“A lack of transparency results in distrust and a deep sense of insecurity.” Dalai Lama
The Brooklyn Tabernacle, under the direction of Jim and Carol Cymbala, is in an enviable position. It is a charismatic, evangelical, and non-denominational church with some loose ties to the IAOGO (see part 1) that has achieved what other churches desire and that is to have a successful, multiethnic congregation.
The Brooklyn Tabernacle is still in the heart of downtown Brooklyn and is a multi-ethnic, non-denominational church with about 10,000 people who attend services each week. The church continues to emphasize the importance of prayer as the engine that drives the church, as thousands join together each week to pray for needs around the world. Over the years God has given the church a worldwide platform to proclaim the gospel through the music ministry of The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir.
Who hasn’t heard of The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir which is directed by Carol Cymbala which has won six Grammy Awards? Cymbala is a sought-after speaker, especially in the SBC which is dealing with its inability to racially integrate in any meaningful way
Who is running the Tabernacle?
There are a number of concerns outlined on the Brooklyn Tabernacle Forum. I have been reading and rereading this well-documented site and something jumped out at me a few hours ago. Here is a direct quote:
many have confronted Jim Cymbala and The Brooklyn Tabernacle, spanning decades. Since The Brooklyn Tabernacle has not course-corrected through accountability structures such as a Board of Directors, a team of Elders or Deacons, outside leaders, or a denominational entity, the remaining recourse is a public statement.
In fact, the Forum repeats this concern.
Do church leaders really need to be financially transparent and accountable to their members? Shouldn’t we just trust them?”
“Accountability is crucial. The manner in which a church manages its finances should be completely transparent. A church should always be ready to demonstrate that the funds God has provided are being stewarded wisely. Financial scandals have destroyed or damaged countless churches. And, in most of those cases, there has been a lack of accountability and transparency.” (“How Transparent Should A Church’s Finances Be?”)
Stop. Hold the horses. Who is running the show over at TBT??? I went to their website and found nothing about oversight. As best as I can figure out, the running of this massive ministry is in the hands of 78-year-old Jim Cymbala and his wife and quite possibly, some good friends.
If this is true, then TBT is ripe for trouble.
So how are concerns handled?
From the Forum, it appears that concerns are brought directly to Jim Cymbala. How does he deal with these concerns? I think the Forum is giving us some hints on this page. Basically, it appears that those bringing the concerns are treated to a litany of spiritually abusive tactics such as:
- Matthew 18
- Judge not
- Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
- We need to forgive’
- Touch not the Lord’s anointed. ” We need to submit to our God-given, God-ordained authorities. God will punish you for speaking out against the man of God.”
- One of my personal favorites: “Rebellion is like witchcraft.”
- “We need to protect the Church as the emissary of Christ.”
- “People who make accusations like this are just bitter.”
- Gossip is bad
- Protect the Church
Pretty typical spiritual abuse stuff, right? It is also pretty worrisome.
I have a better thought. God calls the church to be the light on the hill. We don’t get to tell people what they see when the light shines on us and sometimes what they see will not be *glorifying to God.* This spiritual language gamesmanship used to be successful in the days before the Internet but times have changed. The Cymbalas are old school. They started in the days before the Internet and continue to do what old pastors usually do. They fall back on decades-old, trite phrases that use Scriptural misinterpretation to get the monkey off their back.
TBT needs to function as the church as opposed to the old-fashioned * This is my church, I started it.” Ummm, no you didn’t. Jesus started it. And just like he called you to start the church, He could just as quickly decide its time for a change.
If what I am reading is true, it is time for TBT to set up the church as one in which the beautiful, multi-ethnic, multi-racial congregation has a say in who is running things. That means bringing on some sort of Board of leaders made up of a diverse group of people in the congregation which will bring transparency and accountability to the church. Those who serve on the Board would be elected from the congregation.
Having such a board would deal with a number of issues that the Forum is presenting…Except
The Bylaws say there are not real members of the church corporation, only spiritual members and they can’t vote.
In regards to the corporation, the regular members are only spiritual members who do not vote on matters dealing with the corporation which is the entity known as The Brooklyn Tabernacle. The question for members(spiritual or otherwise) is this. Who actually owns the buildings, the land, and other physical assets? Given the age of the Cymbalas, this is not a strange question to ask.
