Fellowship Memphis Should Contact Families With Children Who Attended During Peter Newman’s Alleged Tenure

“Lies and secrets, Tessa, they are like a cancer in the soul. They eat away what is good and leave only destruction behind.” ― Cassandra Clare, Clockwork Prince link

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Were any children harmed by Peter Newman at Fellowship Memphis?

Today I had the privilege of speaking with a family whose teenage daughter and mother were allegedly filmed by Rick Trotter at Fellowship Memphis in 2010. I will write more on this and other matters in the coming posts. 

However, as I reviewed my post from yesterday, I became concerned about an issue that I believe needs to be dealt with. As far as one informant knows, the church members and church attendees were not informed of the alleged presence of Peter Newman at the church during much of 2009.

By the time Newman allegedly arrived at the church, he had molested a significant number of boys at Kanakuk. Why would the leadership believe that he was not capable of similar behavior at Fellowship Memphis?

We cannot be sure that such abuse did not happen. Also, due to the leadership's alleged response in the Rick Trotter situation, we cannot even be sure that church leaders would alert the congregation if anything had been reported to them about Peter Newman. In other words, were any children harmed by Newman at Fellowship Memphis?

A mother discovered her child was harmed by Newman at Kanakuk long after it occurred.

The following letter was written by a mother who learned that her son was abused by Peter Newman shortly after Kanakuk decided to alert the families. She thought her son had not been harmed but later discovered the he was molested, long after it happened. Could this be the case at Fellowship Memphis?

I was given permission to repost this letter from kareforvictims.org


AN OPEN LETTER TO JOE WHITE

March 13, 2014

Joe White, President
Kanakuk Kamps
Branson, MO

Mr. White,

I cannot begin the salutation with “dear”.  I do not look upon you dearly.  When I think of you, I feel pain and betrayal. 

We trusted you with our children. We looked up to you. We believed the things you said about camp and specifically, your camps. Over a ten year period, we sent our children to camp. We planned vacations around camp schedules. We worked sports around camp schedules. For years, I was one of you and your camps’ biggest fans. We bought your books. We gave to your ministries. We supported Kanakuk, K-Life, Kids Across America, and you. We believed in your mission. 

It’s been six months since we found out the truth about the real impact your camp has had on one of our children. He was sexually abused at the hands of Pete Newman. Oh, I could (and perhaps will) draft an entirely different letter to Peter Newman. But the things I have to say to him are different than the things I have to say to you. 

When I found out in 2009 that Pete Newman was arrested for child sexual abuse, I was shocked. It took me some time to even accept it. My heart was broken. We read your letter that indicated that he’d been fired and that the camp was assisting in the investigation. I thought my children were unscathed but was still heartbroken for the victims. And I even felt sorry for you. I thought you’d been just as fooled as the rest of us. I probably would have never changed my thinking if I hadn’t learned that, in fact, at least one of my children had been molested by Pete Newman. 

Learning the truth was earth-shattering for us. It’s taken us time to process it and I’m sure it will take us much more time to work through it. We learned that half of our son’s childhood was a lie. He was harboring a secret. He was filled with shame. Half of his childhood!! Just think about how this impacted his adolescence and who he is today. Half of his childhood was stolen from him and from us. Kanakuk was supposed to be a happy place — a safe place. It was supposed to be a place that showed him God’d love. Not a place that showed him perversion. Not a place where his young mind and body were assaulted. 

Since learning the truth, I’ve re-read your “former employee” letter of 9-14-2009 many times. In it, you state that you are working closely with the affected families. Did you really think those were all the affected families? We’ve never had you reach out to us. We’ve never seen you invite other affected families to reach out to you. It leads me to believe that you really don’t care. I understand the business side of things, but your camp is not supposed to be about business. Why haven’t you begged victims to contact you so you can help them? Don’t you realize that these formerly young boys are now becoming men? Don’t you want them to get the help they need so they can have healthy relationships with others and, more importantly, with God? But it seems like you just wanted it all to go away with the sentencing of Pete Newman. 

For the victims, it hasn’t gone away. They need help! They need counseling. I understand that some victims have had significant issues with depression, drugs, anger, and even suicide. Where is your care and concern? The abuse happened under your watch. 

