How many of you remember this classic scene from Star Wars? Luke Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi find themselves entering a Cantina filled with folks from all over the galaxy. (Dee is playing the sax, Deb is dancing).
I think that TWW is a lot like that bar and that is why some folks don't get us. This blog is written by two Christian women who cannot be pigeonholed into a neat theological package. We have friends, and detractors, on all sides of most debates. Those who view our blog from the outside assume, since the two of us are Christians, that we will conduct the business of this blog like some sort of tent revival, attracting only the doctrinally correct (depending on who is doing the judging) who will discuss issues in a well modulated, gospel™ fashion.
But, The Deebs would be so bored with hanging around perfect "Law" abiding citizenry. We prefer to loiter in far side cantinas filled with captivating people who encompass all sorts of theological or non-theological backgrounds. We prefer raucous laughter, blunt opinions, and telling it like it is.
This blog does not exist for the "free to be obedient" crowd. It's for the rest of us. That means that people will speak differently, most likely directly and will be welcomed for doing so. Trust us. We do not aspire to be the language police. We want to hear the truthful thoughts of people from all different backgrounds. We welcome people of all creeds, those with no creeds and those who have no idea what a creed is all about.
At the same time, due to the wonderful people who frequent the TWW Cantina, we have attracted those who have been abused: sexually, physically and spiritually. Many of them do not comment here but are faithful readers, garnering strength from the good people here who put up with no bull when it comes to abuse.
Sometimes, our conversations can be peppered with gratuitous sexual imagery that can cause those who have been abused to feel like we are taking such things a bit too lightly. We are not saying not to discuss sexual issues. This blog deals with child sex abuse as well as Mark Driscoll. We are asking folks not to use blatant sexual innuendoes as jokes or insults.
If you are planning to discuss something graphic (like Mark Driscoll's many utterances) we would request that you place a warning at the beginning of your comment. Words like *trigger alert* or *graphic* are helpful. However, we will not be upset if you forget or do not. We might add it if we feel it would be helpful. In other words, we do not want to shut down communication. We are trying to be sensitive to those who have been abused.
Also, we would ask that references to Hitler, Nazis, etc. be kept to a minimum. My stepfather is Jewish and lived in France at the time of the occupation. As a boy, he had to hide out in the woods for two years. He was chronically sick, cold and hungry. He lost most of his extended family to the concentration camps. There are some bad religious people out there but very few advocate for the annihilation of an entire people group. It could appear that we are trivializing the experiences of those who were impacted by the Nazis when we use those terms loosely.
The numbers of comments, phone calls, emails and Twitter discussions have continued to escalate. We have been approached by media and have turned down most requests, preferring to focus on our TWW community. We simply do not have enough time to research all of our writings, be good friends to all who come here and look cute for the media.
Both of us realize that we are missing things in comments; important things like people's stories of abuse or a sick family member or a hospitalization. And that causes us pain, regret and frustration. We also let some comments through that should have been edited.
So, we have come up with an idea. We have asked a few friends to read through the comments as they have time and alert us if we appear to be overlooking something. These are great folks who share our thoughts on open and honest communication and who also share an aversion to censorship. At the same time, they get abuse and understand the complex issues. We hope they will keep us grounded and responsive without being nit picky. (Said friends: I will be writing to you this weekend.)
A few weeks ago, I was asked to serve on a panel with Fred Brooks in a church class that I attend. Fred is considered one of the fathers of modern computing. He is now in his 80s but is sharp as a tack and I was thrilled to be asked to speak with him. He wanted me on the panel to show how his dreams for the use of computers have become a reality. Believe it or not, he hoped that it would lead to the formation of communities across a broad spectrum of people. He thinks blogging is pretty cool.
I told the class about all of you. I explained that Deb and I realize that there is a real person behind each comment and that we never, ever forget it. It is because neither of us forget that fact that we become frustrated when we miss your important insights.
Please bear with us as we muddle through. We also apologize for not being as sensitive as we should. We make mistakes but really do care.
“It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare.
All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics.
There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. nations, cultures, arts, civilizations – These are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit – immortal horrors or everlasting splendors.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory link
You guys are awesome. Sheer awesome ess in. Deebs-sized package. :). Thank you so much for caring & loving the Body of Christ!!
There really is something special about this community, and the atmosphere you two have nurtured here, virtual community and virtual atmosphere though it may be. The Star Wars Cantina is a great comparison.
Love this post. Love this blog. Thank you!
“That means that people will speak differently, most likely directly and will be welcomed for doing so.”
This was a very timely post. Thank you for taking the time to deal with these issues.
This is one of a very few sites on the internet where, after reading the comments, I never regret doing so. Well, I do sometimes regret not going to sleep three hours earlier, but what can you do when there are so many insightful people? 😀
What can I say….I love this place!! :-p
@ Eagle:
Me too!
what a great post to read tonight.
It is my sincere hope that TWW never loses its ‘Al Andalus’ feel.
Thank you.
My pet peeve? Hijacking of the threads.
So many start out really hashing out the topic of the post, but then get sidetracked too often with triteness and silliness, which just causes me, and I am sure others, to lose interest. In fact, sometimes it gets so bad that I just don’t come back to TWW for awhile. So I hope that in addition to cleaning things up a little, some of the juvenile off-topic banter will be curbed. That’s my two-cents. Thanks.
“At the same time, due to the wonderful people who frequent the TWW cantina, we have attracted those who have been abused: sexually, physically and spiritually. Many of them do not comment here but are faithful readers, garnering strength from the good people here who put up with no bull when it comes to abuse.”
Just wanted to let you know I’m one of those readers. I’ve been reading for about 18 months now and it was sites like this that gave me first hope to start healing, and then the courage to share my own story. (See the ‘Why?’ part of my blog ) Thank you!
@ Anon: I think Dee’s post clearly explains the Deebs’ take on what you think of as hijacking. Conversations do alter, and good humor and enjoyment are often necessary as relief from the heavy subject material discussed in the posts and in many comments.
God knows, if I had to restrict myself to commenting only on radical patriarchalism, sexual abuse, evil men in the ministry etc etc, I just wouldn’t stick around.
A lot of us care deeply about the subject matter at hand, but really… rehashing the same comments over and over makes for burnout.
And I’m one of a slew of readers who was in a very abusive church. You know what? It does me a world of good to be able to talk about other things. And it sure helps me manage the feelings that come up on bad days, when I’m feeling low and things break through from my not so distant past.
Eagle wrote:
And so do I!!.
I don’t comment often but I read this blog every single day! I love you guys and feel like I “know” some of the people who comment often. This place has been a light in the midst of much darkness in the church. Thank you!!
__
“Walk in mercy, and write a big blog meaningful blog, and pray like da heavens’…”
huh?
Why make ‘proverbial 501(c)3 religious KookAid’ when you can bring the world closer ta Jesus, and attempt ta rescue all those that this proverbial ‘religious KookAid’ has cast asunder!
*
hum, hun, hum…
♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ If I could reach the stars,
I’d pull one down for You,
Shine it on my heart,
So you could see the truth.
