry Falwell Jr. could never see himself as anything but someone who had to succeed, who was trapped into leading a family business bound up in a religion he didn’t really embrace? I don’t know.
Does substance abuse, along with his wife’s long-time affair with a pool boy, play a role in JJ’s spectacular fall?
Could this be an alternative explanation? Here is one post of JJ falling down drunk amidst other complaints that he came to school drunk. From the Daily Mail Report: Jerry Falwell injured in fall while drinking according to a 911 call
Falwell’s wife, Becki Falwell, called 911 on August 30 to report her husband had fallen down the stairs and was bleeding. According to the report, Becki Falwell told the dispatcher her husband had been drinking but would not say if he had been “drinking heavily.
The Wall Street Journal reported last week that Liberty officials had heard complaints about Jerry Falwell Jr. coming to campus while drunk. Falwell denied those claims.
Faculty and students at Liberty, one of the country’s largest Christian universities, are barred from drinking. Staff are allowed to drink but could be fired if they show up to work under the influence.
“Reporting to work under the influence of any illegal substance or alcohol will be subject to discipline, up to and including termination,” states the school’s employee handbook.
Becki Fallwell admits to having had a years-long affair with a pool boy. Becki was sad that she never went to college and had a real college experience. She was excited when young boys would “notice her.” Then the pool boy flirted with her. But, was it her that Granda, the pool boy, was interested in? JJ eventually invested in some sort of hostel in Miami with this guy. He also became aware of this reliationship with Becki. According to the Daily Mail:‘I had a big Canon camera’: Becki Falwell, the wife of disgraced ex-Liberty University leader, tells Vanity Fair how she made SEX TAPES with pool boy lover, 21, who ‘pressured her into romp in her daughter’s bed’
He said the couple had chosen to make the affair public as he alleged the pool boy had been blackmailing them for years about keeping the secret.
‘Jerry would wake up every morning and worry that my affair would come out. Both of us did,’ Becki recalled. ‘It’s just horrible to have that over you.’
The Falwells met Granda at the Fontainebleau hotel pool in Miami Beach in March 2012 and were reportedly so impressed with him that they invested in a gay hostel that he and their son ran as managers.
Becky found the years with just one pool boy a bore, and she reportedly had oral sex with her son’s friend from the LU band. From Politico:‘She was the aggressor’: Former Liberty student alleges sexual encounter with Becki Falwell
A former Liberty University student says Becki Falwell, the wife of the university’s then-President Jerry Falwell Jr., jumped into bed with him and performed oral sex on him. At the same time, he stayed over at the Falwell home after a band practice with her eldest son in 2008.
The student was 22 at the time of the encounter, near the start of Liberty’s fall semester. He said she initiated the act, and he went along with it. But despite his rejection of further advances, he said, Falwell continued pursuing him, offering him gifts and engaging in banter through Facebook messages.
Here are some things I found pertinent.
- JJ believed that he was a true Christian.
- I don’t believe that JJ was trapped and forced into the family business.
- If he was a true Christian, we shouldn’t feel too sorry that he “had to” run Liberty and abide by those rules. Also, wasn’t he in charge of the rules?
- JJ made lots and lots of money in his position. Again, I find it hard to feel sorry for him.
- In 2020, I mentioned that he might have a problem with alcohol.
- He tolerated his wife’s affair with the pool boy for an incredibly long time. What was in it for him?
- His wife reportedly had sex with an LU student. Due to her position, I could see a possible lawsuit.
- Also, he has denied that he watched his wife having sex with Granda. But Granda is adamant on this point.
- Was this some sort of co-dependent relationship?
- JJ allegedly had some racy pictures (? of his wife) that he might have passed around.
- I believe many people knew of these problems and kept their mouths shut.
- Even his board of trustees stayed quiet. Guess the money flow was just too good.
- Those in leadership watched as two people circled the drain for years and should be ashamed of themselves.
- Then again, JJ is surrounded by the good old boy Baptist network. He will reappear after they clean him up. After all, he makes money.
- JJ never attempted to give a mea culpa. Even a nonChristian would do so, given all that has happened.
This is a man who had serious problems, way beyond Moore’s concern that Falwell liked Trump. There are a gazillion Trump supporters, just like an equal gazillion on the other side. Not all of them have an alcohol problem or have a spouse-sleeping-with-students-problem. I find it hard to believe that no one in the school leadership or the trustees knew about this problem. Shame on them. This man and his wife need help ASAP and should be kept far away from Liberty University.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I think I still have covid brain; I simply could not follow Moore’s ramble through the weeds. It seems to me that he’s saying Junior is not a hypocrite because he was actually a businessman whose moral compass was creating jobs and such (Moore’s words), and NOT a Christian with a moral compass of Jesus (my words, not Moore’s). But then Moore also shys away from saying that Junior wasn’t a christian. So, which is it?
