“Many of us [in the church] are like porcupines trying to huddle together on a bitterly cold night to keep each other warm, but we continually poke and hurt each other the closer we get.” Howard Hendricks
Today I am going to touch on politics but not in the way you might imagine. I still do not want comments about who to vote for or which politician to hate. I want to delve into why there has been such an uptick in the connection between politics and faith. I have a few ideas but we need to take a look way back in history. My family members sent me the following post from The Atlantic: THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH IS BREAKING APART: Christians must reclaim Jesus from his church by Peter Wehner. I find much to agree with within the article but my love of church history combined with my 12 years of blogging on abuse in the church give me a unique perspective.
MacLean Bible Church, under David Platt, is used to claim that the mess is all about politics. That is only one small part of the picture.
I had to smile that the author used the mess that is going on at McLean Bible Church with David Platt as the head. The author appears to lay all of the blame on the huge fight over elders, etc on the political right.
Platt, who is theologically conservative, had been accused in the months before the vote by a small but zealous group within his church of “wokeness” and being “left of center,” of pushing a “social justice” agenda and promoting critical race theory, and of attempting to “purge conservative members.” A Facebook page and a right-wing website have targeted Platt and his leadership.
Although there is some of that going on, it runs far deeper than that simplistic explanation. I wrote about the whole mess in Was McLean Bible Church *Predestined* to Come Under the Umbrella of David Platt and the Southern Baptist Convention I believe it has as much to do with Platt’s secrecy involving the incursion of the SBC into the church without carefully explaining this to the members.
The Washington Post wrote David Platt’s dreams for McLean Bible Church sour as members file lawsuit over elder vote. These were the elders that Platt wanted. Then, there were reports of some shenanigans when those elders lost the first round of voting and then won on the second round.
Platt has angered other members for maintaining the church’s reputed ties with the Southern Baptist Convention.
The church’s constitution describes it as an independent church that “shall not, and cannot, be affiliated with any denomination.” But in 2016, under Solomon, the church began to give money to SBC church planting programs and it has donated about $100,000 a year as a cooperating church. When Platt began preaching at McLean, the church was identified as an SBC church in press accounts.
Current McLean leaders have denied that the church is a member of the SBC and posted a letter from the SBC’s Executive Committee to support that claim. The letter describes McLean as a partner with the SBC but not “affiliated denominationally with the SBC.”
But a spokesman for the SBC, while saying “McLean Bible Church, like all Southern Baptist churches, is an independent and autonomous local church,” confirmed that McLean is considered an SBC church.
Yesterday, in the midst of this mess, I checked the SBC church directory and MBC was still a member but the elders are worried and I bet that won’t be the case for much longer. This church has been playing the *we are not SBC* game for far too long.
There is also the problem that the church had Lon Solomon, the previous pastor, sign an NDA so he cannot speak adding to the suspicion of the congregation. So, when The Atlantic attempts to claim that all that is going on at MacLean is due to a bunch of rednecks, they fail to see a much bigger picture. I am not saying that there aren’t rednecks. I am saying that there is much more to this controversy.
Overlooking the authoritarian, Reformed leadership of David Platt also contributed to the problem.
David Platt is no Lon Solomon. Not only was he the head of the International Mission Board of the SBC, but he is also a died-in-the-wool Calvinist. I have written that the Calvinists have a playbook for taking over a congregation. I have also said that the SBC, now under the control of the Reformed crowd, has been looking for big churches with awesome infrastructure to bring into the fold. Think $$$. Again from my post:
Mclean Bible Church was ripe for the picking. Ask yourself a question. Why would the head of the SBC’s International Mission Board, a died-in-the-wool Reformed Baptist, suddenly become available to preach on Sundays while running the IMB which had enormous financial problems. At the same time, he claimed he wanted to spend time with his family. He was not going to be a real pastor at that moment but it was almost guaranteed to happen. The baloney of being onboard as the head of IMB which coordinates things with the NAMB is seen in this article.
I can picture the SBC dudebros drooling over the possibility of acquiring MacLean. I wrote this post in 2017. David Platt May Be Many Things But He Will Not Be a Pastor to the People at McLean Bible Church. Platt couldn’t keep up his commitments and within the year became their full-time pastor. I wonder if anyone at MBC had an inkling of what might be going on. Platt got money, bodies, buildings, and even the possibility of changing the theology of the church. There is nothing that a Calvinista loves more than changing the direction of a church.
Some of you may want to read this post. The Reform of First Baptist Church of Durham. There are remarkable similarities.
Platt appeared to lie about the membership in the SBC. I think there are many things he didn’t share with MacLean and I think there should be an independent investigation into this mess.
So, I make my case that the author only caught one small part of the problem at MacLean. How easy it was to make this all about politics. It was, just a little bit.
When the historical comparison doesn’t fit the world today.
From The Atlantic:
Many Christians, though, are disinclined to heed calls for civility. They feel that everything they value is under assault, and that they need to fight to protect it. “I understand that,” Dudley said. “I feel under assault sometimes too. However, I also know that the early Christians transformed the Roman empire not by demanding but by loving, not by angrily shouting about their rights in the public square but by serving even the people who persecuted them, which is why Christianity grew so quickly and took over the empire. I also know that once Christians gained political power under Constantine, that beautiful loving, sacrificing, giving, transforming Church became the angry, persecuting, killing Church. We have forgotten the cross.”
I have made this exact same argument many times myself. However, there is a flaw in applying this too broadly. I have often spoken of the burial societies that the early Christians formed. Bodies were thrown over the wall into the burning garbage dump. Christians, showing their belief that man is created in the image of God, would go to their unbelieving neighbors and offer to prepare the deceased for burial. I learned about this in the Ray Vander Laan series “That the World May Know.”
