One in a Blue Dune-Nasa/JPL
“Sometimes in life there’s no problem and sometimes in there is no solution. In this space – between these apparent poles – life flows.” ― Rasheed Ogunlaru
When people didn’t tell the truth or appeared not to be telling the truth at TWW
A few years back, there was a woman at TWW who claimed that there was a registered sex offender working in her church. She also claimed that she had been written about in a well known West coast news source regarding her advocacy. At first, I believed her and even gave her a job of praying for people at TWW. But, I decided not to post her story.
Sadly, I learned from folks who knew the situation that there was no registered sex offender at the church and the man and his family, that she accused of this heinous crime, were deeply hurt. I believed them because they offered proof. But there is more to this story that I cannot share because it would cause even more pain to the innocents victims (yes multiple) of this lie.
After doing more research, I was able to confirm that he was not a registered sex offender. Also, as I looked for proof of her well known advocacy, I found it did not exist in any media accounts, including the one in which she said she was discussed on the front page. I ended up blocking her from the website and endured threats about teams of lawyers going after me. I knew this would not happen, but it was a trying time because a few readers accused me of being mean to a victim. I couldn’t say why I knew she wasn’t a victim because it would hurt others.
I have felt guilty about this for a long time. I contributed to that pain by allowing things to go on longer than I should have, trying to support a woman who was deeply hurting others. I still feel pain over that situation. There are a number of readers here who will rememeber the drama and ugliness of what happened
But such an experience does not go to waste. I took away an important lesson. Some people, due to mental illness or a wish to become well known or in hopes of becoming famous, can be untruthful about their situation. I became much more cautious in accepting things as face value and really upped my game in going deeper.
In the 11 years (In March) of blogging, I’ve have not told the stories of about 10 people who claimed to have been abused. In each situation, I felt bad. A few people berated me for my decision. But, I confided in some advocates about each situation to be sure I was on the right path.
My history at TWW speaks to who I am
I’ve often said that this blog will be a history for my family of theological beliefs and questions as well as my concerns about the coverup of sex abuse and domestic violence in today’s Protestant churches. I also have dealt with spiritual abuse, stating my concerns of how churches misuse things like church contracts (aka covenants.)
The one word that defines me is *victim-centric.* Years ago, before starting this blog, Barbara Dorris at SNAP gave me a piece of advice. When things get confusing, always remember the victim. It will help clarify things. She was right.
This blog has never taken advertisements or kickbacks (for recommending books, etc.) I have no one telling me what to write. What you see is me. There is enormous freedom in all of this. I don’t worry about people’s perceptions or their judgement on my character. I do this for victims, not me. I have this compulsion to write about this that I believe comes from the Spirit (although some will claim I’m a Daughter of Stan (sic))
I have been blogging about abuse for far longer than many of the current crop of victims and advocates. I have been called despicable names (the Mark Driscoll guys were the worst along with Frank Turk), accused of engaging in libelous writing (Joe Carter) for standing up for the victims of the Sovereign Grace mess. I am still friends with one former SGM member who had two kids abused.
I understand repressed memories. I wrote about them a long time ago just like I wrote a post asking for Paige Patterson to resign 10 years ago, way ahead of the current *woke* leaders. I have consistently stood firm for victims in spite of the constant blowback. I’ve also dealt with legal threats behind the scenes which have thankfully amounted to zip. I’ve had letters sent sand calls made to my churches, telling them to discipline me.
I believe that anyone who follows this blog or takes the time to read it understands that I’ve been advocating constantly for victims even when it was quite difficult with few people around to support me. For a long time, there was no-one doing exactly what I was doing. I was willing to post story after story of abuse and call out the churches and leaders involved. When I started, I did not realize how bad it was out there and I grew in my understanding of the pervasiveness of evil when it comes to abuse.
Which brings me to Twitter
History
I am not going to name the person who this is about but neither will I block anyone from naming the person involved in the comments. I did this for a reason. You can read about my initial concerns from 9/20 here. I wrote this person a letter, asking her to stop with her accusations. Behind the scenes (I was given screenshotsI) I was bing accused of leading a a group of 3 advocates (Ashley Easter and Julie Anne Smith) to harass her online for a long time. This was absolute nonsense since I didn’t know (or wasn’t aware of he)r until Birmingham (SBC convention 2019) and didn’t really follow what she said.
At the same time, a few victims were upset that she appeared to say they should never leave the church after being abused because she didn’t. If you look at a couple of the negative reviews of her book on Amazon (for some reason Lifeway isn’t carrying her book), you might find it interesting.
I then wrote a note to one person on the Caring Well team since I didn’t know who to contact. Basically, I said this negative stuff about me, as well as others coordinating a lengthy attack on her was simply untrue. Yes, she was upset about my *designated survivor* post but I stood by the meaning that it conveyed.
I also wrote her and explained why I was upset. Yes, I wrote her! I told her about the texts but, under advisement, I did not share them with her because I was concerned that she might try to change them or claim that I made them up. It turns out that I was correct in being concerned. She wrote them and she knows what they said. After that I went merrily off to Greece, returned to a torn up house (planned) and two of my family members whose medical problems had become quite serious. I frankly didn’t reads her tweets, etc. more than a few times because she seemed silent about me which was all I wanted.
