For the Continuing Naghmeh Doubters: Yes, Saeed Really Did Plead Guilty — 204 Comments
Thanks Brad! Your research skills are impeccable!
Thanks, Deb. And thanks go out to XianJaneway, who posted a comment on Spiritual Sounding Board with some additional information that the Idaho Statesman newspaper reported on the case. That got me right to the case via the online Idaho Court Repository. And I’m thankful for the news reporting by John Sowell at the Statesman. He’s provided us with important details that help us all with doing our due diligence.
A jury trial? That would be unusual in my neck of the woods for domestic violence. Wow.
Is there some way that can be enlarged? I would like to link it to some of those newspapers where, in the comments, some people claim Naghmeh is lying about the domestic abuse charge.
Domestic abuse = $75.50 fine + 90 days suspended jail sentence + 12 month probation?!
Is there some way that can be enlarged? I would like to link it to some of those newspapers where, in the comments, some people claim Naghmeh is lying about the domestic abuse charge.
They’d only then claim that the liberal court system is in ‘sin’, that they ‘don’t know the lord’, and that they care nothing for the ‘word of god’.
He didn’t address the abuse, but I didn’t see anything in his statement saying he never abused her. His exact words were, “Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.”
I think he may be playing with words and not fessing up. I’m concerned that we be accurate in our statements and not play with words as well, because we don’t want the truth discredited in any way. That can create a whole ‘nother set of problems.
They’d only then claim that the liberal court system is in ‘sin’, that they ‘don’t know the lord’, and that they care nothing for the ‘word of god’.
I’m watching and waiting. Someone is going to pop up on here and trot out a couple of ponies named “Forgery” and “Conspiracy”.
Stay strong, Naghmeh.
A question from Gary W came up on a thread at Spiritual Sounding Board, asking how the relevant statute would have read in 2007 when the case was current. Here’s a link to my response from what I’ve been able to put together so far. I’ll also cut and paste the relevant material shortly in a separate comment on this thread.
There are all kinds of subjects Dee and Deb post, it is interesting that abuse of an individual brings out the oddball first time commenters as no other subject does. Mind you this is not from a thorough survey, just my general reaction. Interesting in this case the silencing commenters came in quickly, often they are latecomers that drop in when the thread is almost stale.
For those doing research, here is additional information. This doesn’t give us all the details of how the relevant statute read in 2007/2008 when the case was filed and the final disposition noted, but these specifics should help clarify the questions for searching to find those answers.
START WITH THE SCREENSHOT
Working from the screenshot of the 2007 domestic assault court case as posted on The Wartburg Watch at …
… confirms that section 18-918(3)(a) is the relevant statute.
NOTE: One trick for seeing a larger version of the image is to press [CTRL] and the [ =/+ ] key simultaneously. To reduce the image, press [CTRL] and the [ -/_ ] key simultaneously.
IDAHO STATUTE 18-918(3)(a) AND (3)(c) – PUNISHMENTS FOR “ASSAULT AND BATTERY”
Then, go to the Idaho state code for that statute at …
(3)(a) A household member who commits an assault, as defined in section 18-901, Idaho Code, against another household member which does not result in traumatic injury is guilty of a misdemeanor domestic assault.
At the bottom of the page, the “History” footnotes show that the last amendment to this section of statutes was made in 2009, and before that, in 2005. [We’d have to track the legislative records to find what specifically changed in 2009 to figure out what was current in 2007/2008 when the case was active.] Click on the link at the bottom of the page for “How current is this law?” and we find that the version listed is current as of the 2015 legislative session, and that the website is updated July 1st after the sessions.
See also section 18-913(3)(c) for what is current about a second conviction within 10 years of the first, whether it was pleading guilty or found guilty. (NOTE: I split this into three paragraphs to make it easier to read. The first one is for first conviction, the second for a second conviction within 10 years, the three paragraph is for three convictions within 15 years.)
(c) A first conviction under this subsection (3) is punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six (6) months, or both.
Any person who pleads guilty to or is found guilty of a violation of this subsection (3) who previously has pled guilty to or been found guilty of a violation of this subsection (3), or of any substantially conforming foreign criminal violation, notwithstanding the form of the judgment or withheld judgment, within ten (10) years of the first conviction, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a term not to exceed one (1) year or by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000) or by both fine and imprisonment.
Any person who pleads guilty to or is found guilty of a violation of this subsection (3) who previously has pled guilty to or been found guilty of two (2) violations of this subsection (3), or of any substantially conforming foreign criminal violation or any combination thereof, notwithstanding the form of the judgment or withheld judgment, within fifteen (15) years of the first conviction, shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a term not to exceed five (5) years or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) or by both fine and imprisonment.
IDAHO STATUTE 18-901 – DEFINITIONS OF “ASSAULT AND BATTERY”
Statute 18-913(3)(a) referred to the definition of “assault” being in section 18-901. The link to that statute, and the content, is as follows:
(a) An unlawful attempt, coupled with apparent ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another; or
(b) An intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
According to the History section on that statute, these definitions were added to the Idaho state code in 1979, and no amendments have since been noted.
“Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.”
This really bothers me as a fellow pastor. Doubly so by how the he is being held up publicly by prominent evangelical pastor(s).
Saeed PLEAD GUILTY to domestic assault! Even if that was truly all in the past, a truly repentant abuser would recognize that such a history DOES create fear in his abuse victim. Why not cut his wife some more slack? (Unless he is unwilling to fully own his own sin?)
Essentially, he is calling his wife a liar publicly while the court records are–obviously–readily available to expose the truth otherwise. Ick. Sounds like the dude has a long way to go.
Can anyone make out a date on that court document?
I just want to remind y’all that Saeed pled guilty in 2007 and was ordained in 2008. Whether this case was sealed or not, Saeed should have been up front and honest about it on his application for ordination. If he did tell the truth on the application, this does not speak well for the AEA.
This needs to be looked into. I will try to do some leg work on this tomorrow.
Dee I just wanted to say thanks for what is done here concerning these issues. When all this gets sorted out I have a suggestion, there is a theology out there that says that we all basically have all things happen to us coming. I E God is so angry at us that He has every right to ordain things like the Holocaust, abuse, child abuse, suicide, the death of a child etc that we have it coming. We are inanimate objects (pots) and God is the Potter and can make broken pots or vessels of wrath and we all need to just suck it up. The real issue is that this is usually applied to women, children, and others, not in the professional class. If one is in the professional class of the apologetic then we need to not question their decisions, they are not accountable touch not God’s anointing or they are preaching the “gospel”.
This may make me a heretic but I cant imagine any true and loving all powerful Father setting His kids up for some horrid evil just to make a point or to prove some greater good. I appreciate all that is done I do hope the things in your family go well, I was in that boat for over twenty years.
Can anyone make out a date on that court document?
I just want to remind y’all that Saeed pled guilty in 2007 and was ordained in 2008. Whether this case was sealed or not, Saeed should have been up front and honest about it on his application for ordination. If he did tell the truth on the application, this does not speak well for the AEA.
You are right, Nancy2. I can say that as a public school teacher, had this DV pleas shown up on a Criminal Background Check, I would not have been hired in the district. And that would go for anyone else applying for a job in that school district. Could it possibly be that the *world* has higher standards than the Evangelical church?
“This may make me a heretic but I cant imagine any true and loving all powerful Father setting His kids up for some horrid evil just to make a point or to prove some greater good”
+++++++++++++++++++
the concept of heretic is like the concept of driving a car. everyone slower than us is a moron. everyone faster than us is a maniac. the only decent drivers are those driving exactly like us.
we all are heretics to a variety of people. and who gives a flying fick.
are you kind? honest? give some kind of nod to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit? I really don’t think God is fussy.
the concept of heretic is like the concept of driving a car. everyone slower than us is a moron. everyone faster than us is a maniac. the only decent drivers are those driving exactly like us.
Not to get off topic, but excellent comment. I’ll remember this the next time I’m on the road.
I was just saying on Julie Anne’s new post about this story a few moments ago that these stories about domestic violence by a husband against a wife sure does bring out the misogynist looney tunes and the sexist, Bible quoting crack pots.
Julie Anne’s recent post on the matter attracted a few different, very hostile guys who clearly have issues with women. And these guys are claiming to be Christians, and they are quoting the Bible left and right.
There is most definitely a problem in Christendom with sexism.
Whether these guys are ‘real’ Christians or not can be debated, I guess, but they sure as heck think they are real Christians and anyone who believes accusations of abuse by a wife against her husband automatically is a godless feminist who hates all men.
Several days ago I commented that the “friend” who released Naghmeh’s private messages had betrayed her. Note, the leaker apparently kept their own identity anonymous. Even if the person who leaked the emails was not motivated by the rush of relaying salacious details, but felt they were trying to help, they were not a friend in my estimation.
This makes me wonder how to proceed if I found myself with a similar revelation from a friend or associate. If they were continuing to be abused and were unwilling/unable to deal with it, respecting their wishes and not doing anything seems to fall well short. If they tell someone of their plight are they not searching for help, and not just “pray for me” help?
I posted this before and this man would be considered a bit liberal because he did not include color / race in there as I had learned. Not too much from the pulpit but it was very clear. We are utterly totally worthless and vile to God and He is just so angry and wrathful even after Jesus died it really was not enough for almost all of humanity. Now, of course, I don’t believe this anymore in my head but in my heart and my emotions, it is a constant war I must admit. You know when I first became a Christian there was this wonder and joy that just flowed out of my heart it was like an exciting adventure filled with great expectations. Well, I have repented of all that nonsense but I do miss it that new “feeling” of actually being loved by God. Now it’s more like stay anonymous and autonomous.
I’m currently reading Os Guinness’ latest book “Fool’s Talk: Revealing the Art of Christian Persuasion” and I came across this passage that is relevant, imo, to the case.
“Whatever we do and have done, whether right or wrong, is a matter of record and reality. Responsibly owning up to it therefore aligns us to reality and to truth in a way that liberates. And far from being weak or an act of surrender, confession is the expression of rare moral courage, for in confessing a person demonstrates the strength of character to go on record against himself or herself. Again the result of free confession is freedom”.
(Location 3516-3518 Kindle page 206)
How different that is from the hiding away, the prepared statement, the deflection of truth, the insinuation of the other party’s guilt and lack of personal accountability and responsibility.
As Guinness goes on to say a few pages later “As Christians we stand or fall, prosper or decline, by truth”.
More like months. I would love to know what month he was ordained. I can only find the year.
Yes! Me, too. And, I’ll almost bet the AEA isn’t talking. I googled their president, Kerry L. Fink. About all I can find out about him is that he is a media exec. with 20 yrs. experience and he has an MBA – nothing about any training in Bible studies, counciling, or mission work.
Did anyone else notice that on the same AEA page listing these requirements is an article about Pastor Abedini … and just across the page these words “Background checks are made on all candidates …” ?!
Max, yes I noticed that, and under the Code of Conduct did you see in a section called Personal:
Personal
The minister shall realize that in the eyes of the world he is the ideal and representative of Christianity and that Christianity is judged by his action and conduct. His personal life must befit such responsibility.
Sounds very much like Grudem, BHLH Strachan, and the CBMW.
Yep, I would say they lean a little heavy on the complmentarian side! Consider this excerpt from AEA’s “The Marriage Bed” link that you provided: “I’m not a failure if my wife chooses not to follow what I say. That’s between her and God; it’s not my place to make her comply, and it’s not my place to take punitive measures.” At least they frown on “punitive measures”!
“I see submitting to my husband as submitting to any other authority”
From The Marriage Bed” under “Submission” category.
Thank you Brad for finding this information, and the Deebs for posting it. I think it’s important, given the amount of deliberate uncertainty being spread about that all the available facts be put on the table.
“I see submitting to my husband as submitting to any other authority”
I suppose these eternally subordinate proponents start brain-washing “their girls” at a young age for them to get to the point where they make such statements. Submitting to “any other authority” can have drastic consequences in certain ministries, as TWW chronicles! In the Body of Christ, we are to respond with submissive faith, but not to the point of submitting to that which goes contrary to God’s Word … and a good case can be made in Scripture that these authoritarian boys have stretched the Word beyond its boundaries in this regard.
I left a message at the AEA asking for clarification of their vetting requirements. I specifically asked about background checks, whether they were aware of Saeed Abedini’s conviction and if, so, why did they think it was a good idea to send him out as a missionary.
I also plan to ask them about the number of houses churches that he is allegedly credited with starting (100) along with the vetting of his conversion story. (He was asked to be a suicide bomber.)
Once violence entered this picture, i believe that it is wise to carefully vet all aspects of his story.
I’ve seen that “marriage bed” site recommended by Christians to other Christians with sexual marital problems on other sites the last few years, in threads on forums about marriage and relationships. It seems to be a popular “go to” site that some Christians advise others to use. It’s disturbing it takes a complementarian bent to the advice.
I have an idea-maybe I should call Franklin G with my idea. They could say that the history of alleged training as suicide bomber which led to emotional turmoil resulted in PTSD (and perhaps it might have). Then they could say that his wife carelessly or even intentionally sets him off and he can’t help it that sometimes he gets a bit over the line. Because, they might say, it is all her fault. She should not do that to him.
Amen! I hope every pulpit search committee in America is listening in to this. The days are long past when you should just trust anybody who goes by the title of “pastor” … things are not always as they seem. Pray for discernment, while you also delve deeply into each candidate’s past. Also be aware that in some corners of Christendom, a “network” protects their own and a candidate’s references may not be completely honest when supporting the man you are considering. Go outside the listed references on a candidate’s application; talk to others connected with ministries and employment he was once in. Good Lord, the American church is a mess … but Praise God, there is still the true Church out there – it may not just be going to “church” these days.
