“The lowest form of animal life on earth is a child molester.” -Charlie Daniels
Tom Chantry’s new home
So far, so good. We lost power once and the rain is significant and is still continuing. The weather people are predicting flooding in Raleigh. Please pray for the people at the coast who have experienced serious damage.
Apparently, something is going on over at The Village Church. Matt Chandler is due to make a significant announcement on Sunday and has asked that no children be present during that time. We have heard about a situation involving a child recently and have offered to help. Could this be about that?
Warning: Trigger Alert: The following account will provide details on the abuse of children.
Once again, Todd Wilhelm, the “Official™ TWW Hero,” hopped into his car and to make the tedious 2 1/2 hour journey to the Yavapai County where he obtained a copy of Chantry’s arrest warrant and indictment.
Here is the link to the document: https://www.scribd.com/document/388497932/Thomas-Chantry-Arrest-Warrant-and-Indictment-Case-P1300CR201801308-Redacted
At the top very beginning of the document, you will see a list of the 9 charges These charges involve one child *under the age of 15.*
- 4 counts of aggravated assault
- 1 count of child abuse
- 4 counts of molestation of a child.
The document claims that there was the frequent punishment of a child which involved hitting. This alleged abuse left severe bruising. This punishment was done with a hand and with a boat oar. Also, it is alleged that this hitting had a sexual motivation and the child was in 5th grade when he was fondled.
These molestations and assaults happened over the course of three years.
Motion to hold Chantry until trial-Trigger Alert-Graphic
The following is a link to the motion to hold Chantry in jail until trial. This is a deeply disturbing read since the account describes, in detail, the specifics of the abuse. The State of Arizona believes, as do I, that Chantry is a danger to children and should not be released on bail while awaiting trial. I agree with Todd that Tom Chantry is a dangerous man and hope he will be tried, convicted and put in prison for a very long time.
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/388479059/content#from_embed
Other points to consider
- Chantry’s wife, Karen, sent a letter to their few supporters, insisting that this was an attack by the *enemies of our Lord* on a godly man. I guess that means the state of Arizona, as well as those of us who care about the safety of children, are agents of Satan….Been there, heard that one before….Yawn inducing…
She offers no sympathy for the victims. What a surprise. Here is a link to her letter.
https://www.scribd.com/document/388539292/Chantry-Update-by-Karen-Chantry-9-11-2018#from_embed - It is my hope that Tom Chantry’s children are safe.
- Chantry was back home, awaiting sentencing, when he got word that he would be arrested.To his credit, he and his wife flew to Arizona immediately.
- Susan Eazer, who ordered this arrest of Chantry, was the prosecutor in his last trial He is awaiting sentencing this month on 2 counts of aggravated assault. She has made it known she plans to retry the 4 counts of sexual abuse from the previous trial which resulted in a hung jury. Would it be possible to combine this new case with the previous cases?
- Susan Eazer deserves our thanks for pushing ahead on the accusations surrounding Tom Chantry.
- ARBCA: Be ashamed!
I reminded Todd that I had been suspicious of Tom Chantry when I first read the indictments. The account of his actions appeared to demonstrate the classic maneuvers of a pedophile. Todd agreed with me even back then.
I wonder if any of the leaders and supporters are wondering if they made a mistake in their support of Chantry. I have an offer for them. If they would like me to help them understand how to spot a pedophile, shoot me an email.
Thank you for keeping us informed about what is going on in this case. Very sad that a child suffered at his hands. Glad the prosecutor is going forward with the new case.
Am praying for those in the path of Florence.
1st?
2. Dang, I was way layed debating a Jehovah’s Witness on another site.
“The lowest form of animal life on earth is a child molester.” -Charlie Daniels
Worth repeating.
The millstones are being stacked up in Heaven awaiting Judgment Day … yes, even for pedophiles who have masqueraded as preachers.
I say GREAT! to the title. Keep him in prison.
I don’t know what to think about Chantry’s wife. She is either complicit, completely brainwashed in complementarianism and refuses to think he is lying, or she doesn’t want him in prison because he is the breadwinner.
I don’t know what to think about Chantry’s wife. She is either complicit, completely brainwashed in complementarianism and refuses to think he is lying, or she doesn’t want him in prison because he is the breadwinner.
Words cannot describe the vileness of this pathetic excuse of a man. I hope he stays in prison for the rest of his natural life. And hopefully that’s only the beginning for him.
Bridget,
It could be a bit of all three. I recall someone commenting on this blog many years ago that their elders were so brainwashed that they would murder the entire congregation if the pastor so ordered. That was the situation I felt I was in as well. As I explained to a friend, ‘These people could come upon the pastor holding a bloody knife over a dead body, and would believe him when he asserted that he had just found it and was pulling it out.’ Many would go to great lengths to defend him, in spite of any and all evidence of malfeasance.
It is almost impossible to believe the mind control these deceivers exert over people. I can foresee Karen never admitting, even to herself, the crimes of her husband. These people have been well trained to ignore all obvious evidence and trust their beloved authorities in all things. No matter what. They have turned off their minds.
Prison is not a safe place for pedos, is it? Chantry may get a taste of his own medicine!
