Tim Challies: Can the Neo-Castrati Be Far Behind?

“What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing; it also depends on what kind of a person you are. " CS Lewis
 

Massive Star VY Canis Majoris - Polarized Light Hubble

Canis Majoris-Hubble/NASA

Well, well ,well…It seems like the Elephant Room boys are at it again, attempting to marginalize bloggers. Do they not understand that, with every mundane insult, they cause more and more hits on our blogs? According to Tom Rich, at FBC Jax blog, here, Matt Chandler said that Internet bloggers get no support from him because they are people who "live with their moms."

I have one thing to say. The moms are back from Enid, there is no one living in our basements and we are miffed. And when we get miffed, we blog. It is patently obvious that bloggers are making a difference in “business as usual.” Some pastors are not pleased that they no longer control the microphone. These pastors jump up and down, saying “Look at me, look at me!” We are looking and we are noticing. But they don’t get to tell us what we are seeing.
 

Our trip to Enid

We had a blessed time in Enid. Wade Burleson is one of the finest preachers we have ever heard. He is the pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid and we highly recommend that you listen to last week’s sermon on Hebrews, here, to get an idea of the caliber of his teaching. The fact that he mentions your humble blog queens has little to do with it. 

And, to top it all off, he is a real pastor. It struck us when we were eating dinner with Wade and his beautiful and talented wife, Rachelle, at Chili's. Enid is a diverse community about two hours west of Tulsa. People in the restaurant, kids, teens and adults, kept approaching our table to say “hi” to their beloved pastor and his equally loved wife. We would see this scene repeated over and over again during our stay. Wade is no talking head. The people of both Emmanuel and Enid exhibit affection which is based on a personal relationship with him. How many of your book writing, conference going, circuit riding pastors have such a relationship with the “little guy?”

Wade and Rachelle demonstrate what is good in Christianity. Readers often ask TWW if there is anything that we appreciate in today’s pastors. We now have a simple answer-Wade Burleson. This is one man who gets the “priesthood of the believer.”

We also had the opportunity to visit with Debbie Kaufman, the blogger who exposed the lies of Ergun Caner. How wonderful to see the fellowship that can exist amongst Christian bloggers. She is an awesome lady. Guys living in mom’s basement, my foot!

As time goes on, we will begin to discuss what we have in store for the future. We will also regale you with more stories from Enid. Suffice to say, we plan to have an ongoing relationship with Wade and Rachelle. We are most appreciative for their hospitality.

Tim Challies’ absurd conclusion:

Late Monday night, we read a comment at TWW by Eagle, which alerted us to a deeply disturbing post by Tim Challies. We discussed this in depth yesterday, while in transit, planning our post for today. We were pleasantly surprised that Wade wrote on this subject. Believe it or not, we had not discussed this with him! Perhaps God wishes for this matter to be exposed.

Here is what Tom Challies had to say. Please take a deep breath and sit down.

“Because of the importance of the Word of God, at Grace Fellowship Church we ask certain members of the church to be involved in a Scripture Reading Ministry—a ministry of those who are specially trained and equipped to read the Word of God and to read it well. We consider this a teaching ministry, which means that it is a ministry reserved for men.”

Let me get this straight. Jesus died on the Cross-for both men and women. The Temple curtain was torn in two, showing that God now directly dwells with His people. The Holy Spirit is given to both men and women. And Challies states that only men are allowed do Scripture readings from the pulpit?????

He claims that reading Scripture is considered “teaching” and, apparently, it is sinful for women to teach men. He believes he must “fence” the pulpit from the unbiblical reading of Scripture by a female.

Here are a couple of logical questions:

  • If a woman sings Psalm 23 from the fenced pulpit, would she be in violation of Challies’ gender rule?
  • If Mary lived long enough to see her Magnificat written down, would she be allowed to speak it?

Internet Monk:

The Internet Monk, responding to Challies’ post, here, asked several questions
 

  • Can a woman give a testimony publicly, sharing Bible verses by which God helped her? Is that teaching?
  • Is the restriction on public Scripture reading only for public worship, or does it apply to classes?
  • Can I, as a teacher, ask a woman in my mixed gender Bible class to read a passage from the Bible out loud, for the class to hear?
  • Can women read the Bible aloud in their small groups if men are present?


Chaplain Mike goes on to point out one foolish solution adopted by a church

“I took a course from Walt Liefeld in seminary. His wife was from Plymouth Brethren background, and she was a widow of one of the five missionaries killed by Auca Indians in Ecuador in 1956. Wherever she went after those dramatic events, Christians wanted to hear her story. But in the Brethren churches, women were not allowed to speak in front of the congregation. So they worked out a compromise. She could share her testimony over a microphone, but she had to be hidden from sight, behind a screen or in the next room! That is the kind of silly solution our false restrictions can lead us to adopt.”

