How Calvary Temple Caused My Family to Break Apart: A Transparent Personal Testimony

“If you cannot get rid of the family skeleton, you may as well make it dance.” ― George Bernard Shaw, link

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Calvary Temple protestors from this past weekend. 
Special thanks to Eagle.

Today, you are going to read an amazingly transparent testimony of Michelle Freeman, a former member of Calvary Temple. She opens up her life to us, never shying away from self examination as she brings us inside a church that caused the break up of her family. I think her willingness to look inside herself while, at the same time, assessing the pressures that were placed on her from the time she entered Calvary Temple make for a compelling tale of courage, pain, failure, faith and redemption.Frankly, her willingness to share her life, the good and the difficult, with us is nothing short of courageous. I am sure her insights will help many people who find themselves trapped in a cultlike environment.

Thank you, Michelle.


Even now, after all these years, after leaving in December 2007, I still sometimes wonder how in the world I allowed my family to be destroyed by Bob Scott and Calvary Temple. While I know that it wasn't intentional…the destroyed family part…I honestly believed that Calvary Temple was a safe place to raise my boys. Although my ex-husband never attended the church, and openly disliked Bob Scott, I believed that through prayer, his heart would be changed and he would then become a member, joining his family. Not only did that not happen, he divorced me because of Calvary Temple.

I guess I should go back to the beginning…just how did my sons and I wind up at Calvary Temple?

Growing up in western Pennsylvania, I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also known as “born again” in the Methodist Church, but by senior year, I was working and had fallen away from church, also known as "backslidden". My mom had divorced my dad and on the night of my high school graduation, we moved to Northern Virginia. This was 1978, and by 1979, I was a USPS employee.

I was 18 years old when I first met Bruce Dimsey. I was taking the pre-hire dexterity training at the Merrifield mail processing plant and Bruce Dimsey was the trainer. He was nice enough, and then after I passed the training and was eventually hired, Bruce was again the person in the training room who directed my training. He was friendly, and affable, and partied with others in the crowd I hung out with.

Not too long after, Bruce soon seemed changed…when asked, he told me that he had been "saved" and was attending a church called Calvary Temple in Sterling, VA and was pastored by a man named Star Scott. I kid you not…my first thought was, "what kind of name is that? What kind of name is that for a church? It sounds like a cult!"

Fast forward, I started dating my future husband, and after 3 years, we married, and soon after started our family. My oldest son was born in 1987, and our second son was born in 1990. In the meantime, my husband and I had already decided that we didn't want our children raised in the public school system, and both boys attended a Montessori school in Warrenton, VA.

Meanwhile, I knew that I wanted my boys to be raised Christian, and I soon began having conversations with Bruce about salvation, and church, and more. Bruce had also given me cassette tapes of Bob Scott, Kenneth Copeland, and Kenneth Hagen to listen to in the car. I remember that I really wasn’t all that interested in listening to the Bob Scott teachings, so I listened to the others first. I liked them enough, but then I finally put in one of Bob’s teachings. I have to say that I thought the level of teaching was high, and that I really liked what I heard.

Coming from a Methodist background, and having attended an Episcopalian church for the year prior to joining Calvary Temple, I was used to 20-minute canned sermons that didn’t really have too much meat in them. I shared all of this with Bruce and that was when he encouraged me to visit Calvary Temple, and I did just that on a Wednesday night in April 1995. Star Scott did not "teach" that night, instead Richard Miller was there in his place. Richard, I thought had done a great job…he had a white board and was going through the points that he wanted to make in what I thought was a clear and concise manner…I was hooked.

By summer, the boys and I were driving to every service, and I remember standing in the parking lot of the Post Office telling my husband that I wanted three things:

  1. To join Calvary Temple Church
  2. for the boys to attend Calvary Temple School, and
  3. to move to Sterling, VA.

By that October, all three things had come true.

As a mom, I delved right in…I wanted to be a mom that was actively engaged in her children’s activities. Even though I was a working mom, I hoped that working wouldn’t be a hindrance to raising my children. Everyone that attended Calvary Temple, both the church and the school, seemed so nice and warm and I made friends quickly. The church and school were well-tended to, and it seemed that everyone always came to church, were fully committed and on fire for the Lord.

Although he never attended services, my husband came out to the boys’ activities, whether sports, field trips, and parent-teacher conferences. Dale was, and still is, an excellent father. He knew just about everyone who attended Calvary Temple, attended social gatherings outside of CT sanctioned events, and we vacationed with many of the families there.

My boys were well-behaved, so there were very few occasions of corporal punishment at the school. The school used the A Beka Education books, a well-known program used by home schoolers. I was satisfied that my boys were receiving a good education.

Basketball was the sport of choice for the school program because at a minimum you only needed 5 players. My oldest son excelled at the sport, while my youngest, even though he wasn’t very interested in sports, was made to participate.Eevery student, boy or girl, had to participate in basketball or cheerleading – there was no choice.

As the years progressed, in my eyes everything seemed fine. However, it as  evident that my husband was growing unhappy. I didn’t know what to do about it. To me, serving Jesus was a choice that I was not going to abandon, and I truly believed that Calvary Temple was the best place to do that. I did realize that Dale did not like the church, but he never told me that he no longer wanted the boys or me to go there.

In 2002, when my oldest son, Stuart, was in 8th grade, he told me that he no longer wanted to attend Calvary Temple. I blamed my husband for his change of heart and I talked Stuart into staying.

Then in 2006, halfway through 10th grade, my youngest son, Channing,  told me that he and four other boys wanted to leave Calvary Temple. There was no talking him out of it. There were meetings, I made Channing read Christian books, hoping he would change his mind, but he didn’t.

Then the unthinkable happened. We parents of the now “Famous Five” (Channing and the other 4 boys who wanted to leave) were counseled by Calvary Temple leadership to treat our sons as if they were dead. We were told that in Deuteronomy, rebellious children were taken to the gate and stoned to death. Since we could not legally and literally stone our sons, we were to treat them as dead – no new clothes; they had to ask for every bite of food they ate, etc.

My stomach was sick! I loved my son! How could I treat him as if he were dead? What about Luke 15 (The Parable of the Prodigal Son?) The father did not treat his prodigal son as if he were dead…he loved him and he watched for his return! God forgive me, I did as I was told, but that only lasted for about one week. I couldn’t do it! I just could not treat my young son, my questioning son, my brave son…as if he were dead. I enrolled Channing in public high school, the very place I never wanted him to be, and…

…then the discussions with my husband started. Can you imagine my trying to explain all of this to him? Trying to convince him that this all was best for our son? Dale grew more and more quiet…

Another blow to our marriage and family was when our oldest son graduated from Calvary Temple School June of 2006. Calvary Temple leadership had sent down an edict that Dale (my husband) could not attend the graduation. Why? They said it was because he did not attend church. God forgive me, I relayed the news to my husband. This man who was such a good father…had attended everything that involved our children; had driven to Tennessee, staying awake all night, several years in a row, just to attend NACA basketball tournaments…this good man could not attend his oldest son’s graduation…and I allowed it…

…and then in October 2006, my husband quietly told me one day that he wanted a divorce. He told me that he couldn’t live like this any more, meaning live like Calvary Temple wanted us to live. I was devastated, absolutely devastated, but still…I did not see…

We reconciled on Thanksgiving Day, and the next few months were tense, to say the least…and I did not see, and I changed nothing…

On a winter day in February 2007, a week after our Anniversary; after 21 years of marriage, my husband was done. He asked me a second time for a divorce. I knew that he was serious and that there was no turning back for him. Again, I was devastated. But still, I did not see; I changed nothing. If anything, this made me even more committed.

But God began to remove the scales from my eyes. Little by little, as I packed up half of the belongings in my house, as I looked for a rental for my oldest son and I; as I watched my family implode right before my eyes…I also began to see what Calvary Temple and Bob Scott really were.

In Calvary Temple, everyone is expected to attend the following:

  • every service,
  • prayer nights on Tuesday and Thursday,
  • outreaches, basketball games,
  • Home Fellowship Groups,
  • Men’s breakfast,
  • and on and on.

Congregants are expected to carry notebooks with them, and take fastidious and copious notes from Bob Scott’s teachings, to get the “nuggets” that only the “Man of God” can speak to us. The first years that I attended, I filled page after page in my notebook; I was an excellent student.

In around 2006, I wrote less and less; Bob Scott was no longer teaching but appeared to be talking in circles. Most of the services he stood in the pulpit and delivered what I would call *sanctioned gossip*. There seemed to be constant drama and strife going on in Calvary Temple families, in the Young Adult group, and with the kids in school.

I can honestly say that I believe that the majority of congregants attended the services so that they can hear this gossip. I have since disposed of my notebooks. Towards the end of my tenure there, I believe that Bob Scott said nothing of use from the pulpit. In fact, my notebook was full of doodles, or comments about Bob Scott. Here is one example.

 “What did he just say? He just contradicted himself again! I have just spent an hour sitting here listening to nothing!”

