"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And that which I can do, by the grace of God, I will do." ~ Dwight L. Moody (Amy Smith's favorite quote)
Many of our readers have been abused at the hands of authoritarian religious leaders. Others have been sexually abused by pastors and youth leaders who were supposedly God's men. The evangelical church, until recently, has been able to cover up abusive behavior in church leadership by imposing some sort of made up spiritual crime. These include: do not speak ill of the church; don't gossip; leave it up to the elders, etc.
The supposed goal seems to be to protect churches from having their dirty laundry aired before the public. Whoever thought this was a good idea obviously missed the Gospel-the real one. He is the Living Word of the Gospel who came to earth as a baby and grew up to die on the Cross for the sins of mankind. Honest believers know that men and women who profess the faith are still capable of sin against others because they understand why Jesus came.
Because they supposedly understand the Gospel, church leaders should be the first to declare that sin(and a crime) has occurred in their midst. They should be the first to go to the police and report child sex abuse. They should be the first to comfort those who have been deeply wounded by abuse perpetrated by church leaders because they get it. They know they sin. Jesus said so. Instead, they hide it "under a bushel," accuse outsiders of being sinners and hang sparkly lights around their congregation in an foolish attempt to hide the dark corners of sin and pain.
The lowly pew sitters are the object of public church discipline while church leaders are quietly moved aside or continue to be embraced by others of the inner circle. Such stories include a seminary leader who divorced his wife and came out of the closet; a pastor who kept a paramour and, after a brief respite, is appointed to lead a ministry; pastors who never apologize to victims, and churches which hide behind lawyers over issues of sex abuse in their churches.
Jesus was born in a stable, not a palace. His birth was announced to shepherds, not the Pharisees and it is pretty easy to guess why. The Pharisees and the Roman Emperors had it all: power and money. Why would they want to risk that for a baby who would preside over a different kind of empire: one based on humility and love for the poor in spirit and destitute. Jesus loved the prostitute, the tax collector, the fishermen. They got it. The leaders did not. Today, we remember the Apostles who were fishermen. We remember Peter who denied Jesus and died a martyr. We do not remember the plethora of Joe Pharisees who were arrogant and judgmental. Those apostles carried out the true Gospel not a gospel™.
The beautiful stories of hope and courage of today are found in the lives and stories of our friends and acquaintances who do not appear in the news like certain celebrity leaders who pontificate on the latest slight against Christians. These stories involve people who suffered rejection and pain and have gone on to reach out and care for others who have been similarly affected.
Kim Frank: a mother of abused children
Kim is the woman who organized the GoFundMe for the two little boys link who were hurt by convicted pedophile Greg Kelley. Unfortunately, a church has been sympathetic to the convicted pedophile, supporting those who are trying to prove his innocence. I have been following this story on Twitter for months and have watched as Kim Frank consistently came to the defense of these little boys. Unfortunately, some of the defenders of Greg Kelley have been loud and foulmouthed, attacking those who stood up for the little boys. I often wondered what motivated her. Recently, I learned her story on Amy Smith's Watchkeep. Here is a excerpt from a letter she wrote to Greg Kelley's supporters.
You guys need to stop this. Have you ever looked your child in the eye as they confessed to you that one of the most horrific crimes imaginable was committed against them? Have you ever sat there, internally pleading with God that what your precious baby is saying isn't true? Have you experienced the horror of learning that you unknowingly placed your child in harm’s way, exposing him to someone like Greg, someone who seems so good and trustworthy? No?Well I have. And let me tell you, that if 15 years ago while I tried to put the pieces of my children’s innocence back together, a group of people like you stood and publicly called my children liars and made it very clear that they were not believed, not supported, and in fact the cause of putting someone unjustly in jail, I would have moved away. I would have left all my belongings behind and moved my children far away from people like you.
This is horrible what you’re doing to not only these precious little boys, but their families, and families like mine who are survivors of sexual abuse. You’re creating an environment where it’s not safe for a young child to confess abuse because you will all rally against them. You’re making it seem much easier for children to suffer the life-long (and it is very much life-long) damage of sexual abuse in private because the pain of the backlash from crying out is more than their little minds can handle. Is that what you are trying to do?
Because Greg is guilty so I can’t think of any other reason your groups would continue on with this pointless charade. You are not a martyr, Jake. You’re not going to save the world by giving the appearance of freeing an “innocent” man. He was identified by two young boys who gave detailed accounts of their attacks. And don’t tell me you believe the kids “may” have been abused, but not by Greg. BS. My children were the only witnesses to their molestation just like Greg’s victims were the only witnesses to his abuse.
Don’t you see…child molesters don’t molest in public. The victims will almost ALWAYS be the only witness unless they are caught in the act and that’s very rare. I don’t know how you can all read the facts and still doubt Greg’s guilt. I’m just blown away by that. I understand that you don’t want to believe Greg is capable of this. We never want to believe anyone could be capable of such a terrible crime against a child.
But the fact remains that child molesters are all around us. A quick search on the internet will sadly confirm that you are surrounded by them. I’m sure the friends and families of all the child molesters in your neighborhood didn’t want to believe their guilt either, but sooner or later you have to accept it.
Child molesters are fathers, brothers, uncles, clergy, babysitters, teachers, doctors…friends. They clothe themselves in humble, trustworthy skin while underneath, unseen by those closest to them, their blood runs cold. They can go undetectable for years, but eventually they get caught.…Greg molested two sweet little boys and THAT'S why they said the things they said…not because they were coached. They are the victims. And their families are victims of added cruelty at your hands by being made to feel like they are not believed or supported. My children and so many of my adult friends who are survivors of sexual abuse are being so negatively affected by this group I can’t even tell you. You are not helping Greg. You are hurting our community. You've had your shot at a retrial and it was denied. The facts are clear and what you have presented is exaggerated and skewed so it's over.
Please pray about what you’re doing and let this end for the sake of those little boys. I’ll be delivering donations to Victim Services next week for these sweet boys. If anyone would like to contribute, please let me know. Thanks for reading this.
Kim and her family are heroes. In the midst of their continuing pain, they are reaching out to educate those who do not understand the ramifications of child sex abuse and to comfort those who have been directly affected.
Amy Smith: rejected by her parents
Amy was asked to tell her story for Storify. You can listen to the entire audio here. The Baptist Press covered this story: Anti-abuse group archives member stories. We wrote about her story here.
While she was in college her youth choir director and close friend to her family left their church abruptly in 1989 without explanation.
There wasn’t really any way to know, however, until the Internet came along. Smith found out her former minister was working at another church in another state and also in the local school system. She set out to inform both the school and church about the minister’s past.
As a result of internal pressure, the man eventually confessed to his church of “indiscretions” with younger males decades ago. That prompted several men to come forward claiming as children they were victimized by the man who babysat for their parents while he was in college and ministering in their church.
…John Langworthy, former longtime associate pastor of music and ministries at Morrison Heights Baptist Church in Clinton, Miss., pleaded guilty in January 2013 to five felony counts of gratification of lust. He received a suspended sentence of 50 years, meaning no time in prison, in a plea bargain offered in part because it took so long for the allegations to surface that prosecutors feared the charges might not stand up in court due to an ambiguous statute of limitations.
…Smith said after Langworthy left Mississippi in the 1980s, the same pattern started all over again at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Dallas, where she happened to be serving on staff at the time as a college intern.
