A grazing encounter between two spiral galaxies ESA Hubble
Lawsuit: A machine which you go into as a pig and come out of as a sausage. Ambrose Bierce
I wanted to get this up so everyone is aware of what is happening at McLean Bible Church as run by David Platt who is part of the Neo-Calvinist or what I call the ‘Calvinista” crowd. When Platt was hired by McLean Bible Church (MCB), I knew there would be trouble, tout suite. I also knew that this church which did not hold to the hardball authoritarianism of Platt and friends.
Here is the article I wrote in June about the trouble Was McLean Bible Church *Predestined* to Come Under the Umbrella of David Platt and the Southern Baptist Convention?. This is a synopsis of the problems.
- Mclean Bible Church has great buildings and lots of money.
- The SBC is drooling over such resources and encouraging the takeover of such churches.
- David Platts is an ardent Reformed Southern Baptist. So what did MBC think they were getting with him as a pastor?
- MBC was/is a member of the SBC.
- Platt and friends denied it but I have a screenshot in that post proving they are part of the SBC.
- The MBC regulars did not want to be part of the SBC, causing the ‘elders’ heartburn.
- The leaders released a statement that they asked the SBC. to remove the listing. They also planned to stop sending money to the SBC.
- They make everyone sign NDAs. I wonder what the boys are hiding.
Here were my closing thoughts on that post.
Final thoughts
- The church has a huge mess on its hands.
- I believe the church should call for an independent investigation into these matters.
- I believe that the church has been a long-time member of the SBC but the members didn’t know it.
- If Solomon had an NDA, they should release him.
- Joe Carter, Exec pastor, and TGC leader can be quite mean at times. His Twitter account has been cleansed. However, the Christian Post wrote this story: The Gospel Coalition, Christian Bloggers Spar Over Sovereign Grace Ministry, C.J. Mahaney on Twitter Guess who was right.
- I don’t trust David Platt and I have a good reason. There is his apparent lie up above. (We are not SBC) Also, I wrote this post when I first met Todd Wilhelm: My, My Dubai: 9 Marks Played Hardball While Lifeway/ David Platt Stretched the Truth
Yes, I know there is lots more. I suspect there will be more posts as the mess progresses.
Your devoted blog queen was right. It can be summed up like this.
Then all **** broke loose.
The infamous vote
What happened?
Platt, par for the Reformed SBC takeover course, put 3 prospective elders up for a vote and lost. According to FISM in McLean Bible Church In Conflict Over New Elder Vote
Platt informed his congregation of trouble brewing early in July when three prospective elders failed to achieve a 75% majority vote to become elders. According to Christianity Today, there is a faction within McLean Bible Church that spread misinformation about the intentions and integrity of the three prospects, which swayed the vote. Platt said,
So Platt did what any politically motivated pastor would do. He put up his slate of prospective elders again. He then denied some folks the right to vote, claiming that they shouldn’t have voted anyway because they hadn’t been coming to church. This was rather dicey, given the mess with Covid.
Who took over who?
Many members believed that they were lied to about who David Platt really is as a pastor. (They should have read TWW.) So now, the members who are dissenting are the ones trying to take over the church. Platt claimed that the dissenting members were lying about his goals for the church. Christianity Today posted Platt’s McLean Bible Church Hit With Attempted Takeover, Lawsuit from Opposition
Online posts on blogs, Facebook, and email charged Platt with pushing critical race theory, revising biblical teaching on sexuality, and aligning with the SBC despite McLean’s constitutional prohibition of affiliating with any denomination.
Opponents of McLean’s current leadership wrote in a blog posted by the right-wing Capstone Report that Platt—who became pastor of the DC church full time in 2018—was attempting to “purge conservative members.”
…“I know it’s so ugly and painful to even hear, but I want to point out the approach that’s being used by people giving leadership to this group in these meetings,” he told the congregation, calling the claims made about him and the incoming elders “unquestionably untrue and in many cases completely unreasonable.”
However, it is my personal opinion that Platt and his SBC buddies erred in their hurry to take over the buildings and the money. It appears to me that Platt played a game and I said that in my post above. I believe it was his initial takeover game that has led to this moment. No doubt some members are saying things that aren’t true. But not all of them. These members appear to be defending what they believe to be true. Too bad that Platt and Carter couldn’t have humbled themselves and slowed down to bring more members on board but that isn’t the Calvinista way.
A group of members brought a lawsuit against McLean Bible Church. Platt complains that this is a hostile takeover.
You gotta love these guys. They come in, cause a big fat ruckus while changing a church culture, and then claim that the members are the ones attempting a hostile takeover.
Word and Way posted David Platt’s Dreams for McLean Bible Church Sour as Members File Lawsuit Over Elder Vote
Platt has claimed that the church is trying to fight off a hostile takeover and that Satan is trying to divide the church.
The dispute at McLean may now end up in court. In a complaint filed Thursday (July 15), five McLean members allege that Platt and other leaders illegally barred them from voting at a recent congregational meeting to approve new church leaders. The plaintiffs also claim a follow-up election at the church this weekend violated the church’s constitution.
“This is a breach of contract action seeking to remedy Defendants’ illegal actions to deny Plaintiffs their rights to cast a free and fair vote, to have those votes lawfully counted, and to enjoy their right to a secret ballot,” according to the complaint.
Platt and his bevy of lawyers (and SBC hangers-on) claimed this lawsuit should be dismissed because the court should not be involved in internal church matters.
Well, Platt got slapped upside the head by the judge. According to the Capstone Report:
In a lawsuit to defend the voting rights of members of McLean Bible Church, the dissident conservative members won a victory before a Fairfax Circuit Court judge Friday, December 3, 2021. McLean Bible Church filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit by claiming the dispute involved religious issues. Judge Thomas P. Mann rejected McLean’s arguments and denied the motion in a bench ruling.