The here and now
Recently, I heard from some folks who shared with me comments she had made in regards to my note to her back in October. I cannot release their information due to their fear of retaliation. Just like the woman I spoke about earlier in the post, I need to protect these folks who I believe are victims who have been traumatized by some interactions.
What was said about me, as well as a person she works with, turned my stomach. I realized I was up against a real problem and that the full story has not been told. I knew that any attempts to contact her would result in further disturbing communication. I also know that any such texts would be denied as being real. I was right in my assessment. I decided against any direct communication with her. If she claims I have her *contact info* why don’t you ask her what she said about me trying to get her phone number. (I have absolutely no desire to speak with her on the phone.)
I was left with dilemma. How can I say something that might cause others research the situation. There was only one way to do it without hurting other victims. I had to use her own word that were either in print or on Twitter. I also knew that I would be accused of going after a *victim.* I’ve been down the road before.
So, I will eave this to to the reader to decide whether or not I have suddenly, after almost 11 years, gone over to the Dark Side. My writings are public.I don’t scrub my website to get rid of disturbing information. I believe that I have been consistent in my advocacy throughout the years. I am far from perfect but one things is certain. I have always stood for the victims even when it was unpopular and there was no #Metoo #churchtoo movement, even when I was alone. Even when I had Joe Carter of TGC attacking me.
I can also say that even now, I’m standing up for victims even thought it looks like I am not. To say more could cause pain.
Finally,, someone who I respect said I should never have posted those two tweets even if I am correct in my concerns. I get what he’s saying. I think Spock said it best “The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the one.” I know he thought I hurt some survivors. I probably did and I feel bad about that. But, there are others hurt in this story and I can’t talk about them. See he story I told in th beginning. There s more to this story but I can’t tell you. I cannot tell you who sent me the emails of Iain Campbell’s affairs either. I’m protecting folks, something I do a lot.
If my 11 years of writing is thrown out the window because of the claim I am *abusing others *by two tweets and that it is my responsibility to tell the entire story, so be it. However, if someone really believes that, I wish they would tell me why they think I would ditch 11 years of advocacy? I know there are repressed memories, I was discussing that when some commenters were not around or not yet *woke?*
I hope this helps. I may be able to release one text in the near future. Also, Jules Woodson has been terribly hurt by this. I am thankful for a pastor who listened to me and counseled me in this situation.
1 BAM
Is she the first person that had her complaint processed by the ERLC?
Prayers for you.
Ah, that’s what this was about?? I remember she sounded off to me but I just kind of tried to stay away from her. I didn’t know all the backstory stuff except that it ended badly.
Dee:
One of the inherent realities of trying to serve and help others is that we lose control of the narrative once another person is involved. While I know I said “ABCD” to someone, they have total control and the ability to say to anyone and everyone, “He said EFGH!.” I have no rebuttal or recourse because I cannot divulge what I said originally, nor can I respond to what the person “said I said” in order to maintain confidentiality.
There is great pain for you in this because you know in your heart of hearts what you said and the intent that you had in saying it. This is one of the burdens that one bears from being a helper and becoming involved with others. It is part of the narrative of being a “Wounded Healer” (borrowing Henri Nouwen’s term). Please know that your larger excellent reputation and care overshadows such a situation as this. You are known for your intentional concern and involvement which so much overshadows anything that “someone” may about you.
Give yourself grace . . .
Prayers for you and all involved. You been on my mind lately, now I know why. Anything I can do please let me know.
Dee, I’m not a Twitter-er or Facebook-er … I barely have enough techsense to participate in this blog. So, I haven’t been following this. Please know that I am praying for you.
@Dee,
From my perspective as a long-time research writer on spiritual abuse and follower of TWW almost since the beginning, I don’t know how you could have handled the complexities and competing necessities of this particular situation much better than you did.
I get the processes you’ve outlined for how you put things into print and the conflicts that occasionally arise from that.
I know firsthand the hours that fact-checking narratives and analysis articles take.
How someone’s story often adds more detail over time, and seeming conflicts in details get clarified.
How posting a survivor’s experience must wait until they are ready to share and we’ve done our due diligence to ensure its authenticity and accuracy.
How we aren’t always able to respond to or refute criticisms for a multitude of reasons.
How there can be a lot of pain involved in the work of empathy and from various kinds of conflicts that come from putting ourselves out in the public eye.
I remember the situation you mentioned with the supposed expert and how she damaged many of us readers through her control efforts. In fact, I dropped out of commenting on TWW for probably a year because I couldn’t stomach her uncivil verbal slap-backs at anyone old or new who dared disagree with her opinions.
This is a rough ministry to be involved in–but for some like you the writing is also a calling. This is no pastime activity. You’ve been a pioneer in “survivor blogging,” Dee. I’m glad more people have gotten active on social media, and I hope they realize the heritage they’ve inherited with relative pioneer survivor blogs like Wartburg Watch, WatchKeep, Stop Baptist Predators, Spiritual Sounding Board, Thou Art The Man, Warren Throckmorton, SGM Survivors, and others.