Moore ends with the following: “I do know that when a man tells us he was in such a desperate, self-destructive place for so long, we owe it to him—and to ourselves—to ask, ‘Were we so deceived that we couldn’t help him? Or did we turn our attention away as long as he was succeeding?’ If the latter, the problem isn’t Jerry Falwell Jr.’s hypocrisy. The problem is us.”
To which I say, why can’t it be both? Junior clearly has problems (including hypocrisy. Sorry, saying “I’m not religious” while leading a Christian university is… what? Gaslighting? Bonkers, at the least) that only he can actually decide to do something about. But at the same time “we” (if by “we” Moore means the Evangelical Industrial Complex) have enabled Junior to not solve his problems. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
What a gross,deceptive, mess all around.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I think in this case it would pretty safe to say that the two are dependent on one another. Money and power was corrupting those around it and causing folks to turn a blind eye.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
‘Xcuse me. Just who is this guy’s “we”?
The brohood of BFF bro-boys perhaps owe JJ, their very own bad boy, something… like the benefit of the doubt. ‘Cuz that’s what the evangeo boys do with their bad boys. They circle the wagons.
For the rest of us? We may be Christians but never in THAT camp. Never drinking the Koolaide.
One thing for sure: The bad boys et al LOVE money: FACT. Thinking of JF Senior & the PTL debacle.
And CT seems to be equally aligned with the evangeo, bad boy, LOVE money, cult crowd.
Sarcasm: Oh, how boring to work a 9-5 simple wages, simple lifesyle, simple love of God and neighbor life, that’s just not good enough for the chollywoods. No pool boys, no yachts, no big money.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
If Rev Moore is speaking (with forked tongue) in the persona of the trustees, yes. No-one else.
BTW it is amusing that JJ escapes the fundamentalist Manifest Destiny Schofieldist atmosphere by resorting to the even more fundamentalist antinomianism! 😉
And the primmer students will love the racy Manifest Destiny Schofieldist image of their school. This is why designer scandals are win-win-win.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
My first question is, “What is Russell Moore’s payoff in this situation?”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I’m disrespecting the young man the wife preyed upon. What was she at all along? The reflected Manifest Destiny refulgence?
If you hang around Manifest Destiny Schofieldism and react as programmed to “apologetism” you don’t get a mental foundation for quality of belief. This is similar to the unlevel cricket pitch rev. Ravi got his start on.
I’ve been shredding Falwell Sr for years, are they pretending to copy me for convenience?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
My mom made me visit Liberty for a weekend in the 80’s because I was having too much fun at the college I was attending. One weekend at that jail college frightened me so bad that I made the deans list at my college the next semester.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The good old boy Baptist network.
Was there an independent fundamentalist or Southern Baptist church in Hazzard? I don’t think religion played a significant part in “The Dukes of Hazzard”.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Moore is trying to absolve Evangelicalism for any sort of real responsibility for Jerry Jr. in this article. He can’t do that. Jerry Falwell Jr. is a creation and creature of the Evangelical Industrial Complex. He’s yours, folks, the secular world does not want him.
Oh, and I’m just going to mention, going to law school messes your brain up. (points to self as example) You think very differently afterwards. That, on top of the fundamentalism he was raised in…yeah, things were always going to be messy in some way or another with Jerry Jr.
I don’t recall watching the “Dukes of Hazzard” very much as a late teen into my early 20s. I certainly don’t remember there being any discussion of religion. I suspect there was far more admiration of the sartorial style of Daisy Duke than there was of religion. Which reminds me of a saying of my dad (old Eastern Oklahoma boy) about how religion there is “a mile wide and an inch deep.” Something to think about.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“Jerry decided believing in Christ didn’t mean he had to follow the evangelical rules. After all, Jesus was a rule breaker too.”
= classical Antinomianism
There’s been an outbreak of that in evangelicalism … where a “Christian” believes they have been released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. Which, of course, is not Grace at all. You can’t hide behind “Jesus was a rule breaker” on Judgment Day.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“I believe many people knew of these problems and kept their mouths shut. Even his board of trustees stayed quiet. Guess the money flow was just too good.”
Herein lies a huge problem in many prominent “ministries.” When they get too big to fail, the Board fails. Leaders look for yes-men that will back them up to the bitter end. There is no accountability in such systems … but God.