I suppose these eternally subordinate proponents start brain-washing “their girls” at a young age for them to get to the point where they make such statements.
I was definitely raised from the time I was a kid to think of myself and relationships and marriage in terms like that, though I was brought up under a softer, kinder, warm and fuzzier variety of gender complementarianism.
Your comment reminded me of this story I saw a few weeks ago (yes, it starts young and early in some families):
July 2014
If convicted, 19-year-old Matthew Durham could face life behind bars for allegedly raping and molesting a number of young children while volunteering at an African orphanage.
@ Daisy:
Whew! Now that’s disturbing, Daisy. My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist. She wouldn’t date, until her father found one for her through family connections in another state, and she married him promptly. Sick and wrong.
Abedinigalangashi.
Evidently there was a name change for the family.
I can see why.
“Abedinigalangashi” would be a nightmare for an English-speaker to pronounce, let alone spell. Like the actual proto-Farsi spelling of “Xerxes” from a history book on Salamis — I never could figure that one out.
@ Daisy:
Whew! Now that’s disturbing, Daisy. My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist. She wouldn’t date, until her father found one for her through family connections in another state, and she married him promptly. Sick and wrong.
hey could say that the history of alleged training as suicide bomber which led to emotional turmoil resulted in PTSD (and perhaps it might have). Then they could say that his wife carelessly or even intentionally sets him off and he can’t help it that sometimes he gets a bit over the line.
Hmmmm- this is beginning to sound more and more like the Ergun Caner fiasco. Wait…
Amen! I hope every pulpit search committee in America is listening in to this. The days are long past when you should just trust anybody who goes by the title of “pastor”
Some people who are preachers no longer hold the faith at all. There’s been more reports in the last few years of Christian preachers who lose their faith while working as a preacher, become atheists, but they feel trapped.
So, they keep pretending to believe in God and the Bible while working as a preacher. Some of them do leave. Eventually, a network was created for them to help them transition.
Aside from guys who abuse their wives or children, you have stuff like that going on, too.
I guess it goes to show that there are some guys working as preachers who are not qualified, for various reasons. They shouldn’t be in the pulpit or have the title of preacher.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
It is almost as bad as trying to pronounce this volcano in Iceland. Eyjafjallajökull
My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist.
That is horrible and so legalistic. And a marriage is not going to necessarily last because both people in the marriage are KJV Only Calvinists.
I find that to be a strange combination, btw. Many of the KJV Onlys I used to talk to years ago pretty much despised Calvinism. So I’m surprised there is such a thing as a KJVO Calvinist.
I also plan to ask them about the number of houses churches that he is allegedly credited with starting (100) along with the vetting of his conversion story. (He was asked to be a suicide bomber.)
Well, that tops Ergun Caner’s Testimony…
Snippet from Washing Post article:
“And Naghmeh will likely have to do so without the help of her high-profile friends, some of whom have distanced themselves from her. She also may face of suspicion from many of her former faith-based supporters, domestic abuse experts say.”
That is horrible and so legalistic. And a marriage is not going to necessarily last because both people in the marriage are KJV Only Calvinists.
Ever heard of “Our Duty to The Party”?
And that idea (that Theological Purity or “Common SCRIPTURAL Values(TM)”) is ALL that matters in a marriage is more widespread than you think. Christian foreplay: stand apart and recite SCRIPTURE(TM) or Theology to each other, then Do Our Duty for the 200-Year Plan.
And that idea (that Theological Purity or “Common SCRIPTURAL Values(TM)”) is ALL that matters in a marriage is more widespread than you think.
There’s a variation to that I’ve heard by Christian marriage speakers, that the only thing two people need for a marriage to work is a belief in Jesus Christ. I disagree with that belief.
Then you get the preachers who spin off that to say a marriage can work just dandy if the Christian couple think of their relationship in terms of a triangle, where Jesus is at the top of the triangle and the couple are below, parallel to one another.
I read an interview with a marriage counselor about divorce a couple of years ago. He said he had more success with his atheist clients, because they actually worked on their marital problems.
His Christian clients, however, believed that just having faith in Jesus or reading their Bible together would be the magic fix-it glue that would keep their marriage together. Which isn’t the case.
He said you have to work on your marriage, not just have this vague trust in Jesus that Jesus will fix things.
@ Daisy:
Whew! Now that’s disturbing, Daisy. My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist. She wouldn’t date, until her father found one for her through family connections in another state, and she married him promptly. Sick and wrong.
That has all the earmarks of the Gothard/Quiverfull movement.
They’d only then claim that the liberal court system is in ‘sin’, that they ‘don’t know the lord’, and that they care nothing for the ‘word of god’.
Whilst out the other sides of their mouths, they shout out Hebrews 13:17 – “Obey them that have the rule over you and submit ……..!”
I put together a procedure for accessing court cases relevant to this situation. Hopefully this will be of help for those wanting to do research themselves.
FOR THE LISTING OF THE 2016 “DOMESTIC RELATIONS” COURT CASE:
Step #1. Link to the IDAHO REPOSITORY for court cases. The main page gives you information about the Idaho Repository, how it works, what details are/aren’t available, etc. (Don’t skip this step — it’s important background about their online system.)
Step #3. Fill in names [Saeed Abedini] or [Naghmeh Panahi] and hit ENTER.
Step #4. Then you have to enter in text to prove you’re not a robot, and it will take you to the page with cases for the person you’re searching for.
Step #5. If there are multiple cases, the most current one is at the top of the page. Click on the option for “Case History with ROAs” in order to have the line-items listed.
FOR THE LISTING OF THE 2007 “DOMESTIC ASSAULT” COURT CASE:
Use the same process as above. When you get to Step #3, NAME SEARCH, fill in [Saeed Abedinigalangashi].
So I’m surprised there is such a thing as a KJVO Calvinist.
“Old” Calvinists prefer the KJV; especially those in the fundamentalist, independent Baptist groups who still talk and pray in “Thee” and “Thou” phrases. “New” Calvinists, on the other hand, are an ESV-only bunch.
“Old” Calvinists prefer the KJV; especially those in the fundamentalist, independent Baptist groups who still talk and pray in “Thee” and “Thou” phrases. “New” Calvinists, on the other hand, are an ESV-only bunch.
Now if we can get the Old Calvinists and New Calvinists to turn on each other as Heretics…
Of course, the really old Calvinists preferred the Geneva Bible, which preceded the KJV by 50 years … but later Calvinists in the independent Baptist ranks selected that sword until the ESV came along. The ESV Study Bible is the one the New Calvinist pastors carry; it contains lots of Calvinist commentary, including notes by JC himself (not Jesus Christ … John Calvin).
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Like Z – zerk-zees (or some such). I betcha this is sa Greek thing, though, givdn the Xs.
As with the Greek name Xenophon. Or the wo3d xenophobia.
This may make me a heretic but I cant imagine any true and loving all powerful Father setting His kids up for some horrid evil just to make a point or to prove some greater good. I appreciate all that is done I do hope the things in your family go well, I was in that boat for over twenty years.
Here’s some clobber verses fer’ ya’:
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
So siddown, quitcher’ whinin’ an’ shaddup!
@ Daisy:
Actually, there are forms of Calvinistic structure/ interpretation in much of Protestantism. I was shocked, too.
“we are to respond with submissive faith, but not to the point of submitting to that which goes contrary to God’s Word”
++++++++++++++++++++++++
or how about what is contrary to common sense?
for people who do this submitting-their-personal-agency-to-another-human-being thing (both the submitter and the ‘higher up’), do they feel a sense of grating against their common sense? but attribute the feeling to “well, of course <I?his-ways-are-not-our-ways is going to feel a bit different/odd”, “this must be what being in the world but not of the world is like”, bolstered by “after all, we are a peculiar people”?
Agreed, Christians should not be so open-minded that their brains fall out.
@ Nancy2:
Thanks Nancy2 for the Washington Post link. Interesting that a secular publication points out what the church ought to know! How many times have we seen the following play out in the watchblogs in regard to abuser/victim counseling in “church”? From the WP article:
” … faith can be a roadblock to getting assistance for victims of abuse. Victims are sometimes pressured to forgive their abuser early on in the process … But forgiveness, if given too early, can do more harm than good … When we talk about the problem of forgiveness — is what a church expects as the first step of dealing with a case of abuse … I always tell people it is the last step — there are a lot of things that need to happen before that step can happen” (Marie Fortune, Faith Trust Institute).
Just a thought
Unlike the other abusers in this country and reprobates like Josh Duggar, don’t you at least thing that Saeed had time to think in Iran and his abuse by those done to him in Iran and that Abedini got some sense of justice with his time in Iran. I mean, justice will never be perfect in this age and at times God does use other elements to judge. Look at Babylon and also Rome on Israelic leaders who taking advantage of widows (Isaiah 10:1-2, Matthew 23). This country still has leaders that exploit their flock mooney and physically. If they don’t take it serious and implement review boards at the state level as Crista Brown has requested, God will indeed use other instruments to judge. He may be able to use our justice system still in dealing with current wayward clergy in the country but I am not holding my breath. especially when I see nothing done to the former Baptist and possible first husband of Hillary and seeing his abuse that he has done in the past.
“Well, that tops Ergun Caner’s Testimony…”
+++++++++
maybe that’s what this is all about. filling the void that ergun caner left in the business plan & marketing strategy of that shadowy entity ‘the Christian industrial complex’.
““And Naghmeh will likely have to do so without the help of her high-profile friends, some of whom have distanced themselves from her. She also may face of suspicion from many of her former faith-based supporters, domestic abuse experts say.”
+++++++++++++
she needs better friends.
what a pathetic religion this has turned out to be.
“Well, that tops Ergun Caner’s Testimony…”
+++++++++
maybe that’s what this is all about. filling the void that ergun caner left in the business plan & marketing strategy of that shadowy entity ‘the Christian industrial complex’.
Here’s what Katharine Bushnell said almost a century ago. Long before the claptrap promulgated by a fundagelicalism not much older than 40-45 years:
If we find even in the Bible anything which confuses our sense of right and wrong,
that seems to us less exalted and pure than the character of God should be:
if after the most patient thought and prayerful pondering it still retains that aspect,
then we must not bow down to it as God’s revelation to us, since it does not meet the
need of the earlier and more sacred revelation He has given us in our spirit and
conscience which testify of him.
Amen and Amen!
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
The surname incorporates the region he comes from -Galan and that probably explains why he is supposed to be setting up an orphanage in Rasht, which is the biggest city in Galan province.
elastigirl wrote:
or how about what is contrary to common sense?
I was just thinking the other day about how, for all the emphasis the Bible puts on the value of wisdom, certain Christian pastors and their fans tell people to do very unwise things indeed. Sigh.
The surname incorporates the region he comes from -Galan- and that probably explains why he is supposed to be setting up an orphanage in Rasht, which is the biggest city in Galan province.
“There are two sides to every story.” = The Abuser’s Mantra.
Real friends………friends that don’t judge her on her ability to role play.
@ Lowlandseer:
Thanks for this! It’s pretty straightforward as long as one works through the syllables, too (imo, anyway).
So there are two sides to every story? Are there two sides to the story as to why Saeed was in prison; does Iran have a side which we must consider before ‘taking sides’ with Saeed in the matter? Or are there only two sides if somebody claims abuse, especially if the accused is an evangelical icon?
I think that indeed there are two sides to every story, but by no means are the sides necessarily equal. That is what investigations are for. In the meantime, if we are to doubt her we must also doubt him in order to be fair and equal to the two sides theory.
So there are two sides to every story? Are there two sides to the story as to why Saeed was in prison; does Iran have a side which we must consider before ‘taking sides’ with Saeed in the matter? Or are there only two sides if somebody claims abuse, especially if the accused is an evangelical icon?
Ha, good point, okrapod! I don’t recall FG saying, “there’s two sides to every story” when certain people were insisting on and working towards the release of the prisoners!
what a pathetic religion this has turned out to be. I think Jesus agrees with me.
Therein lies the problem. It’s never really been about “religion”, but relationship with Christ. Jesus advised us not to forsake the commandments of God for the teachings and traditions of men (= religion). Two thousand years later, we’ve done fine job dodging the plan Jesus had for His Church. I hope I live long enough to see organized religion’s funeral preached!
And, yes, Jesus agrees with you.
I’ve seen Franklin Graham come up a time or two in some of these discussions (either here or on Julie Ann’s blog) in relation to the story about Naghmeh, so I thought this may be of interest to some of you:
Jesus advised us not to forsake the commandments of God for the teachings and traditions of men (= religion).
On the other hand, at the time of Jesus and back to Moses, some of the commandments of God did have to do with the practice of religion. I always heard it preached that Jesus meant the traditions of men (aimed at the Pharisees) when those traditions conflicted with or added to the Mosaic law. He did after all tell the people to do what the Pharisees taught ‘because they sit in Moses’ seat’ but don’t do what they do.
Darlene, on my hp laptop if you hold down the “control” key and while holding it down scroll forward and back with the middle dial on a mouse, you can make anything bigger or smaller.
@ Muff Potter:
Amen! And now you know why some Scriptural interpretations by New Calvinists (or other authoritarian church leaders) don’t ring true to you! They don’t come alongside the Holy Spirit’s revelation to you which was sent to lead ‘you’ into truth.
I’ve been busy out/about lately and come back here to find that you have been wildly busier! Wow!
