"That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun."
Aerial View of Bellevue, Washington
Mars Hill Church, which got its start in the rental house of Mark and Grace Driscoll nearly two decades ago, will fade into oblivion on January 1, 2015. Dave Bruskas broke the news on the Mars Hill website on October 31 (see screen shot below).
Bruskas had initially planned to serve as interim pastor at the Bellevue location until a permanent pastor could be chosen. However, those plans have now changed. Instead, Dave Bruskas is headed back to New Mexico to resume the pastorate at City on a Hill, the first out-of-state congregation to align itself with Mars Hill Church.
We are grateful to Warren Throckmorton, who has been diligently providing updates on this ever-changing situation. In a recent post over at Patheos, Throckmorton revealed:
The elders of Mars Hill Bellevue, soon to be doing business as Bellevue Church (or will the church be called Soma Bellevue?), have decided on Jeff Vanderstelt as their teaching pastor.
Soma Bellevue? That definitely got our attention. What in the world does "soma" mean?
The urban dictionary defines 'soma' as:
A drug used in Huxley's futuristic utopian novel "Brave New World." The substance is supposed to have the affect of modern drugs, yet no side-effects. Could describe bliss, oblivion, pure love, or pure utopia.
In the pharmaceutical industry, soma is "a muscle relaxer that works by blocking pain sensations between the nerves and the brain." Hmmm…
Then Warren Throckmorton provided another update that included this screen shot of an internal communication:
Several things jumped out at us, specifically:
Soma Tacoma and Family of Churches
Where have we heard "family of churches' before? Oh, yes… Sovereign Grace Ministries. We immediately began to wonder whether there were any similarities, so we started digging…
The We Are Soma website features this description:
SOMA IS A FAMILY OF CHURCHES WHO BELIEVE MISSIONAL COMMUNITIES ARE THE PRIMARY ORGANIZING STRUCTURE OF THE CHURCH AND THE MOST EFFECTIVE MEANS FOR DEVELOPING GOSPEL-CENTERED DISCIPLES.
On the About Soma page, Jeff Vanderstelt is a member of the Servant Leadership Team, focusing on Vision / Equipping.
The Soma Training page indicates that there are several different learning tracks, specifically: Soma School, Soma Immerse, and Soma Residency.
There are four one-week Soma Schools planned for 2015, with the cost being $500 per person. Soma Immerse is a 10-week summer program with one session geared toward high school students and another designed for college students and young adults. Soma Residency is obviously a longer commitment. Church planting is the name of the game at Soma.
The Soma website has quite a few resources from articles and blog posts to audios and videos. Also, there is a page titled Our Distinctives which is certainly worth a look. The most surprising piece of information (in our opinion) is found at the bottom of the page (see below).
NOTE: We adapted many of our theological distinctives from The Doctrinal Distinctives of Acts 29.
What is really going on here? Because the lingo on the Soma website is so similar to that of Acts 29 (words like 'missional'), it was a dead giveaway.
So far, there are 23 churches scattered throughout the United States that belong to the Soma family of churches. And guess what — most of these churches are part of the Acts 29 Network! What kind of game are they playing? Could it be that the Driscoll debacle has tarnished Acts 29's image so badly that it will eventually morph into Soma?
On the Q&A page, Jeff Vanderstelt responds to a variety of questions. Here he is explaining how Soma began and what inspired its name.
If you peruse the Soma website, you will see all kinds of resources. One of them is a pdf file focusing on DNA, which stands for Discover.Nurture.Act. Check out this screen shot from that file. See if you can spot the word that alarms us.
If you've been reading here for a while, you probably spotted it immediately – shepherding. How reassuring that Soma calls it 'gospel shepherding'. No doubt most of those attracted to Soma churches are too young to know anything about the shepherding movement, which was created and implemented by the Fort Lauderdale Five. These men have apologized for the great harm their accountability groups caused decades ago.
Take a look at how Soma describes DNA in this screen shot from page 3 .
Then on page 5 of the DNA pdf file, an explanation is given regarding D (Discover) N (Nurture) and A (Act). (see screen shot below)
Sorry, but this sounds just like shepherding to us. It seems eerily similar to the Redemption Groups of Mars Hill Church and the Care Groups of Sovereign Grace Ministries. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.
As we celebrate Thanksgiving with our families, we want you to know that we will be giving thanks for our wonderful 'family of TWW readers'. If churches can be described as 'families', we believe internet communities can as well. 🙂
We appreciate the important contributions you make in this online forum, and we are grateful for each and every one of you! Blessings to you and your loved ones.
Lydia's Corner: Genesis 26:17-27:46 Matthew 9:1-17 Psalm 10:16-18 Proverbs 3:9-10
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Well, happy Thanksgiving!! And, isn’t SOMA also a lingerie store for plus size women? Just wondering. Haha!! Doesn’t it feel a little like the old Centipede game? That critter huddled all over the screen, dividing and reforming so quickly, it was hard to see what happened…. These guys are slick. Watch out Bellevue, you’re liable to end up with one very used car for your troubles.
