The Tadpole Galaxy-NASA
“Faking is a social activity in which people act together to draw a veil over unwanted realities and encourage each other in the exercise of their illusory powers. “-Roger Scruton
This is one of those posts in which I try to get you caught up on some things going on that really don’t need full posts at this time.
JD Greear appears to know how to protect himself in the coming investigation into the hiring of Brian Loritts
Brian Loritts appears to have settled into his $850,000 home in a tony section of Raleigh (Todd sent me the lovely pics today). Lady Whistledown would be impressed. For those of you from Silicon Valley, this is a very expensive home in the Raleigh area in which I live. It looks like he is settling in for the long haul. Recently, Cassidy McGillicuddy of Roll to Disbelieve wrote J.D. Greear’s Inept Response to the Bryan Loritts Scandal Reveals So Much. It appears she knows a bit more than we do at TWW.
Brian Loritts, who has an extremely suspicious doctorate, has been accused of covering up his brother-in-law’s sex abuse scandal at a previous church. His b-i-l, Rick Trotter, had a penchant for filming women in bathrooms as well as up their skirts in churches. For those of you who have missed the hoopla, read the suggested post-in its entirety. I would like to pull out what I found the most interesting. Rachel Denhollander applauded this decision. My guess is she assumed that this was going to be a G.R.A.C.E type of investigation. But, McGillicuddy claims otherwise. In fact, investigating Greear’s decision won’t even be on the table!
So yes, J.D. Greear hired Bryan Loritts, who almost certainly shielded his family member from the law. Greear didn’t care about Loritts’ sexism and very obviously can’t even relate it to the SBC’s flagrant mishandling of sex-abuse cases. He just wanted to convince Black Southern Baptists (and performatively-progressive White ones) that the SBC totally cares about eliminating racism, y’all.
…It’s crystal-clear to me that J.D. Greear hired Bryan Loritts for his anti-racism bona fides. The SBC is performing faux-concern about racism right now, and J.D. Greear has positioned himself at the head of the faux-change faux-racial-justice side of the SBC. So he really needs to have a Black minister on staff, especially one whose career has involved a lot of racial-justice action.
Concentrate here.
But just in case, y’all, just to get everyone off their case, they’ve asked Guidepost Solutions LLC to investigate the matter. It’s part of their Caring Well thingie, after all! They might have ignored it utterly in June, but now that everyone’s bein’ all mean about the hiring, they’ll reluctantly return to its principles.
…However, since their investigation only centers on exactly what Bryan Loritts did in 2010 and not on how appropriate Summit’s hiring decision was in 2020, I don’t see how this helps anybody…
… Anybody, that is, except J.D. Greear.
At most, the results of Guidepost’s investigation will allow Greear fire Loritts without further ado — or to justify his hiring decision and subsequent allegedly-sham investigation.
In other words, it appears that Greear will not be held accountable by this group for his hiring decision. In my opinion, Greear knew exactly who he hired in June 2020. The question that I can’t get answered is, “Why?” Greear knew better. After all, he approved the Caring Well curriculum that emphasizes background checks. Does anyone out there think Greear doesn’t know how to get this done? This hiring left me cold. All of Greear’s tears at Caring Well appear to be a sideshow and these Baptist boys can do it better than anybody else. Greear’s hiring of Loritts gives me all that I need to know about the concern of the SBC leaders for abuse in the denomination.
It’s time that churches and parachurch organizations stop using NDAs to cover-up for payouts for sex abuse. Want to sign a petition?
Lori Anne Thompson had a settlement from Ravi Zacharias. Unfortunately, she can’t speak about it. She wants to do something about this. The Christian Post’s Brandon Showalter wrote: Victim of alleged sexual misconduct asks to be released from NDA with Ravi Zacharias.
Canadian Lori Anne Thompson, whom Zacharias first met at a luncheon in 2014 where he was speaking, posted a screenshot earlier this week of an email between Boz Tchividjian, her attorney, and a lawyer from Miller & Martin, the law firm that is conducting an investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct.
“I am assuming that we have not received a response because the estate of Ravi Zacharias has refused to release my clients from the confidentiality/non-disparagement clause of the settlement agreement? Please confirm,” Tchividjian writes in the email correspondence.
A Miller & Martin attorney responds: “Your assumption is correct.”
…According to letters that Lori Anne wrote and sent to third parties before the NDA, Zacharias allegedly solicited sexually explicit photos from Thompson and engaged in sex over the phone. The apologist denied the accusations in 2017.