Indeed, the #MeToo movement infusing into churches and denominations in late 2017 has made a far more hospitable environment for abuse survivors and advocates to enter the fray of public discussion. I hope those who have more recently joined will realize how even more intense/hostile it was for people who were engaging years to decades earlier. And I hope they will have grace for you, Dee, while they seek to understand better this specific situation, and other complicated situations like this it. Those of us who’ve been around a while know this wasn’t the first time, and it won’t be the last …
Thanks for posting this article, Dee, and for your ongoing discernment and discretion in helping survivors get their experiences into print and resourcing our communities with important concepts and analysis.
You. Rock. !
Man it’s been a while but iirc It was a lot to watch the sugary sweet agreement/loving on people who agreed with or flattered her verses the vicious turnaround to people who didn’t.
Yup.
And the way I experienced it, I sensed the level of vitriol creeping up over time, and as it did, my gut feeling of repulsion grew greater — but my mind couldn’t yet process exactly what was going on.
I think in part because this was way too similar to one long-lasting situation of spiritual abuse I’d experienced that was a frog-in-the-kettle kind of a slowly intensifying thing.
So I pretty much dropped out from commenting, then didn’t even read here, until I found out she’d been blocked. Even then, it took months before I started commenting again, as I recall.
Dee,
Just remember this wise quote:
“Twitter is a cesspool. If you swim in a cesspool, you are likely to catch something unpleasant.”
Ken P.
That Ken P. is a smart guy. Keep up the good fight and my prayers are with you.
Ken P.,
🙂
Dee,
Yes, I remember V too and her story and then how she got so ugly and rabid. Quite a prolific poster she was. I’ve hung out here for over 6 years before finally commenting, this is my third time, but I remember wanting to reply to her many times when she attacked folks so viciously but knowing it would be too upsetting. Praying for you, Dee. We all believe in your goodness.
Being an abuse survivor does not give someone license to be abusive. While I get some are hyper-vigilant to the point of misunderstanding, defending and attacking others, it is not loving or helpful to continue to permit their toxic behavior.
There is a time to speak and a time to be silent. It is good and right you declared your position and outlined the reasons (without betraying confidences) for your boundaries.
Most of us call that integrity.
Thank you for being so faithful in your calling.
Now, may God grant you peace, may He heal your hurts, grant you rest and give you the ability to extend Hi grace to yourself that you extend to the rest of us.
A couple years ago I was in a Bible study with a woman who went from church to church claiming abuse that was only in her mentally ill mind. I had friends at a church 10 miles away who knew her, and then met others who did as well.She caused a lot of damage claiming no one cared about her, demanding money for her expenses, etc. No one could seem to redirect her. Social media gives these folks more places to vent and cause more problems. I appreciate the blog and it has made me much more aware of abuse and prevention in the church. You do an excellent job, Dee, and you bring much-needed hope to many.
I took some time off, too. There were actually a couple of controlling people hiding under sugary veneers here at the time and the passive aggressive comments were getting aggravating. These two were always having each other’s backs, if you tried to call one of them out. When I returned to Wartburg, I thankfully found neither still here, and things had gone back to the usual enjoyable exchange of ideas. I notice some of the other old timers have not come back, sadly.
I have noticed in my life that often the people who come on strong, all syrupy and gushy, will turn on a dime, and so I tend to be a little apprehensive about them.
People are complicated and messy sometimes. A lot of blogs and forums go down because people with their own issues and egos and agendas show up and derail things, and a lot of moderators don’t know how to deal with them. A lot of sites have stopped allowing comments altogether to avoid the headaches. Not to mention paid trolls and bots.
Thanks, Dee, for all the work you put into making this page an excellent place. Don’t underestimate the good that you are doing.
This history of this is important. The discussion about the SBC using “designated survivors” started during the rally by nobody who was at the rally. I believe Ashley Easter did pop in and comment, but the discussion started because of someone who went to the convention that complained that people like Russell Moore were dominating the panels and not letting the survivors talk. There was clearly a narrative the SBC wanted to promote that was more about something other than abuse. I watched the rally, and while there were some amazing speeches, the fact that everything was on a sidewalk was a huge red flag at how concerned the SBC really was about abuse. I know I wasn’t the only one who thought that; most of the people who went to the rally commented as such.
Once the rally was over, people at the rally joined the discussion. The discussion was primarily aimed at the SBC and those who are planning Caring Well. But there is one survivor, not the one this post is about, who people were trying to engage about this problem of the SBC just using victims to make money. That survivor only engaged a little about it, but in a reasonable sort of way. It was in the middle of that discussion where the person this post is about was tagged and she just kinda lost it without even trying to understand what the discussion was about.
There are some real important issues in this discussion. The first is that there was someone in the discussion who was arguing that by not going to church, then you shouldn’t have a voice in the discussion. What that person meant was not going to a SBC church. I’m pretty sure this is the view of the New Calvinist leaders. New Calvinist theology isn’t nice to outsiders. It also is wholly dismissive of any victim who has been hurt by the SBC and left because they were violated, harassed, sexually abused, and where leaders tried to silence them about it. Some of those leaders are the ones still involved in this Caring Well project, which is REALLY problematic.