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Wait a minute. First? I wasn’t even trying!
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These DNA groups sound like you always have to be doing something something something with 2 others to make sure you properly exhaust yourself. Hopefully that is not how they work out.
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Soma also is Greek for body, as opposed to the spirit or mind. (And it’s the name of a puzzle I’ve always liked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_cube )
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FWIW, for a few years, I’ve been wondering if, sooner or later, these kinds of semi-formal to outright formal “associations” and “networks” of churches will get undone because of sharing legal liability for the actions/inactions of any “member.” If leaders/ministries/churches share organizational affiliation, they may well know what’s going on within some other member ministries and among their leadership. So, suppose a “member” happens to be doing anything illegal or unethical, then silence by others within the network could end up problematic for them, if people knew but did nothing to stop it and/or to alert appropriate civil authorities. (Think of it as sort of a macro-version of the allegations of cover-up at the micro-level within SGM).
I could be totally off in my intuitive take on what could happen. But I think some *major* push-back from inside the Church and from civil authorities may well be coming down the turnpike. And I see that sort of virtual-network liability as at least one potential direction things may be headed with groups like the Calvary Chapel “franchise” and Sovereign Grace Ministries and 9Marks and Acts29 and Soma and maybe even a whole lot of other acronym groups (NAR, ARC, TGC)?
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@ Lisa:
Yes, Soma and Soma Intimates are trademarks of Chico's Brands Investments, Inc. and they market to women of all sizes. Just sayin'. 😉
Congrats on being first, and Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
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@ srs:
I believe you're right about that. Sadly, it will take a while for the young people they attract to figure it out.
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@ Arlene:
Thanks for this info on Soma. It's obviously a term with various meanings.
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@ brad/futuristguy:
We always appreciate your insights. Your intuition may be right – we'll just have to wait and see.
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Birds of a feather flock together.
And “Soma Tacoma” would really get annoying to say after awhile. Just saying.
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Deb wrote:
thanks Deb … I’ve been working off and on a while about a piece on “trends, turning points, and tipping points” related to the survivor communities and what *could* be happening based on what seems to have been shifting since the last time I did this a few years ago. And these issues of a-little-too-loose of associations without any substantive accountability keep coming up, and maybe we’ve been witnessing the beginnings of how they’re backfiring. As you said, though, we really will just have to wait and see.
Thankfully, what is plausible, when it isn’t also preferable, gives us an opportunity to consider what is preventable … which is part of the reason strategic foresight tools are important for our group discernment processes. Keeping tabs on what seem like they are trends often proves important for intercepting problems-in-the-making before they get entrenched.
Anyways, onward and upward … and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
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I guess the names Xanax Church and Vicodin Fellowship were already taken?
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@ Corbin Martinez:
They’ll probably call it SoTac, like the abbreviated name for the Seattle-Tacoma airport, SeaTac.
It does sound pretty ridiculous (the full name).
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@ Arlene:
As in the word “somatic.”
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Websters also defines soma as “the body of an organism.”
More…
Origin: New Latin somat-, soma, from Greek sōmat-, sōma body.
In biology we talk about “germ cells” (i.e. eggs and sperm) and somatic cells (i.e. everything else).
Their DNA thing is likely a play on that.
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numo wrote:
That’s almost as bad. If they really call it that they should just say “sotacky”.
My church changed it’s name from “Canyon view Christian fellowship” to “Newbreak”. That’s when everything starting going downhill.
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Dr. X wrote:
Those are probably the names of rave DJs.
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Soma is also a mythical or historical but lost intoxicating beverage favored by deities in the Hindu pantheon. Karl Marx could have said “soma” instead of “opiate.” I find the choice of a word with such negative connotations betrays an astonishing lack of culture among the founders of this venture; calling a church soma is roughly on a par with a government forming a “Ministry of Peace,” if you’ll forgive a pun relating to the other classic of British dystopian literature.
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Before I had my first back surgery, I was prescribed Soma as a muscle relaxer….put me out cold….so maybe this describes the effect the service has on the folks sitting in the pew?
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The DNA groups sound like a variation of Life Transformation Groups that I believe originated from Neil Cole and CMA (Church Multiplication Associates). I believe that in the LTG, the members agreed to read a large passage of scripture everyday for a week and then answer a set of questions. The questions tend to be tailored for the group, ie., it is not uncommon for a set of questions for a women’s group to specifically ask if a member has had sexual fantasies about someone other than her husband or if she has been responsible financially. The groups also usually have an evangelistic portion where members pray for specific people to come to know Christ, etc. Soma is not the only place these groups are happening.
http://storage.cloversites.com/lifecommunitychurch5/documents/Womens%20LTG%20Card.pdf
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brad/futuristguy wrote:
What an intriguing comment! I hadn’t thought about it.
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srs wrote:
If it was only exhaustion in a physical sense. However, I think it will be exhausting and discouraging on a psych/spiritual sense as well. One person is the designated leader. That leader will probably be responsible for reporting what is going on. And, if enough sins/unbelief is not being *uncovered,* then there will be leader changes. And then *turmoil.* You wouldn’t catch me anywhere near these groups.