However, the State of New York in Article 8 of the 2014 New York Religious Corporations Law states the Members of a religious organization must be able to vote and herein lies the problem.
Financial and membership voting questions
Apparently, the church has gone through a major renovation and has purchased a nearby building. According to Wikipedia:
The current building was completely redone by Kostow Greenwood Architects and Robert Silman Associates by gutting and renovating the old vaudeville theater for modern worship, and with state-of-the-art acoustics and recording equipment. Two adjacent buildings were converted into offices, classrooms, community service areas, and dining facilities
According to the Forum:
But is the church following the laws of New York in the voting procedures?
According to the Forum, no one knows who gets copies of the financial statements. Also, it appears that no one knows who these “Outstanding Christian business leaders” are who serve on this “Corporate Board of Trustees.” From the Forum:
The Corporate Board of The Brooklyn Tabernacle… who provide independent consultation and oversight” must have been formed within the previous year or so prior to making the public statement on Topix, as the TBT Board of Directors as of November 2006 only had a few members who were all internal salaried staff paid by TBT. When and how did the members at large of TBT vote for each of these “six members, three of whom are outstanding Christian business leaders,” in accordance with the church by-laws?
The Forum asks “When and how did the members at large of TBT vote for each of these “six members, three of whom are outstanding Christian business leaders?” in accordance with the church by-laws?”
The Forum also presents evidence that the church may have claimed to the Kings County Supreme Court that the congregation voted to approve a $56,000,000,in 2014 when records seem to indicate that they did not.
In a June 16, 2014 petition to the Kings County Supreme Court seeking confirmation to refinance 2 mortgages, signed by Jim Cymbala, TBT states “…a copy of a Resolution presented and passed at a meeting of the membership congregation of The Brooklyn Tabernacle held in Kings County, New York on the 15th day of June, 2014. The total membership of the congregation as of June 15, 2014 was approximately 9,900. At the business meeting that the congregation held on June 15, 2014 for approval of the Loan, there were in excess of 8,800 members present who unanimously voted in favor of the borrowing by the Petitioner. The members who voted on and approved the borrowing constituted more than two-thirds (2/3) of the members of the Petitioner. The Resolution approved the Investors Bank $56,000,000 Loan.” (10196/2014, p. 15, paragraph 13)
But, according to the Forum, there were NO business meetings in 2014.
There were no official business meetings called to order for the congregation, pursuant to Article 8 of the 2014 New York Religious Corporations Law (§163-§164). None of these statements by the church are true or were adhered to in any legitimate, transparent way.
So, as the light shines upon TBT, there are certainly legitimate questions that need to be answered, especially in the area of financial accountability. It must be stressed that the members of this church are contributing large sums of money. Don’t they have the moral right to know how the church is using their donations?
There is an interesting story of the sale of a building and a resulting lawsuit is found here. Questions have been raised if the sale of the building was financially warranted. Here are some requests listed by the Forum.
- Requests that financial audits be made public to members.
- Request for a forensic audit.
- Request that salaries for the pastors be made available.
- Request for a trace of all outgoing cash transfers.
- Requests to view the check register.
The Roberta Langella story ended in suicide but her family continues the effort.
Jim Cymbala included Roberta’s story in one of his books. Roberta, and then her family, claimed that the story was misrepresented. Here are links to Part One, Part Two, and Part Three of her story.
Details of Roberta’s story in Jim’s 2008 You Were Made For More book were, reportedly, falsely represented and included without permission.
Among various examples cited by the family, the closing portion in the book says this about Roberta: “…she clings to the Holy Spirit for strength to keep that door closed in her life. She is stamping out the appeal of the flesh through the enabling power of God.”
Her family refuted, “the truth of the matter is that although my sister desires to walk in freedom, her life, at this time, does not reflect what has been written here, which is well known by Pastor Cymbala and other members of the pastoral staff. Once again, it pains our family that the hardships of my sister would be deliberately exploited and the facts twisted for financial gain “in the name of Jesus.””
Roberta’s family fought to have the opportunity to confront Jim, which they did in 2008. Jim agreed to have her story removed from future editions of the book. When the next edition of the book was released, her story was still in there. Roberta and her family pursued various forms of justice until Roberta’s death by suicide in October 2016, at which time her family continued to carry the torch from there.
