One's dignity may be assaulted, vandalized and cruelly mocked, but it can never be taken away unless it is surrendered.” ― Michael J. Fox link
TWW will continue to post personal stories of former members of Calvary Temple on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We believe that the support our community can give to these folks will go a long way in their healing. In return, their stories also help all of us who have been involved with abusive churches to know that we are not alone. Tomorrow we plan to post a story about a Gospel™ Coalition member who is none to happy that blogs tell these stories of abuse. He calls us "weeping prophets."
It seems unbelievable, surreal, like something you might hear or read about in a distant place – but not here, not to you. You ask yourself:
- How could this happen?
- How could anyone be so cruel?
- Why didn’t we see the signs?
- How could we have be so fooled?
Such is the world we now live in, these are the questions we have asked ourselves time and again.
In 1969, we were sixteen year old friends who fell in love, laughed, dated, and accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior in a small close knit Assembly of God church in Herndon, Virginia. We ultimately were married there in 1972. Everything was perfect. We had very little, but we had each other and our friends, but most of all we had “Him” – Jesus Christ and “He” had us! Life was just awesome.
A charismatic youth minister with amazing stories: a star is born.
Then came 1973 and a charismatic youth minister from California. We were awed by his past raucous life of alcohol, sex and drugs as an unsaved youth, his story of finding Christ, and the sacrifices he had made to serve God;
- giving up a professional football career,
- losing his family, his college fund, his home
- and so much more;
He traded them in for the Gospel sake.
Oh, but the rewards were great – or so we were told. Prophetic words predicting his greatness in the Kingdom of God, rubbing elbows with some of the “elite” in the Assemblies of God, rising quickly as the most sought after youth minister in California, and yes – even raising the dead! But God had led him to Herndon, Virginia, and we were so impressed that within a year we would vote him in as our Senior Pastor.
Looking back now, knowing what we know now about Star Robert Scott Sr. There were signs, but we were too blinded by the “fame” and how fortunate we – a small group in the little town of Herndon – were to get such a man.
He begins a campaign to separate the inner circle from the wiser and older members.
Soon, older saints (especially women) – those with deep knowledge of God’s Word, strong in the faith and proven in character were subtly questioned, undermined, and over time driven out of the church, often without most members knowing or understanding how and why (the first evidence of controlling information). The younger members of the church were drawn to him, and he used that to form close personal relationships, select positions within the church structure, and share information forming an ‘Inner Circle.’ Even so, we were often torn in our thinking – confidence in trusted, proven pillars of the faith that were now in conflict with the “Shining Star” leading us to great things.
Building the empire-starting with the purchase of a school.
Opportunity came for us to purchase a private Christian school in a neighboring town. It meant selling the Herndon property – church and parsonage. The cost was significant and many questioned the viability of such a venture. Assurances from Star Scott that this was a great “money-maker” (another warning sign) helped to persuade some, but not all. In his attempt to persuade us (I was a deacon at the time), he tried to minimize the concerns by saying, “these are just nickel and dime people.” This, the flock God had called him to serve.
Another sign flashing brightly as to this man’s character, and though it did not go unheeded, we ultimately voted to sell the Herndon property and purchase the Triple Seven Christian School. However, research had been poor, if any at all, and as it turned out the cash cow of the school had been its Kindergarten which was all but eliminated because the year we purchased the school, the county opened kindergarten to the public for the first time. Most of the enrollment and tuition ceased.
He begins teaching questionable doctrine and the Fosters resign from the church, temporarily.
Around that same time Star Scott began to teach that there was no power in the name of Jesus. “It’s just another name,” he stated, “there is nothing special about that name.” Disillusioned with some of the tactics, the abuse, disregard, and lack of respect for some of the church leaders and now this new teaching degrading the name of Jesus, a group of concerned members met with one of the Deacons, and Elder in the church. We went to present our concerns and his first question was, “where is the pastor, why is he not in this meeting?” He did hear our concerns but nothing was done, and so I resigned my position as deacon and along with a number of other families we left. We worked for a year in another Assembly of God church, while Marsha’s family remained back at Calvary Temple, and after the year, we truly felt compelled to return.
The miracle of children
I immediately began to play piano for all services again, and felt welcomed – more by the pastor’s wife, Janet than by him, although he was cordial. The church membership had dwindled significantly, but began to grow again. All seemed well – working together, growing in number, and seeing first-hand the miracle of children – although we had been told we would never have children of our own! A deacon had come to our home, laid hands on us, anointed us with oil, and prayed the prayer of faith. Within a few months, Marsha was expecting our first child. Fast forward 3 years, and we were hoping for another child. Again, the same deacon came, went through the same process and again, God moved and our second child was on the way. We thought we were finished, but spring forward 2 years, and boom, our third child was coming! God had blessed us wonderfully.
Requirements increase and reports of absences from meetings were reported.
We raised our children in the church, where attendance at the private Christian school was required, but things were changing. More and more programs and activities were introduced. What seemed at first to be viable, even great things in and of themselves, began to be burdensome, mandated attendance, and questioning from leaders for those who were missing. Terms like “raising up a Godly seed” and “training them up” really meant brainwashing, keeping them from anything, everything, and everyone outside of Calvary Temple.
