"I don't like to be labeled as lonely just because I am alone." – Delta Burke link
We are finally getting around to posting the personal stories on singleness that we received from our readers. We will post all of the ones that have been sent in one form or another. We are sorry for the delay. There is just too much going on in the evangelical world. Both Deb and I have developed a case of blogging ADD. Memo to Deb: Remember when you said that we wouldn't have enough to write about?????
If anyone else has a story they would like to share, try to get it to us by the end of the week. We will keep posting the stories until they are all covered. We will post Thursday and Friday and may post on the weekend and next Tuesday in order to get them all posted. Every single story has something important to share. We have done some minimal editing and formatting in order for them to be clear on our blog format. Also, if we were not sure if the authors wanted us to reveal their names, we did not include them. However, we can add them if you contact us.
Note to the evangelical church: Pay attention! We are missing out on the gifts and talents of many wonderful people because we have become fixated on marriage as the end goal for all people. We need to be focused, instead, on the gifts and talents of all believers, regardless of marital state. We are all impoverished when we sideline and ignore those who are single.
Seeking Community by AA
I have always been active in the church and in the singles departments and other singles groups. In college, there wasn’t any problem because we were mostly single.
I was looking forward to playing the field in grad school, because I left a small Baptist school (Georgetown College) for a very large school (UNC at Chapel Hill). But, to my great surprise, the best of the Christian men were taken. Never did figure that one out, nor how a married man could be active at church and work on his PhD at the same time. I couldn’t manage that very well. During that time, I started to realize that my two loves weren’t really compatible with each other in the romance department. They are chemistry and the church (I am using church to include God and Jesus. It just seems less threatening that way.) I dated some Christian men, and that was one of the important things I was looking for. But, they seemed to be attracted to me because of my strength and I wanted an equal or someone that would hold me up when I was weak.
Then, I got out into the work world, and discovered how singles were treated by normal Baptist churches. We tended to have our own departments, taught not by successful single men and women, but by couples close to our own age. A number of men just came through the groups, looking for women. Often, the socials seemed something closer to meat markets than anything else. There was subtle competition among the women. Knowing my love for the church, I dated some seminary students, only to break it off. (It is really too much to ask for a man that you are dating to try the dish you took to a pot luck at the church? That was just a sign of his rigidity, which I didn’t care for.)
Then, my career took me to Southern California, where I would have never gone on my own, but when you are unemployed and have a chance for a 3 month temporary job, you take it. But, the Baptist churches were just the same. Couples leading singles classes, meat market socials, etc. I didn’t date much if any because I tended to be the woman never chosen. I suspect that chemistry scared the Christian men away, and my church going any that I met at work. One time, when I was looking for a new church, since I had just moved to the area, I visited this large church. They actually had several singles groups. I visited only once. During the discussion (I might have had to introduce myself, and when I did so I mentioned where I worked.) That got a loud negative comment, from one of the guys and then my Southern accent was made fun of. No one slapped the offenders down, verbally or otherwise, so you can imagine how I felt.
I did all the right things, praying, reading all the depressing books about singleness. Most of them say, “Once I stopped looking, God gave me a husband.” I tried all of that.
A little later, I got involved with Wycliffe Bible Translators as a prayer partner, and took a spiritual gifts test. To my surprise, one of mine seemed to be celibacy. (It was a surprise that it was even part of that test, because others aimed at the Baptist, evangelical branch of Christianity don’t.)
I explored the possibility on my own and felt comfortable with the idea. One time, I mentioned that I might be called to be single to a woman whom I considered mature in our faith. Her immediate reaction was, “Until you meet the right man.” My unspoken response was, “I have, it’s Jesus”. That was probably typical among the Baptists.
My spiritual journey brought me to Catholicism. My singleness is accepted more, but have sometimes had to answer the question, “Are you a nun?” But the single groups are the same meat markets, or non-existent. (All I want is to find a group to do things with, like museums, craft shows, movies etc.). The lack of connection to families is still absent, nor are there many people that take in strays like me. My availability is still being taken advantage of. My most recent example is that I am normally supposed to be an Eucharistic Minister for a month every 3 months; recently I only missed one Sunday of my month,(November), was active every Sunday in December, including Christmas day, and so far two Sundays of January.
Would I change things? No. However, a community would be awfully nice. And for younger women on a similar path, some single women role models who were not foreign missionaries, like Lottie Moon would be helpful.
Singles Groups Are Like Kids' Sunday School Classes With Bigger Chairs- Juniper
Being single, especially an older single person in the church is (to put it mildly) not fun. Having found Jesus as the age of 35 and having now spent 11 years in assorted churches, I can genuinely say that most churches would be just as happy to have no single people. I found that there’s not a lot of space for someone who just does not want to get married.