Here are two comments that her brother, Steve, made on TWW a couple of years ago.
Please refer to this page to read another disturbing story of Cymbala publishing a book that mentions the testimony of Dawn Robinson who says she is not portrayed truthfully.
A suggestion for members of TBT:
There is so much more that I could write but let me finish on this note. As I mentioned earlier, Cymbala and his wife are aging. It would seem that this is the right time to get the church on a proper footing for the future. Questions will continue to be raised until some answers are given.
If the financial questions are not being answered properly, let me make a suggestion. You can stop giving money to the church or only give money directly to a related ministry until you are given answers. For example, if the church supports a Rescue Mission, give directly to that mission as opposed to giving through the church. Always give your hard-earned money to an institution that is transparent. If the church sees the giving decline, you might find that they are more willing to open up the books.
If there is anything I can do to support the quest for transparency, let me know.
First?
“As best as I can figure out, the running of this massive ministry is in the hands of 78-year-old Jim Cymbala and his wife and quite possibly, some god friends.”
“God friends?” Not sure if that was intentional or a freudian slip, but either way, made me laugh. They just may think they are!
Same here, and I had the same thought.
Also, this from the post is EXCELLENT advice. This measure would transform the church, any church. Expect accountability and transparency. Set the expectation.
“You can stop giving money to the church or only give money directly to a related ministry until you are given answers. For example, if the church supports a Rescue Mission, give directly to that mission as opposed to giving through the church. Always give your hard-earned money to an institution that is transparent.”
Looks like my proof reading was not up to my usual low standards!
Other news: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/03/11/christian-apologist-sye-ten-bruggencate-took-advantage-of-a-vulnerable-woman/?fbclid=IwAR13wBJ4Q5YLGKUqhiEPFRhVVBmEmUSQ_cK_jH-yWW4w4zabl8RKe2iN3Yc
Another RZ: “Those are some heavy Ravi Zacharias-like vibes there. Bruggencate.”
“”This is my church, I started it.”
Words uttered by various celebrity pastors shortly before their fall from grace … Hybels, Driscoll, Mahaney, MacDonald, etc. etc.
“Cymbala and his wife are aging. It would seem that this is the right time to get the church on a proper footing for the future.” (Dee)
There will be no TBT post-Cymbala. TBT ‘is’ Cymbala.
Willow Creek declined post-Hybels … Mars Hill was dissolved post-Driscoll … Harvest Bible Chapel is struggling post-MacDonald … Sovereign Grace floundered when the Mahaney Malarkey exited … etc. etc. Folks in cults of personality worship celebrities; when the celebrities disappear, so do their worshipers.
It should be emphasized that much of what we see in the Christian Industrial Complex is not the work of God nor the genuine Body of Christ. Jesus has no authority or influence in much of mega-mania. Certainly there is a Church within the church called TBT, diamonds scattered in the coal. When Cymbala leaves, the genuine will separate from the counterfeit, moving along to other places in search of Jesus. Unfortunately, finding His presence in the current condition of the American church is a difficult task.
Finding Jesus’ presence, living indwelt by the Holy Spirit, sharing the Good News, discipling/disciplining (oneself), partnering with the remnant, IS the task, is our life.
Not ritual, not brick/mortar, not social club, not entertainment.
Seeking Jesus’ presence has always been the task. Jesus called out his followers. We can’t do that; we’re not God. However, we can listen to Him, follow His guidance and land in His presence among others.
If you look at the various obvious entities in the community labelled “church”, it is indeed an arduous & real task. However, women who are honest know this, “from time immemorial”, as Emma Thompson would say. Not new.
By the time she’s 15, a girl has experienced the improprieties of men, Emma Thompson states, in some capacity. A grope, a catcall, a leer or ogle, at the very least. On twitter recently a woman asked for examples of when a man first crossed the line in a girl’s experience. Thousands of examples lit up on twitter immediately.
So, from the get-go, I’ve always looked at the church with the question, “Are the men here respecting women as Jesus respects women? And what about the leadership?” – the litmus test (race could be another question for someone else – we should all have these questions, a litmus test).
Look at where we are even today after #MeToo & #ChurchToo. This TBT guy wants to shut everyone up. Fail. Beth Moore, previous post, finally leaves the SBC because they have FOREVER failed women. That took long enough. Etc. Nothing new.