However, if the early Christians wanted to go into the public square and demand their rights, the Romans would have taken care of them in a minute. They would have been killed. Go back 2,000 years and think about the life of the average peasant. Poverty was rampant. Schooling for children was unheard of, medical care was nonexistent, and hunger was common. Entire people groups were sold into slavery. Yet slavery was one way that people could be fed. Of course, the love that was shared by the early Christians was welcomed. Their bravery when facing the Coliseum was widely known. Perpetua is one of my heroes.
The church was a place that protected their people. The history of the monastery movement is replete with instances that they hid people from persecution and attacks. They were known for medical care and they taught people how to farm using crop rotation. As time went on, other Christian groups would emerge. One of my favorites is Jan (John) Comenius who championed to the teaching of children.
But, the Revolution in the US and France earmarked a change. Finally, average people could participate in the governmental process. The average person had a voice and could join others in pushing for reforms in the government and in society. This is where we find ourselves today.
How then do we live with one another?
Make sure people understand their faith to prevent *insider abuse.*
I find myself in agreement with this.
Some of the most distinctive features of the evangelical movement may have left it particularly vulnerable to this form of politicization. Among religious believers, evangelicals are some of the most anti-institutional, Timothy J. Keller, the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, in Manhattan, told me. The evangelical movement flourished in this relatively anti-institutional country at a particularly anti-institutional time. Evangelical ministries and churches fit the “spirit of the age,” growing rapidly in the 1970s, and retaining more of their members even as many mainline denominations declined.
At the same time, Keller argues, that anti-institutional tendency makes evangelical communities more prone than others to “insider abuse”—corruption committed by leaders who have almost no guardrails—and “outsider-ism,” in which evangelicals simply refuse to let their church form them or their beliefs. As a result, they are unrooted—and therefore susceptible to political idolization, fanatical ideas, and conspiracy theories.
“What we’re seeing is massive discipleship failure caused by massive catechesis failure,”
One of the eye-opening experiences that I have had at my Lutheran church is helping with catechism classes. I find myself in awe as the two-year course carefully teaches the kids the important basics of the faith. I only wish my own children had such a course. I have mulled an idea. Why not get this going for adults who missed this growing up? The average person entering the church today does not have this sort of background. Not all of them will do what many of us did-catechize ourselves.
If people in churches are more committed to their politics than their church, the church may be to blame.
I think we sometimes hold onto “what worked” 40 years ago. However, it is quite apparent that today’s culture is immersed in politics. Sadly, I’ve seen some churches try to make a difference by simply “changing the politics” from left to right or right to left. Instead, we need to rethink how we are teaching the basics of the faith to the people. It is interesting that I have not seen any political polarization in my current church. I’ve been trying to figure out why. Our pastors pray for a wide variety of topics. Last week, they prayed for justice yet did not say what sort of justice. Perhaps they were leaving that for us to figure out. I asked myself, “How do I embody justice in my day today?”
Authoritarianism and keeping secrets from the church body leads to mistrust.
Sadly, this is apparent in David Platt’s new gig at MBC. He has Joe Carter as his executive pastor. Joe is deeply enmeshed in the authoritarian “we are in charge” type of Calvinism. This will continue to lead to more anger and more lawsuits. They should just confess that they blew it and start again with more openness. Stop with the stupid NDAs and other forms of securing the fort.
I truly believe that today’s church must start with where were are at. The average person has the ability to enter the political arena and make changes that the early Christians could not. This is good. Sometimes, the political machine overtakes them. That is bad. It is time for churches to innovate by accepting that politics are here to stay. Teach people the faith. Tell the truth. Ditch authoritarianism for love. Stop trying to be “in control.” Often churches are just another version of the political morass. We can make a difference.
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Good post Dee.
FWIW…. I am surprised that this took so long to catch on but the “taking over of a church” can be a great idea. Just don’t lie or deceive while you are doing it. You can cover all the fixed costs in the existing building and you do not need to deal with the costs and headaches of buying land and building. You do not need to be a pastor to do it just visit with a few other families and jump right in. There are a lot of church buildings with capacity and God’s money can be used for real needs.
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“Christians must reclaim Jesus from his church”
Let’s face it. Doing church in America in the 21st century is a long way from the 1st century model. It was all about Jesus then, not so much now. The authority and influence of Jesus is waning in the American church. He has become little more than a beloved symbol. His Church has become a place where men vie for power and theological dominion. Christ is not really Lord of all in evangelicalism … mere men are in control now. When enough believers figure that out, perhaps we can truly be the Body of Christ … engaged together in a Great Commission … a Church of the Living God where love prevails … where there is no distinction of race class, or gender … where the clergy is no more important than the laity … where the Body ministers to a lost and dying world in Jesus’ Name. But, I’m an old man and often have dreams like this … then wake up to reality. I see no widespread outbreak of humility, prayer, repentance and seeking God’s face, so don’t expect to see revival and spiritual awakening that will get us back on track, with God’s presence and power. To achieve that will require a completely different leadership than we now have in place, IMO.
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I listened to the Holy Post podcast talk about this today. I think a better idea than a catechism is a history lesson. There’s a course on Audible from the Great Courses on the History of Christian theology taught by a Lutheran professor. The course is amazing. Rather than telling people what to believe, the professor traces the development and history of Christian theology and tells the audience what Christians throughout history have believed and how they came to those conclusions. I found it very encouraging AND educational.
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“Teach people the faith. Tell the truth.”
This is golden. Totally cogent with the founding of the church in the book of Acts.
(Predation, for example, is rooted in lies, snake oil, deception, cover up, and silencing or gaslighting).
Thank you, Dee, for this post. I had seen the excerpt in Raw Story. I love how you deftly skirt the pols (who are tribal and only scratch the surface) and go right to the heart of spiritual relationships, which is what God looks at … the heart, and where He dwells with us.
Is anyone else in God’s Kingdom following up on “The Atlantic” article? Prescient? Insightfully?
Once again, Dee, you are out there on the edge while the curmudgeon so-called-christians count their toes, “This little one goes to market, this little one stays home, this little one has roast beef, this little one…”
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Evangelicalism is breaking apart because it’s not sustainable.
