Mike Castelli – Man of Integrity at The Chapel

Second, God is ever and always, with no shadow or turning, both light and truth. He is truth. He is light. Light exposes the truth. It exposes beauty and horror. Clean and filthy. And truth always calls what is exposed by its right name. “White-washed tombs full of dead men’s bones” is both exposure and truth. To cover-up or even slightly shade, deceive or rename anything the light exposes is ungodly. The Light does not flinch. The Truth does not water down. You see it is only light and truth together that expose the cancer; call it by its right name and enable healing to occur.

Third, light and truth require transparency- which simply means letting light pass through so that what is hidden can be distinctly seen. Transparency is the opposite of complicity which means to be folded up with. That means when sin is named light is needed. We do not like it. Neither did Adam and Eve whose immediate response was to hide. We prefer hiding and damage control. God calls us to the truth and light of transparency. Transparency protects both alleged victims and alleged predators from the horrific burden of lies. A transparent process protects truth for all. When those in power attempt to dissemble in order to protect an institution they are no longer accomplishing damage control. They are causing damage – damage to God’s precious sheep and damage to the name of our God –this, in the name of protecting the house of the Lord. That is what the Israelites said in Jeremiah – “the Temple of the Lord” – all the while throwing their children, the vulnerable ones, into the fire of Moloch. God’s response was to destroy the temple system he ordained and designed and cast his people across the earth.

Finally, dear vulnerable ones, those used, silenced, and cast aside – know that Jesus is often not like his church. He loves and calls us to truth and light, transparency and right naming. He himself is the one who bends to tend and care for you when his church does not. He weeps – not only over you and your suffering at the hands of those who name his name – but also over his church saying, as he did over Jerusalem: “If you had known the things that make for your peace…my house has become a den of robbers.”

Dear Church: Hear the Word of the Lord, by Diane Langberg


“Furthermore, its aim is to ensure maximum transparency, total objectivity, and strict adherence to Biblical principles in reviewing the events that transpired.

…The Board will present the findings to the entire church body, in the spirit of utmost transparency.
The Chapel Leadership Update, May 22, 2021

“This Constitution Committee will begin meeting this week to examine the events leading up to and through this past week. Its aim is to ensure maximum transparency, total objectivity, and strict adherence to Biblical principles in reviewing the events that transpired.”
The Chapel Leadership Update, May 24, 2021

“We request your grace and your patience as we walk a careful line between full transparency and the wise restraint necessary to honor the investigative process, and to protect the dignity and privacy of all Chapel staff members, pastors and their families.”
The Chapel Leadership Update, June 18, 2021


The Wartburg Watch has been following the saga of The Chapel Church for about three months now. Our involvement began as many of our stories do, with a tip from someone who had some inside information. Allow me to bring you up to speed on the general framework of this story by quoting from The Chapel’s website:

Q. What happened?

A. On Thursday, May 20, Pastor Tim Armstrong (Senior Pastor) asked for the resignation of Pastor Mike Castelli (Campus Pastor, Green). Pastor Tim made this decision based on his belief that there existed under Pastor Mike’s leadership a culture among the staff at the Green Campus that did not support Pastor Tim’s overall vision for the church. Pastor Tim felt that these cultural differences were contributing to a breach in the foundational unity of our church. When Pastor Mike declined to resign, Pastor Tim terminated Pastor Mike’s employment.

Around the same time, concerns of a very different nature were brought to the Board of Trustees, involving claims against Pastor Tim of harshness and fear-based leadership toward The Chapel’s staff. On Friday, May 21, and Saturday, May 22, the Chairman of The Chapel’s Board of Trustees called a committee to conduct an inquiry into these claims, in accordance with Constitution Policy C-19.

The Committee engaged The Center Consulting Group to help with the necessary fact-finding to discern an appropriate path forward. Additionally, the Trustees placed Pastor Tim, along with Executive Pastor Jim Mitchell, on a voluntary administrative leave. In their absence, Pastor Mike was reinstated and also placed on administrative leave while the inquiry ran its course.

