Hubble Witnesses Shock Wave of Colliding Gases in Running Man Nebula-Hubble/NASA
As Stephen Hawking said about predictions: “One can’t predict the weather more than a few days in advance.”
Mark Galli wrote a thought-provoking post which was picked up by Baptist News: Is the future of evangelicalism with the Christianity Today ‘elite’ or with the firebrand neo-Calvinists? Here is a direct link to Galli’s original article on his website. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about him.
Galli, a native of California, is a graduate of the University of California at Santa Cruz and holds a M.Div. from Fuller Theological Seminary.[2] He was a Presbyterian pastor for ten years. Subsequently, he changed his denominational affiliation to the Anglican Church in North America.[2] He converted to Catholicism in 2020.[3]
Moving into journalism, he was the associate editor of Leadership and editor of Christian History, a sister publication of Christianity Today.[2] For the next 20 years he worked for Christianity Today in various capacities, including seven years as editor in chief. In October 2019 he announced he would retire effective January 3, 2020.[4]
He wrote books and editorials about the nature of the Evangelical faith, including how belief relates to political activity.[5][6][7] On December 19, 2019, a day after the U.S. House of Representatives voted to file two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, Galli wrote an editorial entitled, “Trump Should Be Removed from Office.”[8] The publication noted that the criticisms of Trump were consistent with the magazine’s approach to the impeachment proceedings of presidents Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.[9]
In 2011, Roger E. Olson, a theologian specializing in Christian ethics, described Galli as, “a serious evangelical scholar with an irenic approach to controversial material”,[10] that being defined as favoring and operating toward peace, moderation, or conciliation.[11]
Some of you may remember when Wade Burleson and I ran afoul of Galli when we criticized Ed Stetzer, an editor at Christianity Today, for allowing James MacDonald to have a platform on CT to defend himself after Stetzer had been gifted a car by MacDonald. I believe that Wade and I were told by Galli that we had violated the commandments for our expressed concern. You can read more about that dustup here.
In general, I have admired Galli. Having served as editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, he could be considered an evangelical elite. However, he probably would deny that title vigorously. In his favor, he called for an investigation of Sovereign Grace Ministries.
According to the Baptist News:
The framework for his argument did not originate with Galli. He was responding to another article published on the website of The American Conservative. That article was not written by well-known evangelical leaders but by two young conservatives, one still a senior in college at a Baptist-related school.
Two types of Christians
The article in The American Conservative seemed to delineate between two types of Christians.
They then contrast two events that recently happened in Nashville at the same time. One was the launch of Christianity Today’s Public Theology Project with a live podcast recording of the Russell Moore Show, with Beth Moore as guest. The other was a three-day conference on “The Politics of Sex” with Idaho pastor Doug Wilson and the Fight Laugh Feast Network, a group of Calvinists that features the teaching of Tom Ascol, Voddie Baucham, Josh Buice and Jared Longshore, among others.
- The authors accuse Russell Moore and Beth Moore of cultural accommodation or liberalism. They would represent elite evangelicalism.
Waters and Posey believe the direction espoused by Moore and Moore “is not simply traditional evangelicalism, but a form of cultural accommodation dressed as convictional religion. The result is a religious respectability that promotes national unity, liberalism, and wokeism under the rhetorical guise of love for neighbor. While Moore and his guest try to straddle the fence, there is little doubt that their biggest support is now coming from those significantly to their left politically.”
2. The authors would then assess Doug Wilson and friends as being defiant Calvinists and seem somewhat enamored by him, carefully overlooking the recent accusation of sexual abuse amongst other problems. (Can I mention Steven Sitler here?)
I believe that these young authors might propose Wilson as a leader for the future. Good night!
Wilson and the Fight Laugh Feast, on the other hand, offer “a refreshingly sophisticated bulwark: a Puritan theology paired with an expectation of resistance. Whether such defiant Calvinist teaching can sufficiently permeate evangelicalism remains an open question, but where it takes root, it will not quickly recede.
Will elite evangelicals, as defined by Galli, lead the faithful into the future?
His answer would be no.
On Galli’s blog he names some groups who fit this definition:
Elite evangelicalism (represented by CT, IVPress, World Vision, Fuller Seminary, and a host of other establishment organizations) is too often “a form of cultural accommodation dressed as convictional religion
Looking at the history of Christianity Today he says:
Letters between first editor Carl Henry and founder Billy Graham suggest the desire to be in essence acceptable fundamentalism: Grounded in conservative theology while gaining the respect of secular academics and other cultural leaders.
I thought this example of how Young Life functioned is helpful in understanding Galli’s argument.
the strategy of Young Life in the 1950s and 1960s. The key was to find or convert one of the “cool kids” (athletes, cheerleaders, class president, etc.) on the high school campus and encourage them to attend the weekly meetings. Get the influencers, it was said, and you’ll increase the number of kids who attend and eventually give their lives to Christ.
He looked at his tenure at Christianity Today.
For the longest time, a thrill went through the office when Christianity Today or evangelicalism, in general, was mentioned in a positive vein by The New York Times or The Atlantic or other such leading, mainstream publications. The feeling in the air was, “We made it. We’re respected.”
He mentioned that many evangelicals in this elite class live to be published in secular magazines yet their writings in these publications do not reach the evangelical masses which, I guess, are not elite evangelicals. In other words, the elite evangelicals are not able to change the minds of the majority of evangelicals. In this respect, I believe he is correct. However, is it possible that publishing in these venues may affect change in the secular domain?
This tendency has only gotten worse, as now the mark of a successful evangelical writer is to get published regularly in the Times, Atlantic, and so forth.
He seems to hint that Christianity Today itself was drifting towards liberalism and uses the fact that six-day creationism was ignored as his proof. Uh oh!
I’m a bit confused by his argument. He seems to indicate that the belief in a literal 6-day creation is anathema to secularists. However, it is also an anathema to many of us within the faith. Galli, who recently converted to Catholicism, must surely be aware that the writings of the Pope and other Catholic leaders accommodate for evolution and ancient earth. It seems he is kicking himself for not publishing more articles on 6-day creationism (as well as complementarianism.) Is he arguing that an elite Christian is one who believes in theistic evolution?
I saw this accommodation dynamic as CT managing editor and then editor in chief. We said, for example, that the magazine did not take a stand in the complementarianism or egalitarianism debate. But we rarely if ever published an article that endorsed complementarianism; we did offer many that assumed egalitarianism in family and church life (not to mention the many women pastors who we published).
Then there was the six-day creation/evolution debate, in which again we said we took no stand. But try to find an article in the last three decades that argued for or assumed six-day creation. And yet we published several pieces that simply assumed a billion-year time span for the history of the earth.
It’s not a coincidence that complementarianism and six-day creation are anathema to secularists, features of a religion out of touch with reality.
Will “idiosyncratic” or firebrand Calvinism (ala Doug Wilson) lead evangelicals into the future?
Nope.
According to Baptist Press and Mark Galli:
But Doug Wilson and his following are a tiny and inconsequential part of the evangelical movement. Recent accusations of sex and wife abuse in Wilson’s Moscow, Idaho, community will only sideline that movement even more.”
They should look at the number of posts that I have written about Wilson through the years. There is no possibility that he can lead evangelical “into the future.” I think that Wilson’s foibles are so well known that Galli and Baptist Press didn’t feel it was worthwhile to outline his problem.
Galli believes it will be The Gospel Coalition that will lead evangelicals into the future!
Dee is in shock. According to Galli:
I’d offer the Gospel Coalition. It is a major force that someday could supplant Christianity Today as the major intellectual voice of conservative Christianity.