“Choose from among you those with good reputations [of godly character and moral integrity], full of the Spirit and of wisdom, to put in charge of this task” (Acts 6:3) … is a formula that ain’t working in many corners of the American church, denominations, and “Christian” organizations.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“JJ is surrounded by the good old boy Baptist network”
Which is being replaced by a younger old boy New Calvinist network throughout the American church. Same modus operandi of greed and deception, just a younger bunch trained to work the church to their benefit.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It’s the typical blame my parents bit to escape accountability. I attended L.U. Back in 1995-1997 and the people who raised me and sent me to Liberty were close friends with Jerry sr. I don’t know any of his background regarding anything sketchy from personal experience but I can say he provided a scholarship through the people who raised me and helped others from the same camp attend. I have had dinner in his home. All this to say is Fallwel sr we’re very down to earth couple. I attended Thomas road and served in the childrens ministry. Everything I experienced regarding Mr Falwell was positive. I find it interesting his son seems to blame his parents for his sick problems. I’m sure somewhere in raising him they definitely did or didn’t do something but at the end of the day he and his wife are really sick individuals. I would be highly upset if this woman Becky took advantage of my 22 year old son and used him as some type of sex toy. It’s really disgusting and for her to use another human being like that with her position is nothing but low life and low class. Anyway I’m disgusted with their making excuses for their perverted behavior.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Oh, that’s an easy call for me. Junior bears no evidence of being a Christian.
“You can tell them by their fruit. Do you pick a bunch of grapes from a thorn-bush or figs from a clump of thistles? Every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is incapable of producing bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The tree that fails to produce good fruit is cut down and burnt. So you may know men by their fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-20 Phillips)
Junior may have done a few good things here and there. But, good fruit that identifies him as Christian? Nah.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I am so disgusted by the floating, burning dumpster fire that is “jr” and LU, I am basically speechless. This whole situation, and the reaction of the Christian Industrial Complex is SPRITUAL ABUSE on a national scale…..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Heck, the Christian Industrial Complex itself is spiritual abuse on a national scale! This mess has reached Biblical proportion and stinks to high heaven! We haven’t reached the tipping point yet, so hold on!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“For every person will have to bear his own burden of faults and shortcomings for which he alone is responsible.” (Galatians 6:5 AMP)
“Every man must shoulder his own pack.” (Galatians 6:5 Phillips)
Jerry Jr. is responsible for his own sins … not his father’s … not his mother’s … not his wife’s. He, alone, will stand before God to give an account for the mess he made of his life at LU and elsewhere. Moore and others need to be shouting at him “Repent … or else” (Jesus is).
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
is it POSSIBLE that ‘classical antinomianism’ is the REASON that so many in the evangelical faith community have come to embrace as ‘annointed’ the person of Donald Trump?
If it IS possible, then what are the roots of the doctrine of ‘classical antinomianism’ that have produced such rotten fruit?
‘Grace’, as orthodox Christianity (catholic and eastern Orthodox) is seen as freely given to the humble of the Earth.
Is ‘I’m saved’ as a teaching that is ‘irrevocable’ also seen as reason to openly sin against God
OR
is there not still some recognition that wounded people can, in their willingness to involve others in evil, actually fail to “… fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith.”
What is the REASON I have heart that some evangelical people no longer feel the need to pray the Lord’s Prayer, with the words ‘and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil’?
Is ‘anti-nomianism’ a ‘get out of hell free card’ for those who embrace it? That they are ‘free’ on the last day from being judged for their willingness to do evil and to lead others to do evil???
Under what ‘theology’ did ‘anti-nomianism’ take hold in the evangelical faith community?
?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I agree with Wild Honey. I had a difficult time working through the CT op-ed. Actually, I didn’t finish it. In my opinion, the column was little more than a wordy attempt to distance JJ from “real Christians.” Which, unfortunately, Moore seems to identify with Christians who opposed DJT.
Perhaps this is the correct diagnosis; Moore is writing the long-winded equivalent to the exploding firework factory scene in The Naked Gun (now a famous meme): https://youtu.be/aKnX5wci404
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
yup..
10 years ago, if Dee had posted a “prediction” of all that has come about with “Jr”, LU, and it’s association with Trump, we would have thought she was extremely cynical, or WORSE..
Truth is stranger than fiction..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It’s a little reminiscent of the “royal we,” isn’t it 😀
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Ava Aaronson,
I am not part of the “we”… I could not teach (more would they let me) at a school that pushes young earth creationism ..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
‘nor” not “more”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
This is why we all need a Savior.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
We actually attended at the same time. I also had a scholarship. In fact, I never applied to LU before deciding to go. I was offered a scholarship completely out of the blue (from my perspective). I have family friends that I think had something to do with that, but I’ve never gotten any confirmation of it.
Senior was also always very nice to me. He stopped to talk to me every time he saw me, and he never forgot my name or anything I had mentioned to him before. The rules were pretty oppressive, but I had a wonderful group of friends and roommates at LU. I used to follow the rules to the letter, but flaunted the spirit of them a bit with my pixie cut and Easter dresses with combat boots.