It never was.
It’s based on slash and burn farming, and a medieval economic/class system.
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Nice post…
I am just plain “sick and disgusted” by the mixing of politics and Christianity…. Life is NOT binary…. nor as simple as both “sides” in the political/culture wars “claim”..
…. and Christianity should not be sucked into this….. sigh…
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I read this article earlier this week It found it quite in line with what I have seen for some time in most churches. Authoritarianism is a problem in the church and in American Politics as well.
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I weep at what the white evangelical church in America has become. I grew up as a missionary kid. We had bible classes, and a thorough grounding in the faith before we could be confirmed in the church (if we so desired, and I did). I see very little like that in current evangelicalism. For many it seems, it’s a tribe, a club, a social and ideological group, but not a place to develop a depth of faith. Many in it do not even know the basics of the gospel. I left it a number of years ago because I could see the direction it was headed. It’s hard as a person of faith to watch what it has become. Lord have mercy.
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Todd, the editor comments on the Bruce Ashford post mentioned that some disturbing information was being received. Can you or Dee give us an update?
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I am amazed at the secularization of the mindsets of the Evangelical churches into the “Evangelical-Industrial Complex”. Thirty years ago they copied the business industrial model and developed a concept of “megachurch” that had critical mass market share in carefully selected, demographically attractive suburban markets. This was right out of a Harvard Business School playbook. Missions to the poor, the minorities, the underprivileged, the inner city residents? Nope: there is no high margins or large returns in ministering to those people. Gotta build market share and get the cost-per-communicant down.
Now we have the follow-on model: the church as “private equity” takeover. Why invest in a new church when you can cheaply and easily take over another one, install new management, and hammer away at your growth model? In short, the infusion of business and financial models of thinking and behavior into Evangelical churches in particular is recent, striking, and profoundly disturbing. Evangelicalism has migrated from a renewal movement within Christianity to yet another business. No wonder Christians of sound sense are taking pause.
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I think you’re talking about something different from a church takeover. Where I live, many church buildings house two or more congregations. They use the sanctuary and classrooms at different times. This is not “taking over” but rather sharing. It’s beneficial, especially if the building also hosts community meetings, a weekday preschool, and so on. I suspect, though, that many abusive churches would never share their buildings, which they view as private fortresses.
Taking over happens when a faction in one congregation forces the pastor out, or a new pastor comes in under false pretenses and changes everything without congregational input.
(Also, maybe it’s just me, but the phrase “God’s money” can be problematic. Giving to the church is totally voluntary, even though some abusive pastors claim that refusing to tithe according to the church leaders’ definition is “robbing God.” Even after the donated money is in the church budget, God does not handle or distribute it. If He did, I suspect there would be fewer pastoral aircraft. /rant)
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It’s become another gospel, which is not ‘the’ Gospel at all … cheap grace, which is not Grace … “and My People love to have it so.”
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Not much has been said regarding the influence of The Leadership Network in this regard. Seeker-friendly church, emergent church, and other movements originated there.
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Modus operandi of the New Calvinist movement within the Southern Baptist Convention. Stealth and deception by the new reformers have plundered the SBC.
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Who has robbed God more in the Christian Industrial Complex … the pulpit or the pew?
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From the Atlantic article: “Evangelical ministries and churches fit the “spirit of the age””
Evangelicalism has failed to “test the spirits to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1-6) … much of what we are seeing is spiritual alright, but not Holy Spirit.
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“The evangelical Church in the U.S. over the last five decades has failed to form its adherents into disciples. So there is a great hollowness.” (James Ernest, cited in the Atlantic article)
From my long tenure of doing church in America, I can confirm the truth of this statement. Evangelicalism, by and large, has done a good job of “drawing disciples away after themselves”, while not making disciples of Christ who become involved in the Great Commission. Instead, they have become disciples of celebrity personalities, theologies, aberrant movements, etc.
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From The Atlantic article: “… many churches … focus instead on entertainment, because entertainment is what keeps people in their seats and coins in the offering plate”
There is no doubt that The Great God Entertainment is on the throne in many American churches. To tweak Shakespeare’s quote a bit, “The church is a stage, and the pulpit and pew merely players.”
Big screens, fog machines, skinny jeans … “Hurry, Hurry, Hurry!” shouts the carnival barker.
Jesus weeps.
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Max,
And, Evangelicalism has embraced “American Marketing” principles to “bring them in”….. American Marketing principles appeal to, at least in part, being “selfish”….. just look at comercials, and what they are targeting..
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“How many people look at churches in America these days and see the face of Jesus?” (The Atlantic)
Whew! Now that should make us all sit up and think! Surveying the churches around me, I see a lot of mugs staring back, but not the face of Jesus. On the other hand, I see Jesus at work all around me … in the lives of faithful followers ministering in the community; they are the Church, whether they go to church or not.
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No doubt about it … many “pastors” are CEO’s of church-as-business
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That is so true with the higher eschelons of the SBC. They are focused on money, fame, and political power. They would prefer a Baptist theocracy over a republic……. Rewrite and/or twist the constitution. They think that “freedom of religion” applies only to right wing fundamentalists.
The “moral majority” never had anything to do with morality. It was all about power and control.
Richard Land (and more) was/is more political than Christian…….. force everyone to believe what “we” believe.
Yes, the Calvinists are taking over, but I believe that Al Mohler’s goals were always about something besides “saving souls”, and I believe there are more like that.
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Why the reference to “White” here in particular? Are Black evangelical churches not like this? What about Asian evangelical churches?
I just feel like the reference to race here is unnecessary. There’s a lot of room to grow in every area of evangelicalism. But if we are going to focus on what characterizes white evangelicalism, let’s make sure it sits distinct from other racial components of evangelicalism. If not, let’s just critique it as evangelicals.
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John,
I was referencing John’s comment: “I weep at what the white evangelical church in America has become … a tribe, a club, a social and ideological group, but not a place to develop a depth of faith.”