“I considered writing an opinion, but given what has been presented, I don’t find the issues to be novel or groundbreaking,” Judge Mann said. “The motion to dismiss is denied…While the defendants do scatter terms such as theology, prayerfulness, doctrine, specific books of the Bible, and interpretation of the Scripture throughout its papers to put really what is a round dispute over the church constitution and adherence to that constitution into the square hole of the First Amendment. That is really what is happening here with this motion. Really per the complaint (the issue here) is whether the procedural requirements of the church’s constitution were followed or whether there were shenanigans in order to produce a pretextual result.”
You see, the courts do have some interest in church disputes when they involve the church constitution. Earth to authority adherents-you can’t break the law and a church must adhere to the constitution which is almost like a legal agreement for how the church will be run. And even then, they cannot mess with the First Amendment. It appears the judge got irritated by McLean Bible Church’s arguments in which they attempted to sound all holy-like.
In the end, the following is a press release that I messily copied into a file and cannot find the original document. But, it is readable and interesting. My favorite line?
We are pleased that the court saw through the transparent efforts of the Defendants to use Christianized language to cloak their unchristian efforts to prevent a free and fair vote under the MBC constitution.
I bet it was hard for these authority-driven leaders to get schooled by a judge.
Also, I’m getting tired of the “blame the people in my church” game. It sounds to me like a certain someone didn’t have time to deal honestly and forthrightly with the truth. Time to look at the shepherds.
Ha! Great opening quote.
Greetings Dee and Todd. You mentioned you were receiving some disturbing information about Bruce Ashford in a comment to a previous post. Do you have any updates about that? I saw an update on his Facebook asking people to donate money so he can keep writing. He also has an ad online for offering his services as a proofreader or editor. And he mentioned in the update that he is working 30 hrs per week for Lyft to pay the bills.
Can you give us an update? Why did SEBTS treat him differently than others who no longer work there? He didn’t get the goodbye party as you mentioned. And that is strange considering Daniel Akin posted a goodbye tweet about his good friend James Merritt who has recently come under fire for telling the racist joke about Rustus (?).
“Platt has claimed that the church is trying to fight off a hostile takeover and that Satan is trying to divide the church.“
Read this out loud to my husband. He replied, “Satan is too busy growing mold in our toilet to divide our marriage to be bothered with trying to divide MacLean.”
“It appears the judge got irritated by McLean Bible Church’s arguments in which they attempted to sound all holy-like.”
+++++++++++++++++++
God gets just as irritated.
(i don’t think i’m being presumptuous)
“…use Christianized language to cloak their unchristian efforts”
++++++++++++
i hate it when that happens.
Platt is SOOOOOOOO Important and SOOOOOOOO Godly that Satan himself is singling him out for special attention.
What would God ever do without such a Spiritual Giant as Platt?
Wild Honey on Mon Dec 13, 2021 at 11:27 PM said:
“Satan is too busy growing mold in our toilet to divide our marriage to be bothered with trying to divide MacLean.”
++++++++
ha! that’s funny!
Obviously, Platt’s mistake was not implementing a strict form of membership covenant before the first elder vote. This is a reliable way to exclude people who won’t kowtow.
Also, the covenant could be structured to forbid lawsuits as a first resort, and the prescribed alternative dispute resolution mechanisms will favor the one paying for the ADR, i.e. the church hierarchy.
——
In DP’s favor, though, I will give him this — he isn’t trying to consume the homes of widows.
as far as we can tell. Perhaps one has to wait until the next big strategic vision-casting fundraiser for that.
Perhaps avocational (or professionals, if any) church historians among the commentariat could compare the shenanigans at MBC with some of the more notorious episodes in the history of church councils. I have the impression (very indistinct, admittedly) that some would make the strong-arm tactics at MBC look comparatively tame.
Not justifying MBC; rather suggesting that “there is nothing new under the sun.” “Money” and “Power” are always enticing (thankfully there isn’t yet a “Sex” angle in this story.)
The thought occurs that there may be a connection between the recent post on ‘de-/re-construction’ and current events. Perhaps de- and re-construction (can one call that semper reformanda ?) is ongoingly necessary to avoid something worse.
Perhaps we need a third category to include with “de-/re-construction”.
Perhaps “self-destruction?”
1. As Dee points out, the sheep should have read TWW before hiring Dear Leader.
2. Dear Leader doesn’t realize that these said sheep do not yet have the 1,000 ft stare (see article linked in a comment in last TWW post) so cannot easily manipulate them. Yet.
3. The clear-eyed KNOW donors (sheep, who actually work for a living) pay all the bills, including Dear Leader’s salary. Power. Voice. Choice. (Does someone who earns an honest dollar want to then turn over their earned wages for a lying covert-SBC NDA-loving Dear Leader?)
“pushing critical race theory, revising biblical teaching on sexuality, and aligning with the SBC”
One of these things is not like the others. This sounds like flinging feces at the wall to see what sticks. It seems this pastor is pretty unscrupulous, but perhaps some of his opponents are as well.
We’ve been churchless since shortly after COVID began, but will probably start looking soon. I think we will do our best to avoid churches that have enough goodies to be worth fighting over.
Wild Honey,
This is great. I may steal this line.
Dee I love you work. David Platt is not “an ardent Reformed” anything. David Platt is a woke, social justice guy. He has bought and has become an advocate for Critical Race Theory. I can’t see his heart but it looks like he is “reformed” to achieve something else.
Reformed in the traditional sense meant at least in part to someone who had a high view of scripture and was committed to all of it. David Platt is now committed to being woke and Critical Race Theory. Though I know he may protest.
There is no way that you can make Critical Race Theory compatible with the Bible. It is ridiculous to try. Christ taught that we were all one in Christ Jesus, that there where no Jews or Greeks, male of female. Jesus never said that anyone who was Caucasian was guilty because they were white, which is what the culture is teaching through CRT.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
So true. Do these people ever listen to what they say? Talk about someone with a high view of themselves. Gee
Ava Aaronson,
This says it all…. What I continue to observe, both in “the church”, Big U politics, local, and National Politics, is to act deceptively, loudly yell/bully your side/view of situation, and just keep pounding your way…. Unless the “other side” is just as “devoted to the truth” as “bad actor” is devoted to power, “bad actor” will eventually win….