Ultimately with year-round school, children spent Monday through Friday at school, then back on Tuesday evening for Corporate Prayer, Wednesday Evening for Bible Study, Thursday evening for Corporate Prayer, Friday evening for Family Fun Night, Saturday evening for Youth Group/Young Adult Group, Sunday Morning for Church, and Sunday night for Church. Plus there were Home Fellowship and Men’s Breakfast meetings monthly as well as basketball games – most all were mandatory, and yes there were those who watched to see if you were there and reported absences to the leadership.
Authority of the pastor and tithing stressed.
The “church” became more and more insular. Outside speakers/singers who had once been welcomed were now prohibited. All teaching/preaching came only from the Pastoral staff. Sermon topics were most often related to spiritual authority (obeying those who have the rule over you), and tithing. Tithing to the point that records were scrutinized by the pastor and anyone who was not tithing or needed assistance paying mandatory school tuition were required to meet with the pastoral staff, review their personal finances and in many cases, eliminate unnecessary items, e.g., cable TV/Internet service, eating out, and other personal items so that they could pay tithe and tuition. Second and even Third “tithes” were taught and required at times all the while Star Scott amassed a fleet of high-end sports, dragster, and racing cars that he justified as a “race car ministry.”
People were told never leave the church-even for college or jobs.
There was also a very specific and lengthy focus on never leaving this church. “God has placed you here” was the rule and people were counseled and advised to quit their jobs in the event a job related relocation was in process with their employer. High School Graduates were required to attend college only in the immediate area. Several students who had been offered scholarships to universities out of the area were required by the church, and with the ‘support’ of their parents, to turn them down and stay local.
In 2005, our daughter Sarah, our oldest child, a nurse having graduated from a local technical school became engaged and married a young man in the church. It was a joyous occasion for us – we were able to participate in the ceremony and Marsha’s brother, one of the Assistant Pastors presided.
Their youngest son decided he wanted to leave the school and was told he must leave the church.
However in the Spring of 2006, things took a different turn. Our youngest child, Rob – then 16 years old, along with four of his close friends in the church and school announced that they were not serving God, they had been just following the rules, but no longer wanted to be there. They were immediately expelled from the school. We talked with Rob about his decision, and were impressed that he truthfully identified he had been being a hypocrite and could no longer do that. We wanted him to serve the Lord, but knew he and he alone had to make that decision.
We enrolled him in public school, and went forward. We required the same rules as before, no smoking, drinking, cursing, drugs, sex, and required him to obey and respect us and attend church. He willingly complied with these, but after a couple of services at Calvary Temple, we were told by the overseer/deacon we were assigned to that “Pastor Scott said Rob was no longer allowed to attend church there.” We questioned this as we felt hearing the Word of God was the best way for him to find his way back to Christ, but we were told absolutely not. So, we asked Rob to find another church which he willingly did and attended regularly.
Disobedient children were now pegged as God haters and the Fosters were told to put their son out of their home.
Things seemed to smooth out into what we thought was our “new normal” and family members were friendly, relationships were good. Even other family members from Calvary Temple treated Rob with love and affection. But again, things began to change. Sermons focusing on rebellious and disobedient children – “God haters” as Star Scott called them were more and more prevalent. We began to be counseled by the overseer/deacon that we should put Rob out of our home. We had observed this practice in a number of other families, and while we did not agree, we were not aware of all the circumstances with each family, and felt it was their decision. We disagreed with the deacon’s position.
Our son was not disobedient, rebellious and did not meet the requirements they were pointing us toward. As a result, we began to notice a distancing from other church members, family in the church – people we had been close to for years. The deacon continued to meet with us telling us that the pastor said to put Rob out of the house, he is a God hater. We tried to reason with him, telling him that Rob did not hate God, and that it was the job of the Holy Spirit to convict and draw him to Jesus. But we were told we were wrong. We asked where they would recommend putting him if we put him out, and they said, ”put him on the street with just the clothes on his back.” We refused to do that, but we were being worn down.
They put their son in with another family due to the pressure.
Our daughter and other son joined in to convince us to put him out. We did not want him far away, and thought of a cousin close by. But this family was not serving God, their son was on alcohol and drugs and in and out of jail. Our deacon said that would be a perfect place to send him! But we told him, absolutely not! Though we felt it wrong, we gave into the pressure and located friends nearby – parents of one of the other boys who had left the school in the Spring – the entire family left the church at that time. They were willing – actually glad to take Rob into their home and care for him.
It was the most difficult day of our lives. We had Rob pack all his belongings, told him we loved him, but sent him away in November 2006. Our hearts were broken, we were broken, and Rob was broken hearted. Only the leaders at Calvary Temple were happy. We maintained contact with Rob, seeing him on occasion over the next two month. However God was getting through to us, and in January, as I was praying in our bedroom, God spoke to me as clearly as I have ever heard that inner voice speak. He said, “Rob is your son, I gave him to you, a miracle – and I expect you to raise him, teaching him My ways and My Word. It is your responsibility as his father, not someone else.” I knew at that moment we were bringing Rob home. I shared this immediately with my wife, and we were both in agreement, this was the will of God, not what men had told us.
