“In researching this book I have had first-hand accounts from several of John Smyth’s victims. I have also had access to court documents, church records, letters to and from John Smyth, historic material from Iwerne camps and Zambesi Ministries, as well as scores of conversations with people who have been affected by the Iwerne movement over half a century. Some of this has been hard work. Even now, there are people who would prefer that this story was not told. Sometimes that is because they carry shame from what they have done, or what has been done to them. For others, the call to live out the gospel in the form in which it is represented by the Iwerne movement is of such overwhelming importance that they feel that furthering that work is more important than telling the truth about it.
In Zimbabwe, John Smyth was charged with abusing 90 boys. Most of them will never be known. The names and number of Smyth’s victims in South Africa remain unknown as yet, except to God.”
-Andrew Graystone. “Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps” (p.8-9).
On the morning of December 15, 1992, twenty-nine years ago, Guide Nyachuru’s naked body was found floating in a swimming pool at a camp run by John Smyth of Zambesi Ministries. PJ Smyth, then 22 years old and the son of camp director, John Smyth, was one of three counselors looking after the boys assigned to the Chancellor dormitory. Guide Nyachuru was assigned to the Chancellors dormitory.
Here is a clip taken from Channel 4 News of the UK. Cathy Newman is the reporter. This story was aired in 2017.
The following two paragraphs can be found in Wade Mullen’s recently released report on PJ Smyth. As notated in his report, this material was quoted from Andrew Graystone’s very informative book, “Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps”
“Guide was placed in a dormitory called Chancellors with seven other boys and three leaders: PJ Smyth, Paul ‘Spike’ Milligan and Dion Floquet. After an introductory safety talk by the Adjutant, Andrew Ellis, the boys were divided into three groups. What happened during the following 12 hours is unclear. After dark, PJ told the boys they were going skinny-dipping in the outdoor swimming pool. This involved leaving their clothes in the dormitory and walking naked to the pool, which was surrounded by a low wall. The boys were accompanied by their dormitory leaders, but John Smyth later said in evidence that he wasn’t present at the pool, or in the dormitory that night. In typical Iwerne fashion each boy had a partner whose job was to keep an eye on them. Guide Nyachuru was partnered with Mandla Nyathi, an older boy from Plumtree School who he had met for the first time that day. Nyathi was probably the last person to see Guide Nyachuru alive.
At 5 a.m. next morning, the whole camp was woken by a bell. They were told that a boy was missing. Sure enough, Guide’s bed was empty. It hadn’t been slept in. He had been missing all night. Tendai, who was one of the dormitory leaders, was woken up by John Smyth. He was in a flat panic. ‘Tendai, something terrible has happened.’ Then one of the school staff called out, ‘There’s a body in the pool.’ All the campers ran to the pool to find a naked black body floating lifelessly in the deep end. Two senior leaders dived into the pool and pulled him out. His skin was grey. He had clearly been dead for hours. One witness reports seeing bruises on his legs and groin. ‘He’s from your dormitory, isn’t he?’ Smyth said to Tendai. He wasn’t. He was in Chancellors.”
I find several things odd about this incident. First, John Smyth poses a question to Tendai – “He’s from your dormitory, isn’t he?” Was Smyth honestly confused, or was he attempting to subtly change the narrative, hoping Tendai was uncertain what dormitory Nyachuru had been assigned to?
Second, what about the bruises to Guide Nyachuru’s legs and groin?
Third, I find the ratio of campers to dorm leaders very low. There were eight campers in the Chancellors dormitory and 3 leaders! I attended several camps in my youth and to the best of my recollection we had 12-20 campers in our cabin with only one leader.
Fourth, all the camps I attended had a strict “buddy system” in place. We always swam in pairs and whenever the lifeguard blew his whistle we immediately paired up with our buddy. Prior to entering the water there was a number count of pairs and upon leaving the water buddies were paired up again and counted to make sure the same number that went in the water came out of the water. Additionally, the pool was checked by the Lifeguard to make certain there were no bodies in the pool.
Fifth, prior to lights out for the night, our cabin leader checked to make sure everyone assigned to his cabin was present and accounted for.
It seems like these same procedures were likely in place at the Zambesi camp. As we heard in the video, the youth went to the pool with their assigned buddy and walked back to their dormitory with their assigned buddy. John Smyth watched them enter and leave through the gate to the pool. They also had a “lights out” time, (see the quote below taken from Graystone’s “Bleeding For Jesus” book) and I assume the leaders would have been responsible to ensure all their campers were in their beds.