The only “consolation” is that bad actors eventually self destruct…. But, the “collateral” damage they do can be quite huge….
“MBC was/is a member of the SBC. Platt and friends denied it but I have a screenshot in that post proving they are part of the SBC.”
This pops up on a Google search for McLean Bible Church:
McLean Bible Church is an evangelical, multi-site megachurch with several locations in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. Its largest campus is located in Tysons Corner, Virginia with other sites in Leesburg, Prince William County, Arlington, and Rockville, Maryland (Wikipedia)
Senior pastor(s): David Platt
Denomination: Southern Baptist
Weekly attendance: 10,000+
Status: 501(c)(3)
Founded: 1961
I dislike Platt and have believed for a long time that McLean Bible Church is very unhealthy. But where is the CRT notion coming from? All manner of inflammatory accusations have been lobbed at Platt, including the rumor that he wanted to sell a church property to Muslims to build a mosque.
It seems possible that none of the loud voices are telling the truth.
“The SBC is drooling over such resources and encouraging the takeover of such churches.”
It would be a great prize to capture MBC for the New Calvinist movement! It would be a star in Platt’s crown. From the words of an old hymn:
“Will there be any stars, any stars in my crown
When at evening the sun goeth down?
When I wake with the blest in the mansions of rest,
Will there be any stars in my crown?”
Max,
Thank you, Max. This church also has a very long history of associating itself with the powerful. I’m sure they have purely wanted to lead various politicians and wealthy CEOs to ever greater righteousness. That would explain their panic, now that the numbers are down: it takes a multi-campus throng to bring influential people closer to the Almighty.
/sarc
“So Platt did what any politically motivated pastor would do. He put up his slate of prospective elders again. He then denied some folks the right to vote, claiming that they shouldn’t have voted anyway because they hadn’t been coming to church.” (Dee)
This technique must be in a New Calvinist church takeover playbook somewhere. A young reformer took over a traditional SBC non-Calvinist church in my area. When he advanced a motion for elder-rule polity to replace congregational church governance, the vote failed. So, what did he do? In the months that followed, he recruited New Calvinists from a neighboring church to move their membership and took the issue to a second vote, which passed by a narrow margin. After much weeping and gnashing of teeth, the old members rebelled and left to form another SBC church. The young whippersnapper pastor got his way … the church, all its resources/assets, and elder-rule polity … and a star in his crown for the New Calvinist movement. Jesus wept.
Long before covid reared its ugly head, I watched this sort of take over in definitely non Calvinista Nazarene churches. And again in the SBC in two different states. And one Lutheran church. It is nothing new, just more open and vicious now.
I sometimes “attend” different churches around the country on line during the pandemic. (Yes, it is still DURING it). Interestingly, one I listened to was an AME church somewhere in Indiana. They referred to the sanctuary in the building and the online sanctuary, and had ways for those that preferred or must attend online, from wherever in the world they were, to connect and find fellowship and care.
But several of the SBC churches lately seem to be pushing “Look around you. God has done a marvelous job of making this a church of younger people. Not a gray head in sight this morning. Isn’t this wonderful?” Goes along with a pastor in a Colorado SBC we visited years ago that did not want people to be able to see the senior adult SS class, or to see seniors in the worship service. He went to great lengths to hide them.
So the older faithful members are told basically to go to h e double hockey sticks while sending in their money??
What about treating the older men as fathers and older women as your mother? What about respecting your elders that truly are elders, not appointed elders from the youth group?
Others, both SBC and CotN, have dropped their live stream, or their videos, or their zoom, google meets, etc services. They state “There is now no reason not to be in church.”
UMM, maybe if you are in your 30’s and have the full shot regimen and everyone is masking. And not singing. Otherwise, church is still a risky superspreader event, especially for those over 70.
Friend,
Maybe you didn’t hear about DP talk at T4G.
Maybe you don’t know about one of his fellow pastors
https://capstonereport.com/2021/07/14/mclean-bible-church-pastor-i-want-to-torch-white-people/36613/b
Now that it is out of favor to be a CRT advocate they all deny it. But if you find they advocate it and run in those circles, well we just have to come to the conclusion.
When I was a pastor, I was busy enough with pastoral care, weddings, funerals, studying for sermons, preparing for Bible study, administration, meetings, etc., etc., etc. that I did not have the time to plan church takeovers, write NDAs, try to control church members, and all the things that go along with bein a Neo-Cal pastor.
Wonder what is lacking in their ministeries?
Just like a seventy-something Michael Jackson, plastic surgery completely gone south, standing in his footie pajamas staring at a mirror going “I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! REALLY! I AM! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG!”
Snarl buzzwords.
Disconnect every neuron above the brainstem and wave a Bright Red Murder Flag in front of what’s left.
If this was the 1950s it’d be “COMMUNIST! COMMUNIST! COMMUNIST!”
Welcome to the Two Minutes Hate as morning devotions.
P.S. It’s important to draw a distinction between “CRT” and “Anti-CRT”.
MOOCH-AND-SUCKER SHOW.
With long prayers in fluent Christianese for justification.
Bob Larson, Mighty Spiritual Warrior(TM), said exactly the same thing about himself. Claiming that Satan even wrote nasty messages in the fog on his bathroom mirror (just like that scene from the movie Ghost).
P.S. They’re both talking about the Psychopath Archangel who was the model for Sauron and his First Age master/mentor Morgoth. Why would such a powerful supernatural being spend all his time writing nasty messages on Bob Larson’s mirror and/or making a 17th Century farmer’s cow’s milk curdle?
For years, Mark Dever has held “Weekender” training camps at his DC church for aspiring 9Marksists. Each is sent home with a thick tactical ‘Notebook’. Among other things, it describes how, early in his pastorate Dever got CHBC to accede to his choice of elders, after each man he’d selected lost in a congregational vote.
Check out lowlights from his letter [manipulative screed] to congregants that’s included in the 9Marks Weekender Notebook:
Mark Dever: “Is it arrogant of me to nominate the same five again?…I do not understand this to be a matter of arrogance, but of integrity.”