Naghmeh (if you are reading), you are impressive for doing the right thing against all kinds of pressure. I hope you have good supportive friends for your daily life.
Dee, please take good care of yourself?! A cliche comes to mind, about the first oxygen bag on the airplane.
I am so very grateful for all of you wonderful people who take action on behalf of abused people, no matter where/who/when.
I’ve seen Franklin Graham come up a time or two in some of these discussions (either here or on Julie Ann’s blog) in relation to the story about Naghmeh, so I thought this may be of interest to some of you:
Franklin Graham wants to be the next Billy Graham. He’s not even close
Sounds like Famous Father Syndrome crossed with Anticlimax.
There are all kinds of subjects Dee and Deb post, it is interesting that abuse of an individual brings out the oddball first time commenters as no other subject does. Mind you this is not from a thorough survey, just my general reaction. Interesting in this case the silencing commenters came in quickly, often they are latecomers that drop in when the thread is almost stale.
They also bring out those of us who tend to read more but don’t post so much. 🙂
Can anyone make out a date on that court document?
I just want to remind y’all that Saeed pled guilty in 2007 and was ordained in 2008. Whether this case was sealed or not, Saeed should have been up front and honest about it on his application for ordination. If he did tell the truth on the application, this does not speak well for the AEA.
Exactly! Nobody who continues to support him comes out well from this.
“Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.” -Saeed
….Essentially, he is calling his wife a liar publicly while the court records are–obviously–readily available to expose the truth otherwise. Ick.
Perhaps Saeed is using the ‘strictly-literal’ defense? Naghmeh apologized for misleading people in her posts and reports, right? Maybe his accusation of her untruthfulness is accurate only in that she didn’t tell the truth about his experiences in prison. (Never mind that what she said was under threat by him and his situation).
So perhaps he’s turning the tables on her for his own benefit. Plus, I could easily see his supporting bozos saying that if she lied there, who can believe anything she says?
Maybe, I don’t know—it is something my abusive father would have done.
Now, just to break the tension, I have a cornbread update. My daughter has been married for 8 years. Her husband (army brat whose family is from Utah) has always claimed that he does not like cornbread and has persistently refused to eat the stuff. I did deliver the acquired cast iron cornbread skillet to her ~~ the skillet that is divided into 8 wedges. She made cornbread last night and her husband ate 6 of the 8 wedges.
I think we have another convert.
Maybe his accusation of her untruthfulness is accurate only in that she didn’t tell the truth about his experiences in prison. (Never mind that what she said was under threat by him and his situation).
AN anti-Naghmeh commentor on SSB claimed that Naghmeh said in one report that she talked with Saeed on the phone for 8 hours at a time, and that there is no way that could be possible. If she did say that – and I stress “if” -, she could have very easily just been overwhelmed and confused and simply spoke in error without even realizing what she had said. Something like that would have opened the door for Saeed’s claims.
“Where unbelievers fend off the truth as a deliberate action of their unbelief, we as believers should pursue and adhere to the truth as the deliberate action of our faith. After all, Jesus calls his followers to himself and to a way of life, and not first to a creed or a set of beliefs.”
(Os Guinness: Fool’s Talk:Recovering the Art of Christian Persuasion,p206)
Apologies for quoting the book again but it is very,very good.
Ha, good point, okrapod! I don’t recall FG saying, “there’s two sides to every story” when certain people were insisting on and working towards the release of the prisoners!
“Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.”
This type of statement is always an easy one to make because it does not define how much “much” is, or which parts are true and not true, or which media reports or posts contain the supposed “untruth.” At the same time, it seeks to undermine those parts which even this speaker admits are true. Therefore, I see this type of statement as a dishonest statement (when anyone does it, not just Saeed), it is a statement designed to persuade without committing to anything concrete. If it’s being used to ‘save face’ I think it’s a mistake.
Problem is “It’s Not a Religion, It’s a RELATIONSHIP” has become just another Evangelical Buzzword, or a clobber verse for a Jesus Juke slapdown.
I heard that a lot as a child, just not related to the particular statement of Jesus that Max noted. Whenever I heard it the thing was always about some catholic behavior which could not be condemned some other way other than identifying it as part of ‘religion’ and therefore to be avoided and condemned. Even as a child I thought it strange that our behaviors were not ‘religion’ but theirs were. I also thought it strange that one could not have both ‘religion’ and relationship, but I never got an explanation for that.
And of course there was Jesus who was a religious man, went to synagogue ‘as was his custom’ and let himself be called rabbi. I am thinking that this all comes down to definitions.
I did deliver the acquired cast iron cornbread skillet to her ~~ the skillet that is divided into 8 wedges. She made cornbread last night and her husband ate 6 of the 8 wedges.
I like the corner pieces, that get crispy crunchy on the edges more. (At least, that is how it ends up in the sort of cookware my family uses for cornbread.)
@ Nancy2:
That must be the same guy there who got hung up on the minutia of how cell phone reception works, how or if people in Iran can get naughty site reception on cell phones there, etc.
Some of these guys are really going all out to discredit Naghmeh as much as they can. It’s weird (and sad).
It reminds me a little of an online friend I had a long time ago who was a conspiracy theory buff, she was especially into 9/11 theories. Her favorite sites had all sorts of nit picky details about how or why steel cannot supposedly melt at certain temperatures, or how jet fuel on fire cannot melt metal, or whatever.
Haitch wrote:
Then some good has come of it
Agreed!
Now, just to break the tension, I have a cornbread update. My daughter has been married for 8 years. Her husband (army brat whose family is from Utah) has always claimed that he does not like cornbread and has persistently refused to eat the stuff. I did deliver the acquired cast iron cornbread skillet to her ~~ the skillet that is divided into 8 wedges. She made cornbread last night and her husband ate 6 of the 8 wedges.
I guess it goes to show that there are some guys working as preachers who are not qualified, for various reasons. They shouldn’t be in the pulpit or have the title of preacher.
Daisy I want to tackle this topic at my blog. Its on the list of a million things to do. But evangelicals sometime box themselves in that they have no out. The all or nothing mentality is toxic. On so many levels. Thanks for this article…I did not see it in my faith crisis, I am going to work this into a post. I’m up to my eyeballs in material already.
Great Caesar’s Ghost! I didn’t know Dee and Brad got up a post on Sunday!
Daisy I want to tackle this topic at my blog. Its on the list of a million things to do. But evangelicals sometime box themselves in that they have no out. The all or nothing mentality is toxic. On so many levels. Thanks for this article…I did not see it in my faith crisis, I am going to work this into a post. I’m up to my eyeballs in material already.
Oh, hey, there are many more like that one I linked to.
That topic (of preachers secretly losing their faith and turning agnostic / atheist) was a sort of “theme” that the media began covering, I don’t know, about a year or 2 ago?
If you go to google and type in something like “preacher now an atheist,” or some phrase like that, you will find a lot more articles.
Some of the articles are by Christians, some by atheists, some are by news sites.
I don’t know if you’d find this somewhat related article helpful or interesting:
I like the corner pieces, that get crispy crunchy on the edges more. (At least, that is how it ends up in the sort of cookware my family uses for cornbread.)
These skillets I’m talking about are specifically made for cornbread. They are 10″ round skillets with dividers built in, all cast iron. That means every serving of cornbread has 3 corners, as well as 3 nice, crusty sides! Ummm ummm. They don’t fall apart when you split them open and slather on the butter, and they crumble into beans and buttermilk without completely falling apart! Perfect!
elastigirl wrote:
the concept of heretic is like the concept of driving a car. everyone slower than us is a moron. everyone faster than us is a maniac. the only decent drivers are those driving exactly like us.
Not to get off topic, but excellent comment. I’ll remember this the next time I’m on the road.
Today I informed several drivers that they’re heretics. It’s my Christian duty to speak the truth with love.
P.S. Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my post to you above.
I don’t know if she has any stories of preachers turning atheist or agnostic in her book, but I do recall in the book “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin, she does have an interview with a guy who was a preacher whose outlook changed a lot to the point he (IIRC) quit the ministry to go into ‘secular’ work.
I think that preacher in her book still believes in God, but he no longer believes in some of the same things he did while he was a -either an evangelical or Reformed- I can’t recall which- preacher.
His views on how to interpret the Bible changed, among other things.
That may be a book you want to read too. It also has good chapters on why women and the unmarried are leaving churches in droves.
I wish the evangelical community would stop and think about whether or not the Christian celebrities they idolize are really the people that they think they are. Just because Christian marketing promotes a person one way doesn’t really mean they’re like that. The Franklin Graham supporters seem to fall for this, my relatives included. Sometimes, my natural cynicism is an advantage.
@ Eagle:
P.S. Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my post to you above.
I don’t know if she has any stories of preachers turning atheist or agnostic in her book, but I do recall in the book “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin, she does have an interview with a guy who was a preacher whose outlook changed a lot to the point he (IIRC) quit the ministry to go into ‘secular’ work.
I think that preacher in her book still believes in God, but he no longer believes in some of the same things he did while he was a -either an evangelical or Reformed- I can’t recall which- preacher.
His views on how to interpret the Bible changed, among other things.
I can see how many evangelical seminaries box people so that there is only one correct way to think about something, one correct way to interpret the Bible, etc. So, when people actually think about things, they can form doubts and believe that they’re doubting Christianity itself while true Christianity actually allows for questions and allows for examining new viewpoints. Nonbelievers, in the meantime, see seminary students and ministers leaving the faith and assume it’s the faith that’s wrong.
I can see how many evangelical seminaries box people so that there is only one correct way to think about something, one correct way to interpret the Bible
Someone famous once asked, “Where else can they go?”
On vetting/calling to foreign missions involving children
Should someone who is involved in pornography be called to be a pastor/receivor of money in foreign mission/ involved with children?
If it’s true that Saeed is involved in pornograhy I don’t think he should be involved in ministry nor in setting up an orphanage. Think back to Voice of the Martyrs head. I found out that they haven’t and don’t vet/ or do a background check on their staff or volunteers.
In my humble opinion I would like to suggest that some of you may be going into cornbread withdrawal. I am noting this preoccupation with the subject and this fantasizing how good it tastes and how many uses it has and how to make it. Maybe you all need to go get a cornbread fix and feel better?
In my humble opinion I would like to suggest that some of you may be going into cornbread withdrawal. I am noting this preoccupation with the subject and this fantasizing how good it tastes and how many uses it has and how to make it. Maybe you all need to go get a cornbread fix and feel better?
Patrice wrote:
Perhaps Saeed is using the ‘strictly-literal’ defense?
That anything like the “Plain Reading of Scripture” a la Ken Ham & Hal Lindsay?
My name for same. It’s a strange mindset—living by prosaic precision rather than by heart/mind/strength cooperation. It doesn’t allow room for curiosity or imagination, which disables empathy.
I have a brother like this. He constantly “won” childhood battles via literal ‘gotchas’. He is now a banker at one of the too-big-to-fails. Also a staunch complementarian Calvinist. He still can’t believe I could be intelligent because I am female. He has honestly struggled with that for decades lol
Max wrote:
My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist.
That is horrible and so legalistic. And a marriage is not going to necessarily last because both people in the marriage are KJV Only Calvinists.
I find that to be a strange combination, btw. Many of the KJV Onlys I used to talk to years ago pretty much despised Calvinism. So I’m surprised there is such a thing as a KJVO Calvinist.
Yup. I knew some in our old legalistic church, years ago. But our church was not conservative enough for them. The pastor wasn’t KJVO, for one thing, and most of the women didn’t wear head coverings, and they were uncomfortable with the piano/organ accompaniment. Eventually they left for another, more conservative calvinist church.
AN anti-Naghmeh commentor on SSB claimed that Naghmeh said in one report that she talked with Saeed on the phone for 8 hours at a time, and that there is no way that could be possible. If she did say that – and I stress “if” -, she could have…simply spoke in error….Something like that would have opened the door for Saeed’s claims.
I certainly wouldn’t have been able to keep everything straight while under that much stress, plus endless touring/speaking and writing, plus caring for two children.
But it’s also possible that she sometimes did talk to him all day long. After all, Saeed was jailed for 3 1/2 years’ worth of days.
A rational person wouldn’t assume that, every single day, she spent 6-8 hrs on the phone with him and also had 20-hr praying sessions. Unless they wanted to discount her story by picayune literalism. :eyeroll:
“Whatever we do and have done, whether right or wrong, is a matter of record and reality. Responsibly owning up to it therefore aligns us to reality and to truth in a way that liberates. And far from being weak or an act of surrender, confession is the expression of rare moral courage, for in confessing a person demonstrates the strength of character to go on record against himself or herself. Again the result of free confession is freedom”.
I love this quote. Isn’t it amazingly appropos to how we came to know Christ in the first place? Even after admitting we are sinners and accepting his death in our place, human nature wants to return to covering up mode.
Part of this is elevating Paul to the level of God, which would horrify Paul.
Yep, Paul gets more press than Jesus in New Calvinist churches. They cherry-pick verses from Paul’s epistles to defend reformed theology. I’ve told the young whippersnappers that they need to read the Gospels and try to get their heads back where they should be. If you read Paul first, you might read Jesus wrong. But if you read Jesus first (the Gospels), the writings of Paul come into perspective. Yes, Paul would be horrified at the way the New Calvinists have twisted his words.
It reminds me a little of an online friend I had a long time ago who was a conspiracy theory buff, she was especially into 9/11 theories. Her favorite sites had all sorts of nit picky details about how or why steel cannot supposedly melt at certain temperatures, or how jet fuel on fire cannot melt metal, or whatever.
