“I realize that the visual of me wearing a suit and standing on a platform may trigger some bad memories.”

Yes it does.
It helps to turn on the screen-saver with just the audio on.

“Second, I am not a professional entertainer.”

Really? Well, I will have to think about that one.

Deb: “What’s important in our EChurch is that people are given the opportunity to experience ‘authentic worship.'”

How?

By

a. Posting and having texted conversations?
b. Watching music videos?
c. Watching video sermons?
d. All of the above?

How?

By

a. Posting and having texted conversations?
b. Watching music videos?
c. Watching video sermons?
d. All of the above?

Hello Anonymous

a) Words are the means of communicating and fellowshipping between individuals regardless of the method used. Paul did both via the written word with all the believers in all the churches.

b) Most churches today have video screens with the words to the songs for the convenience of those who don’t know them.

c) The Word is preached that’s all that matters. Many believers listen to teachings and preaching via the internet. Praise God for this venue.

d) Yes, all of the above and more! It’s a uniting of spirits that transcends time and space. That’s what the universal church is, after all.

Blessings to you, my brother and/or sister.

Haven’t listened to everything yet, but how coincidental that the song “Above All” was chosen. This song is one of two that were singled out by Bob Kauflin, director of SGM worship, in his book “Worship Matters” as examples of bad theology pervading the CCM industry; the line “you thought of me above all” is theologically incorrect because Jesus wasn’t thinking of you above all on the cross, he thought of the Father’s glory above all. Oops, I forgot…. this is a “baloney free zone.” 😛

Don’t worry, I think Bob is dead wrong on that song; “Above All” doesn’t contextually refer to “above everything that ever existed,” but as in “God though of me above his own comfort and even his very life, being willing to embrace suffering and death for my sake.” I personally use this song all the time. And I forgive you for using Mercy Me and Casting Crowns, in the same service.

To his credit, Bob Kauflin does have some pretty incredible music that is very worth checking into.

Scooters.mom: I just want you to know how much I love reading your comments and they touch my heart.

The Gospel is indeed Good News. Having been brought up in a fundamental Baptist church and only knowing that doctrine for the first 35 years of my life, I understand your journey. Then I read the Bible. 🙂

Dee, that is insightful. I had slowly been formulating a similar conclusion of the Charismatic calvinists, but you put it quite succinctly. It’s not an absolute rule, but a strong tendency. I really think, though, the get this from the Puritans. Spend a week in the “Valley of Vision” and see if you don’t come to see yourself as a slug. Sure, I’m a totally depraved sinner, but for pete’s sake, that’s neither my favorite nor most important theological point to dwell on. There’s something fairly significant that ought to really overshadow it… let me see… I’m sure I can think of it… grace maybe? I suppose that the problem with “mourning for sin,” despite the pious pretense of the penitential practice, is that it fails to dwell on the more glorious truth of God’s forgiveness, which is greater than our sins are deep.

Dee and Deb and Wade,

Thank you for this so much. Thanks for your boldness in doing this. Again, thanks, and thanks.

Argo

Dee and Deb,
You realize you will get a thousand asinine questions over this eChurch. I won’t hold it against you if you don’t answer them all. I wouldn’t. My answer? A big whatever. If it offends your clearly superior moral sensibility, then you are free to go away. I hate being like that but sometimes to respond to silliness is, in fact, JUST a waste of time.

BUT, I will say this: In reference to the post above (yo, and your implication that this endeavor is obviously soooooo wrong because someone might fold laundry while listening to the sermon is certainly unassailable evidence that this idea is so bad that you can actually, literally see it dripping in its own pervasive depravity. So, the next time you get up and take your kid out to the lobby so he/she can run around and you listen to the sermon over the loudspeaker while you keep him/her from eating a rubber band, consider yourself utterly condemned, sinner!

Anyway, Dee, Deb and Wade, again, for being so bold in doing this and for all of the nonsense you’ll have to suffer for it, thank you again!!

I’ve never cried during a sermon. This is the first time I came close.

Argo: Wow! Just Wow! I mean that in a good way. 🙂

I haven’t been able to attend church regularly for about eight years. My little son has severe autism and has to do a lot of jumping and hand flapping and yodelling to feel okay. Needless to say, not a lot of churches are set up to accommodate impromptu yodelling. 🙂

I’ve been praying for my church – wherever it is, whatever form it might take – for a while now. And then last week I found your site. Pastor Wade, both weeks your message brought me to tears.