And that leads me to a pressing question for you. Why haven’t you resigned? Why haven’t you taken responsibility and put the camp under different leadership? I no longer believe you were fooled. I believe that, at the very least, you chose to be fooled. You chose to look the other way. There is too much evidence of Pete Newman’s odd proclivities and evidence that you were aware of them. Why don’t you ‘man up’ and step down? I can only believe it is pride and arrogance that stands in the way. I understand what your family has built, but it is a house of cards built on the backs of young boys, at least in the 15 years.  You would gain more respect for accepting responsibility and coming along side the multitudes of victims than you do for pretending it was an aberration in your camp history. Even if it never happened at Kanakuk before Pete Newman (we already know it has happened after him), how can you ignore the victims? In good conscience, how can you accept kudos for the good things done at Kanakuk without accepting responsibility for the horrible damage done to young boys who were molested? How can you not do everything and anything in your power to try to help those boys and their families? 

Before last summer, I always thought of Kanakuk in positive terms. Now my heart twists when I hear that word. Even thinking of Branson causes a clench in the my stomach because every trip we’ve ever made to Branson was in connection with dropping off or picking up kids from camp. For all the good that I ever thought was done for my kids at your camps, I’d gladly have not sent a single child for a single term to avoid the harm that was done to one. Harm that we are still dealing with and that our child is still recovering from. 

Mr. White, are you truly third? 

Sincerely,
A Victim’s Mom


Documentation of Peter Newman living in Memphis during 2009

In an article written by Crime Scene Investigators, UPDATED : Former Kamp Kanakuk Camp Director Charged With Sex Offenses Involving Kidsit was mentioned that Newman was living Memphis. This can be found in the section dealing with the time period of UPDATE 09-25-09. He was allegedly still working for Fellowship Memphis at the time of this posting.

Newman, who now lives in Memphis, turned himself in to authorities on September 15th and waived formal arraignment. He was released from custody after posting $50,000 bond. As part of his bond he can have no contact with children under the age of 17.

Peter Newman was to have NO CONTACT with children under the age of 17.

Were the church attendees notified of this fact? If not, why not? 

If it is true that Peter Newman, documented pedophile, attended and/or was working at Fellowship Memphis during 2009, and this information was not or has not been relayed to the church attendees, then the church is guilty of potentially overlooking possible abuse of children.

Fellowship Memphis MUST Contact Anyone Who Attended the Church With Children in 2009.

Fellowship Memphis is morally and spiritually obligated to notify all families who attended the church in 2009 when there was a alleged attendance  in the church by a documented and now imprisoned pedophile. Those parents and guardians should be advised to make sure their kids were not harmed in any way, especially is there was any contact with Newman. As you read in the letter above, parents are not always aware when their children have been sexually abused. 

Fellowship Memphis needs to do the right thing!!!

Comments

Fellowship Memphis Should Contact Families With Children Who Attended During Peter Newman’s Alleged Tenure — 81 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Absolutely. They need to contact everyone who ever went there with children. They need to go over their records and contact everyone who VISITED that church as well.


  2. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Man, after reading the last few blog posts, is there any wonder more and more people are dropping out of church?


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    True story – I work with a student who attends a charter school that uses a church facility, and I used the church bathroom before I left. It’s an unfamiliar church to me, and kind of a megachurch, and I was kind of uneasy the whole time I was in that bathroom!


  4. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    In good conscience, how can you accept kudos for the good things done at Kanakuk without accepting responsibility for the horrible damage done to young boys who were molested?

    Because the buck doesn’t really stop with Joe White. He wants all of the glory and none of the responsibility.


  5. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    HOW EVIL ARE THESE GUYS AT FELLOWSHIP MEMPHIS?!? Hiring a known (& prolific) child molester (& not alerting the church body)…covering up the videotaping of church attendees by the worship pastor & pastor’s brother-in-law…throwing the video evidence of the recordings by the predator “in the Mississippi River” in order to destroy evidence…passing said sexual predator onto another unsuspecting church body in town (where he did it again!)…instructing victims not to press charges with the police…lying that they ever went to the police…claiming there were NO children involved (while simultaneously & seemingly inexplicably claiming to have contacted Child Protective Services–another lie)…hiring private investigators, PR firms, & lawyers to intimidate and harass victims and whistle-blowers…claims from the lead pastor that he doesn’t know anything about this matter (a ridiculous attempt at CYA!)…it goes on and on and on!

    There needs to be mass resignations and firings over this! They need to be forced to do the right thing. Don’t let this drop! Memphians, tell everyone you know. Make sure this is reprinted and passed along on social media. These awful rats need to be stopped! Non-Memphians, please keep shouting from the mountaintops and valleys–we need to stop this behavior in our churches!