…Tchividjian has argued that by making that 2017 statement in denying the claims, Zacharias was not abiding by the confidentiality terms in the NDA while the Thompsons had made the difficult choice to honor their word by staying quiet. Thompson has maintained throughout that she and her husband signed the NDA under great duress and that the couple has nothing they do not wish to be disclosed. Two days after the apologist died, Thompson put out a video statement, asking Zacharias’ family to release her from the terms of the agreement.
Church and parachurch organizations often use NDAs to prevent recipients of payouts or former employees from speaking out about their experiences in an organization. These are rarely used to merely protect someone who received counseling from a church. It is my opinion that they are used for more nefarious reasons.
In the meantime, Kara MIllion started a petition at Change. org: Release Lori Anne Thompson from her NDA Regarding Ravi Zacharias I signed it and so have 1300 others. I think it’s time the Evangelical Industrial Complex understands that people like us are getting tired of this nonsense.
Dave Ramsey/Ramsey Solutions wrote a crazy letter to Bob Smietana leading me to consider that he is emotionally unstable.
Bob Smietana of Religion News wrote Is Dave Ramsey’s empire the ‘best place to work in America’? Say no and you’re out The quotes by former employees from this article are quite illuminating. I’m sure Ramsey was not amused.
At a staff meeting in July, Ramsey railed at his staff after an employee sued Ramsey Solutions for firing her for having premarital sex, which is against company policy, and said he would pay the price to protect what he had built out of love for his employees.
“I am sick of dealing with all this stuff,” Ramsey bellowed, according to a recording obtained by Religion News Service. “I’m so tired of being falsely accused of being a jerk when all I’m doing is trying to help people stay in line.”
But there appear to be some cracks in his carefully constructed image. Here are some comments from current and former employees and their family members.
Spousal interviews:
Heather (ed. her husband was interviewing for a job) was more skeptical. For one thing, there was the spousal interview. In his 2011 book “EntreLeadership,” Ramsey recommends that companies vet spouses to make sure their hire is not “married to crazy.”
COVID
…From the beginning, Ramsey downplayed the virus. His March 2, 2020 radio show began with a long rant against the news media, who, he said, were overstating the threat.
“You would think that the black plague was coming through the U.S., listening to people whine,” he told his audience. “You guys have lost your mind out there.”
He went on to say that the virus only affected the weak and infirm and that everyone else should get on with business as usual. He vowed to keep the company’s live events rolling, warning there would be no refunds.
…Within a few days, a second team member tested positive. Headquarters was shut down on March 20. Although the work-from-home experiment went well, the company’s leaders soon decided that Ramsey was not a work-from-home employer.
…On May 4, the company’s offices reopened and, despite at least 100 positive cases in the subsequent seven months, have remained open since.
One man is fired due to his wife’s comments on Facebook and they fight back, refusing to sign an NDA.
…Ramsey’s return to in-person work frustrated Heather….A few weeks later, Jon was fired. In his exit interview, Armando Lopez, head of human resources at Ramsey, confirmed that the cause was his wife’s social media comment, according to a recording of the meeting.
Ramsey Solutions offered $18,000 in severance, provided the Fulks would sign a nondisclosure agreement and agree never to make any negative comments about Ramsey.
The couple refused, forfeiting the severance. The company later claimed in a cease-and-desist letter that Ramsey policies that Jon signed at his hiring required him to keep details about Ramsey confidential.
After an anonymous person reported him to OSHA
hat led to an angry tirade from Ramsey during a staff meeting last May. After ranting about how the pandemic was affecting his golf game, he said the company had told OSHA it was not going to do anything in response to the complaint.
“So whoever you are, you moron, you did absolutely no good, except piss me off,” he told staff. “You are not welcome here if you are willing to do stuff like that. If you are really scared and you really think that leadership is trying to
However, it gets even weirder.
Smietana wrote Ramsey Solutions asking for a response to some questions. The email back is something to behold and causes me to think that Ramsey may be in need of some counseling. Full Ramsey Solutions Response Please read the entire thing at the provided link. The following is only part of the letter.
“Thanks for reaching out. We want to confirm for you that you are right, we are horrible evil people. We exist to simply bring harm to our team, take advantage of our customers, and spread COVID. And YOU figured it all out, wow. Who would have guessed that an unemployed guy, oh I am sorry, a “freelance reporter” would be the one to show us how horrible we are so we can change and to let the world know of our evil intent, secrets, and complete disregard for decency…..but YOU did it, you with all your top notch investigative skills have been able to weave together a series of half-truths to expose our evil ways. You are truly amazing.
Because your personal virtue is so incredible, we want to help you with your hit piece and confirmation bias. We actually have audio of the time Chris Hogan farted in church and you should have a listen, it is truly horrendous.
