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https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/evangelical-history/90-years-ago-today-when-a-pastor-in-texas-shot-and-killed-mr-chipps-in-his-baptist-church/

“Norris was the most significant Southern fundamentalist of the first half of the 20th century…[besides] First Baptist Fort Worth…from 1935 to 1950 he also pastored simultaneously Temple Baptist Church in Detroit…he was one of the first megachurch pastors, or perhaps we should say megachurches, since he pastored two of them at the same time, in two different states.”

Church of SBC bureaucrats Jonathan Howe (denomination’s new PR guy) and Augie Boto (its attorney) looking to ‘restore’ Senior Pastor Sam Boyd following ‘personal failing’:

https://us9.campaign-archive.com/home/?u=c4e3ef55eba77faa89dfde8f1&id=e17bae574b

“Below is a letter from Sam Boyd to our church congregation. It is intended to answer questions that have been raised, and to more openly communicate the basis of his resignation.”

“the Elders are continuing to offer and provide him with the support necessary for him to seek healing and restoration.”

“Members of Forest Hills Baptist Church,
I understand that my resignation has caused some of you to ask questions about the suddenness of my decision and the limited information provided. This body of Elders has always supported me and my ministry…Because of errors of judgment and personal failing, I have fallen short of the Glory of God, and I feel the need to step away and renew my personal life and relationship with the Lord.”

http://bpnews.net/53548/howe-named-ec-vp-of-communications#

“NASHVILLE (BP) — Jonathan P. Howe has been named vice president of communications for the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee effective Sept. 5…Howe most recently served as director of strategic initiatives with LifeWay Christian Resources…In that role, he was responsible for the content strategy and marketing of ThomRainer.com, EdStetzer.com and LifeWayPastors.com …Howe currently teaches Sunday School at Forest Hills Baptist Church in Nashville”

[the MinisterSearch tool (directory of SBC pastors) and was yanked off the denomination’s website just hours after Howe assumed responsibility for PR]

“D. August (Augie) Boto…announced last month that he will retire as EC executive vice president at the end of September.”

Honestly, if anyone does not see that there are serious shenanigans going on behind all of this . . . well, I guess they will just continue to get away with this foolishness. Whatever these institutions are all about, they are not functional parts of the Body of Christ, nor the work of spreading the good news of God’s love for man. Moneymakers, powermakers, people controllers? I don’t know what their agendas are, but I would like to see anyone legitimately defend a shepherd who lives 1000’s of miles from his flock.

Jerome: [the MinisterSearch tool (directory of SBC pastors) and was yanked off the denomination’s website just hours after Howe assumed responsibility for PR]

This decision might be related to the law suit mentioned in this 9/7 sbcvoices item:

https://sbcvoices.com/houston-chronicles-long-article-on-sbc-autonomy-can-the-sbc-maintain-its-non-liability-in-abuse-cases/

in which SBC leaders at levels above the autonomous local congregation that is directly involved are included among the respondents.

If this is a protective measure in the interests of delaying harm to SBC entities, it’s understandable though the “optics” are really bad.

Wade Burleson’s abuser registry proposal is mentioned or alluded to at the end, and a reason for the refusal to implement this eminently sensible protective measure is suggested to be the possibility that it could create perception of responsibility and liability on the part of whatever SBC entity maintains the registry.

So it really is up to outsiders to do this job for them.

Samuel Conner: So it really is up to outsiders to do this job for them.

I get Wade’s proposal. I do. I just don’t trust the SBC to do it well enough. I trust the Houston Chronicle’s database a lot more.

I’ll be honest, though–I don’t really trust SBC churches to use either one or to use them wisely.

Friend,

That WP article illustrates a hazard of making bequests to institutions — you have no way of knowing if the institution will remain true to its mission, or if the officers who control the institution will share your values.

Jerome: [btw, this SBC MinisterSearch directory that they’ve recently ‘disappeared’ was a key source for the Houston Chronicle’s work]

Thinking out loud, if there is still a reasonably accurate directory of all congregations affiliated with SBC, I imagine (and it is an imagination as I don’t have the skills to create such a tool) that it would be relatively straightforward (for people who know how to do this sort of thing) to build a tool that would go through the websites of these congregations (the great majority must have websites, one would think, as outreach and communication tools) and “scrape” information identifying the officers. Doubtless there would need to be a certain amount of human intervention to check/validate the results.

Of course, there’s no guarantee that the church websites themselves are accurate.

Perhaps it would be a useful group project for concerned people with the requisite skills.