  6. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Great post!

    They absolutely should do this.


  7. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ TheCassandra:

    Love your name!!

    I don’t know what it will take for these men to start having sense. I think their entire philosophy on what they are meant to do as supposed ‘leaders’ is wrong. They fail every test.

    Is it only that they see adult men or maybe just pastors as real people, worthy of protection? Because I can think of nothing else that explains this type of error consistently.


  8. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ TheCassandra:
    Who will fire them? It is a top down authoritarian church. If no one came to church and no one gave one penny they would have to quit. :o)


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Elizabeth Lee wrote:

    Absolutely. They need to contact everyone who ever went there with children. They need to go over their records and contact everyone who VISITED that church as well.

    But the results might NOT be what Pastor Wants To Hear.


  10. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ TheCassandra:
    Remember something about the original Cassandra:

    She was cursed that all of her prophecies and warnings would be Absolutely True, but that NOBODY would ever believe her.


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

    In good conscience, how can you accept kudos for the good things done at Kanakuk without accepting responsibility for the horrible damage done to young boys who were molested?

    Because the buck doesn’t really stop with Joe White. He wants all of the glory and none of the responsibility.

    Over 30 years ago< I read a tongue-in-cheek editorial in a business magazine about Business Organization — how the goal is to Maximize Power, Authority, and Glory and Minimize Responsibility, and that the ideal organization would have Infinite Power/Authority/Glory and ZERO Responsibility, especially for the CEO and Board.


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    At this point, I’m numb to this kind of thing. I’m shocked when a church learns about a sexual abuse problem and actually deals with it appropriately. Sweeping it under the rug? That’s the standard operating procedure. No surprise at all. I don’t even know what the solution is- I have known leaders in churches in my past who I sincerely believe were good, moral people in general, yet I also am quite confident that if they had knowledge of sexual abuse in their church they would have covered it up. How do you reconcile that?
    I’m a Christian and I believe that the Church (universal) can change for the better, but the fact that I’m so used to this is really depressing.


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lydia wrote:

    Who will fire them? It is a top down authoritarian church. If no one came to church and no one gave one penny they would have to quit. :o)

    They would start a new operation in another part of the country like Scottsdale Arizona, oh wait that one is already taken.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    What are the chances they will do this?


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ siteseer:
    Slim to none but we may need to get local media involved-a job for me tomorrow.


  16. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Nice post about what they should do. And while we’re making wishes, I’d like a rainbow unicorn, please.


  17. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @elizabeth lee
    I completely agree! I’m telling everyone I know in Memphis!


  18. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The parents of every child that attended church during the time in question needs to take a closer look at their children for any signs of PTSD and typical behaviors of trauma survivors because it’s especially hard for boys to admit trauma. Potential survivors 1st need to know that he is incarcerated.
    The predators are SICK cockroaches, no doubt. Bystanders are just as guilty, if not more, in my opinion.


  19. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    It seems like the bigger a church gets, the more likely they are statistically to get at least one pedophile showing up. I’m already against megachurches/multisites in principle, for a variety of reasons; this just gives me one more. Yes, I know this can happen in smaller churches as well, and every one of them need to learn vigilance. In really big churches, it’s too easy to hide, or become popular on the staff with a LOT of the members.


  20. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ Jack:

    Well, there’s that nice one advertising the Squatty Potty. 😀


  21. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Edward wrote:

    At this point, I’m numb to this kind of thing. I’m shocked when a church learns about a sexual abuse problem and actually deals with it appropriately. Sweeping it under the rug? That’s the standard operating procedure. No surprise at all. I don’t even know what the solution is- I have known leaders in churches in my past who I sincerely believe were good, moral people in general, yet I also am quite confident that if they had knowledge of sexual abuse in their church they would have covered it up. How do you reconcile that?
    I’m a Christian and I believe that the Church (universal) can change for the better, but the fact that I’m so used to this is really depressing.

    +100


  22. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    NJ wrote:

    In really big churches, it’s too easy to hide, or become popular on the staff with a LOT of the members.

    I’m honestly not sure about this. I think small churches may make it easy to get to know everyone and not feel like strangers. I haven’t seen any good stats.

    It’s probably easier for large churches to hire someone who is actively waiting on trial and not have the whole church know though. I would assume in small churches the gossip train these guys hate would keep everyone better informed.