I suspect we will be hearing more about Ramsey in the near future and it won’t have anything to do with “financial solutions.”
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What a week!
The way Greear & Loritts have escaped unrelenting pressure to this point leads me to suspect there is more going on behind the scenes that led to the new ‘investigation’. Julie Roys’ podcasts w/one of Trotter’s victims and how she was treated by Summit leaders tells the real story – they didn’t care.
Dave Ramsey is a nut job. He just keeps on proving it over and over. How much more do people need to see to be convinced?
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Ramsey makes money, full stop absolutely nothing matters more than that, EVER. I was on a preacher board some time ago when at least 20 pastors were discussing firing a secretary with children one of the kids was extremely ill and would die without medical intervention. The secretary had to take some time off, (a few days) when the head pastor needed her to type up sermon notes and other important tasks. To a one, they all talked about how canning her would make her a better Christian and we need to stand firm against laziness and even having the gall of giving her family medical coverage was socialism/communism. One of the regular members spoke up defending the secretary and was literally trashed by the others. It almost led to violence like a lot of church interactions I have personally witnessed.
I would like to reiterate the phrase from Anna, they don’t care, I mean truly they don’t care at all.
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Here are two interesting posts on Ramsey:
https://julieroys.com/ramseys-best-place-to-work-say-no-and-out/
https://julieroys.com/ramsey-good-ole-boy-evangelical-complex/
There was some interesting discussion about these two posts on Facebook when Julie Roy’s posted them there.
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“In my opinion, Greear knew exactly who he hired in June 2020. The question that I can’t get answered is, “Why?” Greear knew better.”
As for the whys, it’s worthwhile to remember timing and apparent SBC priorities. The 2018 priority was evidently creating a narrative and program on the abuse front for the SBC, especially as pressure from headlines grew. The evident priority for the SBC (and coincidentally TGC and others) the next year appeared related to creating narratives and signaling associated priorities regarding all things racial. Fast forward to 2020:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200607000744/https://www.brnow.org/news/bryan-loritts-to-join-the-summits-leadership-team/
“As one of the church’s executive pastors, Loritts will oversee leadership development, work with the church’s ethnic diversity initiative and join the multi-campus preaching team, according to an email Greear sent to church members today (May 24) that was obtained by the Biblical Recorder. “He has been a leader in the movement of churches seeking to reflect the gospel through multiethnic reconciliation, a true reconciliation that demonstrates the power of the gospel to bring people together as one,” Greear wrote.”
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I believe a NDA does not apply to illegal activity so the RZ family is on shaky ground other than they might have the money to outlast accusers in court.
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That the Ramsey letter was “ From: Public Relations” is quite something, as is upholding nondisclosure in the other case.
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Dave Ramsey, “I’m so tired of being falsely accused of being a jerk when all I’m doing is trying to help people stay in line.”
No, you have delivered absolute proof that you really *are* a jerk in writing by sending that letter.
Also: he looks the jerk.
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This outlasting the accuser in court this is holy ground and a sacrament in the faith. I don’t get why it is but trust me it is, even more so than Jesus dying on the cross and His resurrection. Actually, that has no meaning, it never has and never will EVER.
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“All of Greear’s tears at Caring Well appear to be a sideshow and these Baptist boys can do it better than anybody else.” (Dee)
There must be a seminary course on this or a gimmick book they pass around. Some preachers have a particular knack for being able to cry without tears at just the right spot in their sermon. It’s a common technique to draw a gullible audience into their scheme. Sobs, pauses, broken voices, wiping tears away that don’t exist are quite effective.
Caring Well?! Only for dudebros. New Calvinists cover for and protect each other until the potato gets too hot to handle … then it’s CYA time.
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“I suspect we will be hearing more about Ramsey in the near future and it won’t have anything to do with “financial solutions.”” (Dee)
I think we’ve all heard enough!!
Dave Ramsey continues to work gullible church folks to his advantage. As long as he has a market segment that is willingly ignorant, he’ll be around for a while longer. The stuff he sells is really financial management 101 that your Daddy taught you or you should have learned in high school. But, church leaders love to have him in their toolbox because of his emphasis on tithing; it’s a win-win relationship. So, pastors who know he is a bad-boy behind the scene put up with him … but as the old song goes “God don’t like it and I don’t either.”