…“But because he wasn’t reported he was able to escape prosecution, go back to Mississippi and then for decades was completely unexposed, until mounting pressure behind the scenes of me calling and trying to get the truth out there with the help of an investigative reporter in Dallas,” she said.
Prestonwood Baptist Church has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing but Amy Smith continues to fight for the truth to be told. This has resulted in the rejection by her parents who had considered Langworthy, the pedophile, a family friend.
From the TWW post:
Recently, my parents stated in writing that they are going on with their lives without me and want no more contact with me. In their own words, they insist that I went on a "witch hunt." They still stand by and defend John Langworthy saying "he didn't molest anybody," though he has confessed publicly from the pulpit at Morrison Heights Baptist Church in August 2011. They have also demanded that I apologize to Jack Graham and Neal Jeffrey at Prestonwood.
This rejection continues. To this very day Amy's parents refuse to see Amy or her children. It hurts. Today she said:
It's been a difficult few days for me. Pain of knowing my parents are alive but hate me. Holidays and my girls' birthdays are the hardest.
In spite of this rejection, she continues on.
I will not apologize for the truth. It is the light of truth and knowledge that is our greatest tool to protect kids.
Amy is a hero. She has tolerated the rejection by her parents in order to fight to expose the truth. How many religious leaders on the circuit are willing to give up their friends to defend the victims of abuse? Would they be willing to risk book deals, rubbing elbows with the celebrity pastors, and the conference circuit to care for those who have been hurt? What action best represents the Gospel that they like to talk about so much?
In the end, I think that it is the courage of those like Amy and Kim who best represent the kingdom of God. Far too many of the religious leaders support their own kind, willing to overlook or hide the sins of one another in the name of *protecting* the church. They are missing the Gospel with this behavior. They do not perceive that it is Christians like Kim and Amy who are living out the Gospel by recognizing sin and pain, while bringing hope, courage, and love to those who have been let down by religious leaders and *nice* Christians.
To those of you who have experienced abuse, please know that Jesus focused his ministry on those who were marginalized and abused by the religious and governmental system. And guess what? He was then abused by both the religious authorities and the government. He's been there.
Here is a challenge. When you have begun to heal, share you stories boldly. You are not alone. Your story and understanding will be a gift to others who feel isolated and abandoned in their suffering. Let TWW know if you ever want to tell your story here. We care!
Lydia's Corner: Genesis 46:1-47:31 Matthew 15:1-28 Psalm 19:1-14 Proverbs 4:14-19
After teaching school for 30 years, I can see and have seen parents throw their kids, both juvenile and adult, under the bus for some preacher or some church staff member…… You’d be amazed at people.
If they’ll do that to their own children, what would they do to you?
Scary….
Wow, Amy! If you need family – I’ll be your family! I just want you to know that you are doing the right thing.
I discovered, while doing a legal project for a former prosecutor, that a fellow, new church member was a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List of sex offenders. When I reported this to the pastors/elders, they screamed and yelled at me in a meeting, defended the sex offender (he’s a long time friend), said he was coming off Megan’s List (a lifetime registry and the Sheriff’s sex offender’s task force called that ‘a total lie’ and were so alarmed they contacted the California Attorney General’s Office who runs my state’s Megan’s List and confirmed it “was all lies”). The pastors/elders said he was a long-time friend of theirs and they had no problem with him touching children at church, whose parents had no idea the guy was a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List. (He was convicted for child porn, but the research done by the FBI, District Attorneys’ Association, and The Mayo Clinic shows that most of those inmates confessed to having gotten away with on-contact sexual abuse of children.)
The senior pastor said that if a father at church permitted the sex offender to touch his children than the father had “final authority over his family”, that his wife was “to obey him” and “to submit to him” and that his wife had no say over her own children. Uhhh, no. In my state both parents can be criminally prosecuted for child endangerment/neglect/abuse and can get up to 1-year in jail or up to 6-years in state prison for failing to protect their children. These are crimes a parent can be arrested for! They can lose their children and Child Protective Services can place their kids in the foster care system.
They read me a Scripture at the end of the meeting – about child safety — saying that I was deceived, an unbeliever, factious and destined for hell! I kid you not! What a threat!
They followed that up with having the chairman of the elder board call me at home and tell me that I was to never have contact with this sex offender’s supervising law enforcement agency again, never was to reveal the name of the church I was a member of, was to never reveal the names of the pastors/elders (who are legally mandated child abuse reporters here in California and can be arrested, prosecuted, and jailed for not reporting). It’s also a crime (can be prosecuted as a felony) to tell someone that they can’t contact law enforcement/be a witness. (Obstruction of justice, etc.)
The pastors/elders recently forbade stepping foot on church property, demanded that I apologize to them because the California Attorney General called them liars about this sex offender, told me I was to have no contact with church members, and that I was forbidden from attending church services.
They then excommunicated and shunned me. 150+ refuse to speak to me. Long time friends who say that I am very bad person and they can possibly be around me.
Meanwhile the pastors/elders have moved the sex offender into positions of trust/authority and even invited him to be a volunteer at the church’s summer basketball camp for children (which both believers and unbelievers enroll their children in, having no clue a felon on Megan’s List has been given carte blanche access to their kids because the pastors/elders said so!!).
A coworker who is a devout Christian, his wife, and children no longer go to church. Reason? He caught a youth pastor sexually abusing one of his children.
The senior pastor ordered that all of their church family shun them during one of the hardest times of their lives, when they needed love, support, and compassion, and lots of help. They will never step foot in a church again after getting burned by Christians who turned on their family.
I told him about my shunning and excommunication for standing up for children and their safety. I too have been blue. It’s a hard price to pay.
But I spent Christmas dinner with unbelievers, and frankly they are far nicer people than most “Christians” that I know. Those unbelievers have a sense of right and wrong, love, caring, etc. all of the things that Christians are supposed to be better at.
Love and hugs from California.
Thank you Amy and Kim for standing up for “the least of these.” It’s a tough road and I’m very sorry you’ve been attacked and lost family and friends over this. However, know this, there are children and adults out there who bless your names for your bravery.
Twenty years ago, when I got involved in exposing the misdeeds of a certain space-alien cult, I could not understand why people in the churches wouldn’t join us. I may have been a law school graduate, but when it came to the church world, I was painfully naive. Of course they wouldn’t join people who were protesting Scientology’s bad actions, because their churches were covering up similar awful deeds.
I’ve become awfully cynical over the last two decades. It makes me very happy to see people who are willing to stand up for the least of these in the face of incredible pressure. Thank you again, Amy and Kim.
Sounds like if you’re a pedophile or just a generic sociopath, Church Leadership is THE best place to be.
There’s a Yiddish expression called “Shanda fur die goyim” (lit. “Scandal before Outsiders”). It refers to conduct or scandal that brings reproach upon Jews among non-Jews (and derision towards God by association), up to and including fueling “If THAT’s what THEY’re like” anti-Semitism.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
“Scandal before outsiders”.
Fascinating that that’s the heaviest hammer that defenders of the church abusers use against people who bring their behavior into light. Dee and Deb and Warren Throckmorton and SNAP and all the many others are continually excoriated for “defaming the Kingdom of God” and “bringing the Church into disrepute” for reporting the truth, when in reality, it is the behavior of the abusers within the Church who bring reproach upon the Church, not those who obey the Scriptural mandate to “expose evil”.