Another issue, and a big one, is that it appears to many people that the SBC is using the Caring Well initiative simply to make money and not to actually correct the problems regarding abuse in the SBC. And they are using these survivors at their expensive conferences to sell tickets and project packs. Yikes.
There’s lots more issues, like the double speak by some of the leaders where they speak for Caring Well in one space and then put down women who come forward in others. I notice they are silent on men in things like tweets but I doubt they are helping male victims, either.
The person this post about refuses to even listen to other survivors and how the Caring Well initiative might hurt future victims despite claiming to be a victim advocate. This isn’t being a victim advocate, in the end. I no longer regard this person as a victim advocate because of the way they have responded to other victims on Twitter. Particularly, I saw her get rather nasty in a discussion involving Jules Woodson, who really should be part of the process of developing initiatives, but we know the SBC doesn’t really care about fixing the problems, so that’s not going to happen. I think this person has misdirected her anger on dee, Ashley, and Julie Ann, and is attacking them because she doesn’t want to admit to herself that some of these issues might be true and the Caring Well initiative that she has endorsed is mostly a farce.
Hey Dee, you’re doing great, this is a complex & difficult field & you need all our prayers as you navigate it.
I actually thought about Velour for the first time in years the other day, probably the only person other than Jimmy I finally lost my patience with on TWW, she just went waaayyy too far. That was a difficult period for lots of us. I hope she has the treatment & help she needs.
I’ve only just really gotten into Twitter & don’t understand it all that well yet, but will try to keep up.
Have you given an update on your kids that I’ve missed? I hope & pray that their issues have turned out to be less serious or more treatable than it sounded.
Keep fighting the good fight. Sending love.
dee,
Especially when “religion” or “politics” is involved! 🙂
BTW, there’s some significant problems with the Caring Well curriculum that are important to this discussion. The first being that predators should be protected and kept secret, privately church disciplined. Exactly the same thing they’ve always done that’s caused abuse to flourish in the church.
Victims shouldn’t support Caring Well. It’s not about them and never was.
I urge everyone to read Jimmy Hinton’s evaluation of the curriculum:
https://jimmyhinton.org/sbcs-caring-well-stance-on-abusers-coddles-them-while-keeping-them-hidden-within-the-church/
That’s the stuff that drives me crazy. And then people who are a little more…moderate in their sentiments get looked down on/put down. Not good.
I just think of a friend in high school who gave the sugaryest hug/i love you combo to someone and the minute they were out site were like ‘i hate that b’. Yikes.
If i tell you i love you i mean it.
I could see this comment if it were someone who had no current or *previous* background in/affiliation with/knowledge of the church or the issues involved (excepting experts and such who should be welcome to comment from their area of expertise).
But people who have an experience with the church that is negative, that is damaging, and that drove them from church should absolutely be part of the conversation! If you have a terrible cult and you only allow people to comment who are still in it and all in for the leader instead of listening to the ones who left or got chased out for valid reasons you’re not going to get a good understanding of what is actually wrong.
Having unwittingly waded into that specific cesspool on Twitter (I spoke once, let not the reader become angry), I have a new appreciation for you Dee. Thank you.
Yeah. I think the deeper implication he was hinting at but not actually saying was, “If you aren’t in the right church, you aren’t a Christian and are evil and can’t have anything good to say.” That’s a central belief in New Calvinism. And they believe that if you leave a New Calvinist church, you must not be one of the elect.
These beliefs are straight out of cult strategy 101. Isolating members keeps them from thinking about things the cult doesn’t want them to think about and membership = only pathway to salvation. Those inside the cult think something is being done because they are told it is. I think the leaders also believe the media will just leave them alone, because they can keep future abuse quiet. I don’t think that’s going to happen anymore.
A-A-A-MEN!
ishy,
I had, well not high hopes but at least moderate hopes, that Caring Well would be at least the tip of the spear towards change.
Instead it is the brass boss of the shield protecting the same churches, good old boy networks, and images that the SBC has always protected.
“Sometimes there are no good choices … but you still have to choose”
— the 12th Doctor
It sounds like, faced with the constraints, you are pursuing the ‘least bad’ alternative. I hope that you do not grow discouraged; the churches need the work that you are doing.
You are in my prayers.
Thanks, Ishy. I don’t follow Twitter, so this is really helpful.
Re:
A wise saying comes to mind: “when people who you who they are, believe them”
Or, as Jesus put it, “the words that come out of the mouth originate in the heart.”
So, I may be wrong about the person this post is about. There was a very recent discussion (yesterday) with a big name where she posted some words that basically said that the problem with social media is that anybody can have a mic and they shouldn’t.
This person clarified and said she was talking about trolls. I get it, trolls stink. But in doing so, she generalized and made it sound like nobody should have a voice. She has a powerful voice and doesn’t realize how much harder it is for people that don’t. So she understandably made a lot of people angry.