That this love of Jesus, I have inside,
is everything it seems,
But for now I find, it’s only in my dreams…
♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ That I can change the world,
I would have Jesus be the Sonlight in your universe,
You will think God’s love was really… something good,
Baby, if I could, change the world… [1]
(smiley face goes here)
–
Wartburg Watch, You have changed the world!
ATB
Sopy
__
[1] inspirational relief: Eric Clapton – “Change The World…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kntzQiaFzOQ
lyrics above reflect parody adaptation : Eric Clapton – “Change The World…” All rights reserved; U.S. Title 17 copyright infringement unintended. Songwriters: KENNEDY, GORDON SCOTT / KIRKPATRICK, WAYNE / SIMS, TOMMY L.
Change The World lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/eric+clapton/change+the+world_20051195.html
Comic Relief: Winnie The Pooh – My Hero”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PNcJpkLCY
;~)
—
numo wrote:
Yes, me too.
If all I ever saw in life is the hyper-serious and the dangerous and the damage and the hurt and dismay and ridiculousness of so much of what it is to survive as a human in this day and time, then life would become so burdensome that I could hardly bear it. I believe somebody once said something about consider the lilies of the field…notice how God takes care of the birds…and one of the characteristics of the christ was said to be;
“You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions. ” Hebrews 1:9
If we omit the gladness, then we have omitted something of the character of Jesus, and we have short changed ourselves of something we need to make it though the day.
I’ve been trying to think of a way to say thank you but I can’t find the right words so “thank you” will have to do. I don’t comment often but read regularly. This blog and Survivor are where I first began to realize that I wasn’t crazy – as sad as it is to read so many stories of spiritual abuse – it has also been so helpful. I really appreciate the trigger alerts because I am a survivor of both spiritual and sexual abuse. I love the cantina idea – I have often thought of this blog as a great big 24/7 coffee shop but one that I feel safe visiting no matter the hour. I love the wisdom you show by asking others for help – many hands make light work. Thanks for keeping the cantina open to all.
I really appreciate what you do!
AS an early reader and commenter, I have seen the explosion that you talk about. This is a community that has grown and is growing, both in numbers and in compassion. The trolls do show up, which is proof that you are having an impact or they would just ignore the blog.
TWW has become a presence, a force in Christianity, for truth, for obedience to the great commandments of Christ to love — to be that characteristic of God that causes us to love Him, His love for us. It is not always easy to love, and TWW does it on-line as well as can be imagined. Thank you.
Some day soon, “An Attorney” may cease to appear, and another moniker will replace it. But under whatever screen name, I will be here.
Nancy wrote:
through, not though
Where is that fellow who we invited to harass us about grammar and spelling? I need him.
To Dee and Deb: I get it. I will try to control myself and act like a decent person. Really, I will. Your ideas are good, and what you are doing here is good for a lot of us, and may your tribe increase.
An Attorney wrote:
That’s allowed – you can be “the artist formerly known as…” like mirele.
An Attorney wrote:
Really? I am just now remembering that “attorney” has two t’s / ts / tz / tees /. Okay, maybe I get it now. Just don’t go away. Remembering how many tszees is an exercise that helps me ward off dementia.
Anon wrote:
In other news…
OK, OK, my point is I’m one of the thread-jacking ringleaders.
Point 1 of 2
As several of our friends have already said, TWW is a community. As such, it will naturally give rise to purely social interactions. We share other things in common than our opposition to bullying and abuse, after all. But at the same time, no community will ever be everyone’s cup of tea. We have church groups here in the UK that really do believe they welcome everybody, but they can’t and they don’t, and in some cases they end up not really feeding anybody. I don’t personally think there’s anything wrong with your going off and coming back, as long as we regulars aren’t directly rude to you when you’re here.
Point 2 of 2
It may seem fatuous to say so, but I do get your frustration. I’ve often been in conversations (or listened to radio/TV discussions) that were just about to go somewhere really interesting… when some plonker made the whole thing into a schoolboy joke and the opportunity was lost. It can certainly be annoying, and I would take no offence at the thought that you read the phrase “In other news” as a trigger alert and skipped the comment. Or even just skipped most of my comments.
Point 3 of 2
On the plus side, though, this is not a real-time conversation and the dynamics are different, therefore. I’m sure you are right: you are not alone in being uninterested in news items about tap-dancing poodles, 101 things to do with haggis, or the toxicity of cucumbers. It is always possible to resume a broken thread of discussion simply by replying to somebody’s specific comment and starting with “back on topic” or similar – there will be plenty of takers. I’m sure I speak for others when I say that I hope you don’t ever feel you cannot contribute anything of value. If I understand matters aright, part of the spirit of TWW is that everyone can contribute value.
Cantina? That’s a good descriptive term.
Coffee shop? Never been in one but it sounds good. Contemporary. Missional even. Wholesome.
Don’t tell anybody but I was thinking something a bit more…well…marginal. Remember that old TV show Cheers? That was one down to earth bunch who never got really out of hand. No pretense. No passing out and falling off the stool. No physical fights. No being dragged out by the police. Not a sociopath in sight. I loved that show. It is good when people can go somewhere and they are glad to see you come. Like TWW, I’m thinking.
I was away from the church for about 30 years. I came wandering back after Kitzmiller v Dover opened my eyes to the danger of creationism in our schools. What I found was a church that had left me totally out in the cold. While I was growing more liberal and accepting of diversity, the church appeared to continually move backwards. Now I know there are congregations and denominations that didnt move back to the 19th century, the creationists-dominionists-patriarchs have certainly dominated the conversation.
I was grateful for this community because it gave me a window to see that people still question, still explore, still search for God in their lives and are not driven to obey a bunch of man=made rules.
Mr.H wrote:
Me three…or four? Five?
I love this place….where I am in rural Texas, it reminds me that I am not alone in my thinking….
Nancy wrote:
Making your way in the world today takes everything you’ve got.
Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.
Wouldn’t you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name,
and they’re always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name.
You wanna go where people know,
people are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows
Your name.
Watched Cheers just last night… never get tired of the repeats.
@ Nancy:
Never been in a coffee shop . . . . explainin to do? It must at least be on a bucket list somewhere?
I’ve always thought that when God said “Let us make man in our image”, there was no way to do that in just one man. God Himself is infinite, He is true, He is everything good, He is both love and justice, both grace and law (to echo a current theme). He is so much! One finite human being could never reflect Him completely. Therefore, He made many, many of us and each of us reflects Him in our own unique way. Throughout our lives, He transforms us closer and closer to His own image. I love hearing from all of you who reflect God to me and everyone who reads here. Thank you for being true to your creator. Thank you, Dee and Deb, for everything you do. This is a special place and you’re doing a marvelous job!
May I add that this wonderful strange place is full of people I would actually enjoy having coffee with…ESPECIALLY the thread-jackers and folks with different perspectives AND a good sense of humor. There is wisdom and kindness in this group, along with a healthy dose of taking ISSUES, but not self seriously. Bravo! I am not survivor of abuse, although i have been sucked in by churches of extreme control and/or faulty teaching. I am just a gal saved by grace in spite of/the schemes of man and failures of the church. When I look back on my life, I wonder at the ways of God, and then laugh because He often uses donkeys to make His point. I have spent the last 2 years shaking off the shackles of Beautiful Inane Personality-driven Hipster Christianity (B.I.P.H.) aka Seeker sensitive model, and TWW has been a big factor in my awakening to what is actually going on, as well as to understanding that we are all ( yes, self, you, too) susceptible to prideful stupidity. I have been horrified to discover my own lemming tendencies in trusting the man with the microphone without using much discernment. That has changed!! As we all travel on, thank you, Deebs for continuing to point this strange little ship towards Jesus.