I started questioning my deacon, as well as others in my Home Group. I noted that the Young Adults were biting and devouring one another. The Captains (leaders) were essentially spying on the young adults, which now included my oldest son, and reported their findings to those above them. The Captains would befriend the young adults, gain their confidence, and then report up. In other words, talking about people was encouraged. 

I remember Bob Scott saying several times that 

“You are never wrong in reporting up.”

I asked others in the church about the example of Luke 15. David Wilkerson had published a tremendous newsletter regarding Luke 15 and how a prodigal child was to be treated. We parents copied that newsletter and shared it with one another, encouraged by the stand that we had taken to love our sons, not discard them. Then, Bob Scott publicly denounced David Wilkerson from the pulpit.

I began to see more and more…the scales were coming off quickly now. I started having clandestine conversations with other members who were also noticing the same things. As I moved my oldest son and me out of our home, leaving my youngest son and estranged husband behind, I finally understood just what was happening to my destroyed family. I felt powerless to stop the destruction…

I realized that I was being now watched. Bob Scott’s daughter, Kimberly, and his wife, Greer, were watching me. They watched who I talked to. They sent me text messages and emails if I missed a service or an event.

As time went on, I was brought into meetings with my deacon, and then I finally was told to meet with Bob Scott, Greer, Kimberly, Kimberly's husband, youth pastor Jeff Heglund, and several other pastors. I asked about Luke 15. I also brought up Galatians 5 – that this ministry had put us back under the law making Jesus’ blood of no effect.

I remember that Bob Scott said almost nothing. The only thing that I can firmly remember was him saying, “Well, yes, I guess that you can look at it that way…”

I also remember leaving that meeting feeling as if they had satisfied my questions. Essentially the scales were trying to come back o. Then, I remember saying,

“Wait a minute! Again, he said nothing! He addressed nothing!”

Two more specific events are important to my story. The first incident a very close girlfriend. On my birthday, she took me down to the pond located on the property and proceeded to castigated because I still loved my husband and son! She claimed that I wasn’t obeying leadership, and she was *concerned* for me. She even went so far as to visibly shudder because I had told her that I still loved my husband and if he wanted to make love to me, I would love him in a heartbeat. I was in shock! How could my friend, who knew how much I loved my husband, who knew how devastated I was, how hurt and confused I was by the destruction of my family…how could she not want my family to be restored? I was done. God severed my relationship with my friend.

The second occurrence was this. I was sitting in a service, most likely doodling and daydreaming about being anywhere else but at Calvary Temple. Bob Scott was droning on from the pulpit, and I will never forget this as long as I live. I heard him growl like the wolf that he is. One of my friends who also was seeing the truth about Calvary told me that at the same time I heard him growl, she saw the mask removed for an instant and saw the wolf.

I knew it was time…I had planned on leaving Calvary Temple by New Year’s Day 2008. I had made a commitment to help with the Children’s Christmas Program.  Bruce Dimsey and his wife had invited Stu and me to their house for Christmas dinner. Not wanting to go back on a commitment, I was going to see these last two things through and then leave. But God had other plans. It was a Friday night, two weeks before Christmas. I was in our rental home, painting. I had not attended the Friday night basketball games and I received text messages from Kimberly Heglund, asking where I was. She said, “Where’s the Michelle that we once knew?” As with hearing Bob Scott growl, I literally felt the hand of God on the middle of my back, pushing me out of Calvary Temple. I left that night and never set foot in Calvary Temple again.

Other important events were still to happen. My oldest son still attended the church. Although I knew that he was beginning to see, I was trying to persuade him to leave. That was the exact opposite of what I did when he was in the 8th grade. He told me, with tears in his eyes, that if

“I was talking about Calvary Temple, then I was talking about him.”

Meaning, if I was saying that Calvary Temple was a cult and that Bob Scott was a wolf, I was essentially saying the same things about him. I knew from that point on that all I could do was love my son, and pray for the scales to be removed from his eyes.

I started attending a sweet little Nazarene Church after leaving CT. We did have prayer on Sunday evenings, and for months it seemed that our prayer time was focused on Calvary Temple. We prayed that the congregant’s eyes would be opened and that they would see CT for what it truly is. I remember distinctly one Sunday night that I never sat down. I stood praying the entire time. When I left that night, I knew that the heart of one of my kids, or my husband, had changed.

That Tuesday night, my oldest son came up into my room after CT prayer and skit practice…he held my hand. I woke up and asked him if everything was okay? How was skit practice? To which he replied that it was okay. He told me that Jon Miller and Mark Perozich had talked to him afterwards, but he did not go into details. It turns out that they had approached Stu and told him that leadership was directing Stu to move “out of his mother’s house in the middle of the night” and that if he didn’t, he would be put on visitor’s status and would not be allowed to participate in any CT activities. He would only be permitted to attend church, and would not be allowed to talk to anyone. My son made his decision…by that Wednesday, my son had left Calvary Temple for good!

My youngest son graduated from Potomac Falls High School and is a gifted writer, musician, and artist. My oldest son is a rural carrier for the USPS and is married to a wonderful woman, who is also a youth pastor. Unfortunately, after five years, my husband finalized his divorce from me.

As for me, I have been actively speaking out against Calvary Temple since 2007. My ex-husband was responsible for two significant events that happened in 2008 and 2009. He called Michelle Boorstein from the Washington Post. Michelle’s article was on the front page of the November 16, 2008, newspaper, which by design was published on the anniversary of the Jim Jones and Jonestown Massacre. Dale also sent a letter to the IRS which resulted in a very large investigation that almost landed Bob Scott in jail. Instead, he was merely fined. For a man worth millions, that was only a slap on the wrist.

My youngest son and I still have a strained relationship. My ex-husband and I have not spoken in over three years. My relationship with my oldest son and his wife is fine.

Hindsight being what it is, I can now remember things that should have had me grabbing my sons and running as far away from Calvary Temple as I could. Here are some examples.:

  • Bob Scott and his wife Janet, as well as the other pastoral staff never greeted visitors
  • Bob Scott and his wife Janet, as well as the other pastoral staff never introduced themselves to my husband, even though they knew that he wasn’t saved.
  • When we first started attending CT, my youngest son was only five, and in kindergarten. A woman who attended CT was watching my boys after school until I could pick them up after work. I remember early on, going to her house, only to find that she had my young, sweet son on the counter and he was sobbing…she had spanked him and was trying to get him to confess that he had lied. I was devastated…but still I stayed.
  • My husband never liked Bob Scott and he could never understand how he could have the race cars and drive the expensive cars that he did…I should have trusted my husband’s opinion…why didn’t I?
  • The discipline of grown adults was very controlling, and I watched this, and in many ways condoned this.
  • Three weeks after Bob Scott’s wife of 30+ years died of cancer, at the age of 55 he married a 19-year old virgin after proclaiming that he was the High Priest, and was not permitted to mourn his wife, and that he was to marry a virgin. I remember thinking…wait a minute! Jesus is our High Priest, but as with everything else, I pushed those thoughts down.
  • I believe that Bob Scott has stolen from the congregation by instituting the tithe, the double and triple tithe, missions, offerings, specifically the Joash Chest raking in over $600,000 for a new church building that never got off the ground.

After leaving Calvary Temple, I had to take everything that I thought that I knew about Jesus and the Bible and strip it all of Bob Scott. I rejected everything that Bob Scott taught and studied for myself…

However, in spite of this,  my family is still destroyed. I have moved on for the most part. I work two jobs, and I put myself through college earning a Bachelors degree in 2012. I will retire from the USPS in July of this year after serving over 36 years. I am a happy and kind person.

But I believe with all of my heart that Calvary Temple is a cult. I believe that Calvary Temple is a spiritually abusive and authoritative place. I believe that the congregants are supernaturally blind and I continue to pray that the scales will be removed from their eyes. 

I believe the allegations of sexual and physical abuse of minors, and I believe that Bob Scott thinks that he is above the law. I pray that justice will be served for the children who were harmed as well as for the men and women who have been berated as well as psychologically and spiritually abused. I pray  for the destroyed families like mine.

And I will not stop speaking out.

Comments

How Calvary Temple Caused My Family to Break Apart: A Transparent Personal Testimony — 118 Comments

  1. Dee it was a pleasure to meet Ex-CT on Saturday. She and the others need to know that they are not alone. As I drove away from this I was livid as to the pain, and horror so many families endured. I sat in a Chic Fil A for 30 minutes to 45 just processing what I heard.

    My biggest anger is all this pain hemorrhaging out of CT and all these churches in Tysons Corner, Sterling and Leesburg who are silent. You pass a number of churches just driving up and down Leesburg Pike. That needs to change. The silence by churches toward people like this story is a sad indictment on how some churches are acting like the Priest getting to the temple in the story of the Good Samaritan. They go forward and leave the person broken and wounded alongside the road. How can any pastor lead a church in worship and be silent about this horrific story in their backyard?