Mirele, Scientology is certainly one nasty group of people. Unfortunately, churches are so caught up in covering up their own butts they don’t want to make waves about any other so-called “religion”. They keep quiet because if the $cions lose tax-exempt status, maybe all churches could lose this privilege. They bury their heads in the sand over the “church’s” former forced abortion policy, current family disconnection and other hideous practices.
Unfortunately, many churches have become all about making money and are run as a business just like Scientology. I thank God you were able to get out of Scientology. With that experience behind you, I am sure your BS radar is finely honed! I wish every church had someone like you on staff!!
Both amazing heroes in my eyes. My first novel, Watching the Tree Limbs, dealt with an abused girl who needed a hero and got one. It was fiction. I needed a hero but did not have one. Anyone who stands up for sexual abuse victims with this sort of bravery should be applauded.
Kudos to Amy and Kim for their stance to protect children and see that justice is served in child sex crimes cases in the church. (I have a similar, recent, story at my church…complete with my being excommunicated and shunned for protesting my pastors/elders permitting their friend a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List near our church’s children and putting him in positions of trust and authority.)
Speaking of H.U.G.’s post, while doing research last week on child sex crimes in religious communities, I came across this article in The New Yorker about sex abuse in the Jewish ultra Orthodox community: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/10/outcast-3
Ann wrote:
Just to be clear–I was never in Scientology. Scientology decided to come onto our playground (Usenet) and tell us what we could and could not post. I took great exception to that. From there, I learned about the Sea Org, the disconnections, the abortion, the constant shakedowns for money, etc., etc. and fell down the rabbit hole. I can honestly say I have never been INSIDE a church of Scientology. (Outside one…yep, lots of times, usually with a sign.)
Amy is amazing. She works tirelessly for victims, exposing alleged perpetrators who are able to go under the radar of enabling pastors. She has paid the ultimate price – shunning by family. I’ve been shunned by a church, but never by family. I can’t even fathom such pain. Love you, Amy! You have a lot of sisters and brothers in Christ who will never abandon you.
Excellent post Dee! I echo the sentiments of the commenters – Amy and Kim are my heroes. May their examples encourage others to stand up for innocent children who are being hurt.
@ Michaela:
I live in the Washington, D.C. area but am visiting family in California. HUGS from Fresno Michaela!! You have got to tell your story in detail. Can you contact the Deebs and arrange to tell it in detail. Wow! The few things I have read have left my jaw on the ground. Talk about corruption!
Amy Smith HUGS!!! You find yourself in Washington, D.C. I’ll buy you the beer!
Not to hijack the thread but you guys should check Throckmorton’s blog. Looks like the lawsuit against Mars Hill is drafted. It names Mark Driscoll, Sutton Turner and many others. They are trying for one more chance at mediation before commencing. At least that’s what I am seeing. If I am wrong please correct me.
Eagle wrote:
Eagle wrote:
Hi Eagle,
Greetings back! I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. (I read some of your other stories about your journey of repentance and seeking forgiveness and spiritual turn-around today here on the blog. Wow. Good stuff!) Yes, I will contact Deb and Dee (they’ve asked for my church story) as well as Julie Anne at the Spiritual Abuse Sounding Board blog.
Eagle wrote:
My opinion of private RICO actions is that they usually fail. I think they’d do better to get Washington state to go after MHC for misappropriation of the Global Fund. But that’s just my personal opinion.
I’m also of the opinion that since MHC is supposed to be winding up as of next Thursday, a lawsuit of some sort to put the windup on hold should be filed very quickly. That said, I don’t know how Washington state handles this.
@ Michaela:
You go girl!! We need to get your story told! Proud to have people like you in the church. I so wish more people were like you in church.
I am a victim of childhood sexual abuse. I have recently started seeing a Christian counselor with a particular ministry to abuse victims. She has written a book called “Mothers of Molestation Survivors”; the title is self explanatory. But, this is the only book I’ve encountered with this particular slant on a terrible problem.
I highly recommend this book for anyone dealing with finding out that their children were molested. You can find it on Amazon.com. The author is Kim Johnson.
This is not an advertisement but a sharing of a valuable resource!!!
I know from firsthand experience that Ms. Johnson’s heart is tuned to all the victims of abuse.
i hope this book can help some of your readers…..
The biggest problem in all of this? Labeling raping children as a sin. It takes away the fact, that first and foremost? It is a CRIME. When people call it a sin, then in a sense they are lessening what it truly is.
So let’s call it for what it is…a CRIME.
pastors who cover up child abuse are guilty not only of failure to report, but also of felony obstruction of justice for the cover up. Report them as well as the sex offender. If a pastor or two goes to jail for covering up, it may have some effect on other pastors.
Michaela wrote:
You are fantastic for what you’ve done. Is there more that can be done (not necessarily by you, there’s lots of us here who’d get off our arses to help) before he gets his hooks into the basketball camp, which he should never be allowed near? I mean in terms of the local community finding out he’s on the Sex Offenders register for life? How can this be publicised legally?
How do the church don’t realise that this could put their ‘friend’ under intolerable pressure of temptation, as well as (& much more importantly) put all those kids at risk is beyond me. It can’t continue.
It really is sad when church learders are more concerned about the reputation of the church than the children that are abused and the lifetime affect it has on most of these children.
This is so moving! I will never understand why folks want to blame the victims.
I know a man who has a daughter who was seduced by her (married) youth pastor when she was 18. Needless to say, this father was upset and angry. Since the girl was of legal age, they quietly told the youth pastor to leave. Now he is pastoring elsewhere. Today if the father hears any allegations of child abuse in the news, he immediately begins blaming the victims for flirting or otherwise “asking for it.” I don’t know the specifics of his daughter’s story, but I can’t imagine any scenario where she would be to blame more than the pastor. This man was a PASTOR. He was middle-aged. He had made vows to his wife. He had a great responsibility over the youth of his church. I say he was a total fraud and evil. I am a father of two boys and a girl. I would never dream of defending a person that my kids accused of these evil things! What is going on in our churches these days!?
Amy and Kim, you are two amazing women. I hope you feel the love and covering of prayer by so many. You have touched many people with your amazing strength. Keep up the good fight.
Thank you Amy and Kim for all you do for the child victims of abuse. You’re light years ahead of religious organizations when it comes to supporting children who have been or could be abused by perpetrators.
@ Michaela:
The only way to keep the community safe is to release the name of the church and the sex offender so that people innthe community can look the man up on the registry themselves to see the truth. Also report him to the police if he is named as aN adult supervisor at the camp.
@ Anonymous:
What is going on with parents when they blame their teenager (and other victims) more than the/a pastor/adult? I think it’s called sin leveling.
She has written a book called “Mothers of Molestation Survivors”; the title is self explanatory. But, this is the only book I’ve encountered with this particular slant on a terrible problem.
I highly recommend this book for anyone dealing with finding out that their children were molested. You can find it on Amazon.com. The author is Kim Johnson.
Thanks Molly for the book recommendation. I will check it out on amazon. I don’t know if you have heard of Pastor Jeff Crippen’s blog on domestic abuse, but they also deal with sexual abuse too. You could possibly post this book suggestion over there. Several women from around the world, including a nice lady named Barbara in Australia, help Jeff with the blog.