When Senior announced JJ would take his place, I knew it would be a disaster. He was a party boy from way back when and despite being a very smart guy, he was exactly the same person we see him as now. Nepotism was always a bad problem at Liberty, and favoritism was shown often to people related to other celebrity Christians. Most of the time, these connections were a failure either because of entitlement or disinterest in their family’s legacy.
However, I don’t totally disbelieve all of JJ’s story, as I had a memorable encounter with Masel one Sunday afternoon. We went out to lunch and ended up at the table next to Senior, Masel, Junior, and Becky. Senior waved at us when they were seated, but quickly became quiet and withdrawn. Masel sent back everything several times and loudly complained about the food, the service, and the fact that there were “those other people” seated too close to them (us). JJ tried to reason with her. Becky seemed utterly disinterested and I imagine if smartphones were a thing back then, she would have been on one the whole time. When they left, Masel loudly announced they would not be leaving a tip. Senior came back and left a $20 bill as JJ ushered her out the door to keep her from noticing. Senior wouldn’t look us or anyone in the eye. The poor server probably deserved more than $20 and he knew it.
Sadly, this is just one of many bad encounters with Christian “celebrities”. I think Christian belief and Christian culture are pretty far apart.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Ishy, goad to hear from you again!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Your story of the “encounter” at Sunday lunch does not surprise me at all… I have experienced similar situations..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
No yacht, no pool boys, no drunken afterglow stumbling down the grand staircase?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Isn’t it funny?
These same types will swear up and down that they are going to ‘heaven’ because they ‘know Jesus’, and that you (generic you) are going to hell because you don’t ‘know Jesus’.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Good to see you!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Mabel and her mama’s boy brat entitled JJr sound like quite the story, each a piece of work in their own right.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Oh do your mean the equating of the religion and the job description of the “other big guy” in your politics?
(The fault lines in all-important doctrines AND organisational affiliations are everywhere)
People told me 50 years ago they wouldn’t because it had been prayed before AND because it was pre-printed, therefore wasn’t spontaneous.
The reaction of the Manifest Destiny CIC (not only protestants have those) – and international scale –
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I.
Ian Paul has dealt with this very point. (I might find exact citation later.) By denying any relevancy to Jesus’ sending Another Comforter at Ascension to strengthen our ministry to Earth in its needs (here I acknowledge Samuel Conner), the pre-trib Rapturists lyingly “combined” justification and sanctification, abolishing both. Holy Scripture does not say – anywhere throughout – we are saved now, only (we hope) some day.
This – through C&MA and other miserable denominations queering Rev. Ravi’s cricket pitch – leads to preaching (as the C of E and other VERY biggest denominations now do) that the main meaning in Daniel is numerological “gotcha”. McLuhan warned against the seizing of microphones and cameras to broadcast the “massage”.
The extremely large proportion of christians that preached pre-trib rapture started to feel sheepish and so they now maintain more firmly than ever that there is no eschaton, therefore no Another Comforter, therefore no ministry, therefore no sanctification. Voila.
So many “Bible Christians” do not believe what the Bible says either in its text OR its meanings. They say they believe. Thus they lie on their own behalf AND on behalf of their conveniently labelled “inerrant” scriptures. (This is not a protestant / non protestant divide BTW.)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
I’ve come to suspect that the phrase “Christian institution” is an utter contradiction in terms. The whole LU mess (Jerry Jr scandals, the abysmal (mis)handling of sexual violence on campus, and so on) is a case in point.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
CMT,
IMHO, you hit the “nail on the head”….. I have seen the same thing, in my lifetime associate with many “ Christian orgs”… this is partially why, again IMHO, why we see, uncover, so much “cover up” in orgs..
LU has marketed itself as a “real Christian “ institution of higher ed, and also associated that with being true to the American, patriotic ideal.. great marketing tool, and as we see, resulted in allot of $$$ from donors that want to believe the myth..
But, humans are humans, and with the internet/social media it is REALLY hard to covered up “stuff
any more….
Further, G$dly behavior does not, necessarily equate to good marketing skill…
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yes, live like hell and escape hell later is the underlying message of antinomianism … it’s the stuff that “cheap grace” is made of, which is not Grace at all.
Oh, it can creep in anywhere. I dare say it is camping out in churches in your area under different labels … a belief that is at the root of many TWW posts on bad-actors in the 21st century church. However, in recent years, it appears to have found a home in fringes of the New Calvinist movement … it’s one of the reasons why I “preach” so much against the new reformation and it’s shallow message of grace-this and grace-that.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Godliness is the long game for Eternity. Marketing is a short game of money pocketed ASAP.
The rich young ruler walked away from Jesus when he was told to count the cost.