    Its disgusting…

  2. Then the unthinkable happened. We parents of the now “Famous Five” (Channing and the other 4 boys who wanted to leave) were counseled by Calvary Temple leadership to treat our sons as if they were dead.

    Just like Scientology, the Disconnect Decree came down from Flag.

  3. You know that was the first time I went to a protest of a church. Interesting! I have to say I have a lot of love and respect for these people. They have gone through hell but they are loving, kind, etc… I can’t imagine any healthy church not wanting these people in their congregation. I just can’t…

  4. That is a problematic place to gather for sure. Why do people put their trust in men and not in God. That is a battle we all have to face for the rest of our lives. We end up hurt rather than blessed when we don’t test men according to scripture. a red flag for me is something called ‘worldliness’ in a church. Basketball games, constant organized prayer….. hmmm. Red flag. A public school may actually be better for children and have family worship at home…..

  5.   __

    “Are Da Good Samaritans On Strike?”

    Krunch !

      “My biggest anger is all this pain hemorrhaging out of CT and all these churches in Tysons Corner, Sterling and Leesburg who are silent. You pass a number of churches just driving up and down Leesburg Pike. That needs to change. The silence by churches toward people like this story is a sad indictment on how some churches are acting like the Priest getting to the temple in the story of the Good Samaritan. They go forward and leave the person broken and wounded alongside the road. How can any pastor lead a church in worship and be silent about this horrific story in their backyard?” ~Eagle

    hmmm…

    Bro,

    This is da burbs of the most powerful ‘city’ on da planet…

    Who’s got time for da ‘scammed religious sucker’ left wounded along da side of the road?

    (They are ‘now’ a dime a dozen)

    Jesus loves “me” this I know, because the Calvery Temple tells me so…

    Tell me another story.

    (sadface)

    Sopy
    __
    Intelligent Relief? : Bing Crosby – “Brother Can You Spare A Dime?”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZ04GL6gNw

  6. Yet another wacky Kristian Kult. On and on it goes. This is insanity. Why are people are so vulnerable to this cult stuff, no matter how clear the red flags are waving. I don’t know what else to say except, people, grow some discernment, read your Bible, and think.

    What is it about “Christianity” that breeds these cults, and the poor folk who get sucked into them. Read the Gospels!

    And every single one of these cults gives real Christianity a black eye. But the unsaved will seize upon these incidents and call it “Christianity”, and mock it. It carries over…

    We live in fallen times…

  7. Eagle wrote:

    My biggest anger is all this pain hemorrhaging out of CT and all these churches in Tysons Corner, Sterling and Leesburg who are silent. You pass a number of churches just driving up and down Leesburg Pike. That needs to change. The silence by churches toward people like this story is a sad indictment on how some churches are acting like the Priest getting to the temple in the story of the Good Samaritan. They go forward and leave the person broken and wounded alongside the road. How can any pastor lead a church in worship and be silent about this horrific story in their backyard?
    Its disgusting…

    Dee says i compare churches a lot to Scientology. I’m going to make another Scientology comparison involving churches, but it’s this comparison: In all the picketing we did in Clearwater and Hemet and LA and other places, no church ever thought it was enough of their problem to come out with us. Instead, going after a mendacious, greedy cult was left to a ragtag group of ex-members and free speech activists. It’s still like that!

  8. Michelle,

    Thank you for telling your story. I know you would do so much over again if you could go back in time. I know I would. Like you, I was so idealistic in my younger years. I was too trusting. When the regrets start to engulf me I think of the Maya Angelou quote, “You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better.” I pray for continued healing for you, your family, and the other ex-members of CT.

  9. Michelle,

    Thank you for sharing your heartbreaking story here. So much of it resonated with me and my cult-like experience. I want to scream when I hear about how instead of loving you and your family, they were all about controlling you and your family to the point that it was torn apart. It is insidious. I’m so, so sorry, Michelle. I hope your story helps many to leave their abusive “churches.”

  10. What a sad story. That’s awful.
    roebuck wrote:

    What is it about “Christianity” that breeds these cults, and the poor folk who get sucked into them.

    I don’t think it’s something particular to Christianity. You see cults rise up in Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc… Something about people getting in groups and trying to be more “special” seems to lead to weird insular beliefs and easy exploitation by a domineering personality. And a lot of times the line between a religion and a cult is very blurry, which means that cults get cover from their more respectable counterpart non-cultish faith.

  11. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    I don’t think it’s something particular to Christianity.

    Yes, you’re right, of course. We just seem to be made more aware of the Christian examples.

    The whole cult thing is always there, and people fall for it. Just wanna be ‘right’? Just wanna stop thinking? I don’t know.

    Thinking is hard. Conclusions are what you seem to come to when you’re just tired of thinking… How weak we all are. We need some Help! 🙂

  12. roebuck wrote:

    What is it about “Christianity” that breeds these cults, and the poor folk who get sucked into them. Read the Gospels!

    My hypothesis is that we see “Christian” cults so much because our particular cultural norms are “Christian”. It would be really hard to start a cult in suburban America based on the teachings of some obscure Eastern Religion because you would struggle getting Joe and Jane Normal to join initially. So, you have to utilize a common language and cultural experience to get them in the door initially.

  13. @ roebuck:
    I think the internet is going to be the greatest help of all for exposing and helping people out of these things. Not long ago a cult would have to be fairly kooky or malevolent to get widespread notice (Scientology, Children of God, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). Now we have social media, easier anonymity, reviews and so forth. Trying to hide aberrant beliefs or behaviors is never going to be as easy again. And thanks to people like the writer here, those cult leaders lose a little more each time the truth is revealed.

    Personal anecdote, many moons ago the church I belonged to was part of that whole “Toronto Blessing” holy laughter movement. Always weirded me out, but the internet was one of the resources I eventually had to figure out that they weren’t run of the mill normal beliefs or secret revelation. 20-30 years earlier would I have found that out or would I have gone along thinking it was fairly normal because most of the dogma was American non-denominational charismatic standard?

  14. Michelle, thank you for sharing your story. I deeply regret the many years that I walked beside you in Calvary Temple and didn’t see the truth either. If only we had talked about some of our observations – perhaps we would have helped one another. Instead, I allowed my eyes to stay closed because I trusted man rather than God. But I am thankful that when I saw the truth not long after you had left CT, you were there to bring me comfort and friendship. I am proud to stand beside you as we fight for the truth to be revealed.

  15. Every sermon I ever preach I specifically state that no one should take my word for it just because I am up front. I tell them that I would love for someone to call me on Monday morning to discuss something I said that they just aren’t seeing themselves in the text. Because; 1) It means they are engaging with the information, and, 2) If I made a mistake, I want to know it!! And, if they don’t have their own Bible, we give them a free one.

    So much of this story, and others we have heard in similar veins, don’t ever get off the ground in the first place with a Biblically literate congregation. While you can most certainly have strong opinions(strident even) coming from different points of view concerning some of the “finer” points of theology, it is virtually impossible to go down the path of, “Shun you children, divorce your husband, i they are not going to “this” church”, type of behaviors.

  16.   __

    “Shaft?”

    hmmm…

    Not unlike Another 501(c)3 religious Chernobyl.

    Take away the safeties (accountability and transparency) and you get (for example)  another SGM or Marshill…

    Stick around and sooner or later you’ll ge da ‘shaft’…

    (sadface)

    Sopy
    __
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiNwGHHHuMI

    ;~)

  17. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    the internet was one of the resources I eventually had to figure out that they weren’t run of the mill normal beliefs or secret revelation.

    Isn’t that the truth! I couldn’t begin to tell you how often during the past few years I’ve read an article or comment on TWW or Julie Anne’s blog and sat in stunned silence as I realized that my cult wasn’t the Speshul Receiver of Divine Knowledge. There’s a reason why many extreme religious groups don’t want their members on the Internet.

  18. Adam Borsay wrote:

    I tell them that I would love for someone to call me on Monday morning to discuss something I said that they just aren’t seeing themselves in the text

    I’ve always felt that a “follow-up” Q&A session would be very beneficial. It could even be available on the following Wed. nite service. It would provide a time of “one anothering” as other issues may surface.

  19. Trust your gut and ALWAYS, Always, always question authority. This is really hard for people who have been brainwashed to never question.

  20. OP quote:

    We were told that in Deuteronomy, rebellious children were taken to the gate and stoned to death. Since we could not legally and literally stone our sons, we were to treat them as dead

    I wonder, if stoning were in fact legal in that part of the country, would that church actually encourage the parents to stone their children, stone the life out of them?

    Why do I get the creepy impression that they’d be all for it and advise it, if it were legal?

    OP quote:

    Every student, boy or girl, had to participate in basketball or cheerleading – there was no choice.

    In Calvary Temple, everyone is expected to attend the following:
    every service,
    prayer nights on Tuesday and Thursday,
    outreaches, basketball games,
    Home Fellowship Groups,
    Men’s breakfast,
    and on and on.

    I got exhausted just reading that and thinking about it.

    I’m too much of a homebody couch potato. That church-cult would’ve totally failed with me.