This is the beauty and agony of social media–everyone can have a voice. And anonymity makes people feel like they can say terrible things. But at the same time, voices who have long been silenced can have a voice, and as we’ve seen, can cause action on crimes that have long been ignored. I think you gotta take both to have both. People also can respond to trolls and help others make more informed decisions.
I’m a little more confused about the comparison to that former commentor here, because they seem very different in nature. But the difference between a blog and Twitter is that the owner of a blog can keep a troll or someone causing problems from posting. There’s nothing stopping them from starting their own blog–they just have to find people who will listen to them.
Neither am I Max, I could never justify the energy expenditure.
I have a hunch that you’d do well in the UNIX world.
Hello fellow Whovian! That’s a great quote I teach my kids. That and Captain Picard talking about how there is uncertainty – you can make no mistakes, and still lose. It’s not weakness, it’s life.
Dee, I didn’t say it before, but you’ve got my support.
I feel like I’ve always lived in another world, Muff.
I don’t believe the mic post is the thread that Dee is talking about in this post. The thread I believe she is referring to dates back several days (Thursday or Friday?). As the tweeter is both a survivor and an advocate I hesitate to identify her, but I recall there being something “off” about what she was saying and was glad to see Dee pushing back. By “off”, I mean it seemed agenda driven more than survivor sensitive. The author seemed to think that since something went well for her, it should be expected of all Christian survivors. I can’t find the original tweet (possibly deleted?) so sorry I can’t be more specific as to the content.
Makes you wonder how many SBC leaders are abusers themselves, and don’t want anyone to rock the boat.
“I GOT MINE,
I GOT MINE,
I DON’T WANT A THING TO CHANGE
NOW THAT I GOT MINE…”
— Glenn Frey (in a song about those on top’s indifference to the plight of those on the bottom)
I went back and looked and it was neither. But I had seen that person also post some pretty vile stuff at people, so much of it applies. Every post is a different story. That may be common for some victims, but the story changes so much that person is not trustworthy.
There’s an added issue of that person profiting off her involvement with Caring Well, just as some of the leaders are doing. The person I originally wrote about has qualifications to do so, but people like Russell Moore seemed to see dollar signs and wrote a book like he was an expert even though he’s not. I do think victims should write books, but you shouldn’t write a book until you are ready and are consistent. The person dee’s post about is very inconsistent in her story and seems to be using the platform to advertise more than anything.
I must admit there are times I have thought that WW has gone a bit too far or thought or headed in a different direction than I would but by far you guys have so much for so many people hurt by abuse and making people aware of the collusion and the corruption. What is clearly missing in most churches is a clear outlined protocol of due process to handle these matters. Too many seem to rely on a saucerdontal approach. Daniel Juster’s book on Due Process is a good read. I am finding that Messianic literature is much more reliable in addressing such matters.
The OP said we won’t be reprimanded for naming names, so I will name some names.
I think you’re referring to Beth Moore, who recently did a three tweet commentary about how people shouldn’t be using social media to stand up to others (though she herself has used social media to do this very thing, so go figure).
I take it the first woman mentioned in the OP went under the name Velour, and I believe one or two other screen names.
I did an entire blog post or two about that Velour melt down over at my Daisy blog.
(There was also her sidekick, Christiane, who egged her on in her behavior.)
The third is probably Jennifer Michelle Greenberg (on twitter, that would be @JennMGreenberg),
whom I know little about, and I don’t remember ever tweeting at her, so she’s not blocked me.
I’m not totally clear on what all the drama is about.
My take away is that supposedly, Ms. Greenberg has been insulting or challenging Jules W. over on Twitter,
or making supposedly false claims about other abuse survivors or their advocates, and then blocking anyone on Twitter who confronts her about all this.
Also, Ms. Greenberg claims at some times to be an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse,
but some have found conflicting statements she’s made on Twitter and/or other people’s blogs in years past that seem to show she was Not abused as a child
– but she gets angry if anyone brings up these apparent discrepancies of her story.
I don’t know Ms. Greenberg from a hole in the ground, and the Twitter conversations I’ve seen about this leave the impression a lot of info has been publicly left out.
I am guessing everyone involved is arguing in private via D.M.s or e-mails, which is why there seem to be gaps in the public discussions.
The whole saga is confusing for those of us not “in the know” with any back channel communications.
ishy,
Thought: If she wasn’t ready to talk about her abuse, who encouraged her to write a book about it? I remembered something about LifeWay was going to publish her book then changed their mind, another publisher picked it up.
She may have decided that herself. If Lifeway refused to publish it, then they considered it or her problematic. I haven’t read her book, so I can’t comment on that, but I’ve read enough of her tweets to feel like she’s not very stable of a person.
Just because someone wants to do something doesn’t mean they should or are ready to. She doesn’t seem like she can handle any sort of controversy, but being in the public spotlight is part of the package. She doesn’t have to use Twitter, I don’t think, but since she blocks everyone who says anything she doesn’t want to hear, they’re not going to have a good opinion of her.
ishy,
In other words, it’s like the TGC guys who block everyone who disagrees with them because they think the people that follow them don’t know what people are saying. That might work on their blog, but Twitter doesn’t exactly work that way.