Q@ K.D.:
His Name is YAHWEH.
Ever wondered why there are so many brands of Christianity?
Do you really believe what is written in the Scriptures?
Can you handle the truth about the religion you embrace?
What if you have been deceived by your religion?
Would you repent?
http://www.yahwehsbranch.com
Come see what great things are going on in your life time.
Billy.D
This. post. is. awesome. Truly. Thank you!
I am now imagining some Cantina/Cheers mash-up…how I would love to be able to physically walk in & hang out with you guys. This has been a rubbish few years for me spiritually & the Deebs plus all the lovely Warty Watchers have helped educate, entertain & support me, not the least by being so normal (ie. recognisable as a decent debating/discussion site by those-without-the-church) & not flogging trite christian phrases & limp-wristed non-listening shut-genuine-emotion&debate-down pretend niceyness.
And Nick- if you don’t do ‘in other news’ I will be forced to send my personal email to your blog so you can mail me these individually….I’m glad to know you’re on my landmass 🙂
Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah! Cheers for Nick’s newsbreaks! Keep them coming…
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Though I don’t know of any font for a blog that has an ASCII for the “Formerly Known as Prince” sigil…
nmgirl wrote:
Only the 19th Century, nmgirl?
More like the 16th (Calvin’s Geneva) and 17th (Massachusetts Bay Puritans).
Though the 19th DID have “Zetetic Astronomy” (fatwa proclaiming and proving The Earth is Flat from Scripture).
All I can add to the above posts is that TWW and its community is an important and regular part of my faith journey.
The only suggestion for improvement of the Cantina would be a liquor license.
Nancy wrote:
This was a major reason Star Trek & Star Wars took off and developed such serious fandoms in their days (and MLP:FIM is doing today). When everything is Hyper-Serious and Important Message and GrimDark and Crapsack and It’s All Over But The Screaming, you grab for anything that’ll give you Hope. Whether it’s colorful cartoon ponies or a Chicago machine pol intoning Hope, Change, Hope-Change.
Bridget wrote:
Actually it is worse than that. I don’t like coffee. I do drink it some for the caffeine in the morning first thing, but I really don’t like it. I don’t like coffee flavored candy or ice cream or such. I just do not like green eggs and ham. No, wait. In fact, though, coffee has been a thing which has played a role in helping me get over myself lots of time. Story here.
You all know that first of all I was a nurse. When I was first a student nurse, in the first day of nursing arts lab, the instructors brewed a container of strong coffee and made us drink it black. Sort of a rite of passage. Apparently you had to wear the cap and drink the coffee or else your clinical skills were suspect. Later in life, when I was no longer a nurse, and when I would get called back to the hospital at night for something involving patients with one foot in the ER and one in X-Ray and it was not going well, the ER nurses would practically meet me at the door with a cup of strong black coffee. Now these were wonderful people. My own kind of professional health care people, and after all those years that I worked nights while going to school in the daytime? My tribe being good to me. I would never offend them. But black coffee? Help me. I used to wonder if maybe I should complain to Himself about was it not difficult enough to haul out of bed after maybe two or three hours of sleep, but black coffee? Do I have to do this? So I would say thanks, take the cup and carry it around with me for the duration of the event. If I may cross a line here-was not this sort of a cup of communion?
Well, you say, don’t drink it black. I don’t, at home, in the morning. But I still don’t really like it. And I don’t want to waste the calories or money on something I don’t enjoy.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I love Nick’s ‘fatuous’ thread-jacking, makes my day. A cool balm on a hot summer’s day. And to Dee and Deb, I’m grateful for all the effort you put in. I appreciate you have family, friends, slobbery pets, other interests, work commitments and so on, and yet you consistently have continued. You’ve answered every email. You’ve written this gracious post. Thank you.
Lisa wrote:
This is a great comment. I feel like raising a virtual glass [of craft beer, ideally] to toast this blog and its lovely creators. Cheers!
Billy D. wrote:
Stop it! Just stop it!
Stop letting your ego get in the way thinking Jesus is going to come for your generation….you want to see Christians suffering for the faith, go to N. Korea….it ain’t here in America…
@ Victorious:
So if this is Cheers can I be Norm? Sarcastic and obnoxious describes me when discussing fundagelicals!!
It was thanks to the blog queens and “Cantina” regulars that I got my own blog off the ground. Thanks so much TWW!
Eagle wrote:
LOL! I thought your desired name was “first!”
Deep down everyone at Cheers loved Norm and we love you, Eagle! Sending a virtual hug your way!
I love this place. I love you guys. All of you guys.
I am a TWW wallflower, but I’m always reading, and always grateful for the grace the Deebs exude. <3
Why do I read TWW?
Because it is witty, well written, gets to the point and is a source of encouragement.
Why so? Because it helps me realize that although Christians can be corrupt and abusive and appear to get away with it, there are other people out there (also including Christians) who are taking note and warning people. So Christians are not so bad after all – I’m one of them (don’t take this too literally theologically speaking!). Something can be done about it.
I am glad when I see people trying to discredit TWW because then I know the message has reached people. The more backlash the better in my view.
We need more investigative journalism, more TWWs, although I know D and D are unique.
Keep going TWW …..
1) I look forward to the day when blogs like TWW will be unnecessary, but in the meanwhile I appreciate the willingness to call a spade a spade.
2) A little surprised that the multitude of denominations, associations, coalitions, and “large churches that have become their own denomination” (*ahem* Mars Hill) don’t have one or more forums for abuse survivors. They are missing out on a huge market share.
3) I’m not sure if some of the powers that be realize how pathetic they appear when they try to control the narrative. First of all, sack up and call a spade a spade. Second of all, if you can’t allow people to speak openly and honestly about their experiences and feelings, then you are basically pathetic. It shouldn’t be that my “secular” education is not only orders of magnitude better quality than seminary, but also filled with much nicer and more mature people, including faculty.
Nancy wrote:
Would you eat it in Japan
With Godzilla and Rodan?
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
From my own experience at Seventies-vintage Cal Poly Pomona, I remember a couple outstanding faculty, three truly awful instructors/professors, and most of the rest in-between. And the Science-Fiction and D&D Gamers clubs.
Hester wrote:
In commemoration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPf-MRKITg
Billy D. wrote:
Don’t spammers go bye-bye?
Nancy wrote:
…
…
…
…
…
…
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Whhhhh… [error: insufficient data to process this comment. File not found.}
@ Eagle:
I love this place! Found TWW via Eagle from over at Internet Monk, when he linked to y’all.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
You actually may need to get off that little island and get out more.