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You would think in these trying times crying out for real leaders to bridge the racial divides in this country and in the church, Greear and the SBC could find someone with more credibility than a guy (Loritts) touting an unquestionably fake doctorate (https://julieroys.com/dr-bryan-loritts-touts-questionable-doctorate-from-school-with-f-rating/) and who covered up and passed along to another church a caught sexual predator. Of course, that was after he oversaw the knowing employment of prolific pedophile, Pete Newman, WHILE THE PEDOPHILE WAS OUT ON BAIL for committing those crimes!!
There is a plethora of more-credible leaders in this field they could hire. I hear Jussie Smollett is available. Maybe James MacDonald needs a new angle to pimp the Gospel. Andy Savage sees opportunity. Newman is doing 2 life sentences in prison, finally, but in today’s age of multi-campus tele-pastoring, I’m sure he arrangements could be made with the warden for him to pastor via Zoom.
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brian,
Yup… I have seen/heard similar stuff… get the “leaders” behind closed doors and…
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hat led to an angry tirade from Ramsey during a staff meeting last May. After ranting about how the pandemic was affecting his golf game,
COVID affecting his golf game…… .. also the quote that it only effects the elderly and sick….
that says it all to me….. I could go on a triad, but why…. IMHO it does not get any worse than these two comments…
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Reading the response to Smietana, the thought occurs that the writer seems overstimulated; “7% solution?”
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A lot of leaders are able to put a pretty good mask when they speak so we really don’t know how they are. With Dave Ramsey if you listed to his radio show you get a pretty good idea of who he is really is. This includes how he treats callers and the words he uses to describe people.
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Yeah, the more I have read about Dave Ramsey, the more it does appear that he is a jerk. I know individuals who have used his money management principles to get out of debt which is very helpful. However, his responses whether in the gatherings at his company, or his email back to Bob is really disappointing (actually very arrogan. Also, the situation where he fired a single pregnant woman from his company but then allowed the other guy from his company who was rolling out a book to continue (can’t remember his name right now) seems very hypocritical. Truly sad situation
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I think there is more as well.
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No, they don’t care.
They have hearts of granite, no feeling flesh at all:
“And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there…”
— Ecclesiastes 3:16 —
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There used to be a guy who did this called Clark Howard. I don’t know if he had any religious affiliation but he was the micest guy. His advice was not dissimilar to Ramsey’sbut it was less of the *you must, you idiot* stuff.
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dee,
PS I disagree with his tithing advice. However, I believe this stand was necessary to get this program into the churches. Ramsey is smart.
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27 million COVID cases in U.S. with 447 million deaths … and he’s worried about his golf game while folks suffer and families grieve?! This sort of comment shows you where Ramsey’s heart is and proves you can believe the bad-boy stuff you hear about him. But, boy, he can sure give useful info about financial management, so the church puts up with him … which proves the American church is indeed in the mess you hear about everyday on TWW.
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No doubt about it. American pastors adore the man because he has a way of getting into the pockets of the pew to toss more money into the offering plates. The Holy Spirit couldn’t get them to tithe, so they bring in Ramsey. It’s a win-win situation between church leaders (many who know he is a bad-boy) and Ramsey (which uses them as a market segment).
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brian,
That is an awful story. Thank you for sharing it.
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– found in a box of Cracker Jack. Plastic prize.
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JDV,
Good quote. I had a discussion with a journalist on this matter. There are a number of great African American pastors in the SBC who do not have the baggage the Loritts has. They would have been thrilled to have a position in a megachurch.Why Loritts? His dad is a big wig and on The gospel Coalition Council. Did that have anything to do with it? Was this an attempt to clean up his image? I truly don’t know.
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Great comment. There are lawyers involved.I am aware of what transpired and believe the information will be the final blow in the coffin that is RZIM. They need to close shop and go home.
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The final proof that Ramsey is a thin skinned authoritarian who uses church ling to control.
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The Patterson group, just prior to Greear, used to lay down on the stage and use their fists to pound on the flow for emphasis.
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Abuse Crusher,
Some of us wrote about the Loritts situation in 2017. And not one pastor in the TGC crowd gave a hoot. He kept getting invited to speak everywhere. http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/03/27/why-is-bryan-loritts-featured-at-the-village-church-website-doesnt-matt-chandler-get-it/
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He goes down, in my opinion, as just another evangelical jerk. I have a question for him. Does he really think he is walking in the footsteps of Jesus?
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Appropriate!
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dee,
The Committee.
Back slappin’ surpasses truth tellin’.
“Leaders” not leaders.
A distinct type.
In a certain well-defined boat, don’t rock that boat.
Inner circle code of conduct of “ethics” not ethics.
Maintaining power & image & holdings.
i.e.: how Epstein & Dershowitz & Maxwell et al found each other.
Until Julie K. Brown & Brad Edwards & Courtney Wild et al broke up the gig.