Usually Chandler doesn’t have children in the service, they usually go to either Little Village (preschoolers) or Kids Village (through 5th grade; 6th grade starts middle schools in most Texas school districts including Lewisville ISD where Village Church is located).
I’m out of town on vacation this week so I wouldn’t be able to visit and bring back a report. I know they’ve set aside every Sunday night this month (excluding the 1st Sunday which was Labor Day weekend) for prayer about their facilities.
No, even the prison gangs won’t help a child molester. Many of them were abused themselves.
Fresh meat for general population.
I wonder how many others are out there who don’t have the strength to come forward.
Oh that report is jaw droppingly awful, even if you’re used to dealing with safeguarding issues. I’m so glad he has been remanded in prison because I totally agree that he is a man who is unable to control his impulses to sadistically torture children for his own sexual needs.
I am so sorry for these victims, I am so glad they have come forward to stop this disgusting man continuing his brutality. I hope & pray that any other victims will now feel safe enough to come forward & add their testimony.
The way I read that letter, Mrs. Chantry believes her husband to be innocent of all the accusations. She doesn’t offer sympathy to the victims because she believes there are no victims. Denial can be a powerful river, indeed. Karen Chantry is much further down the complementarian path of life than Karen Hinckley was, and has a lot more to lose at this point if her husband is indeed a pedophile.
NJ,
That’s what I got out of it as well. I get it, you want to think the best of your spouse, but at some point you have to say to yourself, multiple people, what am I missing?
Agreed. Misplaced loyalty is very powerful, particularly among people of faith. They sincerely believe that to think poorly of a friend – let alone pastor or spouse – is sin. I recall my spouse once throwing at me that I would believe evil of my own mother, and being horrified when I admitted that there was always that possibility, however infinitesimal. Some will never even consider evil claims against a trusted pastor or family member, no matter how significant the evidence. My spouse is of that sort, and loyally defends our spiritually abusive former pastor. Despite mounds of evidence, all I got was: ‘But we know him. We have served with him for over a decade.’ Apparently, some naive or self defensive mode demands some to believe that only people they don’t know are evil, however illogical. Everyone is known by someone. Even monsters have mothers.
All of the above, most likely. Wives and children of wayward pastors are also victims.
While I do not deny the evil of T. Chantry, the real evil s ARBCA. Peolpe/leaders doing bad things will always be with us, but a “church/church organization covering for/protecting pedos is a order of magitude, at least, worse…. I my book there are few words to discribe how disgusted I am with the ARBCA…..
I just want to thank Todd for going up to Yavapai County to collect these documents and make them available. I am also glad that Chantry is back in jail (which, btw, is not prison, there is a difference, jail is run by the county and prison by the state). I read the documents Todd provided and the whole thing is just horrifying. I am not a fan of Yavapai County DA Sheila Polk for other reasons, but I am glad, very glad that she and Susan Eazer are pushing hard for justice in this case.
It’s my understanding Tom and Karen Chantry have three children. Reading the motion to hold Tom Chantry, I wonder if anyone else besides me has wondered if he abused his own children?
ARBCA has come across looking pretty bad on this. Folks who attend ARBCA-affiliated churches, need to think seriously about moving along … endure the shunning and escape the snare.
Chantry ‘was’ in the ministry for 25+ years … think about it.
Have been wondering about that for a while. It’s hard not to suspect that corporal punishment is the norm for child discipline in that home, and that TJC is the one who administers it. And what might the children be learning from this about “how to be a father”?
A related concern is to wonder (I think TW has expressed a concern that resembles this, pointed at WC) what may have happened in TJC’s childhood that might shed some light on the origins of what he became as an adult. That’s not to excuse TJC.
On the Healing Journey,
You beat Steve!
We have had tons of rain in Raleigh with some wind. Thankfully we have not lost power but others have..
We will continue to follow the Chantry story and will update here when things happen. I am praying they keep this man in jail until his trial.
drstevej,
They come to my door about once a month. I think they consider me training territory for new JWs. I talk their ear off about sex abuse and the church. I told them I would be happy to come and speak to them at their local Kingdom Hall about child safety.I tell them about things I write on the blog. I talk so much, they don’t get a word in. But they don’t get a door slammed on them so they are pleased.
His own children have been a concern of mine ever since I found out about this and learned he has children. On another site I asked, twice, a few weeks ago, “Are his children safe?” My greatest concern though, remains for the victims and their families as they heal and try to recover.
Cathryn L Suhovecky,
She does mention that she now has to work to support the family. jerry Sandusky’s wife was in abject denial, claiming that nothing went on in her home. I fear that her denial may have cause her to overlook the activities of Chantry. I suspect there are more victims our there.
It’s now over one year since the fans of Chantry tried to cause me all sorts of problems. But the Lutherans were correct. The writer(s) lied in the letter and are in violation of the commandments.
I still laugh wondering what the Chief of Cardiology at Duke thought when he read the letter about excommunicating me from my church.
Lita,
I agree. Men who commit acts like he has been accused of committing are despicable. They not only beat a child but they molest on top of that.
Totally agree. I plan to write a post on how all of this contributes to the rise of pedophilia in the Protestant church.I plan to write about how the actions of the Vatican years ago led to the problem they have today and how the Protestants are doing the same thing.