  23. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Just a short off-topic note. It’s been more than a week since Shauna and Billy’s GoFundMe account has had any donations. (Dee set up the GoFundMe account for them.) Billy is set for school supplies. He just started high school.

    They have a need right now for food, gas, car insurance, and some basic bills. If anyone has the means to contribute that would be appreciated right now.

    Thank you.

    Regards,

    Velour

    As always, other discussions on the Open Discussion thread.

    ********************
    Just an update and hopefully this doesn’t get overshadowed or lost in the mix : )I just told the place where I take care of the horses that I need to step back from feeding. Last night I got home at 9:30pm billy needed me here and needed help with his school work. I have offered to stay on and feed once a day although I will really be working for pennies because it’s 1 1/2 hours of physical work and I have to travel 16 miles round trip while getting 8.25 an hour. In a weeks time before taxes I will have earned 86.59 after seven days of feeding 2xs s day. After taxes it drops to about 68.00. After gas which will be about thirty bucks a week, so I will have made 38.00 take home, wow it puts it into perspective for me i’m making about .27 cents an hour take home after taxes and gas.
    So, regular monthly bills are coming due this week I have a job interview this week and will be doing clerical testing tomorrow so I can apply for county jobs. Please pray for this because there are some really good job openings which I think would work great with my son’s schedule and pay a really decent wage.
    https://www.gofundme.com/pxs5dk
    we are in need of groceries and I will need to get some decent work clothes for interviews and if i’m hired on. I can use what I have and borrowed some clothes. I haven’t bought anything for years.
    Rent/water/utilities are coming due. The electric bill is almost 300 this month due to the heat/humidity thank goodness it’s finally lowering in temp.
    I need to do car insurance again and won’t be able to drive after this week if I don’t make that payment.
    we have our phone bill which is 125 for both phones plus pays for internet( I paid a little extra last month) as well. I use my phone to plug into internet on the desk top, it saves money.
    Billy is good on clothes and I almost have all his supplies.
    https://www.gofundme.com/pxs5dk


  24. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    @ Lea:
    Unlike secular sports teams, schools, etc. Churches ( especially authoritarian/ complementarian ones) imply that they are acting on God’s behalf. Pastors set themselves up in this hierarchy as ‘you must go through me to get to God’. It’s very feudal. To true believers, this is powerful stuff. Especially when the church contains your entire world.
    This is why battling abuse here is so difficult.
    If you must go to church, frame it in a healthy light. Church should be a part of your world, not your entire world.
    If it feels wrong, maybe God’s telling you that you don’t need to be there.


  25. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jack wrote:

    To true believers, this is powerful stuff. Especially when the church contains your entire world.

    The thing is, I’ve never been a true believer in ‘church’. God sure. Church? Run by men. Fallible. Too much early exposure to the behind the scenes stuff I guess.


  26. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    This SO reminds me of the Penn State scandal, and all the cover up from leadership. Very wicked..what a broken world!


  27. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    In today’s American, it is all about the “Brand”…. protect the Brand at all costs… no mater who gets run over…

    Divorce Minister wrote:

    This SO reminds me of the Penn State scandal, and all the cover up from leadership. Very wicked..what a broken world!


  28. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jeffrey Chalmers wrote:

    In today’s American, it is all about the “Brand”…. protect the Brand at all costs… no mater who gets run over…

    The Church has become very secular in regards to this. The Church is not a beacon on the hill when it comes to standing up for people against evil. It has actually become a place for evil to hide.


  29. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lydia wrote:

    @ TheCassandra:
    Who will fire them? It is a top down authoritarian church. If no one came to church and no one gave one penny they would have to quit. :o)

    If they actually were involved in the destruction of evidence of a crime, that’s a serious crime itself, and should investigators pursue this matter and a DA prosecute, top down authoritarian or not, de facto demigods within their neocalvinist bubble or not, the criminal justice system would effectively fire them.


  30. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Law Prof wrote:

    If they actually were involved in the destruction of evidence of a crime, that’s a serious crime itself

    Yeah…I really want to hear more about that. Because that’s really a problem. And a crime.


  31. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Law Prof wrote:

    If they actually were involved in the destruction of evidence of a crime, that’s a serious crime itself, and should investigators pursue this matter and a DA prosecute, top down authoritarian or not, de facto demigods within their neocalvinist bubble or not, the criminal justice system would effectively fire them.