I find it hard to believe that 3 leaders, in charge of watching over 7 youth, would not have noticed Guide Nyachuru was missing. As we read above, Guide’s bed had not been slept in.
Below is some information from Wade Mullen’s report. You can see how PJ Smyth slightly altered his story concerning the death of Guide Nyachuru
At the end of the day we are left wondering if Guide Nyachuru’s death was an accidental drowning, or whether something more sinister was at play. Again, I quote from Andrew Graystone’s. “Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps.”
“Over the following months a narrative developed around the events of Guide’s death. Perhaps he fell awkwardly, or hit his head whilst diving, and drowned. Probably, as a country boy from a small school, he wasn’t a good swimmer (though his father and sister later testified that he was). Perhaps he died of heart failure. It had been dark, and his absence wasn’t noticed on the return to the dormitory. All of these are plausible. It is equally plausible that Guide Nyachuru died in some other way, perhaps as a result of an accident whilst resisting assault, and that his body was deliberately placed in the pool, to be found when the sun rose next morning, We will probably never know.”
Finally, if you are interested in reading more about John and PJ Smyth, I highly recommend this book by Andrew Graystone.
Horrific
Almost unbelievable.
“He was a child you would love to have. He was someone who would listen to whatever you say. He wasn’t rude to anyone.” -Edith, Guide’s sister, on the video.
So predator monster Smyth of the devil targeted this child of God, Guide.
Who was facing the camera at the grave? So it was PJ that told the boys to leave all (all) their clothes behind? Why did Virgo (whose creepy associates I’ve had dealings with) overpromote him and on whose behalf? PJ had been prominent enough that he could negotiate some genuine space and collect himself; he didn’t need to listen to Terry.
Dee, thank you again for an important post & book recommend.
There will be the sighs, and “oh dear, not another scandal”, as well as those who prefer to look away.
In truth, each story is a case study, qualitative research, for what goes on right under the noses of polite society, even Christian.
Can we see it now, recognize red flags?
Can we step out of our Christian (camp) Myth and into reality?
And what will we do in our day-to-day workaday communities to make the world safer for all?
Communities that include a boy who “listens to what you say, never rude, and a child you would love to have” who ends up a dead body in the swimming pool on Day 2 of Christian Camp?
If lookie-loos are tired of having to see damaged children as they walk on by en route to their Bible studies, children have had enough of being plundered and tossed by authoritarian religious folks while everyone looking on gives a sigh or “oh dear” or nothing.
Jack the Whipper strikes again…
Besides the obvious Sadism (the pain of others giving him Pleasure) and the recounting of Elite Boarding School Culture (the teacher who trained him), Jack the Whipper sounds so far In The Closet he’d lost all sight of the door.
(I’ve got faulty Gaydar and this one’s pinging Five-by-Five.)
You forgot the pious “I’ll Pray For You(TM)” before crossing to the other side of the road.
Didn’t read further than the first couple of paragraphs. Forgive me, Todd.
—
I’m trying to understand why church hierarchies aren’t in more of a panic over the reputational harm they (not to mention God/Jesus/the churches) suffer because of crimes like this. One would think that they would be in anguish and would have hair-trigger sensitivity to misconduct on the part of officers of their institutions. One would expect hair-trigger sensitivity to the possibility of personality disoreders in candidates for vocational ministry.
A hypothesis is that the occupants of the hierarchy may not regard the lowest levels, the non-ordained masses, to matter all that much. They, the hierarchy, are the Church — l’Eglise, c’est eux — and the masses are just the substrate on which they act. Being numerous, perhaps they are regarded to be expendable.
—
In US, the Ev churches have been influenced to a posture of skepticism toward psychology, so that the possibility of intractable personality disorders is discounted and there is little concern to take measures to reduce the likelihood that people like this ascend to places of power over others.
Apres eux, le deluge.
Gaydar pinging stronger, with PJ as Daddy’s Accomplice and/or Procurer…
“Leave all (all) your clothes behind” is a sexual predator M.O. I ran across in early Furry Fandom. There it was offering a young target a hotel room share (which would not arouse suspicion in and of itself – room splits to cut expenses are common); the first night the predator finds some way to trick the prey into “leave all (all) their clothes behind” (like hiding his PJs, especially the bottoms) then moves in for the kill.