The Chapel Church consists of seven campuses in and around Akron, OH. Tim Armstrong and Jim Mitchell were the Lead pastor and Executive pastor of the Akron campus; additionally, Armstrong was the Senior Pastor of the conglomeration of churches listed below.

In spite of the four quotes listed above, which gave lip service to “maximum,” “utmost,” and “total transparency,” to date we have seen precious little transparency. The only thing we know is there were “claims against Pastor Tim of harshness and fear-based leadership toward The Chapel’s staff.” These claims appear to have been validated in the investigation. In the Leaders Update dated July 30 we read the following:

After extensive review, the evidence reveals a consistent pattern of conduct that substantiates the concerns raised about Pastor Tim’s leadership of the staff. Given this troubling and consistent factpattern, The Constitution Committee unanimously recommended to the Trustees that Pastor Tim, in accordance with language outlined in The Chapel’s Constitution, is unable to fulfill the duties of senior pastor and therefore cannot be restored to the role of senior pastor of The Chapel. The Trustees unanimously voted to affirm that recommendation. Pastor Tim agreed to resign, effective immediately.

The update included a letter from pastor Tim Armstrong in which he admitted to nothing. I have been told that Armstrong had his attorney present for his meetings. This would not surprise me. A guy can make an unbelievable amount of money in the Evangelical Industrial Complex if he is charismatic (little “c”) and remembers to always protect the brand. In the case of “pastor” Armstrong, don’t shed any tears for him losing his high paying gig in Akron. I heard last week he is already relocating for a new job in “the ministry.” It took him less than one month to get back in the game.

The latest Leadership Update, dated August 20,2021 had this to say about the fate of pastors Jim Mitchell and Mike Castelli:

Pastor Jim Mitchell
By way of clarification, in late May, Pastor Jim Mitchell went on a voluntary administrative leave as we prepared to begin our inquiry into the concerns regarding Green Campus Pastor Mike Castelli and Senior Pastor Tim Armstrong. As Executive Pastor of The Chapel, Pastor Jim’s role in the Senior Office aligned him intricately with Tim’s leadership. On Monday, August 16, Jim voluntarily chose to resign from his staff position at The Chapel

Jim arrived at this decision while the Constitution Committee was still deliberating on many issues; therefore, Jim’s status as a Chapel employee was never brought forward for an official recommendation or Trustee vote. While the Trustees did not ask for Pastor Jim’s resignation, and acknowledge that he followed his own conscience in this decision, we agree that this decision is right, and we accept his choice as the best way for The Chapel to move forward into a new season of healthy leadership.

This fall, we will host a reception for Jim at the Akron Campus, to honor and acknowledge his 30 years of dedication to The Chapel’s ministry. We look forward to sharing the details of this event with you soon.

Pastor Mike Castelli
We commend Pastor Mike Castelli and say thank you. Our inquiry has revealed that Mike was in a difficult and complex situation when he exercised his only remaining option to expose Pastor Tim’s harsh and fearbased leadership to the Trustees. The Chapel is in a better, healthier place today because of Mike’s courage in bringing the truth to light. We affirm the integrity of Pastor Mike.

In partnership with The Center Consulting Group, we have had multiple conversations with Pastor Mike in recent weeks. Out of those conversations, we have reached a mutual agreement regarding next steps that we believe will be most beneficial to the congregation, the staff, and Pastor Mike and his family.

We expect this short season for Pastor Mike and his family to last for six weeks and desire to restore Mike to his position by the end of that time. Collectively, we will continue to move toward stability and unity as a church.


Allow me to summarize what has taken place to date. Pastor Tim Armstrong, apparently the culprit in this crisis, has been found to be harsh and have a fear-based style of leadership. The Constitution Committee and the Board of Trustees both voted unanimously that pastor Armstrong is “unable to fulfill the duties of senior pastor and therefore cannot be restored to the role of senior pastor of The Chapel.