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“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!!!!”
But then, do you really expect anything else from CHRISTIANS(TM)?
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Uhhh…
Isn’t that a behavior of a three-year-old throwing a Temper Tantrum?
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In the words of the prophet Pink Floyd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ
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First Things First, and What’s REALLY Important.
Remind you of any other recent public figure?
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Such a joke, not funny, how these so-called “Xians” handle their sex scandals & authoritarian greed.
Shopping here online for a pair of jeans and the website takes me across the globe to where the jeans are actually manufactured. Full disclosure.
And “Xians” can’t even get themselves together enough to tell the truth in plain sight about what’s up with their orgs & their peeps. Losers. No wonder they are authoritarian in leadership. Obviously influence is not working for this “Xian” crowd.
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dee,
My thoughts also…. recently in group that read the passage in Philippians starting off… “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus….”…
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Any con man can tell you:
CHRISTIANS ARE THE EASIEST OF EASY MARKS.
Just know the tribal recognition codes and the right buzzwords, and they’re easy pickings.
Who will defend Gawd’s Anointed(TM) to the death while being taken to the cleaners.
Eternal Salvation (and the threatened loss of same) is quite a motivator.
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Crying on cue, like an actor onstage.
What was that Koine Greek word for “Actor Onstage”?
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Whoever has the most money to pour into their shysters WINS.
“TITHE! TITHE!! TITHE!!! TITHE!!!! TITHE!!!!!”
It’d make a lot more sense if courts just auctioned off the verdict to the highest bidder.
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Dave Ramsey’s advice including what he calls “baby steps” is typically good advice for say a young couple trying to get out of debt. As someone who for a while listened to his radio show a lot, Ramsey did generally have some good advice. Ramsey is though, basically stuck in black and white thinking a lot which I am sure is because it is much easier to teach something like that vs. there not always be a simple solution.
Some of what Dave Ramsey claims on retirement planning such as being able to sustainably withdraw 10% of what you have saved is basically bad advice according most other financial planners. Most others would recommend a 4-5% withdrawal rate. Follow Ramsey’s advice and you will in all likelihood find yourself out of money way before you die.
It is fairly easy to see why Dave Ramsey would fire a lower level employee who became pregnant but not Chris Hogan who wrote a book and had book tours. The lower level employee was easily replaceable or expendable. It would be a lot harder to replace Chris Hogan and the money Chris Hogan brought in. Here is a lot of information on Chris Hogan and what he did according to his ex wife:
https://melissajhogan.com/my-statement-regarding-ramsey-solutions/?fbclid=IwAR3hdvWqnd5udo1lrIkK8SqD0EiuFbP0sH0oi78ckdAY3QMrEuKij54lJMM
If you also do a Google search for Chris Hogan you will see how widely Ramsey has featured Hogan. Thus Hogan wasn’t easily expendable like that lower level pregnant woman was.
Dave Ramsey also owns the whole business so no checks and balances like you might have larger corporations or churches to some degree. Thus Dave Ramsey can basically run his company however he wants to and decide who he hires and fires. Even with full ownership,
a lot of people seem to be starting to question Dave’s claims to being a Christian and Dave’s claim to believe in Christian values with as arrogant as he seems. Also, should churches be using his materials with this being the apparent case.
Dave seems either high on the narcissism scale or is perhaps a full narcissist.
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I am sure because Dave Ramsey teaches tithing as being “biblical” is why a lot of pastors and church leadership promote his course at their churches. It is a good way to impose on members to tithe and thus increase income to their local church
To paraphrase what Max said, even if they don’t like Ramsey’s personality Ramsey is able to reinforce tithing. Money talk$ as they say.
Here is another person’s account of Dave Ramsey
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If a churchman doesn’t “give as his heart tells him, neither grudgingly nor under compulsion” (2 Cor 9:7), it doesn’t matter what Ramsey tells him to do.
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Oh yeah, I’m from that generation … I’ve seen all the gimmicks and laughed on the way home at many of the stage gyrations I observed. When the three-piece suits and greasy preacher hair were replaced by tight jeans, spiky hairdos, and hoochie-coochie praise and worship teams, I joined the Done ranks … done with the organized church, but not done with Jesus.
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Totally Autocratic Corporate Culture, just like Trump, Inc.
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Don Jones,
“I know individuals who have used his money management principles to get out of debt which is very helpful.”
+++++++++++++
is it not basic common sense?
apparently, he can spin it as “gospel money management” thereby entitling him to charge large sums of money. of course, because that is what the christian consumer market will bear.
how much does he charge for dispensing basic common sense?