…The Gospel Coalition has the finances and, more importantly, a substantive theological foundation to better resist the enticements of the cultural elite. Naturally, as a Catholic, I disagree with some of Calvinism’s distinctives; still one has to admire its architecture and depth, and Calvinists’ stubborn faithfulness to tenets that offend the surrounding culture.
Mark Galli carefully sidestepped the horrors of sexual abuse and domestic violence in many churches, some of whom are members of The Gospel Coalition. Could this be due to the fact that his church group, Catholicism, has a horrific history? He seems to place sexual abuse in the same category as environmental care.
This tendency has only gotten worse, as now the mark of a successful evangelical writer is to get published regularly in the Times, Atlantic, and so forth. What’s interesting about such pieces is that (a) such writers make a point that affirms the view of the secular publication (on topics like environmental care, racial injustice, sexual abuse, etc.
I have been writing about the problems with The Gospel Coalition for years. Let’s look at a few of my reasons why The Gospel Coalition is in no shape to lead evangelicals into the future.
- TGC has consistently supported individuals and groups who are thought by some to be abusive: Mark Driscoll, CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries, Matt Chandler, Doug Wilson, etc.
- TGC has supported 9 Marks which has invented membership rules and covenants that have caused many people pain. Chruch covenants have been misused to bring unconscionable pain to many.
- TGC has supported firebrand preachers like Doug Wilson, carefully overlooking the abuses of that group.
- Calvinists, of the young restless and reformed crowd movement, are known for their hyperauthoritarianism.
- They have their celebrities. Can anyone forget young men running to get John Piper. to autograph their Bibles
- John Piper…women can’t be police officers, can’t be in the military, and should never defend themselves when there are men like John Piper present to take out the bad guys.
Is there a fourth option?
In the meantime, I think we have a problem. What is the name of a 4th group who might be able to lead evangelicals. I can think of many individual names but cannot think of one defining movement.
So much to say yet this post is long enough. Would you all list reasons why you think The Gospel Coalition will not lead the evangelicals into the future? Is there a fourth group that could lead evangelicals? We need to think hard or we will be stuck with stupid church covenants.
First?
I’d offer the Gospel Coalition. It is a major force that someday could supplant Christianity Today as the major intellectual voice of conservative Christianity.
???? Intellectual???
“Is there a fourth group that could lead evangelicals?”
Yes. It’s being formed by God in obscurity at the present time. It’s being birthed by a stirring of the Spirit for authentic Christianity to rise up in America. It will not be a movement of men, but a genuine move of God. Its leaders will be unknown, until the time of their showing forth. They will not seek platforms, but will be given them by the hand of God. Truth and nothing but the Truth will prevail. America will not experience it until 2 Chronicles 7:14 is fulfilled. It may be the last Great Awakening. I may not be alive to witness it.
Max,
Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.
Wouldn’t this be wonderful?
As I read, a key issue was to figure out what Galli means by “leading” evangelicals. After a couple passes I think he is using the word with two senses. One, to have a spotlight and visible position among. Second, to shape and form the masses of.
The first can be achieved by anyone sufficiently lucky who is willing to just read the polls and speak out for whatever the masses already favor. But such people are ultimately meaningless, despite the great attention paid to them in the media and politics.
In the second sense he is right that real leaders will have to have “some intellectual and psychological backbone”. Only those with convictions can change the conviction of others. To be recognized as a leader their influence must be wide.
I think the fourth option is quite clearly visible. One strong characteristic of evangelicals is reading the scripture and letting it form them. So the authors of the scripture are and will remain the real leaders of evangelicalism. But they aren’t available to invite as the speaker for a conference, be the subject of an interview, or write an article for a magazine. So Mark (and his heirs) won’t recognize that they are the leaders.
“Who will lead the faithful into the future?”
I think Mark Galli et al. are asking the wrong question.
“Jesus called them [the 10 disciples who were indignant that they hadn’t thought to ask to sit at his right and left hands in his kingdom] together and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. NOT SO WITH YOU. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.'” (Matthew 20:25-28, emphasis added)
Just a reminder, but the Savior evangelicals (purportedly) follow lived and died in obscurity. Without asking for $169 of my hard-earned money to attend a SIMULCAST version of his women’s conference. (https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/tgcw22/)
In the past few months, I’ve attended (virtually) both an ADHD and an Autism conference. Both offered the option to attend free up front, no questions asked, because they want the information to be accessible to anyone, regardless of income. Both were put on by very decidedly secular organizations. But won’t lie, both displayed a whole lot more Christlikeness than what’s frequently on display at The Gospel Coalition.
My husband and I have been (slowly) looking for a new church for over a year. So far, the front runner is a tiny, non-denominational church that’s been in the community for decades and that has been without a pastor since right before covid hit. That’s what I call serving in obscurity, and I think it’s those kinds of churches that will stand the test of time.
Because “lead” isn’t the right question. “Surviving with their integrity intact” is.
Well said.
It’s a business network masquerading as churches. So, as a business it succeeds. As church, not so much.
TGC churches in our neck of the woods are the most successful churches in a business sense. They have the best look, at a Sunday morning glance.
Jesus leads the Church, the Body of Christ, with Good Samaritans stopping to help (not a good investment; sunk cost) while the religious walk (or run) on by minding their own business. Business.
If there is a ‘fourth’ group, I think it will be the ‘servants’ of the Church who are not afraid to stop and help someone in trouble or to reach out to help those who are ‘different’ from themselves and who live on ‘the margins’ where so many live today and are more than a little bit lost and in need of a shepherd.
I loved what Max wrote, this: ” It’s being birthed by a stirring of the Spirit for authentic Christianity to rise up in America.”
Because THIS group will counter the terrible damage of the ones who say that there are ‘unsavables’ for whom ‘christians’ need not show any empathy or concern. There has always been among the intensely self-righteous a dearth of humility before the Lord and a wealth of contempt for ‘the others’. The new teaching of ‘the sin of empathy’ attempts to legitimize this result of the sin of pride.
And so it will be that many who currently view themselves as ‘the saved’ may be challenged to look out upon whom they consider ‘the lost’ without having the compassion that Our Lord felt for those without a shepherd.
In short, it sounds like the beginning of an ‘anti-gospel’ where ‘the sin’ has engulfed the ‘sinner’ without hope for redemption in this world; that it was wrong of Our Lord to look out with compassion upon those who seemed lost and troubled and had no shepherd. (?)
Is the new extreme politics in process of giving birth to an anti-gospel?
If true, the evangelical community in order to survive as ‘Christian’ will have a great need to return to the Lord Who came to save the ‘lost’; the Lord Whose heart was filled with compassion for the ones without a shepherd.
WONDERFUL! Both close to my heart since HEALING PRAYERS (pre fad days) (it was through Don Double and one of his camp guests talking about the Seven Wounds of Christ) led to me finding out I have these. I love the people with these. It’s not a bad burden on the people of Jesus!
“Mark Galli: Will Elite Evangelicals, Firebrand Neo Calvinists or The Gospel Coalition Leads Evangelicals Into the Future? I Sure Hope There’s a Fourth Option.”
+++++++++++++
gah
well, i don’t need a leader.
but understanding that leaders naturally form when multiple people get together (just like on Thanksgiving Day), they essentially make sure the trash is taken out and the lights are turned off. (aside from eating last, of course)
seems to me Mark Galli, etc. define leaders as endued with power to tell people what to think.
i feel sick. (like when i first smelled formaldehyde in 8th grade)
Wild Honey,
“Without asking for $169 of my hard-earned money to attend a SIMULCAST version of his women’s conference. (https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/tgcw22/)”
++++++++++++++++
a simulcast?? pathetic
Lead them where? If into obscurity and irrelevance, TGC is a good option. I get the feeling that the wheels of TGC could easily fall off and that TGC is not as strong as they project. They don’t seem to have the energy they once had. The fact that T4G is shutting down could mean TGC is not far behind.