I have to admit in my mind I’m picturing these same sorts of loonies attacking Naghmeh’s credibility.
I’m also beginning to wonder if the bombshell Naghmeh dropped on the Christian world may be only the tip of the iceberg?
And what if the friend betrayed her confidence because she was fearful for her?
I have a couple of thoughts here. First, why is it that a lot of people when they become Christians immediately go into ministry? Some feel called by God, or some call themselves. Wouldn’t it be better for the new christians to study the Bible and go to Bible studies, etc. so they can learn how to be a minister. Not everyone is called like Saul in the Bible when he became Paul. I am not saying that seminaries are the thing everyone has to go to to become a minister, but at least get a bit of training and help somewhere. You can be just as big of witness for God being in the secular world. Secondly, I don’t know the Irani culture, but maybe they think it’s ok to abuse their wives. If this is so, then of course Saeed is saying that she is lying. It wasn’t abuse in the way he was brought up. Even though he has been out of the country for a long time, we all know that what we learn while growing up stays with us a long time. (Dee, feel free to delete this post if it is totally off the wall). Still on pain pills for my foot.
Over at Michael Newnham’s blog there is a Calvary Chapel pastor, one Steve Wright, who claims that there was no alledged ‘leak’ by trusted confidants and that Nahgmeh spread their marital dirt around the electronic world all by herself with a massive e-mail campaign. Here is what Mr. Wright wrote:
================================================================================
She initially just spoke out to friends, and then it was leaked.
———————————–
I guess I do need to repeat myself once more….
She initially spoke to a massive mailing email list (too big for her regular email and thus the need for a google group)…I was on it. Once and for all the idea that she confided in a couple of friends needs to end. She told hundreds to thousands of people her husband watched porn, out of the blue, along with the rest of the bombshell that sounded like it was written by another person.
I don’t “feel” duped…I was duped. For 14 months specifically…and in turn I duped others.
All that is left is if she lied then or is lying now…and depending on the answer, the motive will likewise change as will the explanation…Maybe ACLJ put a proverbial gun to her head and that is why she wrote us the lies she did. If so, the world (and the attorney general) need to know that.
====================================================================================
The above is Wright’s comment on a thread at Newnham’s blog, it’s number 31, here’s the link:
Even though he has been out of the country for a long time, we all know that what we learn while growing up stays with us a long time.
IIRC, Saeed hasn’t really spent that much time outside of Iran. I think Saeed and Naghmeh were married in Iran in ’04. (I think her parents went back to Iran to do mission work?). I think they moved to the U.S. in 2005, and I think Saeed made 9 trips to Iran between 2005 and 2012 – don’t know how long he stayed each time.
I hope you feel well enough not to need the pain pills soon, Harley.
By the way, I think that was the same blog I went to a few days ago. One guy there was a total jerk. I think I told him to get bent. I got fed up and left.
It’s no secret that the clientele at Newnham’s blog lean fundagelical, so I’m not surprised that one of their own would jump in swinging to protect his brand-name. The Abedinis were after all, devout Calvary Chapelites of Boise Idaho. It’s just that the truth about the leak is out there. Maybe Scully and Mulder could help?
Someone sent me an “update” article from CT that reported the wife’s allegations of abuse. But the story did not include a reference to the guilty plea. It would be good if someone sent them the record of this guilty plea so they can update the update.
Over at Michael Newnham’s blog there is a Calvary Chapel pastor, one Steve Wright, who claims that there was no alledged ‘leak’ by trusted confidants and that Nahgmeh spread their marital dirt around the electronic world all by herself with a massive e-mail campaign.
Calvary Chapel.
The ONLY Real True Christians(TM) in the entire universe.
Why am I not surprised?
Patriciamc wrote:
I can see how many evangelical seminaries box people so that there is only one correct way to think about something, one correct way to interpret the Bible
Someone famous once asked, “Where else can they go?”
Oh yes, the neo-cal pope, the one who fired people at his seminary because they didn’t believe in Calvinism. What a guy.
Hello Numo
I’ve looked at his full name again and I realised that گالانگاشی in Arabic is “KalanKashi” not “Galangashi”. There is a village called KalanKashi further to the west of Galan province so it it be this is where the family originated from. Doesn’t really add anything to the discussion but I was curious about the name.
One other question. In order for Abedini to set up an orphanage in Iran,would he not have been required to obtain an OFAC licence from the US Treasury Department? I ask this because Moms Against Poverty had to get one so that they could set up orphanages in that country. You can read about them here:
The facts are quite straightforward. Hezbollah isn’t in the habit of recruiting in Iran. They do so in conflict zones, most notably in Lebanon., and even then only when there is a need and if action is required urgently. (http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a545234.pdf). They are of course seen as Iran’s proxy but in-country recruitment would be at the hands of the Revolutionary Guards or the Basij (http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/basij-resistance-force).
In my opinion, It’s not just the AEA who have been gullible in their dealings with this man.
Not everyone is called like Saul in the Bible when he became Paul.
Paul waited fourteen years after his conversion to begin his public ministry.
To give you some context. Between 1980 and 2003 Hzbollah carried out a total of 36 suicide attacks. (Robert Pape, Dying to Win: Why Suicide Terrorists Do It, Appendix1, p231).
New post up at Spiritual Sounding Board that takes a look at the processes in “Vetting, Accountability, Licensing, and Promoting for Pastor Saeed Abedini: Exploring What Went Wrong and How.”
The Abedinis were after all, devout Calvary Chapelites of Boise Idaho. It’s just that the truth about the leak is out there
Again, why am I not surprised?
I have always gotten a bad vibe about Calvary Chapel. Like they distill down and concentrate all that can go sour with a church.
I have, too…..
@ Lowlandseer:
I have lots of questions about his story. Perhaps they are true but I will never forget Ergun Caner and his lies. Christians love the stories of converted suicide bombers and jihadist.
It used to be “I was a heroin addict and a witch but I found Jesus.” It has been replaced by “I was a terrorist.” Christians should vet all of these “really cool stories.”
@ Lowlandseer:
I have lots of questions about his story. Perhaps they are true but I will never forget Ergun Caner and his lies. Christians love the stories of converted suicide bombers and jihadist.
It used to be “I was a heroin addict and a witch but I found Jesus.” It has been replaced by “I was a terrorist.” Christians should vet all of these “really cool stories.”
The darnedest lies I’ve ever heard have come from the pulpit. In fact, in my aspiring pastor/paid church staffer/public speaking evangelist days, I used to tell them also. I never checked facts, didn’t want to, because if the story illustrated my point and induced tears in the audience (or in me as I blubbered in front of the audience–not out of awe for Jesus, but out of awe for my own eloquence and general all-round wonderfulness), that was what I wanted. Some stories were just too good to check out. What a full blown liar I was!
@ Muff Potter:
Marital *dirt?* Women should not spread around abuse and instead keep it quiet like good little girls married to missionaries affiliated with Calvary Chapel.
Hmmm-Calvary Chapel has their own baggage and they best be careful of pointing fingers since fingers are pointing right back at them.
@ Harley:
Thoughtful comment, Harley. Sorry about the foot.
Sometimes we are assuming that they want to be pastors to serve others. What if, deep down inside, they want to make money and have little accountability? Saeed is on his way to make bucks on the conference circuit and Naghmeh is screwing things up.
Unlike the other abusers in this country and reprobates like Josh Duggar, don’t you at least thing that Saeed had time to think in Iran and his abuse by those done to him in Iran and that Abedini got some sense of justice with his time in Iran.
You are assuming that Saeed equates his abuse of his wife with the abuse he suffered in prison. Abusers do not think that way. Naghmeh is to serve him and if she doesn’t do what he wants, she is *abusing* him. She is in the same positions of those who imprisoned him. They are all against him.
@ Daisy:
That made me laugh. A couple of times Lily the pug jumped on my computer and the screen filled with gobbledygook.
Saeed is on his way to make bucks on the conference circuit and Naghmeh is screwing things up.
There’s a lot of money at stake, not just for Saeed, but for other Christian celebs and publishing houses, as well as the conferences themselves: legit NYT bestseller book deals, perhaps co-written (or ghosted) between current church glitterati and Saeed, sold out conferences with top dollar ticket prices around the country, movie rights–a lot of people stand to gain a lot of prominence, influence and money from a story like Saeed’s. People with political aspirations (Franklin Graham, possibly?) or seeking political influence could ride a story like Saeed’s quite far.
A great deal at stake, a lot of forces likely to try to do whatever it takes, perhaps even crack a few ex-wife eggs, to make it happen. It is possible that we may be hearing soon from several sources stories about another “bat $#!* crazy” ex-wife.
There’s a lot of money at stake, not just for Saeed, but for other Christian celebs and publishing houses, as well as the conferences themselves: legit NYT bestseller book deals, perhaps co-written (or ghosted) between current church glitterati and Saeed, sold out conferences with top dollar ticket prices around the country, movie rights–a lot of people stand to gain a lot of prominence, influence and money from a story like Saeed’s. People with political aspirations (Franklin Graham, possibly?) or seeking political influence could ride a story like Saeed’s quite far.
And one Uppity WOMAN stands in the way.
Righteous Causes have dealt with Uppity Obstacles in the past.
Causes so Righteous they justify anything whatsoever to bring them to Victory.
That’s why I wonder if Naghmeh’s life might be in danger.
The darnedest lies I’ve ever heard have come from the pulpit.
How do they compare to a wartime country’s mass media the day before that country loses the war?
(Example from Eighties military-affairs expert James Dunnigan.)
@ Lowlandseer:
I have lots of questions about his story. Perhaps they are true but I will never forget Ergun Caner and his lies. Christians love the stories of converted suicide bombers and jihadist.
It used to be “I was a heroin addict and a witch but I found Jesus.” It has been replaced by “I was a terrorist.” Christians should vet all of these “really cool stories.”
“Really Cool Stories”.
Can-You-Top-This JUICY and EXCITING Testimonies.
How do you think the Church Ladies get their fix of Vicarious SIN SIN SIN and still stay RESPECTABLE(TM)?
“There’s a lot of money at stake, not just for Saeed, but for other Christian celebs and publishing houses, as well as the conferences themselves: …
A great deal at stake, a lot of forces likely to try to do whatever it takes, perhaps even crack a few ex-wife eggs, to make it happen. It is possible that we may be hearing soon from several sources stories about another “bat $#!* crazy” ex-wife.”
++++++++++++++++++++
I hope Boz Tchividjian (& others with clout and influence who have their heads screwed on right) will be in Naghmeh’s corner to speak truth to power (if necessary, to his relative).
I sure wish it was popular to speak for free & write books at cost, or to use it as a vehicle to raise money for a very needy cause and donate ALL of it.
wealth is too tantalizing & tempting, it seems.
so disappointed in what this silly religion has become. jesus agrees with me.
Here’s the link and introduction to my latest blog post, which reflects some of the thinking I’ve been doing about specific “indicators” for vetting, background checks, and system evaluations. We need these to discern who and what deserves our trust (or doesn’t). That’s certainly become an issue here, with so many individuals and organizations either claiming some territory in this situation or previously being involved but have now silently slipped out.
Recently, I edited a friend’s medical research grant for a follow-up study on a major public health issue. It focuses on identifying specific biological indicators of a particular disease, and figuring out mechanisms for how the interaction of body and “biomarkers” works. If we can discern the connections that predict the disease, then we can work on prevention and improve overall health. This post shares my forthcoming Field Guide’s 15 indicators for discerning what constitutes healthy versus malignant leaders, and trustworthy versus toxic organizations.
“Could it possibly be that the *world* has higher standards than the Evangelical church?”
++++++++++++
good gracious yes.
so many kind, honest, compassionate, responsible people in so many places.
I attended the funeral of a local gentleman who never had much of any faith in anything. He died, at the age of 87, of injuries received whilst delivering delivering Meals On Wheels to the elderly. Because, you see, he could get out & he liked helping people…..
Kinda makes you rethink the whole way you look at the world, you know?
“Kinda makes you rethink the whole way you look at the world, you know?”
++++++++++++++
yes. quite a realization for me when I acknowledged what I had been seeing for a long time: the best human beings I have ever known (kind, honest, generous, sincere, compassionate, giving of themselves) are my muslim friend and my atheist friend.
@ elastigirl:
I hear you. Kindness and decency seem to be found in people of all religions, and none. I’ve met far nicer people who are not professed xtians (of any kind) than I did in churches, for the most part. (I knew some lovely people there, too, but we all had a judgmental streak when it came to “unbelievers.” Enough said!)
Idaho Statesman article of February 4, 2016, by John Sowell: “Abedini domestic violence incident in 2007 triggered by laptop argument.”
So she shut down down his laptop and tried prevent him from having communication with his family. This would be considered abuse if the genders were reversed. The only question is whether he shoved her which he denied.
So she shut down down his laptop and tried prevent him from having communication with his family. This would be considered abuse if the genders were reversed. The only question is whether he shoved her which he denied.
@ Lowlandseer:
I have lots of questions about his story. Perhaps they are true but I will never forget Ergun Caner and his lies. Christians love the stories of converted suicide bombers and jihadist.
Ergun wasn’t the first guy to seriously pad his resume and he won’t be the last.
I know this is late, but thank you two so much for reporting on this and for standing up for Naghmeh and for women in general. The way the evangelical mainstream has treated this whole Abedini debacle really shows how little it cares about abused women and it has shaken my faith to the core. I am going through a crisis of faith right now, and even if I end up remaining a Christian, my beliefs will have to substantially realign themselves so that I can’t say that Franklin Graham and all those who would promote a woman only when she advocates for a man are the truest representation of my faith. People like you make me want to stay in Christianity.