Because such crimes have become a Privilege of Pastoral Rank, and One Hand Washes The Other.
Predators can also run in packs (with long Pious prayers for justification).
I interviewed Andrew Graystone (the author of Bleeding for Jesus) on October 30, 2017. He told me he thought there was a 50-50 chance Guide was murdered based on his investigation.
Thanks for sharing that information, Brent. My guess is that Graystone was being conservative.
I totally understand!
Yep. I have a very bad feeling about this and I would tend to agree, and maybe think there’s a higher percentage of murder than just 50 percent. Unfortunately, since John Smyth is dead, we can’t find out the truth from him. And PJ is likely to never tell the truth either.
Speaking of PJ, where is he? He’s no longer at Monument Church here in the USA, and he was turfed from Advance at the same time. It is my understanding that PJ was here on a religious worker visa and needed a sponsor. If he’s no longer at Monument Church, what about his visa? I did a quick search and it appears that religious workers on temporary (R-1) visas can adjust their status to permanent resident (aka “green card”). I wonder if PJ is doing that?
But seriously, where is PJ Smyth and what is he doing?
What a tragic story. PJ continues to deceive the people at Monument Church (the church that PJ started after he left CLC, bringing many CLC people with him).
I recently spoke with someone who attends and she believes (along with others at Monument) that he has been traumatized by the past and needs much healing/support (which the congregants are happy to provide). She said the reason why he stepped down was to protect him (this conversation was before he officially resigned).
What is also disturbing is that all of PJ’s sons are very attractive and popular. Many church girls (along with their mothers approval) want to date them. I can’t imagine my daughter being married into this family. I shudder to think about it, but many moms think otherwise. Such deception!
The Iwerne Trust passed into history and The Titus Trust rose from its ashes. It reached a settlement with three victims. The Archbishop of Canterbury launched a new inquiry under the leadership of Keith Makin into the Iwerne Trust which was ongoing in September 2021. Perhaps it was unwise to release this book before the inquiry published its findings as it is alleged that there were a number of inaccuracies contained in it, which you can read about here –
https://stileman.online/2021/09/01/inaccuracies-in-bleeding-for-
A 50/50 chance might meet “the balance of probabilities” test but in a criminal case it has to be proven “beyond reasonable doubt”.
A more fruitful line of enquiry is Dr Valerie’s Hobbs insightful “Introduction and Overview of The Subtle Language of Abuse: A Catalogue” which interacts with an email sent by an apologist(?) for Iwerne earlier this year. It would also be interesting to know who the alumni of Iwerne were and where they are now.
Demonic. The camp from Hell.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Does he actually have a “name” or only a digraph? Pete? Phil? Paul? Perry? The vest he wears is weird.
Lowlandseer,
1 – Something launched by the Abp of Canterb. isn’t a reliable “brand name” in itself and pressures against Makin will be colossal, so I suspect this helps rather than hinders.
2 – A conviction is for sentence.
3 – An outsider like Hobbs (or like I’ve become) can parse actual words though I found her recent book didn’t go far enough.
4 – There is a colossal amount on the Smyth-Fletcher series of affairs on many pages like:
https://survivingchurch.org/2021/12/16/will-anyone-ever-be-held-to-account-over-john-smyth/
Max,
The entire Smyth-Fletcher complex (and it is huge) is part and parcel of dumbed-down designer outlet robotic congregations throughout the C of E, New Frontiers and their many copycats and lookalikes, I’m very sorry but I’ve seen this a number of times, there is not always a “cruel” level of cruelty, but always a waste of spiritual gifts, showcasing / creeping, showing off. I don’t suppose Smyth or Fletcher ever prayed and I don’t suppose they had belief.
Thanks for this information. I will watch with interest for the release of Keith Makin’s inquiry. I would appreciate hearing from you when it is released. (tlwdxb@protonmail.com ) I read Stileman’s listing of errors in Graystone’s books and I hope they are corrected. Stileman also had a link to an excellent report which can be found here: https://www.titustrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/TT-JS-document-20-August-21.pdf
As for the court case in Zimbabwe against John Smyth, I am left with the impression that obtaining justice in the Zimbabwe courts is not an easy task.
Thank you TODD for this post and book recommend. Thank you Dee for the blog.
Yes, that, too.
Pilgrims seeking peace like a river, may land in croc-filled waters, unawares. Deadly. Church. Church institutions.