There are plenty of sermons, programs, etc., talking about getting married, problems in marriage, marriage and kids, but very little about living life solo. The churches I’ve attended didn’t have a lot of space to just be a single person serving the church. They know you’re there, but don’t really see you. Most things are geared towards couples and families. I used to just love when the inevitable marriage conferences came around and the singles in the church would be encouraged to go because “you’ll need it if you get married.”
Singles groups feel like kids Sunday School with bigger chairs. I never found a lot of substance being taught. I don’t imagine many churches would say so, but as a single person you can start to wonder if the church really sees you as a full person. I suspect it may be worse if you're an older man than it is for me as a woman. Also, if you want to be a minister and get credentialed, there aren't many pastorates open to a single person whether old or young. And if you're a woman? Piffle.
That’s my rant. I’m working on a graduate degree in religion and I’m hoping to be able to teach someday, but it may be at my local coffeehouse with whoever happens to be there because it is unlikely to ever happen at a church.
I Hate It
Overlooked, left out, abandoned, forgotten, ignored, rejected, exclusion, avoided, judged and HAVING NO VOICE!!!!!!! Even when you use your voice, no one listens so, you are NOT HEARD!!!!!
Often judged with "They're gay" or "Something must be wrong with them" comments as to why we are still single!!!
I don't want to walk around telling everyone or justifying things. But I sometimes do and I'm going to proceed to do that here. I was the victim of childhood sexual abuse and an alcoholic father. The guy that I was going to marry(we talked about it all the time) after college cheated on me with a good friend at undergrad school! I then said "Forget it" regarding the marriage/guy thing. I went to grad school and wouldn't date because the program was significantly hard. Then, I focused on career and dated for about 3 years. Suddenly, I had major neck injury/surgery followed cancer surgery. I've had a crazy time frame here of not being able to date at all!!! So, when people judge me without know my story OR just simply, knowing ME, it hurts!!!
Maybe this is more pain and anger than you wanted for your singles blog, but it is definitely where I am at right now!!!! I HATE IT!!!!!!!
Steven Scott's Series on Singleness at his blog From the Pew
Here is one of the posts and this is the link to all four posts.
The Selfishness of Singleness
People who put off marriage and having children mostly do so out of selfishness. They want to satisfy their own desires for a while instead of getting to the work that the Lord would have us do. And nothing, I mean nothing, will cure this selfishness like a spouse and some kids. Diapers, emergency room visits, bedwetting sheet changes in the middle of the night will show you just how selfish you were. Witnesses testified of this fact before I was married, and personal experience ratifies it.
Uhhhh…yeahokaywhatever.
This is a sentiment possessed to some degree by more than a handful of Christians I have known. Recently I had lunch with an old friend – single friend – of mine who has reached a point in his life where he's kind of tired of hearing these things. He's decided that between he and God that he's content being single, and in fact isn't sure he wants to get married. He has nephews and nieces to love, and has no problem loving them, but marriage and kids of his own just isn't on the wishlist.
He also noted something I had not considered before. Yes, I knew some people probably fell into this temptation, but in isolated cases that I never thought could be widespread. But people can be just as selfish in wanting and having children as they can in being single. Consider the pressure in conservative Christian circles. Being known as a bible family with lots of kids can be a temptation. The little pink house with a white picket fence and 2.3 kids too.
I know families with lots of kids who have made things work out quite well, and families that have gone through hell with just one. Mrs. Scott and I were talking about this today – in light of our own family trials – and have both come to realize that there are people who are made to handle certain family situations and some that are not. Let's let each one work out their own life before God. May God give them wisdom in doing so and us wisdom enough to know that God is giving them wisdom that doesn't need our superior attitude. Am I being a bit preachy here? Yeah, why not?
Lydia's Corner:1 Chronicles 7:1-8:40 Acts 27:1-20 Psalm 7:1-17 Proverbs 18:22
Seeking Community, I would have walked out as soon as they made fun of my Southern accent.
Thanks for sharing your stories everyone. Reading them encourages many of us here to make sure we treat single people with the same kindness that we attempt to treated married people with. It helps us to remember to invite them to Thanksgiving dinner or to other events that are generally just for family.
Yes, the honesty is a good thing. It just doesn’t happen at this level very often. To the degree that we are empathetic morons, it is very helpful.
I was married many years ago, but have been divorced so long no one remembers me as a married. My lifelong friends, the couples I was in a Bible study with 20 years ago, have never invited me to join them since the divorce, even though I have asked three times to be included.