Has to be “Velour”.
I remember her offering legal referrals as she claimed to work in the field. (Not as a lawyer, but as some sort of legal secretary or aide.)
If I remember right, Velour bailed out on this blog during or after some sort of knock-down-drag-out regarding Alcoholics Anonymous. She was very pro-AA and got into a big fight with other commenters that posted about its downside and how they had been harmed instead of helped.
Magistos,
Well met!
The thought occurs that “no good options to choose among” is a reasonably accurate thumbnail sketch of the dilemma that many parts of the Church reckon God to have faced, that led to the Cross — it being the least bad of the alternatives.
Perhaps our experience of similar conundrums should not be surprising — and we should be to some degree patient with those whose choices in such situations do not conform to our preferences.
The world (both ixtian and secular) is full of those kinds of people.
The O’Jays sang about it in 1972 (Backstabbers)
I dropped out for a bit myself. That was a strange period for TWW.
Dee,
You are awesome!
Dee,
I agree with Brad: you’re a pioneer, and YOU ROCK. I have faith in you. I have no doubt that you do your absolute best with every post.
I’ve been mia for a while on TWW, too. I didn’t intentionally drop out – just had personal/family things to deal with for the past 12-15 months.
Our horse was old and became foundered – wasn’t drinking or eating enough. So, hubby and I fenced in a dry lot beside the house and built her a shed so that I could see to her (at least twice a day) and make her last year or so as comfortable as possible. Belle Starr of Avalon was 25 when we had to put her down. She was born in my dad’s barn. She was family, and , boy, was she a character!
My mom fell and broke her ankle.
My daughter found out she was pregnant — difficult pregnancy after two miscarriages. She developed sepsis at delivery. Then we found out my new grandson was allergic to milk. He is over that now, but his first 4 months were difficult. His first birthday will be in three weeks!
We had all of this and a few other things going on simultaneously. My Chronic Fatigue Syndrome didn’t take it well. To cap thing off, I’m still recoving from injuring some tendons in my upper arm/shoulder on Dec. 5!
But, I am still Kevlar!
I’ve only been following TWW for about a year so, fortunately, I missed the venom of the commenter…and I don’t keep up with Twitter. I appreciate all that you do, Dee. I’ve not been a victim of sexual abuse in the church but I have been on the receiving end of spiritual abuse. I find comfort reading your blog and knowing that you’re defending and giving a voice to victims.
Some of the nastiest, most insidious people I’ve ever met were within the walls of a church. “You will know them by their fruit.” I don’t know the circumstances of any of this but if the fruit (of the spirit) is bitter and destructive, my guess is the tree is rotten.
Keep up the good work. Praying for continued discernment and peace for you and yours.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
She originally posted as Michaela. Then she changed her handle to Velour. It all fell apart during the R.C. Sproul DUI incident. I live in the area and knew some people who attended the church she was trashing. I knew her story wasn’t right. Also, I never knew of any newspaper story and I religiously read all the newspapers from around the Bay Area. I felt sorry for Dee who had to deal with the situation.
Dee, it’s a testament to your good writing or perhaps to technology that I feel connected to and a friendship with someone I’ve never met and in fact, do not even know by her proper name. I DO however, know something about the evidence that exists for your character. I tell my children that the most difficult thing is to be misunderstood and unable to defend yourself. There are few times in life when you’re prevented from “setting the record straight” or even raising a finger to defend yourself. In those moments, perhaps our real trust in God and His goodness is forged? Although I know absolutely ZERO about the situation you’re describing (perhaps ignorance truly IS bliss?) I can tell how you’re torn and hurt by it. Without being preachy, let me remind you of the story of the good shepherd who left the 99 to pursue the one. To pursue the one’s safety and security and well being. I’m glad to be acquainted with you and to watch and pray while you put yourself at some discomfort and pain to pursue the one. God bless you!
Believer,
BTW Dee, I didn’t miss the “Daughter of Stan” reference. Loved it. I’m a grandson of Stan but it’s just not as catchy….
I’ll admit that recently, I thought you did cross a line and did a thing that they say watchbloggers are bad for doing: asking if anyone knew about James MacDonald buying Ed Stetzer a car. And sure enough…
You’ve earned my trust since I found Wartburg in 2014. Partially because you were talking about abuse victims in the church while JD Greear was still carrying his Mark Driscoll and CJ Mahaney Fan Club cards. You have an important thing to say about Caring Well that I think is right. The tone police can check your archives for themselves.
The accusation of you leading Ashley and me to be against Ms. Greenberg is ridiculous, Dee. I do not think I have ever engaged with her. I did notice one time she had blocked me, but she must have unblocked me again.
I don’t have time to waste like that – especially now that I am working full-time.
And the Velour situation: Dee was having some medical issues at the time and on meds that were pretty strong. It really upset me how she was taking over things in a way that Dee never would have. Her behavior got her banned from my site.