The Fosters are so distraught that they rethink their decision.
We knew that this would not sit well with the leadership of Calvary Temple and our family in the church. They were not happy with us, and quickly we began to have meetings again with our assigned overseer/deacon – Chris Ashley. We explained to him what God had spoken to us, but he said Star Scott said we needed to put Rob back out of the house. He specifically quoted the scripture from Deuteronomy 21:18-21 that speaks of a rebellious, gluttonous, drunkard son whom was to be taken to the gate in Old Testament times and stoned to death. We disagreed completely in that Rob was none of those things.
Marsha began an in-depth study of that passage, and it led her to Luke 15:1-31, the accounts of the Prodigal Son, the Lost Coin, and the Lost Sheep. All related the love of the Father, the Good Shepherd in seeking the lost, going after them, how they are precious to the Lord, and bringing them back. This we shared with the deacon and one of the Assistant Pastors, but they would not answer us, they grew tired of hearing us refer to this as our justification.
The Fosters begin to notice their friends in the church, as well as their other son and daughter, are distancing themselves from them.
And the distance between us and our life-long friends and family in the church grew. Some who had been our very best friends wouldn’t speak, or just gave a quick slight smile. In monthly Small Home Group Meetings, we were required to attend, but it was as though we were invisible, no one spoke to us. Our daughter, Sarah and oldest son, Michael distanced themselves as well. Sarah and her husband moved to another section of the sanctuary and no longer sat with us. Michael came to us finally and said that he was moving out of our house at age 21. His reason was that Rob was vexing him although we knew this was not true as he and Rob rarely saw each other due to their respective work and school schedules. Michael was being told by church leaders to move out.
In August of 2007, a well respected minister, David Wilkerson (now deceased) released a newsletter specifically addressing the Prodigal Son. This article completely confirmed what we had been saying to the leaders in Calvary Temple. Of course this caused a great stir in the church as many members followed David Wilkerson closely and respected him (even Star Scott – well up to this point). We had hoped this would be a turning point in our situation and that the Calvary Temple leaders would change their position. Unfortunately they did not.
I had been playing piano in the church since I was a teenager, but clearly Star Scott was unhappy with me. Though we were both on the platform and I played during praise and worship services as well as altar/after service, he would not address me, speak to me, not even so much as look at me. Finally, after one Sunday morning service, one of the Assistant Pastors came to me and told me that day was my last day playing piano at Calvary Temple. No explanation, but I knew it was because we would not obey Star Scott and put Rob out of our home again.
In September of 2007, Star Scott gave a sermon on Luke 15. He completely contradicted what David Wilkerson had said, and discredited him before the congregation on this topic.
Despite pressure, the Fosters stay in the church since their other children were there.
We continued to be called in for meetings with the overseer/deacon, but our position did not change – and neither did theirs. Marsha and I discussed leaving Calvary Temple many, many times. We wanted to leave, but we had seen what they did to everyone who left and knew they would do the same to us. They shun you, disparage you in front of the congregation, and no one will have anything to do with you. At this point, though our relationship with Sarah and Michael was strained, we were still in contact with them, so we elected to remain at Calvary Temple.
One evening, Star Scott called all the pastoral staff to the platform for a Panel Discussion. This is a forum he uses regularly to “allow the congregation to ask questions on topics they need additional information on.” In reality, he “sets the stage” with a preliminary discussion that establishes the tone of the meeting and defines the parameters in which congregants would feel comfortable asking about. The undertones and unspoken rules laid out in the opening by Star Scott are intended to inhibit congregants from asking straightforward questions. In most cases these discussions would lprovide just enough information for congregants to recognize whom this particular Panel Discussion is really about without actually giving the person or family’s name.
This was a very clever way to control information. Congregants are consistently told they are not to discuss situations among themselves, they are to take it “up” (meaning to their overseer/deacon) and he will discuss with the Pastoral Staff and get back to them. They say they are trying to protect the people.
Excommunication and shunning
In this particular Panel Discussion, the topic was taking the rebellious child to the gate to be stoned – aka the Foster's son although no names were mentioned. The wife of one of the deacons asked what would happen if the people did not do what Star Scott wanted. Star himself said, “we will Mark them or excommunicate them.”
On October 31, 2007 after the Wednesday evening service, Chris Ashley, the overseer/deacon we were assigned to came to me and said, “Pastor Scott said to tell you that you need to leave Calvary Temple. Find another church and attend somewhere else.” He also said, “we know you are Christians, and we can have fellowship with you, you just need to go somewhere else.” So, this was it, we were excommunicated. We say that because shortly after that night, Sarah and Michael, our older children who remained at Calvary Temple along with all the members of the church completely cut off all communication with us. We attempted to talk with and see our children, but they would not answer the phone, would not return messages, and would not answer the door if we went to their house.