I left and found a new church. It’s nice to be part of a church that doesn’t discriminate by marital status quite as much. However, my real fellowship comes via the many devout Christians in my workplace. We meet and pray for each other on a regular basis. I’m very fortunate.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I too hope it helps the Church take notice (pointing fingers at self) of a large portion of believers, who have been neglected, segregated from the body.
I’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating again, but I am treated with more respect and my ideas are listened to and evaluated better by my amoral employer than by any church. That’s because my amoral employer doesn’t care about my marital status, just my ability to do the work. In a church, I’d be slotted off to some group or have married women think I’m trying to steal their husbands. (Look, if he’d leave you for me, then he’s quite capable of doing the same thing to me. People don’t think very hard.)
The church isn’t going to get over this problem until it ditches the familyolatry, which I don’t see happening anytime soon. (If anything, I see people doubling down.)
Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
SWD — Yes, we go to church to be marginalized! What a treat! /sarcasm.
A note to all the paranoid wives: you may think your hubby is still hot, but beolieve me no single woman wants to take on a guy who will pay child support for 5 kids and alimony.
As a single, I have decided that for every time I am asked the question in shock, horror, dismay, “Girl, are you still single?” I’m going to respond in just as much shock, horror, and dismay, and I may throw in a little pity – “Are you still married?” I am too through with American evangelical family idolatry. Family is wonderful and so very important to me, but I am sick of it being used as a metric to judge our “godliness” or worth.
“But people can be just as selfish in wanting and having children as they can in being single.”
Not only by wanting status and a picket fence, either. They can get married because they want to sleep with a hot guy/girl, and they can have kids because they want a cute baby to play with. This is perfectly illustrated by something I once heard at a pet store. There were two teenage girls oohing and aahing over the baby animals. Here’s how the conversation went:
Girl #1: “They’re soooooo cuuuuuute!!!!!”
Girl #2: “Yeah, but then they grow up.”
Takeaway: Puppies are cute and fun. Actually raising said puppy into a dog is a boring slog. And as evidenced by the huge numbers of abandoned pets, clearly the boring slog doesn’t magically cure selfishness. (Note: I know many people get rid of pets for monetary reasons. I’m only referring to callously abandoned pets.)
When churches cater only to married people and ignore single people, they are ignoring about 50% of the population. As my new 80 year old friend Grandma Jane told, me there is no place for single people in the church. It does not matter if you are a widow, divorced, or never married. I am so done with church.
Teri Anne wrote:
There is also “no place in the church” for married people whose spouse does not attend church with them. Well, that is not quite accurate. There is a place, but it is awful. It is the attitude that everyone can be example, and you just happen to be a bad example.
But the good news is that I have found a church/denomination that tries hard to be inclusive of people in this and other areas of life. I left the Baptists and became a Methodist. I understand the commenter who said she became a Catholic. Good for you. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to take your feet and your wallet and move on.
I’ve posted this elsewhere on TWW, but there’s a paper on singles and the church by W. Bradford Wilcox (National Marriage Project, a pro-marriage research organization at University of Virginia).
Normally NMP is more sanguine. This paper surprised me. Wilcox examines the rapid decline in the Evangelical Church. He points to the country club nature of Evangelicalism: A man takes his family to church to prove to his neighbors he has arrived at a level of respectability.
If you don’t have time to read the entire paper, just read pp. 8-11 and 19-20.
No Money, No Honey, No Church
http://www.virginia.edu/sociology/publications/Wilcox_Religion_WorkingPaper.pdf
The high speed decline in the white Evangelical church is unique. The Black and Hispanic Churches aren’t experiencing the same decline, in fact, they are rock solid. On the last page, Wilcox doesn’t hold out much of optimism about the future of the white Evangelical church.
Nancy wrote:
Nancy — At my old church it was a mixed bag: Some “spiritually single” women were still on their high horse because at least they were married. Others felt guilty and slipped in the edges of the church.
I agree that there’s a denominational difference. Liturgical churches in general, and Methodists, some Lutherans, and Catholics specifically, are warmer and don’t treat singles, divorced, and widows as second class citizens.
stuck record alert
In New Testament times, “the Church” in Corinth, Ephesus, Stirling, Los Angeles, Paris, wherever, meant all the believers in that city. That was as big a challenge then as it would be today (were we ever to take it on). There were huge social, economic, racial and other differences between men/women, Jews/Gentiles, slaves/citizens, rich/poor, and these went back generations and were deeply embedded in the culture of the day. To have a group of such people that were all one in Christ took something dramatic and transformative; mere doctrine or “vision” couldn’t do it. But they accepted nothing less. Any ambitious individual trying to build his own “church” such that he could pick and choose who would join, and throw out those who weren’t on mission, would rightly be exposed as divisive and factional, and would himself be expelled from the company of believers until he repented.