Myself, I’m starting to feel like Max, where are the mature in both age and Christianity?

Second thought, where did Pete Wilson get “whitewashed” so he could work as a pastor again?

Something more disturbing about Pete Wilson leaving his family. His wife’s standing depended upon Pete’s standing. He destroyed both her family life and public life. The idea he wasn’t thinking about that when he left just makes him a much greater narcissist.

Is there a bit of a “cult of personality” going on with multi campus mega churches?

Brian: Something more disturbing about Pete Wilson leaving his family. His wife’s standing depended upon Pete’s standing.

All of the men who make a big deal about how women should give up careers/ceed control to men? This is the result of that stuff. this is why we dont need to do that.

Beakerj: Is there some connection

I think dee is making a link without explicitly saying it and I don’t love that honestly. I’m guessing the gossip has been swirling or she has back sources but…I’ve had people gossiping about me and someone at work when it wasn’t happening before. I’d rather not talk about this lady without something concrete.

“But a parish has wants and claims which can be only known by a clergyman constantly resident, which no proxy can be capable of satisfying to the same extent. Edmund might, in the common phrase, do the duty of Thornton, that is, he might read prayers and preach, without giving up Mansfield Park; he might ride over every Sunday… and go through divine service; he might be the clergyman of Thornton Lacey every seventh day, if that would content him. But it will not. He knows that human nature needs more lessons than a weekly sermon can convey; and that if he does not live among his parishioners, and prove himself by constant attention their well-wisher and friend, he does very little either for their good or his own.”

– Jane Austen, Mansfield Park

TS00: Honestly, if anyone does not see that there are serious shenanigans going on behind all of this . . . well, I guess they will just continue to get away with this foolishness.

“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED! (on pain of Eternal Hell)”

HUG: “Remember Furtick Mansions?”

I’m confused, does furtick live in multiple locations and pastor in multiple locations, beyond ‘guest preaching’ but actually as staff? Because that’s the part that seems odd to me.

Meredithwiggle:
dee,

Thanks, Dee! (I’m a longtime lurker and fan BTW.) Even a lot of Austen fans don’t like Mansfield Park, but I find it to be laugh-out-loud funny, and the quote seemed quite appropriate in the context of your post.

I love *Mansfield Park*! The older I get, the more I appreciate it.

Also love the older (’80s?) dramatization with the improbably named Sylvestra LeTouzel. Made back before the BBC decided they had to make Austen sexy and relevant. (Not that I’ve ever objected to Colin Firth’s wet shirt, mind you.)

Lea,

This is much worse though. She was working for the church, not an employer on the outside. She didn’t have a job to go to after Pete left.

This may apply to Pete and some of the others in the megachurch movement:

Ephesians 4:17 (KJV), “This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,”

—

With the advent of mass media, distance is no object. Many never even see their senior pastor but for a view screen.

hmmm…

I once attended services for a time in a so called megachurch over-flow-room. There amongst the glow of a giant Jumbotron, parents talked, children played, and I sat there climate controlled dimly lit ‘content’ with privileged coffee, breakfast, n’ iPad in hand with free internet access listening to the loud Christian contemporary music and the cat with no hat spouting the latest canned mass-media store bought sermon rambling bout the ‘big’ ole screen. One fish, two fish, loud fish, rude fish. It was a great break, and greatly entertaining —never having to knew a living soul. he he. Everyone acted as if this was normal. I eventually told a Paster there that this was my (then) perfered type of religious service, and he kinda looked at me funny. When he asked why, I responded, we all liked the convenience that if it ‘by chance’ it got too loud, we could always simply now turn it down. (grin)

Fast forward.

Now they have common mega-church annexed facilitated Jumbotrons MILES away from each other. No one at these facilities ever get to see the ‘real live person’ [senior paster] in the flesh, just some credentialed cycling hirerling local Pastoral facilitator individual. Sometimes people even dress up! Dee, AND No One Thinks Twice. Go Fish! Welcome to the modern 501c3 church age. Now we all have big @zz wall tv’s and can watch the broadcast from the convenience of our snug family room. Whoa! Sure cuts down on #Churchtoo #Metoo ‘this present abuse’ ™ quite a bit! Ya think? And tithing is now ‘optional’. CICK! Snug as a bug in a rug…

Dave A A: “Does Suicide Always Lead to Hell?” My answer is Yes— a living hell for your widow and orphans.

I do not know your experience of suicide but need to push back against this. Yes, survivors suffer immensely. But we need to move away from the old mentality that taking one’s own life is a selfish act.