Pastor Jim Mitchell resigned while the investigation into his actions was in progress. Church Leadership agreed his resignation was the best thing to do for the health of the church. So, since “Pastor Jim’s role in the Senior Office aligned him intricately with Tim’s leadership,” causing him to be placed on administrative leave for nearly three months, Mitchell apparently also did nothing wrong, and in fact there will be a big church party for him sometime in the near future. Mitchell also was allowed to address the church in the Leadership Update. Like Armstrong, he admitted to nothing. (No word on whether his son, also employed by the Chapel, and not a part of the investigation, will remain on the payroll.)

Are we straight on the story so far? Two guys were placed on administrative leave while an independent group conducted an investigation into their behavior. Sure, pastor Armstrong ran a bit roughshod over people, but he was allowed to resign and admit to nothing. Mitchell apparently also did no wrong as he was allowed to resign and will have a party to honor him for his 30 years of service. After his resignation the investigation of him was dropped and there was no mention of anything the investigation may have turned up.

Castelli, in my opinion was the hero of this story for standing up to the bullying tactics of the Senior Pastor, Tim Armstrong. The Constitution Committee and Board of Trustees seems to have  agreed with me, albeit apparently somewhat grudgingly.  While they commended and thanked Castelli for exposing Armstrong’s harsh and fear-based leadership, and affirmed his integrity, they did not mention whether this was a unanimous feeling among the two leadership groups. Additionally, it took “multiple conversations” to come to a “mutual agreement regarding next steps that we believe will be most beneficial to the congregation, the staff, and Pastor Mike and his family.”

What was this “mutual agreement?” In the words of Castelli:

The Center has recommended a short season of healing for me and my family as
well as, during that time, coaching to assist in the success of the future of our church. I fully agree with their recommendation. I am looking forward to the future, and I also welcome good coaching as I and we all earnestly seek better cohesiveness and unity across The Chapel Campuses.

Why wasn’t Castelli, the hero in this sordid mess, simply told, “Great job, Mike. You are a man of integrity. We wish all our pastors possessed your courage and integrity. Now you let us know when you want to get back to work. If you want a month or two off to recover from what you and your family have been put through, it’s yours. Just let us know when you will be back.”

Why? Likely because we have some men on the Board of Trustees that lack intestinal fortitude. You know the type – Pastor Mike is not without sin. His tone in speaking to pastor Tim was not winsome enough. He needs coaching on how to speak in a more winsome tone to bullies.

Kudos again to Mike Castelli for taking the high road with these individuals in leadership. He shows his wisdom and maturity. He did the right thing, swallowed his pride and agreed to their demands so he could get back to serving the people he loves. Lesser men, such as I, who actually could benefit from some coaching would never agree to it. Mike was in the right. Mike needs coaching. Tim is a bum, he skates. Nothing mentioned about him and he flees the scene unscathed, and of course finds a new job in less than a month.  I am not a fan of Matt Chandler and the Village Church, but at least when they fired Anthony Moore for repeatedly filming his assistant pastor in the shower, they pronounced him unfit for ministry. (But not unfit enough to keep Thomas White from hiring him at Cedarville. And by the way, White fired his buddy Anthony Moore when the story came out, having been made aware of all the facts prior to hiring Moore, and then lied and kept his job. Tim Armstrong was on the Cedarville Board of Trustees and voted to reinstate Thomas White!)

I recommend that the Center Consulting Group be brought back in to investigate the Board of Trustees. Tim Armstrong was the senior pastor of the Chapel for seven years. Do you mean to tell me that in seven years of bullying staff the Trustees never knew a thing about this? I find that hard to believe.

My guess is there are one or two Trustees who knew everything and did nothing. They should resign immediately.  My guess is there is also a lot more than harsh treatment that has taken place. For starters I would have a complete and thorough audit of the financial records of the Chapel covering the time period Armstrong was in charge.

Something is being covered up.

The Leadership Update of August 20, 2021 mentioned informational meetings that would be held in October.  Perhaps these meetings are when the promised transparency will take place, but I have my doubts. Questions can be submitted in advance and the meetings will not take place for weeks. This does not bode well for “transparency.” Chapel leadership is likely hoping most people will lose interest by October and the event will be sparsely attended.(The meeting was not even mentioned at The Greens church service last week. Just an oversight, no doubt.) Church leadership will also be able to control the information and tone by only allowing questions submitted in advance. I would demand microphones be placed in the audience and any and all who have questions be allowed to voice them.

