Welcome to a Gathering of EChurch@Wartburg
Here Is Our Order of Worship
If you are new to EChurch, please click on this link for an explanation
This is a prayer from the church father Irenaeus (died 202 C.E.) Link
"Give growing maturity to beginners,
O Father; give intelligence to the little ones;
Give aid to those who are running their course.
Give sorrow to the negligent; give fervor of spirit to the lukewarm.
Give to the mature a good end; for the sake of Christ Jesus our Lord.
Amen.”
The Lord's Prayer
Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.
Scripture Reading: Hebrews 12:16-17 (NASB Bible Gateway)
See to it . . . that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.
A Prayer for Discouragement Link
Heavenly Father, I know I am close to despair.
I feel so tempted to give up,
to withdraw from life and religion and let the world simply carry me along.
Everything seems so meaningless and nothing appeals to my better instincts.
Help me to remember that Jesus gave meaning to everything in the world.
Let me bank on that fact and get over this time of despair,
to really believe in the depths of my being that there is a reason for living.
Show me the reason for my life and tell me what I must do.
Bring home to me that I am never alone,
but that You are with me even in the depths of despair.
Remind me that no matter what I may endure now,
an unending joy awaits me in the future if I but cling tightly to You
and your Son Jesus in the unity of the Spirit.
Amen.
Benediction: Jude 1:24-25
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling
And to present you before his glorious presence without fault
And with great joy to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority,
Through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore!
Amen.
That’s a wonderful message.
When you hear all those messages from people about ‘forgive and forget’ towards unrealistic circumstances? It seems they don’t wish for others to acknowledge that their ‘blessings’ as the Pastor mention in this circumstance is gone. The forgive part you can work out with the Lord, but you aren’t responsible to restore their blessing to them as so many teach. What a huge burden has been lifted. The undoable, unrealistic burden is gone.
The hammer of the ‘forget’ part in their message is useless. Their consequences are to be lived, but their actions can be forgiven if they seek it from God. They can be restored in heaven, and its not up to those they have hurt to give them what they are not capable of giving (restoring their blessing)…because only Jesus can do that.
I realize that is NOT the direction Pastor Wade was aiming, but that is what I thinking during this time. All those people being weighted down by the ‘forget’ part they are not capable of rendering.
Hannah,
Excellent points! Rachelle and I picked up Paul Young (author of The Shack and Crossroads) at the airport and we discussed this very issue on the road to Enid. You will hear Paul speak next Sunday on E-Church at Wartburg, but I might also suggest that you tune in LIVE on Sunday evening at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time (6:00 p.m.) Central Time to hear Paul speak at a special evening service. We will be showing a clip from “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire” in introducing Paul (he was on the five years before he wrote The Shack) and Paul Young will tell the most incredible story involving the show and his son (he told me he’s never publicly shared the story before). In addition, I think you will pick up on some really great stuff about healthy relationships, forgiveness, etc… Though you have to register with an email at http://www.emmanuelenid.org to watch (click the WATCH LIVE button), we don’t use your email for any other purpose.
Wade
By the way, Hannah, the evening LIVE broadcast is tomorrow evening, April 14. I know you might not be able to view Paul’s talk, but one of the amazing things I love about my friend Paul is that he lives in the moment and treats every person he meets as an encounter arranged by God. Too many people focus on the crowds – Paul focuses on the individual. I find that people who are interested in the one make a far more powerful impact on crowds. You won’t be disappointed.
@ Hannah Thomas:
Thanks for that—so true!
Another aspect of “consequences” is that recipients suffer from the others’ wrongs. And sometimes their own blessings are taken away by the damage and aren’t returned.
It took me a long time to reconcile myself to that.
Thank you to both of you Wade and Patrice.
I have signed up, and now need to set a timer in my house so I can remember. With a house full of teenagers you tend to get distracted at times! (laughs)
I know the passage uses ‘blessings’, but can ‘gifts’ be lost too(because of bad decisions, etc.)? Just a thought. Maybe I shouldn’t even wonder about it because ‘gifts’ isn’t used here. But, unfortunately, I do wonder about it regardles of this passage. ie: Wondering if God will allow me to use the gifts He’s given me ever again, or if He has taken them away. Sure feels like the later right now.
Tammy Carter – I could be all wet here, but I do believe ‘gifts’ are permanent. I once wrote an example of my oldest, and her artistic skills. Her gift for viewing the world in her own special way can’t be taken away – even if people took away her material that she creates her on. That creative and artistic gift will always be there, because that gift was given to her by God.
I do think at times it seems our gift is restricted due to circumstances, etc. That doesn’t mean our gift has disappeared, because it is part of US! Using that gift for the Glory of God at times may indeed be seasonal at times. Other times it may seem to be. Our lifes are custom, because God made them that way.