1 – Galli is posing as having a broad view and is also offering himself to highest bidders (in whatever currency) within his new denomination (and I know about several of those).
2 – Galli and others should stop thinking in terms of blocs. I am no longer here to be part of someone else’s manoeuvres: been there and had enough of it.
3 – I agree, we’ll be unknown, and diverse looking. We’ll be praying, and we’ll find out how the economy in God’s Kingdom is about trading the gifts among each other. Newcomers need to not be robbed by anything less.
4 – TGC thinks it is a loose umbrella but it is enforcing a narrow range of shallow doctrines. These don’t include prayer in any form (the RCC led the way to abolishing prayer in 1959, and brought in body theology as a counterpart of Wilhelm Reich’s obsessions) (incidentally Nietzsche was protesting against a religion hijacked by Bismarck, Wagner and Kaiser Bill).
5 – Don Carson published a tract against superapostles, From Triumphalism to Maturity (I can’t recall how prescriptive it was to small christians though) and a moderately informative if patchy cultural commentary, The Gagging of God. I am surprised that such a middle of the road author got mixed up in TGC.
6 – The 2017 TGC publication, Our secular age: 10 years of reading & applying C Taylor, ed C Hansen, is a curate’s egg like document. I find it gives valuable and interesting clues about points Taylor made (though Taylor had commented on the social scene before, he published his OSA simultaneously with Hansen’s YRR) (I often pre-evaluate my future reading through secondary reading). There are quite good if very sketchy contributions on belief, a mixed bag on liturgy and preaching, an excellent essay on the traditional medical calling (a person to be there when we suffer). Bruce Ashford on “public life” a.k.a dominionism and Brett McCracken on church shopping have got it particularly wrong IMO.
7 – Note “Public Theology” a.k.a dominionism has moved effortlessly into the market gap prepared for it by apologetism (Marjie’s * designer scandal, VP Pence’s contribution like a brass knob, or a cinnamon sprinkle, was timed impeccably). It is based on twisting of some Dutch reform believers of about 120 years ago. The glossy publication from Cambridge (change from Oxford haha) pulls punches. But the Kirby Laing website IS worth watching: I found out about Esther Lightcap Meek through it.
8 – Galli has done the masterly thing he always did, singling out one or two fashionable villains as a way of rehabilitating the majority of equally bad ones: his new controllers (many of whom I know) will be delighted with his skill.
9 – IMO it is the refusal of ordinary christians to employ degrees of inference whether in science or policy or theology, that has sunk the faith and the world as it has done. If you employ degrees of inference, the conspiracy theory theorists accuse you of being a conspiracy theory theory conspiracy participant / theorist. They would rather watch Pat Robertson on the telly.
10 – I fear TGC / SBC / New Wine / Luther Pendragon aren’t just a dwindling handful saving face in their own eyes, but will sadly carry some with them.
{ * Marjie could have told the shallow thinking Ravi, 8 or 10 years ago he’d got to drop out then }
Great to see you about! You were my favourite commenter when I was first at Dee’s.
Galli’s balloon is probably the cue to a rebrand, to please exactly us. Parts of New Frontiers and some of the many AoG clones may be on board.
nice graphic representation of the entanglements among the theobros…
https://twitter.com/JosiahHawthorne/status/1456954525374427141
AMEN!!
Too many Christians don’t get this, so they don’t read Scripture themselves, asking the Holy Spirit to teach them Truth as they read from those inspired writings. We get in trouble when we depend on mere men to teach us … we get caught up in movements and aberrant theology, with little discernment to sort out the genuine from the counterfeit.
Yep, the American church has had many illegitimate leaders of that sort. “Tell me which way you want to go and I’ll get out in front to lead” is not anointed leadership. This approach has led to the success of seeker-friendly ministers and ministries such as Bill Hybels and his Willow Creek model for doing church. But, of course, it has nothing to do with hearing God and living in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth in the here and now.
Mark Galli and Rod Dreher, editor of The American Conservative, are both ambitious members of the Chattering Class. Naturally, as they look around the landscape, they seek out more Chatterers to “lead” Christians in the direction of ever more Chat. That’s just their disposition, their skill set, and their way of earning a living.
In their quest for “leadership,” they seem to be focusing on groups that have what appears to be a substantial structure, a significant media platform, and a solid money-making base. However, does current prominence equal “leadership”? Leading toward what goal? By what criteria would “leadership” “success” be evaluated?
In summary, this situation has a very “inside baseball” vibe. People who consider themselves “leaders” are looking for “leaders” like themselves, mainly because writing about this stuff is their occupation.
Indeed! But it will only come on the other side of “My People” doing what is written in 2 Chronicles 7:14. Unfortunately, I don’t see much movement in that direction. I guess things haven’t become desperate enough in America yet for God’s people to humble themselves, pray, repent and seek God’s face.
Whatever happened to “Freely you have received; freely give”?! (Matthew 10:8). If a minister truly has a word from God to share to others, he will release it freely just as they received it. A genuine message from the Lord has a way of getting to His people without charging for it. Simulcasts and conferences are the stuff of the Christian Industrial Complex, not necessarily the Kingdom of God.
There’s no doubt in my mind that “the Graspel” (pastoral theology dressed as ‘gospel’ but that defies Paul’s charge in Phil 2, that grasps pastoral equality with Christ but refuses to follow Christ’s kenotic example), has a ‘bright’ future. TGC, IMO a leading proponent of Graspel theology, could very well be a power in this future. It’s simply too appealing to people who want to be ‘lords’ over others, and many church-like assemblies, call them “graspel churches”, will continue to provide opportunity for this.
—
A future of evangelicalism that I have, since a few years before my departure into the ‘wilderness’, thought might eventuate is — continued political activism coupled with resistance to important developments in science, that would ‘work out’ in ways that were harmful to public safety. I thought this process would take decades and that the ‘public safety’ issues would relate to climate disruption. I thought that if the movement remained politically powerful and if that power were used in ways that interfered with needed action to avoid or mitigate real world problems, that could lead to public perception of the movement as a menace to the world, perhaps leading to action to suppress it. This, of course, would be interpreted as the fulfillment of certain passages in Revelation, which would lead to further intransigence, rinse and repeat.
Then the CV pandemic began, which may accelerate the process (though, in fairness, IMO the public health authorities have bungled pandemic response in ways that are arguably as bad as some of the least public-spirited responses that have emerged from within the Ev movement.)
—
Is there a path forward for the Ev movement?; are there identifiable leaders already pointing the way?
I very much like the work of New Testament scholars like NT Wright. Wright’s portrait of Jesus in “Jesus and the Victory of God” looks more plausible to me than the conventional conception of Jesus as a kind of 1st century version of Billy Graham. Theology, and specifically Christology, do have implications for ‘how the churches think about themselves and how they live’, and a ‘modern reformation’ along the lines of what I think NTW is arguing for might provide a path into the future for the Evangelical movement.
This comment is not to personally “attack” Mr. Galli, as it is to express my extreme frustration at, what I think, is a most accurate description of the “liberal vs conservative” tension in evangelicalism.
Why does everything have to be reduced to a simple “binary” “conflict”. Since when is studying Physics of the G$d created Universe have to turn into a “conservative” 6 literal days in contrast to liberal billions of years?
Since when does reading the scriptures give examples of women in leadership, and the NT verses stating men in leadership have to reduce to a “binary” liberal/conservative fight!