    I certainly hope so.

    In the article about the woman who was excommunicated from 2 Presb., I noticed that the elder who was to lead the commission that would do the excommunication is also a secular judge in the community. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/second-presbyterian-church-member-faced-with-excommunication-quits-ep-386667697-329476231.html

    The five-member commission organized to hear her case would have been presided over by Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft, who is a church member.

    The church members also cried foul to the news media for even covering that case. http://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2012/02/when-gossip-makes-the-front-page

    In a tart e-mail, Cory Hale, a lifelong subscriber to the newspaper and a member of Second Presbyterian, noted that all kinds of organizations face conflict. Sometimes that conflict simply cannot be resolved and a forced separation must occur, he said. ”Shame on The Commercial Appeal for sensationalizing the ordinary with a front-page story and giving your readership the impression that this is somehow extraordinary, even scandalous, just because it happened in a church – my church.”

    These articles were from 2012, when Nan Hawkes was forced out of that church. I am just wondering where the press will stand on covering this situation (admittedly, it is a criminal case as opposed to a church discipline case), whether there are any conflicts of interest in law enforcement or the judiciary, and whether the members of the church will circle the wagons and cover up for their leaders. And also whether the public image/law firm the church hired, Caissa, will resort to underhanded tactics to keep the case quiet.

    Thanks for drawing attention to this situation, Deebs. There is no way these cases will be resolved without the light of day shining on them. It takes tremendous courage to be a lightning rod in such a case as this. I pray for you daily.


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    siteseer wrote:

    In the article about the woman who was excommunicated from 2 Presb., I noticed that the elder who was to lead the commission that would do the excommunication is also a secular judge in the community. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/second-presbyterian-church-member-faced-with-excommunication-quits-ep-386667697-329476231.html
    The five-member commission organized to hear her case would have been presided over by Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft, who is a church member.
    The church members also cried foul to the news media for even covering that case. http://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2012/02/when-gossip-makes-the-front-page
    In a tart e-mail, Cory Hale, a lifelong subscriber to the newspaper and a member of Second Presbyterian, noted that all kinds of organizations face conflict. Sometimes that conflict simply cannot be resolved and a forced separation must occur, he said. ”Shame on The Commercial Appeal for sensationalizing the ordinary with a front-page story and giving your readership the impression that this is somehow extraordinary, even scandalous, just because it happened in a church – my church.”

    That is scary. A judge on the disciplinary case in a church! I wonder if this judge was aware of the sexual predator in their midst.


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    @ Jack:

    Excellent observation Jack. The only thing I would add is that in my opinion, these various strains of fundagelicalism are all fear-based religions which makes it doubly hard for their adherents to come forward with accounts of their children being sexually abused in an atmosphere of complete trust. Fear that if you dare and come forward, you’re not really ‘saved’ the way they taught you to be ‘saved’.


  34. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Who cares about sexual preditors when you have to keep women in their place… I mean come on get your prorities straight!!! Plus, if he is only praying on women or little boys, not that big of a deal!

    Bridget wrote:

    siteseer wrote:

    In the article about the woman who was excommunicated from 2 Presb., I noticed that the elder who was to lead the commission that would do the excommunication is also a secular judge in the community. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/second-presbyterian-church-member-faced-with-excommunication-quits-ep-386667697-329476231.html
    The five-member commission organized to hear her case would have been presided over by Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft, who is a church member.
    The church members also cried foul to the news media for even covering that case. http://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2012/02/when-gossip-makes-the-front-page
    In a tart e-mail, Cory Hale, a lifelong subscriber to the newspaper and a member of Second Presbyterian, noted that all kinds of organizations face conflict. Sometimes that conflict simply cannot be resolved and a forced separation must occur, he said. ”Shame on The Commercial Appeal for sensationalizing the ordinary with a front-page story and giving your readership the impression that this is somehow extraordinary, even scandalous, just because it happened in a church – my church.”

    That is scary. A judge on the disciplinary case in a church! I wonder if this judge was aware of the sexual predator in their midst.


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    @ Jack:

    “If you must go to church, frame it in a healthy light. Church should be a part of your world, not your entire world.

    If it feels wrong, maybe God’s telling you that you don’t need to be there.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    if it feels wrong, don’t overanalyze the ratio of God’s voice to your inner voice. Take stock in your sense of intuition — a God-given survival instinct.

    yes, totally agree on church being a part of your life, not your entire world. i think i’ll write a song about it….