I read TWW every day, often re-reading each post. I have only commented a handful of times, but have been here since the first few posts. Thank you for running this blog with excellence.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
I don’t get it either……but then, I drink Seaport Dark Roast….that’ll put hair on your head…..or in my case, take it off…:)
I found your blog via Internet Monk. I’m not one to comment, so many here express what I think better than I ever could! I just want to say keep shining light in those dark corners and keep sweeping under those rugs. God bless!
I’ve not been posting or reading as much here the past few weeks, so I’m not totally sure what is behind the OP.
If Wartburg Watch is the equivalent to the Mos Eisley Cantina on Tatooine, I call dibs on being Han Solo. 🙂
As to the Anon commentator who said he doesn’t like off-topic comments or friendly banter.
If I skim a post and see it may not be of something of particular interest to me, I just scroll past it and keep scrolling.
A blog is a little different from a discussion board format.
It’s not like on a forum, where people can make a thread about a specific topic and then a new one to discuss a whole other, new, separate topic.
On a blog, after initial discussion of the original post peters down, you are going to see people bring up new stories or other things to talk about in the same thread. I think that’s pretty natural.
I also don’t mind most of the friendly exchanges and some of the joking or recipe exchanges. The subject matter here can be heavy and serious at times, so a little levity is appreciated, and it gives you more a sense of community, IMO.
The folks feel more like friends or acquaintances, and not just intellectual talking heads on a blog.
I mean, I have a feeling if I truly need help with an issue in my private life, I could reach out and contact some of the folks here, and they’d help, actually help, even if it’s just prayer… I don’t think you’d find that on most other blogs.
Han shot first. That is all.
mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
You dang skippy he did! 😆
mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
There’s not much I am dogmatic or orthodox about, but that is one of my core beliefs.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
As to
point 1.
I want to see more links and stories about tap dancing poodles.
There are few times in life it is ever wrong to discuss tap dancing poodles. Don’t let any anonymous posters intimidate you out of talking about them!
2. I think I may scroll past any haggis posts, or anything about “sweet breads”.
3. I’m ambivalent about cucumbers. I give you my permission to post about cucumbers. 🙂
Deebs, this is the most gracious and generous post I’ve ever read. Thanks so very much for running a cantina for us wanderers!
@ Lisa:
Awesome post. Awesome comments – especially yours, Lisa.
A toast to Deebs and company — Sláinte!
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
BTW, as one who grew up with that phrase, and still occasionally messes up and uses it, it has acquired unhappy racial connotations in much of this country. So the usage gurus are suggesting that we should no longer use it, lest some become offended. Much like “the pot calling the kettle black”. I am not personally offended but it is possible that some may and we should find other expressions to teach our children and grandchildren.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
+100
One reason I love the TWW Cantina is that it stands against all the religious Tarkins of the world who insist on increasing their control over their congregations and narrowing the number of things you are allowed to believe in order to be considered ‘Christian’.
“The more you tighten your grip, Tarkins, the more people will slip through your fingers.”
@ Billy D.:
For you, with a hug, from Leonard Cohen:
“When they say REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant.
You don’t know me from the wind
You never will, you never did but
I’m the little Jew who wrote the Bible.
I’ve seen the nations rise and fall,
I’ve heard their stories, heard them all
But love’s the only engine of survival….
When they say REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant.”
Josh wrote:
I can relate! I log in some late hours at times, but it’s worth it!!! 🙂
My comment is in moderation! Imagine that… 😆
Great post, and the comparison to the Mos Eisley Cantina is spot on.
One of the best craziest times of my life was spent living in a place that was often referenced as the Cantina. Life has certainly been crazy in good and bad ways for several years now for me. Been reading TWW since mid-2012 or so and its a really unique place.
The perspectives of TWW folk are so very helpful and appreciated during this period of my life where my faith has been challenged and has changed and grown (for the better).
Finally – any consideration of moderating “off topic” comments a la Nick’s wonderful and witty “in other news …” blurbs really needs to be on hold until after 7 June, 2014 @ 6:00 p.m. EST.
That is, of course, post-time for the 146th running of the Belmont Stakes, the final leg of the U.S. Triple Crown of thoroughbred racing.
I will be needing to hijack a thread or 2 (or more) to compare handicapping notes with Dr. Fundystan and others. So again, please consider deferring any decision on limiting off-topic debate ’til then, mmmmkay? 🙂
Jenny wrote:
Do dheagh shlàinte!
Nancy wrote:
Compadre!
I haven’t had coffee in God alone knows how many years, and the idea of typical American coffee makes me shudder. I do like a good cup of Turkish/Greek/Arab-style coffee, though it’s been aeons since I last had it. They know what to do with the beans, and the taste is so so SO much better than anything that was around when I was younger. You can stand a spoon up in the grounds at the bottom of the demitasse cup it’s served in, but oh, it’s worth it!
Rafiki wrote:
… et pas le final d’Ouvert Français? Avec Rafa et Novak en cinq sets? On-hon-hon-hon, zut alors!
C’est vendredi soir, alors c’est le vin qui parle maintenant, naturellement. On-hon-hon-hon, et tout ça.
numo wrote:
IMHO, if you can push a spoon into it, it’s not strong coffee.
Sláinte!: Google files this under usefull Scottish word meaning “health” in a toast.Do dheagh shlàinte!– pronounced ur do ghay lancha-y”our good health.” So, back at you with a Polish salute: na zdrowie
@ numo:
Numo, your loving ode to proper Arabic coffee is duly noted and appreciated! 🙂
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Zut alors indeed!
Go Rafa!
But that said, there have only been 11 Triple Crown winners since 1919. And the last was Affirmed in 1978. Longest TC drought in history. Perhaps “Chrome” can finally break it this year. Will be thrilling regardless of the outcome!
Great post, and I’m definitely enjoying the comments. One more thing to add, that’s absolutely huge for me: no one is trying to fix me. Nor do I see people trying to fix each other.
The potential for codependency in a group of survivors is enormous. “I don’t have to deal with my enormous depth of shameful feelings if I point fingers at someone else.”
I hope I have not done anything like that to anyone here. If I have, please point it out to me, so I can address it as personally as possible.
I’m sure that many people already know this, but giving unsolicited advice to a victim of trauma can be horribly abusive, causing a person to re-live his or her trauma, something most trauma victims are not looking for when posting to a blog.
@ dee:
And I was about to jump in and say “Na Zdaroviya” in Russian, so close to the Polish! Forgive my bad English translation of the Cyrillic. 🙂
An Attorney wrote:
Really? Really? I had never even heard that before. And I’ve made residence in 11 US states! Thanks for the heads-up.
Rafiki wrote:
I’m actually thinking Danza on this one.
@ HUG:
When you posted that YouTube link I was really afraid it was gonna be some kind of pony version of The Scarlet Letter. The internet being what it is, I’m sure that actually exists somewhere. The Peeps version, after all, has already been done.
@ Nick:
Hey, bash cucumbers all you want. I think they’re the spawn of the devil.
Deb wrote:
“Self-policing” takes on a whole new meaning …
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist: err, yeah. Big time. (Of course, you might be jesting, but somehow I doubt it.)