Religious leaders today are in bed with rich rulers. They play the short game, together.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Well, no doubt, the genuine is getting tougher to find across a landscape of counterfeit. We have a “Christian institution” of higher learning in our community where you can find all manner of sin (lower learning) among the faculty and student body.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
While Jesus went looking for the poor blind man thrown out of church when he stuck to his testimony that Jesus had healed him. The Kingdom of God and kingdoms of men (even in the church) are two totally different things.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
I wonder how many people have been “thrown out” of LU for asking to many questions??
A corollary, “How many kept their mouth shut because they knew they would be thrown out? “
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Better to be thrown out for asking the wrong questions, than to conceal the right answers.
“If you do not warn him or speak out to tell him to turn from his wicked way to save his life, that same evil man will die in his sin, but you will be responsible for his blood” (Ezekiel 3:18-21).
“
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“Scared Straight”, huh?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max, that is the “Wretched Urgency” verse of Ezekiel, used to press God’s Hell-Gun to the back of our heads with one up the spout and the safety off to WITNESS! WITNESS! WITNESS! OR ELSE!
And that Insane Pressure to WITNESS! WITNESS! WITNESS! OR ELSE! begets equally insane high-pressure sales tactics to keep God from pulling the trigger on you. I’ve seen it happen too many times.
You end up like that concentration camp castration doctor from Leon Uris’ QB VII:
“If I don’t take your balls, the SS will have mine.”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Of which Calvin’s Predestined Election is a very blatant form.
Hence the “Wretched Urgency” of Calvin’s Predestined Elect to PROVE to themselves that they are REALLY one of the Predestined Elect. (And YOU’re Not!)
Just like the Ezekiel verse you quoted earlier, it tends to freeze moral conscience at the Toddler level: Avoid Punishment At All Costs.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“The difference between fiction and reality is fiction has to make sense.”
— either Mark Twain or Tom Clancy
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yet another type example of Christianese One-Upmanship.
If Christians spent less time on One-Upmanship, they might actually accomplish something.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
sounds like Masel (sp?) needed help with her ‘issues’ . . . what happened to her to cause her to be so openly hateful to others? This was a person surrounded with that which might have heard her pain behind all of the negativity, and she was literally BEGGING for help with the red-light intensity of her outbursts. But in the heart of that family, no one heard the pain, they only suffered from her acting-out.
That ‘incident’ was quite an insight into the disfunctional dynamics of that family. Victims all around. And Masel was one of them in the loudness and the loneliness of her torment. Very sad story, this.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
“What you mean ‘We’, White Man?”
— old joke
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Despite the flawed premise (Falwell is a hypocrite for sure), Moore is right about one thing: Jerry Jr. was enabled for far too long by the board and by others profiting from Liberty’s financial success who should have taken him to task and had him removed. His debauchery was on full display.
“Fool me once…” as the saying goes.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The better “real Christian” way would be to stay in our lane. Religious institutions which force their way into the political arena are taking a lower road than the higher road assigned to us. We would do better to stick to the Great Commission, than majoring on the minor of political involvement … living in the Kingdom of God, rather than playing in the kingdom of men … Christian organizations which focus on the latter end up being played by the kingdom of men to their advantage, not the church’s.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
marco,
And, lets not forget all the students of LU that have been “shafted” by this grand debacle..
that is what really depresses me…. And their are a HUGE number of ways students have been “shafted”…..
iMHO they are the real victims here…which, of course, CT does not say boo about…
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
As a side-note: to the dismay of New Calvinists who tune into TWW, ‘ole Max appears to be on the mend from Covid. Fever down, congestion letting up, just got back in the house chiseling out the bird feeders from a winter storm. Son-in-law is also recovering, with my daughter and grandsons showing no symptoms.
Now, back to fighting devils …
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Re: Falwell Senior, I grew up quite far away from Thomas Road in every sense. Falwell Senior made the United States more unpleasant for many people, far and wide. Who was the real Falwell Senior? He was the same man, capable of kindness and malice. He founded a segregation academy, helping to deny Virginia children an education. From Wikipedia, because this history is widely known:
On his evangelist program The Old-Time Gospel Hour in the mid 1960s, Falwell regularly featured segregationist politicians like governors Lester Maddox and George Wallace.[36] About Martin Luther King he said: “I do question the sincerity and nonviolent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations.”[37]
In speaking of the Brown v. Board of Education ruling, he said, in 1958:
“If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God’s word and had desired to do the Lord’s will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made. The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line.”[38]
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Friend,
Stop that!!! We are not suppose to know about such history!! We are just suppose to know that “The Moral Majority” is all about fine Christian values..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Perhaps Junior was more a chip off the old block than he wants to believe … he didn’t fall that far from the tree.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It’s sort of like SBC’s “Conservative Resurgence” which was really a “Calvinist Resurgence” in disguise. Millions of non-Calvinist Southern Baptists were duped on that one, too … while the New Calvinists took over their denomination by stealth and deception, which are certainly not moral values.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
The Nyquil story is enough for me as the grandchild of a Temperance activist. My grandmother never ever took liquid medications—regardless of the claims on the label. 😉
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I’m wondering if, in choosing NOT to say ‘the Lord’s Prayer’, they considered it’s Source and the context that is given when people asked Our Lord to ‘teach them to pray’? That the teaching is given in the Holy Gospels of Our Lord which after centuries of being handed down intact, came to be printed, and all of a sudden, at the whirling of a printing press, all is changed???