These are two cases of about a dozen that I know of – over 8 years of blogging – where wounded healers end up harming others. It’s very sad. Many survivors get into advocacy work to help others. But if they haven’t completed their own recovery work, they may do more harm than good, sadly.
Samuel Conner,
Magistos,
Complete tangent from what is an important post for Wartburg, but I, too, am a big fan of Doctor Who! Have been since I was small enough to be scared of a man in a monster suit lumbering around a plywood film set.
Once it became a fully open secret that the new Doctor would be female, there were brief rumours here in Blighty that she’d be played by Gillian Anderson. Although Jodie Whittaker is good, I think Gillian Anderson would’ve been better; she’s done a lot of really good roles since Agent Scully, some of which were in BBC-commissioned dramas that may not be well-known overseas.
But back on topic…
Dee – I have no twitter account, but I’m wondering whether I should start one if only to support you, and others like you, who serve individuals, often in secret, often thanklessly, and always unpaid.
There are those who consider “washing the feet of the saints” to be lesser work, fit only for those who aren’t important or rich enough to do real ministry. If I understand the gospel testimonies aright, Jesus isn’t one of them and never will be.
Nancy,
Hi Nancy! Sorry things have been rough but good to ‘see’ you anyways.
She was great in what I saw of the fall.
I watched new who for a few years and it was pretty great, but I guess I lost interest. 9 was my favorite, although tennant is fab in general.
Hi Nancy. Great to “see” you again! Sounds like you had a 2019 to remember/forget … as they say in my neck of the woods “When it rains, it pours.” Welcome back to fighting devils in cyberspace with the Wartburg Warriors.
Yes you are!!!
And it’s great seeing you here again!
Mrs. Muff and me had to have two beloved dogs put down in 2019.
The elder of the two (Skip was his name) lived for 20 years.
Julie Anne,
JA-I sadly think that you were blocked merely for being one of the*Daughters of Stan.*
Muff Potter,
What were the breed of the dogs?
Julie Anne,
Velour still has a blog up, although it hasn’t been updated in a couple of years. It’s mostly rants about how wronged she was. I live in the area where her former church is located, and all I have heard is that it is conservative-nothing else negative. I’ve always wondered about shat she accused them of because I move in circles with people from very liberal to very conservative denominations, and word usually gets out when things are weird. I have received the local paper for 20 years and I’ve never seen any advocacy work that Velour ever did.
Nick Bulbeck,
I liked the curly hairs guy that wore the wide brimmed fedora. Gillian Anderson would make a good Doctor Who.
Nick Bulbeck,
A few years ago I realized that what drew me to the reboot of DW (I was not as much a fan of the original version, which I was perhaps a bit young to appreciate; or perhaps I’m just a late bloomer) was that it features a man (and now, a woman) who
— reflexively is predisposed to show mercy to sufferers
— always offers enemies the opportunity to repent before “stopping” them
— is willing to lay down his/her life to save others
— having laid down his/her life to save others, gets it back again.
This is a very appealing portrait. Something itches in the back of my head, telling me that this reminds me of someone very important. I’m sure I’ll figure it out some day.
I’ll proudly wear that shirt 🙂
Both were Chihuahua mixes.
Fancy was mixed with Italian Greyhound and she was an utter beauty with her brindled coat.
Skip’s (his vet said he was the longest lived he’d seen in 40 years of practice) other half was Schipperke, a Belgian breed.
Tom Baker. He was the longest-serving (and 4th) doctor.
Muff Potter,
Oh Muff I’m so sorry to hear this, but delighted you had one of your beasties so long. They give love & delight way beyond their stature.
I still have one dog, after losing 2 in 4 years, but sadly will be parted from her for a while (& maybe forever) as I’ve had to move after 15 & a half years renting the same place, & my next port of call doesn’t take dogs. Pray it is a short stay & something comes up as Miss Bella Bean is over 13 & a cranky old lady – but my cranky old lady. Thankfully she can stay for now with a friend she loves. She’s a tiddler too, a Jack Russel cross.
Amen.
Beakerj,
Thanks Beaks, I think I can honestly speak for all of us who love dogs.
We love them as if they were real human family members.
Muff Potter,
And miss them when they are gone.
Daisy,
I don’t have Twitter. What did she say that disqualifies her as a victim of childhood sexual abuse?
Daisy,
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Hello Daisy & Nancy2, it’s good to “see” you both here again.
Moderation in all things is a good path to take.
I guess it’s just that people who don’t moderate their emotions in one direction, tend not to moderate them in the other, either. One extreme to the other.
First, Dee, thanks for what you have been doing to help the souls who have suffered injury and insult in the environment of “church”. It’s a very tough area to deal with.
Second, I hope it’s ok to borrow the space here to ask PRYER for a very urgent, developing situation in the world, especially in Mainland China. As the coronavirus hit like a tsunami, cities, provinces are being quarantined, even the country experiences physical isolation, lives are being impacted on huge scale. People stuck at home. Many businesses shut down. Transportation paused. They face possibility of getting bankrupt, shortage of medical care, job loss, and more harsh reality.
