“Every compulsion is put upon writers to become safe, polite, obedient, and sterile.”
-Sinclair Lewis, Letter Declining the Pulitzer Prize, 1926
“Fanaticism can often be a normalized phenomenon, and the unwritten recipe suggests that it starts and ends with absolute certainty. If you are always certain about everything, you might just live in an echo chamber, or there might be a lack of ideological diversity among your sources and friends. Only, there is no size limit to this echo chamber as long as there is consensus: and the bigger the chamber the more solidified the fanaticism, and the more solidified the fanaticism the more the outlier will be seen the liar and the fanatic.”
― Criss Jami, Healology
On November 29, 2021 Sovereign Grace Churches published Mark Prater’s weekly video update. Prater, the Executive Director of Sovereign Grace Churches, is interviewed by Ben Kreps, a pastor in the “family of churches.” Kreps is a shining example of what Sovereign Grace leaders love to see in their underlings – a happy, effervescent man who never questions anything too deeply and is well trained in the art of flattery. Here is Kreps in a 2019 video promoting CJ Mahaney and the joy of partnering with the SGC family.
Below is the video by Prater and Kreps. I will understand if you are unable to get through the full 6 minutes, but the first two minutes should be enough to get the gist of it. Kreps praise of Mahaney’s sermon is effusive. Prater recommends Jerod Mellinger’s talk on the blessings of partnership to all the young men interested in becoming pastors in the SGC family of churches, stating that Mellinger casts a wonderful vision on the benefits of partnership. (I would guess that the endorsement of Mellinger’s Beatific Vision-casting stems at least partially from the fact that he and Prater attend the same church!) The two men then share ideas/suggestions on how to get everyone in their churches to watch these talks by the great servant leaders. Elders who were unable to attend the Pastor’s Conference are encouraged to listen to all the main sessions and the breakout sessions. (That’s a hefty investment of time, but perhaps they can meander over to the local Starbucks and get a cup or two of Joe while listening.)
Here are a few short clips from Jerod Mellinger’s Beatific Vision-casting. It’s about all I can reasonably expect anyone outside the Sovereign Grace echo chamber to sit through.
In this second clip Mellinger states, “There has emerged a deadly cynicism and distrust towards churches, towards denominations and towards every other institution.”
I would challenge the veracity of the last clause of the sentence above, but maybe it’s a case of pastoral license commonly exercised when preaching. Further, I would state the cynicism and distrust towards churches and denominations is not deadly, but healthy, and it has been earned. Need I remind you of the sexual abuse scandals rampant in the Roman Catholic Church, the Southern Baptist Conference and yes, even the little family of churches known as Sovereign Grace Churches?
For those unfamiliar with the Sovereign Grace scandal please read the article titled “The Sex-Abuse Scandal That Devastated a Suburban Megachurch: Inside the rise and fall of Sovereign Grace Ministries.
I would also like to remind those outside the SGC echo chamber, as well as recent converts to the “family of churches” of some other drivel Jerod Mellinger spewed from his bully-pulpit back in 2011. He cautioned his church that reading Brent Detwiler’s blog on the internet (not specifically mentioned by name, but made quite obvious in the context of his message) was worse than looking at porn. (Which raises the question, does Mellinger make this comparison from personal experience?)
Finally, a short video I compiled with clips from Ben Kreps, Mark Prater, Brent Detwiler and Manchester Orchestra. I can’t claim it’s “vision-casting,” but I hope you like it!
1
Ouch. As usual, Todd, you get right to the heart of it.
I’d also say that it’s kind of culty in my mind for Sovereign Grace leaders to be getting everyone on the same page, as it were, by having everyone in their remaining churches listening to these same talks. While it’s not (yet) in the church services, how long is it going to be before a pastor throws up a video on a Sunday morning and says, “Hey, let’s listen to the anointed words of Mark Prater or CJ Mahaney or Jared Mellinger” etc. etc.? (I hope I’m not giving them ideas!)
Reverse sin levelling, which resembles playing the Hitler card, as my old pastor did. Just like the former NPO operatives that gain employment by setting a new one up around their ears, the SGM will always be with us, with their worse than half lies, because i sacredly charged ii utterly depriving others of any agency.