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Dr. X wrote:
In Tacoma, one could try “The Grass Is Greener” church.
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numo wrote:
Or so tacky!
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Dana wrote:
Things keep getting wackier and wackier!!
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Happy Thanksgiving to Dee, Deb and their families.
Thankful for the both of you!
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So if Soma churches are also Acts 29 churches, does that mean the churches that are part of those “families” pay two sets of fees – one to Soma and Acts 29?
So Jeff Vanderstelt is just another celebrity preacher with a “vision” that is more important than the Gospel – could have knocked me over with a sledgehammer. What is wrong with those people at Bellvue? How many times do they have to be chumped before they realize they’ve been worshipping men, not God?
As far as their DNA groups go, same old mind-controlling cr@% based on sin-sniffing. No one in their right mind should EVER participate in these groups. Every sin you confess will be used against you to increase their control over you, in way is it to help you. I’ve never seen any of them that focus on God’s love and how to love God your neighbor – the two most important distinctives of being Christian, but that’s just what Jesus said, not Jeff Vanderstelt, so what do I know.
Soma – just another mind-controlling, sheep shearing Vampire ‘Ministry’ that exists only to suck you dry.
Personally, I’d rather be seen wearing Soma clothing than attending a Soma church.
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@ Happymom:
Love you too. Husband has a conference in Baltimore in June. I am coming with him and would love to see you all! A reunion at Smashburger, perhaps?
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JeffT wrote:
Well said! That states my concern precisely!
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Dee,
Wonderful, give me a day and time and I’ll be there!
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dee wrote:
Thanks for stealing my line.
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dee wrote:
The main idea being that “omertà” cover-up becomes an “uh-ohhhh!” moment of complicity. And even if not dealt with in the legal realm, such active or tacit support of wrong-doing could go “on trial” in the digital realm. Which I think we’re starting to see already. Push-back against some of these diffused forms of bullying seems to be on the increase. Anyway, that should be an intriguing piece to write …
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Happy Thanksgiving to all Wartburg readers! Hope everyone gets to enjoy the day with loved ones.
Thinking and praying for all those listed above and nmgirl(name?) and elastigirl.
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__
After January, will we ever discover the extent that Marshill’s tithes were possibaly mis-used?
—
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__
Is loneliness so profound that the individuals attracted to these type of 501(c)3 religious groups, which are apparently characterized by a certain type of manipulation and control, have to ‘sell their souls’ for companionship and a sense of belonging?
—
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As a native San Franciscan, I know exactly what SoMa means: South of Market. Market street was the demarcation for decades between finance and fashion on the north and rundown tenements and worn out businesses to the south. Now the area to the south is called SoMa and it’s trendy and upscale and home to AT&T Park where the Giants play on one of the most beautiful baseball fields I’ve ever seen.
I’ll take that SoMa any day.
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So I've spent the morning looking up some of the Soma churches' websites in an attempt to get a full picture. They all have their information in their own words from each other. I see everything from Complementarian to Neo-Calvinism. Some are more vague about their doctrines. The main theme of all of them, however, is definitely shepherding and authoritarian. IMO, they are just one step away from living in one giant home. I got a very cult-like feeling from every website I visited.
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Meet the new bondage, same as the old bondage.
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@ Sopwith:
Yes. For some people it is.
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@ Happymom:
Same to you! It's been a wonderful day spent with family. 🙂
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formerly anonymous wrote:
Absolutely. Hope the word gets out about the revamped and repackaged shepherding movement.
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@ Patti:
Thanks for your input Patti. I haven’t gotten that far in my research. What you have shared doesn’t surprise me.
As we often say here at TWW, Caveat Emptor!
Happy Thanksgiving!
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@ Tim:
Not to be confused with SoHo. 😉 Thanks for the interesting info.
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@ Bridget:
Happy Thanksgiving to you! Have a wonderful day.
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@ Sopwith,
You make a point: “Is loneliness so profound that the individuals attracted to these . . .”
A book entitled: “The Search to Belong: Rethinking Intimacy, Community, and Small Groups” by Joseph Myers takes on this topic of the desire to belong. He peels back some sociological dynamics and gives people some insights into how they are wired and how the church can be helpful regarding Christian community (and not harmful).
People who get swept into these shepherding and authoritarian types of groups may have very little in the way of discernment skills and have no idea what they may be getting into that will harm them–until it is too late.
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This also sounds eerily similar to the “discipleship groups” I was involved in during my years in the Crossroads Movement; also, to the “prayer partner” relationships we had. We were asked how many people we invited to church per day, how long were our “quiet times”, who we were studying the Bible with, and were subject to some serious rebuking if we didn’t live up to the expectations the leaders had.
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Gospel Shepherding?????!!!!! Good flaming night!
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@ Tina:
RUN!
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Dee wrote:
Dee, I already did. Many years ago!
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@ Deb:
Or Soho, in London.
Although these acronymns get ridiculous. Exmple: TriBeCa, in Manhattan, which transltes to “Triangle Below Canal [Street].”