I could go on, but I think WE have allowed leaders that want to “conquer and divide” the pew peons into two different “camps” so they can have their followers…
I know I was “trained” to think like that by my fundy leaders, and I clearly see leaders at BIG U bullying anyone that wants to question their latest fade political cause..
Talking heads. Politics, religion, & what have you.
As long as they are not controlled by a prominent family who decides everything from color of the carpet to color of the preacher, those are usually safe. You can usually pick out local church rulers – they will be the first to greet you and ask who you are, where did you come from, what are you looking for, etc. They typically serve as chief elder, chairman of the pastor search committee, Sunday School director, and other high offices in the church. However, if they are genuine, smaller places and slower paces can be healthy to the soul. Less is better than mega if God is in the house. Non-denominational can be a good thing given Godly leadership – no hierarchy to influence what they preach and teach.
Which is the true leader?
If this happens, it would be a good sign that New Calvinism has run its course. I’m already seeing books by reformed icons show up at yard sales, another good sign.
TGC is in no position to become the leader of the worldwide evangelical movement, partly because of its failing attempts to be culturally relevant, redefinition of the Gospel and the Church, and partly because of diminishing income. TGC Australia has launched an appeal for its website which will cease operations in 2022 unless funds are forthcoming. (It had a similar appeal last year). In the USA their income amounted to $3.25 million in 2020 and about a tenth of that went on worldwide support. Only about 100 churches in the UK, 13 in Ireland and a few dozen in Europe are featured in their church directory so their reach is limited.
Priceless! … and accurate, IMO
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!”
Talking, writing, etc. They have things to say that they think you need to hear.
The driver of the Christian Industrial Complex
If and when the authority and influence of Jesus is restored to the American church, we will see the next group of evangelical leaders emerge from the wilderness.
“If this teaching or movement is merely human it will collapse of its own accord” (Acts 5:38).
Talking, writing, etc. … without anything to say, IMO.
Max,
They have audiences. As with all “opinion journalism,” there might be something a reader finds edifying, but it’s hard to conceive of any of it as essential.
I think the main point is that we – including myself – are easily distracted!
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
I read this before I went to bed last night. I started giggling and couldn’t sleep!
May this be true!
Good comment.
Interesting comment.
My friend David Fitch would offer evangelical Anabaptism as a fourth way.
Great information. I think we need to write about this.
Funny you should mention that. I thought a bit about that yesterday in regards to a rise in Arminianism. Many people are tired of the snotty attitude of the YRR members of TGC.
elastigirl,
Well said!
Calvinism amounts to theological nihilism. That is why it always dies out. Max is right.
The problem with most all of the leaders is that they have very little to no understanding of what a leader is according to scripture. So, one of these leaders telling us who will be leading Evangelicals in the future is comically sad.
I want to both laugh and cry.
“In the midst of the War
He came out of the East
With the face of an Angel
And the heart of a Beast…”
— Larry Norman, “Six Sixty Six”
“There Can Be Only One.”
— HIghlander
Not when you’re a survivor of The Gospel of Hal Lindsay and Jack Chick.
Except in his own mind.
That HAS been a traditional Litmus Test of your Salvation.
https://religionnews.com/2020/09/10/mark-galli-former-christianity-today-editor-and-trump-critic-to-be-confirmed-a-catholic/
This is the perspective that Galli reportedly shared when explaining his recent change:
“One thing I like about both Orthodoxy and Catholicism is that you have to do these things, whether you like it or not, whether you’re in the mood or not, sometimes whether you believe or not. You just have to plow ahead. I want that.”
“I will not do anything unless someone comes along and says, ‘You need to do this. This is really important.” (This is after he talked about basically having to do something “sometimes whether you believe it or not”).
Maybe a stint in the army was what he was looking for, as they will tell him to do things all day long?
Random thoughts: Max is already one of the leaders of the new church. Interesting to see where this is going. And news flash: The old leader’s mentioned–the new Calvinist dudebros–are not even a blip in real Calvinism, much less evangelicalism. The real Calvinists around here refer to them as “those guys? Wanna be Calvinists without clue what Calvinism really is.”
We will be fine without them.
Whether you believe or not?!! Cults look for followers with this sort of attitude! He would make a perfect New Calvinist!
New Calvinism, if left unchecked, will lead to antinomianism. Some of its adherents have already made it there (e.g., Tullian Tchividjian) believing that “grace” has released them from the obligations of moral law.
Sorry, Dee. You’re too late. The Gospel Coalition has already taken over. Look at this annual meeting of ETS (Evangelical Theological Society). It used to be straight-up Evangelical scholars. (In fact, I was once a member.) And it used to be coordinated with SBL (Society for Biblical Literature) and AAR (American Academy of Religion) so that scholars could attend all three. No longer. It now looks like it has been taken over by TGA.
Annual Meeting at a Glance
73rd Annual Meeting
Tuesday, November 16th to Thursday, November 18th, 2021
The ETS Annual Meeting will take place at the Fort Worth Convention Center and the Omni Hotel in Fort Worth, TX.
The Program Theme
“Wealth and Poverty”
Key Information
Program Chair
D. A. Carson
(Trinity Evangelical Divinity School / The Gospel Coalition)
Presidential Address
R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
(The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)
And don’t forget the extreme arrogance of YRR leaders! IMO, Christendom will eventually grow weary of the aggressive and militant NeoCal movement and its bad-boy elite, and will begin to question the underlying theological driver of the mess they have caused. When it reaches the tipping point, “a rise in Arminianism” may very well occur. Perhaps, it was … predestined.
When you (generic you) really think about it, it’s just six integers with a measuring system imposed on them.
Ruth Tucker,
Whew! You don’t get any more bad-boy NeoCal than Carson and Mohler! Looks like the Evangelical Theological Society has drifted greatly off course to put these guys on the platform. When ETS didn’t knock down NeoCal’s “Eternal Subordination of the Son” heresy, I knew they no longer had sufficient theological influence to deter the New Calvinist movement.
Yes, we need to keep our eye on the prize (Philippians 3:14).
I don’t know “who” the fourth option may be to lead Evangelicals, but there are some badly needed attributes to be found in whomever arises:
1. Humility – someone who is less important about themselves with a genuine interest in others.
2. Servanthood – less about “lofty words from the pulpit” and more about being “with” others.
3. Sees the power of the Gospel as the primary means of change – not political parties or the voting booth.
4. Is less about everyone believing what they believe to be “right”, but encouraging everyone to become seekers of truth.
5. Builds on the common beliefs of all the faithful rather than calling out those who do not agree with them.
6. Has a sense of humor 🙂
7. Understands the pain of others – because they have been keen students of their own pain . . .
I guess the real question is whether American Christians will repent of their idolatry of Christian celebrity and develop a healthy suspicion of all who hold positions of influence and power.
Oh, dear. I wasn’t trying to be “interesting”! It was sort of a sociological observation. If one is a journalist who thinks pretty darn highly of himself, and one is looking around for “leadership” in any area of society, the most natural thing is find that the “leaders” are going to be people a lot like yourself with a similar approach – “Write articles and go to conferences.” – to life’s issues.
you are not far from … nakedcapitalism.com
—
just sayin’
I look forward to decrying the excesses of the New Armenians in about 15 years.
Do you mean something like charging $169 to attend a SIMULCAST version of a women’s conference???
Ugh. My apologies to all from Armenia. ‘New Arminianists’ or perhaps ‘NeoArms’ would have been better.
And Mohler’s Little Playgroup of Mohler clones.
“Before that can happen, make sure WE are the ones who say what is legal and what is not.”