The “stuck record” thing – i.e. I’m always going on about it – is that this is no longer true. The believers in any given locality are split into many, isolated “churches” and these units are, inevitably, highly mono-cultural. Some, probably many, perhaps most, “churches” were not founded around the Good News (which would truly make space for any follower of Jesus) but around some natural human preference or other. Over time, that natural preference becomes accepted in each isolated community as being the norm for anyone who wants to serve God. The practical upshot is that few “churches” have much room for anyone who doesn’t fit the mould. And this is because the two-dimensional copy of the Gospel that they work from has no real power and is not really the Gospel.
So when I pray for God to move in our nation (Scotland, to be parochial), I’m praying that believers would learn how to build true spiritual unity with other believers. Or that the reality of being under one Head would remove the need to try and fit under one roof.
I married when I was 29 and my husband was 33. While that is younger than many of those commenting here, it was “old” for both of us. We both always knew we wanted to be married, but it took us a long time to find each other. Our younger siblings all married before us (mostly very young) and most had children before we were married. We’ve now been married sixteen years.
I always thought when I got married, I would fit in better at church. But I didn’t because all the newly married couples were younger than us and all the married people our own age had children so we didn’t relate. We didn’t fit in.
I always thought when I had a child, I would fit in better at church. But I didn’t because we were older parents (39 and 43) and all the couples with little children were much younger. In fact, in more than one church there were events set up for people in their 20’s and 30’s (with younger children) so they could all get to know each other and we didn’t fit the parameters. So even though we were finally parents, we still didn’t fit in.
Now we have a six and a half year old and most of our peers are sending their children off to college or marrying them off. We still don’t fit in.
Throw in being in a happy (basically) egalitarian marriage with a strong woman and we still don’t fit in.
I’m not trying to minimize the pain suffered by those who are single. I struggled A LOT with being single. But even marriage and children does not guarantee fitting in. In fact, I fit in better as a single in my 20’s because I was in a pretty healthy, friendly church. There were moments I did feel excluded, but overall I was very involved and an integral part of what was happening. I’ve never felt that way since I was married.
I honestly think it has more to do with what Nick said just above.
nmgirl wrote:
Funny comment of the day!
Lori wrote:
You must do this! Then, let us know what they say. Divorce rates in the church are high so it is a logical comeback!
Hester wrote:
This is a fascinating comment. I think you have hit the nail on the head. It all looks good on the outside but it is hard work. This new weirdness in which pastors talk about their “hot wives” only contributes to this problem.
@ Teri Anne: I am using your comment in today’s post. I am also going to title the post Singles: I Am So Done With Church.
Thank you.
Nancy wrote:
I do not blame you one bit. Besides, I am impressed with many of the Methodists churches in my area. Not only do they have good preaching they do so much like prison ministry, shelters, etc.
I believe that there are more and more evangelicals deserting the typical evangelical churches and are finding refuge in some of the mainline churches along with the RCC and Orthodox traditions. One does not have to be a member of some “authoritarian” church which thinks they are God’s gift to the planet and abuse people to prove that they are in charge.
@ Janey: I shall add this link to today’s post. Thank you.
@ Nick Bulbeck: I always knew you were smart, Nick. Awesome comment.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Nick, you are so right, but good luck in getting anything done about it.
It has been my observation that lots of people get marginalized by the church. For example: the un/underemployed, those with too little money, the too smart, those with physical problems, those who have a child in trouble, the infertile and the “too fertile,” the teacher who teaches in public school rather than christian school, those who take the faith too seriously, those who prefer truth to pretense, working moms and stay-at-home dads, men and women in non-gender-traditional job roles, the adult living at home with parents for financial reasons, and here in the south heaven help you if you are from New Jersey. No doubt there are lots more; these just come to mind.
At the same time, in my professional life I saw a lot of behind the scenes pain and suffering in a lot of people’s lives, and the truth is that the better-than-thou folks are pretending. The percentage of people who actually have the lives they pretend to have is quite low. We are all damaged and sinning and suffering one way or the other. Turning on each other like a pack of cannabalistic hyenas is the last thing we need to be doing.
Just saying.
dee wrote:
And I’ve noticed that CELEBRITY Megachurch Pastors often DO have Alpha-female “looker” wives. If they weren’t preachers, we’d call them “Trophy Wives straight out of a centerfold”. And the Alpha Male parades his Alpha Female Trophy (Humbly, of course) before all the Beta to Omega males, showing them just what they’re missing, Haw Haw Haw.
A lot of us singles would like to marry, but significant barriers have been placed in front of us. And it tends to drain one’s desire to serve in the church (if there was ever a desire to serve in the first place).