“They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners, ‘God’s messengers’ only by their own appointment. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness — but their end will correspond with their deeds.” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)
You’re right, they’re not, that’s the “beauty” of it for them.
Max,
Nights at camp, it should be prayer meeting, Scripture reading, reciting psalms. Not disorienting / depersonalising “dares”.
Rosie, encouraging news that a forward looking element are so kindly. Let’s pray that it works out. He is like some of the Duggars.
I’m really alarmed at Virgo’s role.
I came across this in Graystone’s book. I had no idea PJ is tied to 2 untimely deaths.
“In the early years of the 1990s, Zambesi Holidays were visited by two tragedies. The camp owned a pickup truck in which young camp leaders were often asked to give people lifts and pick up supplies from the nearby shops. Smyth’s son PJ was driving the truck down the broad Marondera Road on the way to Ruzawi School when a black farmhand who was walking unsteadily on the road suddenly bolted in front of the vehicle. He was knocked down and killed. Police were called to the incident, but no action was taken. Nevertheless the camp leaders were shocked, and talked about it long into the night.”
Graystone, Andrew. Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps (pp. 136-137). Darton, Longman & Todd LTD. Kindle Edition.
And this on John Smyth:
Mani had been beaten regularly on the camps, but he was never punished at Zambesi House – quite the reverse. Instead, Smyth would call him to his office, stroke his hair and body and tell him he was a good boy. ‘You’re such a good boy that I want to give you a present,’ he would say. The present was sharing a bed with him.
Graystone, Andrew. Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps (p. 135). Darton, Longman & Todd LTD. Kindle Edition.
Thanks for the comment, Rosie. I know that in both Wade Mullen’s report and Andrew Graystone’s book they mention that PJ has been traumatized because his father also abused him. Maybe John Smyth did abuse PJ, I don’t know and really have no way of knowing. However, I would be curious to know when PJ first made the claim that his father abused him. Was it after he made the claim of memory loss in an attempt to cover up his lies that he had no knowledge of his dad’s abuse? If so, I am skeptical. Here is a tweet I recently published. Would a guy that had been routinely abused speak in such positive terms of his abuser? Perhaps. I am no expert. I do know from my experience in covering abuse that when children are abused by their parents they frequently cut off all communication with them when they are adults. I am currently researching just such a story.
I don’t know a thing about PJ’s sons, perhaps they are great kids. But I think there is reason to be concerned.
https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1469458234767556626?s=20
Ava Aaronson,
You’re welcome. Thanks for being a regular reader and commenter, Ava. BTW, I have your book in Kindle format and hope to get to it soon.
“PJ” had his conscience distorted by the extensive establishment that has been knowingly egging on his father and later, the Fletchers and the others in the name of designer outlet muscular christianity. He is a slow grower like political dynasty members. He should self-manage his hypomanias and start on some job skills.
Brent, I’ve been devouring your blog posts. It’s amazing how much information you have on the various abuse cases. Thanks for all your work.
Numerous organisations and experts have been submitting reports on this since 1982 which were rejected. If Winchester College had gone to the police about brutality against their pupils, “PJ” ‘s entire life would be better: perhaps someone on its staff or trustees was “ideologically” involved but wanted to keep that covert.
Off topic, but let me invite you to church this morning. Here, it is a frosty morning in the Ozarks. The sun is bright after 3 days of clouds, heavy rains, and some flooding. I have Christmas songs on the radio (the real ones, not a bit of Holly Jolly or Blue Christmas. Just ones about Jesus.)
I am considering kicking off a new Bible reading plan for the upcoming year. Might start it a bit early today. It would be using a concordance and finding and pondering all the verses about the loving mercy of God, and marking them so I have a “mercy Bible” at the end of it.
All the way through my Bible I find God’s mercy and His love for us. The dude bros would have me believe He is a mean, angry, sadistic ogre. NOT SO!
This might wash my brain of all their folderal.
Michael in UK,
You’re right. Tragically, I can’t imagine any prestigious school in the UK taking such action at the time.
In the 1980s, I talked with a British teacher about child sexual abuse in schools, and was told that it was an American problem: “We don’t have that over here.” I don’t think any country has handled the problem adeptly. People would rather not face such a disturbing problem and the extensive damage to young lives.
Heirs to the pulpit of House Bolton, Wardens of the North?
Gaydar goes PING! PING! PING PING! PING!