Somethings are hard to sort out . . . were those rejecting the Lord’s Prayer using ‘reasons’ or ‘excuses’??? I cannot know.
But that term: ‘libera nos a malo’ should haunt them, I think. (As ‘deliver us from evil’ comes to them from the very One Who died ‘for’ them to be delivered from evil.) (?)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Glad to hear, Max, and hopefully your other half has remained uninfected as well!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
readingalong,
My better half is doing well and Covid-free. Thank you for praying.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Perhaps that was NyQuil in Jerry’s glass, in the photo of him standing next to the yacht girl with their pants unzipped. Pool boys and yacht girls were enough for me! Junior got away with too much for too long at LU.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It’s so weird. There’s a double-standard for grace that is sometimes obvious (like a pastor preaching against adultery while having an affair), but then there’s also a misapplication that people apply in their own lives.
I’m thinking in particular of the Calvinist pastor at our old church. Lied from the pulpit, had a (deserved) reputation for shooting off his mouth, plagiarized a devotional, and (as far as I’m aware), didn’t offer apology for any of them, just expecting blanket forgiveness. But, at the same time, had exacting, perfectionist standards for himself in other areas (that overflowed to legalistic expectations for congregation members). Expecting grace for obvious sin, yet not being able to get off the legalism treadmill and take the “yoke is easy and burden is light” grace of the One who said “it is finished.”
I’ve seen this dynamic elsewhere, with different particulars.
It’s sad, really. And exasperating.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
It is noteworthy that the same substance is at the center of Jesus’ lesson in Matthew 7:3-5 on the plank and the speck; both are made of wood. It is not unreasonable to speculate that the plank and speck are the same sin, but to the “hypocrite,” that sin looks bigger and more egregious when someone else is committing it than when he is committing it himself.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Wild Honey,
I have seen it as well… it seems each group likes to have particular “sins” to “preach against” and others to not just “have grace cover them”, but truly ignore..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
The comment of so-and-so “was always so nice to ME” can be a limited view when the Jekyll-and-Hyde so-and-so slithers covertly to the Dark Side.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
readingalong,
good news about Max’s recovering, yes, thank God
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
If the point you are trying to make is to argue against the standard view of salvation according to Calvinists, then this has been done endlessly throughout the centuries to little point. Jesus made it plain who is and is not His follower in the story of the sheep and goats. In 1st John this is also clarified for leaders. Those who claim to love God but fail to love God’s people in reality love neither. A leader who loves others is not a hypocrite, while those who claim to be Christian leaders but who clearly and plainly do not love certain people are not Christian leaders. They are something else. How simple the scriptures can be for those who respect them.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Rich White Trash cosplaying Poor White Trash.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
… has ensnared many in Christendom since it’s very beginning. You simply can’t trust ministry leaders until you know them … it takes time to figure some of these folks out … keep your distance until you do. Many of course are the real-deal, but the counterfeit has a way to slither in undetected.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yup. I grew up in a strongly segregated community. Some of the nicest people would turn hostile as soon as the “wrong” person walked into the room… somebody Jewish, say, or African American. We all knew what not to say, and whom not to bring to the party. We played along out of profound discomfort, anxiety, a feeling that one friendship would turn the world upside down.
Although bigotry made me uncomfortable from an early age, I most definitely benefited from my skin color. The segregated upbringing also left me with absolutely no vocabulary to discuss bigotry, when people on the receiving end of it gently told their stories. Everybody pays a price for this, and some pay heavily.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Speaking of the Board failing:
https://www.liberty.edu/journal/article/season-of-renewal-new-president-upholds-his-promise-to-carry-out-the-original-goal-training-champions-for-christ/
“Some have voiced concerns that Prevo had worked too closely with Jerry Falwell Jr. in the past to lead Liberty University well today, but it’s clear he’s his own man, and his first priority is to honor God. One of the leading forensic teams in the world has been retained by the Board of Trustees to conduct a thorough investigation into university operations during Falwell Jr.’s tenure as president. Prevo is ready for it.”