“Why vote on the same thing again?…Because we need elders…Because there must be a new election, therefore men must again be nominated. But the one [me] who must nominate has not changed…God has led me again to the same people.”
“The Bible no where requires 75%.”
“We must let leaders lead…When I was a member at Eden [Roy Clements’ church, Cambridge, England], I voted with the eldership, unless I had expressly biblical reasons for not doing so.”
“I have certainly been frustrated by not being more trusted”
“Each member of the church should consider if they are making it easier or harder for the staff to do what God has called them here to do.”
“Me leaving…find another pastor…[This is] a confidence vote on my pastorate.”
[insists that members meet individually with him if they intend to vote “no” again]
Dever’s antics worked…he got his way:
(one month later) “Elder nominations passed on second try”
Max on Tue Dec 14, 2021 at 09:19 AM said:
“After much weeping and gnashing of teeth, the old members rebelled and left to form another SBC church. The young whippersnapper pastor got his way … the church, all its resources/assets, and elder-rule polity … and a star in his crown for the New Calvinist movement”
++++++++++++++
to say this infuriates me is an understatement.
the older members are the ones who funded/paid for it all through faithful sacrifice of their hard-won earnings over the years.
and then they’re tricked to give away. it’s like financial fraud.
.
.
i go to my dad’s ‘home group’ and play hymns for them to sing to on the piano because they miss them so much. it means so much to them, they have tears streaming down their faces each time.
elastigirl,
I’m with you here.
Wild Honey,
Thank you for making me laugh.
You guys are on a roll.
Ken A on Tue Dec 14, 2021 at 09:47 AM said:
The link in your comment goes to a 2008 article about Alabama football.
Here’s a quote from an RNS piece from July 20:
Critics say the church’s leadership has become “woke” and has substituted critical race theory and social justice for biblical teaching. Platt and other leaders, they say, have abused their power by violating the church’s constitution.
In response, Platt has claimed that the church is trying to fight off a hostile takeover and that Satan is trying to divide the church.
I see no truth in any of this, just a lot of upsetting, inflammatory accusations. Fairfax County is one of the wealthiest jurisdictions in the United States, and yet poverty and hunger are rising. One would think the members would feel called to minister to the homeless, feed the hungry, and so on. But no: they are called to take sides in a destructive argument about their wealthy, powerful church.
If things look weird, move your dollars to good charities outside of your church. If you do that, it is time to leave. BTDT
I agree. But…not all of them which is what he is implying.
The “reply” option are on the blink again for me.
The threat of Eternal Hell can be quite a motivator.
Think of it as Fire Insurance/Protection Money.
Bridget,
It is Capstone Report. He comments on Alabama Football also. Dee quoted Capstone above a different article though. Sorry if I did something wrong in copying the link.
https://capstonereport.com/2021/07/14/mclean-bible-church-pastor-i-want-to-torch-white-people/36613/
Like I said above, if this were the 1950s he’d be pointing fingers and going “COMMUNIST!”
If this were the 1620s he’d be smelling out the Witches under every bed.
Wokeness is the latest word for Witchcraft.
I’m waiting for the Private Revelation that Platt Eats Children (after sacrificing them for the Adrenochrome).
But that’s Woks Social Justice!
And it’s GAWD’s Money anyway (and Pastor is His Anointed) – ever heard of the word “Corban”?
Discarded Hosts for an Anointed Parasite.
dee,
Exactly…. I am seriously rethinking my “giving”….. I have NO trust in that org that claims it independently evaluates the finances of Christian orgs.. I forget the alphabet soup for it… I have seen enough to no it is a joke.. and, seeing the lawsuit, and response of good old Ravi’s org, they CLEARLY do not respect “givers”.. so fine, nothing from me!
Jeffrey Chalmers,
You are a wise man. Give to another cause. The victims in Kansas, charities for those killed in law enforcement, fire, military. See what your money actually does.
Please keep me in your prayers. My mom is struggling in rehab which is understandable due to her advanced age. I need to go pick up my new rescue-Holly which will take a day, Friday. Todd will post. Then everyone is coming for Christmas. I’m that one in every family who has the gatherings at their house. I will do my best to keep up things on TWW, along with Todd.
Blessings to all of you who have much to do during this season.
Bridget,
It works for many. Have you rebooted your computer recently?
I have an old Lutheran hymnal* that I look through now and again (Concordia 1941).
Stuff you can actually sing, not that ‘new’ crapola that many Lutheran churches now flash onto video monitors in the sanctuary.
*with real time and key signatures
McLean PPP loan (sic):
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/mclean-bible-church-6918747103
“MCLEAN BIBLE CHURCH Vienna, VA
Loan Amount $1,848,800”
“Loan Status: Forgiven”
Transforming into basically a grant, gift, or subsidy just shy of $2 million? How about that
“Where applicants said the money will go:
Payroll $1,386,600
Utilities $462,200”
Almost half a million dollars on utilities. How about that.
That amount adds up to the loan amount, yet:
“Amount Forgiven $1,874,227”
So the amount forgiven (quite the term to be used in this context) is $25,427 more than the loan (or grant) amount? That might be what some consider the church equivalent of pocket change or walking around money, but might others alternately consider that as a tad generous on the rendering side of things, especially given from where that money came?
dee,
Dee, I have just stopped to pray for your mother, and you, and all who are in your lives. I am sorry for this further hardship, and I hope your mother recovers soon.
dee,
Food banks are a good choice these days, as well as domestic violence programs and homeless shelters.
Our church used to have a food pantry. A few years ago this was turned into a supermarket gift card program, much easier for people in need.
Bet Weird Al could make a good one out of that…
I am surprised they didn’t pull a Bob Malm, claim the members who filed suit were “domestic terrorists,” and seek a protective order. But then, even this sorry lot has better ethics and accountability than the Episcopal church.
dee,
Merry Christmas Dee!
Dee said: It works for many. Have you rebooted your computer recently?