Bridget wrote:
Thanks Bridget. I have done all of those action steps. Deb and Dee have asked me to write about it here; so has Julie Anne over at the Spiritual Sounding Board dealing with spiritual abuse. Additionally, I reported it to the private religious school whose gym our church rented and told them never to rent to my (now former) church again and about the sex offender being invited to volunteer with kids. That other denomination is taking it very seriously as their churches are around the world, they are self-insured and don’t use an insurance company like Church Mutual, they can be sued for any of my church’s negligent acts on their property, and their reputation can be harmed as well. They also contacted the pastor of the church property in their denomination who currently rents to my church. He contacted me and discussed it, as well as the whole shunning and excommunication thing. They were planning to cancel the rental contract with my church because my pastors/elders conduct goes against everything they stand for.
Eagle wrote:
Thanks, Eagle for the support. The support from the sane, decent people here means a lot after what I just went through at my church (lied about by my pastors/elders, excommunicated, and shunned).
Frank LaFerriere wrote:
I so agree with you that I updated the blog post to reflect this. Thank you!!
molly245 wrote:
Thank you for this recommendation! I am so sorry for the pain that you have endured.
Beakerj wrote:
According to the pastors/elders this sex offender is “harmless” and should be restored. No. You don’t risk children because you want to carry The Gospel to somebody with a criminal history. You can set firm boundaries in place.
As Church Mutual (the largest insurer in America of churches) and the Rev. Billy Graham’s grandson Boz (a former child sex crimes prosecutor and founder of G.R.A.C.E.) have said that there is an epidemic of child sexual abuse in Protestant evangelical churches. http://boz.religionnews.com/2014/06/27/4-lessons-learn-church-just-doesnt-get/
I did file an online report with the religious school (another denomination) whose air conditioned gym my church rented about this sex offender being invited by my pastors/elders to that church’s property to volunteer with children. Their denomination has responded well. They are banning my church from their property as they take child safety very seriously, are a world-wide denomination and self-insured and can be sued for my church’s acts of negligence, and their reputation can be harmed for the bad acts of my church. They also contacted the pastor in their denomination who rents a church to my church. That pastor contacted me and was going to cancel the rental contract for my church for these very serious reasons. That pastor apologized to me from Christians every where for my being excommunicated and shunned for this and said in nearly 30-years of pastoring he’s never excommunicated a single member. (My church also excommunicated a doctor who has been married to his wife for 40+ years, a good man, and the pastors/elders lied about him too on some trumped up charge because he questioned them.)
@ Anonymous:
Not to mention there is a world of difference between an 18yo and the prepubescent children many of these cases are about.
Frank LaFerriere wrote:
Spot on! A crime!
Anonymous wrote:
Welcome to TWW.
I believe that some churches push the concept that all sin is equally bad. So, fudging on your taxes is as bad a raping a child. In other words sin is sin is sin. No nuance whatsoever.
Also, they believe that sin is involved on both sides of a rape. So, the child must have done something to provoke it or even, this makes me sick, enjoyed being violated. You can see this in the Bob Jones story that we post recently.
Even secular organization understand the inequity of power and how it intimidates children, teens and people in the work environment. The church lags behind in this understanding.
As you can imagine, we are dedicated to fighting this stupidity within the faith. Thank you for caring about the abused.
Michaela wrote:
…and get a Notch on YOUR Bible with the bonus of a Real JUICY Testimony.
Bridget wrote:
I keep hearing the closing lyrics from South Park’s “Blame Canada”:
“BLAME CANADA!
BLAME CANADA!
BEFORE ANYONE CAN THINK OF BLAMING US!”
dee wrote:
And in an account on one of these watchblog comment threads. A pedo got caught at a Truly REFORMED church and apparently got away with it.
His defense before the Elders/Dictators?
An abstract “The Hearts of Men are Desperately Wicked.”
Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for being a good man and father. As to the father who blames his daughter, and other victims, for being preyed up by sexual predators perhaps he blames the victims as a way to avoid his own feelings of powerlessness to protect his own daughter. If it’s her fault than he didn’t fail her in some way, doesn’t have to feel his own powerlessness, betrayal, deal with evil amongst us. (I will pray for him and for Amy Smith’s parents who have shunned her for going after the Baptist predator in Dallas and Mississippi.)
Bridget wrote:
Excellent topic for discussion over on the open thread. Mayhap this whole ‘sin’ thing needs to be rethought.
Bridget wrote:
After all, these MenaGAWD have already shown you what they think of you.
Leave a Parting Gift (that keeps on giving) with the cops & D.A.
If they covered it up, they can be criminally liable.
And they can bask in their “Terrible PERSECUTION(TM)!!!!!!!”
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Those pastors/elders at my former church will tell any lie to defend this sex offender. The sex offender and I were in the same Bible study (I was the only one who knew he was on Megan’s List) and he whipped the entire room in to a frenzy about “all of the bad people in prisons”. Everybody was agreeing with him, save me who was giving him a cold stare. At the end of his story/manipulation – never of course revealing he was a convicted sex offender who served prison time – he had a huge smile on his face. He had succeeded in manipulating everyone. I went home, turned on my computer to California’s Megan’s List (at the Attorney General’s website) and I documented his entire manipulation of the Bible study for the AG under his picture. That then went to his supervising law enforcement agency, the Sheriff’s sex offenders task force.
The senior pastor was livid and told me that I had failed to confront him via Matthew 18. I told the senior pastor/elders that the failure was theirs not mine as they brought him in to our church with no safeguards and he is responsible for his own conduct, not me.
@ Michaela:
I am so sorry that you have had such a negative experience. Your former church may suffer terrible consequences for their poor decision about this Megan’s Law offender. I live in an urban area in Northern California where, a few years ago, a large, local church hired a known registered sex-offender for their summer day camp program. Charges came out because of incidents with little girls in the swimming pool, and this person is back in jail. The church is also in the middle of a lawsuit brought by the families of the girls (unless some settlement has been reached of which I’m unaware). The details of all this, of course, were in the local paper.
I thankfully am part of a church that takes mandated reporting seriously. I’m a “lead volunteer” in our children’s ministry and had to file an abuse/neglect report a couple years ago. Once the parent had been charged, and given mandatory counseling, the church rallied around to support her in her efforts. It has been a happy ending, from everything I can tell, but she also is aware that we are keeping an eye on her to make sure that she follows through on all interventions made. Her little boy is happy, healthy, and thriving. And, no, she is not allowed anywhere near the children’s ministry.
Hi Linn,
Thanks for your support. It’s been a horrible experience at my now former church. My entire meeting with the four pastors/elders about child safety was bizarre. I was screamed and yelled out, for discussing child safety and the law! The senior pastor said it wasn’t big deal that the sex offender was touching children and he and an associate pastor said they’ve known him for years and permit him to touch their children. The senior pastor demanded to know why I was using the term “sex offender” in my conversation with them. Me: “It’s not my term. It’s a term codified in law. In the Penal Code there are sex offenses. A person found guilty of having violated those parts of criminal law – sex offenses – is called ‘a sex offender’.”
Around and around we went. An associate pastor demanded to know if I’d prayed for the sex offender (he was convicted for trading/possession of child porn but the research done by the F.B.I., District Attorneys’ Association and The Mayo Clinic of those inmates in prisons show the majority of them confessed to on-contact sexual abuse of children that they were never caught, arrested, prosecuted and convicted for. In short, where there’s smoke (child porn) there’s (usually) fire: child sexual abuse/pedophilia. I said to the associate pastor: “Have you ever prayed for all of those children who were raped and sodomized in all of that child porn he was viewing and trading and selling? Those are real human beings. Let’s talk about a how child porn is made. A child is selected, taking to a room, stripped naked, and forced into felony sex acts. Imagine what was going through those childrens’ minds as that was happening. Imagine how it broke the heart of God and the hearts of those children. Imagine how it angered the Lord. Have you prayed for those damaged childrens’ lives?” Silence. From all four pastors/elders.