This was from September 2020. Has there been anything at all that has come out as far as the supposed “thorough investigation“? Has anything of substance come out about the Board of Trustees it’s self as far as reforms, checks and balances, accountability, transparency, and oversight? Certainly haven’t seen it.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
JDV,
All of my years in as taught me that many leaders are master of “spewing the BS”…the paragraph you have in quotes is a “classic example”…. If I were Provo, or these other “leaders”, I would be so devastated/ embarrassed by this floating, burning dumpster fire, that I would not be able spew out such prose….
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
Moreover, you may have to witness how they treat OTHER PEOPLE, in hidden corners, not just yourself.
True Crime like Dateline often record on camera the neighbors saying, “But they were always to nice to ME,” regarding the killer. Then DNA tells the truth.
Clergy victims get this a lot: “Dearest Youth Pastor is so special, such a stand-up guy, how could he have possibly assaulted you!”
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
Glad to hear your recovering! Glad to got those vaccinations!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yeah, how many times have we heard faithful followers of the fallen say “So what if he was a dirty ole man, he sure could preach!” (Hybels, Zacharias, etc.). Idol worshipers hold on to the bitter end, turning heads from what went on behind the curtain, preferring to remember only the pulpit persona of these bad-boys. Such is the portrait of deception. Charisma, gift of gab, and bag of gimmicks do not buy one’s soul back on Judgment Day.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
If the report of the “independent” investigation went directly to the LU Board, probably not.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
And a lack of making the investigation public, if in fact it the investigation is finished and reported to the Board, further demonstrates that the “leaders” give a d#$& about the students, both past and current…
How can the “leaders” enforce the “Liberty Way”, when they CLERLY overlooked all the corruption on top?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Jeffrey Chalmers,
Opps… DON’T give a d#$&
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Big Brother Can Do No Wrong.
(And they were his Court Favorites, rubbing up to him for his scent of Power. Kiss Up, Kick Down.)
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
i.e. The Fix Is In, as usual.
With the usual appropriate SCRIPTURE verses and Christianese Virtue Signalling.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max:
These guys have to be exposed for what they are in the Here and Now, NOT the Hereafter.
And they have to lose in the Here and Now, even if it’s just reputation.
Otherwise all we’re doing is sitting quietly with folded hands mouthing pious platitude after pious platitude.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
When Christian Monist was growing up in Tennessee, it was an open secret that this one Elder type (maybe the Youth Pastor) was an active pedophile. Accepted because he could either preach or sing hymns really really powerfully.
The Respectable Pillars of the Church would steer newcomer families towars him so the Holy ManaGAWD would rape THEIR kids, NOT MINE.
Howzat for Christian Family Values(TM)?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
RIGHTeousness.
Senior’s behavior in sneaking a big tip (for the time) without Masel finding out also tells a lot. And it was a genuine $20, not the fake-20 Gospel Tract.
Senior was known as a Big Tipper at all his favorit3 eateries; his reason was he was trying to make up for the Christian reputation as bad tippers. Looks like he had an example in his own immediate family. Notice he had to sneak it while Junior was decoying Mommy’s attention elsewhere. This sounds like a well-practiced drill.
P.S. Masel really should have been named Karen (on steroids).
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Nobody is as “Nice to Me” as a Sociopath.
Until the instant you have Outlived your Usefulness.
What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus was talking about when he penned “Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light”? HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW SUCCESSFUL SOCIOPATHS ARE MASTERS OF CAMOUFLAGE.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Agreed! Christians are called to expose the works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11) in the here and now … after that the Judgment. TWW is certainly doing its part to expose, to inform, to warn.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
… was whatever Junior wanted it to be … he had quite a ride! Don’t do what I do, do what I say … it’s the Liberty Way!
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I agree, but let’s face it, evangelical Christianity is primarily concerned with the Hereafter, not the here and now.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Because they are every bit as corrupt as the Cuck and the Cougar.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I guarantee many college students will think this… but, apparently, the leadership of LU do not seem to care..
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Yes. Exactly.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
This is why I don’t come back anymore. I was clarifying that I don’t have the scandalous information people here are looking for about Senior. At the same time, I noted that the Falwell family dynamic was extremely dysfunctional and that was something I did witness. I feel like the rest of what I wrote was just ignored. You added a meaning which wasn’t there in my post. If I was unclear, I’m sorry, but I think I am mostly done with this format on issues like this.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
I knew what you meant, Ishy. Your personal experience with LU and the Falwell’s carry more weight with me than the opinions of others. I have always appreciated your comments and insight and sorry you encountered the abuse you did in “religious” academia.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Obviously, your experience is completely valid.
IMHO… thoughts:
It’s not another person’s fault that the guy may be a con covering up his bad behavior by being nice in some circumstances.
Those who experience the bad guy persona are equally valid in noting the bad guy.
Outside of both experiences, everyone has to weigh in on it all. Does the good guy outweigh the bad guy? Vice versa?
Proverbs says to overlook a slight. Some offenses are overlookable. Other offenses are not.