(This is the exact shtick of that Furry Fandom sexual predator I mentioned above. Same-sex, ehebephile.)
P.S. Besides being into that kink of Upper-class Victorians, Erotic Flagellation (KINK OF ENGLAND!), didn’t Jack the Whipper also head some sort of organization for Christian Family Values?
Todd Wilhelm,
The adage “hurt people hurt people” is not always true. For example, some abused people gain empathy for the suffering of others. If PJ was hurt by his dad, he is more likely, as Todd implies, to hurt his own kids. Where does this stop (if we agree hurt people hurt people)? Did John Smyth’s father abuse him? Where does personal responsibility come in?
Godith,
Great insight. This is so complicated. A lot of people can learn not to pass on the abuse they experienced. I think, though, some people are so damaged that they can’t really assume personal responsibility; it has to be imposed on them one way or another. Likewise I think some predators come from normal families.
I know someone who was sexually abused by several primary relatives. She chose not to marry, out of an absolute terror that she would harm a child. That is one way to show personal responsibility.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Unfortunately predators come in every variety. This particular story shows how easily youngsters can be duped into thinking extremely weird stuff is somehow normal or acceptable, or that they have to overcome hesitation and go along with it. Absolutely terrifying.
Godith,
The conscience of “PJ” was warped by his dad. Winchester College didn’t care for the child of the perpetrator, nor for their own. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear such schools are still like that. Running a criminal in can show their child it’s alright to be different from dad (and in their case they weren’t poor anyway).
Abuse includes imposing on conscience.
I worry about:
– the lack of scouting around by “PJ” for alternative career paths
– the bad discernment and intentions of much or most of New Frontiers leadership (TV is Sussex based) and vulnerable survival of integrity of their underlings (which I was)
The clip doesn’t show a man pleased with his dad, it shows a loudmouth trotting out the same story he has trotted out before, and doesn’t think about, instead of preaching as a “preacher man” was supposed to do in the old days.
If better people than TV had had a word with him he could have retired from the gig a few years back. I have a list, am wondering whether they tried to give good advice, whether he told them to get lost, or what.
Whatever he did at the hands on level to his children they can now think of wider career options (and religious belief options) themselves. They are probably at Guide’s age and his age then.
Rome called christians atheists and christians call the agnostic deconstructionist Jesus an atheist because He believed in Holy Spirit to the extent of trusting Him in you and me.
Yes.
“In 2002 Smyth set up his own organisation, the Justice Alliance of South Africa (JASA), to act as a vehicle for his campaigning work. The organisation aimed to defend Judaeo-Christian values in the public square. Stephen van Rhyn, the high profile pastor of Jubilee Church in Cape Town, agreed to chair the organisation, and he recruited several prominent church leaders to his board of trustees. Using JASA as a ‘flag of convenience,’ Smyth fought legal battles against abortion rights, homosexuality and pornography. He was often on television, and his cases were reported in the national press.
Van Rhyn admits that the board had little or no control over the organisation. ‘We didn’t meet often – perhaps twice a year. We didn’t direct JASA in any way. We just met to hear what John had been doing; what cases he had decided to take up.’ JASA collected donations to fund Smyth’s work, and paid him a stipend of around £1,300 a month.”
Graystone, Andrew. Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps (p. 194). Darton, Longman & Todd LTD. Kindle Edition.
Friend,
My dad was in a bad movement which still has a good reputation, but my mum got him out of it. I am slowly inferring vague things about our old neighbourhood. Earlier, Mum is now last known to have seen the brother she didn’t tell us she had, when she was 16 and he was 12. We were very badly off for a long while. I struggled with specific learning differences for which help I almost got suddenly didn’t materialise (several times).
I’m old, ill and single, and christian doctrine is that people like me mustn’t be in church, that is what your friend faces already or soon. Marriage isn’t something one can always “trigger”. Christians don’t care enough to match make of which there was a non-coercive version, nor to befriend other couples / families. To not bother, not only quenches Holy Spirit, it opens the door to the bullies to walk all over us. Holy Spirit works through thoughtfulness.
Oh and it’s not so satanic if a couple don’t go out of their way to have children, really. It ought to be no skin off anyone else’s nose whether they “couldn’t” or not. Christians don’t care about the quality of my belief, only about the body motions. Too much prying, copied off JP II.
Todd Wilhelm,
TWW is a great place for understanding, growth, and fellowship.
http://www.wildmustangmall.com has an “about” that explains how I wrote the novel.
https://wildmustangmall.com/about
God bless.