Dee, Deb, Pastor Wade – thank you, so much.

Dee,

My beef with Kauflin is a bit personal, so much so that I’ve considered writing him concerning it.

But here’s the thing: much of his music was made before Mahaney ever hired him. He was actually an arranger and performer with the group “Glad.” Consider that instead of being an active perpetrator of spiritual abuse, he may be somewhere between a passive ignorer to a downright victim himself. Regardless, I don’t know of any of the survivors that cited him as having an active role in their pain. But I’ve hardly followed the story.

In his book, he spends a good fourth of it on the right relationships that should be in a worship leader’s life. One of the chapters is devoted to the relationship between the worship leader (me) and the “senior pastor.” Well, you can probably guess the line he took: “Don’t touch the Lord’s anointed,” more or less. But it wasn’t the same as the Chuck Smith “Moses model” I grew up on: It was much more convincingly spiritualized and infused with reformed theology (i.e., a “God glorifying relationship looks like this…”). I fell for it, and took to an overly submissive approach to relating to my boss, making excuses to myself for his shortcomings and telling myself that if I honor his wishes (even when I had strong convictions to the contrary) God would grant me success. Let’s just say, I don’t work there anymore, and my critical thinking skills have improved since then. And the resolution was something less than God glorifying; my former pastor is to this day in great need of accountability, which he absolutely does not believe in.

But apparently Kauflin is no hypocrite, he has really practiced what he preached; from what I hear he wouldn’t stand up to Maheney. What I want to know is, has his conviction been shaken at all? Has he reconsidered that maybe honesty is more important in a ministry relationship than rank?

Three must hears even for the bitter skeptic: “Mary Mary,” one of the best Glad a cappella pieces.
“O Great God,” adapted from a prayer in “The Valley of Vision,” and his remake of “Oh the Deep, Deep Love of Jesus.” Of all hymn remakes, this one is the closest to an improvement of the original I have found. Despite my grievance with his ghastly guidance, I will probably continue using that one.
And I definitely want to read The Sparrow now, even though you blew the ending.

BTW – sorry it takes me so long to answer back but I don’t always have ready access to a computer.

also… i think The Sparrow is part 1 of a two-part novel, really.

Dee, authority means different things in different contexts, I suppose. Many of the Calvinistas really stretch the definition of the word to support their cultural patriarchy. At my church, we don’t have a problem with women doing the readings, which happens occasionally, but we almost always have men doing it simply because we view it as the elder’s job to lead the worship services. But we’ve had some of our deacon ladies do it, our youth leader, and even members of the youth group, many of whom were gals.

The kind of authority I believe in I guess would have to include a few things. First, the pastor has the authority to speak on behalf of the church. When he preaches, he is proclaiming the common message of the church. Second, he has the authority to forgive sins. But that’s just a Lutheran thing. Also, since I believe congregations should have a plurality of elders, the pastor kind of serves as chairman of that council, organizing and pointing it in the direction he believes most spiritually helpful for the congregation. Whether or not he really is the “first among equals,” as the seminary trained elder, the rest always will look to him for some leadership. Also, he tends to serve as the head of staff; as a music minister, my pastor is also my boss, and he should have the right, if for nothing other than corporate efficiency, to tell me what to do on the job. The elders as a board have the authority to align the church with a tradition or denomination, to establish the doctrinal statements of the church, to administer communion and bar unbelievers from receiving it. The ordained ministers also have the authority to pronounce a couple as husband and wife.

Basically, anything that is too tedious to have a full congregational vote on, the Pastor ought to just be able to do it without jumping through the hoops of winning unanimous approval. Otherwise his entire life consists of navigating red tape.

But he does not have the authority to betray a confidence, to micromanage the lives of people in his congregation, or to manipulate people into his preferred lifestyle patterns such as ministry service or giving. The elders as a board can establish expectations of the membership, provided they understand how to make exceptions based on necessity.

Just a few random and quick thoughts on the issue. I feel this is based more on common sense and efficiency than actual scriptural exegesis. Pastors going to scripture for authority often are trying to justify something.