In any case, the guy-in-question’s behavior is never the responsibility of those on the receiving end.
A public figure is just that… a public figure that the public weighs in on publicly, hopefully with wholistic perspective.
Empathy for those experiencing the bad guy persona, despite our own personal experiences, is something we can all get behind for the good of all.
The question is not us vs them or my experiences vs others’ experiences. The question is: Just WHO is this guy, really? Beyond an anecdote? What’s the whole picture when everyone tells their story… the picture for the good of all?
As HUG noted above, sociopaths groom fans and supporters so they have support and standing when their evil comes to light.
We ask, Are we dealing with a sociopath or a good guy that’s simply human?
One of my favorite coworkers murdered his wife. I changed my point of view based on his wife’s experience, not mine.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
My son-in-law obtained his seminary degree from SBC’s Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary when Paige Patterson was there. While a student, he worked in the administrative offices and got to know PP from the “business” side of things. He said PP was always kind to him and even received a wedding present from the bad-boy. He was shocked when revelations began to emerge about the real PP behind the veil. He still has fond memories of his time at Southwestern and wouldn’t say a bad word about PP, because he doesn’t say a bad word about anybody … but he’s not recommending that anyone attend an SBC seminary these days. We base our personal experiences on what we are dealt at the time.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
In my long tenure on earth, I have found that I don’t really know who anyone is until I see them tested. When someone is squeezed, their real essence comes out. Who am ‘I’, really?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
ishy,
Ishy, I hope this isn’t something I wrongly started. Senior didn’t have “dirt” by worldly standards, far from it.
I read somewhere his grandfather’s middle name was Hezekiah.
Reputedly before him Baptists would leave politics largely alone per se (like Epicurus)? St Paul says “live quietly”.
Susan Haack has pointed out William James was over permissive about unjustified beliefs according to evidence. He was the big personality at the time fundamentalists thought they were getting their act together, but they sought to be “influencers” rather than trust Another Comforter.
Relationship > evidence > trust > belief.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
At all costs don’t flaunt “almost-as-totally-depraved-as-thou” Girardian-Gramscite-Jansenist caper!
Girardian = replication of the victim mentality (false humility meme / habitus)
Gramscite = reshuffle the elite while ensuring the steerage get to stay in the same deckchairs (like Animal Farm)
Jansenist = sin fixation deflected onto the powerless; very Ancien Regime
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I’ve been in my Christian journey long enough to know who I am in Christ.
“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20)
That depraved thing is history; Jesus got ahold of me before I became “totally” depraved. You don’t have to worry about me faking Christianity. I know who I am and whose I am … it’s in my knower. I don’t identify with Junior’s brand of Christian expression, or the great multitude of other religious leaders who have been the subject of TWW posts.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
I reread the Vanity Fair (VF) post and Christianity Today (CT) post. My read of the VF post is that it does not read like an opinion piece supporting Falwell Jr. or against Falwell Jr. It is an interview letting Falwell Jr. to tell his journey. Each section reads like Falwell Jr. and Becki was answering a question from the reporter.
What is it like growing up in Falwell family?
How do you meet Beki? How did you get involved in Liberty U? What happened to your marriage? What is the fall out from the pool boy incident? etc.
Falwell Jr. and Becki admitted the hurts and brokeness in their marriage and describes how he and Becki coped with it. Overall, I feel like they are just starting to process all of the brokeness that was revealed in their life.
On the other hand, CT post reads like a hit piece. It use many words to put shade on Falwell Jr. hinting he is not a “really a Christian” and “We”, Christian failed to love him enough to truely save him to become a “real Christian”. How many times “you are not a real christian in the first place” trope has been throw around in the evangelical world? Patterson abused his power and schema SWBTS funds for his venture. Did anyone question whether he is a “real christian”?
I am disgusted by the CT post. The brokeness of Falwell Jr. and Becki are laid bare for the world to see by news reports and by their own words in the VF post. They are not in denial comparing to Ravi and others.
A bruised reed need not be broken.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Max,
In my lengthy middle period I was taken in by it myself! Hook line and sinker! I copied every way of speaking and thinking of similar “leaders” (but not acting – I heeded “do as I don’t do”).
I’m going to launch a profitable line in T shirts: “Total depravity” on the front and “Limited atonement” on the back 😉
I think the likes of today’s subject could benefit from the book You mean I’m not lazy, stupid or crazy by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo.
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
🙂
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
🙂
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
How about “More Depraved Than Thou”?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Looks like CT was too busy playing “Who’s In and Who’s Out”.
A very Christianese game, where anything goes to prove “ME! NOT THEE!”
Ever wondered if Christians spent all the time and energy they spend in One-Upmanship smackdown games, they might actually accomplish something?
Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Or something in-between?