Are women safe? Are girls safe? Are children safe? Are POC safe? Respected? On equal ground? If not, why bother?
Christa Brown & Jules Woodson can tell their stories ’til the cows come home and these institutions will plod on as “normal”. Who needs this?
In the presence of Jesus, all are safe & respected. Living in & seeking His presence among others is our sacred journey, not to be wasted on shiny glitzy evil imitations.
This is not new. Jesus walked this journey as did the faithful in the OT. Hebrews 11. They left their hometowns, cut ties with relatives, etc., always looking for the City of God which is to come while seeking Jesus’ presence on their sacred journeys here and now.
Julie Roys has also published an article. https://julieroys.com/apologist-resigned-sin-woman/
These sentences caught my attention:
That, plus the “vulnerable woman” statement has me really wondering if this was consensual. That’s all I’m going to say.
ION: Space exploration. And in particular, a problem facing UK-based space enthusiasts.
Along with other space-enthused Wartburgers, I’ve been following the progress of the SpaceX Starship prototype test-flights. The next one is SN11… but I’m particularly looking forward to SN17. The reason for this is that I’ll be able to google “SN17” without being spammed with search results for a Swindon postcode district.
IHTIH
I still keep seeing Godzilla tangled up in all those cables on the Brooklyn bridge, until he broke through the stone archway…
“spiritual language gamesmanship”
+++++++++++++++++
great term. it should be a thing.
heavens to betsy, if “winsome” can take, so can this.
“cut the spiritual language gamesmanship, pastor david” should be so engrained in the christian collective conscience that we just shorten it to “SLG”.
and then the logo (SLG in a circle with a diagonal line through it)
this would be real simple emoji…
(i’m still partial to bumper stickers, t-shirts, & baseball hats).
Muff Potter,
i see john travolta strutting down the street in angels flights.
Heck, you can see that on stage in “church-as-entertainment” all across America each Sunday! Accompanied by a very loud band, praise and worship team in tight pants, laser light show, etc. … while you relax with a cup of espresso from the shop in the foyer. All of this followed by an unchallenging dudebro sermonette which doesn’t mention Jesus. Coming to a church near you!
Nah, the church leadership in many places would fail that litmus test. They don’t care that Jesus respects women … it’s not relevant to their brand of ministry.
And that ‘is’ the litmus test for genuine ministry. Without it, Jesus is not present. They may give Him lip service, but He’s moved on down the road.
I was young and now am old. I’ve met very few folks who call themselves Christian who live like that. It’s been an honor to know a handful of such believers in my long life and to fellowship with them. Few churchmen know that the Kingdom of Heaven is on earth in the here and now … so they don’t attempt to enter it.
It’s possible to go to church all your life and miss Jesus entirely.
Max,
tcha
but they are trying too hard and look silly.
and no bee gees.
There’s a segment of the American church that likes silly unspiritual pastors … it makes them feel better about themselves.
In Other News, I made the world’s best ever coffee cheesecake yesterday. <>
IHTIH
That’s one reason I like silence in church so much. The words can drown out the Presence.
If Kenny Everett was still around, he could get richer than a televangelist selling this kit to Celebrity Megapastors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJtBWJS0v7s
Nick Bulbeck,
well, now all i can think about is cheesecake!
and since i can’t have any of the world’s best cheesecake, no, i don’t think it helps.
share the recipe and I’m sure that will change things 🙂
As well as some music, laughter, applause.
I was an active member at BT for years. Not once did we have an annual business meeting as required in the by-laws, taking place on the 2nd Sunday in January every year. It never happened. In fact, if I remember correctly, Pastor Cymbala and his wife Carol would be away on their annual vacation during that time of year, as we always had guest speakers in the middle of January.
We also did not have any special meetings to vote on mortgages, or changing the church to an Article 9 church in 2015 where the congregation no longer can vote anymore.
The only thing Pastor Cymbala ever did was casually bring up some business related issue during a regular church service, not in any way a separate, formal business meeting for members. Hundreds, if not thousands of visitors and non-members were present during our regular church services. It was never clear that this was supposed to be treated like a formal business issue. At the end of his speech, he would say to the congregation, “all in favor, say, “aye,” to which the entire church would respond with a resounding, “aye!” We had no idea this was a formal vote of any kind, and again, this was not a separate business meeting as required in the by-laws.