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    @ Bridget:

    “The Church is not a beacon on the hill when it comes to standing up for people against evil. It has actually become a place for evil to hide.”
    ++++++++++++++

    just like so many businesses that come to mind.

    they are following a business model. Church is a business. Company men, they be. Company being the institution.


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    I know a pastor that fancied himself a “CEO” if was in the business world.. he actually talked openly about it!!

    elastigirl wrote:

    @ Bridget:
    “The Church is not a beacon on the hill when it comes to standing up for people against evil. It has actually become a place for evil to hide.”
    ++++++++++++++
    just like so many businesses that come to mind.
    they are following a business model. Church is a business. Company men, they be. Company being the institution.


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    @ Lea:
    Probably should have put “true believers” in quotes. The context is folks who have been conditioned to believe that church/pastor = God.


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    @ elastigirl:
    As someone who is currently NFR ( no fixed religion), I couldn’t agree more. Inner voice, God or Jiminy Cricket, you do well to heed it.


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    @ Bridget:
    Oh you should read about the corrupt judges in the boondoggle that has become family court across this country. I have witnessed it as an advocate. Can’t afford a lawyer? You are toast. It is big money for retired judges as mediators, etc, you name it. Think Tony Jones and Julie McMahon. The Tony’s win a lot. The bottom line is that justice is for sale in too many cities.


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    Lydia wrote:

    @ TheCassandra:
    Who will fire them? It is a top down authoritarian church. If no one came to church and no one gave one penny they would have to quit. :o)

    +100


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    Jeffrey Chalmers wrote:

    I know a pastor that fancied himself a “CEO” if was in the business world.. he actually talked openly about it!!

    I should not be surprised by now but it still amazes me how stories here such as yours parallels my experience. In my case the guy even said he wanted to be pastor of a big church and didn’t see himself in the role of ministering to individuals. Did the guy there setup a gofundme for his trip to Israel because the church budget was deeply in the red?


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    Jack wrote:

    @ Lea:
    Probably should have put “true believers” in quotes. The context is folks who have been conditioned to believe that church/pastor = God.

    No I get that. I just wanted to say that I have a really hard time understanding the worship pastors mentality, just because of stuff growing up. But a friend with a similar background is always talking about how awesome her pastor is so maybe it’s just me.


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    My heart goes out to the boy and his family along with the rest. Her letter touched me and I know her pain.


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    Velour wrote:

    Lydia wrote:

    @ TheCassandra:
    Who will fire them? It is a top down authoritarian church. If no one came to church and no one gave one penny they would have to quit. :o)

    +100

    When there is a moral imperative to call out that top authority for enabling abuse;
    then anyone who feels they have the weight of that imperative on their souls needs to speak out, in whatever way they can, with whatever gifts God has given them ….

    that ‘imperative’? it’s when a person can know longer be silent and live with their own conscience

    and that’s a good day, people

    one by one by one by one …. then the ‘Voice’ of conscience in the darkness gets louder and louder, and soon no one can shut it up, and no one can fail to hear it


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    I am a very late night person, late in the night when the pain might come I found the Worship Network helpful and great encouragement. I wish I could do more for those hurting and who have been hurt. Here is a link. https://youtu.be/4y1AAk62z-M


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    Christiane wrote:

    When there is a moral imperative to call out that top authority for enabling abuse;
    then anyone who feels they have the weight of that imperative on their souls needs to speak out, in whatever way they can, with whatever gifts God has given them …

    I just started to blog about my ex-church. The NeoCalvinist/9Marxist/Authoritarian/Abusive one.
    https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/


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    Velour wrote:

    I just started to blog about my ex-church. The NeoCalvinist/9Marxist/Authoritarian/Abusive one.
    https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/

    Great! I’ll come by and visit. Proud of you.


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    I Have a Verse
    by Uncle Dad

    They argued with me long and loud.
    They told me I was being proud.
    The debate went from bad to worse.
    I know I’m right. I have a verse.

    I told him that his hair’s too long.
    He scoffed and told me I was wrong.
    I said her short hair is a curse.
    I know I’m right. I have a verse.

    I told them they must give a tenth
    Of all their money before it’s spent.
    A tithe of wallet, bank and purse.
    I know I’m right. I have a verse.

    I told them Rock and Roll’s a sin.
    A noise that’s straight from Satan’s den.
    They laughed until I thought they’d burst.
    I know I’m right. I have a verse.