I’m on my phone and, yes, have tried rebooting.
Ken A,
I’m not necessarily convinced CRT is a good idea but neither have I encountered anything to suggest it is inherently incompatible with the Bible. Believers who subscribe to it are trying to answer the question within the church, if there is neither Jew nor Greek, why does the church still look like there is? Same with the word woke. This is a blog for people who got “woke” to abusive systems in the church. Imagine the Christian of color, before the word became a derogatory term, who got “woke” and was trying to explain how they were discriminated against, much as we might be trying to explain why a certain church leadership is unhealthy and treated us poorly. Both sound ridiculous to the one who hasn’t experienced it first hand.
It’s happening all over the SBC. The New Calvinists have come in like a flood by stealth and deception to take away what old saints spent a lifetime paying for. They apparently justify such behavior thinking they are restoring the “gospel” that the rest of Christendom lost somewhere along the way (gospel = Calvinism). They will be judged harshly for treating folks this way … taking away their church home, plundering their stuff, changing belief and practice contrary to the real Gospel, setting up authoritarian rule over the pew, subordinating Jesus, enslaving female believers to the “beauty of complementarity”, etc. Nah, there’s nothing about New Calvinism which is of God.
Is that in line with a mega, or just all “miscellaneous”/skim?
(Must keep up with the Copelands and Furtick’s, you know…)
Currently I regularly give to Salvation Army (family tradition; they helped my Dad out when he was an enlisted man in the Pacific during WW2), Covenant House (homeless shelter for teens), FINCA (microloans to Third World peoples), and sometimes local food banks and Habitat for Humanity. And once a year to Caterina’s Club, a local charity that provides regular meals (and housing assistance) for the working poor in my (expensive to live in) area.
Caterina’s Club (https://caterinasclub.org/) is run by “Chef Bruno” (owner of a swanky Italian restaurant in the area), and holds an annual “Pastathon” every December; the latest Pastathon raised almost a million USD plus 50 tons (50,000 kg) of foodstuffs to be put to use in the coming year. Before COVID, I used to donate a car trunk-full of foodstuffs (dried pasta and bulk-size cans of sauce ingredients and seasonings), but with COVID I’ve had to do online cash donations.
As I reflect on this whole post, and Dee’s citing back to her earlier one about the coming “dust up”, I keep think about the infamous video of Pop Al Muehler saying if you are truly ‘spiritual”, or some other, “pious noun”, you will end up at a Neo-Cal church ( or as Dee says, Calvanista)…
Yup, I can not wait to attend a #$&-show church like this one!!! Such NASTY politics is just soooo spiritual… I just love name calling, lawsuits, power struggles, behind the scene maneuvering, etc, etc..
dee,
Praying for your mom, Holly’s adjustment, and your sanity in the midst of holiday chaos/joy.
Oh, you mean this one:
“If you’re a theologically minded, deeply convictional young evangelical, if you’re committed to the gospel and you want to see the nations rejoice in the name of Christ, if you want to see gospel-built and structured and committed churches, your theology is just gonna end up basically being Reformed, basically being something like this New Calvinism or you’re gonna have to invent some other label for what’s just gonna be the same thing. There just are not options out there.” (Al Mohler, President, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)
The other “options out there” Dr. Al represent 90+% Christendom who have rejected the tenets of reformed theology for over 500 years. You, sir, are arrogance in motion to belittle their expressions of faith.
For those unfamiliar with “Pop Al Muehler”, the video Jeffrey refers to can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6lRMMvNCn8&t=8s
GEFS!
This is a bit of a content-free wee post to log my new email address on the system. (I am definitely that Nick Bulbeck, but then, I suppose I would say that, wouldn’t I?) While I’m on, though, I hope all my fellow-Wartburgers are as well as may be.
ION: SpaceSlight tangent here from the Wartburg Science Department, but many Wartburgers will be interested to know that the James Webb Telescope (or JWT) – the long-awaited successor to Hubble – has been fixed to the top of its Ariane V launch vehicle today; launch is scheduled for next Wednesday, 22nd December.
AWWBA, it is hoped that the JWT will obtain evidence of the universe’s earliest stars, formed (of course) just over 6000 years ago. If the JWT performs to spec, it will even be possible to date the stars precisely enough to verify that they are indeed exactly 24 hours older than the oldest fossil plants.
IHTIH
Nick Bulbeck,
Evenin, yer lordship. Message received. 🙂
If you are using Google as your browser, try accessing TWW via another browser. The reply links are not working for me when I use Google, but OK when using my back-up browser (AVG).
I think I figured out the Chrome issue. From the console in developer tools, it looks like it’s not loading the javascript to handle the comments functions because it’s referencing it as HTTP instead of HTTPS. I’m not sure why it doesn’t auto-upgrade the connection to HTTPS.
The error is:
Mixed Content: The page at ‘https://thewartburgwatch.com/2021/12/13/david-platt-and-maclean-bible-church-advancing-the-evil-members-takeover-theory-loses-the-first-round-in-their-legal-battle/#comments’ was loaded over HTTPS, but requested an insecure script ‘http://thewartburgwatch.com/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.js?ver=1.0’. This request has been blocked; the content must be served over HTTPS.
This results in the following console error when you click on the reply links
Uncaught ReferenceError: inlinereply is not defined
at HTMLAnchorElement.onmousedown (VM867 :1765)
marco,
Max,
It’s working again. Instead of refreshing page I closed the site and reopened it anew.
Nick Bulbeck,
I saw a special report on this. It is exciting!
That doesn’t work for me. I’ll just continue to use another browser instead of Google to access TWW.
Nick,
You really should publish an acronym glossary for those of us with less than stellar ‘figuring out’ skills.
well done, you!
I remember when I lived in a small Texas town one summer back in the late 1970s, there was a big hooraw over who would become pastor of the First Baptist Church. There was a LOT of money involved, the pastor would get the princely sum of $25,000 a year! (At that time, average household income in the USA was around $16K.) I’d never seen a church fight, even at a distance, and I was amazed.
marco,
Good points.