Sometimes, those barriers gestate from an early age. Let me recount some of my experiences.
For various reasons, I developed a lack of interest in socializing with Sunday school or elementary school classmates (a few were the same), and wanted to be by myself. Same for my older and younger brothers (I’m a middle child), and we did our own thing. I just wasn’t comfortable eating food not prepared by my mother, and a dog phobia reduced the list of homes I’d go to for birthday parties, etc. I think being home-schooled for 6 years only magnified the problem and led to greater isolation.
So attending a public high school all four years was, looking back, quite a culture shock. And one thing about it has haunted me for many years. Ironically, it was the thing to which I actually looked forward. To put it simply, the “thing” was a girl. Not just any girl. She was the one on whom ALL BOYS have a huge crush. The one that is cute as a button, built “perfect” from head to toe and nice to everyone. She’s likely aware of her own magnetism, but doesn’t let it get to her head. I now had a little motivation to come out of my shell of social infancy.
We were in a few classes together. I was much too shy to approach her even to say “hi.” Instead, she’d do that for me, even going out of her way to do so on at least one occasion. I was able to talk to her a little our senior year. I found out she’d attended church in the past, but quit (probably because her family did so, not sure of the details). So based on my upbringing, she was off limits (not that I ever had a chance to be anything more than a “friend”).
When I graduated from high school, I knew I wouldn’t see this girl much afterward. This may have affected me the winter prior to graduation. I couldn’t eat for much of the day. But when I learned she would attend the same local junior college, my appetite returned. I did in fact see her a few times at the local junior college. By then, however, other interests intensified. Another year passed when I realized how long it had been since I’d seen this girl. I’d have a passing thought of her from time to time, but memories of her had begun to fade. Looking back, this was for the best.
Then things began to get weird. About four years after last seeing her, one of my wisdom teeth needed to be pulled. One dental assistant reminded me of my old high school crush. No, it wasn’t her, but I did a double take when she smiled at me. This got me thinking about the girl from H. S. again. But when I received an invitation for an informal five-year get-together, I thought, “Here’s an opportunity to find out how she’s doing.” I passed it up, though. High school was not the happiest time in my life, and I was into other things. So I didn’t go.
But for some strange reason for which I cannot fathom to this day, God must have thought it was a good idea to have us happen meet at a local retail store on Christmas Eve six months later. We chatted a little, she asked me how I was doing. I was on Cloud 9 that a now beautiful woman was giving me the time of day. The funniest thing was she was also employed as a dental assistant! That she mentioned a boyfriend only hit me later. A lot of things hit me later, actually within a few hours.
I was devastated. The huge crush I had, hidden for five years, returned with fury, and I longed for a girl like her. Yet, I was working in a menial job, living at home, and never had a girlfriend. I didn’t understand what was happening to me. It was surreal. I asked God to help, multiple times a day, for days, weeks, months. “Take away this emptiness, this incredible loneliness!” Subsequently, I was exposed to the most discontented co-workers and their attitudes. My maternal grandmother passed away. Current events were depressing as well.
Incidentally, I had to have another wisdom tooth pulled, and saw the same dental assistant from a couple of years earlier. Seeing her a second time, she actually looked nothing like my high school crush.
Not quite two years after that fateful Christmas Eve, I discovered a Christian ministry for singles that inflicted doubt in my mind that God would provide me a wife. It had an idolatrous promotion of the “Gift of Singleness.” Embrace it. Thank God for it. Don’t waste it. Puke!!!!! Advice way too late for someone longing for their other half.
About this time, I got a better-paying job, then lost it in less-than-ideal circumstances. After more than four years had passed since our “happen so” meeting, still no answers from God. I was still alone, longing for someone I couldn’t have. I’d been unemployed for a year when I was contacted about helping to plan for my ten-year H. S. reunion. A chance to see this girl again! She wasn’t part of the meeting, but when those of us who did show up were assigned to find contact information for classmates whose last names begin with (fill in the blank), guess who was on my list? Just to summarize, I only found out four months early what I would’ve found out anyway: My H. S. crush was getting married a month before the reunion (I never contacted her, just got her information from one of her friends, who provided details). I would not be going.
How vain. How stupid. By this time, I’d begun meeting with a few friends with whom I shared a hobby. I looked forward to our weekly get-togethers. Unfortunately, just guys. I had also changed to a larger church in hopes of meeting young women that I could get to know. I became closer to a Sunday school class when we met for lunch after church each Sunday. Men and women about my age. It made me feel more confident and allowed me to fit in for the first time in my life (at age 30). a of us met for a Bible Study once a week. I even joined a class taught by the director of young adult ministries that would help us serve better in the church. I quickly began to notice one young woman that seemed to be just what I wanted (cute, athletic, shared the same worldview, etc.), but she wanted nothing to do with me. (she’s since moved away and married as well).
