Complementarianism is the theological view that although men and women are created equal in their being and personhood, they are created to complement each other via different roles and responsibilities as manifested in marriage, family life, religious leadership, and elsewhere. It is rooted in more literal interpretations of the Creation account and the roles of men and women presented in Scripture. It is also known as the Traditionalist or Hierarchical view.
My daughter's mantle adornment
A Note to my wonderful daughters
Both of you have been such a joy, and my life would not be complete without you. I am so grateful that you are walking with the Lord and pursuing your faith. Because you are now grown and may someday marry that special someone, I want to take this opportunity to share my heart regarding the wonderful institution of marriage.
Around the time that your father proposed to me, there was a clandestine gathering in Danvers, Massachusetts, which just happens to be near Dee's hometown of Salem. These men (and a few women) took it upon themselves to define marriage for the rest of us.
As you know, your dad and I have always enjoyed our egalitarian marriage, which was at your father's insistence. As we approach our silver anniversary, I can honestly say that our marriage has gotten stronger with each passing year. We are more in love today that when we exchanged our vows in Duke Chapel. If at some point you decide to wed, my desire for you is that you would find a husband who has the same wonderful qualities as your father. He is truly an inspiration to me, and I am so proud to be his wife.
As your mom, I am deeply concerned that you may be influenced by those who are pushing "biblical manhood and womanhood" (also known by that made up word complementarian) onto the Christian world. I find it highly offensive that they would characterize my marriage as "unbiblical" (keep in mind that I have continually been a stay-at-home wife and mother beginning very early in our marriage).
I want you to be aware of the arguments by those who espouse complementarianism so you will not be caught off guard.
First of all, complementarians claim that Christians have been influenced by feminism over the last 30 to 40 years. As you (my daughters) know, I am NOT a feminist, and my positions have not been shaped by feminism.
Complementarians point out that whenever Jesus and Paul describe marriage, they go back to Genesis 1 and 2 (prior to the fall in Genesis 3). They use the pre-fall, monogamous union of one man and one woman and specific roles given in the garden as the basis for biblical manhood and womanhood. They claim that specific roles were given to husbands and wives in the Garden of Eden and that marriage is meant to be a display of the Gospel to the world with the husband representing Jesus Christ and the wife representing the church. Furthermore, complementarians believe the ordering of leadership in the church has to reflect the ordering of leadership in the home.
In the complementarian/egalitarian debate, here are several often quoted verses:
"Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body."
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ."
These are VERY important verses! The complementarians (Wayne Grudem in particular) define "head" as "authority". Others, including egalitarians, define "head" as "source". I believe the interpretation of kephale (head) can mean "source". Complementarians staunchly disagree.
Shortly after this verse in 1 Corinthians, "headcoverings" are discussed. Apparently, not all scripture is meant to be followed, otherwise, all Christian women would be wearing headcoverings during worship.
I want to leave you with what Chaplain Mike, blogger on the Internet Monk website, had to say in his post Complementarianism is a Sham. He stated:
"In terms of practical day to day roles and tasks, in Christ, we are free to organize and live out our family lives as we choose, within the context of the Gospel and the virtues of new life the Spirit produces within us."
There are many strong Christians who believe as Chaplain Mike does, including your mom and dad. We have received feedback from real people who followed the complementarian model of marriage, and it ruined their relationships. Should marriage be God's will for your life, please please listen to that still small voice instead of these over-zealous leaders who espouse complementarianism. Your mom and dad are living testimonies to the success of an egalitarian relationship. Always keep Jesus Christ the Lord of your life, and the Holy Spirit will be your guide.
Here is a wonderful reminder of God's grace in your life. Never, never allow the chains of complementarian (which I believe are patriarchy in disguise) to bind you.
(Jack – this song is dedicated to you.)
Lydia's Corner: Habakkuk 1:1-3:19 Revelation 9:1-21 Psalm 137:1-9 Proverbs 30:10
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As I have mentioned in a previous post, it is interesting that some of the more vocal complementarians (Grudem, Piper, and Kassian) have sons. Yes, John and Noelle did adopt a daughter.