@ brad/futuristguy: I don't think I said anything objectionable. 😉
An Attorney wrote:
I had not heard that until right now. Certainly one should not use offensive language. But, you know, cast iron is not pink or blue, apologies to Paula Dean who may have other ideas. It is getting to where almost every word in the language might offend somebody. I listen to my daughter the public school teacher talk about the teen age slang in the three predominant ethnic groups that she teaches. Every group has its own vocabulary of slang, such that the answer to the question “what does that word mean” seems to depend on who you are talking to.
But, you know, I was taught “school marm” talk in the way, way long ago as a child, and I guess I can do it. It is precise, grammatical, stilted, cautious, and one has to carry a thesaurus in one’s purse at all times, but it can be done. One must use the subjunctive and use passive voice frequently, of course. And one must say “one” a lot. But it makes me mad. How come other people get to form their own vocabularies and such and not only do I not have that opportunity, I must restrict my vocabulary to suit somebody else’s druthers, so to speak, if I may say so, in want of a better word, no offense intended, blah and blah.
Arrrrgh.
I stumbled upon your blog when I moved back to Raleigh and it was instrumental in helping me cope with the authoritative narrow beliefs that are more prevalent in my family. I was living in Charlotte during the great Elevation take over, then moved to more of the same with some family members. To read the diverse opinions peppered with love and grace has helped me slowly return to faith. I also am relieved to see people who call out spiritual abuse and the big business practices in many churches. People around me would rather ignore the victims and defend “church”, whatever that means. Thank you so much for your blog. Please do not pressure yourselves and take lots of breaks. Do not burn out! As a community, I am sure there are members here who would be able to step in and . help in anyway. I know I would do grunt work and do not live very far from you guys! You have my e-mail.
@ numo:
I’d never heard that “calling a spade a spade” was offensive either. I didn’t even know it had racial connotations. So is my ignorance a Yankee problem or just ignorance? 😉
I hope that spade thing isn’t racially weighted… it’s been said I’m so blunt I ‘call a spade a spad’.
Hey all
Thank you for your kind words. It sure makes me smile. Sometimes, with the topics we discuss, I can get a little down on things. You guys lift up my spirits. I am blessed.
According to Wkikpedia: To call a spade a spade has a long history
Its ultimate source is Plutarch’s Apophthegmata Laconica (178B) which has την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας (ten skafen skafen legontas). σκαφη (skafe) means “basin, trough”, but Erasmus mis-translated it (as if from σπάθη spáthe) as ligo “shovel” in his Apophthegmatum opus. Lucian De Hist. Conscr. (41) has τα συκα συκα, την σκαφην δε σκαφην ονομασων (ta suka suka, ten skafen de skafen onomason) “calling a fig a fig, and a trough a trough”.
The phrase was introduced to English in 1542 in Nicolas Udall’s translation of Erasmus, Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus:
Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade.
It is evident that the word spade refers to the instrument used to move earth, a very common tool. The same word was used in England, Denmark, and in the Netherlands, Erasmus’ country of origin.
The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, “to call a spade a bloody shovel”, attested since 1919.
The phrase predates the use of the word “spade” as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928;
Hester wrote:
I understand “spade” was a cussword meaning “black man”, but it never achieved the level of casual use or intensity of insult as the “N-bomb”. I think black comedians (and even Mel Brooks) got some mileage out of puns on the word.
Calling a spade a spade has another etymology, one which would be a great interest to the sex police.
Beakerj wrote:
BeakerJ, this is America.
EVERYTHING here is racially weighted at some point.
Race is to us what Class is to you Brits when it comes to resentment and hostility.
Nancy wrote:
It’s called “Tyranny of the Most Easily Offended”.
AKA “Whoever throws the loudest and most destructive temper tantrum on the least pretext wins.”
Hester wrote:
Never heard of a Scarlet Letter/Pony crossover, though I did assist on a Silver John/MLP crossover. Most Pony crossovers have to do with Warhammer 40K or whatever’s trendy in pop culture first-person shooters this week. Sturgeon’s Rule on steroids.
Thank you Dee, Deb, the many commenters, moderators and the Guy Behind the Curtain who make this blog possible. I nearly went over to the dark side a couple years ago before I found this blog. I was already reading Mohler’s works like they were law and the girltalk blog as well. Then one of my friends brought up Mars Hill and how that church was so awesome. Finally something clicked and I realized that I needed to be reading both sides of the story, which lead me here. I went through quite a detox process as I read about the things that my favorite religious leaders were hiding. Somehow in the process of reading Mohler I lost a key part of my personality, that which questions everything (I have been questioning everything and everyone since the day I could talk; my parents were grateful for the Internet and research labs so that I could research topics to my heart’s content). The wonderful ladies here reminded me to always compare what men and women claim to be Biblical to what is actually in the Bible. I am very grateful to all of you. I have learned so much from the many commenters as well.
I have also learned that this blog is my guilty pleasure. 🙂 I should be finishing packing up so that I can move on Sunday afternoon but a break was in order so I naturally wandered over here. I really won’t have much time to comment in the next 3 or 4 weeks as I move 1400 miles away and hopefully find a job. Oh, and get married! I’m kinda excited about that part in case you can’t tell. 🙂
Mandy wrote:
You sound just like me!
Mandy wrote:
Any way you can send us a picture of your wedding? You could face away from the camera for anonymity. I would so love to see you in your dress. Getting married and moving can be lots of fun. I did that as well. Within a year I had moved to Rhode Island and then out to Gallup, New Mexico. What a ride! I wish the same for you.
Deb wrote:
Good to know. But it starts getting kinda convoluted when you think of a blog owner in moderation in their own blog, but not for anything immoderate, though some object must have been potentially objectionable, but wasn’t and therefore was potent enough to get through moderation. Or something like that.
See what great things can be written with 1.5 cups of coffee in one’s system?
Naww, I didn’t either. But was worth a try!
Oh wait — did that qualify as an acceptable off-topic topic?
Cool.
I have been a daily reader here for several years – I think I followed Eagle over from I Monk….a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…. 😉
Seriously, though, as my blog writing/reading waned into almost nothing (haven’t even posted on my own blog for over two years – working on that…), I still come here every day. I love the people here. I love the discussion – even when we disagree – strongly – we still continue to dialogue.
The subject matter written about here is near and dear to me….I just found out a new thing about my former pastor & family’s shenanigans that almost cost a young lady her life. I care deeply about what is going on in and through this medium. Dee and Deb, you have my admiration, my prayers and I have your back in whatever way you need. Just ask. 🙂
As to the rest of you lot….thank you. “Listening in” on the conversation – occasionally joining in, has renewed my faith that not all Christians are club wielding tyrants or well-broken mindless followers. The spectrum of experience, belief, perspective is freeing – it helps more than you know. I also would love to meet for coffee (or any other beverage) and just talk with you all.
As to the Mos Eisley Cantina, you will find me in the band….. 🙂
Dee –
Speaking of wedding dresses, what happened to the picture of the French bustle?
@ Beakerj:
It most certainly is racially weighted, as you’ve guessed.
@ Nancy:
Well, understanding about your coffee dilemma 😉 , the concept behind the coffee house, though, is much the same as Cheers. It’s a place for the local community to gather and converse. You can also get mucho other items to enjoy besides coffee. Now, my idea of a gathering place would have coffee, craft beers, good wines AND chocolate on the menue!!