    Commands or pressure for me by them to get off my rear end and comfy couch, where I watch repeats of Mad Men and the like, would have ended in total failure for them.

    Except possibly for anything food-related. Promise me there will be deep fried anything or chocolate desserts at whatever church cult function, and I will give your invitation deep consideration. Other than that, no.

  21. roebuck wrote:

    Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    I don’t think it’s something particular to Christianity.

    Yes, you’re right, of course. We just seem to be made more aware of the Christian examples.

    Because Protestant Christianity is the largest religion in the country, it’s going to spawn the most cults.

  22. Again, it’s hard to fathom how otherwise rational and intelligent adults get hornswoggled into this kind of horse-manure.

  23. Daisy wrote:

    I wonder, if stoning were in fact legal in that part of the country, would that church actually encourage the parents to stone their children, stone the life out of them?

    Why do I get the creepy impression that they’d be all for it and advise it, if it were legal?

    Because SCRIPTURE!

    (I remember Calvary Chapel Mini-Moses Raul Rees on the radio many years ago. His response to any and every argument was “Show Me SCRIPTURE!” It’s one of the reasons why the word makes me want to puke to this day. Every time I hear it, I think of “Ees Party Line, Comrade”.)

  24. Wow what (another) sad and bad story about an abusive ‘church’. I grieve with you and your losses Michelle. Shattered marriage and family life.

    I really question the number of people who claim to be saved, claim to be going to Heaven, and don’t show it in the actions/treatment of others. They act like they will never die and never meet up with the Lord and face judgment. And I wonder if they will be among the ones whom He will say that He never knew them.

    To tell you to disrespect your husband…wow, that’s a violation of Scripture right there. To not welcome him at his own son’s high school graduation. That’s sick and twisted. Absolutely depraved.

  25.   __

      The Calvery Temple ‘child corporal punishment document’ each parent is required to sign, should be a dead give-away.  Stay-Away !

  26. Now is a good time to post the links to Dr. Ronald Enroth’s books on cults which he has made available for free in electronic version:

    1. Churches That Abuse, link here: http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html

    2. Recovering From Churches That Abuse, link here: http://www.ccel.us/churchesrec.toc.html

    He has studied so much about churches that abuse that he could tell interviewees about the dynamics of their abusive churches before they could tell their stories of spiritual abuse (and other abuses).

    Thank you Dr. Enroth for making your books available for free to hurting folks!

  27. roebuck wrote:

    Yet another wacky Kristian Kult. On and on it goes. This is insanity. Why are people are so vulnerable to this cult stuff, no matter how clear the red flags are waving. I don’t know what else to say except, people, grow some discernment, read your Bible, and think..…

    @Roebuck,
    If you had ever told me that I would have gotten caught up in a conservative, evangelical cultish church, I would have laughed. How did I get in to my former church? They talked a good line about solid doctrine, expositional preaching, elders, the ‘one anothers’, etc. (and Mark Dever’s 9 Marks). My former pastor hung on Pastor John MacArthur’s name (of Grace Community Church in Southern California) and seminary.

    There were many lovely people and lovely events at my former church. It is packed with Ivy League graduates and the best and brightest minds in Silicon Valley.

    There were so many attractive things about my former church and its members. And then there was the dark side:
    *a charismatic, controlling senior pastor
    *cronyism (hand-picked friends as elders and associate pastors, ‘yes’ men)
    *controlling members’ lives
    *demands for blind obedience
    *lying about anyone who questioned them, after first threatening them in closed door meetings and by phone.

    The first person to be excommunicated and shunned was a godly doctor who is a long-time close personal friend of Pastor John MacArthur’s! The godly doctor, married to his wife for 40+ years and a faithful good husband/father/Christian, questioned the pastors/elders about their Biblical errors.

    When I asked other members about the doctor, those members defended the decision of the pastors/elders. Nobody came to his defense. I thought it was wrong that they had dragged his name through the mud and attacked him before all. I knew something was wrong.

    But I didn’t know what to do with that.

    Next, it was my turn to be excommunicated/shunned. My crime? Discovering that a new church member, put in all kinds of leadership positions because he was a friend of the pastors/elders, was a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List. The pastors/elders said he was coming off Megan’s List. His supervising law enforcement agency – the Sheriff’s sex offenders’ task force – called that ‘all lies’ and ‘total lies’. The alarmed Sheriff contacted the California Attorney General’s Office, which runs by state’s Megan’s List. They too confirmed that everything the pastors/elders told me was ‘all lies’ and ‘total lies’.

    The pastors/elders demanded that I apologize to them, for them threatening me and lying to me. They were upset that I called them on it. They banned me from church property and services. Meanwhile a convicted sex offender who has served prison time has been given carte blanche to the church and its children by the pastors/elders, unbeknownst to the parents who think this is a safe church.

    I think many people go to churches with the best of intentions, I did. I wanted to hear The Word of God preached, grow as a Christian, be with other believers.

    I didn’t realize all of the dangerous teachings in seminaries that I would be facing and how unhealthy those beliefs would make my church and my church experience. I’ve uncovered a lot since then. But most people aren’t expecting to have to do all of that just to go to church. I didn’t.

  28. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    What a sad story. That’s awful.
    roebuck wrote:

    What is it about “Christianity” that breeds these cults, and the poor folk who get sucked into them.

    I don’t think it’s something particular to Christianity. You see cults rise up in Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc… Something about people getting in groups and trying to be more “special” seems to lead to weird insular beliefs and easy exploitation by a domineering personality. And a lot of times the line between a religion and a cult is very blurry, which means that cults get cover from their more respectable counterpart non-cultish faith.

    I think that’s correct. I remember reading an article sometime ago, whose author observed that superfundamentalist Christians are closer to superfundamentalist Muslims who are closer to super fundamentalist Jews who are closer to…& I exclaimed (out loud, to a startled cat) “to the kind of superfundamentalist Hindu who murdered Mahatma Gandhi”!
    There are cults everywhere & it is harder & harder to tell which group of folk will turn into yet another one…We all need to stay wider awake.

  29. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Every time I hear it, I think of “Ees Party Line, Comrade”.)

    If I ever get good enough at editing photos, I’ll make some of Fundagelical Royalty that look like Soviet propaganda posters, and I’ll dedicate them to you. 😀

  30. Reading Michelle’s story I hope for healing for Michelle and her family and wish a swift destruction for CT. It is hard to imagine so much personal carnage caused by this man and his organization.
    A year ago my difficulty was that I couldn’t understand how someone could be responsible for tearing apart so many relationships, either directly or indirectly, and not be tormented by it. That was before I discovered how narcissism destroys a person on the inside and results in someone incapable of compassion. They appear to be drawn like a magnet to positions of unrivaled power that can be found in churches full of trusting people.
    Thanks Michelle for you very honest report, I wish there was something I could say that would help. Hopefully your story can be added to others and by its power can open more eyes and thereby relieve or prevent the torment of others.

  31. Thanks for sharing your story Michelle. I am sorry for all the pain and heartbreak you and your family have been through. Peace be with you.

    “I had a dream the other night, a powerful and interesting dream. And the really frustrating thing about it is that I can’t remember what it was about. I had a flash of it as I woke up, enough to make me think how extraordinary and meaningful it was; and then it was gone. And so, to misquote T.S. Eliot, I had the meaning but missed the experience.

    Our passion for justice often seems like that. We dream the dream of justice. We glimpse, for a moment, a world at one, a world put to rights, a world where things work out, where societies function healthily, where I not only know what I ought to do but actually do it. And then we wake up and come back to reality. But what are we hearing when we are dreaming that dream?

    It is as though we can hear, not perhaps a voice itself, but the echo of a voice: a voice speaking with calm, healing authority, speaking about justice, about things being put to rights, about peace and hope and prosperity for all. The voice continues to echo in our imagination, our subconscious. We want to go back and listen to it all again, but having woken up, we can’t get back into the dream. Other people sometimes tell us it was just a fantasy, and we are half inclined to believe them, even though that condemns us to cynicism.

    But the voice goes on, calling us, beckoning us, luring us to think that maybe there might be such a thing as justice, as the world being put to rights, even though we find it so elusive. We are like moths trying to fly to the moon. We all know there is something called justice, but we can’t quite get to it.”

    Tom Wright, “Simply Christian,” page 3

  32. Daisy wrote:

    I wonder, if stoning were in fact legal in that part of the country, would that church actually encourage the parents to stone their children, stone the life out of them?

    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition. I don’t know what church he was attending when he wrote the book, but I did read that he had attended Missouri Baptist College.

  33. Pingback: “I allowed my family to be destroyed” | Civil Commotion

  34. Michaela wrote:

    Now is a good time to post the links to Dr. Ronald Enroth’s books on cults which he has made available for free in electronic version:
    1. Churches That Abuse, link here: http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html
    2. Recovering From Churches That Abuse, link here: http://www.ccel.us/churchesrec.toc.html
    He has studied so much about churches that abuse that he could tell interviewees about the dynamics of their abusive churches before they could tell their stories of spiritual abuse (and other abuses).
    Thank you Dr. Enroth for making your books available for free to hurting folks!