So she shut down down his laptop and tried prevent him from having communication with his family.
It would maybe depend if it was a recurrent action on her part.
If it was a one-time event in which she was frustrated because she couldn’t get his attention, and/or she was trying to intimidate him and control him, maybe not.
Abuse is an on-going pattern of behavior, where the abuser is trying to control the target.
I don’t know if anyone has posted this elsewhere, but Saeed has broken his silence on his Facebook page and indicates things are not going well with his wife. He requests prayers for their marriage.
Thanks Brad! Your research skills are impeccable!
Thanks, Deb. And thanks go out to XianJaneway, who posted a comment on Spiritual Sounding Board with some additional information that the Idaho Statesman newspaper reported on the case. That got me right to the case via the online Idaho Court Repository. And I’m thankful for the news reporting by John Sowell at the Statesman. He’s provided us with important details that help us all with doing our due diligence.
http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/01/30/pastor-saeed-abedini-releasea-public-statement-denying-abuse-allegations-against-his-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-314046
A jury trial? That would be unusual in my neck of the woods for domestic violence. Wow.
Is there some way that can be enlarged? I would like to link it to some of those newspapers where, in the comments, some people claim Naghmeh is lying about the domestic abuse charge.
Domestic abuse = $75.50 fine + 90 days suspended jail sentence + 12 month probation?!
And speaking of abuse by pastors, a new book is shedding some awful light on the subject: “The Big Book of Bad Baptist Preachers” by Jeri Massi. From a Baptist News Global article on the book: “… abuse victims have been written off, discarded and even vilified in the pulpits of both Independent Baptists and the Southern Baptist Convention” https://baptistnews.com/culture/social-issues/item/30874-book-documents-molestation-in-conservative-baptist-churches
Darlene wrote:
If you right click on the image, then select “View Image” you should at least be able to see a somewhat larger version.
Darlene wrote:
They’d only then claim that the liberal court system is in ‘sin’, that they ‘don’t know the lord’, and that they care nothing for the ‘word of god’.
He didn’t address the abuse, but I didn’t see anything in his statement saying he never abused her. His exact words were, “Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.”
I think he may be playing with words and not fessing up. I’m concerned that we be accurate in our statements and not play with words as well, because we don’t want the truth discredited in any way. That can create a whole ‘nother set of problems.
Btw, great research.
Muff Potter wrote:
I’m watching and waiting. Someone is going to pop up on here and trot out a couple of ponies named “Forgery” and “Conspiracy”.
Stay strong, Naghmeh.
A question from Gary W came up on a thread at Spiritual Sounding Board, asking how the relevant statute would have read in 2007 when the case was current. Here’s a link to my response from what I’ve been able to put together so far. I’ll also cut and paste the relevant material shortly in a separate comment on this thread.
http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/01/30/pastor-saeed-abedini-releasea-public-statement-denying-abuse-allegations-against-his-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-314092
There are all kinds of subjects Dee and Deb post, it is interesting that abuse of an individual brings out the oddball first time commenters as no other subject does. Mind you this is not from a thorough survey, just my general reaction. Interesting in this case the silencing commenters came in quickly, often they are latecomers that drop in when the thread is almost stale.
For those doing research, here is additional information. This doesn’t give us all the details of how the relevant statute read in 2007/2008 when the case was filed and the final disposition noted, but these specifics should help clarify the questions for searching to find those answers.
START WITH THE SCREENSHOT
Working from the screenshot of the 2007 domestic assault court case as posted on The Wartburg Watch at …
http://thewartburgwatch.com/tww2/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Screen-Shot-2016-01-31-at-6.10.26-PM.png
… confirms that section 18-918(3)(a) is the relevant statute.
NOTE: One trick for seeing a larger version of the image is to press [CTRL] and the [ =/+ ] key simultaneously. To reduce the image, press [CTRL] and the [ -/_ ] key simultaneously.
IDAHO STATUTE 18-918(3)(a) AND (3)(c) – PUNISHMENTS FOR “ASSAULT AND BATTERY”
Then, go to the Idaho state code for that statute at …
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title18/T18CH9SECT18-918.htm
Section 18-913(3)(a) states:
At the bottom of the page, the “History” footnotes show that the last amendment to this section of statutes was made in 2009, and before that, in 2005. [We’d have to track the legislative records to find what specifically changed in 2009 to figure out what was current in 2007/2008 when the case was active.] Click on the link at the bottom of the page for “How current is this law?” and we find that the version listed is current as of the 2015 legislative session, and that the website is updated July 1st after the sessions.
See also section 18-913(3)(c) for what is current about a second conviction within 10 years of the first, whether it was pleading guilty or found guilty. (NOTE: I split this into three paragraphs to make it easier to read. The first one is for first conviction, the second for a second conviction within 10 years, the three paragraph is for three convictions within 15 years.)
IDAHO STATUTE 18-901 – DEFINITIONS OF “ASSAULT AND BATTERY”
Statute 18-913(3)(a) referred to the definition of “assault” being in section 18-901. The link to that statute, and the content, is as follows:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title18/T18CH9SECT18-901.htm
According to the History section on that statute, these definitions were added to the Idaho state code in 1979, and no amendments have since been noted.
“Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true.”
-Saeed (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/01/30/pastor-saeed-abedini-releasea-public-statement-denying-abuse-allegations-against-his-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-314046)
This really bothers me as a fellow pastor. Doubly so by how the he is being held up publicly by prominent evangelical pastor(s).
Saeed PLEAD GUILTY to domestic assault! Even if that was truly all in the past, a truly repentant abuser would recognize that such a history DOES create fear in his abuse victim. Why not cut his wife some more slack? (Unless he is unwilling to fully own his own sin?)
Essentially, he is calling his wife a liar publicly while the court records are–obviously–readily available to expose the truth otherwise. Ick. Sounds like the dude has a long way to go.
Can anyone make out a date on that court document?
I just want to remind y’all that Saeed pled guilty in 2007 and was ordained in 2008. Whether this case was sealed or not, Saeed should have been up front and honest about it on his application for ordination. If he did tell the truth on the application, this does not speak well for the AEA.
Nancy2 wrote:
I was able to get a closer look at the date on my iPhone, and just under the finding of guilty, the date appears to be 01/25/2008.
Thanks, Deb.
That means Saeed was ordained less than a year after the court date.
Adding this info sent by a reader who prefers to post with no identifiers.
The last name which must be typed into the Idaho Courts page https://www.idcourts.us/repository/start.do to find Saeed Abedini’s domestic violence case is:
Abedinigalangashi.
Evidently there was a name change for the family. The name change case info for the kids is available there too.
Thank you goes out to this reader.
@ Nancy2:
This needs to be looked into. I will try to do some leg work on this tomorrow.
Dee I just wanted to say thanks for what is done here concerning these issues. When all this gets sorted out I have a suggestion, there is a theology out there that says that we all basically have all things happen to us coming. I E God is so angry at us that He has every right to ordain things like the Holocaust, abuse, child abuse, suicide, the death of a child etc that we have it coming. We are inanimate objects (pots) and God is the Potter and can make broken pots or vessels of wrath and we all need to just suck it up. The real issue is that this is usually applied to women, children, and others, not in the professional class. If one is in the professional class of the apologetic then we need to not question their decisions, they are not accountable touch not God’s anointing or they are preaching the “gospel”.
This may make me a heretic but I cant imagine any true and loving all powerful Father setting His kids up for some horrid evil just to make a point or to prove some greater good. I appreciate all that is done I do hope the things in your family go well, I was in that boat for over twenty years.
Nancy2 wrote:
You are right, Nancy2. I can say that as a public school teacher, had this DV pleas shown up on a Criminal Background Check, I would not have been hired in the district. And that would go for anyone else applying for a job in that school district. Could it possibly be that the *world* has higher standards than the Evangelical church?
@ Divorce Minister:
He had the chance in the statement that was carefully crafted to admit there was a charge and that he pled guilty.
@ brian:
“This may make me a heretic but I cant imagine any true and loving all powerful Father setting His kids up for some horrid evil just to make a point or to prove some greater good”
+++++++++++++++++++
the concept of heretic is like the concept of driving a car. everyone slower than us is a moron. everyone faster than us is a maniac. the only decent drivers are those driving exactly like us.
we all are heretics to a variety of people. and who gives a flying fick.
are you kind? honest? give some kind of nod to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit? I really don’t think God is fussy.
@ Darlene:
“Could it possibly be that the *world* has higher standards than the Evangelical church?”
++++++++++++
good gracious yes.
so many kind, honest, compassionate, responsible people in so many places.
elastigirl wrote:
Not to get off topic, but excellent comment. I’ll remember this the next time I’m on the road.
I was just saying on Julie Anne’s new post about this story a few moments ago that these stories about domestic violence by a husband against a wife sure does bring out the misogynist looney tunes and the sexist, Bible quoting crack pots.
Julie Anne’s recent post on the matter attracted a few different, very hostile guys who clearly have issues with women. And these guys are claiming to be Christians, and they are quoting the Bible left and right.
There is most definitely a problem in Christendom with sexism.
Whether these guys are ‘real’ Christians or not can be debated, I guess, but they sure as heck think they are real Christians and anyone who believes accusations of abuse by a wife against her husband automatically is a godless feminist who hates all men.
Several days ago I commented that the “friend” who released Naghmeh’s private messages had betrayed her. Note, the leaker apparently kept their own identity anonymous. Even if the person who leaked the emails was not motivated by the rush of relaying salacious details, but felt they were trying to help, they were not a friend in my estimation.
This makes me wonder how to proceed if I found myself with a similar revelation from a friend or associate. If they were continuing to be abused and were unwilling/unable to deal with it, respecting their wishes and not doing anything seems to fall well short. If they tell someone of their plight are they not searching for help, and not just “pray for me” help?
@ brian:
Very interesting and very troubling.
Their theology also goes against the verses that talk about how God is no respecter of persons, how the rain falls on the just and the unjust, and the story Jesus told in Luke 13:3-5:.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+13%3A3-5&version=ESV
Bill M wrote:
Please note that I am not making an inference to Naghmeh here.
https://youtu.be/o0gBhE8aiuw
I posted this before and this man would be considered a bit liberal because he did not include color / race in there as I had learned. Not too much from the pulpit but it was very clear. We are utterly totally worthless and vile to God and He is just so angry and wrathful even after Jesus died it really was not enough for almost all of humanity. Now, of course, I don’t believe this anymore in my head but in my heart and my emotions, it is a constant war I must admit. You know when I first became a Christian there was this wonder and joy that just flowed out of my heart it was like an exciting adventure filled with great expectations. Well, I have repented of all that nonsense but I do miss it that new “feeling” of actually being loved by God. Now it’s more like stay anonymous and autonomous.
I’m currently reading Os Guinness’ latest book “Fool’s Talk: Revealing the Art of Christian Persuasion” and I came across this passage that is relevant, imo, to the case.
“Whatever we do and have done, whether right or wrong, is a matter of record and reality. Responsibly owning up to it therefore aligns us to reality and to truth in a way that liberates. And far from being weak or an act of surrender, confession is the expression of rare moral courage, for in confessing a person demonstrates the strength of character to go on record against himself or herself. Again the result of free confession is freedom”.
(Location 3516-3518 Kindle page 206)
How different that is from the hiding away, the prepared statement, the deflection of truth, the insinuation of the other party’s guilt and lack of personal accountability and responsibility.
As Guinness goes on to say a few pages later “As Christians we stand or fall, prosper or decline, by truth”.
@ Nancy2:
More like months. I would love to know what month he was ordained. I can only find the year.
Deb wrote:
Yes! Me, too. And, I’ll almost bet the AEA isn’t talking. I googled their president, Kerry L. Fink. About all I can find out about him is that he is a media exec. with 20 yrs. experience and he has an MBA – nothing about any training in Bible studies, counciling, or mission work.
Lydia wrote:
Agreed, Lydia. That makes it all that more disturbing that he did not.
@ Nancy2:
http://wordpress.aeaministries.org/aea-affiliated-ministries/
Some info on AEA.
@ Deb:
Here is info on AEA ordination requirements.
http://wordpress.aeaministries.org/requirements-for-credentials/
Bridget wrote:
Did anyone else notice that on the same AEA page listing these requirements is an article about Pastor Abedini … and just across the page these words “Background checks are made on all candidates …” ?!
Max, yes I noticed that, and under the Code of Conduct did you see in a section called Personal:
Personal
The minister shall realize that in the eyes of the world he is the ideal and representative of Christianity and that Christianity is judged by his action and conduct. His personal life must befit such responsibility.
http://site.themarriagebed.com/bible/what-the-bible-says/headship
Try this one. A counciling service affiliated with AEA! Sounds very much like Grudem, BHLH Strachan, and the CBMW. Sheesh! My opinion of the AEA is degrading by the hour.
Nancy2 wrote:
Yep, I would say they lean a little heavy on the complmentarian side! Consider this excerpt from AEA’s “The Marriage Bed” link that you provided: “I’m not a failure if my wife chooses not to follow what I say. That’s between her and God; it’s not my place to make her comply, and it’s not my place to take punitive measures.” At least they frown on “punitive measures”!
“I see submitting to my husband as submitting to any other authority”
From The Marriage Bed” under “Submission” category.
@ Nancy2:
Here we go… Another post topic!
Thank you Brad for finding this information, and the Deebs for posting it. I think it’s important, given the amount of deliberate uncertainty being spread about that all the available facts be put on the table.