I wonder if Dee knows she’s running a “woke” blog here!
That extra $25,427 is the accumulated interest on the loan. Had they not gotten the loan forgiven, they would have been responsible for that money as well.
Yes, that’s helpful. I’ve been waiting for the James Webb space telescope for *ages*, there have been so many delays. One thing people need to keep in mind is that unlike Hubble, the JWST is going to be stationed at Lagrange point 2, which is about a million miles away (really, one million miles away). Why? Because Lagrange points are generally stable places to put a satellite or a telescope, and they don’t have to be adjusted all that often to keep them at that stable point. The drawback is that the JWST has to work out of the box because we can’t send repair missions to fix it, like we did with Hubble. It’s a million miles away. So it’s just got to work.
After it gets there (a month after launch), then it will have to be set up and run through its paces, but I am so looking forward to the first pictures from the JWST. They’re going to be amazing, I’m sure.
Max,
My problem was on phone. It’s working so I’m good for now anyway. 😉
The young whippersnapper New Calvinists miss so much when they run that generation out of church and take their stuff away from them. When they get old, will they weep when they remember big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans? Those old hymns have a way of getting in your soul and sticking there. My daughter has played piano in nursing facilities for Alzheimer patients. She said many of them would sing along with hymns … even in their mental state, they were able to recall the words to hymns.
Finally corrected the spelling of McLean Bible Church. Sorry about that.
Just something else for them to blame on Satan.
Max on Tue Dec 14, 2021 at 09:37 PM said:
“When they get old, will they weep when they remember big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans?”
+++++++++++
‘tcha, No!
ee gads, it’s like being stuck in a pepsi commercial.
There are a few local acronyms that are important at Wartburg, it’s true. (Perhaps Dee or GBTC would consider adding this important feature?)
Here’s a summary:
ION: In Other News
IHTIH: I Hope This Is Helpful
AWWBA: As Wartburgers Will Be Aware
GMFS: Good Morning From Scotland
GAFS: Good Afternoon From Scotland
GEFS: Good Evening From Scotland
BAH!: … actually, this isn’t an acronym.
IHTIH
Nick Bulbeck,
I just type them into a Google search and see what shows up.
TANSTAAFL is my personal fav.
Well this one worked. But another attempt did not. Hmmm.
Says he who mostly checks in here with Firefox.
I DID ask folks to email me about which platforms, browsers, and version they were using when they had a problem. But no one sent me anything. Makes it hard to figure out.
Where there’s money, there are cons, including pulpiteers & their higher ups (their orgs).
Donors are wined & dined & massaged. In turn, the donors lavish the pulpiteers & org leaders. Church becomes the power of money, which has nothing to do with the power of the Holy Spirit.
Among the big donors themselves, there’s Old Money, New Money, and Dirty Money.
Occassionally, the Holy Spirit has actually gifted someone with the gift of giving, or wealth for God’s purpose. A whole different story.
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
In my freshman college philosophy class, that was written on the board on the first day. Our professor, bless him, wanted to be sure that if we didn’t learn anything else at college, we learned There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!
John,
Todd/Dee,
Any updates?
I didn’t notice that you specified email. I posted my info in an earlier thread. Sorry.
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
Chrome and Edge on windows don’t work, Safari on iOS and Chrome on android do.
Edge on windows, Chrome on a Chromebook.
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
I’m running Chrome on a laptop with Windows 10, and have had no problems on TWW. I did have plenty of other tech problems starting a week ago. Discovered that Chrome was out of date, although other updates had been pushed to my laptop, maybe to prepare for Windows 11 (but who knows why some updates are pushed and some are not?). So, one thing to try: update Chrome.
Yes! That’s it!! The best description of life in Church as Entertainment that I’ve seen! Pretty-boy preachers with shallow “sermons”, big screens, laser lights, loud bands, hoochie-coochie “praise & worship” team swaying to the beat of the drum … all drinking Pepsi in tight pants! Makes me want to run to church next Sunday … not.
I have mixed feelings about the use of lawsuits in churches for issues that are not violations of criminal law. However, as I was thinking about this situation, I think that civil suits such as this one are acceptable because of the way these churches are being transformed: the leaders want to adopt a corporate mindset, with the pastor serving as CEO, executive pastor as COO, body of elders as board of directors, etc., but they do not want to be subject to governing laws like corporations (yes, I know churches are non-profit corporations by definition). IOW, when you play with fire, don’t complain when you get burned.
John,
Years ago, when I first started writing, I received some disturbing news about Paul Pressler. The individual who told me about this is now invovled in that whole thing. I cannot mention his name since I assured him confidentialtiy. But I let people know I was receving disturbing information.
The same thing is happening here.I cannot speak unless someone comes forward. So, I am focusing on what we do know. He didn’t get the cake and a big good-bye as far as I know. He was BFFs with lots of people up there and with JD Greear. No one is talking or wishing him well. Weird.
Good point about Merritt. Eventually the truth will be known.
I find this whole lawsuit fascinating. I bet Platt and BFFs never thought people would go through with it.
Friend,
I’ve notified him. I’m sorry about this.
Wild Honey,
Nope- Stan. I am, after all, the daughter of Stan.
Including the Epstein’s Island definition of “Massage”?
Ravi even had the massage parlors in-house!
John,
Ashford seems to have received the “David Nelson” treatment (FWIW, I had interacted with Nelson several times prior to his departure and found him to be a genuine and caring man; I do not have the same feelings about Ashford). I know there was a rumored backstory to Nelson’s departure but am not sure it ever became public.
You always have a soft spot for the music and songs you listened to, knew, and sang in your Twenties. And will remember them the longest.
AN ARIANE?
“THE FRENCH FIRECRACKER” THAT BLOWS UP ON LAUNCH MORE OFTEN THAN ANY OTHER LAUNCH ROCKET?
After the JWT passes that hurdle, it has to unfold and deploy the origami folding puzzle it needed to fit in the fairings. That’s why so many planetary scientists and orbital astronomers are following Space X’s heavy-lift “Starship” development – Space X Starship could launch large payloads like that (up to 100 tons to orbit) without having to fold them up like origami puzzles.