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John,
I’m confused. You refer to John but you’re John . . .
Do we have two Johns.
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Thank you, Dee, for posting this – I was not familiar with the article. It started off good but as it went along I began to think it was a little too one-sided/limited in perspective. This was disappointing to me because I am a fan of the work done at the EPPC.
What I agreed most with is the assertion that culture catechizes: our children first and foremost, but all believers as well (“left” or “right”). Most evangelical churches (including nearly all SBC churches) do not catechize believers, new or seasoned, young or old. They are largely uncoupled from church history – at least prior to 1776 or 1517 – and this leaves the door open to cultural influence. It is a myopic view of the history of the church.
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John,
Maybe that John grew up in the white evangelical church and that is his experience, what he can speak to. It’s possible he can’t speak to what is going on among other evangelical churches because he was not in them.
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You will al love this TGC news flash:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/husband-isnt-like-christ/
We all apparently need to know that “husbands are not equal to Christ.” Who knew?
Maybe The Atlantic should look at issues like why an article like this is even deemed necessary.
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Maybe because of all the false teachings coming out of the same TGC group, among other groups. Just a thought.
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All except Pope Mohler, of course.
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Just my take: evangelical churches are breaking apart because they are no longer evangelical.
They no longer tell people that all of us are sinners in need of a Savior. They no longer call for repentance. They really no longer preach Jesus: who He was, what He did, what that means for them. There is now no penalty for sin for anyone either here or in the hereafter.
What there is is a mealy mouthed version of God loves everybody, God accepts all behaviors as equal, God wants us all to play nice. Satan in the meantime gets us to focus MERELY (not in addition to evangelizing or as part of it), just MERELY on fixing society, getting people to join the church, and manipulation. Finney started this mess.
NO!! Hell laughs as we do that! But it scares the hell out of HELL if we call folks to repentance for sin, or if we tell them the truth about Jesus (not a cool dudebro nor a social worker), and teach them to pray, seek, and tarry UNTIL THEY ARE BORN AGAIN before they sign any decision cards.
The evangelical church for the most part is not breaking apart, it is rotted, dead, and falling apart as cadavers are prone to do.
Time to walk away and let it die. And then obey the New Testament and be the church Jesus told us to be.
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IMO, at the root of this problem is a failure by the Body of Christ to “choose from among you men with good reputations, men of godly character and moral integrity, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge” (Acts 6:3 AMP). The underlying dilemma in the church is not a mixture of religion and politics or the engagement in culture wars … but the lack of holy leadership in the Church of the Living God which would keep it on track. Today’s religious leaders are more annoying than anointed in many places.
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Dee, I’m glad you picked up the Atlantic article. I read it earlier this week and it says so much about where the church is today and how we got there.
In my city is a church that was a powerhouse CBF church in the past. A former pastor was nationally known as a CBF leader. Two pastors later the current pastor quotes John Piper in his sermons and other Neo-Cals on a regular basis. The church recently had a speaker from the church where Russell Moore is on staff and it was named as an “Acts 29 church.” The path this church is taking is so transparent. There are theologically astute people in this congregation, but the march away from their historic roots continues step by step . . .
It’s sad to watch.
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The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship is not immune to the New Calvinist movement. The new reformers slip in unaware to Calvinize a church through stealth and deception. Several non-Calvinist denominations have experienced the unwelcome advancement of the NeoCal movement in their ranks: SBC, EFCA, AOG, others.
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Luckyforward,
sort of like conglomerates, franchises buying up other franchises.
from an article i just read on conglomerates (cuz i don’t know much about such things – creative person, here, lost in creativity):
“But there is a personal consideration an entrepreneur should make when seeking growth. As one scales their business and, eventually, delegates the day-to-day, their domain becomes less about people and more about those often abstract realms of systems and strategy.”
.
.
…which isn’t a commentary on delegating (necessary), but rather on seeing ministry as entrepreneurial and ministry as growth of a business. which all reduces down to money.
why not ministry as bi-vocational, volunteer-based?
-with a goal of zero dollar balance.
-No salaries, no pay checks.
-After overhead is paid for, whatever is left over is given to charities with similar anti-self-enrichment resolve.
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As a lifelong white person, I am willing to admit seeing a combination of racism and centuries-long power in white churches. Other churches might have room to grow, but they don’t have 300 or 400 years of just happening to dominate institutions far and wide in the USA.
The church I grew up in just happened to be white… maybe. It was built on land where old covenants and red lining persisted. The schools were all white. The private swimming pools were even more stratified: all were white, some did not admit Catholics, etc. When others dared to show up, or heaven forbid speak up, in any of these placid institutions, all hell broke loose.
Our church actually had an exchange program with a church in a black neighborhood, as if we were in two foreign countries—but that was the best we could do without upsetting countless apple carts.
Just my 2 cents. Not specific to Evangelical churches.
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Paul was a tentmaker/preacher … Peter, Andrew, James & John were fishermen/preachers … Luke was a doctor/preacher … etc.
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Friend,
I’m glad you can see it. I think that’s good. But my point is that this isn’t unique of white churches, they are characteristic of power dynamics. It’s why the same characteristics are present in non-white regions outside the United States among different groups.
I’m not saying there isn’t room to discuss the shortcomings of how “white” missed the mark. Sure. But it definitely seems trendy. And if I’m honest, we would have a healthier conversation if we tried to assess abuse from a global perspective, not a continental racial dynamic.
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Let me tell you from personal, current experience: bi-vocational ministry is difficult to the point of being nearly impossible. There is never enough time for anything – FT regular job, church, family (especially family), other obligations, etc. Churches might say they are open to being led by a bi-vocational pastor, but rarely do they actually reduce their expectations to the proper level. I have had to use a lot of personal time/days at work to do things at church that really could have been scheduled better. Over five years in and I am becoming convinced that bi-vocational ministry is rarely a good option.