    @Michaela

    Ron Enroth’s books were invaluable to me and others who have left CT. There are so many books out there on the subject, but another book that really helped me was The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse By: David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. A friend, the mother of a family who had left CT after “High Priest Bob” (HPB) married Greer, wanted to leave Ron Enroth’s book (Churches that Abuse) for me. They were moving out of state to get their children away from Calvary Temple (I have that story, too), and she was going to drop the book off at my doorstep, but her husband told her that it wouldn’t make any difference unless I was “seeing”…and he was right. More years passed until the scales were removed.

    As I promised, one piece of their story: this dear family left CT after Bob married Greer. They had two sons around the same ages as my boys. Mike McMahon Gardner drove to their house, banged on their front door, and when the father opened the door, Mike proceeded to demand that he hand over their two boys to him…yes, your jaw should have dropped open…of course he shut the door in Mike’s face. I did not find out about any of this until after I left CT and this family felt comfortable talking to me again…

    I want to thank everyone for your remarks and your kind response to my story…mine is just one of hundreds…

    I will keep speaking out…this must end!

    @ Ellen

    I love you!

    @ Eagle, Dee and Deb

    Thank you!

  35. Participation to the point of exhaustion. Bleeding of congregants through forced donations. Snitching culture. Breaking up of families. Public castigation of those who have “fallen away”. And just to top it off, a “high priest” who lives like a king. (Or should that be, “like a robber baron”?)

    That’s pretty much all of the hallmarks of a cult…

    Thank you so much for the courage to share your story, Michelle. I hope that it will make many people think, and that the knowledge of your experience will keep them safe from wolves like Scott. Please take care of yourself, and may you find healing for your own heart, and for your relationships with those you love.

  36. @ Marsha:
    That is messed up. Now, how does one escape a religious cult that is influencing the law? It’s the stuff of nightmares for me. The scriptures about parents stoning rebellious kids was used in my former cult to keep even adult children in check.

  37. Marsha wrote:

    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition

    That makes me sick. Has this craziness always been around and when did it almost become “mainstream?” Years ago someone who spouted this hatred would have been assumed to be crazy. Now they garner awards.

    I feel baffled that supposed Christian ministries are cults, but it doesn’t surprise me. I could be involved in one.

    Now there are famous pastors who live lavish like styles such as Ed Young or Kenneth “measles party” Copeland. They feel no shame for their lavish lifestyle and they let you know what they are all about, but people continue to fund those planes and mansions because they hope in these gurus. This is completely irrational, but just the same, I have been there and done that.

  38. BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

    The scriptures about parents stoning rebellious kids was used in my former cult to keep even adult children in check.

    The usual verses quoted on this are: Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9 and Deuteronomy 21:18

    Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

    For every one who curses his father or his mother shall be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his blood is upon him.

    If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, `This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    None of these texts makes any reference to a “child” or to “children” – adult offspring who had reached the age of accountability and who were totally out of control were in mind, and subject due process before any punishment could be inflicted. I don’t think there is any record of this being carried out.

    Most importantly, we are not under the law of Moses, we are not theocratic Israel. How can supposedly bible-believing Christians who teach this is for today be so hopelessly dense as to be unable to see this? Perhaps they are actually still dead in trespasses and sins, and are no more able to ‘see’ this than the inhabitants of your local cemetary resting in peace.

  39. @ roebuck: sadly it is all too easy. All you need is someone looking for a place to belong and then get people to invest their time and love until they are in too deep. Once that has happened leaving is hard, just like an abusive relationship.

  40. Mark wrote:

    Marsha wrote:
    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition

    That makes me sick. Has this craziness always been around and when did it almost become “mainstream?” Years ago someone who spouted this hatred would have been assumed to be crazy. Now they garner awards.

    It’s called Take Back America And Establish A Truly Godly CHRISTIAN Nation, PRAISE GOD!!!! 200-year Quiverfull breeding plans and all!

    It’s all in “SCRIPTURE! SCRIPTURE! SCRIPTURE! SCRIPTURE! SCRIPTURE!”

    “If you question what I say to you,
    You rebel against The Father too…”
    — Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”

  41. Ken wrote:

    None of these texts makes any reference to a “child” or to “children” – adult offspring who had reached the age of accountability and who were totally out of control were in mind, and subject due process before any punishment could be inflicted. I don’t think there is any record of this being carried out.

    This is called an “ad terrorem” law — a harsh law that’s on the books but never actually carried out, to show just how serious the offense is.

    Most importantly, we are not under the law of Moses, we are not theocratic Israel. How can supposedly bible-believing Christians who teach this is for today be so hopelessly dense as to be unable to see this? Perhaps they are actually still dead in trespasses and sins, and are no more able to ‘see’ this than the inhabitants of your local cemetary resting in peace.

    As Calvary Chapel Pastor Raul Rees would answer to that (and ANY argument that didn’t agree 1000% with him):
    “Show me the SCRIPTURE!”

  42. Marsha wrote:

    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition.

    One of my writing partners (the burned-out preacher) told me of a really scary Christian Reconstructionist/Theonomist site that was full of SCRIPTURAL(TM) stuff like that. The site’s name? “GOD HATH SAID!”

    P.S. Does God have any reason for existence other than to “PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH!”?

  43. A quick google search yields that Charlie Fuqua ran for a house seat in 2012 and was badly defeated. Running under the R label in a state that is now 2 to 1 R in the state house, he received less than 30% of the vote. So I’m guessing he was viewed by many as a whacko.
    He did serve four years back in the 90’s but that was before the book in question and not much may have been known about him. I don’t put much stock in voters but it appears Arkansas voters have more sense than the Arkansas Christian Coalition.

  44. @ ex-CTer:

    Ex-CTer! You rock!! We need to get some of those other stories told. There is so much to talk about with CT. I mean consider:

    1. You can do a post about Bob Scott’s finances.
    2. You can do a post about the AOG in this mess.
    3. A post about all the child sex abuse allegations.
    4. The Loudon County Sherriff’s Office (LCSO) and whether or not there is corruption which has shut down previous investigations.
    5. CT’s activities in Kenya. How Kenya has responded and how the US exports more cults like CT.
    6. The legal tactics such as stalking and restraining orders that CT uses against people who have left.
    7. Star Scott’s finances and race car ministry alone.
    8. Former CT members efforts to get help from other churches in the Sterling, Tysons Corner or Leesburg area.
    on and one it goes!

    There is one thing that I believe is important above all else. The pressure needs to be applied and kept on CT for the duration. There can be no let up. It needs to stay consistent, and on the activities of this church.

  45. Bill M wrote:

    That was before I discovered how narcissism destroys a person on the inside and results in someone incapable of compassion. They appear to be drawn like a magnet to positions of unrivaled power that can be found in churches full of trusting people.

    Great comment.

  46. Muff Potter wrote:

    Again, it’s hard to fathom how otherwise rational and intelligent adults get hornswoggled into this kind of horse-manure.

    I have several theories:
    1. Our society is somewhat fractured – especially in the DC area, which is very transient, it is hard to put down roots, make real friends, etc. So a church which offers “instant family” has some appeal.
    2. People are trying to follow the Lord wholeheartedly. While I see “shun the person who leaves” as a HUGE red flag, if you are told that the “shake the dust off your feet” passages mean just this, you will be inclined to do it even if it is hard because who says following the Lord would be easy? (My husband was involved – years ago – in a Christian cult and these two things were what sucked him in and made it hard to leave. When he finally left, he went from having friends who would help him out in a heartbeat to not knowing who he could call if he had a flat tire…)
    And finally,
    3. The conservative Christian wing needs to quit maligning public education! When you are trying to do your best for your kids, and the people you respect tell you that putting them in public school basically means that you don’t care about your children, then you are vulnerable to all sorts of kooky beliefs – and your children are at risk too! Putting my kids in the local school system (after homeschooling and then Christian school) was the best thing for them socially, and educationally, and has not damaged them spiritually.

  47. Marsha wrote:

    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition.

    I would like to find out more about this.

  48. @ Marsha:
    Good night! That didn’t take long.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/11/jon-hubbard-governor-arkansas-mike-beebe_n_1959215.html

    “The Republican Arkansas state legislator, who created a firestorm with past writings in which he says slavery may have been a “blessing,” has accused the Democratic governor and state attorney general of “Nazi-style political intimidation.”

    State Rep. Jon Hubbard (R-Jonesboro) wrote a letter to The Jonesboro Sun, published Thursday, saying Gov. Mike Beebe and Attorney General Dustin McDaniel are leading a “Democratic political machine” opposing Hubbard, and two other legislative candidates whose writing also has recently led to controversy.

    Hubbard accused Beebe and McDaniel of trying to destroy a fundraiser for state legislative candidate Charlie Fuqua (R). In a new book, Fuqua proposed establishing the death penalty for rebellious children and sterilizing those stripped of their parental rights, along with suggesting that all Muslims be deported.