Already anticipated you, Max.
You’re the guy with the concordance in your head – remember all those verses about “Narrow is the Gate of Salvation, Wide is the Path to Destruction”? About The Small Remnant of the Faithful?
The Jack Chick tract with the huge crowd marching into the Lake of Fire while one or two take the tiny side door labeled “God’s Love Plan for The World” and pray The Sinner’s Prayer on their knees before The Cross with The Blood raining on their heads?
“The one in a hundred Predestined to walk the Hard, Grey, Drab, Joyless Path of Salvation.”
— James Michener, Hawaii, backstory of the New England Missionaries to “Owhyhee”
Remember the quote that came up in relation to the Duggars?
“THE MORE PIOUS, THE MORE PORN”?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I wish this were funny…. sigh…
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
I emailed my findings. Sorry it didn’t occur to me there was was a tech support address for the blog.
Thanks
Friend,
Our church ran a very large food bank for years. 50-80 families at monthly distributions. With covid and so many elderly volunteers we had to rethink this. Now it is much smaller, targeted to neediest families and more gift cards. We realized that larger food banks were more efficient with mass distribution, but we were better at loving the special cases that needed more attention. We get lots of calls from social agencies for families that need immediate food assistance and we have the ability to do that quickly with no red tape or qualifying necessary. It is a good model for us.
Loren Haas,
That’s wonderful! I’m glad your church has adapted and continues to help in such loving ways.
(Separately: I’ve never understood why some churches make people fill out forms for a bag of groceries.)
Our church is in a small downtown area. A lot of people stop by needing direct aid or contacts. A network of congregations helps with counseling, staffing the local shelter, etc. If somebody says they need bus fare to get to the clinic or courthouse, they will get a bus pass. If they say they need food, they will get a card to use at the supermarket. The counseling is the deepest part.
Some aspects are anonymous, like the huge effort to buy food and gifts at Christmas. Church members shop for specific items for an anonymous family. Gifts and food are delivered by a small team, so that random members don’t learn that families from school are having trouble feeding their children.
All of this has evolved throughout the pandemic, but it’s still going strong.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Not sure which Ariane 5 config you’re thinking of, as the currently active one has launched 78 times with only its first launch being a failure.
ElonShip’s 9m diameter (or slightly smaller internal diameter, I suppose) does allow for wider satellites on paper, although I don’t know whether ElonShip has a significantly longer second-stage burn, which would be needed to reduce the peak loading below the current typical value of around 4g. You could probably engineer a 6-metre+ mirror to handle that, but it would present its own challenges. AWWBA, the bigliest limitation of the Falcon Heavy is that it has the same size fairing as the Falcon 9. Which is why it couldn’t actually launch a 737 into low earth orbit – just a block of something dense weighing the same as a 737. One reason the Falcon Heavy – while bigly exciting – is just a bit of a white elephant; unless someone wants to launch a really big satellite into geostationary orbit.
Max,
Mohler: “…if you’re committed to the gospel and you want to see the nations rejoice in the name of Christ….Reformed theology….”
So the nations will rejoice that most of them have been eternally predestined to eternal torment in hades for the glory of God?
Or “by the nations” Mohler means the predestined heaven-bound men of the nations can rejoice because the predestined heaven-bound women will finally be eternally submissive. No more annoying unsubmissive prickly feminists anymore. Rejoice!
Like I said.
“Anna Duggar Refused To Let CPS Interview Her Kids About Abuse But Things Might Change Now”
https://littlethings.com/lifestyle/anna-duggar-kids-josh-conviction?pubdate=1639386000000
Since I know that I’m a child of God, I know I will be there, causing grief in the hereafter!
Loren Haas,
It does not surprise me that you are a member of a church with a large heart.
I am not trying to introduce politics into a thread, but after reading the linked piece, I have to ask the Duggars: do you seriously think Pres. Biden has a vendetta against your family? In all honesty, he may only vaguely be aware of the name Duggar and has a bit too much on his plate to worry about Josh’s trial and (necessary) conviction.
Dissociate much?
“Or “by the nations” Mohler means the predestined heaven-bound men of the nations can rejoice because the predestined heaven-bound women will finally be eternally submissive. No more annoying unsubmissive prickly feminists anymore. Rejoice!”
++++++++++++++++++
this is the funniest thing i’ve heard in days. i can’t WAIT to surprise them!
The disturbing bottom-line in that statement for Mohler and the New Calvinists is that you (generic you) are not committed to the gospel if you don’t hold to reformed theology. And he wonders why some corners of Christendom doesn’t like him and his stinkin’ thinkin’ about the eternal souls of men.
Loren Haas,
This is not church-initiated, but our school district (typically pretty affluent) took a survey in Nov. of families who needed help for the holidays and those who could provide help, then developed a sign-up to buy Christmas presents and gift cards (some were even for things like winter coats). Thought it was a great idea, again done anonymously but a great way for people to feel like they were helping neighbors.
As the Church of the Living God should be!
“If I speak with the eloquence of men and of angels, but have no love, I become no more than blaring brass or crashing cymbal … If I dispose of all that I possess but have no love, I achieve precisely nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Phillips)
Things have already changed for Daddy Jim Bob:
“Josh Duggar’s father Jim Bob loses Arkansas state Senate primary after son’s guilty verdict in child porn case”
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/jim-bob-duggar-loses-arkansas-state-senate-primary
This is a good way to involve children. We have tender memories of taking our offspring to the store to help pick out dishes for a family of four, who were moving from the shelter to a small apartment.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thought about that after typing the comment. Despicable.
Absolutely! My youngest (now a teen girl) is an “expert” shopper, so I sent her off to find many of the items! (and when she was with me shopping, “Don’t buy THAT”…)
readingalong,
That’s great! Good for her, and for you as well!
Burwell Stark,
Nelson is still with his backstory. The Ashford situation is interesting. The last thing Dee posted in a comment was “We are receiving some disturbing information.” But no updates from Wartburg as of yet.