“Help us to assume the best in others, not worst.”

“Help us to be people that seek unity and not division.”

I recommend you go back to the top of this post and read Diane Langberg’s words again. Investigations are completed. Nobody needs to assume the best or worst. The truth is known. Share it. Share the complete results of the Center Consulting Group. I have confidence that the members of the Chapel can bear it. And I guarantee that knowing the truth will cause unity, not division.

God bless you, Mike Castelli. May your tribe increase!

The Chapel.Life Akron, OH L… by Todd Wilhelm

Comments

Mike Castelli – Man of Integrity at The Chapel — 43 Comments


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    1st


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    This was my church, until Tim Armstrong. If I had lots of money, I would personally hire The Center Consulting Group to find facts- all the facts and nothing but the facts- about the trustees.
    I am not satisfied with the Board’s level of transparency, or with the postponement of “informational” meetings until October.
    Finally, Mike Castelli IS TRULY a Man of Integrity.


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    From the article up-top:
    “A guy can make an unbelievable amount of money in the Evangelical Industrial Complex if he is charismatic (little “c”) and remembers to always protect the brand.”
    You ain’t just a whistlin’ Dixie!
    And tax-free to boot.
    I’ve long argued that they (501-c3 religious entities) should be allowed to keep their tax-exempt status, but should no longer be allowed to exempt themselves from filing IRS form 990, and a full disclosure of where all that moolah is going.


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    If I was a member of that church, I would encourage everyone to withhold giving till transparency was done, these machines need money to run, a lot. That hopefully will force their hand .


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    I would like to suggest the possibility that Pastor Mike Castelli is a genuinely humble and self-aware Christian who did not need to “swallow his pride” in order to pretend to accept “coaching” as a check in the box to get back into “leadership.” Perhaps he is not a proud man. Perhaps he is a servant. Perhaps he has a realistic view of his strengths and shortcomings and sincerely believes coaching (or advice or whatever) from management professionals will be of benefit to him.

    I mean, I know this sounds like crazy talk, in context, but out here in the real world, I often meet people who want to do their best in their profession and are welcoming to constructive suggestions for improvement. One thing that comes to mind is that Mr. Castelli can be a very effective and caring pastor but also benefit from advice on the “business” side of his position.

    (In my vision of the perfect educational system, everyone gets a foundational business course: micro- and macro-economics, accounting, finance, marketing, and management. 18 college credits.)


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    Members of The Chapel who have commented here have indicated that Pastor Jim Mitchell is a decent person. He has the opportunity to give testimony now.

    Instead of fleeing like a hireling shepherd, he could say something to the effect of, “I was taken in by a narcissist, and I feel like a real fool now. Out of a misguided commitment to “unity,” I forgot that Love, not robotic conformity, is the foundation of the church. I’m sorry for the ways I failed (include specifics as necessary) as a servant of the Lord and this congregation. Please forgive me.”

    And finally, if the Trustees won’t come clean, members of the congregation need to throw caution to the wind and tell the story. It’s possible that, for all their cagy words now, there will actually be “transparency” demonstrated in the near future, but if not, the members need to make sure the truth is told.


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    Cynthia W.,

    Yes and yes to everything you said about Mike’s humility and desire to grow.


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    Cynthia W.,

    Months ago I had discussed with friends that THIS was the behavior we hoped for from Jim, when this was all over. We are sad that it was not.


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    Nikki,

    See, it wasn’t crazy talk! I’m glad you have a real pastor in Mike Castelli, and I wish your congregation the best as you get through this.


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    Cynthia W.,

    For information: Mike was an engineer at NASA before he felt called to his ministry full time. He’s been in The Real World.


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    Nikki,
    “He’s been in The Real World.”

    That’s often an extremely good quality! My pastor worked in manufacturing before he became a priest. He’s very mellow, visits all the sick people, and always shares books.