Yep- isn’t it interesting that even prisoners seem to have better values than ARBCA?
Mark R,
He must be concerned that the parents who do bring their kids might hear something they shouldn’t. He made a big deal about this so I think something is up. Amy Smith heard about the sex abuse of a 3 year old child and that the church didn’t take it seriously and that the couple was shunned. Apparently there was a lawsuit. I’m sure Chandler will say “Trust us. You don’t have the. whole story.”
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I am with you on that. I do worry for his children. I would like to ask her if he beat his children “like the Scripture says.”
Max,
I wonder if the ARBC is guilty of “racketeering”? Covering up clearly felonious behavior is sure flurting with that..
Chandler’s thought processes have been all over the map recently. Pulpit & Pen (no friend of this blog) has ripped him for dabbling in Charismatic teachings and for dissing Trump supporters. (Politics aside, Flower Mound is a strong-GOP area.)
At the rate he’s going, he’ll drive off those who don’t like his Charismatic views over to traditional SBC Prestonwood, and those who do will end up over at Gateway. He may end up needing to merge with what’s left of Fellowship.
I hate to think so morbidly, but his thinking almost appears like something is wrong. I hope his brain cancer hasn’t returned but that would make sense of all he’s doing.
Agreed. And it may be that the victims and their families don’t have the most helpful supports and resources. The churches, and perhaps especially the more conservative churches, are not all that great at helping people who have suffered grievous “under the sun” harms.
dee,
Chandler is making enemies from all sites. P&P (no friend of this blog) has ripped him recently for his dabbling into Charismatic views and for his recent insulting of Trump supporters (remember he’s in a GOP-leaning suburb).
Also there was a very bad review posted on their Facebook page from a police officer’s wife who thought Chandler was taking the sides of the criminals. Not too long after that, Prestonwood Baptist posted on their homepage about how they sponsor funerals for fallen officers AND pay the full cost of the funeral. Trying to take some folks away?
Chandler has stated that he would like to see people go elsewhere–at this rate he’ll drive the traditionals to Prestonwood and the Charismatic leaners to Gateway.
Samuel Conner,
Why pick on conservative “churches”? There are plenty of liberal “churches” that also don’t properly support victims. Its a problem of the heart to which liberal “churches” are not immune simply by being liberal.
BillToo,
It’s valid point. My thought is that in addition to the perhaps benign neglect that you can get in a liberal church, you can get the additional positive sorrow in a conservative church of being charged with “sin” because of the way your sufferings have shaped you. That does happen, sadly. In my experience of conservative Evangelical churches, if you are basically “OK”, they can help you to escape post-mortem punishments (a benefit that I don’t deprecate, though I have doubts about what the nature of the punishments might be). But if you have significant “real-life” problems, it is much harder to find help within the church. I don’t think that it was always like this.
Never underestimate how convincingly a narcissistic abuser can lie. They can look you right in the eye and lie with great sincerity and emotion. They really believe that the rules that apply to other people don’t apply to them and that they are innocent victims of slander or whatever. It is mind boggling how well they can carry this off.
I am so glad that evil man is finally behind bars, and I hope he stays there for a very long time.
Did you win?
I’d trust them about as far as I could throw a Huey helicopter with one arm.
I suspect that believing themselves uniquely called to build God’s kingdom, they view their lies and deception as necessary and virtuous, like Rahab.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C.S. Lewis
How could Chandler even know what the “whole story” is?! Most New Calvinist pastors (whether they are in mega or mini churches) don’t know their congregations; they don’t have a pulse on the pew. They are too big to be out and about; they delegate ministering to the sheep to associate pastors or elders while they tweet their lives away on their iPhone. They only show up on Sunday mornings to deliver a sermonette. In Chandler’s case, in addition to being an SBC pastor, he is President of Acts 29 – a New Calvinist church planting network. Yeah, he’s too busy and too cool to know the folks in his church … he calls female believers at The Village Church “our girls” and says he preaches to men. There’s so much wrong with the reformed movement …
Mark R,
I love your comment. Can you point me to the comment about Chandler not supporting the officers? I would really like to post that one.
With all the bad press hither and thither (internet) how long can they last?
This is the link, I do not know if it works on this site or not.
Please note: the author of the comment is the wife of a law enforcement officer, whose family previously attended Village Church but now does not. This does not mean she isn’t telling the truth, but she does have a viewpoint that is not neutral in the matter.
https://www.facebook.com/jen.baum123/posts/10217105884825086?__tn__=K-R
Reformed (or Deformed, as I call it) theology has lasted for 500 years. So probably quite a while.
Which explains Christians and Politics on and after 2016.
The dynamic just transferred from “pastor or spouse” to President, at Mrs Chantry intensity.
I grew up with one. He could lie looking you straight in the eye with wide-eyed Innocence and butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-his-mouth Sincerity. And turn the Emotion on and off like a light switch. Charming, Concerned, and Compassionate. Until the instant you outlive your Usefulness.
I am convinced THAT is what that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote “For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light.” He was describing an NPD Sociopath.
Like Jack the Whipper, the beating is part of the molestation thrill.
I’ve just been looking at the fotie at the top of the post, captioned “Tom Chantry’s new home”. Honestly, it’s not that great of a house.