— L Ron Hubbard, founder/leader of Scientology
Yes, that would be a better descriptor if/when an Armenian uprising occurs. Within every group, there are the odd-ball excesses. I don’t think the Wartburgers in general are down on “classical” Calvinists. I personally have known many “Old” Calvinists in my lifetime, even counting some as friends. I have found them civil in their discourse and respectful of other expressions of faith. The “New” Calvinists, on the other hand, have disrupted other expressions of faith with their one-true-gospel militant takeover of non-Calvinist congregations by stealth and deception. The Driscolites, Piperites, Mohlerites, and other such ites have left an ugly stain on the American church. Who knows what kind of ruckus the “NeoArms” will cause! It could be ugly!
Hmmm…perhaps I’m either simple, naïve or maybe even BOTH, but I have always been of the mindset that we were to be lead by the Holy Spirit and not by mere men or institutions! When Jesus was getting ready to die, this is what He tells His disciples (and us!):
“But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”
I don’t require some movement or scholar to ‘lead’ me. The Holy Spirit is quite sufficient to do that, thankyouverymuch!
The American church needs more naivety like that! If you drop the name “Holy Spirit” in most churches, folks look at you like it’s something the pentecostals get on them and they don’t want any part of it! Most pewsitters would quote Scripture without knowing it “We don’t know what you mean. What is the Holy Spirit?” (Acts 19:2). The Holy Spirit as teacher-leader is a foreign thought to most American churchgoers, I would dare say.
Max,
And that’s exactly why the American church is in the shape it’s in!
When you think about it, the American church has largely relegated the Holy Spirit to the back pew and stripped Jesus from His authority and influence over the Body of Christ! All we are left with is whatever we can come up with to do church without God. It’s no wonder that mere men are having a heyday with what’s left of the church.
I hope the “Fourth Option” includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Now, there’s a group that could effectively lead the evangelicals out of the valley! Lord knows that the other options don’t have much to do with them.
Max, I found this out when I decided to investigate my grandmother’s denomination. There seemed to be an understanding of ‘God’ only as ‘the Father’. One commentator said that Jesus was not God but was ‘only’ the Son of God, and there seemed no mention of the Holy Spirit as God.
It looked as though there was no formed concept of the trinitarian God as I knew it in the orthodox theological sense of the term.
Was it the absence of a ‘catechism’ or the lack of some kind of ‘tradition’ that corresponded to mainstream orthodox Christian theology? I don’t know. But I sensed that the doctrine of the Holy Trinity was ‘shaky’ at best, or absent in some cases. Yes, I saw it also. I didn’t understand the reason(s) for this then. Truth be told, I still don’t ‘get it’ that something so basically orthodox ‘faded’ from a major Christian denomination’s teachings. (?)
Fun fact: Jacob Arminius and his followers were Dutch Reformed, which puts Arminianism under the reformed umbrella.
Max,
I’m currently re-reading the Puritan Richard Baxter’s “A Christian Directory” and he says this in a section entitled ‘Directions for Learning of Christ as our Teacher’ –
“As Christ is the principal Teacher without, and ministers are but under him; so the Spirit is the principal teacher within us, and conscience is but under the Spirit, being excited and informed by it. Those that learn only of Scriptures and ministers, (by hearing or reading,) may become men of learning and great ability, though they hearken not to the sanctifying teachings of the Spirit, or to their consciences. But it is only those that hearken first to the Scriptures and ministers, and next to the Spirit of God, and to their consciences, that have an inward, sanctifying, saving knowledge, and are they that are said to be taught of God.”
As in so many things, the New Calvinists show the paucity of their thought and shallowness of their theology.
David Zahl and Mockingbird?
Lowlandseer,
Agreed! Great quote!!
Ken F (aka Tweed),
All Protestants in the 16th century, be they Calvinist or Arminian in belief and practice, were “reformed.”
Background on the young couple whose strange article on the future of Evangelicalism [= it’s the ‘Beth Moore types'(bad) versus the ‘Doug Wilson types'(good)] prompted Galli’s correction that it’s actually The Gospel Coalition who are replacing the Christianity Today crowd at the top of the Evangelical heap:
JACKSON WATERS, byline: “a graduating senior from Union University”. Yes, and that is a Tennessee Baptist school, but take a look at his bio at the ‘Theopolis Institute’:
numbered page 10, p. 12 of pdf
https://theopolisinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TI_MinistryReport20_v1.pdf
Theopolis Institute
Junior Fellows, 2021-2022
“…..
Jack Waters is a senior at Union University in Jackson, TN. He attends Christ the King Anglica [sic] (ACNA).”
…”
[this is Douglas Wilson’s associate Peter Leithart’s outfit in Birmingham AL]
Note the Junior Fellows mostly hail from Acts29, CREC, ACNA churches.
Emma Posey, byline “the coalitions manager of American Moment”. [she’s a 2021 grad of Lee University TN]
Posey’s described as a “fan” of Douglas Wilson, she’s trekked to Moscow ID to interview him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErrrUoV9TCk
Her podcast co-host and colleague at American Moment, Nick Solheim, finishes up their eight-minute introduction to the interview saying:
“Aside from just having this episode, you know, with Pastor Wilson, we also had a great time gallivanting around Moscow, Idaho…I brought my wife with me, uh, because I thought, um, she would enjoy it. And EMMA BROUGHT HER FIANCE JACK, so we just had a, had a good time in Moscow. We appreciate their, uh, generosity, and so, uh, with that we will now go to Pastor Douglas Wilson…”
Yes, Jackson Waters and Emma Posey are betrothed.
There’s other stuff, but I think the preceding is enough to understand why their article so oddly focused on Douglas Wilson.
I disagree with Baxter on where the minister is placed. Ministers should come at the end of the list, after the conscience.
Yes. I missed that when I read the quote … “hearken first to the Scriptures and ministers, and next to the Spirit of God.” TWW reports daily on believers who have drifted off course by listening first to “ministers” who were not legitimate ministers of God at all. Always (always!) listen to the Spirit of God first. Always (always!) … test the spirits by the Holy Spirit to see if they be from God (1 John 4:1-6).
In far too many corners of Christendom, “priesthood of the believer” and “soul competency” have been pushed out of the narrative. These are essential doctrines of faith which have been diminished by the theologies of men … New Calvinism has essentially stripped core essentials from the life of the church. Every believer has the capacity, by the Holy Spirit, to hear God, to understand His ways, and to do His will … without every jot and tittle filtered through a man in the pulpit. Hear God first!!
Yeah, the question implies that Evangelicals are a prize to be won, a homogeneous group that can be assigned/attracted to one leader, and that this is somehow inevitable or beneficial.
Our country is suffering. Maybe the Evangelicals will dissipate, turning their attention to their own crying needs, instead of spending Sunday morning at the mandatory show.
Which is why he is the perfect Jansenist and Jesuit already. And didn’t he whitewash the figurehead of RZIM, who besides the dodgy CV had misled the public re the Book of Daniel – as found out by agnostics.
In the “bad days” we RC believed as little as we liked and did as little as we liked. The exceptions were Ireland, USA, Australia and the “public schools” (prestigious fee paying mainly boarding schools) and abbey schools where just like their C of E counterparts lots of boys got molested (to assist with their compliance as elite members).
Under JP II the RCC became dictatorial towards ordinary people, the ground being prepared for him by Montini (Paul VI). These realities would mean nothing to Galli the corner cutter.
Jeffrey Chalmers,
The strangely named “liberal theology” and fundamentalism are almost identical: both stem from Karl Barth and his counterpart Rahner.
Yes, in many ways, they/we bring unique gifts to the table that make for an overall richer community.
Right!?
Love this descriptor.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
In England in my young day, TE was universal belief throughout the entire public. Evidently Galli like everybody that fancies themselves in the newfangled version of the RCC just the the C of E, thinks only Muscular Christianity is the worthy faction to seize power.