@ Nancy:
I have started saying “that’s like the pot calling the kettle a utensil” (aka “tool”) which is a common diss in many subcultures in this country.
And in other news….someone dropped out of the spotlight, because of his INTEGRITY, not because of being accused of a crime, and he remained out of the limelight, in spite of many rumors surrounding him. Go figure.
Maybe CJ could get a clue from this guy? Probably not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/29/steve-blues-clues_n_5401429.html
I don’t always comment, but when I do, I try to make it pithy / humorous.
Seriously, thanks Dee & Deb for everything !! I found you through New BBC Open Forum years ago & I have learned so much about Christian doctrines from reading various blogs / bloggers.
Just this morning I was telling my wife about the kerfuffle in the TGC about Antinomianism which I first heard about from your link to the Janet Mefford show. She looked at me and just rolled her eyes!
Laughing is FUN . . . and great for the soul. My soul is greatly gooded whenever I read through the posts and the comments here.
I’m so happy to have happened upon those (rare individuals) who call an absurdity absurd and live to laugh another day.
L’chayim
Great analogy!
A friend just told me that it “feels like a big deal” when someone finally comments after being a reader for a long time. I was worried that the pastors would somehow find out I was even reading this site. When I actually started “thinking out loud” here, I was slightly terrified. Well, I got caught! They found me hanging out within this cantina of blunt opinions, and of course, I was immediately given old fashioned church discipline. Although that matrix deliverance was only months ago, the FELLOWSHIP here has dramatically improved my perspective.
Thank you for pouring so much heart and soul into this. Thank you everyone who simply lives outside the walls of fear. PEACE and LOVE!!!!
I appreciate a place where people aren’t afraid to ask about difficult situations in the evangelical world, and where all are welcome to responsibly comment. Thanks for all your great work!
@ Dr. Fundystan
“don’t have one or more forums for abuse survivors. They are missing out on a huge market share.”
consternation!! How did they miss that option? A perfect place to force….um, I mean … lead posters to repent of their church spiritual abuse . . .
for, of course, a significant fee, um…. donation … um, I mean …. Now set free to obey the commandment to tithe,
(well, with the goal of a 90% tithe — being the spiritual elite and all, ya know)
the posters would, of course, be coerced into . . . um I mean. . . feel led to respond with a substantial free will offering (after all, the benefits of having one’s sins pointed out???? priceless!!!).
oh, wait . . . . do they allow free will ?????
@ An Attorney: I think the original made much more sense when people were still using cast iron stoves and cookware, seeing as pots/kettles got black residue on them that had to be scrubbed off.
Ok, sorry to break in during all this love, but Tullian just APOLOGIZED for the way he acted last week!! Helloooooo…..? WWHY?
Forgot the link: http://www.pastortullian.com/2014/05/30/reflections-on-my-break-up-with-the-gospel-coalition/
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Brooks was recently featured on PBS’s American Masters and he bemoaned the fact that it would not be possible for him to do The Producers or Blazing Saddles in today’s PC climate. Personally I think he’s hilarious and so did Tavis Smiley when he had him on his show. Smiley couldn’t stop laughing, nor could I. In my opinion Brooks is one of America’s premier funnymen. There were extremes of offense in the past grant it, but when a gaggle of well meaning culture warriors (they’re all alike no matter the stripe) want to expurgate Twain’s works of the dreaded ‘n’ word regardless of context, the pendulum has swung too far and the climate becomes both Orwellian and dangerous.
Does anyone else think it’s great that this has basically transformed into an open thread about anything? And we’ve already covered completely related topics like MLP crossovers, racial slurs and the proper brewing of coffee.
I’m the introvert in the corner of the bar, nursing a glass of Chardonnay and listening to the conversations :). Seriously. I know I almost never comment, but I’m here everyday and have learned so much from Deebs and many of the commentators — I’m amazed and encouraged by your insights, and your kindness, and your willingness to challenge one another… I’m a homeschool mum of 3 (a believer, but not YEC, not courtship — sometimes a very lonely place to be) and I am so happy to find this sweet hangout of reasonable souls. Blessings on you all. I wish we could have a nice pot-luck and hang out for reals.
Jeannette Altes wrote:
Listen for the cantina band theme in this (around 1:55):
Star Wars Theme – Cantina Band (7 inch edit) by Meco on You Tube
@ Hester:
TANGENTIARAMA!!
favorite lines from Young Frankenstein…
“…alive…..ALIVE……IT’S A L I V E!!!!!!!!!!”
@ Hippimama:
didn’t you see me? I pulled up a chair a while ago. I’m the one who brought the candle, and asked for a set of string bass and brushes on drums.
Hester wrote:
No, I think it was inevitable that this would basically transform into an open thread about anything!
Muff Potter wrote:
One of the hardest-hitting soundbites spoken in the English language was Muhammed Ali’s stated reason for refusing the draft for Vietnam (at least, it was attributed to Ali):
I was internetting a wee while back to try and verify the quote, and I came across somebody who’d quoted it on his website as Ain’t no Viet Cong ever done nothing to me. Obviously, he wanted to get rid of the offending word, but in doing so he showed that he had no idea what Ali really meant.
Hippimama wrote:
We will. Eventually. While some folks are being prim and proper at some sit-down banquet in the now and eventual kingdom of Jesus, some of us will be out on the lawn at a picnic/barbecue with all the fixins and a live band (probably high schoolers who think they can play, but who cares.) So if you are still of a mind to hang out, there is where you will find some of us. You bring your favorite dish and y’all come. In the meantime, hang out here with this bunch. That would be now here on TWW and then out on the lawn.
Don’t comment much either. And I try to keep up with all comments and posts. Having a few teens makes this challenging.
I was so glad to find this blog because I was so glad to realize I wasn’t crazy and that the things I was seeing taking place in Christendom weren’t just my imagination. Someone else saw and actually cared.
And I want you to know that I’ve shared what I learned here with others who think they are going crazy. So thank you.
And:
The SW reference is awesome
Coffee is one of God’s best gifts to mankind
I really enjoy the off topic threads
Thanks again for all you do!!!
@ Victorious: I'm new here. I don't really do this type of thing. Often happy just reading. Not terribly trusting. Afraid of making lasting connections. I came across you all after visiting sites like SGMsurvivors, Spiritual Tyranny, and Brentdetwiler.com. I'm an ex-SGM member, and have a history of spiritual and sexual abuse. I was brought to tears by the lyrics of one of my all-time favorite TV shows, Cheers. Thank you, TWW, for this place. Thank you, Nancy for reminding me of the lyrics.
Sites not sights
@ Myfatherschild1:
Welcome to TWW! Dee and I have never been involved with SGM, but we sure have done a lot of research on this 'family of churches', beginning close to six years ago.
We have read much over at SGM Survivors and the now defunct SGM Refuge, and we have communicated with a number of SGMers (current and former) who have been hurt in some way.
In our five years of blogging we have written extensively on matters pertaining to C.J. Mahaney and SGM. Since you're new, you might want to search our archives for articles that might be of interest.
We hope you'll continue to read here and chime in from time to time.