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@ Tina:
That’s because it’s the exact same thing, under a different name and “brand.”
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Why don’t they just drop the pseudo-christian jargon and admit that these small group leaders are essentially spies/handlers for the goals of the party/pastorate.
The eerie similarities to early communist cells are astounding.
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@ numo:
You must watch Million Dollar Listings where Fredrik sells in Tribeca
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Are their DNA Groups(TM) rated and classified from Alpha-Plus (Pastors/Apostles) to Epsilon-Minus Semi-Morons?
Still, “Soma Tacoma” has a certain ring to it…
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doubtful wrote:
Are they also part of the Seven Mountains Mandate to Take Back America and restore A Christian(TM) Nation?
Come the Rewolution, Comrades…
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numo wrote:
And so ChEKA becomes OGPU becomes NKVD becomes KGB becomes FSB…
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Deb wrote:
SoHo (Needless to Say)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUYCF1AnFOs
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dee wrote:
Or JUICIER and JUICIER for the Woman’s Group and its Pastor/Confessor/Commissar.
“I SEE Things…”
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dee wrote:
Party Cells of Three Comrades with one being the Commissar?
Where have we heard this one before?
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Dana wrote:
DNA…
CMA…
LTG…
More three-letter acronyms than the Federal Government, USSR, and Microsoft combined.
Or the orgy of terrorist group initials at the end of Bruno Bozzetto’s “Grasshoppers”:
PLO!
KKK!
LSD!
(then it really gets ridiculous)
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William G. wrote:
I think that was Huxley’s source for the word.
We are talking about a subculture known for both delusions of grandeur and total cluelessness.
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Corbin Martinez wrote:
Well, it does have a rhythm to it, kind of like a car engine on idle —
“Soma TacOma, Soma TacOma, Soma TacOma…”
Not quite the fast-march cadence of that small-press comics title from the Eighties;
“Pre-Teen! Dirty Gene! Kung Fu! Kangaroos!
Pre-Teen! Dirty Gene! Kung Fu! Kangaroos!
Pre-Teen! Dirty Gene! Kung Fu! Kangaroos!”
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I hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving! I myself confess to have committed the sin of gluttony.
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JeffT wrote:
I’ll admit I was gluttonous myself….I wonder if one of these mega-pastors see this as an opportunity to pass the plate, so you’ll contribute in order to ” cleanse your sin?”
SMH…
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I don’t care if it’s the Fort Lauderdale Five, the Chicago Seven, or the Indianapolis 500 — they are ALL guilty! (Rom. 3:23)
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I’ve pondered for a while that these authoritarian bent neo-denominations are the worst of ecclesiastical churches history. These churches want to have boundaries and structure but yet not allow personal choices and conscience. And on top of it there is not true longevity because they are based on personality not something beyond the leader like sacrament or service. Thoughts?
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EV wrote:
Well said. I have been having discussions with a number of people who are moving towards the liturgical churches precisely for that reason.
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JeffT wrote:
I am reading your comment munching on a stollen brought to dinner by my friend from Norway! I have already screwed up eating lightly the day after the banquet.
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doubtful wrote:
I agree. It reminds me of that song “I’m Henry the Eight I am” repeating over and over again.
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@ Sergius Martin-George:
Watch it there about the Indy 500. I have known people for whom that was almost a worship experience. And when they stand and that massive crowd sings “Back home again in Indiana” it is enough to make a body cry. Just saying.
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EV wrote:
No, it’s just the latest incarnation of Elmer Gantry types….these have been around for years. These are the same guys who The Lord won’t know in the end….and there’s been 2000 years worth of them….sadly…
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Nancy wrote:
Lived in Lafayette for four years, so I’m well familiar with the experience.
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srs wrote:
I wonder if the DNA group leaders will somehow work “tithing” into the something you have to be doing.
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From the book “WHY SMALL GROUPS” edited (controlled) by C.J. Mahaney, Chapter 4, Page 54:
“Qualifications for a Small-Group Leader,
A tither. Not much need to explain this qualification. How we spend our money reveals our priorities. A man’s commitment to tithing reveals much about how he views God and his church. Would you want a man who wasn’t tithing to have the responsibility of leading your group?”
Hmmmm, “A man’s commitment to tithing reveals much about how he views God”
More on the above statement later…
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Foot wrote:
How close in metric is that to simony? About two skips and a hop, I am thinking.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I think I’ve met my match for humor.
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Corbin Martinez wrote:
“Pre-Teen Dirty Gene Kung-Fu Kangaroos” was an actual small-press comic in the B&W indie bubble of the Eighties, when after the runaway success of “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” everyone was jumping on the bandwagon. B&W Indie Comics became THE Hot Investment for a time; then the bubble popped and wiped out most indie comics. As you probably guessed, “Pre Teen Dirty Gene Kung Fu Kangaroos” was one of many-many parodies of TMNT.