And this is why Christians look like closet polytheists.
Wild Honey,
I did not come up with it. Google attributes it to the British writer Auberon Waugh, son of Evelyn Waugh and his second wife, Laura.
Intellectual backbone means nothing to anyone except to me, you and God, and especially not to all but rare church leaders. The sort of thing Carson comes up with is not out of conviction but for show. I like R T Kendall who has changed his ways in his old age. The new leaders will be you, me and some very old turncoats. As for psychology all that has been reduced to is button pushing.
I’m just going to point out that Mark Galli put himself outside the charmed circle of the Evangelical Industrial Complex in 2020 when he converted to the Catholic church. This is absolutely NOT a slam on the Catholic church. It’s just pointing out that in the eyes of many, if not most Evangelicals in the EIC, Galli is a heretic. So whatever Galli is suggesting is probably going to be viewed with narrowed eyes in the EIC.
As for me, I’ve said this quite a bit on Twitter in the past, and I’ll repeat it here. The Evangelical Industrial Complex is beyond repair and needs to *figuratively* burn to ashes. I would hope something better can come from sweeping away a many tentacled operation that, among other things, has a very bad habit of covering up all sorts of scandals and actual *crimes* (including child sexual abuse) while studiously ignoring the voices asking/begging for change. That said, I am well aware from history how most revolutions aren’t so revolutionary, or as the Who sang in “Won’t Get Fooled Again”: “Meet the new boss / Same as the old boss.”
Why yes, I’m cynical, how’d you guess?
… and paying dues.
Funny you should mention Dreher. Like Galli, he swam the Tiber in 1993 (from the Methodists, per Wikipedia), was there until 2006, but then left over the handling of the child sexual abuse scandal by the Catholic leadership. He is currently resident in one of the branches of Eastern Orthodoxy, but to be honest, I’m not sure which one. It is confusing. (For example: Apparently Russian Orthodoxy has broken up into several pieces, in large part due to the migration of Russians out of Russia in the 20th century, and then the dissolution of the old Soviet Union, which caused national Orthodox churches to break off into their own Orthodox churches.)
I have opinions about Dreher, but they’re beyond the scope of this article and subsequent comment.
“And the three men I admire most
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died…”
— Don McLean 1971 —
Nor do I.
Like Jiminy Cricket said, I’ll let my conscience be my guide.
It’s a living, if enough consumers can budget to pay to hear what they say. A pen, a mike, a camera… for readers, listeners, viewers.
Frankly, it’s wonderful to read TWW: Dee’s posts, Todd’s posts, all of TWW comments from you all. NO paywall! Thank God!
The only thing Jesus did in passing out baskets was to share bread and fish. Jesus never collected $$$.
The NT never mentions collection plates for church salaries and buildings. Nothing wrong with buildings and salaries but obviously they are not necessary for church.
Church is where 2-3 are gathered in Jesus’ name. Free. Nothing about expenses and budgets.
There’s an entire unspoken premise in all of this: the idea that the church’s future leadership will come from the United States. That may not be the case. The church and God’s kingdom are both worldwide. And I can tell you that already a lot of my overseas believer friends look askance at what American evangelicalism has become. There are strong church movements in many other parts of the world. American evangelicalism could well simply shrink and deform even more until it is hardly recognizable as part of the church. Not that the church won’t exist in North America, but that it will largely be found in places other than evangelicalism.
Muff Potter,
The concept of ‘moral conscience’ as ‘guide’ seems to be down-played in some of the ‘New’ theologies that are focused on ‘the leadership’ for moral guidance.
The orthodox understanding of ‘moral conscience’ is that it takes PRECEDENCE over what we are ‘told’ by other men because it is there, in the sanctuary of our private moral conscience, that we meet with God alone.
Max,
I agree with the original quote as the minister holds a teaching office. At the same “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
Muff Potter,
“Like Jiminy Cricket said, I’ll let my conscience be my guide.”
++++++++++++
i really want to know where this idea came from that we need to be assigned to an authority figure to make sure we’re regulation christian.
(i have the urge to run out the front door and keep running as fast as i can just thinking about it)
it wasn’t like this with my grandparents, or even my parents. it’s a relatively recent thing.
.
.
(pretty sure it’s the work of shadowy ‘christian’ entities which groom christian culture to buy into ideas that generate power and wealth for the professional christian class.)
(like the shadowy entities that have cultivated my teen-age daughters’ belief that they *need* 4 products to clean their skin, 3 products to take off their make-up, $14 hair conditioner, $25 eyebrow pomade (?), and $50 acrylic fingernails
…that these are all normal staple items of every household)
.
.
this is exactly what christian powerbrokers have done to my religion.
Reworked christian ‘normal’ to include all sorts of rules-laden new doctrines and expensive ‘conferences’ and ‘simulcasts’ and must-have books and ‘life groups’ and Right Now Media and TGC articles and podcasts to program us with thoughts about EVERYTHING…
…for the cultivation of power and wealth for the professional christian class.
John,
“There’s an entire unspoken premise in all of this: the idea that the church’s future leadership will come from the United States.’
++++++++++++++++
sounds like insular america, alright. where christianity was invented 50 years ago, of course.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
LOL; not at all.
Cynthia W’s analysis of how a group’s interests can shape its perceptions, thinking and actions reminds me a great deal of the analysis at the NC weblog. I think I’ve read very similar accounts of present-day journalism there. They are bitterly critical of the class interests of our elected rulers, too.
‘not far from’ is a compliment, echoing Jesus’ remark to a discerning interlocutor that he was ‘not far from the Kingdom of God.’
I mentioned him because his publication hosted the article to which Mr. Galli was responding. He is in Russian Orthodoxy, at least the last I checked, but, as you observe, both Russian and Greek Orthodoxy have various sub-groups active in the United States.
(I have out-of-scope opinions on Mr. Dreher, as well. 😉
Excellent point!
I looked at the site after it was mentioned. It’s hard to disagree with the basic principle, which I understand to be that everyone starts with the view from their own position in the socio-economic structure and is inclined to protect it.
This reminds me of a few things A.W. Tozer said many years ago (back in the 1930s and 40s):
“If the Holy Spirit was withdrawn from the church today, 95 percent of what we do would go on and no one would know the difference. If the Holy Spirit had been withdrawn from the New Testament church, 95 percent of what they did would stop, and everybody would know the difference.”
“Religion today is not transforming people; rather it is being transformed by the people. It is not raising the moral level of society; it is descending to society’s own level, and congratulating itself that it has scored a victory because society is smilingly accepting its surrender.”
“The cross of popular evangelicalism is not the cross of the New Testament. It is, rather, a new bright ornament upon the bosom of a self-assured and carnal Christianity whose hands are indeed the hands of Abel, but whose voice is the voice of Cain. The old cross slew men; the new cross entertains them. The old cross condemned; the new cross amuses. The old cross destroyed confidence in the flesh; the new cross encourages it. The old cross brought tears and blood; the new cross brings laughter.”
Tozer would roll over in his grave if he saw what today’s church was like!
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
re. your first para., there are still a proportion who haven’t caught up but he is aligned with i – the soft (post Falwell) “hard right” evan-gellymould ii – the new (Asian hating) RC which betrayed 50 million oriental christians iii – the move by SBC member Rick Warren to do things in concert with the Vatican. None of these believe in Holy Spirit and all hold ESS, and this is not impolite to the authorities involved. Hundreds of millions of RCs the world round have had the ground cut from under their feet and are being browbeaten and are allowed no subsidiarity (competence) any more.