The Bible says God “KNOWS what is best.” My concern is whether He actually DOES what is best. Not while I’m on earth, I guess. Our Sunday school teacher changed, and the class dwindled to a point at which it was disbanded (at a large church, go figure). In time, the class pretty much went their separate ways, different churches, moved away, etc. A few years later, the original group of guys I liked to hang out with either moved away (like one closest to my age, beliefs) or died. I still get together with some guys who have since joined us, but it isn’t the same anymore. I have a best friend, but either his working hours or his recent marriage leaves him with little time to hang out.
It has now been nearly 15 years since that fateful Christmas Eve meeting with my high school crush. Friends come and go, but a good spouse would stick with me. A spouse is something I need, but I don’t ever expect to have it. It just isn’t in God’s plan for me. Any attempts to find a mate (online, church-sponsored events) end in failure.
So I expect to be alone the rest of my life. Among the consequences, I still have no desire to serve in the church in any capacity.
David
Thank you for sharing your heartfelt story with us.
Teri Anne said: “When churches cater only to married people and ignore single people, they are ignoring about 50% of the population. As my new 80 year old friend Grandma Jane told, me there is no place for single people in the church. It does not matter if you are a widow, divorced, or never married. I am so done with church.”
Yes, when I still went to church one of the sermons once again was on marriage and I looked around the sanctuary and thought, “Probably half of the people here aren’t married.” Church is good for those they consider pre-marrieds and marrieds with children.
And here’s a possible future subject: How churches are disregarding the elderly by making so much of marriage and family life and by trying to fit in with current secular trends.
Shannon H. wrote:
Awesome idea.
David wrote:
Taught by Alpha Christians who all married at 18.
David wrote:
I have discovered when someone gets married, they sooner or later cut all contact with singles. Marrieds only hang out with other Marrieds, and singles find themselves on the outside looking in. This happened with all my college friends (the Cal Poly Gang) as wedding bells rang one by one for all except me.
And in too many churches, Marrieds are the only ones allowed to sit at the grown-ups table with the other Married grown-ups.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Doesn’t have to be a mega church either. Alpha males ..um pastors, have to start in the business…um ministry, somewhere.
Janey wrote:
But are they even on the radar of White Evangelicals?
In January 2009, the original Internet Monk got 15 minutes of fame for his online essay “The Coming Evangelical Collapse”:
Part 1: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-prediction-the-coming-evangelical-collapse-1
Part 2: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-prediction-the-coming-evangelical-collapse-1
Part 3: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-coming-evangelical-collapse-3-good-or-bad
If I ever hope to marry, I will have to disregard most every thing I was ever taught by my Christian mother, by preachers, Christian dating literature, and even a few Bible verses.
I’ve already chucked out the “be married only to another believer” idea.
Which is not a realistic teaching anyway, since Christian females out-number the males, or so I’ve read. (Or at least the single males do not go to church, making it hard for a female to meet a male.)
I’m only marginally a Christian these days anyhow, so maybe that does not matter.
Me being only a tiny bit Christian these days (since being a very genuine, conservative believer since childhood) is due in part precisely to how crummy Christians treat singles and singleness.
I don’t think I’m the only single who’s walking away from the faith (or church membership), based on testimonies of other older singles I’ve seen on other blogs and in books about Christian singles.
So it would behoove Christians to take this topic a bit more seriously than they do, stop scolding singles for being upset that churches are so marriage-centric, or are anti-singles or anti-singlehood.
Many Christians are double-minded about the topic of marriage, but they can’t seem to see it.
Christians say they are upset that Christians are not marrying any more (or are worried about sky rocketing divorce figures and so on), but then, if you say you want to get married yourself, the same Christians will tell you to “be content where you are” (with a billion other cliches spat out at you), and, IMO, the most insulting thing they say, that you have “made marriage into an idol.”
Remember, these are the people telling singles, “Why don’t you get married?? Marriage is God’s plan, singleness is stupid.” When we say, we know, we want to get married,” they say, “Jesus is all you need! Stop idolizing marriage.”
They also assume marriage is easy, that all a single woman has to do is snap her fingers and make a husband appear at her side.
That is so wrong. It requires single men even exist to start with (there don’t appear to be any), and secondly, just because they man is single does not mean there is chemistry and that he wants to date you just because you are a single female.
Christian married couples don’t seem to get any of this, like once they get married, their brains forget how hard it is to find a partner.
My disclaimer: I do not look to or expect a man to make me happy or give me identity.