In your examples, please note that Peter (married), Andrew, and John were all supported full time by the early church. James was one of the first Christian martyrs. Paul and Luke have no recorded wife/family, so bi-vocational was a viable option.
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That was my son-in-law’s experience. He was a bi-vocational pastor at two churches, before becoming a hospice chaplain. He noted it was very difficult to balance a full-time business position with church expectations for his time.
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Max,
It requires give-and-take from the pastor AND the congregation. I hope your son-in-law has fulfillment in his role a hospice chaplain – that is a VERY needed ministry.
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My son-in-law took on two different churches that had a reputation as “preacher-eaters” (I’m sure you know what I mean) … tough assignments that he handled well, but also tough on his family. He has been a hospice chaplain for the past three years … he loves it.
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The talk about “preacher eating” churches reminds me of something that took place with a colleague when I was in seminary.
Some small churches around the seminary (SEBTS in the 80’s; when it was still a “seminary”) were “preacher eaters.” As students we wanted churches, and if you weren’t good enough, they would fire the pastor and get another. I mean, there was a entire school full of them a few miles away. One notorious church went through eight pastors in fourteen months!
Anyway, a friend of mine pastored a very difficult church, and he had had enough. They really were awful to him in their treatment and expectations. He asked me to go to the church with him on a Sunday morning, and when the service started, for me box and carry his books out to his car. I asked him if he wanted me to come in for the sermon. I was puzzled when he said, “We’ll be leaving about sermon time.”
I carried out the books and waited for him in his study, but could hear him speaking. “This morning’s sermon is recorded, so let me ready it for you.” With that, he took a battery powered cassette tape deck, placed a tape in it, pushed “play”, and pulled the pulpit microphone down to the speaker. He then smiled to the congregation, nodded to them, and walked out the door where he picked me up.
We walked out the door to the sound of Johnny Paycheck’s classic country song, “Take This Job and Shove It.”
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Thanks for such a gracious reply. In my experience, this is not trendy. During World War II, my grandparents secretly helped their pastor aid a family of Japanese Americans after the government seized their ranch in California and forced the family to move across the country. They started over with nothing, as perceived enemies. The pastor risked everything by helping this family when everybody in the city turned them away: barbers, bookkeepers, landlords, et al.
As a small child, I was frequently cornered by a family “friend” who was active in her church, in the Birch Society, and in a group founded by George Lincoln Rockwell. She was determined to keep the races separate everywhere she went, including my young mind. This was awful for me. I knew she was hateful and wrong, but I did not know what was right or how to respond.
I am not sure that comparing US racism with other topics (power elsewhere) clears anything up. As a young adult I did not have the vocabulary or courage to talk about racism, or to respond if the non-white people in my life were kind enough to trust me with their stories. I had basically been raised in apartheid, here in the US, with no understanding of others.
One thing we can do is learn and write our own history. I had the privilege of helping a local congregation uncover some of its unattractive past. The pastor and others dug into archives and created publications that explored topics previously omitted from the official histories. It was fascinating, healing, and humbling.
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Luckyforward,
What a great story!
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Truth is stranger than fiction!
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As a 70+ year Southern Baptist (I’m a “Done now), I can tell you that there was a lot wrong with SBC long before the New Calvinists showed up! Some of the meanest people on the planet hold SBC church membership. While “preacher-eating” can happen in any church, this sad situation appears to be fairly common in rural churches where unspiritual deacons and prominent families (“It’s MY church”) rule the roost.
I think a key motivator of the NeoCals to convert churches to elder-rule vs. SBC’s long history of congregational governance was to protect the pulpit from being run roughshod over mean-spirited church members. Of course, some of the young reformed “pastors” have proven to be mean-spirited themselves!
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GEFS!
I suspect that, having lived by the [political] sword for so many years, evangelicalism over there has begun (to switch metaphors for a moment) to reap the whirlwind. Calvinistas may start to come up against other factions who are just as ruthless, just as willing to fight dirty and just as possessed of a sense of absolute righteous entitlement.
Martin Niemöller, author of the famous “First they came for the communists…” poem, initially supported the new national socialist movement and its charismatic leader. Undoubtedly his own early antisemitism played a part too. I’m not saying this to discredit Niemöller, BTW, as he never kept this secret nor pretended he had done otherwise. His poem and, more to the point, his later life’s work were precisely about the lesson he learned – that my enemy’s enemy is NOT necessarily my friend. But early on, he was so concerned about the growing influence of the communists, and their attacks on religion, that he was willing to support the new political force who, he thought, would help beat them off and restore traditional values.
I’ve thought for a while that Christians have been driven underground in America by organised christianity.
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Oh well, a young pastor doesn’t have to put ‘every’ job on his resume. 🙂
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Indeed! Some of them may still be sitting in a church which is not ‘the’ Church, but a longing for the underground is in their heart. Perhaps the greatest hindrance to genuine Christianity in America (and elsewhere) are counterfeit expressions of faith.
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Let’s be honest .. even the early church ran in to leaders that were about themselves and not Jesus. the early Gnostics tried taking over the church with non-biblical teachings which helped leadto John writing his gospel. Imagine being alive back then and going to John’s church and taking your knowledge to create your own doctrine to suite your beliefs. Not much has changed, even without having a true apostle sitting in our church.
Satan’s tactics never change. Deceive, Divide, and Destroy! I used to be an “evangelical”. Now I just love Jesus and share the Good News of the gospel. I attend one church with a spirit-led pastor, and I listen to Joe Focht of Calvary Chapel in Philadelphia. I’m well fed, I witness as much as I can, and I’m looking forward to Jesus’ return!
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John (the other one),
I wrote a reply, but it’s in Limbo. Hope it’s worth the wait… 🙂 thanks for your thoughtful reply.
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Women?
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… where they seek the higher ground with others of like-mind
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Ava Aaronson,
yes, that would be wo-men 🙂
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Dee wrote, “Some of you may want to read this post. The Reform of First Baptist Church of Durham. There are remarkable similarities.”