    Hubbard also said Beebe and McDaniel have hurt state Rep. Loy Mauch (R-Bismarck), who has written a series of letters defending slavery and comparing Lincoln and Civil War generals to Nazis.”

  49. Through a glass darkly wrote:

    1. Our society is somewhat fractured – especially in the DC area, which is very transient, it is hard to put down roots, make real friends, etc. So a church which offers “instant family” has some appeal.

    This is SO true!!!! I actually want to write a post about this at my blog. I’ve lived in CA, MT, WI and the DC area. And of all the places I have lived DC is the loneliest place I have lived. There is no stability here…people move in and out. I’ve lived here for 1o years and really have no community for the most part. The friends I have now have told me they will be leaving in the next year or so…and that’s how life is here in DC.

    People need community. It helps keep them stable and in check. That is missing from this area. What makes it worse is the evangelical church culture in this area. Some churches get enamored with the DC area and let the area get to their head. They think “Culture wars…”,”politics”, “family values” etc… Others have let the power get to their head. THEY want to be the church in the DC area so they fight each other in doing church plants, or being wrapped up in growth. One of the reasons why I walked away from Fairfax Community Church in Fairfax, Virginia is because the church became consumed with growth. People in Fairfax are falling through the cracks. And against all this Fairfax Community is pursuing a church plant in Clarksburg, MD and pouring its resources (and asking people to tithe more BTW…) when they can’t take care of people in their midst. I like to call it the “McLean Bible Syndrome” But this also is an issue in the DC area.

    But man you comment is spot on. Now in the atheist community they are a little more tight knit. I found it easier to get involved in that than in Christian churches. However, that said….I went to a few atheist events and never dived into it head first.

  50. dee wrote:

    Marsha wrote:
    Charlie Fuqua, a former member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, wrote a book in 2012 called ‘God’s Law’ in which he argued for a legal process to be set up where parents of rebellious children could apply for and get legal approval to execute their rebellious children. While in office, he received the ‘Friend of the Family’ award from the Arkansas Christian Coalition.
    I would like to find out more about this.

    So would I. That is totally chilling, particularly when you consider what is classed ‘rebellion’ among such people. Scary.

  51. @ Eagle:

    One more thing I believe this is the reason why the Mormon Church and Sovereign Grace have done so well here. They have capitalized on the turbulence and transient nature of the area. I’d bet Calvary Temple had done that as well. And for a narcissist like Star Scott to come to the DC area?!? 😯 It’s a perfect place for him to be… Maybe this is part of reason why this area drives me nuts. I am not a type A personality. Part of the reason why I blog so much is because of the community I can find here. It’s hard to find that in person here in DC. It was never and issue in California, Montana or Wisconsin. Here it is…

    You know the other thing about being in this area and being lonely? I’ve noticed something that deeply disturbs me. From time to time in the news, whether it be WTOP or the Washington Post there is a story of a person who moved here…succeeded and thrived. They lived their life out alone here and then die with no family, relatives, etc.. And when they die they bequeath their property to the cities of Arlington, Alexandria, etc…

  52. Through a glass darkly wrote:

    The conservative Christian wing needs to quit maligning public education!

    There is no one size fits all in this issue. Public schools in this school system range from really good to really needs help, based on end of grade testing and state evaluations. And christian schools range from traditional/classical/academic to how on earth did they get approved to function in the first place. I don’t know about homeschooling situations, but the lady on the next corner homeschools hers with excellent results (according to what I am told) while some other kids have been put back in school after attempts at homeschooling and had to have remediation in some areas (again what I am told by a teacher who has had to deal with some of this.)

    But there are no ‘ifs’ about how to handle these people who are trying to tell you what to do. The kids are minors; the parents are the decision makers. The people trying to tell you what to do are busybodies. The bible has something to say about women who go from house to house minding other people’s business. You might want to memorize that and slap them up side the head with it. That would be 1 Tim 5:13. More power to ya.

  53. Eagle wrote:

    @ Eagle:
    One more thing I believe this is the reason why the Mormon Church and Sovereign Grace have done so well here. They have capitalized on the turbulence and transient nature of the area. I’d bet Calvary Temple had done that as well. And for a narcissist like Star Scott to come to the DC area?!? It’s a perfect place for him to be… Maybe this is part of reason why this area drives me nuts. I am not a type A personality. Part of the reason why I blog so much is because of the community I can find here. It’s hard to find that in person here in DC. It was never and issue in California, Montana or Wisconsin. Here it is…
    You know the other thing about being in this area and being lonely? I’ve noticed something that deeply disturbs me. From time to time in the news, whether it be WTOP or the Washington Post there is a story of a person who moved here…succeeded and thrived. They lived their life out alone here and then die with no family, relatives, etc.. And when they die they bequeath their property to the cities of Arlington, Alexandria, etc…

    @ Eagle

    Your theory works for the most part, except for the fact that not many “new” people have ventured into Calvary Temple…which, BTW, has been one of my prayers because of the very fact that the DC Metro area is so transient…Calvary Temple has NOT grown, but in fact, has dwindled. When I left at the end of 2007 there were approximately 400 members…now? Maybe 275 to 300…a victory, for sure…but we have a long ways to go. Incidentally, that Calvary Temple “free” car show that we were protesting this past Saturday? I am very happy to announce that even though we’ve only been protesting for 3 weeks, the attendance was about HALF of what they had last year! That is a major victory! We must keep the pressure up! You all at TWW and the readers here are helping this cause…thank you!!

  54. @ Todd Wilhelm:
    Love this. Great book. But no matter how elusive or imperfect we must strive for justice as believers. Even in small m@ Bill M:
    Thank you. To put him out there as some sort of typical Christian example in gov is OTT.

  55. Through a glass darkly wrote:

    3. The conservative Christian wing needs to quit maligning public education!

    @ Through a glass darkly

    I just wanted to let you know that at the time my husband and I made the decision to not put our boys in the public school system, we were living in Fauquier County, a farming community of Northern Virginia. At that time, the dropout rate was almost 80%. I grew up in the public system, but my husband attended the Parochial system of the Catholic Church. I can honestly say that every parent has to make that decision for themselves. I actually think that the Loudoun County public school system is an excellent system. Looking back, I wish that I had put them in the public system…Channing actually did very well, and I am sure that my oldest would have too…I will never know though, unfortunately…

    I wish you all the best…

    Michelle Freeman a.k.a. ex-CTer

  56. @ Eagle:
    People do need community, it’s one of the things I miss about churches. They’re great for socialization. I belong to a few atheist communities online, but that’s not the same as being in person with others. My state doesn’t have any of the really organized atheist communities (Sure I could start one, but I’m lazy) so the wife and I miss out on that.

  57. Beakerj wrote:

    So would I. That is totally chilling, particularly when you consider what is classed ‘rebellion’ among such people. Scary.

    As in…
    “If you question anything I do
    You rebel against The Father too!”
    — Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”
    ?

  58. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    Sure I could start one, but I’m lazy) so the wife and I miss out on that.

    Have you guys ever thought abut joining a book club? I have some friends who do that and enjoy the discussion and fellowship.

  59. ex-CTer wrote:

    I can honestly say that every parent has to make that decision for themselves.

    I agree with this statement. I know parents who have their kids in all sorts of variations of education. So long as the kids are thriving, I do not think it matters.

  60. @ ex-CTer:
    Thank you for your incredibly transparent post. I am sure it was hard to write it all down. But, I know it is going to help lots of people. I am in awe at your honesty.

    I would love to meet you when I come to Baltimore in June. I will have my days free and am willing to drive. This offer extends to everyone on the blog in that area. I am also hoping to arrange another SGM reunion like last year. However, I will not wear white pants and drop Smashburger sauce all over me this time.

  61. Beakerj wrote:

    So would I. That is totally chilling, particularly when you consider what is classed ‘rebellion’ among such people. Scary.

    Guess what? I already found a bunch of articles and put them in a draft. And yes, he did encourage killing a rebellious child! AACKK!

  62. To our readers:

    The time table for the breaking story has been moved up to this Friday. However, I may not publish until Monday because there are going to be events surrounding the story. Hold onto you hats. When you hear this one, you will never, ever sign a membership agreement and you will think twice about attending a certain group of churches.

    This is a story that needs to be told. Plus we have the goods (proof) of what transpired. Pray that God gives me and a friend of TWW who discovered the situation level heads in the next few days. We are both deeply upset that such a thing could happen.

    Please pray for a very brave person who did the right thing, is doing the right thing and is getting punished by the church for doing so. The church should be ashamed.

  63. dee wrote:

    I will not wear white pants and drop Smashburger sauce all over me this time.

    The Smashberger was worth the spill, wasn’t it?

  64. @ dee:

    I think of what Hillary Clinton once said. “It takes a village to raise a child..” Cough, cough, cough… 😉

  65. Regarding the thread of comments related to homeschooling…

    It should always be a parental decision on how they educate their kids(within reason).