I was engaged for several years to a guy.
I was quite unhappy with him.
So yes, I already realize that a romantic relationship is not all rainbows and bliss.
Just as there are two or three marrieds who hit every singles-related thread to chide us singles that “church is not about you!” (), there are one or two singles who like to chide other singles that you “need to stop looking to marriage to make you happy. Just live your life as-is and enjoy.”
I don’t expect marriage to “make me happy.”
I am living my life and trying to enjoy it.
I have times when I’m fine and dandy being single (then there are times when I’d like to be married).
My problem is not with singleness itself, or with my own singleness, but that so many churches and conservative Christian culture has made marriage into an idol, and they exclude, or else mistreat, everyone who has not married by age 30ish and had a child or two.
Actual Coming Evangelical Collapse Part 2 link:
http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-coming-evangelical-collapse-2-what-will-be-left
Lin wrote:
Like inheriting the church from Daddy?
That’s becoming more and more common with these big 501c3s.
I initially just skimmed the top half of the OP, and just now see this part:
“The Selfishness of Singleness”
Where the guy wrote, “People who put off marriage and having children mostly do so out of selfishness.”
No they don’t! What a jerky nimrod.
Many, many unmarried Christian women (and some Christian men I’ve met online) very much hoped to marry by mid 20s, or in their 30s, but they simply never met the right person!
I did not even get my first boyfriend until I was in my late 20s. I only got one marriage proposal my whole life so far.
I did the typical junk Christians tell you to do if you want marriage:
1. Pray and ask God for spouse
2. Wait on God’s timing / God’s best
3. Attend church
4. “put the Lord first”
5. “serve in the church”
6. Try a dating site
-etc and so forth, all the other crud you hear. I did it all and still find myself single.
These Christians that keep assuming the over 30/35 age group that stays single because they chose to be are full of it. The really are.
Their views are insulting, condescending, and painful to those that really did expect to be married, but who never were.
Other false assumptions that are heaped on single females:
1. you must be ugly and fat so wear make up and lose the weight!
(I’m thin and look fine as I am, thank you)
2. you chased career and put marriage on the back burner of life
(this may be true of some Non Christian females, but not the Christian women I know of)
3. You got one billion marriage proposals by the time you were 30, too bad you turned them all down
(wrong assumption. I got ONE proposal, I accepted, but the relationship didn’t work out)
As per #3, I see a lot of that by other single females online.
A lot of them said they didn’t get their first boyfriend til their late 20s, and some say they are 30 and have not ever gone on a single date.
Christian women are not being chased by hordes of eligible single males, they are not even so much as getting any dates at all, but some of the conservative Christian leaders and spokespersons assume prolonged singleness is the fault of women, who want career more than marriage.
Some of them chew out the males and say “all you guys do is play on your X box all day long.”
I think there are bigger factors at work, it’s a cultural shift.
By the way, it’s a stereotype that married people are more mature or holy than singles.
Being married does not automatically bestow maturity, purity, or sanctification on a person.
I’ve seen too many married people who sleep around on their spouse, or one spouse or the other goes out drinking and carousing each night, leaving the other at home to raise the kids or take care of domestic duties.
The funny thing is, such marital problem stories are common on Christian television programs.
These Christian TV shows will interview a Christian married couple where the husband admits to having a dirty web site addiction, the wife finds out, they almost split up, but then Jesus heals their marriage.
Christian magazines forever print stories about dirty site addictions among married Christian men.
But then, there’s this stereotype in Christendom that the Christian singles are the Texually (put the letter S on the front of that) sinful ones, that all the singles are out there “doing it” all over the place, the single women are supposedly preying on married men, or singles are using hookers, going to nightclubs and picking up partners.
Here I am a virgin into my 40s and have never once hit on a married guy (and would not do so), but I’m supposed to be a notorious, Tex- hungry Jezebel. 🙄
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Actually, the proprietors were an never-married, middle-aged woman and a man who apparently went through a messy divorce. You may know what site I’m talking about. Hint, “Purposeful” is part of the name.
This post is about singleness, but there’s an underlying problem with the thinking of the modern church that leads to these problems. Rather than take each Christian in the complexity in which God made them and in the life situations we find them, we often tend to want to label, to categorize, to compartmentalize, to reduce to common denominators. This is why there are so many who “don’t fit in.”
What is difficult to understand for many people is that when we have such rigid ideals on subjects such as marriage and family – and teach them as doctrine – is that there are numerous unintended consequences as a result. And since we are the ones who have “right beliefs,” those consequences simply cannot be “our” fault, but rather the fault of those upon whom the consequences fall.
It is obvious that much has to do with dealing with people as “single” rather than dealing with people as people.