Their daughter kept her pregnancy a secret from the Fosters because she was told to do so.
We learned that our children were very distressed over the separation and that Star Scott told our children and son-in-law that he would do anything he could to help restore our relationship. We requested meetings with him on three occasions, but never received a call back or acknowledgement from him. In May of 2009, our daughter gave birth to twin boys. We had learned that she was expecting, but had not had any communication from her. Kevin and Ryan were born on May 22nd. The following Sunday morning at Calvary Temple, Star Scott congratulated the congregation on keeping the birth of the Sarah’s twin boys a secret from the Foster’s, and asked them to continue to keep information off social media for a few days as one of the twins had some complications and they did not want us to know anything.
Scott interferes with reconciliation between the Fosters and their daughter.
We continued to reach out to our children in Calvary Temple via phone leaving them messages that we loved them, that we were serving God, and that we wanted to have a relationship with them. Rarely did we hear anything back from them, but late 2009, we received a message saying that they wanted to meet to try and reconcile. We were elated, but at that same time cautious. We wanted so much to reconcile and have our family restored, but we knew that there was a great possibility that they would just try to manipulate us and then back away if we refused to return to Calvary Temple and obey Star Scott.
I met with Sarah and her husband Mike for about 2 hours and was able to see Kevin and Ryan now about 7 months old. There were tense moments, raised voices, weeping and laughter. We ended the meeting on a good note, believing that we absolutely could reconcile. Sarah and Mike needed to talk with Star Scott and our plan was to meet again in a couple of days with Marsha included at that time. When we did not hear from them, I messaged Mike and received a response stating that they had spoken with Star Scott and we could not be reconciled.
We have continued to reach out to them and made several more attempts to reconcile, but they have all been rejected. We have asked forgiveness for anything we have done that hurt them, and they have said they forgive us. However each time they speak with the leadership at Calvary Temple, they are advised that they cannot reconcile with us. Our daughter & son-in-law now have a third child, Alexis, whom we have never seen.
Reconciliation with their son, Michael
We learned that our oldest son, Michael was married in 2010 to a young lady who came to Calvary Temple after we were gone. We had never met. her. We were not allowed to attend the wedding. However, their marriage ended after just a few years. Michael was devastated, and was counseled by one of the Assistant Pastors for a long while. Unfortunately, this “Pastor” caused severe emotional and psychological distress.
Ultimately, they banned Michael from the church and all the members – including his sister Sarah- completely cut him off. All his friends from childhood into his early adult years were gone. Fortunately, he knew we loved him and cared for him, and on one of the those calls Marsha made to remind him we loved him, he answered the phone for the first time in over 7 years. We have been reunited and are working together closely to restore what was taken from us by Calvary Temple. We have learned from Michael that the leaders at Calvary Temple destroyed our reputation and character with numerous lies.
We are so elated to be reunited with our son, and we have hope to be reunited with our daughter and son-in-law and to get to know our grandchildren. God is faithful, our trust is in Him and Him alone!
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First?
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I am praying that their daughter and her husband will realize that they are in a cult and reconcile with the Fosters.
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i.e. Disconnect Declare from Flag.
Now THAT’s a plausibly-deniable veiled threat…
“Mark them” sounds like branding them on the forehead or cutting off their nose so that All Might See and Know. (And with what I’ve heard of CT, they sound like they’d do that if they could get away with it.)
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I attended Calvary Temple and School of the Prophets from 1982-1984 and again from 1985 – 1987. I remember you and Marsha. I was shy and quiet which left me out of the “loop”. Although, I did sense that things were going wrong when Glen Thorpe and John Heyner suddenly left in 1987.
I stayed during the split but moved to Virginia Beach in late 1987. I remember the church as being totally focused on God. I also remember staying late into the night after bible college classes were over to pray and seek God. Now, I look back and see the manipulation going on under the surface. I’m sorry I didn’t see it sooner, however I know my heart was right before God and He used the ministry to get the word grounded in my heart.
I pray your family will be reunited and I thank you for the ministry of music you provided to me all those years ago. I loved you piano playing and your voice. You lead us into worship with a pure heart.
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Do they actually call them “overseers”?
“Back when we had slavery, ‘overseers’ were the guys whose job it was to keep the slaves in line.”
— Alien Nation
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@ Marsha:
Incredible reflexes!
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I think it is safe to say that Satan has a stronghold on this church. I’ve listed a few ways he’s worked in this church from the first few paragraphs. The signs were/are there and we should all be praying for this congregation and for leaders who’ve come under the control of darkness.
How the enemy has worked in this church:
1. He subtly questions others faith.
2. He undermines the faithful.
3. He draws in the young and inexperienced and forms his inner circle, his support system.
4. 2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (NET)– Interesting how she calls him the Shining Star in this article.
5. He, Satan, becomes greater and Jesus becomes lesser. Romans 6:16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey?(NLT)
6. He can’t work without funding or without you!
7. Now emboldened, the evil one begins tearing the Word apart, often usurping the power of God.
8. The lure of younger parishioners keep their parents coming back in fear of breaking up a family and thereby dumbing down the inherent instincts of parents to flee. In this way Satan has a stronghold on this weakness.