    BUT

    Choosing to homeschool out of ONLY a hyper religious thought process is problematic. While there are some less than quality public schools out there and I can understand parents with the education and the means choosing to opt out, there are also many high quality schools in nearly every region in the US. In Ohio most of our school districts have open enrollment. Meaning, you can swap in and out of different schools as you see fit. I knew a number of kids who switched(mainly in highschool) to take advantage of high level programming in relation to an area of interest/ability.

    I was personally a high level student and my mother, with all of her strengths, could not have taught me calculus in 10th grade. VERY few parents have the ability to TRULY educate their kids much beyond middle school.

    As an addendum—Disclaimer that I myself lean towards the reformed end of the spectrum—I find the hard core Calvinists insistence on christian schools and homeschool highly hypocritical. If Joe Jr is elect, shouldn’t matter where he goes to school. Heck, if he is elect, than you SHOULD send him to public school so he can testify to everyone else. And if he isn’t elect, your just spending a lot of time and energy for nothing…..

  66. Adam Borsay wrote:

    Heck, if he is elect, than you SHOULD send him to public school so he can testify to everyone else. And if he isn’t elect, your just spending a lot of time and energy for nothing…..

    I hope this was tongue and cheek . . . if not, it comes across as if the child is a pawn in a game.

  67. @Eagle – one good thing about how CLC used to be was that people were encouraged to stay in the church (that’s not the good part), but people pretty much stayed in the church for a long time so you had a consistent community. The culture at the church is different now, so many people have moved out of state.

  68. @ Adam Borsay:

    I don’t want to take this too off topic, but I just wanted to pop in and say as a parent homeschooling her high school Sophomore and 8th grader (with plans to homeschool both through high school), I agree that some topics are beyond my expertise. There are so many outside options though – the choices aren’t teach it myself or send them to high school. There are excellent online classes, community college classes, co-ops, apprenticeships, and really any creative way you can come up with to address the topic at hand. Homeschooling is so popular now that the resources are endless.

    Of course (and I think this is the point you were stressing), if you are trying to shelter your teen from the outside world due to strict ideology, those outside resources would be suspect and less likely to be utilized.

  69. Eagle wrote:

    Through a glass darkly wrote:

    1. Our society is somewhat fractured – especially in the DC area, which is very transient, it is hard to put down roots, make real friends, etc. So a church which offers “instant family” has some appeal.

    This is SO true!!!! I actually want to write a post about this at my blog. I’ve lived in CA, MT, WI and the DC area. And of all the places I have lived DC is the loneliest place I have lived. There is no stability here…people move in and out. I’ve lived here for 1o years and really have no community for the most part. The friends I have now have told me they will be leaving in the next year or so…and that’s how life is here in DC.

    People need community. It helps keep them stable and in check. That is missing from this area. What makes it worse is the evangelical church culture in this area. Some churches get enamored with the DC area and let the area get to their head. They think “Culture wars…”,”politics”, “family values” etc… Others have let the power get to their head. THEY want to be the church in the DC area so they fight each other in doing church plants, or being wrapped up in growth. One of the reasons why I walked away from Fairfax Community Church in Fairfax, Virginia is because the church became consumed with growth. People in Fairfax are falling through the cracks. And against all this Fairfax Community is pursuing a church plant in Clarksburg, MD and pouring its resources (and asking people to tithe more BTW…) when they can’t take care of people in their midst. I like to call it the “McLean Bible Syndrome” But this also is an issue in the DC area.

    But man you comment is spot on. Now in the atheist community they are a little more tight knit. I found it easier to get involved in that than in Christian churches. However, that said….I went to a few atheist events and never dived into it head first.

    Doesn’t this make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside! 😛

    All kidding aside, I’ve lived a very transient life myself, & I still don’t understand why people don’t say, “Hey, we should take the community we can get, & be there for each other!”

  70. dee wrote:
    <blockquote"….I am also hoping to arrange another SGM reunion like last year. However, I will not wear white pants and drop Smashburger sauce all over me this time.

    Why oh why when I am wearing white (even linen) do I always end up having and wearing Italian sauce on me?

  71. dee wrote:

    To our readers:
    The time table for the breaking story has been moved up to this Friday. However, I may not publish until Monday because there are going to be events surrounding the story….When you hear this one, you will never, ever sign a membership agreement and you will think twice about attending a certain group of churches….Please pray for a very brave person who did the right thing, is doing the right thing and is getting punished by the church for doing so. The church should be ashamed.

    Praying for Dee and Deb and The Brave Person. As always, a million thanks for The Wartburg Watch! It’s a wonderful ministry you have…helping the wounded.

  72. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    @ Eagle:
    People do need community, it’s one of the things I miss about churches. They’re great for socialization. I belong to a few atheist communities online, but that’s not the same as being in person with others. My state doesn’t have any of the really organized atheist communities (Sure I could start one, but I’m lazy) so the wife and I miss out on that.

    I am surprised at how many of my former students who grew up in a church are now atheist.
    As one of my ex-students said, he ” was amazed at how fast people his age are running from religion.” He is 32, two college degrees, a job most would give their eye teeth for, and he, while raised in the church no longer believes. He, his wife and child use Sunday morning for ” family time and pancakes” and as he says, ” we couldn’t be happier.”
    And the church today, specifically the leadership is to blame. At some point, the church has to progress, not regress.

  73. Members of a church in Texas starved a little boy for over 20 days.

    This was some sort of exorcism ritual, because the preacher felt the boy was possessed. When the boy died, they performed a ceremony to try to bring him back to life.

    They did not alert any authorities as to his passing and took the body to Mexico.

    “Child in ‘raising ceremony’ starved more than 20 days”
    http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/14/arrest-warrant-raising-ceremony-child-death-mexico/25778451/

    From the article:
    “Members of the church believe Mrs. Meza can talk directly to God.”

  74. “I am surprised at how many of my former students who grew up in a church are now atheist.
    As one of my ex-students said, he ” was amazed at how fast people his age are running from religion.” He is 32, two college degrees, a job most would give their eye teeth for, and he, while raised in the church no longer believes. He, his wife and child use Sunday morning for ” family time and pancakes” and as he says, ” we couldn’t be happier.”
    And the church today, specifically the leadership is to blame. At some point, the church has to progress, not regress.”

    I found it strange back in the day when I was given the left foot of fellowship and the faith truly made it clear that I am scum and God hates me, something I dont deny, it was an online atheist that told me to stay with the faith and not to leave because of emotion. He seem to know me and said it is a mistake to make major changes when upset. My faith community would have been just fine if I became an atheist, they already saw me that way. This man who happened to be an atheist offered to let me call him on his dime and he lived on a different continent, it was made very clear dont do that.

    Being a Christian as been extremely painful and terrifying. At almost every single swing I fear the wrath of God because He is so angry at humanity, Jesus’ death sort of toned that down a little tiny bit for a very very very very very very very few. For the rest we are guilty of Jesus being killed and his blood is on our soul along with all the other blood of family members we did not witness to and they died and went to hell etc.

    I have tried so hard to be a good follower of Christ. Sad to say that is not possible for most of us it is not in the cards.

  75. @ dee:

    @ Dee

    Eagle shared with us “ex-CTers” that you would be in Baltimore this June…we (I) am already looking at our calendars…we (I) can’t wait to meet you! We are all so very thankful that TWW is “shouting” about what Bob Scott and Calvary Temple are…let’s do this!!!

  76. Michaela wrote:

    Why oh why when I am wearing white (even linen) do I always end up having and wearing Italian sauce on me?

    Looks like you should try a “doesn’t show sauce” color instead.

  77. @ dee:
    Oh my, I can see the one I’ve set aside out of the corner of my eye, looking forward to even more understanding why I haven’t signed.
    I look at them as purely human documents and I could likely give a pretty lively argument against them, but it would also be in purely human terms.
    It would be great if one of our more rigorous theological types could hammer out some good reasoning to deep six these signed documents. I’ll have to look around to see if someone already has.

  78. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Michaela wrote:

    Why oh why when I am wearing white (even linen) do I always end up having and wearing Italian sauce on me?

    Looks like you should try a “doesn’t show sauce” color instead.

    Yes, navy blue and black do wonders to hide Italian sauce. Backup plan when it all goes wrong: Oxyclean.

  79. CT people (present and former) do NOT feel bad, ashamed, or guilty about being caught up in what was going on! Satan is at work. He is attacking all churches, whether it’s the people or the preacher/leaders. Just as the person who stood up for public schools I feel that I have to stand up for the main stream churches because we as a church (the people) do have a voice. I have searched enough to know that you can be in a church where these things do not happen – keep searching until you find that church and don’t be surprised if you need to do it later – again. Satan does not want us to be close to Jesus. Don’t let him win!

    Be bold in your stand against Scott and his “captains”! If you were abused mentally or verbally join this support group. If you were abused physically, PLEASE be strong enough to go to the authorities and be a voice. You will be helping children and women to not have to go through what you went through.