Nancy2 wrote:
I suppose these eternally subordinate proponents start brain-washing “their girls” at a young age for them to get to the point where they make such statements. Submitting to “any other authority” can have drastic consequences in certain ministries, as TWW chronicles! In the Body of Christ, we are to respond with submissive faith, but not to the point of submitting to that which goes contrary to God’s Word … and a good case can be made in Scripture that these authoritarian boys have stretched the Word beyond its boundaries in this regard.
@ Deb:
All Readers
I left a message at the AEA asking for clarification of their vetting requirements. I specifically asked about background checks, whether they were aware of Saeed Abedini’s conviction and if, so, why did they think it was a good idea to send him out as a missionary.
I also plan to ask them about the number of houses churches that he is allegedly credited with starting (100) along with the vetting of his conversion story. (He was asked to be a suicide bomber.)
Once violence entered this picture, i believe that it is wise to carefully vet all aspects of his story.
@ Nancy2:
I’ve seen that “marriage bed” site recommended by Christians to other Christians with sexual marital problems on other sites the last few years, in threads on forums about marriage and relationships. It seems to be a popular “go to” site that some Christians advise others to use. It’s disturbing it takes a complementarian bent to the advice.
@ Dee:
I have an idea-maybe I should call Franklin G with my idea. They could say that the history of alleged training as suicide bomber which led to emotional turmoil resulted in PTSD (and perhaps it might have). Then they could say that his wife carelessly or even intentionally sets him off and he can’t help it that sometimes he gets a bit over the line. Because, they might say, it is all her fault. She should not do that to him.
Dee wrote:
Amen! I hope every pulpit search committee in America is listening in to this. The days are long past when you should just trust anybody who goes by the title of “pastor” … things are not always as they seem. Pray for discernment, while you also delve deeply into each candidate’s past. Also be aware that in some corners of Christendom, a “network” protects their own and a candidate’s references may not be completely honest when supporting the man you are considering. Go outside the listed references on a candidate’s application; talk to others connected with ministries and employment he was once in. Good Lord, the American church is a mess … but Praise God, there is still the true Church out there – it may not just be going to “church” these days.
Max wrote:
I was definitely raised from the time I was a kid to think of myself and relationships and marriage in terms like that, though I was brought up under a softer, kinder, warm and fuzzier variety of gender complementarianism.
Your comment reminded me of this story I saw a few weeks ago (yes, it starts young and early in some families):
Colorado school district pushes Christian ‘purity’ training for 11-year-old girls to find future husbands
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/colorado-school-district-pushes-christian-purity-training-for-11-year-old-girls-to-find-future-husbands/
Dee wrote:
I’ve seen about two news stories the last couple of years of missionaries who molest kids in the nations they’re sent to serve.
It makes me wonder how much these guys are vetted before being chosen / sent out.
This is just one story, but I’m pretty sure there was a similar one that happened about several months later:
Teen Missionary Accused of Raping Young Children at African Orphanage
http://crimefeed.com/2014/07/teen-missionary-rape-african-orphanage/
@ Daisy:
Whew! Now that’s disturbing, Daisy. My daughter has a friend who was told by her father that she could only marry a KJV-only Calvinist. She wouldn’t date, until her father found one for her through family connections in another state, and she married him promptly. Sick and wrong.
dee wrote:
I can see why.
“Abedinigalangashi” would be a nightmare for an English-speaker to pronounce, let alone spell. Like the actual proto-Farsi spelling of “Xerxes” from a history book on Salamis — I never could figure that one out.
Max wrote:
Patriarch-arranged marriage.
Tywin Lannister (Game of Thrones) would be proud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyh9w_AO3YE
okrapod wrote:
Hmmmm- this is beginning to sound more and more like the Ergun Caner fiasco. Wait…
Max wrote:
Some people who are preachers no longer hold the faith at all. There’s been more reports in the last few years of Christian preachers who lose their faith while working as a preacher, become atheists, but they feel trapped.
So, they keep pretending to believe in God and the Bible while working as a preacher. Some of them do leave. Eventually, a network was created for them to help them transition.
Aside from guys who abuse their wives or children, you have stuff like that going on, too.
From Bible-Belt Pastor to Atheist Leader
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/magazine/from-bible-belt-pastor-to-atheist-leader.html?_r=0
I guess it goes to show that there are some guys working as preachers who are not qualified, for various reasons. They shouldn’t be in the pulpit or have the title of preacher.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
It is almost as bad as trying to pronounce this volcano in Iceland. Eyjafjallajökull
Max wrote:
That is horrible and so legalistic. And a marriage is not going to necessarily last because both people in the marriage are KJV Only Calvinists.
I find that to be a strange combination, btw. Many of the KJV Onlys I used to talk to years ago pretty much despised Calvinism. So I’m surprised there is such a thing as a KJVO Calvinist.
Dee wrote:
Well, that tops Ergun Caner’s Testimony…
Snippet from Washing Post article:
“And Naghmeh will likely have to do so without the help of her high-profile friends, some of whom have distanced themselves from her. She also may face of suspicion from many of her former faith-based supporters, domestic abuse experts say.”
@ Nancy2:
Here’s the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/01/the-strange-case-of-the-pastor-released-from-iran-and-his-wifes-abuse-allegations/
Daisy wrote:
Ever heard of “Our Duty to The Party”?
And that idea (that Theological Purity or “Common SCRIPTURAL Values(TM)”) is ALL that matters in a marriage is more widespread than you think. Christian foreplay: stand apart and recite SCRIPTURE(TM) or Theology to each other, then Do Our Duty for the 200-Year Plan.
dee wrote:
That name’s Old Norse.
I’m not even gonna try.
Muff Potter wrote:
“And for that reason God’s Name has become a laughingstock among the Heathen.”
— somewhere in the Bible (from memory)
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
There’s a variation to that I’ve heard by Christian marriage speakers, that the only thing two people need for a marriage to work is a belief in Jesus Christ. I disagree with that belief.
Then you get the preachers who spin off that to say a marriage can work just dandy if the Christian couple think of their relationship in terms of a triangle, where Jesus is at the top of the triangle and the couple are below, parallel to one another.
I read an interview with a marriage counselor about divorce a couple of years ago. He said he had more success with his atheist clients, because they actually worked on their marital problems.
His Christian clients, however, believed that just having faith in Jesus or reading their Bible together would be the magic fix-it glue that would keep their marriage together. Which isn’t the case.
He said you have to work on your marriage, not just have this vague trust in Jesus that Jesus will fix things.
Max wrote:
That has all the earmarks of the Gothard/Quiverfull movement.
dee wrote:
Please see the picture on this page:
How Saeid Mohammadpourkarkaragh got his name
http://swagct.com/s/916
🙂
Muff Potter wrote:
Whilst out the other sides of their mouths, they shout out Hebrews 13:17 – “Obey them that have the rule over you and submit ……..!”
I put together a procedure for accessing court cases relevant to this situation. Hopefully this will be of help for those wanting to do research themselves.
FOR THE LISTING OF THE 2016 “DOMESTIC RELATIONS” COURT CASE:
Step #1. Link to the IDAHO REPOSITORY for court cases. The main page gives you information about the Idaho Repository, how it works, what details are/aren’t available, etc. (Don’t skip this step — it’s important background about their online system.)
https://www.idcourts.us/repository/start.do
Step #2. On the left-hand side of that main page, click on NAME SEARCH. That will take you to the search page:
https://www.idcourts.us/repository/partySearch.do
Step #3. Fill in names [Saeed Abedini] or [Naghmeh Panahi] and hit ENTER.
Step #4. Then you have to enter in text to prove you’re not a robot, and it will take you to the page with cases for the person you’re searching for.
Step #5. If there are multiple cases, the most current one is at the top of the page. Click on the option for “Case History with ROAs” in order to have the line-items listed.
FOR THE LISTING OF THE 2007 “DOMESTIC ASSAULT” COURT CASE:
Use the same process as above. When you get to Step #3, NAME SEARCH, fill in [Saeed Abedinigalangashi].
@ Nancy2:
Thanks for that link
Daisy wrote:
“Old” Calvinists prefer the KJV; especially those in the fundamentalist, independent Baptist groups who still talk and pray in “Thee” and “Thou” phrases. “New” Calvinists, on the other hand, are an ESV-only bunch.
Max wrote:
Now if we can get the Old Calvinists and New Calvinists to turn on each other as Heretics…
@ Max:
I’ll take your word for it. It’s just that a lot of the KJV Only guys (who were usually IFB) I used to talk to didn’t care for Calvinism.
Max wrote:
Of course, the really old Calvinists preferred the Geneva Bible, which preceded the KJV by 50 years … but later Calvinists in the independent Baptist ranks selected that sword until the ESV came along. The ESV Study Bible is the one the New Calvinist pastors carry; it contains lots of Calvinist commentary, including notes by JC himself (not Jesus Christ … John Calvin).
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Like Z – zerk-zees (or some such). I betcha this is sa Greek thing, though, givdn the Xs.
As with the Greek name Xenophon. Or the wo3d xenophobia.
brian wrote:
Here’s some clobber verses fer’ ya’:
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
So siddown, quitcher’ whinin’ an’ shaddup!
@ Daisy:
Actually, there are forms of Calvinistic structure/ interpretation in much of Protestantism. I was shocked, too.
@ Max:
“we are to respond with submissive faith, but not to the point of submitting to that which goes contrary to God’s Word”
++++++++++++++++++++++++
or how about what is contrary to common sense?
for people who do this submitting-their-personal-agency-to-another-human-being thing (both the submitter and the ‘higher up’), do they feel a sense of grating against their common sense? but attribute the feeling to “well, of course <I?his-ways-are-not-our-ways is going to feel a bit different/odd”, “this must be what being in the world but not of the world is like”, bolstered by “after all, we are a peculiar people”?
elastigirl wrote:
Agreed, Christians should not be so open-minded that their brains fall out.
@ Nancy2:
Thanks Nancy2 for the Washington Post link. Interesting that a secular publication points out what the church ought to know! How many times have we seen the following play out in the watchblogs in regard to abuser/victim counseling in “church”? From the WP article:
” … faith can be a roadblock to getting assistance for victims of abuse. Victims are sometimes pressured to forgive their abuser early on in the process … But forgiveness, if given too early, can do more harm than good … When we talk about the problem of forgiveness — is what a church expects as the first step of dealing with a case of abuse … I always tell people it is the last step — there are a lot of things that need to happen before that step can happen” (Marie Fortune, Faith Trust Institute).
Just a thought
Unlike the other abusers in this country and reprobates like Josh Duggar, don’t you at least thing that Saeed had time to think in Iran and his abuse by those done to him in Iran and that Abedini got some sense of justice with his time in Iran. I mean, justice will never be perfect in this age and at times God does use other elements to judge. Look at Babylon and also Rome on Israelic leaders who taking advantage of widows (Isaiah 10:1-2, Matthew 23). This country still has leaders that exploit their flock mooney and physically. If they don’t take it serious and implement review boards at the state level as Crista Brown has requested, God will indeed use other instruments to judge. He may be able to use our justice system still in dealing with current wayward clergy in the country but I am not holding my breath. especially when I see nothing done to the former Baptist and possible first husband of Hillary and seeing his abuse that he has done in the past.
Signed
Jaded but still hopeful
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
“Well, that tops Ergun Caner’s Testimony…”
+++++++++
maybe that’s what this is all about. filling the void that ergun caner left in the business plan & marketing strategy of that shadowy entity ‘the Christian industrial complex’.
@ Nancy2:
““And Naghmeh will likely have to do so without the help of her high-profile friends, some of whom have distanced themselves from her. She also may face of suspicion from many of her former faith-based supporters, domestic abuse experts say.”
+++++++++++++
she needs better friends.
what a pathetic religion this has turned out to be.
I think Jesus agrees with me.
@ Max:
“Agreed, Christians should not be so open-minded that their brains fall out.”
++++++++++
or so close-minded that their brains are sucked inside-out like a paper cup.
elastigirl wrote:
Plus One-Upmanship.
CAN YOU TOP THIS?
@ elastigirl:
Here’s what Katharine Bushnell said almost a century ago. Long before the claptrap promulgated by a fundagelicalism not much older than 40-45 years:
If we find even in the Bible anything which confuses our sense of right and wrong,
that seems to us less exalted and pure than the character of God should be:
if after the most patient thought and prayerful pondering it still retains that aspect,
then we must not bow down to it as God’s revelation to us, since it does not meet the
need of the earlier and more sacred revelation He has given us in our spirit and
conscience which testify of him.
Amen and Amen!
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
The surname incorporates the region he comes from -Galan and that probably explains why he is supposed to be setting up an orphanage in Rasht, which is the biggest city in Galan province.
elastigirl wrote:
or how about what is contrary to common sense?
I was just thinking the other day about how, for all the emphasis the Bible puts on the value of wisdom, certain Christian pastors and their fans tell people to do very unwise things indeed. Sigh.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
The surname incorporates the region he comes from -Galan- and that probably explains why he is supposed to be setting up an orphanage in Rasht, which is the biggest city in Galan province.
“There are two sides to every story.” = The Abuser’s Mantra.
elastigirl wrote:
Real friends………friends that don’t judge her on her ability to role play.
@ Lowlandseer:
Thanks for this! It’s pretty straightforward as long as one works through the syllables, too (imo, anyway).
So there are two sides to every story? Are there two sides to the story as to why Saeed was in prison; does Iran have a side which we must consider before ‘taking sides’ with Saeed in the matter? Or are there only two sides if somebody claims abuse, especially if the accused is an evangelical icon?