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When my niece was 10 I took her with me to the Methodist church I was attending. She was really surprised that the Pastor was a woman. Did I mention she was 10? I want her to grow up with a different paradigm.
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To my bachelor son; Don't marry a woman whose mother is telling her daughter what she must believe about men and women's roles. Save yourself a lot of grief.
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Oh for cryin' out loud Jimmy…REALLY!?!? You and JSB should find another blog to stalk. Please? But before you go, have a listen to the song, maybe, just maybe you'll be set free. Thanks Deb!! 🙂
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jack,
I doubt Jimmy's son would enjoy having me for a mother-in-law… 😉
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No doubt! You know, I really am hoping that you all don’t end up taking as much garbage and abuse that Debbie Kaufman did. Not that you already haven’t. But I hated reading what some of those numbskulls would write to/about her. Please take good care of yourselves my dear Pastors!
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Jimmy to bachelor son interpretation: “You have the right to have a personal servant and to have someone to rule over. Stay away from girls who have mothers who tell them that they are born free in both the United States and are free in Jesus Christ to not to have to obey you and serve you. Since your male ego needs constant stroking, find a girl who has already been kowtowed into submission. This will save you from having to retrain her to be the doormat you desire and deserve.”
Good news, Jimmy. There are tons of girls out there for your bachelor son being raised by the patriarchy groups like Vision Forum.
And if he doesn’t like those, there are always mail order brides from Asia. (I hope you son gets a Mulan and matures past your sorry and insecure attitude.)
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WARNING WARNING WARNING: Single ladies – stay away, stay FAR away from Jimmy's bachelor son. Do not even think about getting involved with any man who believes the patriarchal lie. If you do get involved with a male that buys into that crap, you are only asking for an unfulfilled life, a life of slavery.
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I haven’t forgotten about the mother with two married daughters who attend Mars Hill. This concerned mom commented here at TWW just before one of her daughters was to give birth to her first child. There had been some friction between this grandmother-to-be and her son-in-law, and the SIL cut off all communication.
Shame, shame, shame…
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Folks notice again the lack of concern that Jimmy has for women. I do not say this about very many folks but it disgusts me to read the garbage he places here on this site.
I often wonder if this is some sort of game for him.
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I presume ol’ Jimbo would be okay with his bachelor son marrying a woman whose father told her what to believe. (But don’t worry old bean, your bloodline shouldn’t be tainted with an egalitarian streak. You don’t want your son marrying a woman raised to know she’s equal to men? I think the feeling would be mutual.)
This makes me think of a conversation between my mom and the pastor at our old church. The pastor told my mom that she needed to teach me how to submit, because, for example, if I got married and my husband and I wanted to go to different churches, I would have to defer to his decision. My mom burst out laughing and said that if that was marriage, then I would rather not get married!
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JJ,
The secrecy among this crowd is astounding, beginning with the writing of the Danvers Statement.
I believe in FULL DISCLOSURE so gals like you and my daughters can think about what you’re getting into BEFORE marrying someone who must toe the COMP line. Why is Scientology suddenly coming to mind?
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Have I mentioned that COMPLEMENTARIANISM is just a made-up word???
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Jimmy to bachelor son interpretation #2, ghetto version: “Keep the pimp hand strong, son. Keep the pimp hand strong.”
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I fully support this blog installment!
Do you think that Genesis is really the main foundation of comps’ belief, though? I think it’s a lot of the women verses in the NT (some of which you mentioned), and the Genesis interpretation is read in sort of as a “backup” since the foundational verses are being challenged.
And by the way, I really think Jimmy is a troll who entertains himself by seeing what kind of a reaction he can get, so….don’t give him the satisfaction. If he’s not a troll, then he obviously needs a lot of prayer. 🙂
This is the kind of advice I’m going to give my daughters. I remember when I was dating my (now-egalitarian) husband and he was soft comp. I remember asking my parents if it was selfish/wrong of me to be so insistent with him that I wanted an egalitarian marriage. My parents’ advice was, “There is nothing wrong with appraising a future spouse of what you can and can’t live with. That’s not mean; that’s realistic and fair.”