At my former FIC courtship only church (plus the church they planted) despite the ideal being married by 20 or so, there have only been 4 marriages. The first was to a man in his thirties who imported a bride from the Philippines. He didn’t want to court any of those evil “feminist” women. He thought he had some leads on women to court elsewhere, including one in his home state, but once their dads discovered he lost his virginity before becoming a Christian, they told him to go away. Never mind how long he had stayed celibate since then. In the end, he got betrothed to a woman from an online dating site. He promised to marry her, no matter what, before he actually met her in person.
After this man’s “success,” a man living in the area temporarily with his brother did the same thing.
Wedding number three was a couple in their early twenties that a few families had to conspire to get together. Theese other people thought they’d be a good match, but since dating wasn’t allowed, it took a lot of work to get the young man to ask the woman’s dad for permission to court. The dad approved and gave him two months to either propose or get lost! Oh, and all “dates” were chaperoned, of course. Despite the dad’s overbearing nature, although I don’t know either person well, I think they were actually attracted to each other.
Wedding number four was a young man who married his college girlfriend. He is probably the only one who would be married without scheming on the part of several families or importing a bride.
The oldest of the kids raised in this patriarchal environment (all their parents were raised in more normal environments) is now about 29. Considering all the stories of singleness discussed here, by people without legalistic parents, I really think most of the young women will still be single in their thirties. The parents are so terrified of pre-marital sex (which is because of that evil dating, in their view) that their kids are going to end up single much long than the average American. The rest, especially the women, will be pushed into marriages under the assumption that being attracted to each other is worldly and unimportant.
Wait, there is one non-couple who has been attracted to each other for years but kept apart by the parents. They will probably be allowed court once the young man gets a job. He’s really arrogrant, however, and an arrogant young man raised to be the kong of his house is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.
Oh, I just remembered wedding number 5. The young woman got pregnant and they were married a week later, probably to try to hide the pre-marital sex. So much for not dating leading to “purity.”
@ Janey:
I read the pages of that article you recommended. (If you hadn’t mentioned specific pages, I wouldn’t have bothered since it was so long.)
The part I read sounded like it boiled down to:
1. Non-college educated people rarely consider fornication wrong and don’t find marriage very important anymore. Since churches are generally against fornication and intentional having babies out of wedlock, they don’t want to go.
2. Churches feel like country clubs to them because of the big gap in income levels. (Of course, the big gap in income levels is partly because of gaps in education levels also, people with higher levels of education have much lower divorce rates, and probably lower rates of babies out of wedlock.)
There is a lot of rebellion against this movement going on among the children of people of this persuasion.
It will have a drastically smaller subset of followers in the generation that is coming out of it at this moment.
Steve Scott wrote:
Precisely. We also must not deal with people as elderly rather than dealing with people as people.
There is no such thing as too much Mark Driscoll. 🙄
Mark Driscoll Announces Plans to Launch Mars Hill Church Phoenix
Daisy wrote:
Another “franchise” with the giant Telescreen where the pulpit would be?
@ HoppyTheToad:
Something everybody should know:
No matter what the historical use, the word “Fornication” is now used in Christianese and ONLY in Christianese.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Yeah, I agree. However, I thought using “fornication” was less likely to land my comment in moderation. I had one stuck there a few days ago for unknown reasons.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
“Another “franchise” with the giant Telescreen where the pulpit would be?”
++++++++++++++++++++
complete with the official mascot beamed in
@ dee:
Thankyou for your kind words, Dee. “Smart” is not everybody’s cup of tea (though, of course, nothing is everybody’s cup of tea)…
HoppyTheToad wrote:
Off the blog, I use another F-word for it. Sometimes it takes blunt & crude to make the point with the appropriate impact.
This is off topic for this thread, but it reminds me of some of the topics that get discussed here on occasion:
Coach Fired After Attending Wrong Church In Alabama
Not a big fan of the “singleness is selfish” idea. I’m 24, which is still quite young, but have never had a boyfriend or even been on a date. I’m indifferent to it, to be honest. When people ask me why I’ve always been single I just shrug and say “That’s the way the cards have fallen so far.” The reason for my indifference? I trust God with my relationship status. Yes I’d like to get married and bear/adopt some children in the future but I strongly believe he has me on a different path right now. Maybe a man in my life would be a distraction at this point, I don’t know. I don’t want to be single forever and don’t expect to be, but I’m not fussed about the timing. God’s timing is perfect, after all. I’ll just walk the path I’m on right now, for now. Not because I want to do things “my way” but because I’m aware that sometimes God has plans for us outside of getting married! I’ll follow his plan for me whether it involves a spouse or not.