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The same guys Jesus spoke of with contempt:
“Which devour widows’ houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.”
— Luke 20:47 —
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It is and can be learned many places at no cost … but Ramsey wouldn’t make gospelly money off of it either.
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Indeed.
No cost spirituality for financially thin with limited time:
– prayer
– 1 book – the Bible
– seeking guidance from & listening to, the Holy Spirit
– sharing/discussion with fellow believers
– nature as creation revelation, outside is safe during Covid
– TWW online for sensible informative posts & global discourse, safe & civil
– gratitude
– sharing resources with others (without the church/tithe/overhead middleman)
– sensible choices like setting boundaries, walk away in Jesus’ name
– quiet times
– inspirational music in the public domain
– inspirational art in the public domain
– inspiration films in the public domain
– sports & activities that uplift
– other simple pleasures like simple healthy meals (made at home)
– the public library & google searches for inspirational history & lit
– sharing time & encouragement with others, as guided by the HS
What else?
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Yes, but common sense is not so common these days. We see the lack of it at the root of many church problems (and elsewhere).
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That depends on if you need basic 101 money common sense or enough financial smarts to become a millionaire … the New Year’s special for “The Millionaire Starter Pack” will cost you $199.99
https://www.daveramsey.com/store/bundles?snid=store_nav.bundles
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More info
https://www.daveramsey.com/store/financial-peace-university
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Here is another account of Ramsey:
http://amyfritzwrites.com/2020/04/15/leaving-ramsey-solutions/
I imagine with Ramsey is it like a lot of leaders their success goes to their head.
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Those words could have come out of the mouth of any bully out there.
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“Faking is a social activity in which people act together to draw a veil over unwanted realities and encourage each other in the exercise of their illusory powers.” – Roger Scruton
Lauren’s Promise: “I will listen and believe you if someone is threatening you.”
Lauren McCluskey was threatened while the U of Utah, Salt Lake City Campus Police & Local Police did nothing; she ended up dead. A sociopath terrorized Lauren on campus her senior year. See Dateline.
Listen, believe, respond appropriately, protect (victims not predators): what needs to happen but rarely happens in church.
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Clark Howard lives in Atlanta and had a very popular radio show for a number of years. He’s also been very involved in community outreach. I’ve listened to him on many, many occasions (I live in the Atlanta area). I once heard him called “the nicest guy in Atlanta”.
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My guess is many times these sociopaths aren’t stupid and sadly choose their victims well. Though I don’t know details about Lauren McCluskey my guess is that she didn’t have strong family ties to where she could go home and flee this sociopath even if it meant not graduating or transferring. It could also be that this victim had a trait that was afraid to speak up.
At least “successful” (hate to use that word) sociopaths know how to pick their victims and prey on those that are more susceptible due to whatever circumstances be it the victim’s personality or situation.
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Lauren did have a supportive family and had contacted both Campus and Salt lake City police many times; the problem is they did not step up to follow through on her concerns as they should have. He had violated his parole (and lied to Lauren about his age and sex offender status), so if he had been put back in jail for parole violation her life might have been saved.
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readingalong
Thanks for your quick response. Good she had a strong family. In hindsight and I know it shouldn’t have been what Lauren should have had to do but maybe withdrawing and moving home or somewhere might have been best especially if this was going on.
A shame that the police apparently ignored these pleas to investigate especially if it would have resulted in this person being arrested.
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readingalong,
$13.5 million settlement from University of Utah to Lauren’s parents, along with multiple changes for how they handle student crime and violence complaints.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/10/26/timeline-extortion/
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With regard to Dave Ramsey with both his apparent narcissism and his being the sole ownership of his company short of a miracle I think they only thing that will get his attention is something like a lot of employees leave or a large drop off in money coming in say from less churches participating in his program etc.
One thing I have heard is that with Dave Ramsey opening a new headquarters building, Ramsey is under some financial pressure to keep money coming in. Thus this pressure could explain some of his reactions like not allowing employees to work remotely as well as not enforcing his supposed work codes on a prominent employee that could bring in revenue for his company.
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Unfortunately being sued and losing this money might be the only some groups like will learn. Hopefully lawyers didn’t get too large of a percentage of this settlement.
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I’m so sick of the church. I think I’m totally done. I looked around at other churches, but I have to admit I know more extremely dysfunctional Christians than mildly to able functional ones. Even some of the more “progressive” churches in town are horrible to visitors and act more like a country club than a church.
I’ve personally known some of the worst people in the evangelical complex. I’ve seen RZ in person. He full out lied to my face about his qualifications. That’s nothing compared to the abuse he did to others like Lori Anne.