That’s what I would suggest all couples do if/when they start getting serious.
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jack
We are willing to take a lot of garbage for the sake of free and open discussion about issues which have plagued the church for many years. We subscribe to the CS Lewis axiom: Friendship is born at the moment when someone says to you "What, you too? I thought I was the only one."
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Mara
I wonder why Jimmy does not speak of his wife. Maybe she has a different point of view? And perhaps she has some influence over her son as well.
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Jimmy
What does you wife have to say about this? You have not mentioned her at all.
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Is Jimmy married? I may have missed that along the way.
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You know, Jimmy, you quite clearly want your son to marry someone who has been told what they should believe about men’s and women’s roles – you just want it to be a woman who has been told to believe what YOU think about men’s and women’s roles.
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OFF TOPIC
This mother is wondering whether Jimmy would like to weigh in on the following, which we have previously discussed here at TWW:
Penn State report: Freeh says Joe Paterno, administrators engaged in Sandusky cover-up
“Joe Paterno and Penn State’s most influential administrators did not concern themselves with the victims of abuse at the hands of now convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky, Louis Freeh’s seven-month investigation concluded. The report was released Thursday.
Despite there being “more red flags here than you can count,” the most powerful men at Penn State failed to bring down a sexual predator who used the football facilities to commit heinous crimes against young boys.
“Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s child victims by the the most senior leaders at Penn State,” Freeh said.”
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Jimmy, I’m shocked that you will even show up here anymore. Well, I’m back to gloat and to ask how you want your crow served up. You assured me a while back that Sandusky and Paterno would be exhonerated. Well, well, well. Sandusky’s looking at the rest of his life in the big house and as for Paterno, the Freeh report that came out today reveals that your beloved JoePa knew what was going on back in 1998 and did nothing to stop the sexual abuse of further boys. Yet scumbags like you will continue to defend him. If you had any ounce of decency left, you would hang your head in shame and walk away.
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Deb, you beat me to the punch.
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Alan.
I believe Jimmy has some splainin’ to do.
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Good news Deb, there are a lot of metrosexual males out there who would LOVE to have you for their mother-in-law. grin
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Eagle,
Affirmative. We’ll see what we can do.
It’s a busy day….
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Jimmy –
We know Deb likes to look nice, but I’m sure a metrosexual son-in-law is not her main prayer 🙂 BUT if a son-in-law is so inclined . . . they will have fun shopping!
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Jimmy,
You just insulted Deb and her daughters terribly. A real macho man, ex sportsman (NFL, NBA, NHL or at least college letterman), with muscles, facial hair, an education and licensure in a profession, and a deep abiding faith in Christ. That is what Deb deserves as a son-in-law. BTW, I know a few that meet that description who are egalitarians and would never may a prospective doormat woman, but they are all married. And Jimmy, if you are ever in Central Texas, I challenge you to a concrete busting sledge hammer contest, and will whip you. And I am old enough to have made a profession of faith 56 years ago this past spring and have been an egalitarian for 50 years or so.
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Juniper writes:
“When my niece was 10 I took her with me to the Methodist church I was attending. She was really surprised that the Pastor was a woman. Did I mention she was 10? I want her to grow up with a different paradigm.”
Exactly. This is why I’m raising my nine year-old daughter in a Presbyterian church with 50% female elders where half of the sermons are delivered by a female pastor, and her grandmother is not permitted to take her to the complementarian SBC church in which I was raised. Patriarchy is extinguished one little girl at a time.
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The two most notable egalitarians of our day are Bill Clinton and the late John Edwards. They were more than willing to let their wives not only share but lead. They were/are egalitarians to the Core.