As others have commented – are these pastors/elders also committing some kind of sexual sin? I have no clue. It’s all very odd. The senior pastor said that if a church member father permitted the sex offender to touch his children that the father’s authority over his family “was final”, that his wife was to “obey him” and “to submit to him” and that she would have no say (over her own children!). OK, pal, we’re in California and that mother can be arrested and prosecuted, get up to 1-year in jail or 6-years in state prison, for misdemeanor or felony child abuse/neglect/endangerment. She’s required by law to protect her children.
Those pastors/elders’ are insane and morally bankrupt. On every level.
Sorry Linn…typo. The “Associate pastor said to me have you ever prayed..” (I’m multi-tasking – not any good at it – cooking, texting my sister back, etc.). You get my drift.
Michaela wrote:
I grew up with a younger brother who was a Master Manipulator and possible non-violent sociopath. I am very familiar with that “huge smile on his face” — the grin of contempt at the easy marks who swallowed it whole. The grin of “I. WIN.”
And Master Manipulators always smell like roses and rainbows. Like the Sweet Little Angel of a little girl from the original The Bad Seed (without the Hays Office deus ex machina ending). Or “Because I’m O.J.Simpson and O.J.Simpson gets away with everything.”
It’s why a BIG part of me wants you to take your “elders & pastors” and “F them up” any way you can.
P.S. Regarding your handle of “Michaela”:
I thought the feminine form of the name “Michael” was “Michelle”.
(Though as kids we pronounced “Michelle” to rhyme with “belly”.)
@ Michaela:
Just let us know how we can be of assistance when you write your story.
Michaela, thanks for your brave stance in protecting children. Could you please elaborate a little on what you said above regarding posting something under a picture then forwarding it? I know another couple who are trying to keep a seminary student with a sex crime history out of youth ministry. It might help them a lot. Where are the pictures you can post on? What kind of documentation helps the most? Can the public read these stories/comments? Who do you forward this to and how is it used?
–
Out of curiosity, how does this man feel about “bad people in prison”? Is he talking about starting up a prison ministry to help them or just looking down (projecting) on them? Thanks for any help you can provide. It could spare another kid a lot of pain.
Hi Jen,
1. Anyone can go to their state’s Megan’s List of sex offenders. Every state has them. My state’s Megan’s List of sex offenders is on the California Attorney General’s web site.
2. You can report on a sex offender under their picture/name here in California, which is what I did. That report is then sent from the California Attorney General’s/Justice Department to the sex offender’s supervising law enforcement agency.
3. The reports/ comments are internal that are posted on the Justice Department/Megan’s List website.
4. Not all sex offenders are on Megan’s List, it depends on their violations.
5. The couple should discuss the sex offender with the supervising law enforcement agency.
As to the sex offender at my church, no, no, no. He wasn’t talking about any kind of ministry. He whipped the entire room in to a frenzy at the Bible study about the “bad people in prisons”, as though he was a good citizen, above reproach, etc. Everybody agreed with him. They were praising him and using his name, telling him about his excellent comments. And he masterfully manipulated them all. It was just a game for him. He smiled at the end. He had “won”. Well, sorta. He didn’t know that I knew he was on Megan’s List and that I went home an reported the entire thing on California Attorney General’s web site.
@ Michaela:
Good for you. I work professionally with older children & teens (for the last 20 years)& manage a team of youth workers & I would yell the truth about this guy from the highest rooftops if he stepped into my area. I have passed the word on in my area about a church member with a sexual offences against kids record when he changed churches; he now has kids of his own so may get access to church kids via this, but I still don’t know if his current wife knows.
I have worked with kids who’ve been abused, & have friends who were & I have no patience with imbeciles like your church ‘leaders’.
dee wrote:
OK. Thanks Dee.
dee wrote:
Thank you…
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
My handle is part of my legal name. “Michaela” is from the Hebrew word “Michael” (which means “Who is like God?”) in the Bible. “Michelle” is the French version of that name. “Michaela” is used in other European nations and Slavic countries.
Jen wrote:
Hi Jen,
Additionally, the couple should (besides contacting the sex offender’s supervising law enforcement agency), find out about child safety policies of the denomination/church that the seminary student wants to work in. Some churches have good child safety protocols in place; many others place fast and loose and are in complete denial.
I also sent Church Mutual (they are the largest insurer of churches in the United States) an email about my church. Church Mutual has good information about child safety policies on their website, although some of it is only accessible to policy holders. Additionally, given the huge financial risks that child sexual abuse at church poses to insurance carriers, ones like C.M. are ordering churches to have child safety policies and to announce sex offenders in their risk, or cancelling their insurance coverage.
Not all churches have insurance coverage, it depends on where they are located and the laws.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2012/july/insurance-carrier-orders-church-how-to-treat-sex-offenders.html?paging=off
Sorry Jen for the typo. “Announce sex offenders in their presence”
Michaela wrote:
The father can/should be the one charged and sent to prison for allowing this. After all, the father in this church world is the final authority!
What really bothers me is the pastor And parents in this situation are all usurping the authority (given by God) of the government which has the responsibility to protect the people from evil doers. Pastors and parents also have this charge, although these folks don’t seem to know/understand this concept.
As far as I’m concerned, Michaela, the men you describe have some serious sin issues in their lives and they are trying to make you the bad guy when they need to look in the mirror.
@ Muff Potter:
I have a theory about what happens to parents who “sit under” certain kinds of religious teachings.
Beakerj wrote:
Thanks for all of your work with youth across The Pond! Thanks for your support of me in my journey. It’s been really quite strange…to be shunned and excommunicated for telling the truth, and not for some gross immorality. I’ve had people who have known me for 8-years at church tell me that I am a horrible person and that they will no longer talk to me because the “pastors/elders” said so. The pastors/elders are liars. (Prior to their shunning me, they did same to a godly doctor who has been married for 40+ years to his wife, simply because he questioned them about Biblical errors and how they were running things. A bunch of spineless cowards at church said that it was fine that the doctor was shunned. Fine???!! No, it’s not “fine”. This is the Golden Rule. Would you like that done to you? It’s despicable and evil. As an unbeliever said to me at Christmas dinner the other night, “They weren’t really your ‘friends’. Your true friends would have defended you.” (Note: I contacted the doctor and his wife, after my shunning, and I asked for forgiveness for being complicit in what was done to them. I said I’d never been in a church like this, never seen anything like it, and it was wrong and I knew it was wrong. I have gone to others that our pastors/elders mistreated and told them how sorry I was and how wrong it was. They said I am the ONLY person from that church who has EVER contacted them. So certainly my candor has started them on the road to recovery.)
Bridget wrote:
Hi Bridget,
Agreed…that the pastors/elders have some serious sin issues in their lives. The senior pastor is an absolute bully behind closed doors: ridiculing, putdowns, shaming, etc. If you say you don’t like it/question it in any way, the pastors/elders hit you back with, “You are bringing an accusation against an elder without cause” and thus you can be subjected to further discipline. The chairman of the elder board, who seems like a mild-mannered man in his approach, is full of his own form of bullying and threats: he called me at home and told me that I was to never contact this sex offender’s supervising law enforcement agency again.