And then there was “Doctor Drugoo”. Imagine Hunter S Thompson as Mr Magoo and you have Dr Drugoo. Far as I know, it was a bootleg undergound comic local to San Diego. Only issue I saw was a “Shame on You, Dr Drugoo” which was a panel-by-panel parody of the infamous Jack Chick Tract “This Was Your Life”. Happy ending — after dying and going through the Jack Chick Last Judgment too stoned out of his mind to care, Dr D gets released from Hell due to overcrowding and goes back to whatever he does. Like I said, Bad Craziness.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I’ve heard some comics get pretty crazy and funky, though I’ve never been into them.
Anyway,You have nice delivery and tone. I like it.
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Love TWW! Check out the book Days of Fire and Glory for more about missional community & gospel shepherding back in the day.Nothing new under the sun indeed.
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If anyone’s still checking this thread…
From the Our Distinctives page:
EVERYDAY RHYTHMS
In order to lead people to see all of life as mission we must equip them to engage in everyday rhythms with gospel intentionality – doing what they would normally do differently in light of what God has done for us in Jesus Christ.
Everyday rhythms are activities that humans engaged in prior to their rebellion and now are engaged in by all people everywhere on a regular basis in all parts of the world. These rhythms of life are not the result of sinful rebellion (like relational discord, suffering and death), but they have been affected by sin. We show the world what it looks like to worship God in all of life by living out these same rhythms in submission to Jesus Christ.
These everyday rhythms are Eat, Listen, Story, Bless, Celebrate, and ReCreate (Work, Play, and Rest).
***
This part sounds a little weird to me. Somehow, I’m getting a whiff of legalistic, man-made tradition going in the direction of pseudo-monasticism. When I read the following quote from Trademark church in Boise…
“Imagine a community of Jesus followers that lived as family, cared for each other, and shared their stuff (like tools, talents, meals). Imagine a family of servants that supported each other, prayed for each other, and learned to follow Jesus together by living life together.”
…I almost get the impression these folks are trying to be the next Jesus People USA movement. I just hope they’re not trying to create a Gothard-like long and ever growing list of “best practices” that are not prescribed by Scripture.
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My greatest concern comes out of the section on Holy Spirit Empowered Ministry.
The relevant quotes:
“The model for our reliance upon the Spirit and our experience of his indwelling and empowering presence is the Lord Jesus Christ himself who was filled with the Spirit and entirely dependent upon his power for the performance of miracles, the preaching of the kingdom of God, and all other dimensions of his earthly ministry.”
“The Holy Spirit who indwelt and empowered Christ in like manner indwells and empowers us with spiritual gifts he has bestowed for the work of ministry and the building up of the body of Christ.”
Call me crazy if you want, but the way that first part is worded makes it sound like Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, would have been unable to perform any miracles on His own without the active presence of the third Person of the Trinity. Maybe my understanding of the incarnation is faulty, but I always thought of Jesus as capable of doing any miracle of His own power, or effectively communicate God’s truth even before His baptism by John. If this is not true, He could literally not function as a co-equal, co-powerful member of the Godhead at least until being “filled” with the Spirit. Which in turn would imply that His assuming our humanity required emptying Himself of divinity. I think there was at least one ancient heresy in the early Church that covered this idea. These guys need to be careful; a screwed up Christology is not a small matter. It has all kinds of implications for the atonement, the resurrection, Christ’s high priestly function, etc.
“All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still available today, but not one of them in particular is required to give evidence of the baptism or filling of the Spirit. The gifts are divine provisions central to spiritual growth and effective ministry and are to be eagerly desired, faithfully developed, and lovingly exercised according to biblical guidelines.”
So not only are they continuationist, but that phrase “central to spiritual growth” implies that churches not utilizing ALL the spiritual gifts may not have an effective ministry. I can appreciate their avoidance of the doctrine that unless you speak in tongues you’re not saved, and also wanting to stay within biblical guidelines. They seem to be a type of neo-reformed/charismatic hybrid, perhaps of the John Piper sort.
Holding potentially heretical doctrines of the Trinity, however, is of far greater portent than even their views on the gifts or whether their small group practices resemble the Shepherding movement. If they can’t or won’t bother to get the core doctrines right, this Soma “family of churches” really will be the cult their name already sounds like.
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NJ wrote:
Not only am I continuationist, but I hold it to be self-obvious that reasonably large sub-groups of the Church not utilising all the spiritual gifts may not have an effective ministry.
More than self-obvious, it’s almost a tautology. The Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus by taking what is his and giving it to us; every gift of any kind given to the Church is, by definition, useful for the common good and/or part of what we need for effective ministry. It’s true that not every single area of ministry always needs every single gift. Nevertheless, if any particular biblically-described gifting is not in evidence at all in the local church, we should at least be open to the possibility that something is lacking. And we should be honest enough to consider why it’s not in evidence: is it that it really isn’t necessary or would be a distraction, or is it that we’re stubbornly rejecting it? Jesus himself could do * little when he returned to Nazareth because, we are told, of their hard-heartedness and unbelief.
* “Could do” – is exactly what the greek text says. It doesn’t say that he could have, but chose not to, for instance.