ION: Sport
Three cheers for Kenyan marathon supremo Eliud Kipchoge, who won the Berlin Marathon yesterday in a world-best time of 2:01:39, smashing the previous world best by well over a minute.
Three more cheers for Liverpool, who passed (our) first really big test of the season with a fine away win over fellow-title-challenges Spurs. Three more for Chelsea, I suppose, who also won, but by more goals, so they actually pushed us into second place on goal difference. Liverpool and Chelsea maintain a 100% start to the season, both with 5 wins from 5; but Watford’s excellent start unfortunately faltered as they lost to Scumbagchester United. Watford drop to 4th, but – early days notwithstanding – still good from them so far.
On a personal note, really chuffed to get within 3 moves of the top of the new competition 6c route at the climbing wall today, and arguably one better with a push to within 4 moves of the top of the 7a route, albeit with a rest on the rope at the first real crux. Moreover, Lesley is progressing on the balancy 6b+ in the corner and was close to on-sighting the competition 6a+. Not bad for a pair of ageing bumblies.
IHTIH
Headless Unicorn Guy,
What do you mean?
gg,
As tempted as I am to add what I understand HUG to have meant, I feel we’ve stepped into territory (specifically, party politics) that is out of scope in Wartburg.
When I met Dee in Enbruh earlier this summer, she explained the reasoning behind this very well. It’s not at all that Deebs are squeamish about contentious subjects – I don’t think anyone needs me to point that out. It’s specifically because the blog is pelted with enough troll-dung as it is – the vast majority of this does not make it past the filtering systems, but it takes a lot of work to keep it so. If anything, politics generates even more.
The purpose behind TWW is, and has always been, to support those targeted by abusive power in christian circles. Politics is a real Thing, and Wartburg isn’t opposed to it, but no blog can be about everything at once.
“We wanted to meet with Matt, but he didn’t have time for us … Matt made comments about how people were welcome to leave if they didn’t like the direction the church was taking … we were no longer able to feel loved and secure at our church … the pastors responsible for shepherding our souls cared more about a social topic, than they did about our pain …”
Frequent TWW visitors will find that this behavior by a New Calvinist pastor is nothing unusual. Most are not “pastors” in the true sense of the word. It’s my way or the highway. What love is this?!
Nick Bulbeck,
Agreed. There should be no politics on TWW. We all come from different viewpoints politically but are united in our desire to oppose abuse in the church.
Until the enemy of the Church is done with them. When the reformed movement comes to an end, tens of thousands of young reformers will be left confused. Disillusioned by the counterfeit, they may never search for the genuine. Whose plan would that be?
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Dunno what happened there! Here’s what I added:
“I think Dee made a small error with the caption. The whole building is not going to be Chantry’s new home. I’ve no doubt that his new home will be only one small room inside of the building …… which makes it even less “great”!!!!”
That’s not just in New Calvinist circles. That’s the general rule in today’s ChurchCorp.
At the outset they accept you, all the while learning if you will fit in or not. If they decide you’re not what they want, they will make you feel “unwelcome”; when you leave they’ll say their meaningless platitudes (“they just weren’t happy here, we hope they find a church home where they can serve” — of course they could care less) and move on to the newer folks.
Eventually, and even in places like DFW with newcomers arriving daily, the word gets out about how ChurchCorp treats people and the crowds dwindle. Then the senior pastor and his running buddies have to figure out what to do next (start acquiring other churches to fold into ChurchCorp, step down and go on the lecture circuit while the successor deals with the fallout and gets blamed for the eventual failure of the organization, cash out and claim it to be “God’s Will”).
Love believes all things, hopes all things, etc. I’ve long thought that it all comes down to misinterpreted scripture. Speaking of which, something occurs to me. I’m not trying to start a paedo vs. credobaptism debate, but I wonder how an expectation of regenerate-only church membership would affect people’s ability to identify a wolf who has crept in among them. Especially one in leadership. I’m not sure, maybe there’s no practical difference between that and traditions with a belief in a mixture of sheep/goats, wheat/tares etc., on the church rolls.
In the comment thread of the latest post at Thou Art The Man, somebody going by the moniker of Appalled said they’ve known Karen Chantry most of their life, and she desperately WANTS to believe Tom is not guilty of all the allegations. Plus he’s been lying to her as well. The whole comment thread is fascinating.
I wonder how Tom’s friends at Pyro are reacting now to his re-arrest (and most likely being held without bail).
Though I suspect Phil Johnson and the other MacArthurite cult followers have some hotter closer fires to deal with TMS/TMU. Maybe the accreditation auditors should have an armed escort lest they end up like Congressman Leo Ryan….
Mark R,
Wow! This was powerful. I believe her and there are many reasons why I do. I happen to know an elder at TVC from my days in Dallas. This man was open, friendly and kind while he was at Bent Tree Church. Now, he is irritable and would not dialog with me when I called him a couple of years ago.
I left a comment on her Facebook and downloaded her comment. I believe it is powerful and needs to be heard. So, I plan to post it unless I hear that it would not be a good idea.
I’m curious to know how many of them will convert to atheism and if it can be said to be widespread. I do know that a noted Calvinist apologist’s (Matt Slick) daughter has converted to atheism.