It’s a 9Marks article by Andy Davis. Scroll about halfway through Dee’s post for the link.
Dee, if there really is a secret handbook by this crowd about how to “revitalize” a church, Andy Davis as good as spilled the beans about it. What he describes is the same relentless pressure, the insistence on “biblical” practices, taught through “expository” sermons, that many of us here have been through. He acknowledges that there are non-essentials, that we must stick to the gospel, but like others he pretty much makes male elder authority into gospel.
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Sent a copy to my writing partner (the burned-out country preacher).
He’s had his own experienced with pastor-eating churches.
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Long time lurker first time commenter. Thanks for all you do Dee. TWW has been huge for me in terms of realising the pitfalls of evangelicalism and ‘churchianity.’ Im an Aussie. My wife and I have been at a reformed church for a few years, before that we were unceremoniously pushed out the door of the church where I was a minister (church of christ) because I dared to question why I was accountable only to the senior pastor and not to the eldership. I have since come to understand the ‘pastor as CEO’ model and how it so easily reduces transparency and accountability, and attracts narcissists and bullies.
Now at our current church we’re seeing a shift away from a simple gathering together around Jesus to a highly produced Sunday service with programs and pathways galore. We’re on our way out but saddened as:
– there isn’t much of a forum to discuss issues with leadership
– our young kids have formed relationships with other kids and we worry for them
– we’ve made a lot of friends at this church.
We’re exploring the idea of homechurch, as we want to move away from denominationalism, at least for a little while, but we worry about becoming isolated.
I don’t know why exactly I’m sharing all this- maybe because a lot of you seem to get it. I love Jesus. I’m really struggling with the church though. It seems so far from the Jesus movement of the gospels and acts.
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so it appears that the ‘witness’ that was ‘evangelism’ in the age of Billy Graham has been overshadowed by MAGA-ism to a point where people who observe are ‘confused’ at best, turned-off in some cases?
and it appears that the inclusion of the ‘neo-Calvinistic’ teachings have clashed with what the traditional ‘Baptists’ held as markers of their denomination (?)
But from WHERE or WHOM has come the intensity of the ‘finger-pointing’ to ‘those other sinners’ in some effort to establish some ‘higher ground’ from which to look down on so many with contempt???? My grandmother was a Southern Baptist and she was notably innocent of that kind of contempt for other people. She was a kind and humble faithful Christian woman of generous spirit towards other people, yes.
What changed from her time, when our family have letters from the 1800’s that reveal a humility before the Lord that is a marker that brings ‘grace’ into a faith community? What happened? ?
Questions, no answers here, just hard to watch what has happened to a denomination that fielded someone like Lottie Moon (and for me, my grandmother of blessed memory who stood witness to Christ). Very sad to see this ‘change’.
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Paul K,
This would certainly keep pastors on their toes.
My degree is in history. I’ve lost count of the times something a pastor has said has made me wince.
I think my two favorites are when the alternate ending to the Lord’s Prayer was attributed to the Catholic Church (which was then roundly beat up on in the sermon for “adding to the WORD”), and the aside comment that Lydia’s household was all female.
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Sigh. Just finished The Atlantic article. Other than this part from Professor Kristen Kobes Du Mez (history professor, Paul K!), it seemed like it could have come off The Gospel Coalition.
Much blame laid at the feet of social media and everyday congregants. Very little at the feet of leaders (most of the people quoted in The Atlantic are ministry professionals; other than the author, the voice of laypeople was not really explored) who have used fear-mongering to encourage tribalism and discourage independent thinking over the years.
The Du Mez quote: “Du Mez is somewhat more sympathetic toward ordinary evangelicals than she is toward powerful evangelical leaders. She acknowledges that many evangelicals have genuinely sought to follow God’s will; they were directed to believe what they do by pastors, Bible-study leaders, Christian publishers, and Christian radio and television programming. ‘Many have sought certainty in turbulent times,’ she said, and they know that challenging these narratives may well involve the loss of meaningful communities.”
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Burwell Stark,
“Churches might say they are open to being led by a bi-vocational pastor, but rarely do they actually reduce their expectations to the proper level. I have had to use a lot of personal time/days at work to do things at church that really could have been scheduled better.”
++++++++++++
Hi, Burwell.
I believe you. Thank you for all the honest investment of your time and effort.
I think that the norm for ‘church’ has gotten unnecessarily big and complex — instead of ‘the arms race’ it’s ‘the church race’.
more elaborate, more updated and manicured, more this, more that — it all costs more and more to operate just to stay ‘competitive’, in order to grow market share. or just to keep it.
to pay the bills. for a payoff on investment. to fund too many revenue streams tangled together.
the cost escalates in dollars, time, effort, and professional services required to keep up.
people have come to expect this exciting / eventful / glamorous ‘norm’ as if it’s what church inherently is supposed to be, thus society is entitled to it. and thus, as you say, ‘rarely do they actually reduce their expectations to the proper level’.
my feeling is a big correction is due (and coming like the weather when you can smell imminent rain heavy in the air). the pendulum is wanting to swing back to something small, simple, raw, to the point, where many hands make light work (instead of a small group who runs it all for a fee). and which naturally requires a small budget.
where expectations are modest, realistic, and all play a part (instead of foisting outsized expectations on one central leader).
it may sound idealistic, but as it see it, it’s just sensible, reasonable, and no-nonsense.
(i’m sure i’m stating the obvious)
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Al,
Thank you for posting…. I sometimes wonder who reads TWW…
While there is a significant amount of “disappointment” and frustration ( my mild words) expressed in TWW, I also am quite encouraged by TWW.
First the Bible, and history is full of examples of “fallen humans”; why should we expect our current “times” to be exempt?