    It’s too bad about Jim Mitchell. If he’s actually an okay person, with empathy and a sense of responsibility, that would have made him vulnerable to narcissistic manipulation. Many people just don’t realize what happened to them until it seems to be too late to get away.


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    Chuckp: encourage everyone to withhold giving till transparency was done, these machines need money to run, a lot

    Excellent protocol.


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    Me again. The only former Chapel employee (so far) to break the silence. (Btw, I was interviewed by the local newspaper, they took photos. Then the reporter called me to say his editors put the story on “indefinite hold.” Hmmm….)

    First, I am grateful that Pastor Castelli’s name has been cleared. Indeed he is a humble man and full of integrity.

    But, when the latest update came out, we were once again searching for the elusive transparency the trustees/committee keep promising.

    And given a “ticket” to the “show” in October.

    Oh, and,, please, submit your questions ahead of time. How can the congregation possibly have any idea what questions to submit when they’ve been given very little info?

    And so the ride on the crazy train continues.


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    Vicki Caswell: Then the reporter called me to say his editors put the story on “indefinite hold.”

    This is why we need the Internet.

    Vicki Caswell: But, when the latest update came out, we were once again searching for the elusive transparency the trustees/committee keep promising.

    Not a good sign.

    Vicki Caswell: please, submit your questions ahead of time.

    Ah yes, give us plenty of time to script the answers we deign to give.

    All of this makes me wonder if Pastor Castelli will have any power at all to improve things.


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    Muff Potter: “A guy can make an unbelievable amount of money in the Evangelical Industrial Complex if he is charismatic (little “c”) and remembers to always protect the brand.”

    “If you want to make a million, Start Your Own Religion.”
    — L Ron Hubbard, who went on to found Scientology


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    OT to the post:

    Baptist News Global article What should you do if a sex offender wants to attend your church? (Article cherry-picked 🙂 from Dee’s Twitter-feed on the sidebar of the blog).

    https://baptistnews.com/article/what-should-you-do-if-a-sex-offender-wants-to-attend-your-church/#.YStynY5KiUk

    There are some good points made in the article, but….


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    Vicki Caswell,

    I responded but my comment needed to go through the x-ray machine for some reason, and I promise it wasn’t due to bad language! 🙂

    The gist: I wonder if Pastor Castelli will have the power to help the congregation recover.


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    Vicki Caswell,

    Vicki, just need to say I’m very proud of and grateful for YOUR transparency about TA. And it’s been glaringly obvious how the Beacon Journal has been dragging their feet on reporting any developments throughout this saga.


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    Nikki: And it’s been glaringly obvious how the Beacon Journal has been dragging their feet on reporting any developments throughout this saga.

    At which point, I always wonder if any of the Beacon Journal staff (or better yet, the owner) is affiliated with The Chapel. One Hand Washes the Other, and Money Talks.


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    As a long time Chapel member, (since Dave Burnham) as unpleasant, disappointing, and frustrating this fiasco has been, this thread is beginning to sound like a gossip column. Opinions are not helpful, and bad mouthing based on assumptions aren’t helpful either. Also, to correct the original post, the Green Campus DID inform the Congregation of the upcoming meeting in the fall. Mike Castelli can’t return soon enough, but patience is a virtue…right??! The pastoral staff at Green has been so good at stepping into preaching on Sundays. The Chapel is so much more than what is being talked about here. Please don’t lose sight of that. It’s no wonder non believers call Christians hypocrites,and articles like this and (some) responses to it add fuel to the fire. Please continue to pray for Mike and his family, and pray that outsiders won’t be turned off by the actions of a few.


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    “investigate the Board of Trustees”

    My thought exactly from day one of hearing about the mess at TCC. Bad boys like Armstrong would have not been able to run roughshod over church staff for seven years without a team of yes-men behind him. Some on the BOT need to go if TCC has any hope of healing and moving past this sad example of church leadership. I have a feeling that church members know who the bad actors are without additional investigation … it’s like knowing who the bad relatives are in a family. I hate religious drama like this … such a poor testimony to the world.