There seems to be a pattern of extremes in both directions of ‘conversion’.
Among the Reformed, there is an acknowledgment of the possibility of seeming true faith than turns out over time to be “in appearance only.” They admit that people can appear to be regenerate but not be. While I haven’t experienced this, others testify that part of neo-reformed pastoral practice seems to be to stimulate anxiety in the flock about their own status; they acknowledge that there might be wolves among the flock; that ought to extend to the leadership.
I hope that in future, “pastoral search” will be about more than “conformity to confessional standards” and “ability to preach well.” These are useful in that function within contemporary churches, but without good character are as empty as the religiously earnest lovelessness described at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 13.
I have a more profound concern about present-day church leadership models. Perhaps we are re-instantiating the pre-Pentecost unhealthy way of “being the people of God” that is visible in the Gospel accounts of Jesus and the apostles. Jesus had to leave them; the Holy Spirit would not work among them while He remained. The apostles, jostling and competing among themselves for Jesus’ favor and in hope of high status for themselves in the coming Kingdom, were (I hypothesize) grievous to the Spirit.
Perhaps in our public meetings we should not be “looking at” a solitary “expert” individual standing in front of the group and doing all the speaking. Perhaps we should be “looking at” one another and speaking to one another. I think that there are some groups that organize their meetings in this way, along the lines of the little we can discern of the (admittedly disorderly) practices of the church at Corinth (AFAIK, this is about the only clear picture in the New Testament that we have of “what actually happened” in the public meetings of the churches of the apostolic era; please enlighten my ignorance if I am overlooking something.)
In the little OP church I attended before I entered the “post-evangelical wilderness”, the congregation looked like “the apostles and Jesus” — the flock related to the Leader, but not much to “one another.” It had been that way for a looooong time, and the group was in terminal decline; its lampstand was being taken away. I think that way of “being church” may be grievous to the Spirit.
And the more Fanatical they were for Calvin, the more Fanatical they will be for Atheism.
CM,
Silence
Cathryn L Suhovecky,
No one is that brainwashed that they are completely void of common sense and reason! In her case she lived with this man and just as he’s admitted to other accusations for which the church half assed dealt with him on basically giving him a pass of forgiveness she knew darn well then what he is!
The words denial and brainwashing are complete copouts and a way for them to escape accountability. She is at least complicit in actions of his after the fact and now trying to gain sympathy for him in spite of his criminal and disgusting acts.
Let’s just call a spade a spade. There is no giving benefit of the doubt to anyone who has been complicit, lackadaisical, or compliant in the sexual assault and abuse of our most vulnerable, the children. The kids deserve better and more from us as protectors, defenders, and advocates!
This woman makes me absolutely sick and given his propensity towards S&M that includes children I hardly doubt his own children were off limits to him.
I also believe if he has been abusing his children his wife would most likely justify, defend, and hide it! He is the lowest form of life and in my book she is no different. My comments are harsh and certainly they are not excluded from the gift of Jesus Christ however that gift will never be taken so long as they continue abusing through their lies and deceit.
At this point forgiveness is not even on the table because I believe justice is being served for the victims and future victims are being spared from this animal with him being placed where he belongs, prison.
I’m so disgusted with his wife, shame on her!
By the way shame on Tripp and the others who covered for him
NJ,
It is fascinating. I have been reading the comments. She appears to be in denial.She says those who are attacking her husband are evil. That means me-well known daughter of Stan (sic)
I hope her kids are safe.
dee,
Plus minion of Satin. 😉
I too hope her kids are safe, as well as her seeing the light sooner rather than becoming the next Dottie Sandusky. Whatever ‘normal’ is going to look like for her in the years ahead, she’ll need help getting there and becoming functional. My guess is that all this will result in TC going away for a long time, and she’ll be a defacto single parent. If/when he does get out, he’ll be permanently on the SO registry probably as a fixated pedophile, which has a number of ramifications. Right now though, I doubt Karen has begun to seriously think through any of this stuff.
dee,
Her kids are safe now, with dad in jail. The question is “were” they abused in the past.
dee,
No surprise there. Doubt you’ll get any apology from them.
I’m wondering now if Chantry sent the letters to your acquaintances? You were getting too close to the truth . . .
dee,
No surprise there. Doubt you’ll get any apology from them.
I’m wondering now if Chantry sent the letters to your acquaintances? You were getting too close to the truth . . .
They are safe now, with dad in jail. The question is ‘were’ they safe in the past.
This right here would explain so much of what I have run into in recent years. The deliberate, systematic undermining of assurance in the name of sanctification and rooting out false conversions, has to be one of the worst forms of spiritual abuse down through the centuries.
When it comes to lecture style worship, sometimes I think we could learn a thing or two from the Eastern Orthodox. I’m a cessationist on certain spiritual gifts, so I don’t really think we can duplicate everything that went on in Corinth.
It sells books, brings in tithes, and helps wolves maintain control over the sheep. If you want to get both tired and angry read this lengthy article by MacArthur on how to identify the elect: https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/52-3/identifying-the-elect-part-3
They give an impossible standard – who can possibly live like this consistently? No one. And to be consistent with their theology, they should not bother people with this topic because there is nothing anyone can do to about it because free will has no role in one’s salvation – there is no way a non-elect person can make themselves elect (and vice versa). I chose a MacArthur quote because he is in other recent posts here, but similar quotes exist for all the New-Calvinists.