I think that indeed there are two sides to every story, but by no means are the sides necessarily equal. That is what investigations are for. In the meantime, if we are to doubt her we must also doubt him in order to be fair and equal to the two sides theory.
okrapod wrote:
Ha, good point, okrapod! I don’t recall FG saying, “there’s two sides to every story” when certain people were insisting on and working towards the release of the prisoners!
Nancy2 wrote:
…And friends that can keep their pieholes shut when trusted with stuff told to them in confidence…
Muff Potter wrote:
Are you sayin’ that some of those people have cracked top crusts?
elastigirl wrote:
Therein lies the problem. It’s never really been about “religion”, but relationship with Christ. Jesus advised us not to forsake the commandments of God for the teachings and traditions of men (= religion). Two thousand years later, we’ve done fine job dodging the plan Jesus had for His Church. I hope I live long enough to see organized religion’s funeral preached!
And, yes, Jesus agrees with you.
I’ve seen Franklin Graham come up a time or two in some of these discussions (either here or on Julie Ann’s blog) in relation to the story about Naghmeh, so I thought this may be of interest to some of you:
Franklin Graham wants to be the next Billy Graham. He’s not even close
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2016/02/franklin_graham_wants_to_be_the_next_billy_graham_he_s_not_even_close.html
Max wrote:
On the other hand, at the time of Jesus and back to Moses, some of the commandments of God did have to do with the practice of religion. I always heard it preached that Jesus meant the traditions of men (aimed at the Pharisees) when those traditions conflicted with or added to the Mosaic law. He did after all tell the people to do what the Pharisees taught ‘because they sit in Moses’ seat’ but don’t do what they do.
@ Muff Potter:
Yes!
@ Max:
Max, that same quote jumped out at me.
Is there some way that can be enlarged?
Darlene, on my hp laptop if you hold down the “control” key and while holding it down scroll forward and back with the middle dial on a mouse, you can make anything bigger or smaller.
@ Muff Potter:
Amen! And now you know why some Scriptural interpretations by New Calvinists (or other authoritarian church leaders) don’t ring true to you! They don’t come alongside the Holy Spirit’s revelation to you which was sent to lead ‘you’ into truth.
I’ve been busy out/about lately and come back here to find that you have been wildly busier! Wow!
Naghmeh (if you are reading), you are impressive for doing the right thing against all kinds of pressure. I hope you have good supportive friends for your daily life.
Dee, please take good care of yourself?! A cliche comes to mind, about the first oxygen bag on the airplane.
I am so very grateful for all of you wonderful people who take action on behalf of abused people, no matter where/who/when.
Uncle Dad wrote:
Absolutely. I don’t think that can be said enough.
It (or variations of it) comes up a billion times on every blog discussion I’ve seen about it by detractors.
Daisy wrote:
Sounds like Famous Father Syndrome crossed with Anticlimax.
Bill M wrote:
They also bring out those of us who tend to read more but don’t post so much. 🙂
Max wrote:
Problem is “It’s Not a Religion, It’s a RELATIONSHIP” has become just another Evangelical Buzzword, or a clobber verse for a Jesus Juke slapdown.
Nancy2 wrote:
Exactly! Nobody who continues to support him comes out well from this.
Forrest wrote:
Then some good has come of it 🙂
Divorce Minister wrote:
Perhaps Saeed is using the ‘strictly-literal’ defense? Naghmeh apologized for misleading people in her posts and reports, right? Maybe his accusation of her untruthfulness is accurate only in that she didn’t tell the truth about his experiences in prison. (Never mind that what she said was under threat by him and his situation).
So perhaps he’s turning the tables on her for his own benefit. Plus, I could easily see his supporting bozos saying that if she lied there, who can believe anything she says?
Maybe, I don’t know—it is something my abusive father would have done.
Haitch wrote:
Agreed!
Now, just to break the tension, I have a cornbread update. My daughter has been married for 8 years. Her husband (army brat whose family is from Utah) has always claimed that he does not like cornbread and has persistently refused to eat the stuff. I did deliver the acquired cast iron cornbread skillet to her ~~ the skillet that is divided into 8 wedges. She made cornbread last night and her husband ate 6 of the 8 wedges.
I think we have another convert.
Patrice wrote:
AN anti-Naghmeh commentor on SSB claimed that Naghmeh said in one report that she talked with Saeed on the phone for 8 hours at a time, and that there is no way that could be possible. If she did say that – and I stress “if” -, she could have very easily just been overwhelmed and confused and simply spoke in error without even realizing what she had said. Something like that would have opened the door for Saeed’s claims.
Nancy2 wrote:
Heh, you’ve cracked me up Nancy !
@ Max:
“Where unbelievers fend off the truth as a deliberate action of their unbelief, we as believers should pursue and adhere to the truth as the deliberate action of our faith. After all, Jesus calls his followers to himself and to a way of life, and not first to a creed or a set of beliefs.”
(Os Guinness: Fool’s Talk:Recovering the Art of Christian Persuasion,p206)
Apologies for quoting the book again but it is very,very good.
Patrice wrote:
That anything like the “Plain Reading of Scripture” a la Ken Ham & Hal Lindsay?
Nancy2 wrote:
i.e. When it didn’t Advance The Agenda.
Divorce Minister wrote:
This type of statement is always an easy one to make because it does not define how much “much” is, or which parts are true and not true, or which media reports or posts contain the supposed “untruth.” At the same time, it seeks to undermine those parts which even this speaker admits are true. Therefore, I see this type of statement as a dishonest statement (when anyone does it, not just Saeed), it is a statement designed to persuade without committing to anything concrete. If it’s being used to ‘save face’ I think it’s a mistake.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I heard that a lot as a child, just not related to the particular statement of Jesus that Max noted. Whenever I heard it the thing was always about some catholic behavior which could not be condemned some other way other than identifying it as part of ‘religion’ and therefore to be avoided and condemned. Even as a child I thought it strange that our behaviors were not ‘religion’ but theirs were. I also thought it strange that one could not have both ‘religion’ and relationship, but I never got an explanation for that.
And of course there was Jesus who was a religious man, went to synagogue ‘as was his custom’ and let himself be called rabbi. I am thinking that this all comes down to definitions.
Nancy2 wrote:
I like the corner pieces, that get crispy crunchy on the edges more. (At least, that is how it ends up in the sort of cookware my family uses for cornbread.)
@ Nancy2:
That must be the same guy there who got hung up on the minutia of how cell phone reception works, how or if people in Iran can get naughty site reception on cell phones there, etc.
Some of these guys are really going all out to discredit Naghmeh as much as they can. It’s weird (and sad).
It reminds me a little of an online friend I had a long time ago who was a conspiracy theory buff, she was especially into 9/11 theories. Her favorite sites had all sorts of nit picky details about how or why steel cannot supposedly melt at certain temperatures, or how jet fuel on fire cannot melt metal, or whatever.
Nancy2 wrote:
@ Patriciamc:
My “excellent” comment got all jumbled in the quote. Probably operator error.
Max wrote:
Part of this is elevating Paul to the level of God, which would horrify Paul.
Daisy wrote:
Daisy I want to tackle this topic at my blog. Its on the list of a million things to do. But evangelicals sometime box themselves in that they have no out. The all or nothing mentality is toxic. On so many levels. Thanks for this article…I did not see it in my faith crisis, I am going to work this into a post. I’m up to my eyeballs in material already.
Great Caesar’s Ghost! I didn’t know Dee and Brad got up a post on Sunday!
Good job guys!
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend? 😉 Is that where you are going with this HUG?
Eagle wrote:
Oh, hey, there are many more like that one I linked to.
That topic (of preachers secretly losing their faith and turning agnostic / atheist) was a sort of “theme” that the media began covering, I don’t know, about a year or 2 ago?
If you go to google and type in something like “preacher now an atheist,” or some phrase like that, you will find a lot more articles.
Some of the articles are by Christians, some by atheists, some are by news sites.
I don’t know if you’d find this somewhat related article helpful or interesting:
Advice For Anyone Who Has Ever Doubted Their Religion
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-liturgists-podcast-doubt-in-christianity_us_56a8f349e4b0947efb66273e?
Daisy wrote:
These skillets I’m talking about are specifically made for cornbread. They are 10″ round skillets with dividers built in, all cast iron. That means every serving of cornbread has 3 corners, as well as 3 nice, crusty sides! Ummm ummm. They don’t fall apart when you split them open and slather on the butter, and they crumble into beans and buttermilk without completely falling apart! Perfect!
Patriciamc wrote:
Today I informed several drivers that they’re heretics. It’s my Christian duty to speak the truth with love.
@ Eagle:
P.S. Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my post to you above.
I don’t know if she has any stories of preachers turning atheist or agnostic in her book, but I do recall in the book “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin, she does have an interview with a guy who was a preacher whose outlook changed a lot to the point he (IIRC) quit the ministry to go into ‘secular’ work.
I think that preacher in her book still believes in God, but he no longer believes in some of the same things he did while he was a -either an evangelical or Reformed- I can’t recall which- preacher.
His views on how to interpret the Bible changed, among other things.
That may be a book you want to read too. It also has good chapters on why women and the unmarried are leaving churches in droves.
Patriciamc wrote:
Wonder what God thinks about it???
@ Nancy2:
O, yum yum yum. 🙂
I wish the evangelical community would stop and think about whether or not the Christian celebrities they idolize are really the people that they think they are. Just because Christian marketing promotes a person one way doesn’t really mean they’re like that. The Franklin Graham supporters seem to fall for this, my relatives included. Sometimes, my natural cynicism is an advantage.
Nancy2 wrote:
Really!
Daisy wrote:
I can see how many evangelical seminaries box people so that there is only one correct way to think about something, one correct way to interpret the Bible, etc. So, when people actually think about things, they can form doubts and believe that they’re doubting Christianity itself while true Christianity actually allows for questions and allows for examining new viewpoints. Nonbelievers, in the meantime, see seminary students and ministers leaving the faith and assume it’s the faith that’s wrong.
Daisy wrote:
Isn’t Colo Spgs Christianese Culture War Central as well as the Air Force Academy?
Patriciamc wrote:
Someone famous once asked, “Where else can they go?”
On vetting/calling to foreign missions involving children
Should someone who is involved in pornography be called to be a pastor/receivor of money in foreign mission/ involved with children?
If it’s true that Saeed is involved in pornograhy I don’t think he should be involved in ministry nor in setting up an orphanage. Think back to Voice of the Martyrs head. I found out that they haven’t and don’t vet/ or do a background check on their staff or volunteers.
check this out: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/seminary-student-allegedly-planned-sex-baby-mexico-article-1.2515560
In my humble opinion I would like to suggest that some of you may be going into cornbread withdrawal. I am noting this preoccupation with the subject and this fantasizing how good it tastes and how many uses it has and how to make it. Maybe you all need to go get a cornbread fix and feel better?
okrapod wrote:
What!!! No 12 step program???
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
My name for same. It’s a strange mindset—living by prosaic precision rather than by heart/mind/strength cooperation. It doesn’t allow room for curiosity or imagination, which disables empathy.
I have a brother like this. He constantly “won” childhood battles via literal ‘gotchas’. He is now a banker at one of the too-big-to-fails. Also a staunch complementarian Calvinist. He still can’t believe I could be intelligent because I am female. He has honestly struggled with that for decades lol
Daisy wrote:
Yup. I knew some in our old legalistic church, years ago. But our church was not conservative enough for them. The pastor wasn’t KJVO, for one thing, and most of the women didn’t wear head coverings, and they were uncomfortable with the piano/organ accompaniment. Eventually they left for another, more conservative calvinist church.
Nancy2 wrote:
I certainly wouldn’t have been able to keep everything straight while under that much stress, plus endless touring/speaking and writing, plus caring for two children.
But it’s also possible that she sometimes did talk to him all day long. After all, Saeed was jailed for 3 1/2 years’ worth of days.
A rational person wouldn’t assume that, every single day, she spent 6-8 hrs on the phone with him and also had 20-hr praying sessions. Unless they wanted to discount her story by picayune literalism. :eyeroll:
Lowlandseer wrote:
I love this quote. Isn’t it amazingly appropos to how we came to know Christ in the first place? Even after admitting we are sinners and accepting his death in our place, human nature wants to return to covering up mode.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Yes, it is.
Patriciamc wrote:
Yep, Paul gets more press than Jesus in New Calvinist churches. They cherry-pick verses from Paul’s epistles to defend reformed theology. I’ve told the young whippersnappers that they need to read the Gospels and try to get their heads back where they should be. If you read Paul first, you might read Jesus wrong. But if you read Jesus first (the Gospels), the writings of Paul come into perspective. Yes, Paul would be horrified at the way the New Calvinists have twisted his words.
Daisy wrote:
I have to admit in my mind I’m picturing these same sorts of loonies attacking Naghmeh’s credibility.
I’m also beginning to wonder if the bombshell Naghmeh dropped on the Christian world may be only the tip of the iceberg?
And what if the friend betrayed her confidence because she was fearful for her?
@ Lowlandseer:
Amen!