A comment like that definitely merits a follow up. If they weren’t able to verify the disturbing information, they owe it to Ashford to share that. If there’s more, just a simple update will work.
John,
Sorry. I just saw Dee’s comment. Thanks for the update, Dee. I wish someone would come forward. All the protection drives me crazy when they would throw small people like me under the bus, roll over me, and then go back in reverse.
John,
As they use to-say in the military, RHIP, rank had its privileges..
as we see time and again in TWW… RHIP is alive and well in the Evangelical, Industrial Complex.. EIC…
A core principle of Graspel(TM) ministry is “contractual obligations for thee, but not for me”
Just from that, I can predict the Duggars’ answer to the question “Who won the 2020 Elections?”
Funny about that.
I attended McLean Bible many years ago when Lon was pastor (and also attended CLC before Josh Harris became pastor. Guess I have good timing!) Anyway, everyone I knew who still attended there has now left because of this conflict. There is also still an older singles’ group, which many people I knew were part of. But the rumor has been that the church is no longer going to support the existence of the group by giving them money for events, etc. Kind of sad since there’s a large population of singles in this area and that’s the one church that has something like that. And I did hear that there was not a proper vote on the elders. The Washington Post article on all of this was interesting.
The church my husband and I are visiting/considering has a weekly food distribution they’ve kept up throughout COVID. First time I visited a service, three different people (out of maybe 30 total in attendance) told me about the distribution. The second time, a different person. My husband assured me that it’s just me, whenever he’s visited, no one has hinted to him.
Just to be clear, I’m not annoyed, just bemused.
“There is also still an older singles’ group, which many people I knew were part of. But the rumor has been that the church is no longer going to support the existence of the group by giving them money for events, etc.”
+++++++++++++
Why???
There must be no money or power in it. No return on investment.
How utterly stupid, short-sighted, uncharitable, nasty, and at least 25 more words like this.
A local megachurch’s new pastor, at the one-year mark, canceled the Traditional Worship Service. Away went the white haired retired people AND his funding. Oops.
Then the old saints need to demand that MBC give them back all their tithes and offerings which they gave during their younger, more prosperous years! I suspect that there are several widows/widowers in the older singles’ group. I guess the New Calvinists in charge at MBC now haven’t run across James 1:27 yet commanding that the old folks be supported … as a demonstration of pure and genuine religion.
I know of two SBC churches in my area that were taken over by the New Calvinists. Some of the older members opted to stay when the new reformation invaded, but huddle together in Bible study groups to try to survive the plundering of the church they paid for. One member I personally know was excommunicated for attending the old saints group, but attending worship services at another church in order to not be under the YRR pastor’s sermons. The New Calvinists will be judged harshly for disrupting non-Calvinist churches and treating the Body of Christ like this.
Best comment I have seen thus far at the bottom of the article: If you exclude the voters from his own family he only got 1% (HT SignFelled346).
Idiot.
By coincidence, I just received a new-n-improved Bible, with Bluetooth AND a virtual reality headset! It has a new translation of a story now called the Prodigal Grampa. After working his whole career at remote client sites, Grampa returns to the family home he built with his own hands. O joy! His son is out front, slaying the fatted calf!
The son turns to Grampa and yells, “You there! Get offa my lawn!”
Are they just clumsily letting you know about their good efforts in the community, or are they spying a married woman and imagining her to be a 24×7 volunteer?
In our experience, visiting new churches can be exhausting. Many places have their own way of “handling” newcomers, as opposed to getting to know them as one might at a PTA meeting, walk for charity, etc. At one place, a man told us not to worry when everybody in the front pew leaned to the left, and then to the right. Their pastor was recovering from vertigo, and they wanted to lean in different directions as a small prank.
Hold the phone. I think I figured out the identity of the woman. Did she work at the Center for Great Commission Studies back when Nelson was provost? I think she was working on her Ph.D., too.
Also, if I am not mistaken, Ashford was director of the center at the time.
I resemble that remark! 🙂
Max on Thu Dec 16, 2021 at 09:55 AM said:
“One member I personally know was excommunicated for attending the old saints group, but attending worship services at another church in order to not be under the YRR pastor’s sermons.”
++++++++++
it’s just sickening & repulsive & many other more extreme words.
but a message for the member you personally know — he/she is under no pastor’s sermons, let alone the pastor himself.
he/she could be sitting in the front row and they would be not be under him or his sermon.
at no time past, present, or future would they be under any pastor or his sermon.
they are over and above the sermon by virtue of their own personal agency and their status as a dignified human being.
Given that many of these entities are functionally for-profit enterprises, run for the benefit of the senior management, perhaps what is needed is a new funding model, in which “members” either purchase equity shares (make sure that these include voting rights proportional to one’s equity interest in the enterprise) or provide secured loans at a fair market interest rate.
This would have the advantage that in order to avoid losing their offices at annual shareholder meetings, the officers would have to manage the enterprise in the interest of the shareholders. And in order to make the interest payments on the loans, the enterprise would have to do something objectively useful in order to generate operating income.
There, fixed it!
… in addition to being non-Prophet organizations
Which is exactly why my friend refused to be indoctrinated with error. He knows who he is in Christ. He has a free-will and exercised it to be done with the Calvinistas.
That’s cuz’ they didn’t get von Braun and his team of German toy-makers in 1945.
Its 6m diameter, but SpaceX has done design studies for a 12m diameter enlargement that could put 800-1000 tons into LEO. All fully reusable.
Noticed that their stair-step offspring are at regular two-year intervals. Like clockwork.
From other sources the CP on Golden Boy Josh’s secret PC partition seems to indicate he was into a particular subset of pedo centering on not just children but INFANTS.
Makes me wonder if Anna’s two-year rhythm cycle was to give Golden Boy Josh a new one when the previous one aged out of his target profile.
P.S. You don’t even see crap like this in Furry Fandom. To paraphrase that Rabbi from Tarsus, Christian Family Values Josh was into something so TWISTED that not even the Goyim have a word for it!