The church does have a Board, as the website forum points out (https://www.brooklyntabforum.com/bod-and-church-bylaws/), along with some Deacons. Prior to 2015 while the church was still an Article 8 church with required congregational voting, we as the membership never once voted for any of those Board members or Deacons. As far as I can tell, they were all appointed internally by Pastor Cymbala, and possibly a few other leaders, most of whom are probably yes-men. It does not look like the Board, Pastors, or Deacons provide any real accountability over Pastor Cymbala or his family for that matter.
I as a long-term member was deceived. I am stunned to see that the church provided false information about formal business meetings, that did not exist, in paperwork they filed for loan requests. Never once as a donor to the church did I see any kind of detailed financial statement. Since it was my first real church experience I had no idea that as a member I should have expected certain basic standards in financial transparency and governance.
The way we were taught was that God put the leadership in charge, and that we have to trust their authority, discernment, and standards. Who were we to ask questions? That is how we were taught. Any questioning of finances or otherwise was viewed as a questioning of God himself. I understand now that this is not true, but when in the middle of it, I was clueless and thought that I was being a good Christian by staying in line and trusting my leaders.
It’s also possible to participate in brick n’ mortar w/funded admin & find Jesus/HS presence.
Key: find Jesus/HS present. And keep finding God present. Especially during challenging circumstances. (Ex: Leader’s BFF or Big Funder is found to be a predator. What’s done?) Otherwise, vote w/feet & wallet.
Key: deal-breakers such as NOT: respecting, listening to, believing: POC, women, children, elderly, less income, all vulnerable, disenfranchised, under-represented, in society.
Key: Transparency.
Love God, love neighbor as self.
Easier said than done. A notable blog that touts this can be brutal to women commenters, for example, and not moderated by the so-called Love God/Love Neighbor “Leader”. Deal-breaker.
Well-stated. Same here.
After following TWW for some time, this may be a common experience.
We never felt burned or traumatized. We would notice that we were growing past what the church group had to offer & they weren’t interested in what we had to share, so we moved on. Not judgmental about the group, only that we chose not to be a part of the problem & there was nothing we could do about it as participants except leave, keep growing, & find discipleship & fellowship elsewhere.
Whew! Pastor Cymbala has put a whole new spin on authoritarianism. He is in complete unfettered control of The Brooklyn Tabernacle, with no accountability structure in place by members or elders. The congregation is in blind submission to Cymbala. It really is “his” church.
God will judge church leaders for deceiving you and other members … for taking advantage of the trust you had in them.
Please tell me that you didn’t eat a slice right after your haggis sandwich.
Coffee and cheesecake are two of my favorite things. The thought of combining them has aroused my appetite.
Former Member,
“The only thing Pastor Cymbala ever did was casually bring up some business related issue during a regular church service… …It was never clear that this was supposed to be treated like a formal business issue. At the end of his speech, he would say to the congregation, “all in favor, say, “aye,” to which the entire church would respond with a resounding, “aye!””
+++++++++++++++++++++
goodness, the typical pavlov conditioning automaton behavior that happens in a church service. WHAT – A – SCHEISTER. he knew exactly what he was doing.
“Amen?”– the signal, “Amen”– the conditioned response
stand up sit down stand up sit down, all on command
i caught myself once nodding my head in heart-felt agreement…. only problem was i wasn’t even paying attention to what was said.
talk about a “jeepers!” moment
“blinkers!”, even.
i instantly sobered up. (“what have i just done?”)
that was the beginning of the end for me.
no, i was done long before that. there’ve been many of those jeepers-deal-breaker moments.
The silence can act as a counterpoint to the sound, a time of reflection.
Introverts can understand that.
Not so the three-ring-circus of backslapping grandstanding used-car salesmen extroverts that churches cultivate today. Like a constant nonstop YouTube channel or Twitter feed.
elastigirl,
I use 600ml of crême fraiche fae the local Co-Op, with three eggs and just the right amount of cornflour (I think that’s corn starch in Americaland). The main thing is to whisk this very bigly – that’s what makes it fluffy. Then add the right amount of chocolate melted with the right amount of dubble cream and coffee essence. The “right” amount depends greatly on your personal taste and is arrived at by trial and error. Then bake it on quite a low heat (100 C in our fan oven, for instance) for around an hour. When it’s cool, put it in the fridge for several hours. If you try and eat it too soon after it’s cooked, I’ve found it has a slight scrambled-egg sort of consistency, so it’s worth making it the day before you want to impress your friends with it. Also I believe very strongly that it SHOULD be spelt “dubble”.