When a pastor is spineless in dealing with violation of children going on in his church, it seems he needs to prop himself up as a godly spiritual leader somehow.
The wheels left the Temple, replaced by flat tires.
All the BFF bro-talk in no way replaces the presence of God in church.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Several churches’ midweek groups employed this so that we were deprived of interaction. I’ve known it done for big chunks of Sunday services too.
To clarify to my comment on former NPO operatives, “just” refers especially to the first half of the following sentence in regard to durability. If a new NPO pudding isn’t overtly sacredly charged, the point about the propagandistic lie of reverse sin levelling, and similar variations, can be put down to worldly / fleshly crassness but is still abuse of others’ ideals.
Look it’s Jared Mellinger posing with 9Mark Dever & his 9Marksism interns in their booth at ‘Hops Grill & Brewery’:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFZNhlDDgC9/
(2016) Mellinger in glasses, between Dever and Anthony Moore[!]
Shame on Big Eva. Shame on Mark Dever, Albert Mohler and Ligon Duncan. An average Nut-Charismatic, money grubbing leader of his personality cult decides to go “Reformed”. They rushed to embrace him. And he was a means to lots of money through T4G. I wonder if that helped? They main streamed this guy. With all his bad theology and charismatic nonsense. He even called himself an “Apostle” of his movement. These guys discernment should have been screaming at them to slow down and keep him at arms length until they found out if his walk backed up his talk. Now they have a much deserved egg all over their face. They want to move on. Yet this will always be there to haunt them. Did they ever really repent?
“well trained in the art of flattery”
He learned it from Mahaney, who is a master of flattery. He used his flattering lips to maneuver into the T4G camp and achieve New Calvinism stardom. An example:
“I’ve seen his (Al Mohler’s) stack of books. If you have a stack of books, I’m saying there’s quite a difference, pretty obvious difference, between your stack and his stack of books. So if you are comforting yourself, ‘I have a stack,’ well you might have a stack, but if we consider the nature and content of your stack as opposed to his stack, well, your stack looks pretty sorry and pathetic.” (C.J. Mahaney)
“Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.” (Luke 6:26)
Nah. When you are always right, what is there to repent of?! When you are at the head of restoring the “gospel” to the church, you can’t waste time examining yourself and repenting! There’s much more to do than getting right with yourself, God and His Kingdom … the NeoCal movement must keep moving. Thus, the beat goes on …
Prepare your church for suffering…They didn’t know it was the pastors who would cause the suffering
The only kind of discernment these guys are capable of is discerning ways to glorify themselves, and to glorify themselves through glorifying one another.
There’s a world of difference between suffering for Jesus and suffering for Mahaney! SGC members need to wake up and smell the gimmick cooking.
OK, ya’ll bear with me and keep in mind my heritage includes Native American. I lived many years of my life in rez country.
SOMEBODY BRING A BAR OF SOAP TO WASH OUT THESE GUYS MOUTHS! Christians have NO BUSINESS “casting visions.” That is NOT on our best practices list. That is idol worship of the worst kind.
STOP IT. (Where have I heard that before, lol?)
Just say “I want us to do xyz” or “I think we should do xyz.”
When you “cast a vision” you are calling on evil powers of the enemies.
Rant over, and you non rez folks return to normal programming. But seriously, this has tanked a lot of good work done over many years. Many Native American seekers walk into a church, hear a vision cast, and immediately reject Christianity as just recycled shamanism.
Casting visions is “power medicine” not belonging to those who follow Christ Jesus.
Choose! Follow Jesus or follow your “vision.”
Big Brother’s Face, ten meters tall on all Telescreens.
With the Thought Police ready and waiting for any hint of Disloyalty.
Because You Can Do No Wrong.
A Righteous enough Cause justifies Any Atrocity Whatsoever.
And what’s more Righteous than being God’s Speshul Pets fighting Satan under every bed?
What would God ever do without them?
Kiss Up, Kick Down.
You are assuming their “visions” are Genuine and Occult Divination instead of a BS/con job citing Cosmic-level Authority as justification.
Anyone can claim they had a Vision or Private Revelation. In my church (RCC) it is the characteristic way to flake out. ESPECIALLY when said Private Revelation is to the Visionary’s personal benefit/advantage.