The suicide rate in the US rose 30% between 1999 and 2016, according to the CDC. Veterans, seniors, people in rural areas, folks in nearly every state are ending their own lives in greater numbers.

People with depression and suicidal thoughts need to be able to speak up and seek help. Calling them selfish runs the risk of silencing them. People need to know that they are loved, that their lives have value, that things can get better. They need to know that someone is ready to listen kindly, for as long as it takes.

I have volunteered extensively with bereaved people of all ages for about 26 years. It is impossible for me to forget the candlelight vigil for a 14-year-old who killed himself. The boy’s parents and siblings were at the 3-hour outdoor vigil, and the topics were love, grief, the value of his short life, and prevention, prevention, prevention. All 2,900 kids in his school were screened for depression. Extra counselors were on the premises. The school psychologist worked tirelessly. Students had leave to attend the funeral, and several served as pallbearers.

Every club and team in the boy’s school held an event in his memory. His family sat through a football game dedicated to their young boy’s life. It was heartbreaking and uplifting, and nobody talked about selfishness.

mot: What is the SBC afraid of?

My impression from a recent sbcvoices post and comments thereto is that there is concern that SBC entities that have no formal authority over local congregations (and therefore no ability to impose wise policies) might come under legal attack because they may have more resources than local congregations have.

“responsibility without authority” is a real problem.

I think that the convention could make certain basic sensible policies (intrusive background checks for hires, mandatory reporting of all offenses, etc) a condition of membership in the association, and could promptly eject congregations that are found (I would think this would generally occur after the fact of a crime taking place) to not be in compliance with the “policy prerequisites” for participation in the convention.

This might impose a measure of “quality control” without entailing clear liability for what happens in the local congregations.

Perhaps something like this will happen.

Friend: But we need to move away from the old mentality that taking one’s own life is a selfish act.

I think it’s really hard for surviving family to understand and I absolutely get that. But it seems pretty clear that calling people selfish does nothing to prevent suicide.

Close family relationships can be a protective factor, but there is so much more to it.

Friend,
I have a loved one with mental illness who attempted suicide and I wouldn’t think of it as selfishness. I was overly harsh toward this young man, perhaps, since he was a famous pastor expert on the subject.

Dave A A,

Thank you for responding. I am sorry that your loved one has struggled, and hope that things have improved for all in your circle.

Meredithwiggle:
“He knows that human nature needs more lessons than a weekly sermon can convey; and that if he does not live among his parishioners, and prove himself by constant attention their well-wisher and friend, he does very little either for their good or his own.”

– Jane Austen, Mansfield Park

Sorry to take this on a tangent, but I think Ms. Austin needs to have a little chat with Mr. Chandler.

God sees. Wilson cannot out run himself. I suspect the spiritual sickness that led him to abandon his family will become manifest at some point–if not already–at the new church. They are very foolish to hire such a person.

Lea: That’s weird too because that distance seems pretty drivable…But at least there was a reason. It seems a bizarre thing to randomly ‘pastor’ in a church very far away. Is this resume boosting (for the church or the individual)? Is this some ‘guest’ thing? I get an occasional guest preaching, that’s pretty normal, but not being on staff.

Is this some new trend or just something a couple people are doing?

Austin is a good 4-5 hour drive from DFW due to traffic. Most of it is on 35/35E which is a major truck traffic corridor. Plus Rockwall is NOT the easiest place from which to start (begin with two very large bridges over Lake Ray Hubbard, then either go through downtown Dallas or a LONG loop.

To answer the original question, if the pastor is coming from a distant area, he (or she, in some churches) may need time to arrange for family to move, change schools (maybe the call is near the end of a school year, so the children would stay until school year end). So ONLY for a BRIEF time, I would have no problem. But as a permanent arrangement, ideally the pastor should live in the general area of the community served (though as we know that doesn’t mean anything in the megachurch era).

Lea,

“they were quite matter of fact about giving sermons simply being a profession, with men scrambling for the best (richest) parsonages.”
++++++++++++

sound like 2019.

goodness, where’s the progress…

ridiculous

Catholic Gate-Crasher,

Yes, yes! I love the “old” Mansfield Park.

But I find it incredibly tragic, not laugh-out-loud funny.

Wish I could make this relevant to this current post…

“Does the male rainmaker of a previous mega church get a pass?” (Dee)

In church megalopolis, THE most important thing in selection of a leader is his ability to produce lots of nickels and noses. If he has a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a few marketing gimmicks, it matters not if he meets the Biblical qualifications of pastor or if he’s had a bout of moral weakness.