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    Suz: Opinions are not helpful, and bad mouthing based on assumptions aren’t helpful either. … patience is a virtue…right??! … The Chapel is so much more than what is being talked about here. … It’s no wonder non believers call Christians hypocrites,and articles like this and (some) responses to it add fuel to the fire.

    Welcome to the community of TWW. If you stick around, you will discover that several of us have been through the kind of experience you are currently having. You will discover both compassion and insight here.

    When a pastor wrongs the staff and congregation, the problem is the pastor’s behavior, not the reactions of others. My own denomination had a financial scandal in the past. The public did us a favor by joining us in our shock and disgust; it was quite refreshing to see united righteous anger. The higher-ups could not hide what happened, even if they wanted to—but the higher-ups reported the crime as soon as it was brought to their attention. Earthly justice prevailed, and we moved ahead with far better financial procedures.

    Yes, it can be very uncomfortable when the public finds out about one’s own church problems. If your congregation and leaders pull together and actually fix things, this will blow over.


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    Thanks for your comment, Suz. Let me answer some of the points you raised.

    >this thread is beginning to sound like a gossip column. Opinions are not helpful, and bad mouthing based on assumptions aren’t helpful either.

    Perhaps the thread is beginning to sound like a gossip column, but I don’t know if that can be helped when following the ongoing Soap Opera that is The Chapel.

    Some opinions can be helpful, some may not be, but everyone has one, thanks for sharing yours!

    I have been blogging for over 10 years now, and while not always correct, my assumptions are based on research and insiders sharing information with me. While my assumption about your Board of Trustees needing to be investigated may be wrong, I agree with a comment made by Max: “Bad boys like Armstrong would have not been able to run roughshod over church staff for seven years without a team of yes-men behind him.”

    I have heard from a source that the Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Chip Weisel, was a frequent golfing buddy of Tim Armstrong. Let me offer another “unhelpful opinion.” Conscience should dictate that Chip recuse himself from the investigation of his good buddy. As it was, he served on both leadership groups – the BOT and the Constitutional Committee. While I know the Constitution states the Chairman of the BOT will also serve on the Constitutional Committee, it also states in Article VI, Section 1, Paragraph C, that: “Involuntary termination related to inability to fulfill duties of the office, immorality, or infidelity to the Chapel doctrinal statement requires a two-thirds vote of the constitution committee (Article VII, Sec. 2). A two-thirds vote of the board of trustees, and a two-thirds vote of the members voting at a members’ meeting called for this purpose shall also be required.”

    You may wish to pose the question to BOT members why they were holding meetings with Tim Armstrong prior to all three required entities voting. Just another “assumption” on my part, but I suspect the BOT and the Constitution Committee really did not want to share results of the investigation with the membership, which they would have to do if they wanted membership to vote intelligently. Transparency, Suz?

    Also, to correct the original post, the Green Campus DID inform the Congregation of the upcoming meeting in the fall.

    Really? I watched the entire Greens service of August 22 three or four times and I didn’t hear them mention the upcoming meeting. Maybe you could listen again and see if you hear it, if so I will gladly admit I was in error. Here is the link:
    https://youtu.be/s4_Ar7K4URs

    One possible answer is that you attended the first service and the video is from the second service.

    Mike Castelli can’t return soon enough, but patience is a virtue…right??!

    I would agree that patience is a virtue, up to a certain point. Patience is needed to ensure that a competent, thorough investigation takes place. That patience has been exercised. The cases of all three individuals that were under investigation are now completed. In my “opinion” it’s time for the much lauded transparency to now take place. All members should be given a copy of the investigation carried out by the Center Consulting Group as well as any appropriate notes from the BOT and Constitution Committee. These documents should be distributed at a minimum of one week prior to the congregational meetings. This would allow for members to examine the documents and formulate intelligent questions. Questions should not be submitted ahead of time to Leadership, rather, there should be open microphones in the meetings and anyone who wants to ask a question should be permitted to do so.