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dee wrote:
I’m a few days late for my cue, but…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o
NJ wrote:
Or, in the spirit of carelessly chosen nomenclature, perhaps they should call it… THE RHYTHM METHOD. If only it would stop reproducing, right? 😮
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@ Bridget:
thank you, bridget. you are so kind. i’m touched you’d remember.
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NJ wrote:
Ok, this is where the line is crossed. I don’t loan out tools. Period. Especially to “Christians~TM”. So count me out.
JeffT wrote:
Spot On!
All of this stuff makes me want to puke. This stepford-wives-check-your-brain-at-the-door-do-what-I-say-not-as-I-do type of religion is exactly the type of Cr@% the Neo-Cals tried to bring in to our church. And they have not gone away either, they left moles behind and are busy planning their next offensive, as I found out just this weekend.
It reminds me of “Gettysburg” (the film) and Little Round Top. “Here they come again!”
I can see why people migrate toward liturgy. The incredibly arrogant thing is, these corporate cults masquerading as “churches” also have a liturgy, they just don’t call it that. At least in a liturgical church (in general) it ain’t about the man in the robe.
The more I read/hear/see, the more it appeals to me.
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“Could do” – is exactly what the greek text says. It doesn’t say that he could have, but chose not to, for instance.
Nick, it’s one thing to say that Jesus chose not to fully utilize His power during the incarnation. It’s another thing to say that He literally -couldn’t-. Either He was fully God while also being fully man, or He wasn’t.
“Or, in the spirit of carelessly chosen nomenclature, perhaps they should call it… THE RHYTHM METHOD. If only it would stop reproducing, right?” 😮
“Ok, this is where the line is crossed. I don’t loan out tools. Period. Especially to “Christians~TM”. So count me out.
LOL…you guys crack me up.
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Doug wrote:
Or the bald head and HUMBLE(TM) chuckle.
Or the fluttering hands.
Or the Manly Man faux-hawk and Mickey Mouse T-shirt.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Yeah. I am starting to think that there is something in the DNA of the “free church” that makes is morph into a personality cult, regardless of the size. I see the signs in my own little tiny tribal church all of the time.
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Doug wrote:
I think it’s because it IS completely independent, and that holds for independent house churches and independent megachurches. With complete independence, there’s nobody with acknowledged authority outside the independent congregation to provide a reality check if they start drifting off.
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NJ wrote:
I agree: it is. Which is why it is so profoundly shocking and offensive, to many people’s religious sensibilities, that (as I pointed out) the scriptural text plainly states the latter. It is worth remembering just how much of western thinking grew out of Greek philosophy – significantly, though not only, that of Plato. Rather than the Hebraic culture in which the Holy Spirit inspired the OT. There are other things the Bible states God to be incapable of: for instance, lying (in Hebrews 6), and denying his own nature (in 2 Timothy 2). Both references explicitly describe something as being impossible for God. This might have offended Plato, but it need not offend us.
I don’t think anybody in this immediate discussion (accepting that not all TWW regulars are professing Christians) is denying that he was. It is precisely because he was perfectly in union with the Father that I have no trouble accepting that there were, in principle, things he could not do.
Now, whether that means Jesus was dependent on the Holy Spirit to perform miracles or not is another debate. Actually, it’s several nuther debates. There’s a difference between power and authority, for instance. But, TBH, it’s not one that strikes me as all that important. Could Jesus have been separated from the Holy Spirit? Was he, equally, dependent on his Father? (He certainly seemed to hint as much several times that John recorded.) Are Father, Son and Holy Spirit eternally one? If so, their being dependent on one another doesn’t diminish the Deity of any of them.
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Instead of speculating and anticipating more of the same toxic-type agendas from the new pastor of Mars Hill Jeff Vanderstelt, You might want to do some better research than cherry-picking from the website and interpreting it through the lens of reader. here is an interview from Christianity Today about his church in Soma 4 years ago. They are far from the controlling cult-like churches and faith communities that are described in the comments above. http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2010/march/missionshift-introducing-jeff-vanderstelt.html?paging=off
Also, here is what one reporter observed: “Vanderstelt’s selection is ironic. According to a former lead pastor, when Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll planted Mars Hill Tacoma, Driscoll bragged to a meeting of pastors that, ‘We’ll hand Vanderstelt his ass once I’m there.’ It appears that Vanderstelt held onto his backside.”
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/11/25/mars-hill-bellevue-a-new-lead-pastor-once-targeted-by-driscoll/
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joel wrote:
I would assume that any church would present themselves *best foot forward* on their website. It is the proper place to go to learn about the values and systems of an organization unless you are saying that they are lying in their presentation.
joel wrote:
Do you think that Driscoll made that statement because Vanderstelt was more *godly* than Driscoll? I believe the statement was made because Driscoll wanted to take over and get more ATM machines attending his church. It's a numbers game.
I read the article in CT. Vanderstelt was discussing diversity, yet he has bought into the Acts 29 value system which is not diverse in any sense of the word. Acts 29 is full of leftover mini-Driscolls who still want to do Driscoll type church.