Michaela wrote:
“I THANK THEE, LOOORD, THAT *I* AM NOTHING LIKE THOSE FILTHY PUBLICANS BEHIND BARS!!!”
Michaela, thanks for you prompt response. I will forward it on. I will pray for peace for your unrighteous persecution. How awful it must be to be treated so badly for justifiably protecting children. I give praise that the church who owns the facility is doing the right thing. My fear is that they are only displacing the crime. I’m afraid the only thing that may cause your former church to reconsider their support of this pedophile is public exposure. I’ll be interested to see how long they continue to support him once the specifics are published.
Michaela wrote:
Shouldn’t that be “pastor-dictators”?
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Besides the pastors/elders being criminally liable, they can also be sued as individual defendants under California law for their acts of negligence, emotional distress, etc. if a child is harmed. Additionally, a jury can award punitive damages because the pastors/elders didn’t exercise a “duty of care” that a “reasonable person” would exercise.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
LOL, H.U.G. Now YOU are “bringing an accusation against an elder without cause”. I mean you need to apologize to them for that. (After the California Attorney General called them liars about the sex offender, and I repeated it to them, they banned me from church property and services!)
Jen wrote:
Hi Jen,
You’re welcome for the prompt response. Also check out G.R.A.C.E. (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment), S.N.A.P. (clergy abuse started by those abused by Catholic priests but it has now expanded to include all kinds of denominations).
I don’t think the denomination that is renting to my church is “displacing the crime” by cancelling my church’s rental contract. First, that denomination/property owner is giving my (former) church a consequence for their bad actions and lack of child safety policies. Secondly, where I am, it’s very hard for churches to find places to rent. Thirdly, a crime hasn’t been committed (that we know of) but could be committed. The property owner/other church is exercising a “legal duty of care” (under negligence laws) by banning my church from all of their denominational properties and gyms. And finally, their denomination’s pastors/school directors did their mandated reporting and did report this sex offender and my church to law enforcement.
Michaela wrote:
It seems that the pastor, in withholding information from the father that the guy touching his children is a registered sex offender, is committing a dominance act against the father. He is in effect “saying” see I can even get you to place your own child in potential danger from a sex offender and you don’t even know it, and all I have to do is withhold that information that the guy is a sex offender. So the pastor has all the power, and the pastor thusly exerts that power over the father even to this extent. This is some combination of sicko and evil, depending on what paradigm one wants to use to describe it.
Well said, Nancy.
I take my hat off and salute Amy Smith, Kim Frank and Michaela too, for their tireless courage and tenacity in defending and supporting victims of this horrifying abuse. Thank you all for your unceasing efforts to let the truth be known in your churches and communities, even in the face of bullying, peer pressure, shunning and ostracism.
May God bless you all with comfort, strength, friendship, and every other blessing this holiday season, and all throughout the New Year.
Thanks, Serving, for your kind remarks and encouragement. It means a lot!
Jen wrote:
Hi Jen,
I just want to correct the facts. This sex offender at my former church is on Megan’s List of sex offenders not for a pedophilia conviction but for child porn convictions (possession, selling, distributing). He was convicted for those felony crimes and sentenced to prison time for it.
But my concern about the child porn convictions is that the research done by the F.B.I., District Attorneys’ Association, and The Mayo Clinic of inmates in prison for those convictions (child porn) has shown that the majority of them admitted to on-contact sexual abuse of children in which they were never caught and prosecuted. In short, the research shows that where there’s “smoke”(child porn) there’s “fire” (a high rate of pedophilia/sex crimes against children).
Here’s somebody who had a choice between child porn (illegal and a felony) and adult porn (legal) and chose child porn. That tells me a lot about his thinking and the risk that he could pose to children, and the boundaries that should be in place.
Again, I believe that not only is there a violation of the reporting law, there is a criminal conspiracy to suppress others from doing so. Michaela, please, please, contact the local sheriff or police department and alert them to this, with names, etc.
@ An Attorney:
I understand that the man should be considered a potential threat, but I am not sure at this point what law has actually been broken at this time which would require reporting. Enlighten me here. I am not up to speed on all this. And yes I know you are in Texas and this is NC and the man in question is in California, but any information would be a help.
@ Bridget:
I am not really familiar with that term. But it sounds like a moral equivalency argument.
An Attorney wrote:
Will do. Thank you for your support.
Hi Nancy,
1.I don’t know that the law has been broken with regards to sex crimes. But here in California mandated child abuse reporters (which includes clergy, church secretary) are required to report even suspected child abuse, which these pastors refuse to report. In California it’s a continuing criminal act for a mandated child abuse reporter to not report to a legally required agency, and that mandated child abuse reporter can be arrested, prosecuted, and jailed for NOT reporting.
2. In California it’s also a crime for the pastors/elders to do what they did to me: Tell me that I was to never have contact with law enforcement again about this sex offender or to report him.
That is called “obstruction of justice” under the California Penal Code Section 136.1. (cite: from Shouse Law’s website a Southern California criminal defense law firm that explains laws very well)
“1.that you knowingly and maliciously,
2.prevented or dissuaded (or attempted to prevent or dissuade),
3.a victim of a crime or a witness to a crime from
1.attending or testifying at any judicial proceeding,
2.reporting the crime,
3.aiding in the prosecution process, or
4.aiding in the arrest process.
Conspiracy
With respect to intimidating or dissuading a witness, a “conspiracy”; is
1.an agreement by two or more people to intimidate or dissuade a witness or victim, when they
2.take overt steps to carry out that agreement.
The state punishes groups (that is, two or more people) who engage in criminal activity more heavily than individuals, believing that it is more likely that if multiple people are involved in a criminal plan, the plan will be executed.
Prevented / dissuaded / intimidated
The important fact to note about these terms is that it doesn’t matter whether you are successful in your attempt to prevent, dissuade, or intimidate a victim or witness.8 What does matter is the fact that you attempted to do so, as this crime focuses on your intent, not on the outcome.”
*********************************************************************
There are many mandated child abuse reporters at my former church (who work in medicine, health care, law enforcement, etc.). I will report this sex offender and these clergy members. The chairman of the elder board telling me to do otherwise is a criminal act in California. He called me at home and told me that they had decided that I was to never contact law enforcement again. That’s a crime in California. They told me that I was “to obey” them and to “submit” to their authority. I threw the chairman of the elder board a bone and said,”sure” to get them to back off. In truth, I didn’t mean it! Of course I will contact law enforcement.
2. They have repeatedly defended this sex offenders right to touch children, including very young boys (nursery school aged) and run his hands through their hair, etc, whose parents have no idea the man is a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List. In the language of sex crimes that can be called “grooming”. (The senior pastor and the associate pastor said it’s fine that the sex offender touches kids and then know, and care, ZERO about how child sexual predators work.)
Church parents do have a right to know, as do other adults, that this man is a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List and to take appropriate precautions with their children around him.
3. The other denomination that rents a church building to my church and a school gym to my church during the summer time for my church’s children’s summer basketball camp (in which the sex offender was invited by the pastors/elders to volunteer with children) also has the right to know about this sex offender on their property because they can be enjoined and sued as a defendant for any harms
caused to children by my church’s acts of negligence. (That denomination is also concerned that their reputation can be harmed since they take child abuse prevention and mandated reporting very seriously, all their employees have mandated child abuse reporting training, and they have protocols for dealing with all of this which they follow.)