Anyway, here is the article I wrote about it. I hope it helps. I offered some artwork she gave to me through the years to show growth, change, etc. People can take away her substant (pen, paper, canvas, etc), but her artistic skills will always be here.
http://www.eaandfaith.blogspot.com/2013/03/biblical-roles-could-cause-division.html
Wade,
I recently gave my hubby Crossroads for his birthday,, which I am now reading. 🙂
Looking forward to hearing Paul Young via your website. Thanks for the heads up!
The Shack is one of very few christian books I’ve been able to stomach over the last few years…I’m so glad not to hear it slammed here 🙂
Hannah, that makes sense with what you are describing. I didn’t say it in my comment or describe it well But, I was thinking more about spiritual gifts.
Tammy Carter wrote:
I think it was me that wasn’t clear Tammy. I have a tendency to do that!
Her gift of art isn’t a spiritual gift in that sense – true! I truly believe a gift – spiritual or not – is always with us. God doesn’t give us a gift, and then take it back later. Its always with us, but the application at times tends to change. That opportunity for you to use that spiritual gift maybe right around the corner, and heck God may have a completely different scene in mind for the use of that gift.
Wade, for me this message is your most powerful. I have known for some time that I did not want or desire to fully repent of my sins as much as I wanted to and because of that, have wondered if I was truly saved. You have answerd that for me. In fact, I am more repentant of my sins now because God has shown me just how awful sin is. I don’t think we can truly appreciate sin for what it is until we grow as God’s child.
Thank you Scooter’s mom. I think you will enjoy Paul Young next week as well.
thanks, Hannah. I sure hope so. It has been a very long season.
Hey guys, I went ahead and listened to Paul Young both am and pm at the link above and I want to really really stress how important it is for those who have been abused to listen to both but especially the evening talk.
In fact, he affirmed some things I have discovered myself that are very important in healing whether it is spiritual or physical abuse.
All I can say is that it meant so much to me.
Anon 1,
Thanks for taking the time to listen to both of Paul Young’s messages. I’m really hoping that Emmanuel Enid will upload both to Vimeo so we can feature them here.
Deb,
We will upload all three Paul Young videos and you can feature them whenever you desire. I would suggest you feature the evening service this Sunday, and then I will be gone in May for a week and you can feature his 11:00 a.m. service (my wife tells me this services was incredible) and in the future you could feature his 8:30 service. We do not tape the 9:30 service (unfortunately due to technical issues) or the REFUGE service. All four were different.
Pastor Wade,
Q: Did the Almighty at any time (in Old Testament history) include the Gentile nations in the covenant He made with the Abraham?
Thoughts:
God protected His covenant with Abraham until His Son, Jesus could began a New Covenant, with His own blood.
(It was most likely for that very reason that the Almighty rejected Esau.)
Fast forward…
It was Jesus’ sacrifice on the tree, that enables God to forgive the ‘Gentile’ nations , and draw them unto Himself; As Jesus prepared a way!
It was the rejection of the New Covenant that enabled Jesus to commission Paul’s mission to the Gentiles.
‘Gentiles’, as such have never lived underAbraham’s covenant with God. INHO
That covenant was not made with or for Gentiles; but with God’s chosen people Israel.
It wasn’t until later that Jesus through Paul the Apostle, offers the ‘rejected’ New Covenant, to all men.
*** This is the good news that we are hearing so much about!
And this makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant (Heb. 7:22).
You betcha!
Yet, why aren’t kind folk clambering ta get a piece of it?
Kirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk!
Jesus is offering Eternal Life, why would anyone ‘not’ want to partake of it?
hmmm…
Sopy
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P.S. I am sorry your sermon did not take your listeners back to Hebrews 7:22. Where the Apostle Paul said:
…so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.”
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Hebrews 7. Melchizedek’s Priesthood Like Christ’s
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.
Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest’s office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.
But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. And inasmuch as it was not without an oath (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,
“THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
‘YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER’”); so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.
*
It would appear that Esau was passed over even though first born, because of his unfitness for the fulfillment of the promise God made to Adam in the garden:
“…And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”
Two lines were thus preserved, that of faith, and that of blood.The Lord seeing fit to preserve both unto the coming of our Lord and the establishment of the New Covenant; which includes the entrance of the Gentile Nations through the ‘rejection’ of the New Covenant by the Jewish people, the wild vine now being grafted in…
The rejection of Esau by God –tragic to Esau, but render precious by the ‘Garden’ Promise, –rendering glorious entrance to the Gentile Nations in which, Pastor Wade, we find ourselves a part. Good news indeed!
Blessings!
Sopy
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I was at the 11:00 am service with Paul and I agree with Rachelle, it was incredible.