The middle aged, agitated, and “reformed characters” envy how this was achieved (my associates in the RCC were involved in it). I saw the same po faced interlopers, along with disguised or undisguised militants, in some protestant milieux in England too. Thus what you are saying is right, but doesn’t negate new developments taking over. Your average protestant will merely profess to be bemused and will then conclude one didn’t have to “be nasty to” catholics after all (just when it is arguable to be more wary of the international enclave) (cardinals “hide behind” the ordinary faithful as human shields).
I also think Galli is signalling that he is still practicing his “art” in the same cause. I have witnessed the Great Pivot, which followed on from Your Passionate Designer Curate (variant: Craft).
Yes and amen.
And I think this is a useful framework for interpreting all forms of social organization, including the churches. I think that present-day believers (at least in the Anglosphere, or perhaps in all the West) tend to not think in these terms. At least in the West, we are preconditioned (and this conditioning serves the interests of the rulers!) to think of all problems as arising at the level of individuals, so that group and subgroup (or, dare one say, ‘class’) behaviors and preferences are not noticed or regarded to be significant issues.
Thanks for your observation re: journalists.
“There is none righteous, no, not one”, with the noteworthy exception of … Jesus, who didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, humbled himself, and became obedient to the point of death, out of love of God and neighbor.
If the evangelical movement has a future that is worth reaching, it will look more like this than what it currently looks like.
We need a “practical kenotic theology” specifically applied to the people who aspire to lead in the churches. My perception is that you won’t find anything like that in the thinking of the current big names in Big Ev.
All as part and parcel of the Lemony Cricket Series Of Unfortunate (Designer Melodrama) Events, a Ray Bradbury style mad circus with calliope noises.
You’re welcome! I read an article recently that pointed out that “reporters” used to be mostly high-school-educated people – mostly men – who went out and collected information about things that happened and wrote “news stories” telling Who, What, Where, When, and How.
When they changed into “journalists,” there was a class shift to upper-middle-class, college-educated people, mostly insulated from the concerns of the majority, who perceive their role not as “reporters” of what-happened but as “creators” of “right” perceptions and beliefs about the world.
I think class allegiance is simply a feature of human nature, and it’s useful to each individual to be aware of it and take it into account in life. Another feature that one sees *everywhere* if one looks is the formation of Our Group vs. Other Group divides and how that is used to manipulate the unaware.
Samuel Conner,
I totally agree!
elastigirl,
Actually, “true christainity” keeps getting “discovered” with almost every “new” “church/preacher/movement”..
I can not count how many times I have heard explicitly/implicitly” that preacher by “so and so” really speaks “truth”, etc…
Which, in reality, is just good old fashion “marketing”
John,
Amen….
Oh you mean like Calum Scott?
Samuel Conner,
In EVERY sect or cult I joined since 1983, the move is to take away our agency as individuals then blame us as individuals. I my write-up yesterday timed at 5:48 a.m (above), I didn’t mention that contributors to the 2017 Hansen tome (copying Taylor) repeatedly slam “individual-ism” when individual-ity – the very thing Jesus affirms, desires and treasures above all – is all but non existent any more. If that’s not bait and switch nothing is, and it is that, not Taylor’s alleged secular perspective, that weakens my urgency to read Taylor further (let alone McCracken or Ashford). This must indeed be why the TGC carefully chose Taylor to be “followers” of.
In the UK it did some while ago but cloaked in the clothes of the genuine article.
Indeed! The problem with much of the modern church is the lack of preachers like Tozer, who had spiritual wisdom and understanding. Tozer was self-educated, without formal training in Christian theology. He stood in good company with the first preachers of the NT church, who were taught by the Holy Spirit.
Cynthia W.,
What is the outcome of pay to play $$$ transactions among followers of Jesus? Judas and the execution of the Son of God.
Think about it when the pulpit pass-the-plate players do their thing.
CT et al are businesses.
Doctors, lawyers, engineers, servers, baristas, etc., do their jobs in businesses.
Faith is not a business as such.
The corruption of money in faith businesses is a problem.
Best to have a real job with faith activities as a side. Paul did and he wrote much of the NT. Free to readers.
Bible embellishment is simply capitalistic. Not necessary. Same with spin of church or Christian news. And church entertainments.
Julie Roys, Dee and Todd, and Julie Anne surpass CT without the CT budget. (The Houston Chronicle does a good job for pay but it’s not Christian.) Max and all commenters write comments here without a paywall.
My prayer is that there is a new breed of preachers like Tozer being prepared in the wilderness to lead the last Great Awakening. Lord knows the bunch in the pulpit now ain’t scaring the devil much, nor equipping the saints as they ought.
I don’t need a paycheck. I found a treasure buried in the field, a pearl of great price.
Ava Aaronson,
Excellent observations.
No doubt about it if they are truly called by God to that office. Unfortunately, “many false prophets have gone out into the world” as you note. TWW writes about them everyday. Churchgoers simply can’t afford to accept every word out of a minister’s mouth as truth. They must have the attitude and spirit of the Berean Christians “who received the message with great eagerness BUT examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11). Many of the problems in the modern church can be attributed to Biblically-illiterate church members who have been in church most of their life but with no working knowledge of Scripture nor disciplined prayer life.
The American church has no special mantle from God. Jesus is not an American! Why would God bless the U.S. in its current condition? In which religious camp would He raise up future leaders? Which one holds a corner on the Truth? Nah, He’s looking for real-deal believers He can trust no matter where they are from; they may not even go to church!
Even if the Private Revelations of each New True Church/Preacher/Movement completely contradict each other. At which point “DIE, HERETICS!” comes into play.
Remember the Ultimate Theoretical End State of Protestantism:
MILLIONS of One True Churches, each with only ONE member, each denouncing all the others as Heretics and Apostates. A theoretical end state these New True Church/Preacher/Movements are rapidly approaching.
“I Got Mine,
I Got Mine,
I DON’T WANT A THING TO CHANGE
NOW THAT I GOT MINE!”
— Glenn Frey, “I Got Mine”
dee,
I agree… very interesting observation… while most of us “work in the evil, secular world”, the “chattering class” (I love this title) like to sit back on pontificate as if they have some “higher” understanding..
While many people like to think that us academics are “ivory tower” and get to do that, I can speak from experience that, at least for scientist/engineers, we are constantly “challenged” and “shot down” through peer review of papers, and especially “proposals” that we write to fund our labs.. and it is getting harder and harder to get the $$$ to support our labs. Also, I have smart students, some of which enjoy pointing out our “errors”.. I can tell you first hand not fun to have a student, in class, point out your screw ups!!
That is why I think it is almost “comical” how “thin skinned” so many of the “preacher boys” are that are subject of TWW posts..
Regarding a 4th option: for those interested, some may find a home in Wesleyan theology. That can range from very low church, such as many in the Evangelical Friends group and Anabaptist Brethren in Christ all the way to some very high church Methodists. It can range from very liberal to very conservative also, but the common thread among them all is two fold: God’s love, not His Glory, drives all His actions. And as believers in prevenient grace and free will which must be taken together, we are always accountable for our actions. Prevenient grace restores the ability to respond positively to God’s grace, and free will gives the ability to accept or reject it. Then they also hold, in varying degrees, to the possibility of entire sanctification. The holiness side sees that as happening more quickly, the non holiness side as a lifetime work in progress, but it does remove excuses for bad behavior. Tozer is held as a hero among many of the Wesleyan groups.
And many of us see nothing wrong with each individual having, in a sense, a different theology than anyone else. Bound to happen if you have priesthood of the believer. Ekklesia and church don’t have exactly the same meaning anyway. Believers can be one and in unity and not attend the same building, hold the same theology, listen to the same music, or pay the same preacher.