Even if there are still good people in churches, why are they letting these people lead them? And they do. They buy it hook, line, and sinker. But even if they disagree, they won’t stand up and say anything. They’ll threaten to keep their “sinning” neighbor out of their church with every breath and action, but they won’t say a word against their abusive and greedy pastor or leader.
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ishy,
RZ lied to my face as well… Also, I was part of a Veritas Forum, and the poor behavior of one of the “money bags” underwriting the specific Veritas Forum at my institutions led me to pull back from endorsing not just it, but other “para-church groups”. ( there were a couple of other “situations” that contributed to my pull back as well)..
However, I take a more “big picture view” and realize that this is EXACTLY what the NT warns us about… wolves in sheep’s clothing.. they are EVERYWHERE…
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They are. But what’s the point in going to church, then? I certainly don’t buy TGC’s argument that you have to be in submission to a church, or anything on earth for that matter.
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Now this is something I would love to hear about since we have participated in some Veritas Forum’s talks.
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ishy,
I would not darken the doorstep of a TGC church.. The idea that they would not give communion to a “shut in” since they can “attended” dear leaders service sealed the deal for me with respect to them…
but, The last couple of churches I have attended did not have authoritarian leaders, not leadership.. to be honest, I do expect to much out of my “leaders”… and I, while still a “work in progress” am a much less of a co-dependent person, so church to me is about attempting to worship with others…
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At the doorstep, as the love bombing immediately springs into action, it’s helpful to check on (requires research as we’ve found they are not so up-front and transparent) a church’s affiliations. Sometimes (red flag coming up) it’s a well-hidden secret.
Since following TWW, we’ve been looking at the various orgs & overheads & overseers of our local churches. Surprise, surprise. But then not really surprised as one observes their practices, beyond the façade.
Most of the affiliations or orgs are featured with posts, aka, evidence, at TWW.
Practice most often aligns with affiliation as they follow the Company Brand but Jesus not-so-much. It’s costly to follow Jesus, as He warned. No snake oil allowed.
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Yeah, TGC affiliation can show up in the strangest of places. Like the AoG church here is TGC-affiliated, along with the PCA church. And about 20 SBC churches, of course. I just found out about a new one that literally planted itself next door to one of the long-time TGC churches. They don’t really care what theology a church is as long as they can get a hold of the finances.
But it’s not just them. The moderate and progressive churches here are rude and cold. They show up to “worship”, but were all on their phones the whole time and didn’t say anything to even each other afterward.
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“In other words, it appears that Greear will not be held accountable by this group for his hiring decision. In my opinion, Greear knew exactly who he hired in June 2020.”
==================
It appears to me to be another case similar to what went down at Cedarville University. Thomas White hires his good buddy Anthony Moore knowing full well of Moore’s voyeuristic videos recorded on his phone of his good buddy (and youth pastor at the Fort Worth campus of the Village Church). Moore was fired from the Village Church and White then hired him at Cedarville. When all this came to light White threw Moore under the bus, firing him. Cedarville hired a law firm to investigate and, wonder of wonders, White kept his job. Only 2 members of the Board of Trustees had the courage to resign from the Board – Danny Aiken and Mark Vroegop.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cedarville-university-board-keeps-president-after-inquiry/ar-BB161gMl
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That sounds more like Social Media Addiction/Smartphone Addiction than anything else.
As for “didn’t say anything to each other afterwards”, it wasn’t online so they didn’t really exist.
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Loyal Lapdogs with Bilirubin-Brown Noses.
The flip side of Dear Leader Syndrome – the Yes-Men Courtiers.
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Not even wolves.
Feral junkyard dogs with sarcoptic mange.
Wolves have more Class than that.
P.S. “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing” is Aesop, not Bible. Different set of wisdom literature.
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Same dynamic as Georgians (the Georgia in Central Asia) still glorifying Stalin:
“He’s a murderous SOB, but He’s OUR Murderous SOB!”
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Not many church folks realize that New Calvinism has made inroads within the Assembly of God. A mega-church in my area, a jewel of the denomination, has drifted that way. Reformed theology is distinctly different from the historical belief and practice of pentecostals, who hold mission and evangelism to ALL people at the core of their being.
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They don’t realize which direction they are progressing to.
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Steve240,
“a large drop off in money coming in say from less churches participating in his program”
+++++++++++
i’ve been sort of amazed at how free churches are with other peoples’ money.
paying disproportionately large sums of money for ready-made programs and products (‘discipleship’-in-a-box’), and i would wager not a lot of due diligence on the quality or worthiness.