But if we could go back in time to when they were in their 20’s would you want a niece or sister or daughter to marry one of them knowing what we now know? Or would you actually have them marry a 25 year old Johnny Piper instead.
I’d want my daughter to marry a complementarian John Piper over Bill Clinton or John Edwards any day. You know John Piper would take good care of your daughter.
You also know, neither Edwards or Clinton would. But Bill and the late John Edwards are/were wonderful egalitarians.
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Wartburgians; can I encourage you to get a grip? Neither Dee nor Deb are insulted by anything I ever post. Are they sometimes ired? Of course. But they dish it out as well as they take it.
AND, I would not ever insult their children. As far as I can tell they have wonderful kids and are rightfully proud mothers..
As for a concrete busting contest; I dug a small trench last Saturday for 15 minutes and had to go to bed to treat my blister. So much for a sledgehammer contest.
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Bridget said; “We know Deb likes to look nice, but I’m sure a metrosexual son-in-law is not her main prayer BUT if a son-in-law is so inclined . . . they will have fun shopping!”
Had to laugh Bridget. Good one.
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So it’s either John Piper or Bill Clinton and John Edwards? Those are the choices? I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a DOUBLE straw man argument before. That’s actually quite a feat.
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Jimmy, when I was very new here I asked what positive purpose you served on this blog…I’m going to ask that again. What positive purpose do you serve on this blog? It’s not as though Dee & Deb don’t understand your point of view, that’s what they’re writing to counter most of the time.
I just feel tired when I read what you write.
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. . . It’s also the least appetizing game of FMK, maybe ever.
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Wait, so all we women can choose from are the young John Pipers, John Edwards and Bill Clintons of the world? Times are tougher than I thought 😉
Talk about a false dilemma.
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People, people….stop feeding the troll. Jimbo is nothing more than a two bit circus clown. The best thing you can do with “his” type is to simply ignore “him.”
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Correcting one more comment. I NEVER assured anybody that Sandusky or Paterno would be exonerated. I certainly did belief a “rush to judgment” was not called for. I still believe that is the best approach when accused of crimes or sins.
Sandusky? Guilty on pretty much all counts.
Paterno? Dead as far as I know. He may, indeed, have stone walled further investigations. JoePa’s not here to defend his record anymore.
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Jimmy said,
“The two most notable egalitarians of our day are Bill Clinton and the late John Edwards.”
Who is the ‘late’ John Edwards?
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[[MOD]] Tweeeeeeeeeet!
Time to cool down. No name calling. Make your arguments without the extra flames.
What a fraud. You’re covered in so much slime I’m starting to wonder if you’re actually a fish.
Nice attempt at a backtrack, but try selling that line somehwere else.
Newsflash…if JoePa was still alive (which, by the way, I wish he was so that he could go to jail) he wouldn’t be able to defend his so called record.
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“You know John Piper would take good care of your daughter.”
I would not be so sure about that, Jimmy. I would watch this instead. The first minute is a total adventure in- what the heck?…lust is the first thing right out of the gate? That doesn’t sound too comforting.
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/the-effects-of-aging-on-sanctification
Piper evidently cannot even take care of his being kind…and seems to be saying–oh well, sin, live and let live in me…I gots me the gospellllll.
Whatever that means. If he had control over this video being broadcast over the web, which I am sure he did, then he approves of this video. Since he does, I hold no faith in him taking care of anyone’s daughter. He cannot be kind? After all these years? He’s still hoping for some kindness to manifest in his life? That is how he portrays himself in this video of which he approved. What can he possibly teach me about sanctification at this conference? I think I would take my chances with someone else. I would not wish my daughter to be married to a patriarch…much less an unkind one. That would not be a good combo…imo.
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Deb “Who is the late John Edwards?” Technically speaking, he’s still alive.
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Jimmy –
You are a pedophile’s best friend. I have worked in children’s ministry for over 20 years and I would move heaven and earth to keep you out.
Mind you, I did not call you a pedophile. Just the best person in the world to be in place when one is at work.