    It’s no wonder non believers call Christians hypocrites,and articles like this and (some) responses to it add fuel to the fire

    Non-believers seem to be sharper than Christians. They call a spade a spade. They call a preacher like Tim Armstrong a hypocrite because he is a hypocrite. Bloggers like me and those who add comments are not adding fuel to the fire, we are merely declaring that the emperor has no clothes, a fact readily apparent to me and non-believers, but not as obvious to those who have attended The Chapel since Dave Burnham ran the show.

    I hope you will stop by to comment again, Suz. My next installment will cover the “maximum transparency” displayed at the membership briefings. I do hope you attend!


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    Todd Wilhelm: Non-believers seem to be sharper than Christians. They call a spade a spade.

    While believers retreat too often to “touch not thine anointed”, “don’t gossip”, etc. … even as their ship goes down with the captain. It would do the American church well to pray for a new measure of discernment … the devil has found his way to the pulpit in many places. Oh, he can even look and talk like a “pastor” … that’s why they call him the great deceiver.


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    Max,

    Max:

    Some years ago one of my writing partners (the self-educated son of a steelworker) sent me a book titled “Anti Christ”. It was a historical piece tracing the idea of The Antichrist – embodiment of all human evil – from the writing of Revelation to the present.

    One point I remember from the book was that there were historically TWO archetypes of Antichrist: The Fanatic Persecutor and the Slick Deceiver. It struck me that these two worked really well as a tag team – in fleeing the Fanatic Persecutor, you run for protection to (and take the Mark of) the Slick Deceiver.

    And that the Slick Deceiver is forgotten these days; all that’s left of Antichrist is The Fanatic Persecutor. The OTHER, not the one who pretends to be one of you. Maybe the Slick Deceiver hits a little too close to home?


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    This is for Todd. A follow up to the situation I emailed you about last week where my totally good relationship with two leaders instantly crashed. They sent me a short list of their problems with me:

    1) Too much criticism of the president.
    2) You do not share OUR values, when I went through the same training they did and consented to those that we all are supposed to have in common. My problem is that their values do not conform to the institutional standards.
    3) Your personality and gifting stinks. No one like John the Baptist allowed here.

    I was told abruptly to leave after merely writing something important after one of the members and his wife came way too close to death. When I questioned the wisdom of their no, they rudely demanded me to leave. Then they came back with these three conditions above. Sound like any or every situation that has ever been reported on here? And now here is the full response I got back to them asking if it is love to tell people without warning to leave and then lock them out of the Zoom room without giving them an explanation:

    “I have answers for everything you have stated here but I see no point in going back and forth in arguments. Because everything I tell you seems to trigger more arguments from your part.

    Your response sounds like this is everybody’s fault but you are failing to admit where your behaviors have irrespected the groups’s conscience.

    And let me emphasize that- we are not against you- it’s some of your behaviors in the group that need to stop.

    I know you are a man of God so I am hoping the Holy Spirit will convict you and so you will be able to admit, confess, and commit to what we are asking you.”


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    Suz,

    “this thread is beginning to sound like a gossip column”
    +++++++++++

    I am very sorry for the difficult circumstances your faith community is experiencing. It just sucks.

    what is gossip?

    is it different from observing the cards that are on the table and trying to understand them?

    and wondering why some cards remain hidden? (especially in an organization in Jesus’ namesake religion, that purports to do things for Jesus and for his fame)

    in an interest in understanding the bigger picture that to some degree ends up impacting us all?


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    Suz,

    The trustees all need fired. I go here too. I also know what’s going on and it’s not good. Getting Mike back is just a piece of the puzzle. Total reform of how the chapel operates is in order.


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    Suz: a gossip column

    TWW informs and warns … for those who have ears to hear.


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    To those pontificating on the Chapel from outside…please mind your own business! At least this member of the Chapel is satisfied with the manner in which our leaders are working on this awful situation. This has been an excruciating time for us. Though we are beginning to see the dawn breaking, the night is not over. We know we have an extended period of self-examination before us. Most of you know nothing of the spirit of our congregation…the history…the commitment to the Gospel message. If you really care about us…pray for us!