Beaker: I don’t think you will find a better Christian writer than Paul William Young. I got so much out of the Shack which was a book I had not heard of until it was given to us by a family friend following a tragedy our family was experiencing. I couldn’t put it down and the tears that flowed from us were so healing. No person or other words did that for us. I am looking forward to reading Crossway.
Hi Wade,
I so enjoyed this sermon and had many things clarified for me….I grew up in a household where “I’m sorry” was never enough, either you weren’t sorry enough or you didn’t say it the right way, or if you never had done the thing, you wouldn’t have had to say your sorry, etc etc…I have always doubted my own repentance and whether is was “good enough” to please God….thank you! I am going to listen again tomorrow….I am marking my calendar for next week for Paul Wm Young….I am a bit concerned….I never read The Shack because so many evangelicals put it down at the time, John McARthur, Tim Challies, etc….so I stayed away….I am interested only because Pastor WAde is endorsing him…..I thought he was an “emerging Church” type and was told to stay away from The Shack…but I till be listening this Sunday….
Deb
DebbieLynn:I’m not Wade, but I don’t think most evangelicals understand Paul Young. He writes in the context of a personal, deep, open, relationship with Christ, God. Most such as those who you have mentioned focus on the doctrine and outside works. Paul writes from the view(which I agree) that God loves us unconditionally. We are his children period. No performance good, bad or none, will change that. I just don’t think most pastors who nix his book gets that. It’s unfortunate because it is all through scripture. God comes to us where we are.
I don’t agree with all of Paul Young but I do agree with most and he has challenged my preconceived thinking. A lot. 🙂 And that’s a good thing.
Debby,
Ditto what Debbie said!
okay, thank you, Debbie and Wade…that is an interesting viewpoint to see it from…I really couldn’t reconcile it all until you expressed that particular framework…that is what I need! I need Jesus to heal my emotions and the walls I’ve built up through faulty thinking that began in my childhood…I feel like a seesaw sometimes…..one day He loves me, the next day….yes? no? maybe?…depending on my behavior that day…..I will definitely be listening!!
DebbyLynn,
I so get where you are coming from. I trust Wade and Deb, and Dee because they have proved their love for God and all his children by what they write and preach. McArthur, Challies, et al talk a good game but it is their actions toward saved and unsaved people I watch for. People live what they believe. This is an important lesson I have learned coming out from under a strict, authoritarian teaching of the bible. It will take time to de-program but the time is well worth it as you discover who God truly is and how much you are loved. It is sooooo freeing. I will pray for you.
“He Who Hath Turn The Christian World Up-Side-Down, Has Come Here Also?”
hmmm…
Wade, doth your fellow Christian pastor fiddle while our nation ‘burns’?
What is it to gain the whole ‘Pastoral Christian World’, yet loose one soul? Or two? Or three?
Missing the mark, what’s that?
Can they truly say, “I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith”?–When Jesus’ church lies in inferno ruins?
huh?
Be it known, that in the last days, that many a pastor of the flock of God should become lovers of themselves, heady, high-minded, truth breakers, who dispatch the flock of God with greedy abandon…
Be ye not so.
“Human religious effort is a fact of life in almost every culture. Yet Stephen (in the Book of Acts) declares it is such effort that has kept Israel from knowing the righteous Savior and true worship.” —“IVP Commentaries”. See: “Acts 7:1-53”.
Can this not also be said of the present-day Christian Church; that such a Human religious effort has kept Jesus’ Church from really knowing the righteous Savior and true worship?
hmmm…
(sadface)
Sopy
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BumperTown-The Mourning Member: “The Church Hath No Furry, Like A Women Sexually Abused?”
hmmm…
The Neo-Calvinist movement has found a certain dis-credidation, through it’s silent approval, approbation, commendation, and would be general acceptance of Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) pastor C. J. Mahaney.
huh?
It was left to certain ‘alleged’ sexually abused women to come forward leveling charges against their ‘alleged’ abusers, –not until then did any action, or proper discussion take place. Now the pending action has a ‘class’.
This is now seen as a type ‘negligence’ , on the greater community part of Neo- Cal pastoral leadership.
A mouthful?
How can anyone believe what thy say, now?
What has this done for the cause of Christ?
The gospel seed sown to the gutter, perhaps?
Questioning Pastoral Leadership?!?
The questioning of many, if not all in church pastoral leadership today, is a direct result of the ‘alleged’ coverup abuse within the many dominations of the Christian church here in North America.
Which leads to the nagging question, is the American pastor in the pulpit, friend or foe?
And how does a church member discern the difference, when direct challenge of pastoral leadership gets one expunged from the roster, or worse, with gag orders, character assignation(s), and the possibility of parking-lot trespass papers served by badged armed civil servants?
What?
Will the Church “Play it again, Sam…” ? –Live to abuse another day?
hmmm…
“Just the facts, Ma’am…”
(sadface)
Sopy
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