This is a critical time to pray for the turning of hearts toward Jesus. Turning of nations, peoples, and families, individuals, leaders…. to abandon their idol gods, and sins, so they will fear God and revere Him. Hopefully severe trials serve to cleanse all of human hearts, and enable us to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit, and depart from self-centeredness, blindness, vanity, rebellion, and all evil.
May the Lord revive His Church among us!
dee – you are loaded with credibility and integrity. compassion in action. you are a hero.
Fourth Doctor is the one that made it over here into local PBS stations.
With or without the Jelly Babies alongside the Sonic Screwdriver?
What would be the number of the MLP Earth Pony stallion commonly (and later officially) named “Dr Hooves”, featured in Episode 100 and many fanfics and online comics?
https://www.deviantart.com/gashiboka/art/Recall-the-Time-of-No-Return-page-link-library-541068613
https://www.deviantart.com/edowaado/art/Doctor-Whooves-This-Is-Where-It-Gets-Complicated-1-294768080
Things were also weird with Velour during the Tony Jones/Julie McMahon controversy. She was posting lots of legal advice for Julie, and insulting the actual attorneys who came on to explain why her take was wrong. She accused anyone with a different perspective about any single thing of being on Tony’s payroll.
I used to post a bit on that topic, because dealing with a narcissistic ex-spouse is an area where I have a good deal of unwelcome expertise. Dee and some others disagreed with my conclusions, always politely and thoughtfully, and they helped me examine my thinking. Velour just called me names. It got tiresome and I left TWW for a year or two.
Is this the same Christiane who’s a regular commenter over at Internet Monk?
If so, she doesn’t sound half as extreme as you describe.
Perhaps something about Velour and her went synergistic (and not in a good way)?
AKA Velour brought out Christiane’s dark side in some way?
Dee, I stand with you. I watched the stuff going on in Twitter and was quite angry. I saw history repeating itself. Once again, I’m a little late in the game, but not as late as last time. Last time was with someone else which I will explain later
I believed it was Jennifer Michelle Greenberg (JMG) that you were referring to back in September and I know now I was correct based on Julie Anne’s comment. What I wanted to say/wish to say to those on Twitter who criticized you was/is that being a free thinker is great, the right thing to do, but with that comes the responsibility to actually think!
And by that I mean, study the patterns of behavior. I was disheartened to see people who have known you for a long time to so quickly question your judgement and I felt like in some cases perhaps people were trying to show they don’t automatically side with anyone. In my opinion, these folks (like all of us) fancy themselves as being objective. But for crying out loud, if you are anything, you are meticulous, you do not make off the cuff accusations and don’t present them lightly without having done some homework. I was disappointed when I saw people who in my opinion should have known better, jumped to conclusions/assumptions.
To those reading this, who do not know what I am talking about, Dee on Twitter pointed out JMG’s inconsistent abuse story and included a link to a creepy music video that JMG did. When Dee wrote her first post in September about JMG without naming her, I immediately figured it must be JMG because it was right around the time I saw on Twitter JMG had blocked Jules and a number of others. By the end of that thread, JMG had unblocked her & feigned that it was some sort of misunderstanding. Dee was quite generous/kind in not naming her at that time. She let JMG have her day at the Caring Well Conference without being called out.
When Dee questioned JMG”s abuse story, people were shocked and appalled, how dare she question someone’s abuse story. One Twitterer said something like, “I know there are issues between the two of you, but” (I don’t remember the exact words)… That comment is sin leveling and dead wrong. Dee had not sinned. At the time, I wanted to jump in, but didn’t. What I wanted to highlight in Tweeting, to bolster Dee’s comment that she’s actually been dealing with JMG with restraint, (which I at least did endorse via a Tweet (EvangFeminist), was her September post where she stood up to JMG, but was gracious and kind to her enemy. The thing was I only suspected JMG was the same person she talked about in September, I had no proof until this post.
In the Twitter thread, Dee said she had even more info that she has not shared, she has been showing restraint. I believe her. If people started doing some homework, they would have known about the video for instance. JMG never hid her creepy video. I have to wonder if the SBC didn’t know exactly what they were doing in selecting JMG. They are the big winners here. As the expression goes, divide and conquer…
At the beginning of my comment, I said I felt like history was repeating itself. I documented how Jeff Crippen lied, deceived, bullied, manipulated people and sabotaged ACFJ causing it to crash (through deliberate calculated inaction). He wanted everyone to believe it was Barbara Roberts’ fault that it crashed, but again he was responsible via “The Woman Behind The Curtain” (TWBTC) whom he convinced to leave ACFJ and who retained ownership of the URL. Barbara endured an even worse on line stoning than what happened to Dee. I witnessed this (on line) after already being aware of a victim whom he hurt and who had warned me about him. I documented this all in a paper I self published at this site.
https://sisterspeaksdotblog.wordpress.com
Although it’s many pages, it really does not take all that long to read. To anyone wondering how Jeff responded, he blocked me, and cleaned up his public Twitter account (stopped reviling people on Twitter because he got caught). I published the paper in September of 2019. You have to go back to July 2019 & before to see evidence of his reviling. For all I know, he may still be reviling people, but under an anonymous account.