Shame on you, Jimmy.
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Perhaps it would benefit Jimmy to go to Piper’s sanctification conference so he can learn how to be kind?…well–maybe not the best place to learn.
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Wow, so many straw men–it’s a veritable scarecrow field!
The best thing I can think of to say here is just my own experience. I am married to a strong, conservative Christian man who knows his own mind and is every mother’s dream for her little girl to marry. He is kind, sensitive, strong, stubborn, creative, imaginative, adventurous, and most importantly, cares hugely about his relationship with God.
And he has gotten so zealous for the case of egalitarianism that he is determined to live that way in our family (as am I!) He wants it for me and for our (hopefully someday) daughters.
So the bottom line is, there are plenty of Godly, quality, spiritual guys out there who are passionate about egalitarianism. They make great husbands and are a wonderful witness to Christ in their lives. People like Piper are afraid to admit that egalitarians (particularly men) could be that good, but they really, really are. They’re proving every day that egalitarian men make great marriage partners. And so do egalitarian women, at least, if you listen to my husband’s POV.
Sorry for the rant 🙂 There’s just a lot of negativity going on here and I wanted to throw out something positive, affirming, and true.
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Jimmy,
Thanks for the clarification. When the Edwards family lived in Raleigh, they attended a Methodist church – the same one where Elizabeth Edwards’ funeral was held.
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Jimmy got it bass akwards (as usual) John Edwards (the cad) had a lovely wife who has passed away from breast cancer.
Hillary Clinton is a damn good Secretary of State.
I am the mother of five daughters three of whom are married in egal relationships. My sons in law feel fortunate to have been given the opportunity to be part of such dynamic and awesome human beings and are wise enough not to dare try to treat them like the gender Jim Crows that have been the subject of recent discussion.
There is nothing on the Y chromosome that codes for leadership. The only thing that has anything to do with headship is all about the little man if you know what I mean and I have no doubt the BM(w) mentality is a lot of little man thinking for the big man type of intellect.
Jimmy, keep on running your mouth, you are an example to illustrate my point.
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DB, I have not commented negatively, or at all, on either the late Elizabeth Edwards or Hillary Clinton.
I DID comment upon their husbands however.
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Peace, people, peace! 🙂
Re Clinton, Edwards & Piper, I don’t know what these men were like as young men. However re political and theological views, adulterers can come from any background, whether comp/cons or lib/egal.
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Dana said: I have worked in children’s ministry for over 20 years and I would move heaven and earth to keep you out.”
Dana, you and I are in agreement. I moved heaven and earth to make sure I did NOT get shanghied into children’s ministry. Didn’t like it, sometimes substituted, in emergencies, rather grudgingly. Not my forte. Not my interest. I had even less interest in teenagers.
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Diane –
“Maybe God just wants me to know how deeply sinful I am
. . . and maybe I will have some real sweetness in the last decade of my life?” – Piper
This was John Piper musing about what God might be thinking toward him as John contemplates his disappointment in not being a nicer person by now.
Why does this statement bother me? Does it bother you, Diane?
It makes God sound like he WANTS us to wallow in our sin . . . so we know how sinful we are. Didn’t Jesus come to free us from this sin? Didn’t he promise the Holy Spirit to us as a Helper? Didn’t Jesus break the chains?
I find that these types of statements by Piper are contrary to what Jesus did and said. How can God want us to stay in our sin . . . just so he can prove something about himself. It also almost becomes an excuse for sin . . . God must have wanted me to stay this way so be can make me see how sinful I really am . . . Huh?
Where does God tell his redeemed children that he wants them to see how very sinful they are? Does John Piper’s god want to beat him over the head with his sin?
God does want us to realize when we sin; repent, which includes turning from it; and press on. God does not want us to stay in our sin. Why would Jesus have come to earth if, in the end, God wants his redeemed to possibly stay in their sin?
This bothers me . . . why doesn’t John Piper just say that he still stumbles in this area of sin and that he turns from it every chance he gets? (He didn’t say THIS at all.) Why put it on God?