Second, I felt somewhat “alone” in my disgust of the establish Evangelical Industrial Complex, EIC, .. They seem to have categorized me as someone between a “evangelical zealot” and a “fallen away believer”…
Now I realize, while I am far from some model “Christian”, I realize that I am not the only one who is searching for “the way” and know that the EIC DOES NOT know “ the way”…
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Thank you,
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I feel your pain, Al. You will find a kindred spirit at TWW … many of us have experienced what you have gone through. We may be done with the counterfeit church in our respective areas, done with places where there is another gospel which is not ‘the’ Gospel, but not done with Jesus. Be encouraged … Jesus is still on the throne!! (if not in the church where you live)
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I hope to live long enough to witness that, elastigirl. When enough believers grow weary of mega, complex and overdone, perhaps we can have Church again.
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I’m sorry you and your family are going through this. It’s good that you recognize the problems. There are no perfect answers, unfortunately. It sounds like some or all of you might be relying on the church for a lot of activities. Possibly you could find some activities outside the congregation, to spread your emotional investments around. You could perhaps invite your children’s friends to your home or out for a hike, so that the friendships are not entirely focused on church activities.
If your church doesn’t approve of outside activities and friendships, head for the hills.
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Yep, it’s high time to take an axe to the root of this tree. We have a spiritual leadership crisis in the evangelical church.
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The Y2K mandate.
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The expression of faith demonstrated by your dear grandmother and others of her time is largely missing in the American church because churchgoers got over that sort of stuff! Instead of humility, we have let pride run loose in the church to raise our own towers to heaven. Cheap grace, instead of costly Grace, defines us. We are largely a prayerless and powerless people, running wild with another gospel, who have lost touch with our Creator because of our pride and rebellion. Humility, prayer, repentance and seeking God’s face is the way back … but I don’t see much movement in that direction.
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…where it’s business as usual since church is a business.
Offer a social network, require dollar and time investments, keep employees paid and with signed NDAs, and maintain a Good Look. (Some would say, “Yippee! Go Team!”)
Vs:
“Go into all the world and share the Good News, making disciples, while teaching My disciples to observe all I have commanded.” (Some would say, “Oh, bleh, boring!”)
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For awhile I lived in a town that had a gigantic steak house. The rooms had corny signs showing how many diners could be seated: “Dodge City, Pop. 250.”
People flocked to the place. It put some other restaurants out of business—but not all. I spent far more time in a little family-owned diner where everybody knew my order.
The mega has not broken the model. Small churches are still out there in many places, if people are up for a bit of adventure. Most have websites that give a clue about the basic beliefs, and these days a lot have archived sermons online as well. It’s all voluntary, of course. 🙂
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JC, Max and Friend- thank you for your replies. I appreciate the welcome into this space. That Evangelical industrial complex sure deals its fair share of damage. I’ve seen far too much worship of money and man to go back to it I think. And Friend thank you for your sound advice. For us it’s been a struggle as so much of our lives has revolved around ‘being plugged into the church.’ Now we’re facing the reality of not being fully connected with the (organised) church, there’s a lot of fear and guilt there. Were getting through it.
However we have some beautiful friends who are walking the road with us- and although they still want to remain embedded in the church, they see and feel deeply for us and with us. I’m thankful for these dear friends who are closer that blood, who understand the pain and the issues- even if they arrive at a different decision for how they move forward.
Evangelicalism is falling to pieces- not only in the USA. Were seeing it here too. My good friend once said ‘every empire must fall- all but the kingdom of God.’ I believe the EIC is nearing its end. And maybe we will see, as was said above, a pendulum swing to a more honest and simple expression of love for God and for others. I sure hope so.
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Church history has recorded the rise and fall of a multitude of ministers, ministries, and movements which were not of God. The Kingdom of Heaven on earth in the here and now has outlasted them all … you can’t break it, you’ll break yourself coming against it. So I look for Kingdom activity around me … but grieve by not seeing it manifested in much of the organized church. After 70+ years of being denominationalized to near death, I have chosen to not go to church but to be the Church. Perhaps, this will only be for a season if/when the Church (the real one) gets back on its feet.
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elastigirl,
Thank you, elastigirl. I probably should have mentioned that the church I serve is 106 years old (I am now the second longest serving pastor in the church’s history and will overtake the longest in 9 months, if I am still there) and has an average worship attendance of 25-30. It is very much a rural, family style church, where almost everyone is kin (except my family). They have seen more splits than an Olympic gymnastics team – that was probably a slight exaggeration – and I often wonder why they don’t just close the doors and merge with the church just two miles away; they are almost all kin to them, too. There is no internet in the surrounding area and the population growth over the next 10 years is expected to be 11 people. Total.
So it is not just the larger/corporate churches that have unreasonable expectations.
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The so called ‘MAGA’ Christians of today have no idea of what real persecution is, do they? Oh anybody can prattle on about ‘jeezus this’ and ‘jeezus that’, but your grandparents and said pastor demonstrated what real courage and genuine Christianity is all about.
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Regarding NDA agreements, on Wednesday Dilbert had the perfect strip. You can see it here: https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-10-27
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We’re off to the Isle of Skye tomorrow. The weather forecast is bogging; so I’ll probably not manage the Bhasteir Tooth this time! (Certainly eying it up, though – Naismith’s Route looks sensational.)
I hope this is helpful.
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In Other News: I googled
nick bulbeck existentially useless
just now, and the top search result was one of my posts here on Wartburg. I do not know what this sign portends.Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127
Oh, have fun no matter what the weather brings!
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Yes. “See you later alligator” is the appropriate response when asked to sign a church NDA.
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Perhaps we won’t see the day the Church begins to once again be the House of the Living God, but you, Max, are being the Church by encouraging others here at TWW and remaining steadfast in the faith, once delivered to all the saints. I’m grateful for your powerful witness!
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Believer,
I’m encouraged to know you were encouraged, Believer.
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I heard there’s a cave there with paintings of ancient aliens.
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Muff Potter,
I don’t know about aliens, but there’s a fairly wondrous song by Andy Stewart. Recording is online:
I’ve just come down from the Isle of Skye
I’m no very big and I’m awful shy
And the lassies shout when I go by
Donald, where’s your troosers?