“California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI)
401. Basic Standard of Care
Negligence is the failure to use reasonable care to prevent harm to oneself or to others.
A person can be negligent by acting or by failing to act. A person is negligent if he or she does something that a reasonably careful person would not do in the same situation or fails to do something that a reasonably careful person would do in the same situation.
You must decide how a reasonably careful person would have acted in [name of plaintiff/defendant]’s situation.”
California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI)
400. Negligence—Essential Factual Elements
[Name of plaintiff] claims that [he/she] was harmed by [name of defendant]’s negligence. To establish this claim, [name of plaintiff] must prove all of the following:
1. That [name of defendant] was negligent;
2. That [name of plaintiff] was harmed; and
3. That [name of defendant]’s negligence was a substantial factor in causing [name of plaintiff]’s harm.
********************************************
California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI)
1620. Negligent Infliction of Emotional Distress—Direct Victim—Essential Factual Elements
[Name of plaintiff] claims that [name of defendant]’s conduct caused [him/her] to suffer serious emotional distress. To establish this claim, [name of plaintiff] must prove all of the following:
1. That [name of defendant] was negligent;
2. That [name of plaintiff] suffered serious emotional distress; and
3. That [name of defendant]’s negligence was a substantial factor in causing [name of plaintiff]’s serious emotional distress.
Emotional distress includes suffering, anguish, fright, horror, nervousness, grief, anxiety, worry, shock, humiliation, and shame. Serious emotional distress exists if an ordinary, reasonable person would be unable to cope with it.”
@ Frank LaFerriere:
Well, Frank, I agree that it is and should be called a crime. But I’m not sure about your other point. Remember, in a lot of these more conservative choices, a “sin” might damn your soul to hell, while it may be a “crime” to refuse service to gays. I actually think that in many of these circles (which I was raised in, fwiw) a sin is taken much more seriously than a crime.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Yes, I think so too. For example, there is talk now about some christian responsibility to refuse to obey certain laws. I grew up being taught that the day would come when christians would have to refuse to obey certain laws even if it meant going to prison.
Then there is always the saying at the other end of the spectrum that “laws are made to be broken.”
Also there is the pride among some folks in refusing to obey and going to jail. I knew a state prosecutor who was working up in the mountains, and he said that the relatives of people sent to prison for various things would sometimes claim that their relative was caught for making whiskey since that was something to be proud of to be making it and no shame in getting caught at it.
My oft referenced missiology book says that the fellow’s research showed that among the house church movement in China going to prison is considered an almost essential step for leadership maturity.
So, yes indeed, sin is a much more serious offense than crime.
mosst crimes, especially traditional ones, are also sins; and most traditional sins are also crimes (OT sort of sins).
putting a convicted child molester into a place where they are working with children and have “supervisory” access to children is clearly negligent and if children were to be abused, then the individuals and organization could be held liable in a civil suit.
More of interest to me is whether the pastor and elders could not be charged with conspiracy if they effectively enable the convicted molester to groom and then abuse a child. They have at least facilitated the crime that subsequently occurs, of which grooming is a part, and for which access to children is necessary. Having been warned and persisting could be a factor in holding them accountable if the crime occurs.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
A “sin” could also be defined as not “submitting” to the pastor or even not attending church. They get to define and that is the bigger problem.
1. To be clear about the facts: This convicted sex offender at my former church (whom the pastors/elders permitted to become a member, they said he was coming off Megan’s List and his supervising law enforcement agency (The Sheriff’s) and the California Attorney General’s Office called that ‘a total lie’ and said he’s NOT coming off Megan’s List) is on Megan’s List for the convictions of child pornography, which he was convicted and was sentenced to prison for.
2. Extreme caution should have been carried out by my pastors/elders: Since of inmates convicted for having child porn (according to studies done by the FBI, District Attorneys Association, and The Mayo Clinic) said during research studies of them in prison that ‘yes’ they had gotten away with ‘on-contact sexual abuse of children.’ In most cases where there is “smoke” (child porn) there is “fire” (the person is a pedophile and hasn’t been caught or convicted/or reported).
3. Additionally, the pastors/elders over-all are careless about child abuse prevention and thereby any predator could pose a risk to that church’s children.
Lydia wrote:
Spot on comment, Lydia, that you made that they get to define a sin. And in my church they defined “a sin” that I was “bringing an accusation against an elder without cause” as repeating that the California Attorney General said that their friend whom they permitted to become a church member was NOT coming off Megan’s List of sex offenders and that it “was all a lie”. My four pastors/elders demanded that I apologize to them, banned me from church property until I did,
excommunicated me and ordered that I be shunned for my refusal.
They also had the chairman of the elder board previously call me and tell me that I was to never have contact with law enforcement again because the four elders said so, a crime called “conspiracy” to obstruct justice.
There is a fairly large “moderate” baptist church in our town with which I am familiar. Some time ago they had a member molest some teen age boys (not on church property.) He served time in prison, and when he got out he returned to the church which welcomed him back. Most, but not all, of the members at the time voted to accept him back, and they believe that is the christian thing to do.
I am not sure what all the thinking was in that case, but it did create some awkwardness for some people. Neither do I have any information as to how prevalent this welcome back attitude is. But some people do apparently think it is the thing to do.
Certainly safeguards need to be in place. At the same time I checked out the map for the location of registered sex offenders in my town, and there are so many dropped pins that chunks of the map are totally obliterated. The pins were too numerous for me to count. So ultimately the problem is huge, and this is just the known offenders. Basically, maybe there ought not be children’s or youth activities at church. That sounds extreme, but maybe the churches need to adopt a different format altogether.
Hester wrote:
I agree.
@ dee:Thanks for the welcome! I have been drawn into this site as well as others because of my fascination with the Mars Hill debacle. I also had attended BJU back in the 1980’s so I’m definitely up to speed on the inner workings of fundamentalism. I sat under Dr. Fremont’s teaching. I tried for years to “measure up” but in Fundamentalism, that is an unattainable thing. So I left. But I am still an active Christian. Since reading the GRACE report, I’ve become painfully aware that things have not gotten better. But I never knew it had gotten so bad for some.
Thanks for doing what you do. I agree with you that it is time to fight the stupidity in the faith.
Also, I remained anonymous on this post, but it was for the privacy of the people that I discussed. I do have a name I will be using it elsewhere here from time to time.
Michaela wrote:
I have felt this in my spirit when he acted this way, but you put it into words for me very well. Maybe he did all he could do. I will keep a compassionate heart towards him and avoid disagreement or any comment that could add to his pain. I just hope he doesn’t speak to his daughter this way…
Nancy wrote:
Jeff Vanderhoven has some advice on this in one of his books. (He wrote the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse) He said that even though the person might have served their time and might be totally repentant (Who would know?), the church as a whole must be told about his crime. Most leaders keep this sort of thing a secret and if people find out, they claim the perp is repentant and you are just being mean for bringing it up. Most churches have very little concern for the safety of children in this respect. Most of them are putting policies in place because their insurers are demanding it.
Anonymous wrote:
Yes. I will pray for him too…for the Holy Spirit to convict him, soften him, change him.