People aren’t using God’s sovereignty as an excuse for continuing in sin, are they?
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Jimmy,
Your “move along, nothing to see here” attitude toward stories of sexual abuse make you a hazard to children. We are not in agreement. You can’t be inconvenienced to work with children, but I consider you a danger to the children that could be in your care because of your cavalier attitude toward abuse.
Jimmy: No interest in children. Less in teenagers. Lots of interest in commenting on cases of child abuse in order to shush the conversation.
It doesn’t make you look very good, Jimmy.
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Ah Dana, you really don’t know me. This is a blog, I am a commenter. I often disagree with people’s perception of things. I continue to think guilty people deserve their day in court. I dislike Kangaroo courts.
How many babies have now been aborted? I worry about things like that. I worry about the women who have aborted their own flesh and blood.
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Alan
Joe Pa is now standing before living God and he couldn’t care less about football and cares greatly about his children. I am grateful that Joe will stand before the perfect judge and there will be no more baloney.
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Jimmy
I removed one comment by you. Secondly, be very, very careful on the Sandusky thing. Pedophilia is a hot button topic for me and I will not hesitate to remove any comment that trivializes it.
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Jimmy
My observation: you seem to show far more concern for the reputations of Sandusky and far too little for the children. Why am i wrong?
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Jimmy
You stupidly tied egalitarians to Clinton and Edwards. That is ridiculous and i am thing close to removing the comment. Perhpas I could say that some of the great football coaches in the land are also pedophiles.How about some well known pastors are sexula perverts? How about some abusive men who are complementarians? This is stupid and must stop. Cut it out.
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Children should have been protected BEFORE the reputation of a man, men, or a school were protected or even considered!!!
I’m thinking that this is what Jesus meant about causing little ones to stumble.
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Bridget
I found you comment at 7:03 fascinating. Do you remember when Piper said God allowed the collapse of the bridge in Minneapolis (and the subsequent deaths) in order to make John Piper repent of his sins? I wonder. This focus on his personal sins. Could it be that he is struggling with some stuff and it is consuming him?
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Jimmy
When women abort a baby, they are also aborting a man’s flesh and blood as well. It takes two, so where is the man in your equation? Far too many men desert women who are pregnant and then blame them when they feel trapped. If more men would man up and stand by women who are pregnant, maybe abortions would become more rare. I blame the men as much as the women.
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Jimmy,
Honestly, I don’t care to know you. You don’t have an interest in children, less in teenagers, but you have a big interest in commenting on a blog to shush conversation about child abuse.
Quite frankly, your two friendly comments back to me to minimize my comments are…strange. And not well received.
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Jimmy
God is good, always. but learn when to declare it. Do not do that in a blog in which nuance cannot be understood. To mention the millions of babies aborted and the millions of kids sexually abused and then say God is good is ill advused. Your comment was deleted.
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“Why does this statement bother me? Does it bother you, Diane?”
Yes.
“It makes God sound like he WANTS us to wallow in our sin . . . so we know how sinful we are.”
That’s why I wrote this “…and seems to be saying–oh well, sin, live and let live in me…I gots me the gospellllll” in my coment.
“This bothers me . . . why doesn’t John Piper just say that he still stumbles in this area of sin and that he turns from it every chance he gets? (He didn’t say THIS at all.) Why put it on God?”
I have not a clue what goes on in his head…but I sure got the exact same impressions you did. I mean, I felt rather down at the end of the video.
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Dee, you said: "Jimmy When women abort a baby, they are also aborting a man’s flesh and blood as well. It takes two, so where is the man in your equation? Far too many men desert women who are pregnant, and then blame them when they feel trapped. If more men would man up and stand by women who are pregnant, maybe abortions would become more rare. I blame the men as much as the women."