    CT – don’t think that you were weak in following Scott. I have been in a marriage where the husband was also very charismatic and believable until I discovered his lies. We can be sucked up if we want to find that perfect person in any situation. We Christians want to see Jesus so badly that sometimes we believe we are seeing Him in our shepherd who is leading us – astray.

    CT parishioners – you were innocent. It was not a sign of weakness. It happens to strong people too. I know because I used to work with Michelle. She is very strong – and intelligent. She loved her family so much and was proud of her boys. She loved her husband. Every anniversary she would bring in her wedding album to share. I know how she must be hurting.

    And to Michelle – you know who I am. I won’t use this forum to advertise. You only need to google my name and I will show up as owner of our business of maybe another 2 years. I would love to rekindle our friendship and give you a respite here so you can relax and enjoy the peace that surrounds us “out here”. I love you and I miss you and I admire you for taking a stand. Call me.

  80. brian wrote:

    Being a Christian as been extremely painful and terrifying. At almost every single swing I fear the wrath of God because He is so angry at humanity, Jesus’ death sort of toned that down a little tiny bit for a very very very very very very very few. For the rest we are guilty of Jesus being killed and his blood is on our soul along with all the other blood of family members we did not witness to and they died and went to hell etc.

    I’m going to echo a former pastor of mine who used to say ‘the gospel is supposed to be good news, not bad news’.

    Now it is true that the bible talks about the wrath (or anger) of God, but this is directed at the evil and nasty things people do to each other, the breakdown in human relationships into selfishness and pride.

    There is a sense in which God loves the entire human race, and Jesus willingly died to bear the wrath of God against our sin – enough to cover the sin of all men everywhere. The old-fashioned word for this is propitiation, and it is good news that God’s wrath has been turned aside from us if we put our faith in Christ, and God himself provided the means of averting his wrath. So it is good news that God himself provided the means to turn his justified wrath against us away. When a man turns to God for forgiveness, he stops being angry with him.

    The onus is on us to take hold of this salvation, I don’t think God wants us to go on a guilt trip over our relatives and friends, and has not authorised pastors to burden anyone with this.

    There is more good news in that multitudes are being reconciled to God through the gospel, not ‘very very few’, and for all eternity to boot. The Jews invoked the guilt of shedding his blood upon themselves as Jesus was being crucified, but I believe God heard his dying prayer ‘forgive them, they don’t know what they’re doing’.

    Sorry if this seems a bit preachy, but you seem to have been presented with a God more like a Victorian headmaster, an angry fault-finder, a God who is against men rather than a God who is for men. Now it’s true we do need forgiveness and need to face the wrong we have done, in that sense there is ‘bad news’, but this is like night before dawn and the coming of day, and should never take precedence over the good news and the liberty it can bring. It really is the most wonderful thing in all the world.

    The ‘days’ of Genesis, or what precisely women’s ministry should be are mere storms in a teacup compared to the greatness of what God has done for us through the gospel, and the revelation of a good God who is approachable, kind, and patient.

  81.   __

    brian,

    hey,

      If it was about the turn of a friendly card, you’d be toast.  But because God accepted Jesus’ work on the tree, He could rend the temple curtain and bid folk enter in without fear.

    So, Stop drinking the wacky 501(c)3 religion. O.K.

    SKreeeeeeeeetch !

      Because God forgave us in Christ, we can enter into the grace of God and receive His eternal life.

      Please stay away from those who try to rob you of this good news. There are many out there who will cr@p on you. Don’t let um. You are too important to God, to let that happen…

    God so love you, that He sent His Son…

    If you can’t swim fella…Get in da boat.

    You can help us row!

    (grin)

    ATB

    Sopy

  82. @ Beth:
    This is why I support all forms of schooling. We need to find the situation that works for our family. For example, when my daughter was struggling with her brain tumor, i decided that a Christian school would be the best solution for my family which was struggling with doctor’s appointments, fear, etc.

    When I volunteered as a tour guide at the school, I used to tell the parents who were considering the school to think hard about all the choices available to them. I told them if they were beating their heads against a wall trying to make a particular form of education work for their family, then they should think about other options. Also, it could be that one solution works for a few years, and another one works better later on.

  83. Daisy wrote:

    “Members of the church believe Mrs. Meza can talk directly to God.”

    Egads!!!!

    There is an old saying in the Boston area about the wealthy Cabot and Lodge families who were important in that region for a long time.

    “In Boston, the home of baked beans and scrod
    The Cabots talk to the Lodges
    And the Lodges talk only to God.”

  84. @ brian:

    I am truly becoming concerned for you. I hope that you are getting help from a counselor.

    I do not think that blogs are the best place for you to get help. We are not in a position to intervene in a way that would be appropriate. Please talk with your primary care doctor or go to an urgent care center.

    This is the number of a Crisis Hot Line
    800-273-8255
    http://www.crisiscallcenter.org/crisisservices.html

  85. Bill M wrote:

    It would be great if one of our more rigorous theological types could hammer out some good reasoning to deep six these signed documents.

    I doubt you will find much. Trying to protect themselves against a lawsuit trumps theology.

    Wait until you read the story that is about to break. It should be the final proof why people should not sign one of these agreements.

  86. Thanks Dee for the suggestion I am under a care of a doctor for chronic pain etc. I did go a bit over the top. But I am actually doing ok I just often really share maybe a bit to much here. Thanks again. brian

  87. brian,

    If you’re still reading here, I would like to encourage you to check out the sermons of Tullian Tchivijian on the liberate.org site. I got put onto him by Chris Rosebrough on his Fighting for the Faith podcast, as well as TGC stink from last year when Tullian got the left boot of disfellowship. Listening to these guys as well as Ron Rosenbladt, I feel like I’m just now starting to really understand the Gospel for the first time in my life.

    If taught accurately, the gospel sounds great. But if Christianity turns out to be about leaving you on the treadmill of works while worrying every day about your election and/or assurance, then I’m done. I can’t live that way. I’ve seen others trapped in that spiritual sinkhole and I want no part of it. I’d rather ditch Christianity altogether and risk my eternal fate by being an agnostic.

    Guilt, sadness, fear, hopelessness. If anyone’s religion leaves them like that, there’s something wrong with it. There is no point clinging to such things, just in case it *might* get us on God’s good side. If the only possible way to salvation is floundering in lifelong misery, if the true Supreme Being really is like this, we’re doomed anyway. Might as well eat, drink, and be merry.

    “Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.”

    “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

    Not only is justification completely Christ’s doing, but so is our sanctification. And future glorification. Christ did it all. This takes us beyond hope, into freedom and joy in Him. I find that tremendously encouraging; I hope you can too.

  88. Eagle wrote:

    How can any pastor lead a church in worship and be silent about this horrific story in their backyard?

    “These N Pastors said one to another,
    ‘Pastor unto Pastor o’er the world is Brother’…”
    — filk of G.K.Chesterton’s “Ballad of the Battle of Gibeon”

  89. @ dee:
    I heard about it on my atheist RSS feed before anywhere else. If I can offer a perspective I have and I think some share, I wouldn’t consider these normal “Christians”. More it just leads to thoughts of how various religions can be a garden for sadness like this.

  90. @ Albuquerque Blue:
    I consider you our resident friendly atheist. If you would ever like to write something about this for us, I think it would be fascinating. Thank you, as always, for being kind and thoughtful.

  91. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    @ dee:
    I heard about it on my atheist RSS feed before anywhere else. If I can offer a perspective I have and I think some share, I wouldn’t consider these normal “Christians”. More it just leads to thoughts of how various religions can be a garden for sadness like this.

    AB, once again, thank you for your participation here.

  92. dee wrote:

    Hubbard accused Beebe and McDaniel of trying to destroy a fundraiser for state legislative candidate Charlie Fuqua (R). In a new book, Fuqua proposed establishing the death penalty for rebellious children and sterilizing those stripped of their parental rights, along with suggesting that all Muslims be deported.

    Ummmmm…….Isn’t that how Hitler started out??

  93. dee wrote:

    From the article:
    “Members of the church believe Mrs. Meza can talk directly to God.”

    My grandmother used to say, “If you say you can hear God talking, your name had better be Joan of Arc”.

  94. zooey111 wrote:

    Ummmmm…….Isn’t that how Hitler started out??

    This is why I think social studies and history education are so important. (Unless they’ve had an Orwellian rewriting.) Unless you learn to recognize the patterns you’re at risk of repeating them. The only thing scarier than Fuqua espousing such ideas is others agreeing with them.

  95. zooey111 wrote:

    Ummmmm…….Isn’t that how Hitler started out??

    From the “Sexual Harassment Panda” episode of South Park:

    KYLE — “But Dad, isn’t that Fascism?”
    KYLE’S DAD — “No it isn’t, Son. Because we don’t call it ‘Fascism’. Do you understand?”
    KYLE — “Do you?”
    (KYLE’S DAD starts reminding KYLE of how much they have personally benefited from this New Order…)

    It’s a real kicker when you remember Kyle’s parents are Remember-the-Holocaust Jews and Easily Offended Social Activists.