9. Requirements, requirements, requirements: Whether to sign a document of membership or forced to use church services only (the list is too large to put here) but this is another in our list of signs to leave the church if it refuses to be reformed. These requirements are how the enemy keeps his hands tightly around necks.
10. The evil one will be watching you to make sure you fall in line…and yet more will watch on his behalf.
11. Obedience is pounded into the congregational minds and bodies without relent.
12. He spies, rather overtly, into the livelihood of all believers and accuses Christians, and by this point outright followers of this newfound cult of hiding money from the organization.
13. The great accuser will label you as a disobedient, rebellious, God hater, unbeliever, traitor, unsaved, undermining church authority, LIAR.
I am glad this family, at least part of it, was able to get back together. We should all be praying for the recovery of others. It is evident that God can bring his children out of this abusive situation. We should be praying for the Christians who are still in similar situations to be delivered.
Great article and witness.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
You don’t even have to go to Alien Nation for that. Just look to the antebellum South.
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Overseer is a Biblical term from 1 Tim. 3:1.Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
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WAY TO GO!!! You just Take, and Stand your ground!! when something so ugly… and is so prevalent… Pray… Pray.. and believe…. God has answered before,, and he will again!!! Its his timing.. This is so horrible,, BOB Scott,, has LOST it FOLKS!!! and his hinchmen…I am saying.. get ready for the walls to come down….. Eccel 8:11 …..Conseqeunces.. for our sin!!
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I’ve read a number of books on eldership and overseer is a term that is often used. I have the same reaction as you, I’d jettison the term due to the bad connotations you mention.
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Maybe slave driving overseers is just the way to visualize these leaders at CT. All they seem to be missing is a whip.
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This is just disgusting. I really don’t know what else to say.
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“Fortunately, he knew we loved him and cared for him, and on one of the those calls Marsha made to remind him we loved him, he answered the phone for the first time in over 7 years. We have been reunited and are working together closely to restore what was taken from us by Calvary Temple. We have learned from Michael that the leaders at Calvary Temple destroyed our reputation and character with numerous lies.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gary & Marsha — I am very happy for your reunion with your son.
So, were you cut off from your kids for 7 years? (I am so sorry, whatever the length of time)
With what kinds of lies did the leaders at CT destroy your reputation & character? (if too personal you don’t have to answer). Were the lies cleverly designed, to afford plausible deniability?
lawsuit city, as far as i’m concerned. what they’ve done is criminal (if not according to the laws of the land, then surely the laws of kindness & love, let alone common decency).
I sincerely hope that the pursuit of legal consequences it not spiritualized away.
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@ Jon S.:
“Overseer is a Biblical term from 1 Tim. 3:1.”
+++++++++
SO WHAT!!
please go greet your pastor with an holy kiss, then go sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor so you can be perfect.
biblical f’n schmiblical
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This makes me feel sick.
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Corbin wrote:
Same reaction. I was at a loss for words, not something I usually suffer from!
If anything can be said, such “churches” are a kind of medieval Catholicism revived, inasmuch as the institution, the church organisation – in particualar in the form of its leaders are effectively put in the place of God in believers’ lives. So your relationship (standing) with God is measured in terms of how well you obey the church. The sacrificial tithing and sacrificing of family are mot made as a response to a call from God, for example, to reach out to others, but the “church”.
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Jon S. wrote:
Perhaps people are not reading beyond the first verse.
I Timothy uses the word “episkop..”(choose an ending) and goes on and on about the qualifications and requirements and twice in that discussion warns that said episkip..(choose and ending) may fall into a snare of the “diabolou.” It does not even remotely suggest that said episkop.. is bound to be right all the time, or is bound to be exempt from falling into said snair.
If somebody comes along and declares himself an episkop.. or else some church accepts somebody as an episkop.. while fast forwarding and bypassing the biblical requirements that is not just a red flag, that is where they have quit being biblical. And if at the same time they omit the biblical warnings (twice) in the same passage that uses the coveted word episkop.. that said episkop.. may fall into the snare of the diablou, that is also where they quit being biblical.
And having been into sports, or successful in business, or handsome and charming, or well connected, or part of the theological in crowd or anything else does not fast forward anybody past the biblical requirements and biblical warnings.
IMO, the congregation or denomination which ignores all (all) all that 1 Timothy says about this is heading down a disastrous path and will live to regret it.
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Nancy wrote:
I have misspelled the word–sorry. episkop..
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Nancy wrote:
Should read: which does not take into consideration all (all) all of what I Timothy says.
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Gary and Marsha, I am so sorry for what this church put you and your family through. I so hope that your daughter and son-in law will relize they need to get out of there and reunite with the both of you as Michael did. You’re Grandchildren need you and I know you need them.
God Bless you’re family as I hope you can all reconnect soon.