Max,
I refer the Honourable Gentleman to my comment above!
Nick Bulbeck,
Thanks, Nick!
And really good to see you.
i’m sure dubble is the right thing. reminds me of
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble
…and something about eye of newt,….frog something….dog something… (probably not abbie someone)…
all nice cooking ideas, so it’s fitting.
remind me what dubble cream is. in americaland we have half & half, whipping cream, and heavy whipping cream. all in liquid form
Pastors. Called. The calling. Wonder how it happens.
https://heavy.com/news/nikole-mitchell/
elastigirl,
Conditioning is the right term. During those moments in the church service where Pastor Cymbala casually brought up a business related issue, they usually took place after praise and worship, and the choir singing. We as the congregation were on an emotional and spiritual high after that. How could you not, after listening to the 6-time Grammy Award winning choir enrapture the building? There was no way we knew what was coming next was a trick.
The same is said about the choir. He makes sure everyone knows it is “my wife’s choir.”
Ava Aaronson,
Max,
elastigirl,
Thanks for the support. I do not understand how the Pastoral staff, Deacons, and Board allow this to continue. There are some well meaning people in leadership. What will it take for them to realize that no matter how much good they think is coming out of the church, ignoring these glaring violations is not an option? When will they realize their lack of proper oversight and accountability makes them complicit in whatever wrongdoing is happening behind the scenes, known and unknown? When will they repent, resign, and make public statements admitting their complicity, coming clean with specifics they are aware of where wrongdoing took place?
So who is being glorified? Jesus?
Certainly, there are folks in the choir and members in the church who attend TBT with a heart to glorify Jesus. Can the same be said about TBT leaders?
The best way I know how to explain is we were taught to believe that part of having a heart to glorify Jesus meant submitting to the authority of the church leaders, especially Pastor Cymbala and Carol. All the other church leaders submitted to them too. It did not seem wrong when there was individual ownership (such as “my wife’s choir”) because in the next sentence, he would reinforce how we were all there to glorify the name of the Lord. I can see all of the gaslighting and manipulative language in hindsight. At the time, everything centered around what we thought was serving the Lord.
When it comes to the leaders, there are those who I believe want to glorify Jesus, but they are deceived and diluted. I imagine their justification of ignoring wrongdoing hinges on looking at all the good the church has done, thinking that protecting the church means supporting (enabling) Pastor Cymbala at all costs. I hope they realize one day soon that protecting the church really means protecting the people, along with the integrity of the finances. The leaders are so busy selling themselves out by protecting the shepherd (Pastor Cymbala and his family), they have failed to recognize they are supposed to be protecting the sheep. Where are the resignations and public statements of repentance and admissions of complicity?
Excellent question.
Personality cults always lead you to believe that, while everything is really centered around the man in the pulpit.
The problem with deception is you don’t know you are deceived because you are deceived. A masquerade is tough to detect when you completely trust those in authority. Folks with good hearts and a genuine desire to glorify Jesus are deceived all the time in the Christian Industrial Complex. It’s a sad day.
elastigirl,
I forgot that dubble cream would be called something else over there on the left! Dubble cream generally has 50g of fat per 100ml. So, you don’t eat it for your health, by and large. The thing is that the high fat content makes it easier to mix it with melted chocolate – although that, too, is probably a matter of taste, and you could probably get away with lower fat.
Nick Bulbeck,
The nearest US equivalent is heavy cream, which has 36% to 40% fat, depending on the dairy. It’s possible to buy some double cream imported from the UK, but I’ve found that heavy cream is decadent enough for most recipes.
^^^^^This right here.
When well-meaning leaders lend their good names to a corrupt church, they strengthen the autocratic leader’s hold on the place. They improve the reputation of an undeserving church.
Ordinary members also do this to a lesser degree but in greater numbers.