And who gets to determine if the preaching is powerful? if one actually believes this at all.
And where does scripture make this demand? Or any of the demands that MacArthur states?
He is a wolf . . .
I hope not. I certainly hope it’s not inevitable, because I am myself in a huge phase of transition – namely, religious un-conversion – and I hope to do better than lurch from one extreme to the other. I don’t, for instance, want to become a dawkins; I’ve seen too many good people both drawn to, and energised by, religious faith.
I don’t call myself an atheist, but an agnostic, because I’ve seen some very interesting things that don’t readily fit an entirely secular world view. I don’t know what those things prove, and if indeed there is a god I don’t know whether he/she/it is indeed represented by Jesus of Nazareth (as I’d hoped). But that’s not the same as my needing there to be no god. In fact I’m more sympathetic to (and even, excited by) the idea of “divine healing”, or of God “speaking”, than many professing christians I know..!
I was always something of an “all or nothing” christian. I’ve always felt that if there’s a God, and if God became human, and the experience moved him to compassion, then that changes everything. But giving up on that idea doesn’t mean I intend to give up on every conceivable other worthwhile dream.
I very rarely actually laugh at the stupid on display in fundamentalist religion. But I did there!
I just think she loves her husband and is unable to consider that these charges against him might be true. She could also be privately questioning herself and her choice in a mate, and possibly wondering if the accusations against her husband have merit. Who can say what goes on within the mind and heart of a person going through such turmoil?
I am thinking that right now while she is in the thick of this mess, she just doesn’t have the wherewithal to consider the dreadful implications against her husband. It may be that as time goes on and her husband remains in jail, in her alone moments she might start to connect the dots. Maybe her memory will be alerted to something she saw or heard in the past but brushed it off.
Dee, I I’m the same way when it comes to Jehovah’s Witnesses. They used to come to our house regularly and I would have long conversations with them. Then one day they came when I wasn’t home and only my husband was here. He told them I wasn’t interested in talking to them anymore. LOL. He was getting tired of them coming around on a regular basis. I can’t blame him. Sometimes those conversations would last over an hour. Hubby felt it was an intrusion until our otherwise irenic lifestyle.
*an intrusion *into* our otherwise irenic lifestyle*. predictive text at work again.
Now that is a powerful quote. Those who abuse their power in the name of God are uniquely evil because they are able to manipulate people’s consciences in such a way that to question them is to question God.
Absolutely, I also wonder about Walt.
I’m going to tell on myself here. I often say that I’m outside the charmed circle of the household of faith. Well, maybe not so much, or at least, not in my mind. I have very recently taken up yoga after I got a very bad result on some blood work (let’s just say my A1C skyrocketed over the last three months). I’ve been to a few yoga studios so far and every yoga class ends with “the light in me salutes the light in you. Namaste.” And I must confess I kind of wait for the lightning to strike.
But it hasn’t struck and I have to admit yoga class is hard but I feel a sense of accomplishment after I get through.
There have to have been many, many, many, many times where she made a decision that “this is okay, I will stand by and support this.” I’m sorry, I cannot relate at all to a woman who does not fiercely protect her children. Even nature teaches us this.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
Even MacArthur himself doesn’t meet all of those criteria!
Darlene,
Here’s what happened on my last 2 encounters with JWs:
Winter 2005:
I’m getting ready to walk with our dogs down into the woods ….. dogs start barking, so I open the door and let them out. I finish buckling my holster and step out behind the dogs. There’s a van in our driveway with 4 people in it. My dad’s 2000 lb. Charlois breeding bull is on the loose and standing behind the van. The bull see’s his reflection in the back glass of the van and starts pawing and snorting.
So, there we were ….. me with a Ruger strapped to my hip; 3 very large dogs standing between me and the van, and old Charlie (the bull) trying to start a fight with his reflection in the back glass of the van. The driver cracks his door open and says, “Uhm, uh, we’re Jehovah Witnesses.” I reply, “Well, that’s not my bull. Y’all might want to pull on around the driveway and get out of here before some damage is done.”
Yeah. They left. (Must have been divine intervention. I couldn’t have dreamed of better circumstances!!!)
Spring 2006: We’ve moved into our new house across the field. JW’s pull in the drive. Lady gets out, introduces herself, and realizes who I am. She asks if I am so-and-so’s daughter. I say “Yes ma’am, I am.” She says, “There’s no point in talking to you, is there?” I say, “No ma’am. There surely isn’t.” The end.
JWs haven’t visited us since then.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
This Chantry dude sounds like the “Uncle Ted” McCarrick of New Calvinism!
@Nancy2, that is the best story ever.
Whenever JWs come to our door, I hide at the top of the basement stairs and pretend I’m not home. Yeah, just a wuss.
Today Village Church made their big announcement about a sexual assault.
It appears that the adult may have worked at the camp (I know where Mount Lebanon camp is as I used to live on that side of DFW) and not a TVC person.
Here is the link, take the statement for what you believe (or disbelieve) it to be:
https://www.thevillagechurch.net/2012-kids-camp-investigation
Dee/Deb–If you believe this should be its own article, I leave that to your judgment.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Oh Nancy, I got a kick out of those JW stories!!!