If they have the same Lord (Jesus), same faith (in Christ), and same baptism (by the Holy Spirit) they are one regardless of church address, amount of water applied, when it is applied, or even if it is applied.
I’m assuming you’re referring to the timeless Emo Phillips bit
Video of him telling it longform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fAcxcxoZ8
Or transcribed (with bonus religious jokes):
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I’m sure there’s some of that, but at the same time, I think many people don’t even recognize the unstated defaults of their class/occupation, any more than a fish knows it’s wet.
I perceive, ma’am, that you are a prophetess.
🙂
Samuel Conner,
Just an average suburban homemaker, trying to think the best of my fellow humans.
Michael in UK,
“All as part and parcel of the Lemony Cricket Series Of Unfortunate (Designer Melodrama) Events, a Ray Bradbury style mad circus with calliope noises.”
++++++++++++++++++++
typing in Google.com,
…then typing “who is Lemony Cricket Series Of Unfortunate (Designer Melodrama) Events”,
…now typing “who is ray bradbury”,
well, i thought i was cultured, but clearly not.
and no sign of sasquatch, either.
christiane,
“The concept of ‘moral conscience’ as ‘guide’ seems to be down-played in some of the ‘New’ theologies that are focused on ‘the leadership’ for moral guidance.”
+++++++++++++++
ha. there’s no money in it.
just like there’s no money in Jesus Christ, except as a mascot for whatever.
That sounds a great deal like present-day ‘covenantal/contractual church membership’. Thanks for this framing of the problem.
Nice work for graspel ministers, if they can get it.
No it was not.
I’m old enough to remember.
Lutherans in my old home town in Wisconsin went to a neo-gothic stone structure atop a hill overlooking Root River to worship on Sundays.
The gents put on a suit, and the ladies their best finery.
You (generic you) followed along with the liturgy, sang, and that was that until the next Sunday.
And you’re very right, the horse***t you’ve enumerated is not more than 50 years old.
If there’s one thing we Americans are good at, it’s marketing.
Church corruption and abuse are awful, and we all decry over-the-top megachurch campuses and grossly overpaid preachers with their mansions and aircraft. But don’t most of us live indoors, earn some sort of income, and make use of our education and training? A church building, a moderate pastor salary, and/or a degree from an academically challenging college or seminary should not be red flag warnings. Sure, these things are all optional. That doesn’t automatically make them wrong.
Friend,
No, they are not automatically wrong, but as I mentioned here. There is a subtle perversion in what a Christian should look to that, I feel, blunts the voice of God to his people.
Right now, anyway, many ‘ministers’ are the false prophets in the Church.
Bridget,
I do agree with most of what you say here; I haven’t engaged much with church since the pandemic began, relying mainly on private prayer. Never have I gone to church hoping to have my ideas formed or opinions rearranged. I’ve hoped for fellowship, music, maybe an insight that I can privately consider.
But if my favorite preacher is engaging in subtle perversion, I should probably listen harder. 😉
Jeffrey Chalmers,
I knew it was the beginning of the end at our last church when the newly promoted leadership team started talking about how they were going to lead the church “back to the real gospel.” Made me wonder what they thought their predecessors (who had hired and trained said newly promoted leadership) had been doing at that same church for the past 20 years.
Particularly when it comes to women church members pointing out their error.
Exactly.
So, question: Are there any paid pastors living off donors in their tax-free bubble that are willing to share what you just pointed out?
Obviously, according to the NT, buildings and salaried staff are not necessary.
Also, according to the NT, assisting the needy, the truly needy, is necessary.
Seems a lot of church transactions have this backwards or upside down or just plain wrong.
Do pastors and teachers and leaders have anything to do with this misplaced use of resouces? Absolutely.
In Jesus’ day, the religious elite despised the mercy Jesus extended to the needy (i.e., healing the sick on the Sabbath) to the point where they executed the merciful Son of God.
May we demonstrate likewise Jesus’ mercy, and pray to God for His guidance and His mercy for us as we try to follow the Spirit’s leading.
Of course I know pastors who realize church is voluntary. All employees of nonprofits live in a tax-free bubble… not just pastors, but food bank workers, animal welfare staff, Red Cross folks, and millions of other hard-working Americans.
I’ve never belonged to a church that insisted on attendance or tithing. Neither did my parents. Neither did my grandparents. I have never signed a membership document. Nobody has ever asked about my finances or told me how much to give. I have spent my rather long life in Protestant, Anglican, and Quaker congregations. Countless times I have been welcomed. Never have I been scolded for missing last week.
My encounters with abuse happened in high school youth group and college fellowship. Even in the cray-cray youth group, they encouraged us to attend but never demanded it.
Samuel Conner,
Mostly in my experience it hinges on what seemed small at the time like a seemingly informal “decision” to continue an “itinerary” just when one ASSUMED one could reduce / cease attendance at that specific thing if one felt like it; or very general like “baptismal promises” or “identity” (so as not to complain about assorted grave betrayals by, or impenetrable waffle issuing from head office, or not to propose Holy Spirit belief among charismatics, or Bible belief in a Bible church); or just plain “belonging” like the other badges – the barbecues pointedly aimed as diversion, not complaining about the badly amplified rock concert (a particularly bad sin I frequently insist on committing), not caring if the susceptible vicar is pushed over the edge by the hysteria / mania / sentimentality the congregation “leaders” foist on us.
elastigirl,
I won’t admit to attending Lemony Snicket films (they were advertised on the side of buses) and only leafed through the book quickly, but the concept resonated with the very serious **** one of my cults in particular lands its “chosen elite” in (because God must think they deserve it), and lesser carelessness in others.
I had a big Ray Bradbury phase in my 20s. Something Wicked This Way Comes; Martian Chronicles; very atmospheric short stories; I recommend.
Is a Sasquatch a kind of pumpkin?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
They aren’t really; if Mahaney is Falwell is Macarthur is Johnson is Warren is Fletcher is Luther Pendragon is an average Vatican operative (fundamentally), and the vaunted “distinctives” aren’t distinctive . . . Religion puree is generic.
linda,
You’re describing the Old Time Religion I so loved, even Roman (unless of course one was Irish, USA, Australian or at elite “public school”). Even scripture lessons I got at state schools. Before The Fog.
I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating.
It seems to me quite odd that churches that claim to accurately instantiate a religion that places very high emphasis on ‘hearing spoken words’ should employ worship techniques that have the effect of deafening people.
Perhaps someday some apologist for these methods will square this circle.
It’s called “She Uppity”.
Michael in UK,
“Is a Sasquatch a kind of pumpkin?”
++++++++++++++
pretty sure not, even if it turns out Linus’ “The Great Pumpkin” is real.
(hard to imagine a missing link, there)
but you never know… has a missing link between vegetables and animals ever been at least bantered about?
is there a biologist in the house?
Presenting two or three options, and implying that one of these is the only course of action available, is a very old sales pitch. It leaves out the option of “none of the above.”
It could be that the “Nones” or the “Dones” will gain in numbers, barring a movement of the Holy Spirit.
Good distillation, thanks.
When all else fails, The Episcopal Church Welcomes You!
Give em’ time, sooner or later one of the crowned elite in academia will try and invent one.
Although to be fair, The Thing (1951 original sci-fi movie) was both plant and animal.
It could be that the “Nones” and the “Dones” ARE a movement of the Holy Spirit.
Muff Potter,
“Although to be fair, The Thing (1951 original sci-fi movie) was both plant and animal.”
+++++++++++++
and who can forget about Curry Man from Red Dwarf, “DNA” episode.
(an absolute must see)
“Come Out From Babylon” sub-type.
(Though the REVEREND Nebuchadnezzars will never admit to it.)