Donna Shine Green
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“On October 31, 2007 after the Wednesday evening service, Chris Ashley, the overseer/deacon we were assigned to came to me and said, “Pastor Scott said to tell you that you need to leave Calvary Temple. Find another church and attend somewhere else.” He also said, “we know you are Christians, and we can have fellowship with you, you just need to go somewhere else.” (Excerpt from Fosters’ Story)
Lie. Liars. Saying what they need to, in order to get you out of the building in a quiet manner, so they can begin the intensive smear campaign to get your children to ‘cut you off’ without ever sitting down and speaking to you. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had the women hacks (pastors wives) on the phone with your daughter while you were being outed by Deacon Chris Ashley. Time is of the essence in covert operations. This man has all the tactical moves of a Stalin, Assad, or Khomeni. Say one thing to your face and another behind your back. Win win at all costs. He lies. He is not a Christian, he is a Deceiver, a Wolf, an anti-christ.
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Gary & Marsha – well written. It hurt to read. 40 years is a very long time to be under CT. I’m believing for ongoing healing for all of you.
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I am curious if anyone involved has reported all this to get the AOG headquarters and if so, what did they say?
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@ Patti:
If I recall correctly, Star Scott broke off from the Assemblies of God in the mid-1980s and went independent (a common warning sign). So, they don’t have any disciplinary oversight.
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Nancy wrote:
Applause!
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Gary and Marsha
Thank you for your story. I will be praying that the eyes of your children who are caught in this group are opened. The best thing that can happen is to tell your stories on blogs, etc. The one thing Scott cannot do is close the Internet down.Even if he says not to view these stories, I know human nature. They will.
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Bill M wrote:
Looks like that tom e as well.
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@ The_Other_Way_’Round_:
Great comment.
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@ Nancy:
The word ‘bishop’ comes from the same Greek.
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This story has really bothered. Man the level of pain and suffering in the midst of my backyard in the Northern Virginia area is heartbreaking. I think of all the times I drove down Leesburg Pike to Leesburg on a regular basis and drove within a stone throw of CT. All this pain in my midst… I feel sick.
I think Star Scott came from the darkest pit of hell. He’s a fraud, manipulator, etc… The only thing that leaves me totally baffled is why hasn’t law enforcement been able to do anything? Some of the recent stories I read are legally questionable and raise issues of false imprisonment, sex abuse, etc…
I don’t know if I should say this, but I am amazed as to how under Scott these members are. I’m honestly wondering…if law enforcement gets involved, and his reign is cut short will Star Scott become a modern day David Koresh or Jim Jones. All in the shadow of Washington, D.C.?
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Eagle wrote:
Everyone is reluctant to address problems in churches, because “religiuous persecution”!
That’s how those Frankenchurches are able to continue.
And also, because so many Christians just dont WANT to see the abuse. Those preachers (and the religious right) have them so worried about all kinds of things that they rallye around the one place that they think that’s safe. And that’s exactly where the wolves are waiting in ambush.
Teach someone to be afraid and you can sell/tell them everything.
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Eagle wrote:
Because that is Secular Humanist Worldly law enforcement, i.e. “PERSECUTION!!!!! Blessed are Ye who are PERSECUTED for Righteousness’ Sake…”
(Especially if the PERSECUTION is done by the Vast Conspiracy of everyone outside of your cult…)
In the proximity to POWER.
Remember Christian Reconstructionism? Seize POWER in God’s Name and make a Truly Godly Christian Nation by any means necessary, just like ISIS and its Truly Islamic State?
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Eagle wrote:
It has to do with ADULTS being there by voluntary association. If people are under 18 and there is suspected abuse, that would change things. That is how they were able to go after Koresh.
I cannot begin to tell people how dangerous it has become to get involved in some of these churches. There really is no legal out and I am wondering if we really want to go that route anyway because we are admitting we cannot govern ourselves as adults.
I would rather see all tax benefits off the table for religious organizations. Make it less profitable to start a church and take away the tax benefit of tithing. That would be a huge consideration. It would not stop all of it but it is a start.
I know people right now who have moved across country just to attend churches where SBTS professors teach. They live in basic poverty just to be around the “greats” who could care less about them. What is it about us (generally speaking) that we are so easily decieved? Is it we are lacking in basic education of making our own decisions? Why are we so easily sucked into following these gurus? Have we been desensitized to individual competency and freedom? Is it the rise of cult of personality?
I have high hopes the internet is helping to change all that. Now you can google the church or person and read about them before you buy into it. That is another reason Kevin DeYoung wrote his piece. It is getting too easy for people to see the dark side they want hidden. So make it a sin to read “reports” of evil deeds.
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Gus wrote:
I am going to have to steal that: Frankenchurches. LOL!!!
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Gus wrote:
Oh yes. And they get to decide what is “positive” and negative. And of course, negative truths they do not approve are NOT allowed. You can sin by questioning them!
The seeker type mega’s sold nothing and allowed nothing but shallow positive platitudes. The more syrupy the platitude the better. It was nothing but plastic banana Christianity.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Which is why I am a lonely Libertarian. I am sick of both sides telling me what I have to think and do and wanting to micromanage my life.
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Off topic. I’ve just become aware of a recent book about the Takeover of the SBC by the fundamentalists. I lived through those difficult days.