“WE ARE UNITED BEHIND THE VISIONARY!”
— Sunday School coloring book from Furtick’s Mega.
I just saw Jared in the hallway (had to catch him for our Zoom with CJ)- I don’t see what the problem is! He’s a mirror image of CJ! Such leadership! Such charisma! Such partnership!
If the vision caster is running a con rather than vision casting, they are still messing with evil power, are they not?
“Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6)
The earlier the indoctrination, the better … even if they have to color to capture the vision! Mega-mania and mega-maniacs will try anything!
” …they flatter with their lips but harbor deception in their hearts. May the Lord silence all flattering lips and every boastful tongue—those who say, ‘By our tongues we will prevail; our own lips will defend us — who is lord over us?’
“… the words of the Lord are flawless … You, Lord, will keep the needy safe and will protect us forever from the wicked, who freely strut about when what is vile is honored by the human race.”
-from Psalm 12
I think that people who claim to be “casting visions” for a House of God are evil themselves. In the secular business world, “casting a vision” = plans to make big money.
And, in reference to your comment earlier today ……… If I was sitting in a pew and some preacher started talking about “casting visions”, I would walk out and never go back……. and I am only a teeny-tiny bit Native American.
Why would an evil power need to mess with a con artist? The con artist is already doing the evil one’s work.
Nancy2(akaKevlar),
“I think that people who claim to be “casting visions” for a House of God are evil themselves. In the secular business world, “casting a vision” = plans to make big money.”
The most charitable way to describe casting a vision in church is ‘announce unilateral decisions.’ Do you know of any pastors who cast visions and then announced nobody caught it, so it wasn’t of the Lord?
At least the barker on a carnival midway doesn’t pretend to anything else.
Like my writing partner said about Tatted Todd and the Lakeland Revival:
“I didn’t see the Holy Spirit, I didn’t see any demonic spirits. I saw a con man working an audience.”
P.S. Don’t Over-Spiritualize. People are capable of quite a depth of evil all by themselves.
Does he force himself sexually on his Winsome Wifey while she’s puking her guts from morning sickness? And chuckle as he tells you abut it?
OP: “There has emerged a deadly cynicism and distrust towards churches, towards denominations and towards every other institution.”
—–
I think that if one were to modify “every other” to “many other”, that part of the assertion would be substantially accurate.
What is elided in this remark is that the ‘distrust and cynicism’ has largely been earned by institutions and powerful actors within institutions acting in ways that harm their constituents. This is a widespread phenomenon across many kinds of institutions.
The statement is IMO a good example of ‘victim-blaming’.
——–
Combine 1) the ‘iron law of institutions’ (power-holders within institutions tend to serve their own interests and not the institutional mission) with 2) the reality of ~4% prevalence of sociopathy in the general population and 3) the fact that the prevalence of sociopathy is higher in the upper reaches of hierarchical authority structures, and …
you will get widespread distrust and cynicism toward the institutions.
It may look like a “deadly” development from the perspective of institutional power-holders, but from the perspective of the distrustful cynics, it looks like ‘wisdom’.
A wise man perceives danger and seeks refuge. The simple put up with the toxic leadership of their institutions and suffer for it.
Regarding story alongside, which is cloely connected if we think about it:
“Former SBC President Resigns Seminary Post Over Controversy Involving Gay Son” There are some pretty ugly Christians out there that caused this to happen. https://t.co/CNuf7QeY4V
photo
julieroys.comFormer SBC Pres Resigns Seminary Post in Controversy Involving Gay SonFormer SBC President James Merritt resigned from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary over controversy involving Merritt’s Gay Son.
This is complex. It has a sting in the tail for everyone. The sermon deflected from the eschatology of Holy Spirit providential perseverance: eschatology being the whole of the period to follow Ascension and ongoing now (as Samuel pointed out). The purpose of that is to gain political favour and is the exact same move the fundagelicals make. Jonathan is of course trolling the body theologians by cynically parading his private affairs. James has fallen by the tweet for humouring him in public specifically FOR bad eschatology regarding everyday Providence and Holy Ghost discernment (the task of priests and competents). That is what the fundagelicals should have called them both out for, but they won’t because they are of the same mind. The deliberately staged sex rows of all the denominations are no different.