Finally, any guy who uses the words *gospel* and *shepherding* together is either naive to history or is into shepherding. However, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say “Wait and see.” But we are certainly going to warn our readers to carefully consider the various aspects of their value system. I would assume that anyone would think that is prudent to do prospective exploring.
I, for one, would not join a *DNA* group until I watched what was going on.
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Deb,
The selective definition you choose for SOMA is a sophomorish game, at best, on your part. You are playing the same type of games that others accuse Mars Hill and Driscoll of playing. Shame on you. You lose credibiity when you stoop to this level.
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joel wrote:
The guy is a blogger, not a reporter. Please, figure out the difference between the two.
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Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
We didn’t choose the name SOMA, SOMA did. Both of us have MBAs and are familiar with marketing techniques. When a group chooses a name, there will be a gut reaction to that name in the marketplace. In fact, when I first heard the name SOMA, I thought of the drug “Soma which is used treat muscle pain since I am a nurse by training.
Also, they chose to call it a “family of churches.” The moment I heard that I thought of SGM. Perhaps you all could use someone to advise you on choosing names that do not have history attached to them.
Finally, they chose to call their form of discipleship *gospel shepherding.* Shepherding has quite a history. I would have advised them to go with the word “discipleship” as opposed to shepherding. Fewer connotations.
Sorry,but this isn’t stooping to any sort of level. This is telling you like it is. Its being real.
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Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
Would you care to share with us your opinion on the difference? There is quite debate going on these days and the lines are being blurred. Google it.
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@ dee:
Dee I know you like to fancy yourself as a reporter. I like to think I am Barack Obama.
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@ dee:
No, Dee, you didn’t choose the name. But you were selective in the definition you used. These types of childish games are beneath you…or are they?
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dee wrote:
Yes, its being real. Being real childish.
For someone with an MBA coming from a nursing background I would expect more. But again, if you want to play the same sort of games played by Mars Hill and all the others, have at it.
The Mark Driscoll DNA seems to have infected you, Nurse Dee.
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Dee,
To be a reporter requires one have a degree in journalism. All a blogger needs is an internect connection and an opinion.
And we all know what they say about opinions.
Heck, should I run around calling myself a doctor now, just because I can Google symptoms online? Of course not! Don’t be silly.
dee wrote:
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@ Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye:
I’m not sure who is the one who is playing games but we allow critique. Thank you for your input.
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Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
Actually, some recent court decisions disagree.
Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
You forgot living in your mother’s basement with lots of Cheetos.
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dee wrote:
Once again youre playing fast and loose…. all the courts decided was that bloggers possess the same first admendment rights as journalists.
“The New York Times’s media reporter David Carr wrote about the case that year, ruling it less about journalism than Right and Wrong: “She didn’t so much report stories,” he said of Cox, “as use blogging, invective and search engine optimization to create an alternative reality.”
“So everyone—not just journalists—benefits from the First Amendment’s protections, which makes bloggers (even slimy ones) legally equivalent to journalists*. Cox’s case will get a new trial in Oregon’s district court, and the jury will be appropriately informed of the Gertz rule.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/us-court-bloggers-are-journalists/283225/2/
Seems as though Cox isn’t the only blogger creating alternative realities.
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Huxley's Finger in Your Eye wrote:
Sorry, HFIYE, but I absolutely disagree. Whenever one chooses a name to identify an organization, it's important to consider the connotations. I stand by my point that SOMA was a poor choice.
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@ Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye:
Bless your heart! You are helping our readers to see what people will be getting into when they join a SOMA church. Thank you.
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dee wrote:
Dee, how so?
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dee wrote:
Took the words right out of my mouth, including the Bless His/Her Little Heart.
I don’t think journalists are required to earn advanced professional degrees nor are journalists licensed in my state or the ones I’ve lived in anyway that require sign painters to be licensed, for crying out loud. Journalists are those who do journalism, including our Adorable Blog Queens and Certified Discernment Divas. Some purported journalists don’t have a clue what they should be doing to earn the designation. ISTM that the best journalism in the church WRT all things Mars Hill has been done by those whose professional training lies elsewhere.
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Gram3 wrote:
journalism
[jur-nl-iz-uh m]
noun
1. the occupation of reporting, writing, editing, photographing, or broadcasting news or of conducting any news organization as a business.
2. press1(def 31).
3. a course of study preparing students for careers in reporting, writing, and editing for newspapers and magazines.
4. writing that reflects superficial thought and research, a popular slant, and hurried composition, conceived of as exemplifying topical newspaper or popular magazine writing as distinguished from scholarly writing:
He calls himself a historian, but his books are mere journalism.
Hey! at least they have the “superficial” part down pat!
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Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
Really? Is there a Reporter’s License one is required to obtain for which a degree is required? A reporter doesn’t need a degree any more than a minister does.
Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
A ‘blogger’ is a description of the medium used to communicate, whether what they are doing on that blog is reporting is a whole other matter. Although it’s clear that you use the term “blogger” as one of derision in order to try and dismiss anything said on any blog as something to be avoided.
Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
It wasn’t a definition, it was an analogy – one which the SOMA founders left themselves wide open to given their choice of name and their statements.