The Exiled Generations: Legacies of the Southern Baptist Convention Holy WarsJan 10, 2014
by Carl L. Kell
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__
“White Washed?”
hmmm…
Fox 5 News: Calvary Temple Pastor Star Scott has not been charged with a crime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDtCvyiUtRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4h8z7i0BUw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMEBoqfxlnA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvxxe1fa940
—
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“He calls us ‘weeping prophets.'” He does know that comparing you to Jeremiah is a compliment, right?
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Lydia wrote:
Same for me!
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Lydia wrote:
Feel free. Just make sure you always correctly attribute it to yours truly – you don’t want to do a Driscoll on me, do you?
😉
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I’m praying for you and your family. I also prayed for the people in that church.
On the way that church got taken over, it’s a cautionary tale reminding us that any time someone tries to manufacture an inner ring of people (subtly or overtly), it’s time to say no clearly (and loudly, if necessary). That’s hard to do because the ring formers are so good at masking what they are doing.
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Lydia wrote:
All of the above and more also. I doubt that we can correct the church problems without taking a look at some things in our culture as a whole.
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Gus wrote:
I could always say my husband told me to use it without attribution. Then I am off the hook because I am submitting to his spiritual leadership which was designed by God in creation order. (Wink)
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@ Nancy:
That is what I have been thinking, too.
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@ Florence in KY:
Thanks for that reference Florence!
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Tim wrote:
That’s exactly what I thought. I’m interested in how he means it in a negative way.
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__
“Stop, Lõõk, Listen?”
Calvary Temple Child Abuse #calvaryhellhole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmSbm53Ur8
What is really happening to Calvary Temple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL4mUX72fNc
—
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@ Nancy:
Nancy, I completely agree. My comment that “overseer” is a Biblical term was simply to say the term itself is not bad and should not be denigrated because some evil slave owner abused the term. It is a good term, and in my opinion more helpful than “Bishop.” I especially agree that a man should not be allowed to call himself an overseer, but the church should carefully do so without haste (1 Tim. 5:22), making sure he is indeed qualified according to 1 Tim. 3.
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Eagle wrote:
As our county sheriff told a friend of mine (also an ex-member of my former cult), they can only intervene if the cult is breaking the law. As horrific as some of these stories of family breakups are, they don’t fall in that category. In fact, much of spiritual abuse doesn’t necessarily break any laws. (Excepting the biblical law to “love your neighbor.”) If the investigation into (alleged) sexual abuse turns up incriminating evidence then law enforcement can do something. What Dee and Deb are doing here (and you, Eagle, by supporting the CT ex-members in protest) is probably the most effective right now.
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Jon S. wrote:
That is a good point. We do tend to do that in a lot of things. I can hardly keep up with the increasingly long list of words that we are supposed to never say. Well, okay, maybe I could keep up with the list if I were motivated to do so. But come on now, the word police need to get themselves under control in some things.
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Gary and Marsha, I’m so sorry for the pain you’ve experienced in the separation of your family. I know you were heavily influenced by people you trusted to minister to you. Thank God He showed you what His will is. For me, reading Robert Jay Lifton’s patterns of thought reform started helping me to realize how I had been manipulated in my cult. It’s a process to sift out the toxins I’ve ingested and, hopefully, hold on to my faith.
I know at least one family (in my former cult) whose child was still a minor and could not legally be kicked out. Instead, her father took her to a neighboring state where she could be legally emancipated and dropped her off. There’s just nothing “Christian” about that.
I wish that I could some day meet some of you ex-CTers. I think we’d have a lot of common experiences to share. My heart goes out to you. I can’t get your stories out of my mind.
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@ Jon S.:
Jon when I read that word in a 1st century (or so) context I see: fed to the lions first so others could escape.
Or something to that effect. I dont see boss, leader or lording it over. I see a spiritually mature servant. It is so rare these days we might not recognize a real one…. especially if a female. :o)
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@ lydia:
Lydia,
You are right that the office is not to used to lord over those under their care. 1 Peter 5:1-3 is a good text to make that point. What I really like about that text is that the three terms that refer to the same office are used: “Elder” = Who he is, “Overseer” = What he does, and “Shepherd”/ [pastor] = How he does it. This is in stark contrast to false overseers like Diotrophes described in 3 John of whom it is said, he “likes to put himself first.” True overseers will go first to lion’s den, not first to the place of applause.
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@ Jon S.:
Good points. Another aspect is we do not see any rules about having overseers at all. Most epistles are written to entire church groups. Elders are barely even mentioned if one looks at the big pucture. the concept is way overblown in proportion to how it is positioned in the New Testament. There is some very interesting scholarship out there on the subject. One of them I read goes into how long the Corinthian church ( as one example) operated with no big names or even a letter from Paul.
What if a church was full of the spiritually mature? Would they need elders? Could that happen?
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lydia wrote:
This is a real issue, and I am not sure it can be discussed without tramping on toes, but I am willing to give it a shot. In 1 Timothy 3 I do not see boss as we understand it today perhaps and I certainly do not see lording it over, but I do note that both bishops and deacons must be people who have managed their own households well, so that they will know how to do in church, from which I gather that what each office (I know, I know) does related to the church has some aspect of management.