Let the wind blow high, let the wind blow low
Through the streets in my kilt, I’ll go
All the lassies say hello
Donald, where’s your troosers?
A lassie took me to a ball
And it was slippery in the hall
And I was feared that I would fall
For I had nae on my troosers
Let the wind blow high, let the wind blow low
Through the streets in my kilt, I’ll go
All the lassies say hello
Donald, where’s your troosers? … etc.
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Non-denominational churches are prime targets for hostile takeovers. Not very Christ like in my opinion.
One quibble — burial societies predated Christians. They were common across the Empire. When the Empire had to deal with early Christian groups, the Empire classed them as a burial society because they had nothing else that fit.
An odd bit of history, I know. Like the bit about Daniel being a poor, poor, shepherd boy. In Daniel’s time Judean lions were still common, and shepherds in the pre-monarchical period were the Elite Warriors of the communities of the Judges. So Daniel vs Goliath wasn’t as big a mismatch as it would appear to later Gospel writers, who didn’t have to deal with lions, or even as many wolves, since shepherds kill wolves.
Wayne
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Back in the mid eighties, I was stationed in Athens Greece where we attended a small southern baptist church. Probably at most, 75 people. Simple preaching… great friendships…loving believers. I long got that again.
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That was a common experience of Southern Baptists, particularly in small congregations … before the New Calvinist movement messed it up.
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David?
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The ‘alien’ cave painting thing was just a cribbed reference to the sci-fi film Prometheus.
Thanks for the song, you can tell it was written when songs meant something.
When minstrels told stories town to town, long before the electronic age.
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I get sooooo weary hearing about David.
I’d rather hear of Jael and her exploits.
Maybe some enterprising soul will celebrate her in film.
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Ehud was an interesting guy. Don’t hear much pulpitry about him either.
Our children often selected to read Ehud’s accounts for bedtime stories. The Bible describes graphic detail. Surprisingly, Ehud’s quests didn’t bother their sleep habits.
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Muff Potter,
I got the Prometheus reference! And indeed we’re planning to go up to the Quirang at some point.
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Erm… about burial vs. supposedly “throwing” the dead into a burning garbage dump.
No. Untrue. I absolutely cannot conceive of a society that would be so disrespectful toward the bodies of those they loved. Only those who had absolutely no money and no other way to care for the bodies of their dead would do that.
I don’t often put on the professional “hat” that i trained for in grad school, but I’m doing it now. I’m an art historian. One of the emphases in studying the art of the ancient world is, understandably, funerary art. I know of no culture/society in the ancient world that acted in such a way.
The converse is true. People absolutely memorialized the dead.
Here’s a place to start reading about Greco-Roman funerary customs and art. Please keep in mind that this is not so very different from other parts of the ancient world, particularly after Alexander the Great’s conquest of the ancient Near East and subsequent Hellenizing influences + the Greek colonization of Asia Minor (today, it’s Turkey).
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/dbag/hd_dbag.htm
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Wayne Borean,
Yes indeed, re. burial societies and funerary customs and monuments that honored the dead.
There are some extremely weird ideas about many things floating around in evangelical circles.
I’ve gotta say, this one has me kinda gobsmacked!
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Muff Potter,
How about we focus on people who did nonviolent things?!
Muff, I’m not meaning to single you out – this isn’t about you, so much as it’s about having to sit through too many very intense evocations of some of the worst violence in the Jewish scriptures, as recounted by evangelicals.
I always hated that.
I think i always will.
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OK, there’s this burial in Africa, which occurred about 78,000 years ago.
Yes, the number’s not a typo.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56986457
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numo,
Thank you, numo. It’s too easy for people to make up discrediting stories about people who are/were different.
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I know someone did a Precious Moments parody of her.
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Respectfully, I think there’s a vast difference between what Jael did and much of the gratuitous macho-oriented violence in the rest of the Hebrew Bible.
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While i understand your point, i still have to say that the description of what she did is graphic and ugly – and from my pov, she doesn’t get a pass because she’s a woman.
I have never felt comfortable with any of the violence in sacred texts. Period.
At this point, i am finding it very difficult to so much as look at paintings of the crucifixion, crucifixes, etc. Even the relatively unbloody and comparatively serene crucifixions painted during the Renaissance.
I find it hard to stomach, the agony and the blood. Although I’m not a fan of the stylized unrealness of Eastern Christian icons, with this subject, they’re a bit easier to take.
All this after years of having to look at Western sacred art and somehow mentally shielding myself from the emotional impact of the suffering depicted. I just can’t do it anymore. Part of that is about Christian iconography, but it also comes from the awareness of great suffering and the monstrously cruel policies of certain pe + white supremacist excuses for the murder of innocents.
(And my emotions are so engaged by this aspect of current affairs that i find it pretty well impossible to read posts here these days. We all have our limits, and I’ve backed away from a number of sites that i used to read regularly b/c it’s all too much for me. I spend days away from news now, too. It’s self-preservation.)
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Muff, i have a reply to you that got caught in the spam filter.
Hopefully someone will let 8t out of jail. 🙂
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Tim Schultz, the president of the t Amendment Partnership and an advocate for religious freedom, told me that evangelicalism was due a reckoning. “It has been held together by political orientation and sociology more than by common theology,” he said. The twin crises of the summer of 2020—COVID and a heightened awareness of enduring racial injustices—exposed this long-unnoticed truth. Some of the most distinctive features of the evangelical movement may have left it particularly vulnerable to this form of politicization. Among religious believers, evangelicals are some of the most anti-institutional, Timothy J. Keller, the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, in Manhattan, told me. The evangelical movement flourished in this relatively anti-institutional country at a particularly anti-institutional time. Evangelical ministries and churches fit the “spirit of the age,” growing rapidly in the 19, and retaining more of their members even as many mainline denominations declined.