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The modern-day equivalent to the Boomers who sit there the whole time thinking about where they are going to go for lunch following the last Amen. Neither group remember anything about the sermon (which probably wasn’t memorable anyway).
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“a petition at Change. org: Release Lori Anne Thompson from her NDA Regarding Ravi Zacharias I signed it and so have 1300 others.”
++++++++++
as of this moment it’s up to 1795.
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Regarding others in church:
Talk, introduce, but not too chummy immediately. No assumptions.
The next person on the pew may/may not be a predator in what they perceive as their hunting ground.
Approach & fellowship with care.
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Well stated.
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Not exactly. In the biggest church, I saw maybe 10 people under the age of 60. And many of the were on their phones during the whole service.
Obsessive phone use is no longer reserved for the younger generations…
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
Nope, got you on this one HUG:
Matthew 7:15
King James Version
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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Obsessed or possessed?
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Another post about Dave Ramsey. This on his double standard on “gossip.”
https://melissajhogan.com/dave-ramsey-gossip-slander-privacy/
Not surprising with Ramsey it is a do as I say vs. do.
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This is just an observation. But when one’s entire sense of “community” is tied up with one group (in this case, a church), it’s really hard to leave that behind, even when it becomes obviously unhealthy.
That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that in the long run it is better for everyone involved to get out and stay out of authoritarian churches.
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In that sense, I think it’s unfortunately the church mimicking “the world.” I’ve seen the same thing in secular environments with directors wasting tuition money on unnecessary curriculum, employees spending large with travel expenses on the employer’s dime, public employees in various capacities acting entitled to things paid for by the taxpayer…
My mom always told me growing up that when we borrow something from someone else, we have to take extra good care of it because it doesn’t belong to us. Should be a common courtesy, but unfortunately seems not so much.
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After a long hiatus, I’ve decided I’m going back to Lutheranism (ELCA, the liberal wing).
No drama, no strongman dictator in the pulpit; just liturgy, communion, and great people to have coffee and donuts with after service.
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Also described as “a Weak man acting out what a Weak man thinks a Strong man is like.”
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Ramsey employees need to realize from the get-go that they are not joining a Christian ministry. This a business, much like any corporation across America, where double standards at the top vs. in the ranks are modus operandi.
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Indeed they do. They have an actual society, much like human society. Native Americans knew this long before present-day wildlife biologists proved it so with hard data.
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Yes, this hss been a shock to me, as the AoG was always “whosoever will.” I suspect the drift to neo-Calvinism is not doctrine related but authority related. The pastors taking up neo-Calvinism are probably attracted tonthe authoritarianism inherent in hard-line Calvinism.
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Yes, and I think “the beauty of complementarity” is also a factor – to put them pentecostal women in their place, you know. And Driscoll has been making the rounds within AoG life with his real marriage and macho-man-Christian message.
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It’s not just the neo-cals, you’ll find the same devotion to authoritarianism in say, the Calvary Chapel regime.
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ishy,
I don’t know if this is a note of hope or not. My church building has been closed since March, with outdoor services added in recent months and everything else online. I am still able to volunteer a bit, and communicate with a couple of dear folks. But we are in a diaspora.
What will the community will be like when we are able to gather safely again? My hope is that people will appreciate it, even though we are bound to be skittish and awkward at first.
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Dear Leader Syndrome.
And when you’re catechized with a God who is just like that, raw POWER and POWER alone…
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“I GET TO HOLD THE WHIP!!!!!”
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Negotiating a cash settlement, signing an NDA as part of the deal (common in settlement of civil disputes), and then wanting to void the NDA while retaining the cash settlement strikes me as dirty pool.
In many abuse cases, a negotiated settlement is the only justice a victim may see. The hard reality is many of these cases are simply not prosecutable. If NDAs start to lose their force and effect… future victims may find the settlement they might once have had recourse to to be off the table.
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brian,
Horrible.
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Church folks are some of the meanest people on the planet! I have sat through more contentious business meetings than I can count where “God’s people” fussed about everything, ranging from color of the carpet to color of the preacher. There is/was a lot wrong with the American church long before the New Calvinists moved in to wreak havoc, take over, and split congregations.
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That.
(And that includes when the definition of the word “cheap” is intended when the word “meanest” is applied to all those who “profess” to have “christian” values…..)
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researcher,
Note that I didn’t say “Christians” were some of the meanest people on the planet … I said “church folks” were. Not everyone that goes to church is the Church. This is what Jesus had to say about that:
“I can see it now — at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to Me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our super-spiritual projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use Me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’” (Matthew 7 MSG)