Time was, eschatology was not a political football: some of us just seemed to believe God would probably help us sometimes somehow – not always conveniently, others were neutral, no row, no controversy. We were given the little used logic to create a priority in argument and presentation that doesn’t deflect: the public need to hear the message of Ascension (and not through twittering) not that of anyone’s titillating details pro OR con. Jesus was master of showing up how (immediately) irrelevant some people’s line was. God says what He is saying by not saying what he is not saying. The punch lines are never in the Bible stories. And this is another of those family firms.
The thought occurs that in many cases, a ‘visionary’ wants the honor that is accorded to the hard-working ‘missionary’, but is not willing to embrace the costs of that kind of life.
Paul had a vision, and it included God showing him ‘how much he must suffer’ for the sake of the Name. And Paul did suffer.
—
We’ve come a long way, baby.
One Sunday a baby was crying during the sermon. The pastor stopped preaching and bellowed, “Take that baby out of here at once!” The young mother struggled to her feet, grabbed her child and her things, and began to leave. While she was still in the sanctuary, the pastor yelled, “And now she’ll use THIS as an excuse never to come to church again!”
Oddly (ahem), I no longer remember anything else about the sermon.
Yes, the mother should have comforted the baby or taken him out sooner, but the preacher used his power to shame her in front of people she knew. He also gave them words to use against her, and to pressure her to return.
That church expected people to attend weekly. The mother could return under a cloud, go to a different church, or take a long break from Sunday worship.
A lot of TWW folks, including me, have been through far worse. Unfortunately, some TWW folks live in places with only a handful of congregations, each one preaching messages of power over the pew, and possibly worse. My area has hundreds of churches. I drive past a half-dozen in the four-mile trip to the church I… well… trust but verify.
The best anyone can do is to evaluate an institution and decide whether and how to participate. Many folks are exhausted and fed up, though. Criminality and abuse have to be confronted. Otherwise, if we don’t have the strength or knowledge to support an institution, opting out might be better than destroying it.
“He doesn’t want to write. He wants to Have Written.”
— said of a local fanboy who was always talking about all the novels he was going to write
Nancy2–agree!
This is a very busy time for us, and we are still asking prayers for a member of our extended family (distant member to us) battling covid. Been sick about two months, in hospitals most of that. Kidneys shot, intestines severely damaged, still waiting to see if the mind recovers completely.
“vision casting”
“Where there is no vision [no revelation of God and His word], the people are unrestrained” (Proverbs 19:18 AMP)
SGC members don’t have to worry about a revelation of God and His Word in their churches, so they can go about being unrestrained all they want to!
Said pastor has no mercy, no compassion, and certainly no human feeling.
He’d do well to exchange the heart of granite in his chest to one of flesh.
Jesus took the babes and blessed them,
Brought to him in days of old;
Fondly in his arms caressed them,
Bade them welcome in his fold;
Warmly welcomed, warmly welcomed
When disciples’ hearts were cold.
— Matthias Loy (1880) —
Is anyone else having problems activating “Reply & quote selected text” and “Reply to this comment” links?
Not today! (Or at least I don’t think so…)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Headless, it doesn’t get any more ‘cultic’ than that! And the coloring book was aimed at children.
I have. But, I usually read comments with the page enlarged —- arrggghhh: can’t copy anything with the page enlarged for 2 or 3 days.
But, I have discovered that if I scale the page back down to regular size, the reply/quote is working okay.
Glad you said something. I though it was my iPad, since a bunch of updates were downloaded a few days ago!
Wouldn’t it be her fault if her vomitting was seductive? “If you only wanted to vomit, why were you wearing THAT?”
Max,
Yes. It’s not working for me on this thread or the end of the last thread.
GBTC, if you are listening in, some of us can’t reply to comments with the links provided.
Sorry if this comes off as rude or condescending.
I have no idea what the word “activating” means. Are you saying you click and nothing happens? If so do you have scripting disabled? Can you explain this better?
Please email me at gbtc@thewartburgwatch.com
I don’t have the blog comments flowing by my screen 24/7.
And for anyone with this issue, if you can please supply me with:
– The device you are using
– Operating system and version
– Browser (and version)
Or as much as you can.