Myfatherschild1 wrote:
Made the correction for you. 🙂
Hester wrote:
LOL! I missed out on all of this while writing yesterday's post. Yours is a great 'observation'. 😉
@ Kindakrunchy:
Did I hear you correctly? You have “a few teens” and you can still say that you are not crazy? That is so awesome. How do you do that? I am seriously impressed. Some of us, while we did not actually go crazy when our kids were teens, nevertheless thought maybe we had. Just saying.
Myfatherschild1 wrote:
Yeah, two great places–that show and here at TWW. Nice to meet you. Hope you hang around.
@ Nancy:
Nancy wrote:
And we will sit on the green sward and drink that good wine, and laugh till we cry, and talk of all manner of thing, and all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.
Phew! Glad to hear you won’t be making fun of educated women who choose to wear a hat in public anymore.
Or the sweet wife of CJ Mahaney.
Or people who love their churches despite their faults.
You have at times behaved like a bunch of mean girls and if that ends, this could end up being a decent blog.
@ Shato:
Your perception is a bit different than every one else.
Where has anyone made fun of the “people” who like their imperfect churches?
Do you know CJ Mahaney’s wife? What is she like to you?
Shato wrote:
Are you trying out to be this blog Cantina’s Darth Vader, or the Sith Emperor?
(I already called dibs on being this blog’s Han Solo.)
Just to note, I almost always have at least two Chrome tabs of TWW open at once, And I only need to type “T” onto the url bar and it autocompletes TWW.
Love the community the Deebs have created and their hearts for those broken by the Church.
Shato wrote:
Hmmm, we have heard from some ex SGMers who might disagree with this assessment. How do you know that she is sweet? Mahaney’s wife reigned supreme throughout the years of SGM which are well documented on SGM Survivors. Do you think she gets a pass on the goings on?
Shato wrote:
Really? I do not think your critique of us is based on our disagreements with Mrs Dr Dorothy or Mrs Mahaney. We have history, girl! I knew you might show up after the Morales verdict. Tough news for SGM. Layman knew and he didn’t report it.
@ Bill Kinnon:
TWW loves Bill!
@ Shato:
You confuse those who comment with the bloggers themselves. They have never been like mean girls. You need to clean up your loose thinking and your own misanthropy.
One day soon you too will know and understand where the name of the Christian savior came from.
Sad thing is it will late.
Having spent 47 years in the Christian religion I will always be thankful for those who told and have shown me truth about Christianity.
Would you be able to tell the difference between the real Messiah and the fake messiah if your eternal life depended on it?
Here is a prof that will Stand the test of time that Christianity is not the path that the HEBREW PROPHETS and the apostles of the True Messiah taught and followed.
Check it out.
http://www.yahwehsbranch.com
Okie
@ elastigirl:
This one’s for you elastigirl. Franken-Steen & Eye-gore. Brooks is not afraid to lampoon anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxxSIX3fmmo
I’m another who hangs out here on a daily basis, mostly reading, occasionally adding a comment or chirp. I appreciate everyone’s insights and enjoy the banter and the warmth and compassion.
JeffT wrote:
Great idea!! I’ll supply the bourbon (water by).
zooey111 wrote:
Nancy wrote:
I drink tea, & I have ceased apologizing for that. Coffee is simply Not My Brew. (I read somewhere that the Irish drink more than twice as much tea (per year, per capita) than the British. Aha!! 🙂 I said: the ghosts of my Celtic ancestors have returned in my taste buds.
zooey111 wrote:
I, too, like tea. (As well as kwafi.)
I also like both beer and wine.
I also hate both sour cream andcucumber.
@ Shato:
OBO regulars everywhere, welcome to the blog, Shato. I hope you don’t feel too out of place here!
@ Billy D.:
He’s back! Didn’t think we’d see him again.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Yes. On that note I’ll say good morning and good night!
@ Kindakrunchy:
With apologies to Nick, for the past year or so, when I hear of prestigious institutions of learning, I think of Krunchy Academy, where Pastor’s Son could have learned about the Gospel for a mere $50k!
@ Bridget:
The odd thing is… Put yourself in Billy’s shoes. You have The Truth that everyone in the Christian world has missed for the better part of two kiloyears. And it’s vital and urgent: they’ve all been deceived and are hurtling towards the precipice. So you send mailshot comments to every Christian blog you can find. These comments are all that stands between your readers and eternal damnation, so it’s really important that they be taken seriously.
Wouldn’t you at least proof-read them?
In other news, as part of my goal to climb all of the Donald summits of southern Scotland in 2014 (quite a big ask as there are 140 of ’em), I did the complete round of the Ochil Hills yesterday.
Total distance of 28 miles, which isn’t that far, but as the last 8 miles were all on hard tracks along the Devon Valley and I hadn’t packed any trainers*, I have very sore feet today. I am therefore walking like an extra from Shaun of the Dead.
Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow.
* Trainers are similar to the shoes known as “sneakers” in the US. They are commonly used for sports training rather than sneaking.
I have enjoyed the blog posts here at TWW and think it is most necessary for people to be able to rehumanize themselves after going through spiritual abuse by a charismatic leader. My fams current church managed to survive its founding pastor and have actually received some survivors of MHC. As you were…;-)
I like the cantina analogy. I consider myself one of the aliens sitting in the deep shadows, observing almost all that goes on but only offering comments on subjects that match my very narrow concerns and expertise.
I am impressed by the depth and breadth of the knowledge represented by so many commenters. I also appreciate the first hand sharing of personal stories that are given. Occasional trolls provide humor.
Deebs, you are to be commended for maintaining the TWW discussions at such a high level.
oldJohnJ wrote:
You add great depth to our group. I am so grateful that you choose to hang out with us!
@ Himself:
So, I clicked on the link and heard some awesome music! So, what’s the backstory? Is that your group?
oldJohnJ wrote:
I hope you’re not Greedo, since I’m Han Solo. 😆
OTOH, if you are Jabba the Hutt, I am in serious trouble! You’re going to put me in carbonite. 🙂
@ Daisy:
I don’t identify with any individual characters. I just like the concept of a very diverse community that can get along agreeably.
oldJohnJ wrote:
I understand. I was just being silly. 🙂
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Very good! I read David Whalley’s blog and saw that the Munroes were just done in 44 days – second fastest human-powered circuit. When I grow up…
@ Heather:
I missed that – it wasn’t mentioned on Munro Magic. The fastest human-powered circuit remains 39 days. Which entails, by simple arithmetic, an average of around seven 3000-foot summits a day. There are, at most, three groups of hills in Scotland where hillwalkers of average fitness consider it possible to climb 7 Munros, and they are all very long days by most peoples’ reckoning.
Add to this the fact that quite a few Munros are single isolated peaks and that, to climb even 3 or 4, entails descending to low level and either walking across a deep glen or cycling some distance by road, and 39 days (or 44 days) isn’t as easy as it sounds!
@ Nick Bulbeck:
I like the singing of Donnie Munro– does that count for one at least?
Sadly, he can no longer scale all the musical summits successfully, as happens to men of a certain age.