The leaders need to stop. They are not challenging anything or changing it or cleaning it up from the inside. The best way to fix a bad church is for good people to leave. This goes double for leaders, especially if they tell themselves, “Well if I go, I’ll just be replaced by a yes-man,” or “If I go, nobody will organize the _______.” Or simply, “How can I explain this to my wife and kids?”
When nicer, kinder leaders do step aside, ordinary members notice and wonder about the hollow reasons given.
Max,
Bait and switch?
Seeking to be closer to the Lord … end up under tyranny of a lord, some say christo-fascist, along with the herd.
Nick Bulbeck,
Friend,
“dubble cream”
++++++++++++
i don’t think it’s available (except as Friend mentions at a specialty shop). Wondering how it’s made… condensed? letting moisture evaporate?
never thought about this til today.
now, about clotted cream… is that whipped cream? double cream with air beaten into it?
(cream can get complicated, it seems… i’m waking up slowly here, so it doesn’t take much)
Clotted cream is like heavy cream so thick you have to spoon it out of the container. It’s almost the texture of sour cream, but with the taste of whipping cream.
If this goes on much longer, we’ll all be chipping in for a TWW trip to Devon, where we will have to quarantine. Imagine the awfulness of sitting alone in a hotel room with somebody leaving tea, scones, fresh strawberries, and clotted cream outside your door, and nothing to do but look at the beautiful sea from your solitary balcony… 🙂
Friend,
…!!
(well, you’ve got me thinking… a trip to a grocery store, my own hand mixer mixing til just before butter, and a drive to a certain beautiful spot…
you know, the ol’ devon-strawberries-&-cream-fantasy-on-a-shoestring thing.)
now i’m thinking about making home-made ice cream, with part ice cream mixture (darkest of dark chocolate) and part heaps of whipped cream beaten til just before butter.
so you get the intense chocolate flavor & dense texture, and you get the whipped cream-cream-cream flavor and texture…
guess i should get an ice cream maker first.
elastigirl,
to clarify, because this is very important, somehow the whipped cream is incorporated into the ice cream mixture before it sets and without mixing it in thus disappearing.
so, it would be 60% deepest dark chocolate dense ice cream, with 40% patches of whipped cream all frozen together.
no, just putting whipped cream on top wouldn’t be the same thing.
and then we can talk about marbling buttercream frosting into it.
elastigirl,
maybe the way to do it is make each thing separately, then combine big spoonfulls together laced with butter cream piping into another container, somehow press it down to remove air pockets, put it in the freezer….
is there an ice cream doctor in the house?
Will you settle for a diagnostician?
Friend,
SURE!
ice cream advice, please.
elastigirl,
Use the heaviest cream you can find. Pasteurized cream is nicer than ultra pasteurized. If the recipe calls for eggs, be sure to cook and temper… or buy pasteurized eggs. After mixing up the recipe, refrigerate it overnight before putting it into the ice cream maker. Once it’s in the ice cream maker, check it when it starts to firm, so you don’t end up with flecks of butter (an ice cream maker is a lot like a churn, eh?). Remove it from the machine when it reaches the consistency of soft serve. Transfer it to a chilled container and stick it in the freezer to harden and develop flavors.
If you’re adding chocolate shavings or chopped nuts or caramel, these should be well chilled and poured in at the very end of churning.
“BUT SOULS ARE BEING SAVED!!!!!!!”
(Note “Souls”, not People.)
Friend,
Wow! Dr. Ice Cream has arrived!
awesome tips! you have lots of experience.
do you have any tips for how to make the deepest darkest chocolate? something truly dark in color and flavor.
now to get an ice cream maker…..
“Why men great ttil they gotta be great?” – Lizzo
One of her fans: “Meaning: men hold the highest seats of power on the planet. They’re constantly appointed greatness & yet cannot seem to do any good with it.”
Nick Bulbeck,
That sounds great except for the coffee essence. I’m not a fan of coffee flavoured things, although I do quite like coffee itself.
I lean toward a balance between intense chocolate flavor and creamy texture, and don’t care how dark it is. We usually use two different types of chocolate for complexity, and about 1/4 tsp chocolate essence (note term) from France. Espresso powder and coffee-adjacent ingredients can boost intensity but might tip toward bitterness.