Darlene,
Speaking for myself, I am stunned by the things I did not see in my own life. I believe a man (hate to call him that) like Tom does not abuse children and treat his wife well. My guess is that she is in the fog of abuse and doesn’t know how to make sense of life not fitting the paradigm she has been taught. I know that my world view was not able to account for the reality of my actual experiences. If she doesn’t come around in time with him away from her, that makes her complicit. I don’t know how one can have the Holy Spirit and not eventually recognize horrific evil even if you are married to him. I wonder how so many of these wives are coping since their husbands have been exposed. And their kids. I can’t imagine them some day trying make sense of what they were taught vs the reality of what was being done by their father.
Sorry to hear that. Are you diabetic? I didn’t know that. I get a bit obsessive about mine, but I’m Type 1 so I have it relatively easy.
___
501c3 Being Safe : “Notification Of An Proactive 2012 Village Church Kids Camp Investigation?”
hmmm…
Now protecting 501c3 church children from those who ‘serve’ them?
huh?
Matt Chandler and The Village Church board are presently being proactive in communicating to their congregation(s), addressing a difficult 2012 Village Church Kids Camp child public sexual abuse situation that has recently come to light, that they believe their congregants should currently be aware of, based on an pertinent ongoing formal police child sex abuse investigation that is in process and that may impact the 501c3 and the congregants attending their services.
What?
Better to be proactive and safe rather than sorry?
SKREEEEEEEEEETCH!
We all remember what happened last time with this illustrious group, huh?
ATB
Sòpy
—
Notes:
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/the-village-church-why-we-put-wife-of-man-with-paedophile-leanings-under-church-discipline/54687.htm
https://www.thevillagechurch.net/2012-kids-camp-investigation
https://www.tvcresources.net/resource-library/sermons/behold
https://ministrysafe.com
;~)
—
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Why bring politics into this? I think that is a big mistake. Democrats as well as Republicans can equally be “tools of Satan” depending on the circumstances. Do you really think pre-2016 politics was ever any different? Undiscerning folks have been lied to and fooled by every political persuasion down through our country’s history. That will never change as long as people think politics is the ultimate solution.
May you have equal success with the New Calvinists who are moving into your area.
My church camp experiences as a kid (eons ago) are good memories. But turn the clock forward into the 21st century – the world has changed, perversion is at an all time high. I wouldn’t send a child to church camp these days for anything! You simply can’t trust the discernment of church leaders to protect them from pedophiles who are employed or volunteer for camp positions. Heck, you can’t even trust some church leaders – reports continue to come in of pedopiles who masquerade as pastors! Yeah, just spend more time with your children in the summer – take them camping and fishing yourself.
Samuel Conner,
I can tell you what I learned from it as a child: Ask the question “What would dad do in this situation?” and then do the opposite.
Max,
While I agree in general, as I have posted before, my IFB school, in the 1970’s, had a later to be convicted child molester, that spent over 10 years, in CA State prision, and is now on CA Megan’s list. He was led away in hand cuffs from my school (I was in 8 or 9 th grade) … and it was all covered up! Years later, after teaching at other Christian Schools in Sourthern part of the CA, he was convicted of molesting a number of under aged boys…. I have read the court documents for which he pled guilty!
So, my point, nothing new under the son, and pedo perverts were in the church years ago, and the system covered it up just like now !
I guess when you are convicted of a busing children you just get to go home to them while awaiting sentencing?? It might depend on whether his own kids are in his favored age range/gender, or he might not abuse his own. I think this stuff varies from offender to offender.
Will be interested to hear what comes out TVC. They’ve already had one bad public incident, lets see if they handle this one better (if it is as you think and not just building stuff…).
And sometimes spouses who are in this types of situations can’t really face it or are in deep denial until the person has been out of the house for a significant period of time? Maybe when she’s had some time and he’s in jail and the focus isn’t on her, she may change her mind. The point about social support is also true, she probably has little that isn’t tied to him. We don’t know what their relationship is like.
Spiritual Sounding Board has an ongoing thread for women whose husbands have been found out as abusive to children. Reading their stories is both heartbreaking, terrifying (because it is so common), and enlightening. Many are still trying to figure things out after finding out their life has been a lie.
[Goodness, I had a bf who lied to me and it shook me for a good long time and that was a relationship of less than a year.]
Max,
Nothing new under the sun as far as the crimes being committed. I do think that people are more free to bring the allegations and they receive more support when they do come forward. I don’t think that these two items changed much until laws were enacted to protect children and adults who were being abused.
Sòpwith,
Wow. That picture of The Village Church. That’s a church? It looks like a Dillard’s.
I guess I was too naive to know that during my camp experiences in the 1940s-50s. As Charlie Daniels said “The lowest form of animal life on earth is a child molester” … today’s popular grace-grace-grace message doesn’t give anyone a pass on that.
Speaking of laws, there should be no Statute of Limitations on child abuse anywhere on the planet.
Amen.
Max,
Amen…. plus, the Pedo was groming me! What angers me is not him, there will always be perverts around.. But, my IFB was hyper legalistic…. we had break/burn your EVIL rock music record days… which would include even Beach Boys! Yet they COVERED up a pedo….. never tried to determine if he messed with the test of us…..