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    I removed a comment aimed at another commenter. I have no problem with reasoned disagreements but a three word attack doesn’t cut it. Sorry.


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    Thanks for your comment, John. I have prayed for your church.

    As to your other suggestion, I generally don’t take directions on what to write about. You stated that you are “satisfied with the manner in which our leaders are working this awful situation.” That’s fine. I have heard from many more that aren’t.


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    John Huff: Most of you know nothing of the spirit of our congregation…the history…the commitment to the Gospel message. If you really care about us…pray for us!

    Sometimes criticism of churches is warranted, although it’s hard to be in a congregation during such moments. (I’ve been in a church with a scandal.)

    Unfortunately, many Christians think they belong to the best church or the One True Church, and they will sit around forever calling other churches hellbound, idolatrous, in rebellion against God, etc. Christianity would be healthier overall if we stopped indulging in that kind of criticism, and developed a sincere interest in others’ beliefs and practices.

    I hope your church recovers well.


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    Friend: Unfortunately, many Christians think they belong to the best church or the One True Church, and they will sit around forever calling other churches hellbound, idolatrous, in rebellion against God, etc.

    The theoretical ultimate end state of Protestantism:
    Millions of One True Churches, each with only ONE member, each denouncing all the others as Hellbound Heretics, Idolaters, In Rebellion Against GOD,etc.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy,

    “A Separation unto himself.”


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: The theoretical ultimate end state of Protestantism:
    Millions of One True Churches, each with only ONE member, each denouncing all the others as Hellbound Heretics, Idolaters, In Rebellion Against GOD,etc.

    Got a kick out of this!


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    Todd Wilhelm: Headless Unicorn Guy: The theoretical ultimate end state of Protestantism:
    Millions of One True Churches, each with only ONE member, each denouncing all the others as Hellbound Heretics, Idolaters, In Rebellion Against GOD,etc.

    Got a kick out of this!

    Actually achieving such a theoretical end state is rare, but does happen.
    Internet Monk’s type example was one A.W.Pink, who ended up achieving it – he spent the last years of his life worshipping alone every Sunday, a One True Church of One. Because he alone was the only True Christian with Perfectly-Parsed Utterly Correct Theology. All other churches than him were False Teachers and Heretics.


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    Max: It would do the American church well to pray for a new measure of discernment … the devil has found his way to the pulpit in many places.

    They already have “Discernment”, Max.
    DEMONS and WITCHES under every bed! SATANIC CONSPIRACY EVERYWHERE – HE’S A SATANIST! SHE’S A WITCH!!! HE HAS A DEMON!!! SHE HAS A DEMON!!!!

    Enlighten me on this, but didn’t “Discernment” originally mean “seeing the reality beneath the outward appearance”, not Smelling Out DEMONS! DEMONS! DEMONS! under every bed and in every closet?

    I experienced The Satanic Panic in the Eighties (though I was well away from Ground Zero), and there was a LOT of Private Revelation Discernment going around that wannabe Burning Times.


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    Max: TWW informs and warns … for those who have ears to hear.

    But to those without ears to hear, TWW is just a Gossipy Noisy Gong.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: didn’t “Discernment” originally mean “seeing the reality beneath the outward appearance”

    And still does in my book. I’m not one to see a devil behind every bush, but there’s no doubt he is active in the American church … in addition to the world and the flesh, of course.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: The theoretical ultimate end state of Protestantism:
    Millions of One True Churches, each with only ONE member, each denouncing all the others as Hellbound Heretics, Idolaters, In Rebellion Against GOD,etc.

    Looks like we are headed that way, HUG. Christianity Today a few years ago reported that there were 30,000 Christian denominations and organizations worldwide … a long way from “millions” but certainly many more than the one true church at the beginning of Christianity.


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    Headless Unicorn Guy: All other churches than him were False Teachers and Heretics.

    Sounds like John Calvin and his Christian utopia in Geneva. Come against his belief and practice and you were either shunned, excommunicated, exiled, imprisoned, tortured, executed, or all of the above.