Dave A A wrote:
I have always maintained that the only acceptable rules for hill-walking are the handful of widely-accepted common courtesies that boil down to: don’t spoil the countryside for everyone else. If you consider Runrig to be a hill-walking experience, then enjoy, say I.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
One down, 282 left to go. Of course, in my home state, I have 2530 Munros to climb… Sigh…
For more information on Munros and the risks associated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munro
The primary risk of Munro-bagging is addiction!
In other news, at the French Open, Kiki Bertens and Andrea Petkovic are 5-all in the deciding set, which – given the number of breaks of serve – neither of them seems to want to win. David Ferrer is two sets up on Kevin Anderson; they’re on serve in the third.
Since both matches are likely to be over by the time most stateside TWW-ers are up and about, this information is of course 92% useless.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
And, in the latter case, moot, since neither Anderson nor Ferrer has a hope of beating Rafa at Roland Garros!
Though – and after this one I really must get on with some work – Novak vs Rafa will be a great final if the weather holds for them this year.
I’ve no problem with telling it like it is, including letting the emotion show. Some christian leaders need to ‘feel’ a bit of what their teaching or actions (or inaction) can do to other people. In the UK there is a culture of covering up truthful speaking by being ‘polite’ even to the extent of being dishonest rather than seem to be offensive. This does not mean that outright bad language is acceptable, and is usually counter-productive anyway.
I liked the post because I have felt for some time that some comments made here seriously undermine the goal of the site. Serious thought needs to be given to current trends which happens in the articls, but just emoting about them in the comments is no answer, and will not convince those who need to change their mind about error and deception going on Christian circles. It could have the opposite effect and convince them their critics are the ones who are unhinged.
On some occasions I have wondered if the poster, assuming the mantle of being Christian, was really an apostate evangelical turned atheist who knows the jargon and right buttons to push simply to stir things up, and then enjoy the fray they can create. This is spiritual warfare after all.
Humour can also be a legitimate weapon if used in the right context, without belittling the seriousness of a subject. Nothing wrong with mocking the prophets of Baal and their crazy antics on occasion!
Finally, in other news, I quite like Nick Bulbeck’s comments ….
@ Nick Bulbeck:
This was his schedule. Any one of those days would be a highlight of my life!
http://chris-upson.com/Munros/DanMunroSchedule2014.pdf
@ Ken:
There is such a thing as a troll, I realize, but some of the posters who participate here are open about their spiritual status.
We have at least two participants who openly admit to being former Christians but who now identify as atheist.
I’ve said before I’m kind of murky about what I am. I’m somewhere on a scale between Christian and agnostic.
Given that there is a mix of people here, you are going to see some opinions that standard, conservative Christians may not agree with or feel are proper.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/covenant-life-church-pastors-face-scrutiny-over-ex-church-members-abuse/2014/06/01/f439a376-e835-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html?hpid=z3
So what does the aforementioned 06/01/2014 Washington Post article have to do with CJ’s 7 year plan???
http://abrentdetwiler.squarespace.com/storage/edited-pdfs/Part-1-Response-Regarding-Friendship-Doctrine%20with%20links.pdf
Page 94 and thereafter…
“From: C.J. Mahaney
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:38 PM
To: Brent Detwiler
Subject: RE: 7 Year Plan
Well, I haven‘t thought about it for a few months so I am not sure I have much
to share at this time. It primarily involves continuing to cultivate relationships
with key leaders while adding a few and possibly writing a book on pastoral
ministry before I delegate all this to Josh.”
Huh? These are your tithe dollars at work???
PDI/$GM, got $pin?
Hmmmm, perhaps the IRS/FBI can shed some light on the above, cause it does seem like a HUGE puzzle. And, the conspiracy will take some time to sort or map out…
Or, Mexican food at the TWW Cantina might help.
Love, love this post TWW. The broad inclusiveness and heartfelt warmth come right across. Warms my heart. Nice to zoom out now and then for those who find themselves here without knowing the particulars and like me, were a little jumpy because so many places feel like there is an “inside” and one isn’t sure if they should enter. For me, being on here doesn’t mean I’m a church hater in any way- rather holding up all those who quietly do real love and service and get tarnished by the glaring abuse of some.
Been bizzzzzzy (thank God) with work so I’ve missed several posts. Glad I caught this one. It’s the hearty, healthy mix of differences and honesty on here that I love. Oh and brilliance, wit, and kindness too. Thanks for the post!
Now I gotta go back and read every single comment. 🙂 Yum.
@ Jackie:
A warm welcome from TWW Scotland, Jackie!
(Though I’m not, personally, Scottish – an English ex-pat, to be exact.)
@ Nick Bulbeck</
Ahh Nick- I always enjoy your comments I must say. Love the mix of "in other news"… And them wham- brilliance right on the mark. You were especially kind regarding my dump of pain regarding losing my bro. A while back. So, are you really in Scotland? How cool, this semi Luddite is enjoying connecting from Chicago to who knows where. (Not really a Luddite any more- tech allows me to work freelance from home these days.)
@ oldJohnJ:
I must say ditto to this one. Me too.
@ Nancy:
Lovely. Said it like I wish I could. Humor and silliness does lighten the burden of life. On days when I’m too intense I often think of the lillie’s in the field just being themselves. (And hopefully they crack up laughing here and there.)
(I’m still dumbstruck that you’ve never been in a coffee shop. But if everyone was like me, there’d be too many of us buzzing about dreaming of their next cup. Still, can’t imagine… Spoken like a true addict. What can I say).
I don’t comment often, because frankly, you are all smarter than I am. 🙂 But I came here after Nancy Campbell of Above Rubies told me that my recurrent miscarriages were the result of a “curse” on my womb, placed there because my grandparents were divorced. Imagine my shock when I found out that actually, I have celiac disease and a genetic mutation that causes me not to absorb folic acid. I cut out gluten, added in methyl folate and baby aspirin, and found my “womb blessed” with a son, and, eighteen months later, a daughter.
Anyway, I love love love TWW, the Deebs, and all of you guys. Bring on the tangents and the Turkish coffee. But please lay off the cucumbers, because they are a fruit blessed by heaven and sent to us to make sweet delicious joy in my belly.
And if you don’t think so, you might want to question your Christianity. 😉
StacieMao wrote:
SHAME ON HER! That really makes me MAD! You can tell her I said so.
Welcome to TWW! I am grateful that you discovered the real reason for your miscarriages and that you have been blessed with two wonderful children.
Please chime in from time to time because we'd love to hear your perspective on the topics being discussed.
StacieMao wrote:
Great to hear from you, but I’m a bit confused… how is being stabbed with a cucumber a good thing?
Hmm… I may have been sailing a bit close to the wind there…
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Seriously though, the end of your story is really good.
@ Nick Bulbeck: Agreed!
@ StacieMao:
I think that the person who told you you were cursed may have been cursed with a big mouth and a little brain.
An Attorney wrote:
Right? At that moment…I was done. I grew up baptist and was pretty into the whole patriarchy scene. But when she said that, the scales fell from my eyes and I was done listening uncritically. The irony is that my husband and I have a much happier marriage now than we did while I was pushing him toward spiritual leadership. He married an honest, forthright woman, and apparently the most submissive thing I could do for him was to STOP with the submitting already and tell him what I thought.
@Nick…you are awesome.
Hey, D&D — thanks for this post and for the guidelines. Good stuff!