    I told her she cannot divorce.
    You said, “I do,” so stay the course.
    Forget the doctor and the nurse.
    I know I’m right. I have a verse.

    Jesus said those from above
    Will be known by how they love.
    Apologizing really hurts.
    I thought I was right. I had a verse.


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    http://www.ashleyeaster.com/courage

    I hope it is ok to share this here. There is an important conference coming up in Lynchburg, VA Oct 28 and 29. It is called the Courage Conference. This was shared on my Facebook page. As a survivor I feel very strongly that we need to change the culture that allows children to be raped or molested in the church. The cost is $40 until Sept 30 and $50 after that. This is so survivors can afford to go. Boz Tchividjian will be one of the speakers. Please pray and spread the word. Also, conferences like this are not cheap to put on so they are looking for sponsors to help pay the cost they are not charging attendees.


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    @ Uncle Dad:
    Excellent! So thought-provoking.


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    Unfortunately, what you write is so true, in to many cases to count, based on my life experiences…

    @ Uncle Dad:


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    I am surprised so many people are surprised that organizations that copy the Catholic power structure are having similar results. Bestowing infallibility on the fallible is very dangerous. Not saying it is all or even most pastors just like it is not all or most priests. Some can humbly handle the responsibilities. However the social math is what it is and this structure applied in large enough numbers will lead to abuse.

    Don’t believe that they are Catholic in structure? Consider:

    Many pastors see themselves as CEOs and in effect their own pope/bishop. In many cases people in the pews are actually worshiping the pastor and hold their pastor up as beyond repute. A distinction the pastor does not deflect at minimum and embraces at max.

    The pastor self appoints the elders as his college of cardinals. It is actually much easier for the pastor to pressure/force out the cardinals from the previous pastor. Pope can’t do that.

    They put all the actual people pastoring duties on the Campus Pastor aka Parish Priest. Only difference is the bishops did not have the technology at the time to broadcast themselves to the various parishes/campuses. If they had, a parish priest would not deliver a homily. As it stands tradition is in their way now.

    Finally the church staff serves as the Vatican Curia making sure the pope/bishop is safely protected from the people, enforcing the infallible doctrine to the most minute detail allowing no dissension of any kind. They must protect the brand at all costs.

    The Catholic Church is a multi-tiered multicampus operation. They did not get there by accident. I am sure some of it was well intentioned. Problem is when you get so big, power structures are required to maintain control. They get big enough the people take their eyes off God and worry about the earthly power they have built, feel the need to hide bad news. Of course a little lie becomes a big one and bad things happen.

    Looks like many of the money making conference are becoming that next control tier as the evangelical bishops play their power games.

    I am making no comment on the theology of Catholics vs Protestant. Just pointing out the latter is following the former in structure as they lust for more earthly power. Abuse results are similar.


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    @ Uncle Dad:

    Excellent! Thank you!


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    Ken wrote:

    Problem is when you get so big, power structures are required to maintain control.

    True. I think size is a factor here, but i don’t see any reason this had to be in a 2000 person church. Structure, sure, but I wonder if the para church organizations are causing individual churches to act like large networks (i.e. Catholic Church to use your example).

    But the need to maintain control? That should not be necessary. That is a problem in and of itself. It is being pushed and promoted from people like 9 marxs, to where it effects even what should be little mostly unaffiliated churches.


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    @ Ken:

    Ken, and don’t forget they are redefining salvation as being the property of the church- the church having the ability to dispense it and remove it (excommunication).


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    Uncle Dad wrote:

    Apologizing really hurts.
    I thought I was right. I had a verse.

    Wow. Wonderful poem.

    I’d like to post it on my blog and credit you.


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    Uncle Dad wrote:

    I Have a Verse
    by Uncle Dad

    I love this. The pitfalls of proof-texting.


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    Linda Hug wrote:

    http://www.ashleyeaster.com/courage
    I hope it is ok to share this here. There is an important conference coming up in Lynchburg, VA Oct 28 and 29. It is called the Courage Conference. This was shared on my Facebook page. As a survivor I feel very strongly that we need to change the culture that allows children to be raped or molested in the church. The cost is $40 until Sept 30 and $50 after that. This is so survivors can afford to go. Boz Tchividjian will be one of the speakers. Please pray and spread the word. Also, conferences like this are not cheap to put on so they are looking for sponsors to help pay the cost they are not charging attendees.