Max: that was his apostolic role, not a pastoral office.

Excellent point. Paul does not strike me as a consoling figure, but rather as an organizer and scholar with a highly active BS detector.

(I also don’t recall any epistles in which Paul insists on custom chariots or explains away various dalliances.)

I read Pete Wilson’s book “Empty Promises”. I picked it up from “Ollie” book shelf where unsold books collect. I thought the tittle was interesting a good Christian book. He wrote chapters of how empty promises occurs in things like “The seduction of Achievement” “The Perils of Power” “Addicted to Beauty” “Deceptively Good” all of which tempts all of us who are Christian and to stay on the biblical path and avoid these pitfalls. My son whom I sometime worry about his Christian faith told me “Dad.. I looked up this guy Pete Wilson.. and he his wife Brandi is divorcing him.” Then I did some research today and found out some disconcerting things about the Pete Wilson. His secretary following him to start company A and possibly living in the same building as him. Apparently he is not too burnout to be a long distance commuter of a church in Michigan while living in Nashville. His wife and three children is left to carry on in their lives when daddy took off with another younger woman. What value are we teaching his kids.. apparently Pastor Wilson of if he is still a pastor doesn’t read his own book. God may forgive him but it would be hard for Brandi and his children to forgive him. It makes my son more cynical of Christianity where leaders misbehave. As a physician we have a license to practice medicine. If we misbehave in unethical conduct every two years we get privileged re extended and reapply for practice at the institution we practice. They check our back ground for DUI and sworn statements. Maybe we should do the same. Misbehaving preacher no matter how famous should be judge by the same rules they preached.

Luk637,

Is it ‘piling on’ to suggest that this is exactly what cheap grace is all about? That this is exactly how pastors and elders have gotten away with so much abuse for so long? If so, please delete.

Lea: My point was more like…does this guy have/have access to a private plane, which is very expensive. Because if you’re flying commercial it’s generally not worth it.

Does it matter?
Either way, it doesn’t cost him a penny.
“TITHE! TITHE! TITHE!”

TS00,

And all tax free too.
The Jesus bizz is one of the most profitable rackets you can be into.

TS00: scripture so often uses the analogy of sheep and wolves. One of the main things the Church is supposed to do is provide a shepherd for the defenseless flock

TWW is a chronicle of American shepherds who were really wolves.

Obviously, the Scriptures do warn about wolves in sheep’s clothing which can certainly apply to undershepherds. An undershepherd (under the Chief Shepherd 1 Peter 5) is responsible to Jesus to oversee the “flock” that belongs to Jesus. There is no way that a pastor (undershepherd) can know and care for the people when he just flies in. In fact, he is not a pastor. He may be a “communicator” or a “speaker” or a “?”, but he is not a pastor by Biblical definition. Eugene Peterson felt that he could only effectively serve about 500 people: to know their names, their children’s names, their life stories, etc., and it took time with the people to be effective.

I recently read the following quote: “the most dangerous pastor is someone with more gifts/abilities than character.”

There are hundreds of faithful pastors in small and normal sized churches (not mega) who are faithfully serving. Tragically it is the big name celebrities who make the news feeds.

Don Jones: Tragically it is the big name celebrities who make the news feeds.

As that beautiful Rabbi from Nazareth once said:

“They have their reward…”

Hmmmm… What’s that beautiful books saying regarding judging others? Seems to me a lot of people are passing judgement on Pastor Pete. I was blessed enough to be a member of the initial church in Nashville, in my son’s cafeteria, he is an amazing pastor!!! Let’s let God take care of any judgement that there may need to be for him, and all of us worry about the judgement God will have for us.

LaVona: What’s that beautiful books saying regarding judging others?

LaVona, you might want to take a closer look at that Book about the obligation of the Body of Christ to “judge” what goes on in its midst. For starters, take a look at John 7 – you will find there that the Church is to judge with righteous judgment; yes, believers are exhorted to weigh things like this in the balance and judge it. Righteous judgment sees sin for what it is and it is not afraid to point a finger at the offender. This is not a holier-than-thou response, but a mechanism God put in place for the Church to regulate itself. “Judge that you be not judged” is overworked and intended to shame folks into keeping their mouths shut, without rebuking and correcting sinners as we ought to keep the Church pure. Wayward “pastors” are not immune from judgment by the pew.

i see nowhere in the post that Brandi Wilson doscussed anything. It seems to have been authored by someone else other than a one sentence quote about being devastated. clickbait…