Thank You
GBTC
Galaxy s21 Rev1.0
Operating sys 12;SM-G991U
Chrome 96.0.4664.45
GBTC “Are you saying you click and nothing happens?”
Yes. Just encountered this problem today. Bridget and elastigirl have also experienced this issue today on the TGC article.
OMG! I just almost had an anxiety attack when I scrolled through and saw that picture of CJ and Larry. I attended the TAG meetings when I was in college, and then attended the pre-CLC Gathering of Believers, and they both looked like that. Now I”ll have to watch the videos.
Barf Porn?
What am I saying? Of course there’s gotta be barf porn. Its Rule 34; if soiled adult diapers can be erotic, so can puke. Not enough Brain Bleach in the world…
I agree. Great comment.
Michael in UK,
This is of course before we research which of the many current meanings of the terms gaiety or gayship Merritt Junior or other protagonists intended.
Samuel Conner,
The “leaders” concerned and their copycats all the way down have one sacrament, the institutional hierarchy, and that is highly emotionally charged. They DO want us to disbelieve in the Bible. They DO want to blaspheme those who give up a porn habit. We should have ceased buying into their categories whatsoever. Some of us should document their dishonesty, but we should all offer each other real criteria which are irrelevant to these elements.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
We don’t know what the relevance of sin to the kingdom of God is, because the people who claimed to be concerned about these things deflected us from them. First things first I say, then the grot-feeling points will feel very different.
I went to Duke with Dever, graduating in the same class. I was a scholarship athlete, with zero religious background. My adviser suggested I take religion classes to fulfill humanities requirements (my least favorite field of study). He told me that having read the Bible, I would not be encumbered in being critical of Biblical texts and pointing out tensions or conflicts. My advisor was right; religion courses were a better choice than English classes where the rich prep school kids already had read the books in high school. I found Dever an interesting guy. He was bright, and accordingly took on the extra burden of reconciling his belief with, for example, the obvious conflicts between and among the Gospels – which made sense to me as works of authorship written by men at various points in a timeline. He had an extra weight to carry – it was noticeable. Glad I didn’t have to – I had a utilitarian stance on those classes and wanted to earn high grades, but doing it the right way (athletic scholarship made me paranoid because it could be taken away for any number of reasons, and losing it meant being a fork lift driver back in Chicago). Note that while I was an outlier in these classes and clearly from a different non religious culture (poor, athletically centered – unlike the pastor athlete Mahaney I was a high school and NCAA Div 1 All American), I was respectful of people of faith because in my naïveté I thought they were simply trying to be happy. My close friend has been a 30 year member of CLC and I am disappointed that he never did anything about the excesses and abuses (the 2004 videos treating Mahaney as a god like figure all all one needs to see to know just how off track Sovereign Grace was). In any event, Duke gave me a very good critical education, despite being poor and behind academically, and I am disappointed that my classmate, while obviously educated, displays questionable judgment. And 9 Marks? Excessive and at times abusive? Likely. But a very good business model with a high ROI and no capital requirements. I question the wisdom of churches who subsidize the scheme, but as any student of history can inform (see e.g., WW1), herd mentality can be a powerful force. As a final note, one of my good friends is the pastor at a very vibrant Methodist church and I can’t find a negative word to say about him or his church. SG has earned its demerits.
Willowglen,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
Most outsiders can see the problems with SG and 9Marx much easier than those indoctrinated into the beliefs.
GuyBehindtheCurtain,
Apparently, it was a problem with my Google browser – their latest update must have affected a setting.
I’m using a different browser for this comment (AVG) and the reply links are working.
Without it, there would be no SGC, no 9Marx, no New Calvinism. Herding folks into aberrant faith requires a Pied Piper … Mahaney and Dever have been able to pull it off, but will eventually get kicked off their thrones for good. All counterfeit religion fades into obscurity when it has run its course, done its damage.
Not exactly.
More like “The Institutional Hierarchy WITH THEMSELVES ON TOP – FOREVER”.
“The only goal of Power is POWER. And POWER consists of inflicting maximum suffering upon the Powerless.” — George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Speaking of “counterfeit religion”, the National Socialist German Workers Party took only 13 years (out of a projected 1000) to run its course; look how much damage they managed to do in those 13 years.