I have a couple of thoughts here. First, why is it that a lot of people when they become Christians immediately go into ministry? Some feel called by God, or some call themselves. Wouldn’t it be better for the new christians to study the Bible and go to Bible studies, etc. so they can learn how to be a minister. Not everyone is called like Saul in the Bible when he became Paul. I am not saying that seminaries are the thing everyone has to go to to become a minister, but at least get a bit of training and help somewhere. You can be just as big of witness for God being in the secular world. Secondly, I don’t know the Irani culture, but maybe they think it’s ok to abuse their wives. If this is so, then of course Saeed is saying that she is lying. It wasn’t abuse in the way he was brought up. Even though he has been out of the country for a long time, we all know that what we learn while growing up stays with us a long time. (Dee, feel free to delete this post if it is totally off the wall). Still on pain pills for my foot.
Over at Michael Newnham’s blog there is a Calvary Chapel pastor, one Steve Wright, who claims that there was no alledged ‘leak’ by trusted confidants and that Nahgmeh spread their marital dirt around the electronic world all by herself with a massive e-mail campaign. Here is what Mr. Wright wrote:
================================================================================
She initially just spoke out to friends, and then it was leaked.
———————————–
I guess I do need to repeat myself once more….
She initially spoke to a massive mailing email list (too big for her regular email and thus the need for a google group)…I was on it. Once and for all the idea that she confided in a couple of friends needs to end. She told hundreds to thousands of people her husband watched porn, out of the blue, along with the rest of the bombshell that sounded like it was written by another person.
I don’t “feel” duped…I was duped. For 14 months specifically…and in turn I duped others.
All that is left is if she lied then or is lying now…and depending on the answer, the motive will likewise change as will the explanation…Maybe ACLJ put a proverbial gun to her head and that is why she wrote us the lies she did. If so, the world (and the attorney general) need to know that.
====================================================================================
The above is Wright’s comment on a thread at Newnham’s blog, it’s number 31, here’s the link:
http://michaelnewnham.com/?p=24535#comments
Harley wrote:
Actually, I believe Paul went away for some years after conversion before he went I to public ministry.
Harley wrote:
IIRC, Saeed hasn’t really spent that much time outside of Iran. I think Saeed and Naghmeh were married in Iran in ’04. (I think her parents went back to Iran to do mission work?). I think they moved to the U.S. in 2005, and I think Saeed made 9 trips to Iran between 2005 and 2012 – don’t know how long he stayed each time.
I hope you feel well enough not to need the pain pills soon, Harley.
Bridget wrote:
And Jesus spent 3 years teaching the other apostles!
@ Muff Potter:
Whether her commentary was to a handful of friends on an e-mail list or a couple of hundred people, it doesn’t change my opinion of the situation.
She was being abused by her spouse.
I don’t know why these people get hung up on if, when, or how she shared that knowledge.
I swear 90% of Christians are more concerned with appearances, than in the truth, and in helping people – and that needs to stop.
@ Muff Potter:
By the way, I think that was the same blog I went to a few days ago. One guy there was a total jerk. I think I told him to get bent. I got fed up and left.
@ Muff Potter:
Calvary Chapel pastor, eh?
@ Lyds & Daisy:
It’s no secret that the clientele at Newnham’s blog lean fundagelical, so I’m not surprised that one of their own would jump in swinging to protect his brand-name. The Abedinis were after all, devout Calvary Chapelites of Boise Idaho. It’s just that the truth about the leak is out there. Maybe Scully and Mulder could help?
Someone sent me an “update” article from CT that reported the wife’s allegations of abuse. But the story did not include a reference to the guilty plea. It would be good if someone sent them the record of this guilty plea so they can update the update.
Muff Potter wrote:
Calvary Chapel.
The ONLY Real True Christians(TM) in the entire universe.
Why am I not surprised?
Muff Potter wrote:
Again, why am I not surprised?
I have always gotten a bad vibe about Calvary Chapel. Like they distill down and concentrate all that can go sour with a church.
Nancy2 wrote:
Oh yes, the neo-cal pope, the one who fired people at his seminary because they didn’t believe in Calvinism. What a guy.
Hello Numo
I’ve looked at his full name again and I realised that گالانگاشی in Arabic is “KalanKashi” not “Galangashi”. There is a village called KalanKashi further to the west of Galan province so it it be this is where the family originated from. Doesn’t really add anything to the discussion but I was curious about the name.
One other question. In order for Abedini to set up an orphanage in Iran,would he not have been required to obtain an OFAC licence from the US Treasury Department? I ask this because Moms Against Poverty had to get one so that they could set up orphanages in that country. You can read about them here:
http://momsagainstpoverty.org/services/iran/
@ Anonymous:
You mean do their jobs for them? They are probably worried about advertisers if they report too much.
I’ve just come across the Calvary Chapel version of events relating to Saeed Abedini. According to this version, (http://www.calvarymagazine.org/images/stories/PDFs/Issue_33/Out_of_Islam_33.pdf) he was recruited by Hezbollah and was going to kill a Christian pastor before killing himself. This is at odds with his claims to have been trained as a suicide bomber. (http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/saeed-abedini-wife-naghmeh-pastor-why-in-prison-children-iran-prisoners-released/).
The facts are quite straightforward. Hezbollah isn’t in the habit of recruiting in Iran. They do so in conflict zones, most notably in Lebanon., and even then only when there is a need and if action is required urgently. (http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a545234.pdf). They are of course seen as Iran’s proxy but in-country recruitment would be at the hands of the Revolutionary Guards or the Basij (http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/basij-resistance-force).
In my opinion, It’s not just the AEA who have been gullible in their dealings with this man.
Harley wrote:
Paul waited fourteen years after his conversion to begin his public ministry.
To give you some context. Between 1980 and 2003 Hzbollah carried out a total of 36 suicide attacks. (Robert Pape, Dying to Win: Why Suicide Terrorists Do It, Appendix1, p231).
New post up at Spiritual Sounding Board that takes a look at the processes in “Vetting, Accountability, Licensing, and Promoting for Pastor Saeed Abedini: Exploring What Went Wrong and How.”
http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/02/02/vetting-accountability-licensing-and-promoting-for-pastor-saeed-abedini-exploring-what-went-wrong-and-how/
Pingback: She Said He Said: Naghmeh and Saeed Abedini | GiveMe Chocolate
brad/futuristguy wrote:
Wow! 😀 I had no idea! I couldn’t get in because it said the case was sealed!!! How did you get in?
@ XianJaneway:
Never mind, Brad, I saw your comment!
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I have, too…..
@ Lowlandseer:
I have lots of questions about his story. Perhaps they are true but I will never forget Ergun Caner and his lies. Christians love the stories of converted suicide bombers and jihadist.
It used to be “I was a heroin addict and a witch but I found Jesus.” It has been replaced by “I was a terrorist.” Christians should vet all of these “really cool stories.”
One comment not approved.
dee wrote:
The darnedest lies I’ve ever heard have come from the pulpit. In fact, in my aspiring pastor/paid church staffer/public speaking evangelist days, I used to tell them also. I never checked facts, didn’t want to, because if the story illustrated my point and induced tears in the audience (or in me as I blubbered in front of the audience–not out of awe for Jesus, but out of awe for my own eloquence and general all-round wonderfulness), that was what I wanted. Some stories were just too good to check out. What a full blown liar I was!
@ Muff Potter:
Marital *dirt?* Women should not spread around abuse and instead keep it quiet like good little girls married to missionaries affiliated with Calvary Chapel.
Hmmm-Calvary Chapel has their own baggage and they best be careful of pointing fingers since fingers are pointing right back at them.
@ Harley:
Thoughtful comment, Harley. Sorry about the foot.
Sometimes we are assuming that they want to be pastors to serve others. What if, deep down inside, they want to make money and have little accountability? Saeed is on his way to make bucks on the conference circuit and Naghmeh is screwing things up.
BC wrote:
That story made me sick. There are some real creeps who work their way into the church of trusting people.
Uncle Dad wrote:
Darn straight!
Jaded wrote:
You are assuming that Saeed equates his abuse of his wife with the abuse he suffered in prison. Abusers do not think that way. Naghmeh is to serve him and if she doesn’t do what he wants, she is *abusing* him. She is in the same positions of those who imprisoned him. They are all against him.
@ Daisy:
That made me laugh. A couple of times Lily the pug jumped on my computer and the screen filled with gobbledygook.
dee wrote:
There’s a lot of money at stake, not just for Saeed, but for other Christian celebs and publishing houses, as well as the conferences themselves: legit NYT bestseller book deals, perhaps co-written (or ghosted) between current church glitterati and Saeed, sold out conferences with top dollar ticket prices around the country, movie rights–a lot of people stand to gain a lot of prominence, influence and money from a story like Saeed’s. People with political aspirations (Franklin Graham, possibly?) or seeking political influence could ride a story like Saeed’s quite far.
A great deal at stake, a lot of forces likely to try to do whatever it takes, perhaps even crack a few ex-wife eggs, to make it happen. It is possible that we may be hearing soon from several sources stories about another “bat $#!* crazy” ex-wife.
@ dee:
I’m about as welcome at Newnham’s blog as a turd in a swimmin’ pool. I only reported what I saw.
dee wrote:
dee wrote:
I have a grey cat who likes to jump up to watch me type. It has led too some rather….original spellings.
Law Prof wrote:
And one Uppity WOMAN stands in the way.
Righteous Causes have dealt with Uppity Obstacles in the past.
Causes so Righteous they justify anything whatsoever to bring them to Victory.
That’s why I wonder if Naghmeh’s life might be in danger.
Law Prof wrote:
How do they compare to a wartime country’s mass media the day before that country loses the war?
(Example from Eighties military-affairs expert James Dunnigan.)
dee wrote:
“Really Cool Stories”.
Can-You-Top-This JUICY and EXCITING Testimonies.
How do you think the Church Ladies get their fix of Vicarious SIN SIN SIN and still stay RESPECTABLE(TM)?
@ Law Prof:
“There’s a lot of money at stake, not just for Saeed, but for other Christian celebs and publishing houses, as well as the conferences themselves: …
A great deal at stake, a lot of forces likely to try to do whatever it takes, perhaps even crack a few ex-wife eggs, to make it happen. It is possible that we may be hearing soon from several sources stories about another “bat $#!* crazy” ex-wife.”
++++++++++++++++++++
I hope Boz Tchividjian (& others with clout and influence who have their heads screwed on right) will be in Naghmeh’s corner to speak truth to power (if necessary, to his relative).
I sure wish it was popular to speak for free & write books at cost, or to use it as a vehicle to raise money for a very needy cause and donate ALL of it.
wealth is too tantalizing & tempting, it seems.
so disappointed in what this silly religion has become. jesus agrees with me.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/02/nagmeh-abedini-franklin-graham-and-the-silencing-of-evangelical-abuse-victims.html?ref_widget=trending&ref_blog=friendlyatheist&ref_post=speaking-engagements
Libby Anne made some good points here!
Here’s the link and introduction to my latest blog post, which reflects some of the thinking I’ve been doing about specific “indicators” for vetting, background checks, and system evaluations. We need these to discern who and what deserves our trust (or doesn’t). That’s certainly become an issue here, with so many individuals and organizations either claiming some territory in this situation or previously being involved but have now silently slipped out.
https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2016/02/04/project-update-15-indicators-for-discerning-robust-versus-hazardous-systems/
elastigirl wrote:
I attended the funeral of a local gentleman who never had much of any faith in anything. He died, at the age of 87, of injuries received whilst delivering delivering Meals On Wheels to the elderly. Because, you see, he could get out & he liked helping people…..
Kinda makes you rethink the whole way you look at the world, you know?
@ zooey111:
“Kinda makes you rethink the whole way you look at the world, you know?”
++++++++++++++
yes. quite a realization for me when I acknowledged what I had been seeing for a long time: the best human beings I have ever known (kind, honest, generous, sincere, compassionate, giving of themselves) are my muslim friend and my atheist friend.
@ elastigirl:
I hear you. Kindness and decency seem to be found in people of all religions, and none. I’ve met far nicer people who are not professed xtians (of any kind) than I did in churches, for the most part. (I knew some lovely people there, too, but we all had a judgmental streak when it came to “unbelievers.” Enough said!)
Idaho Statesman article of February 4, 2016, by John Sowell: “Abedini domestic violence incident in 2007 triggered by laptop argument.”
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article58590133.html
So she shut down down his laptop and tried prevent him from having communication with his family. This would be considered abuse if the genders were reversed. The only question is whether he shoved her which he denied.
Jerry
Wow- he denited shoving her. Case closed.
Jerry wrote:
You left some information out of that article.
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dee wrote:
Ergun wasn’t the first guy to seriously pad his resume and he won’t be the last.
I know this is late, but thank you two so much for reporting on this and for standing up for Naghmeh and for women in general. The way the evangelical mainstream has treated this whole Abedini debacle really shows how little it cares about abused women and it has shaken my faith to the core. I am going through a crisis of faith right now, and even if I end up remaining a Christian, my beliefs will have to substantially realign themselves so that I can’t say that Franklin Graham and all those who would promote a woman only when she advocates for a man are the truest representation of my faith. People like you make me want to stay in Christianity.
Jerry wrote:
It would maybe depend if it was a recurrent action on her part.
If it was a one-time event in which she was frustrated because she couldn’t get his attention, and/or she was trying to intimidate him and control him, maybe not.
Abuse is an on-going pattern of behavior, where the abuser is trying to control the target.
Daisy wrote:
Oh, I worded that weirdly.
I mean, I doubt Naghmeh was trying to intimidate him or scare him by closing his lap top. I worded it oddly there, though, in that last post.
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I don’t know if anyone has posted this elsewhere, but Saeed has broken his silence on his Facebook page and indicates things are not going well with his wife. He requests prayers for their marriage.
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2016/February/Saeed-Abedini-Asks-Followers-to-Pray-for-His-Marriage