Follow machine instructions with care; impatience leads to chilled soup that turns into a cold rock. You might get a fine mesh strainer if you’re initially heating ingredients, especially eggs. A great primer from 1997 is a small Cook’s Illustrated hardcover volume called How to Make Ice Cream: An Illustrated Step-By-Step Guide…
Try chocolate essence instead. 🙂
= Mega-mania, personality-driven, Christless church in America.
Friend,
thank you, Dr.!
Playbook of WW2 fascists … so now the term christo-fascists has emerged.
Ruth Ben-Ghiat documents & exposes the playbook via leaders of the last 100 years. These leaders were democratically elected then manipulated democracy into a tyranny, as documented in her book “Strongmen”. (Nina Burleigh has a companion book that documents women who support these men leaders.)
Seems similar to calvinistas’ path however, my guess is this path is not limited to SBC or calvinistas or America. There have always been tyrants.
Ben-Ghiat exposes the uniqueness of DEMOCRACIES or ELECTED leaders manipulating a participatory body into a tyrannical empire. Seems regressive.
Church, it seems, is voluntary, a body of the priesthood of a group of followers of Christ, until it is not.
(Not = opaque, silenced, covenants, singular empowered male leader, bro-hood of singular empowered male leaders each with their own dynasty of followers & the bro-hood leaders uphold each other, etc.).
Bait with God-seeking, then switch to tyrannical control by the god-appointed leader. There are probably red flag indicators of how this evolves.
The followers of Jesus need awareness, discernment, courage, and the will to steer clear or walk away from fakes or backslidden or going-off-the-rails leaders/fellowships while continually seeking God. The NT addresses this. It happens.
elastigirl,
🙂
YRR = Hitler Youth
I used to like kwafi-flavoured things, but not kwafi; now I like both! But you can use orange flavouring with chocolate as well. Apart from white chocolate – use lemon with that.
Also “kwafi” is how they pronounce it in Noo Joizy. Apparently.
Although “l’essence” is French for petrol (or gasoline) – maybe a bit TOO intense for my taste.
Nick Bulbeck,
So you don’t use coffee petrol in your cheesecake? Sooooooo confusing! 😉
More seriously, chocolate essence differs from chocolate extract and chocolate liquor, all sold here.
Friend,
One thing I do occasionally use with chocolate is Laphroaig whisky. It’s an exceptionally smoky single malt (that is, the barley is malted over a peat fire rather than in warm air, so it absorbs phenols from the smoke – a little like Lapsang Souchong). Goes especially well with dark chocolate recipes!
Not cheap, though…
You’re just begging my Women’s Christian Temperance Union ancestresses to drop down from the family tree and stare at me, aren’t you?
#StickingWithChocolate
Friend,
Well, I’d actually urge them to go for moderation over abstinence.
It could work…
Good point. Outside of Lakewood surviving the death of John Osteen, I don’t know one that has.
Even denominational-based megachurches are vulnerable. FBC Dallas has never really regained the prominence post-Criswell. Fellowship Church is nowhere near what it was in its heyday when I was a member, post-Young forget it. Likely the same with Village Church and Chandler, especially with them spinning off their multi-site locations and concentrating solely on Flower Mound.
Cults rarely outlive their founders.
Most of the time that’s just the way it goes.
Sometimes – like Jonestown or Heaven’s Gate – it’s deliberate.
Only occasionally do you find a Brigham Young who can take over and turn the one-man cult into a self-sustaining religious system.
Whenever I hear the name “Criswell”, I think of the 1950s Celebrity Psychic “The Amazing Criswell” (best known today as the narrator for Plan Nine from Outer Space). Trademark tag line “CRISWELL PREDICTS — I PREDICT…”
CALVINJUBEND, actually.
The “old” Lakewood did pass away when John Osteen died. Joel Osteen established his own new & improved version of Lakewood. The two bear very little resemblance. The elder Osteen was a Gospel preacher; the younger Osteen is more psychologist than preacher.
While agreeing wit you, I would add that his grasp of psychology is so shallow as to be potentially harmful. The reliance on sola prosperity is enough to cause concern.
IMO, pastors need to stick with preaching the Gospel and steer clear of disciplines they don’t fully understand … there are professionals trained to deal with mental and emotional issues. Pastor-psychologists who dabble in Nouthetic counseling usually do more damage than good.