Exactly like County Council and D of E Teacher Training College teachers who told us 14 year olds we should consider “having” sex outside marriage * , girls who were our age then (who weren’t at my school at that time) are grandmothers so there is a third generation with confused defenses, of whom a proportion are fortunately protesting, while the boys are almost all either glad to become r**ists or so afraid to become r**ists they hate themselves already.
Those were Jimmy Savile days. I afterwards met a traumatised BBC (studio) cameraman.
{ * This is VERY different to the non-authoritative playground tittle-tattle among our peers. It was OFFICIAL }
I agree we have to look at that wider clan, including mentors who weren’t blood relatives, and movements they had been linked with.
Michael in UK,
While looking into another of my old haunts – Hildenborough Hall – I came across an indirect link to the Iwerne camps which led me on to an excellent article on Evangelism by Gavin Reid in which Iwerne is again mentioned and a number of alumni named. Looking through the names took me to a blog where the Bleeding for Jesus book was being discussed. You can find it here
https://www.psephizo.com/life-ministry/does-bleeding-for-jesus-help-resolve-abuse-issues/
The author ends by saying this -“And I am left with a very awkward question: when people use the stories of other people’s abuse to push their own theological and ecclesial agendas, is this not simply adding to the abuse”.
Michael in UK,
The Archbishop of Canterbury is one of many who passed through Iwerne but that in itself doesn’t obstruct any enquiry, unlike the earlier one which was derailed.
A conviction for any offence is surely what is desired.
Hobbs didn’t need to go further, the evasion was exposed.
I’ve read this.
And the question at the end of my previous comment still needs to be answered.
Lying is not trauma needing healing. Lying is sin needing confession, restitution, and a 180.
Lying is included in the list of seven things that God hates (Proverbs 6:16-19). Indeed, most of those things characterize the wickedness addressed in this blog piece.
Goodness and mercy do not follow the dudebros all the days of their life. The New Calvinist God doesn’t do things like that.
Religion has always included comparisons: “we are better than they are.” Some comparisons are harmless. Others can lead to war.
Abuse needs to be exposed and also prosecuted if criminal. It also needs to be prevented. If a group adopts safety standards (screening, training, accountability, transparency, safety procedures, building security, etc.), people should feel safer among them. Any group should be prepared to describe its safeguards.
Americans are leaving religion in droves, and I think the situation in the UK is similar. People are not just leaving churches, they are leaving Christianity and other religions. Any sales claim that “WE don’t abuse people” should be an instant and permanent turnoff.
Lowlandseer,
Lowlandseer,
– I agree fully with all your points (Smyth J passed away meanwhile).
– I’m hugely grateful for your link to Ian Paul’s article.
– I should have added that I totally deplore the misdescription and misquoting of Messrs / Revv Macinnes, Stileman, Watson A, Paine, Stott, Watson D et al, and that the publisher was very wrong in not engaging a co-editor in support, regardless of relative timing to any other initiative.
– On the theology side I think the atmosphere alluded to on Graystone’s page 16 came in in the early 1990s.
– Graystone’s neglect of logic (which supports honesty) made him twist or miss information that would strengthen his apparent core case if he cared (which I would have applauded).
– Anthony Thiselton seems to be a missing link in doctrinal investigations. I eagerly await his tome which I ordered.
– My own hermeneutics and semiotics led me to the same interpretation of Ascension – the central event in history as we see it – as our own Samuel Conner explained to us this summer, and I favour all doctrines that don’t dumb that down, and all forms of churchmanship except bad amplifying and hectoring; but that’s just me.
Whether in this world or the next, one day he will be brought to justice.
Max,
Predators and bystanders need to heal from their “trauma” of sins of omission and commission?
Go figure.
Big red flag, this “healing” from “trauma” deal.
Todd Wilhelm,
Thank you for this quote Todd. This shows us who the missing link is between Terry and the USA. Jesus’, Paul’s and James’ approach to political dimensions would focus on discerning advocacy and would eschew dominionism, and I don’t know more detail on JASA per se.
But the accent of New Frontiers, like so many other denominations, was new apostolic as to its erratic form of governance, “restorationist” as to vetoing the fivefold, and a non-partisan dominionism for political appeal. I knew genuine people whose gifts went to waste in it, not long ago. We ought to launch prayers for the several denominations / congregations in this position.