    Yes, it’s wonderful. I tweeted about it last night.We need to get the word out!


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    @ Linda Hug:

    Thanks for sharing! Will pass on this Courage Conference info’–especially to those I know in Central and Western Virginia!


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    @ Linda Hug:

    Excellent!


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    SOS Comp Attack Alert

    Sorry to interrupt folks, but get a load of “George” and his attack on Ruth Tucker over at Jesus Creed. I’d respond to dear George, bless his heart, but it’s hard on my phone. Sick ’em!

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2016/09/01/a-question-for-complementarians-from-ruth-tucker/


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    Patriciamc wrote:

    SOS Comp Attack Alert

    I think this should be our batsignal. It needs a logo.


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    Patriciamc wrote:

    SOS Comp Attack Alert
    Sorry to interrupt folks, but get a load of “George” and his attack on Ruth Tucker over at Jesus Creed. I’d respond to dear George, bless his heart, but it’s hard on my phone. Sick ’em!
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2016/09/01/a-question-for-complementarians-from-ruth-tucker/

    I just posted some comments over there under “Mica”.


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    @ Velour:

    Jeff Y had an excellent response to George!


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    Bridget wrote:

    @ Velour:
    Jeff Y had an excellent response to George!

    Good!


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    Bridget wrote:

    @ Velour:
    Jeff Y had an excellent response to George!

    I just voted Jeff Y’s comment “up”.


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    Velour wrote:

    I just voted Jeff Y’s comment “

    Just read the comments – go Jeff Y!


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    @ Uncle Dad:
    Your poem needs to be copied and tacked to the doors of many churches and seminaries!


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    Nancy2 wrote:

    @ Uncle Dad:
    Your poem needs to be copied and tacked to the doors of many churches and seminaries!

    Come this Sunday, it will be tacked to my new blog as a post and it will automatically go on Twitter. I am on Twitter @mtnshepherdess if you are on Twitter.

    My new blog about my former NeoCalvinist church: https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/


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    Wartburgers,

    Please continue to pray for Former CLCer who had eye surgery today. Pray for assistance (rides, help,comfort, healing, etc.). Pray for the follow-up appt to check the eye.

    Many thanks!


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    Velour wrote:

    My new blog about my former NeoCalvinist church: https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/

    I visited yesterday! Drive away those wolves, Shepherdess. They can gripe, and whine, and tell lies, but they can’t stop you. May your blog be read all over the world!


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    Nancy2 wrote:

    Velour wrote:
    My new blog about my former NeoCalvinist church: https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/
    I visited yesterday! Drive away those wolves, Shepherdess. They can gripe, and whine, and tell lies, but they can’t stop you. May your blog be read all over the world!

    Nancy2, You rock!

    I may just start the online store after all!


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    Lea wrote:

    Patriciamc wrote:
    SOS Comp Attack Alert
    I think this should be our batsignal. It needs a logo.

    It does… Hmmm


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    Nancy2 wrote:

    @ Uncle Dad:
    Your poem needs to be copied and tacked to the doors of many churches and seminaries!

    I just posted his poem on my blog and didn’t wait until Sunday.
    https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/2016/09/03/poem-i-have-a-verse-by-wayne-harmon/

    I also posted the Paulette Jiles poem “Paper Matches” which I saw a couple of decades ago while riding a bus in the San Francisco Bay Area. It is the only poem I have ever memorized while riding. It went right to my heart, to my bone marrow. And it stayed.
    https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/2016/09/03/poem-paper-matches-by-paulette-jiles/

    Both poems are also on my Twitter and Facebook.


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    Velour wrote:

    Wartburgers,

    Please continue to pray for Former CLCer who had eye surgery today. Pray for assistance (rides, help,comfort, healing, etc.). Pray for the follow-up appt to check the eye.

    Many thanks!

    YES! Will do.


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    Christiane wrote:

    Velour wrote:
    Wartburgers,
    Please continue to pray for Former CLCer who had eye surgery today. Pray for assistance (rides, help,comfort, healing, etc.). Pray for the follow-up appt to check the eye.
    Many thanks!
    YES! Will do.

    Thank you! Merci.


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    K.D. wrote:

    Man, after reading the last few blog posts, is there any wonder more and more people are dropping out of church?

    Nope. None at all.


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    Commenting before reading top-down: Thank you for sharing that letter. It was so powerful—and heartbreaking.