As we all know pedo’s, especially “religous” pedo, can really screw with young peoples mind…. but hey, they did try to keep the evils of Beach boys music from us!
Max,
That is true..
But hey, my IFB school tried to protect us from the evils of rock music.. we had album breaking/burning “events” which included all those evil records, including such things as Beach Boys, and Glen Campbell.. But, they never asked if any of us had been molested by the pedo… and he was grooming me!! It is really kind of sick when you think of it… when a “religious” pedo messes with kids, that is probably about as bad as it gets.. but my school could NEVER even admit that such things would happen with them.. remember, they have the true pious route…
But, they tried to keep that EVIL music out of us!!!
Wording is so curious, sometimes. Instead of a definitive “No, the accused does not attend/is not part of/is not on the staff/never visits TVC,” the wording was that the accused “does not have access to the children at TVC.” Is that what you call a non-denial denial?
Yep. That makes it seem like he’s not in the building, but he well may be. Everyone should know his face, his name, and where he is now. But it appears that the police often don’t want this information divulged until their investigation is complete . . . which makes the situation very difficult.
Well, they had that one woman’s ex husband attending church after they caught him with the same tendencies towards children. This could be something similar. Perhaps as long as you are not literally working in the childrens area they think it’s cool.
I daresay that most religious schools have a variety of perverted faculty, staff, and students. It’s so easy to hide in plain sight where folks trust you because you are “Christian.”
Max,
It sure seems that way… I was known as being somewhat “cynical”….. but I never would has thought the level of abuse we are all seeing in the Roman Catholic AND Protestant flavors of Christainity….
Typo… “ never would have thought there is the level of abuse we are seeing…”
In this case the offender was not affiliated with TVC but worked for Mount Lebanon, a Baptist camp operated by a different group (the Dallas Baptist Association).
Not to say that TVC is pure as the driven snow in any regard (we’re all familiar with Karen’s story, and lately Chandler seems to dislike law enforcement families attending his church), but in this case they may not be at fault.
How anyone or any church body could construe Glen Campbell’s song Wichita Lineman as being evil is beyond the pale of reason.
Muff Potter,
Unfortunately, I have many, many more examples….but, it is not worth rehashing it all…. They really were not much different than the NT Pharisees…
but, they covered up a pedo, who went on to teach at another Christain schools and then got convicted and sent to CA prison… nothing new under the sun…
___
“Another TVC ‘exoneratIon effort’(tm) in the eyes of public opinion and social media, perhaps?”
hmmm…
Mark,
Hello!
Last time TVC made a BIG announcement like this it was concerning Karen’s story, sure —and it was to ‘exonerate’ themselves.
(We all saw how miserably that went…)
—>This is presently my point. 🙂
The question is why did The Village Church feel the need to make “their big announcement” about an outside counseling discovery, i.e. a sexual assault case that aparrently happened some twelve years ago during one of their scheduled function, apparently reported only recently to the police?
Are they afraid of media diving deeper possibly creating blow-back repocutions?
*
The injustice case you are referring to is presently unknown to me at this time.
ATB
Sòpy
;~)
– –
I believe Nancy’s letter mentioned hope that her children will be brought to faith through all of this? Sounds to me like they have seen through ‘Daddy’, even if she has not.
I do recall that, years ago, when we were in the thick of the ‘spanking’ movement within the church that we were either told or assumed that any claims of abuse were because people opposed the concept of spanking. I do not think that most loving parents can even imagine the kind of ‘spanking’ that Chantry practiced. Perhaps not even his wife.
Maybe off topic a bit, but I’m not sure that I any longer grant a place for spanking in child training; it seems inappropriate in most cases. One does not spank a child for merely being a child. My mother tells stories of the escapades she and her brothers got into on the farm, and is always amazed that she didn’t get spanked for things like burning down the barn. I see her father as being very wise. Lord knows she didn’t set out to burn down the barn, but was playing house and wanted to ‘cook over a fire’ just like Mama. She most likely needed comfort and forgiveness when she saw what her childlike play had wrought. That’s pretty much how I see most childish misdeeds. (I haven’t much patience for some of the tantrum throwers I see in public, but the making of little tyrants begins early on, and the fault lies in the parents. I have a great niece who has discovered that extremely loud screaming in public scares her parents into doing whatever she wants to shut her up. I think a kind but firm insistence on respectful behavior and the withholding of desired rewards will teach a child what is acceptable. It might require parental sacrifice – such as leaving the store or the party a few times – but I don’t think it would take long for the child to learn that shrieking does not pay off. We really did not do much spanking of our five, but I simply cannot imagine my (now grown) children launching into a tantrum. It never crossed their minds, as far as I can recall; we simply discouraged fussing and whining from a very early age and rewarded proper, respectful behavior. It leads to a much happier, pleasant home environment when children are taught the importance of thinking of others early on. And creates fewer narcissists.)
Simple.
It’s not SCRIPTURE(TM).
(D&Der here, from when the Satanic Panic was ramping up…)
Generally you can joinder offenses that have a similar character, so I don’t see why the cases couldn’t be combined in the new trial.