Muff Potter,
Ava Aaronson,
A thing I will say from inside knowledge is that realising what movement one has come out of hits one in regard to realising – I can’t describe it better (I’ve been in almost countless strange ones). Then the schooling “PJ” got probably wasn’t good either.
Among the worst moves as to joint “discernment” were the last, Terry and Stephen’s arranging for his transfer, and the previous, his engagement at Harris’ old place.
If that was the same Harris as has declared to be atheist, how does the exit of “PJ” compare in stated motive to his? (Excuse me if it was someone different.)
It’s taken me two thirds of a century to figure out my own flavour of refusing to disbelieve, myself.
Dee–you do a good job keeping politics out of here, so I will so TOTALLY understand if this is not allowed past the gatekeepers.
I don’t want this to be about being pro or anti Donald Trump.
Rather, what has me about to throw up is what was said about him Sunday at First Baptist Dallas. Not only has Jesus been ejected from the SBC I guess, but He has been replaced by ex president Trump. It appears from what I read that this was basically a MAGA rally instead of a Christmas service, with Trump as the new savior.
Somebody please prove this did not happen. Not at the used to be “Mother Church” where Billy Graham was a long time member.
Has the SBC gone from “Jesus” to “timeless truths” now to “Donald Trump?”
I still think he either suicided as things were closing in or WAS suicided to keep him from embarrassing His Betters.
Same ambiguity as Jeffrey Epstein.
Psychobabble Code Words making the jump to Propaganda Buzzwords.
Over-Psychonalyzing everything, just like Over-Spiritualizing everything.
Banging Carmen Sandiego?
(too good a straight line to pass up…)
Some to Holy War with Genocide on top.
“DEUS VULT!”
In fact I wonder if Darton L & T hadn’t been asked (by someone) to rush the book and not help Mr Graystone adequately in order to sink the story, thinking he not they would get whatever blame.
Todd Wilhelm,
Todd, can you see if any publishers’ editors or similar personnel are named on the acknowledgements page(s)?
Friend,
I agree. One thing that troubles men all this is that I knew the person Dr Hobbs had dealings with – he had been my pastor in the recent past. I was surprised to see him defending the indefensible and wondered what the connection could be. An Iwerne alumnus possibly? I didn’t look Into it further but I did think it explained why there were so many evangelical Anglicans attached to the church and its linked organisations. Iwerne has had a wide reach in all denominations up here.
Lowlandseer,
“Troubles men” should read “troubles me”
I didn’t quote all of the acknowledgements, but he mentioned Smyth’s victims and then dedicated the book to Guide Nyachuru. Below is a quote from the acknowledgements:
“The team at Channel 4 News were inspiring in their professionalism and commitment as we worked to bring these events to public attention. I’m especially grateful to Cathy Newman, Job Rabkin and Tom Stone. Not only were they meticulous in researching and presenting what had happened; they were also careful at every stage to put the needs of the victims first. I am particularly grateful to victims and others in the UK, Africa and the USA who have read the book and offered their own comments.
Archbishop Justin Welby also read the book before publication. I know that it was painful for him to read, and there are places where he feels I have misrepresented his involvement in the Iwerne movement, and his knowledge of John Smyth’s abuse. He was offered the opportunity to write a response for inclusion in these pages, but he declined.”
Graystone, Andrew. Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps (pp. 4-5). Darton, Longman & Todd LTD. Kindle Edition.
My Gaydar just pinged so hard it exploded.
THAT is the exact M.O. of that Furry Fandom Sexual Predator I mentioned above. You know, the one that would make his conquests by offering room shares at Furry Cons?
Similar target profile, too – Same-Sex Ehebephile.
(Ehebephilia – what is it about these aging guys going after adolescent “jail bait”?)
First Baptist Dallas (a Dallas Mega).
Megapstor/Superapostle/Court Evangelical Jeffress the Flatterer, once more brown-nosing up to his RealLORD and God while his pewsitters chorus “AAAAAAA-MENNNNNN!!!”
This whole story of John Smyth, his son, Peter John Smyth, and the Zam Hols is extraordinary. As Brent Detweiler said, Covenant Life Church sure knows how to pick ’em. To get PJ after Josh Harris and Mahaney is astounding. Did John smyth truly die of a heart attack? Where is PJ now and what is he doing? PJ wanted to take over the camps and stop the nudity but continue the beatings. He literally said that, if Wade Mullins report is to be believed.