I have been for some time now in a denom which has bishops, and they definitely have an administrative and management function but I have not heard any tales of abuse of the office, so certainly this affects my thinking. Also, back in the day when I was trying to determine if episkopos meant bishop I was searching around in some of the ante-nicene fathers and sure enough I did find bishops early on. And did find in the same sentence ‘bishop, elder, deacon and laity.” So yes there it was. One quote stuck in my mind, though I have forgotten who said it, but it was something like ‘where the bishop is there is the church.’ That sounds a lot like leadership to me. Now certainly back in that day being a leader would put your life at risk, but I fail to see how being a prime target for persecution would mitigate against the idea that said target may have been targeted specifically because he was a leader.
It seems to me that the general idea of associating bishop with leadership including management is both biblical and ancient and has persisted in church tradition until now.
If you have read some stuff different from that I would like to hear your point of view.
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I don’t view elder/pastor/overseer as an office. They seem to me to be verbs/functions not positions to be filled.
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I would hesitate from reacting against leadership by saying it is unnecessary. A church becomes mature as leaders do their job properly and equip the saints (Eph. 4:12-14). And while it is true that there is much more in the whole counsel of God that also needs to be addressed, Biblical leadership is written about extensively by most authors of the NT. For example: Luke – (Acts 20), Paul – (Eph. 4, 1&2 Tim, Titus, Phil. 1:1, 1 Thess. 5:12-13), Peter – (1 Pet. 5), John – (2&3 John), Author of Hebrews – (Heb. 13:7).
But again, it is not the only subject to camp on. Thanks for the interaction. God bless.
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Bridget wrote:
Bridget,
These offices certainly do have functions that need to be fulfilled as you said. Sadly, there are too many times when someone has a title of an office but does not do the work of that ministry. And even worse when someone has the title of the office and does damaging work against those whom they are to serve.
But there is to be an office recognized as Paul mentions “laying on of hand” a public recognition of that one who serves in the office (1 Tim. 5:22). Also 1 Tim. 3:1 speaks of the “office of overseer.” So it is an honorable position that requires faithful work.
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Jon S. wrote:
It does in some translations, the KJV and the Geneva Bible for example, but the NIV and the ESV do not use the word ‘office.’ So I checked Mounce and his interlinear uses ‘office’ but the greek is sparse right there and it looks to me like both the use of the term office and the lack of use of that term are sort of different approaches to fill in the blanks.
I was born into and grew up in and lived in for decades the baptist tradition and they used to say that they could not determine from scripture alone whether bishop/overseer (episkopos) was a separate office of whether it was another way of talking about the senior pastor. I note that they seem to have stuck with attributing the word to the senior pastor. I came to a different conclusion from the ante-nicene fathers and church tradition as seeing it as a separate office.
Whichever place one falls on that issue, so be it. But I do want to emphasize the biblical endorsement for leadership, chosen and ordained and commissioned (laying on of hands) and the need for the people to benefit from and cooperate with good leadership.
Basically, I am saying amen to what you said about leadership.
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Nancy wrote:
Amen, we can agree to disagree on where to apply the term. I base most of my argument that overseer = pastor on the 1 Pet. 5:1-3 passage where all three terms are used together. But to whomever the title is applied the character qualifications of 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1 must fit. When they don’t the church has the responsibility remove the man from office. If for some reason he won’t go, they should go.
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This particular story is so disturbing….I cannot believe this man had the ability to pull the puppet strings of the entire staff of the church for this many years, as well as hoodwink the entire congregation….what did he and his staff talk about in private? Were they privy to his motives? Did they actually believe this stuff? I’m just dumbfounded that this could even happen…This pastor’s house of cards is finally folding….!! What hate has been sowed into God’s family by one man….I am just incredulous. I pray that his victims are healed and I know Wartburg Watch is just the place for the healing to begin….
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and again….what was this man’s end game? Money? The sheer high of controlling people? I just can’t understand it at all….It’s so sickening. I’m not Catholic but the head of the entire Catholic Church appears to be full of humility as opposed to this sad little man…
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Gus wrote:
I hadn’t heard that one yet, please if I may borrow it from time to time.
Thanks
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Lydia wrote:
Wow, I hadn’t read to the bottom yet, agreed.
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Bill M wrote:
I hope it was clear to everyone from the beginning that the bit about proper attribution was definitely meant as a joke, mostly on a well-known Seattle pastor without a church.
I don’t think anyone could claim a copyright on that one. Neither do I think any of the large producers of industrial processed food will want to claim a copyright on “Frankenfoods”, either.
Some enterprising and abusive pastor might register a copyright on Frankenchurch, if only to preclude people’s using the term for his church, though.
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I’m finding it so hard to read these stories! How can anyone cause so much pain and heartbreak and then call it ‘godly’!? (I guess the same way the leaders at my ex-church could watch me walk out of a meeting weeping and obviously in pain and then go out to dinner to celebrate the great job they’d done…)