Rock on! That comment was awesome. Faaaar too many people think this is just a woman's issue. As you rightly point out, it takes two to tango. Well…that's complementarianism for you. Blame the girls for everything; and if men don't adhere to the CBMW's 1950's version of sexual politics, it's because they are acting like "girls". Ugh. And for the record, I AM a feminist…and a Christian. So suck on that, Calvinistas.
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The problem is many who misrepresent Christianity will wax concerned over all the little unborn babies that are aborted but once they are born, they are sinful little creatures whose wills are to be broken and they are beaten and subjected into submission to the male head of (whatever) and the hypocrisy is evident to the non-Christian observer.
The take home message to the larger world is an anti-abortion stance to keep girls in their place because if they're pregnant they're hussies, if they abort, they are baby killers.
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Diane and Dee –
I, as well, have no idea what Piper thinks when he makes these statements. I think these statements cause some people to stumble. The sad thing is that many people may not be comfortable with some of his statements, but they can’t quite figure out what is off. BUT, many also don’t question what he says because he is the Piper, and they think he is brilliant; and they just can’t understand his brilliant ways. I have found that when I really dig into something that doesn’t sit right, I usually find the reason why. People need to stop thinking that theology is over their heads and start studying and asking questions.
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Deb –
Up at your first comment:
“the most vocal complementarians” ARE the same ones who created the doctrine at Danvers. It’s no wonder they are the staunch defenders 🙂 They wrote a book and created a website to spread the doctrine! Is that website still down – months later?
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Jimmy’s comment removed by the increasingly irritated Dee.
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Just delete me Dee. You and most of the other Wartburgians will be happier and I’ll be okay. Go ahead, it’ll be fine.
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“People need to stop thinking that theology is over their heads and start studying and asking questions.”
Amen, Bridget, Amen!!
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Complementarianism: Eight-syllable word for “WOMAN! DO AS I SAY OR I BEAT YOU!”
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That’s because this is FOOTBALL(TM). As the Omega Male of my high school, I have seen firsthand how FOOTBALL(TM) defines The Master Race. And before MMA Cage Fighting, FOOTBALL(TM) strikes me as the type of sport which would really appeal to Complementarians.
“I was a Football Star in High School. Once I Scored THREE TOUCHDOWNS in One Game!!!!!” — Al Bundy, Married with Children
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Maybe she Knows Her Place?
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Bridget,
CBMW took down their site intentionally about a week before ours crashed. Not much has changed over there from what I can tell. In the meantime, it’s been business as usual around here for weeks. 😉
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Jimmy-
Your comment about Clinton and Edwards is just plain stupid.
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Yes, why has CBMW been down for so long? That must be some pretty involved “construction”…
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Perhaps they’re getting rid of the C and W and being honest about the BM because they’re full of the brown stuff.
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Jimmy
Bow you are trying to control my deleting. Interesting.
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Bridget on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:20 PM said:
“…People need to stop thinking that theology is over their heads and start studying and asking questions…”
Amen Bridget! And that’s precisely why these guys are able to run roughshod over the sheeple, because they know that the majority of them will just sit in the pews like good little Hawaiian-bobble-headed-hula-dolls and not do their own homework and thinking.
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Jesus told us that the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. But that HE himself gives us life and abundant life.
When I read Deb and Dee I hear my Shepherd’s voice, Jesus. When I read Jimmy I hear the wolf.
But Jimmy, the good news is that Jesus laid down His life so that you too can know freedom in Him. His burden is light and He gives his joy freely, you don’t have to steal it, kill it, or destroy it in order to get some ‘kicks’ out of life.
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I’m wondering if the CBMW site being down has anything to do with numerous articles by CJ Mahaney and Josh Harris. I mean I wonder if all that SGM controversy has affected the CBMW’s board and council members.
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“….Hawaiian-bobble-headed-hula-dolls…”
lol..love it! An apt description of some!
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I am NOT a feminist, and my positions have not been shaped by feminism.
Really? That surprises me.
According to Merriam-Webster:
fem-i-nism noun
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests
— fem-i-nist noun or adjective
By definition #1, I am a feminist. It seems what you’re saying is you’re not a radical feminist, those who believe in the superiority of women and the oppression of men. Being a feminist and a radical feminist are vastly different things.