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@ JeffT:
Certain DNA never changes.
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dee wrote:
🙂
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JeffT wrote:
Jeff, You and gram make a very good point. These days it takes very little intelligence and integrity to be a journalist/blogger. Any ol shmuck can do it….
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dee wrote:
Dee, Your arrogance, it reminds me of Dricoll. You and he are cut from the same cloth, no doubt.
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Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye wrote:
I guess for simple minds it’s easier to simply dismiss all bloggers because of the medium they use rather than pay attention to what they are saying and engage them in a substantive discussion, especially since ad hominem attacks are much easier for the intellectually lazy.
Moreover, you must still be living in the previous century. The Internet is rife with blogs that are informative and thoughtful – in fact, many ‘real’ reporters from mainstream media organizations have picked up stories they read on a blog {GASP!}
But, some just prefer to be bigoted and condescending I guess.
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JeffT wrote:
Funny Jeff that you should talk about being “bigoted and condescending”… But, God Bless you all the same, Brother.
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Huxley's Finger in Your Eye wrote:
You, too, could be a blogger. Wonder if anyone would read your posts?
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Huxley's Finger in Your Eye wrote:
And you are qualified to make this assessment???
Why do you even bother reading here.
BTW, it's 'Driscoll'.
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@ Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye:
OK-we get it. Let me write it out. We are arrogant like Driscoll, cut from the same cloth,childish, nothing bloggers with little intelligence, condescending, bigoted and we have stepped on your toes. You, on the other hand can use the dictionary, you like real reporters and are far more intelligent than we are.
I have listed these to show you that we get your point.From this point forward either dialog thoughtfully or move along. This is getting out of hand.
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@ Huxley’s Finger in Your Eye:
Hux, you’re the one who came here blasting away from the start with nothing more than personal attacks and derision because of the medium used, without a word on the substance of the issues raised in the post. Nor did you discuss the issues raised in any of your subsequent posts, all you ever offered up were personal attacks. If you’ve got something to say in defense of SOMA I’d be happy to hear it and discuss in a respectful manner, but that doesn’t seem to have ever been your intent.
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Deb wrote:
There’s always room for more Loudmouths and Net Drunks on the Internet.
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Deb wrote:
Deb, Huxley_sticks_two_fingers_up_from_his/her_brave_new_world’s_eye is a blogger. (S)he just hasn’t got as far as creating his/her own blog yet, at least as far as (s)he has been willing to make us aware here.
Still, a cool pseudonym is a great start!
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@ Nick Bulbeck:
P.S. And, of course, lots of people have read his/her posts – TWW is up to 14,431,990 hits as I write this.
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Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Actually we pay Huxley to keep clicking on our site. We forgot to pay him!
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@ dee:
Are you sure it’s a him? Aldous Huxley was male, of course, but there are other Huxley’s and any one of them (or none of them) could be the inspiration for our friend’s interweb monicker. It could even be his/her own name, of course.
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Corbin Martinez wrote:
And Tacoma is known for rather smelly air pollution, known locally as the … wait for it… “Tacoma Aroma”. I am sure Soma Tacoma could turn “aroma” into some acronym for another “do something with two or more other people” program…
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You have described this connection perfectly! In fact, a few years ago I met with Jeff Vanderstelt along with the other staff of a church in Boston. Not long after, I was forced out of that church because I made these exact same connections. Yes, some things do not change!
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I saw “Huxley” and thought Bill Cosby.
Then I read the tone and thought Driscoll.
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Someone asked way earlier in the thread if people are just so lonely that they fall for the shepherding trap? I think so.
I wanted to belong and to become somebody. The church groups that had Shepherding tendencies spelled out what was expected to climb the ladder of spiritual “success.” Though my groups were not the worst, they did have the sin sniffing tendencies and group think to the hilt. So even with just the influence, this stuff is really dangerous.
I found it in IFB’s, Calvary Chapels, Mars Hill/Acts 29 and the notions preached on the radio. But a sin sniffing environment is the polar opposite of God’s grace. It’s life-killing, not life-giving. It’s also arrogant and prideful.
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Katie wrote:
Katie, yes. That was my same experience. I hope you are finding healing now.
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I’m dismayed by the stone throwing here folks. The bottom line is the ever-increasing glory of Christ as people, families, and communities find redemption and restoration in him. Jeff and SOMA are merely seeking to be catalysts to this end. Cheap shots at their name, casting aspersions on Jeff’s character without first-hand basis, and general church bashing is tiresome to see and read. It’s not about Jeff or SOMA or your pithy comments and critique. It’s about Jesus. Let’s be about Him and his work in us and our world to his glory.
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__
“Where Would I Be Without Your Love?”
hmmm…
The bottom line is the ever-increasing glory of Christ Jesus,
Yes !
…as people, families, and communities find, or found churches that are safe from cult leaders, spiritual abusers, pedophiles, and quack preachers…
I am optimistically hopeful,
(tear)
Sopy
__
Inspirational relief: From Da Dust: Kaleb Moore: “A Love Like This”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hCx1fhuBg
^^^
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