Stop baptist predators website has detailed information on pedophiles and other sexual predators. My question: how accurate is a state’s database and is this information ever expunged if a person is falsely accused of pedophilia or other kinds of sexual predation? I have looked at my state data base, noticed a coworker on the database (don’t ask me how I found out) and reported my concern to my company’s HR department. This isn’t a church.
Lydia wrote:
Thanks Nancy for reminding that Jeff wrote about this in his very good book. I will have to re-read the book, as I recently read it when I was doing many other things (and there was searing pain of my excommunication and shunning).
Mark wrote:
@Mark,
1. Not all sex offenders are required to register on their state’s Megan’s List of sex offenders. It depends on their conviction.
2. Here is a criminal defense firm in Southern California that explains my state’s Megan’s List.
http://www.shouselaw.com/exclusion.html
3. If an appellate court overturns someone’s conviction than they could go through a process of having their record expunged.
4. There are many people who have never been caught for sex crimes they committed against children and they continue to prey upon children. Just because someone isn’t on Megan’s List doesn’t mean they are necessarily ‘safe’. Precautions should be taken to protect children.
Michaela wrote:
I mean thanks, Lydia! (And Nancy too.)
Nancy wrote:
Hi Nancy,
1. It’s sad to hear that a Baptist church voted to let a convicted sex offender back in to church who had preyed upon and sexually abused churches as the church has placed other children at risk. I am surprised that your state permits a sex offender who has been convicted of sex crimes against children to be near them at church as that is usually a violation of parole and can be grounds for that sex offender to go back to prison.
The churches that have carried The Gospel to sex offenders usually have strict boundaries dealing with the: adults-only services; special supervision of sex offenders; announcements about them; and lots of boundaries in place; communication with law enforcement agencies; professionals dealing with the sex offender in a church setting too. (Some church insurance companies, like Church Mutual, are requiring this or cancelling coverage for those churches.)
2. I read the Baptist convention’s report about child sexual abuse prevention and I was left deeply unimpressed by it: Basically that they won’t have a central plan to deal with it because it would take away from the autonomy of Baptist churches to handle their own matters.
Since the Baptists foolishly refuse to resolve this it seems they are now going to leave it to litigation attorneys resolve it (lawsuits and monetary loss seems to inspire organizational change) and the government changing laws. And the Baptists will have no one to blame but themselves.
3. Examples:
Ministries for sex offenders:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/september/21.49.html
http://www.prisonfellowship.org/1920/01/adults-only-church-for-sex-offenders/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2010/01/29/january-29-2010-ministering-to-sex-offenders/5591/
And getting it wrong (written by Rev. Billy Graham’s grandson Boz, a former sex crimes prosecutor and the founder of G.R.A.C.E. – Godly Response To Abuse In The Christian Environment)
http://boz.religionnews.com/2014/06/27/4-lessons-learn-church-just-doesnt-get/
Nancy wrote:
I think people are in denial. ” He or she is so charming: they couldn’t possibly do this.” “They are such a soul winner. They couldn’t be associated with this evil. Someone is lying and it is not God’s annointed.” I know because I have gone back and forth over this issue and the first quote may have come from me.
It isn’t the Christian thing to do and we can all choose to live in fantasyland. When a SBC leader calls people who expose the evil of sexual predation “evil doers,” we have nothing but denial.
We are all into forgiveness, but this is a pretty hard matter to forgive if you are a victim. And I can’t imagine what is going through the victim’s mind when It is implied they are liars. I wish that the supporters of these sexual predators would place themselves in the shoes of the victim (something that is also Biblical) and not be wooed by charm. The increased cost liability insurance and resulting bad press might give them all a taste of reality.
Michaela wrote:
Church autonomy is a weak excuse because we all know of cases where churches have been disfellowshipped from the Convention for of all things “women preachers.” I would think sexual predation has a lower bar of tolerance for such morally upstanding leaders.
Mark wrote:
Spot on, Mark. At my former church (the one here in Northern California where I was just excommunicated and shunned for siding with the California Attorney General and the Sheriff’s instead of with the pastors/elders’ friend, a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List) the pastors/elders put the sex offender in charge of a clean-up crew following the lunch meal. Only men can hold those positions to head a team and other teams (the exception being women’s ministry and child care). So a man sex offender on Megan’s List is preferable to these pastors/elders over a godly woman who has never been in prison or on Megan’s List. Go figure!!!
Mark wrote:
At this point their moral compass it seems will only be impacted by litigation, just like the Catholic Church (which after 30-years of litigation and arrests has had to deal with child sexual abuse prevention).
Mark wrote:
Well lots of predators will say anything to get access to children. How can we forgive something (sexual abuse) that wasn’t done to us by that predator? Our role is to evangelize (with firm boundaries in place) and protect children from further harm. Look at all of the families whose children have been sexually abused by someone at church who will never step foot in a church again? I know families like that and it breaks my heart and I completely understand.
Michaela wrote:
Would you agree that a mark of a truly repentant offender would be welcoming such boundaries as a means of avoiding temptation and falling into sin again?
This is one of those sins where the offender may be forgiven, but can never go back to a situation as though the sin had never been committed in the first place. Such sins/crimes represent about as serious a breach of trust as is humanly possible to commit, and the person may be welcomed back into fellowship, but by definition they cannot be allowed ever again in a position of trust. You cannot take the risk of another fall, it is not fair for anybody concerned.
There may be some parallel with being alcoholic – once forgiven and set free, the person who chose this/fell into it has to stay away from all alcohol to prevent a relapse.
A paedophile started attending the baptist church I used to go to, and on discovery via the police, he was allowed to attend, fully supervised and banned from any and all contact with children. It is hardly surprising you couldn’t see him for dust, his profession of faith was never anything other than bogus.
@ Ken:
This concept should be applied to adulterers and abusers of all stripes. Unfortunately, we don’t often see this happen. Women in churches are sent home to abusive husbands. Leaders in churches are given the opportunity to lead again after adultery and/or sin patterns are evident. Elders in churches don’t disqualify a fellow elder (Mark Driscoll) over character issues when they should. Pastors want to vet child abuse issues themselves before reporting to police “because a man’s reputation could be harmed beyond repair if it is an unfair accusation.” (This statement proves how little the pastor understands about abuse complaints and how they are actually handled.) The pastor thinks he can sort out the truth better than trained professionals.
Unfortunately, we don’t see many Christian leaders standing up to injustice. Very often it ends up looking like men sticking up for men in the Christian world I’ve been exposed to. Early on in my Christian walk there was a male leader who said the first thing he would do if a woman came to him claiming abuse by her husband would be to have the man leave the home immediately. After that, counseling and the next steps would be determined. I have not heard that type of response in 30 years. Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that women never abuse or have these kinds of issues. I know they can and do. But in the male led world of Christianity, I see something else going on and it isn’t a pursuit of Godly characteristics by the leaders.
Ken wrote:
Agreed, Ken.
Bridget wrote:
Thanks, Bridget. Have you heard of Pastor Jeff Crippen’s blog about domestic violence? Here: http://cryingoutforjustice.com/tag/jeff-crippen/
He’s got several really wonderful people helping him with it, including a woman in Australia who posts and comments.
Michaela wrote:
Thanks, Michaels. Yes, I know of their blog and read there. They have some very helpful information.
An Attorney wrote:
Don’t forget while the molester is grooming his prey, he’s also going to be grooming the pastor and elders (and any third parties in authority) as his allies and supporters.