“Feminism” has been turned into a dirty word by the men (and the women who cow down to them) who feel threatened by women. It’s also been corrupted by radical feminists, much like the original meaning of “complementary” has been corrupted by the patriarchs.
Just my opinion, but y’all are taking Jimmy way too seriously. He’s a troll who only wants the attention he’s getting here.
Carry on.
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“I’m wondering if the CBMW site being down has anything to do with numerous articles by CJ Mahaney and Josh Harris. I mean I wonder if all that SGM controversy has affected the CBMW’s board and council members.”
Nope. CJ, Head Apostle, is doing just fine and has fallen into the arms of his protector, Al Mohler, employee of SBTS. Looks like the SBC is now into shepherding cult church plants along with the sex obsessed Acts 29 church plants they paid for.
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NASS,
So right. Feminism got you the vote. And many of them were little old church ladies who lobbied for years.
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Good point, Anon. Ninety years ago I would have been right there lobbying with them. Because of the efforts of feminists, women can now vote, own land, and have the same legal rights as men. We owe these tenacious women (and the men who supported them) a debt of gratitude. I am proud to call myself a “feminist” in the true sense of the word, not some perverted definition people like Piper and the patriarchs have concocted because they feel threatened.
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Muff Potter –
At one time I was one of the bobble-headed! I’ve been awakened from my slumber now 🙂
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The case that threw out miscegenation as an offense of law and allowed inter-racial marriage was not based on the rights of a black American to choose to marry a white, but on the right of a white person to choose to marry a black person! It was decided at a time when blacks were believed to have fewer rights than whites.
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notastepfordsheep said,
“I am proud to call myself a “feminist” in the true sense of the word, not some perverted definition people like Piper and the patriarchs have concocted because they feel threatened.”
DITTO! Thanks for your comments, with which I am in agreement.
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An Attorney
I did not know that! Thanks for the history lesson.
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Bridget,
It should be noted right here and now that “bobble-headed” can apply equally to the male gender. Just check out any vid on youtube or wherever and what these guys are selling as “Biblical”, and you’ll see the guys chuckle and “bobble” their heads along in rapt agreement to just about anything they’re pushing.
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This is all really much ado about nothing……any man who thinks he’s in charge is either single or thinks that way because a woman allows him his delusions. That’s like saying the boss runs the office…bull….his secretary does. Every once in a while my wife lets me win an arguement….not because I’m right but because she’s smarter than me and knows my delicate male ego needs an occasional victory.
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Jerry, you are too funny! I remember reading Lee Iaccoca’s book after he took over Chrysler. He laid off a ton of people but not one single secretary. He said they ran the place and knew where all the bodies were buried.
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“Turned into a dirty word” by Male Supremacists and “corrupted” by Female Supremacists?
I remember some SF novel — A World Between by Norman Spinrad(?) — which dealt with an propaganda war on a human-settled planet whose factions were offworld True Believers — Total Male Supremacists and Total Female Supremacists — who’d been fighting their Eternal War on a myriad of other worlds.
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“We have received feedback from real people who followed the complementarian model of marriage, and it ruined their relationships.”
The same could be said for some egalitarian marriages. It also is true that many complimentarian marriages are extremely happy and many egalitarian marriages are extremely happy. Each couple has to work out their relationship based on what they believe scriptures teaches. If we all are serving one another and “consider one another as better than ourselves” then it is kind of a moot point.
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strawberryred
I don’t disagree with your comment; however, I do want to point out that the made-up word “complementarian” is spelled with an “e”, not an “i”, as Mary Kassian pointed out in her treatise which she called:
Complementarianism for Dummies
I guess it’s important to get the spelling correct with that invented word.
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If people in their marriages were complimentarian, that is, the consistently, lovingly, and truthfully complimented their spouse then there would be a lot less negativity and a lot more happiness.