Patheos:

Scott McNight, in an article posted on Patheos, here, also commented on Challies’ assumptions.

“Anyone who says reading Scripture is a teaching ministry is just making stuff up. Reading is reading and teaching is teaching, and preaching is preaching, and prophesying is prophesying, but reading is not teaching, preaching or prophesying. Women were prophets, women were apostles, women were teachers – this is all in the New Testament. That more than qualifies them for the public reading of Scripture.”

Wade Burleson:

Wade Burleson explored this issue indepth, here, in a post titled

Trifling with Subtleties while Ignoring Certainties: Turning the Gospel into a Gender Gospel

“The ancient Jews kept women in the courtyard, placed a fence around the Temple grounds lest a woman feel compelled to enter the Holy Place. The sacred rituals were performed by male priests. The sacred services were led by male priests. Modern day conservative evangelicals and liberal feminists have absolutely violated the clear and certain teachings of Jesus Christ and seem to wish to resurrect the Old economy of Temple buildings, gender priesthoods, and religious rituals. Jesus abolished all that Old economy stuff in the New agreement. The Temple of God is no longer a building, it is the soul of a believer (see I Corinthians 6:19).

The priests of God are no longer just male, they are both male and female (see Galatians 3:28). The rituals of God are no longer holy days, sacrifices, and feasts, but faith in Christ and love for God and our fellow man (see Colossians 2:16; John 13:3). The body of Jesus Christ is to make no distinctions in race, class and gender. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel that sets the captives free to serve as the Holy Spirit gifts.

To revoke the privilege of a gifted, believing woman from reading Scripture to men is to violate the clear and certain teaching of the New Testament and risk having the legalism and religious ritualism of Spirit-less religion that marked Temple worship after the days of Ezekiel and before the launch of the New Covenant.”
 

Frankly, I am becoming alarmed by what appears to be manmade rules imposed on the Gospel of grace. It sure seems that these men are fighting, tooth and nail, against the freedom found in the New Covenant and, instead, returned to the Pharisaical rules. You see, it is far easier to make up a silly rule to follow than to really love an elderly neighbor or to serve the unlovely in our fellowship. That takes work. Telling a woman to never, ever speak Scriptures from the pulpit is really, really easy. Oh, she might get mad but then you can say you are being "persecuted" for the faith. One simple statement and you are a "godly" Christian.

If this illogical gender gospel continues to be promoted by these Calvinista extremists, we will be faced with the logical consequences. Women will not be able to sing any song that has Scripture in it for fear of teaching a man. Therefore, it is imperative to find men who can sing soprano. 

The Neo-Castrati Answer

I have the solution! The church has some dubious historical experience in this regard. It appears that the Roman Catholic Church agreed, whole-heartedly, with Tim Challies. Women should be kept silent in the church. We read, in Wikipedia, here,

“Women were banned by the Pauline dictum mulieres in ecclesiis taceant ("let women keep silent in church")”

So the church, in keeping with the" righteous gender gospel,” castrated boys in order to have males sing the soprano parts.These men were called “the castrati.” (Special thanks to Headless Unicorn Guy for drawing this to our attention-12/15/11 add)

“In 1589, by the bull Cum pro nostri temporali munere, Pope Sixtus V re-organised the choir of St Peter's, Rome specifically to include castrati. Thus the castrati came to supplant both boys (whose voices broke after only a few years) and falsettists (whose voices were weaker and less reliable) from the top line in such choirs.”

“So, in the church in the 1720s and 1730s, at the height of the craze for these voices, it has been estimated that upwards of 4,000 boys were castrated annually in the service of art. Many came from poor homes and were castrated by their parents in the hope that their child might be successful and lift them from poverty.”

Problem solved!!

In the meantime, we have a different solution for women (and men) who find yourselves in churches such as these. You have been bamboozled! Get out. You will not be able to change such men. They need their rules to believe that they are “good” Christians. They will continue to seek ways to restrict the full expression of the gifts that the Holy Spirit has given to you. Find the Wade Burlesons, the Pete Briscoes and the Chaplain Mikes out there.

Finally, God delights in ALL those who love Him so much that they speak His words which have been given to women, children and men. Tim Challies, block your ears. A little girl will now speak Scripture! May God forgive her.

 

Lydia's Corner: Job 8:1-11:20 1 Corinthians 15:1-28 Psalm 38:1-22 Proverbs 21:28-29

 

Comments

Tim Challies: Can the Neo-Castrati Be Far Behind? — 64 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    One of my favorite composers, Franz Joseph Haydn, was nearly turned into a castrato but when his dad found out what was about to be done to his son he objected and rescued his son from the knife. He was probably the most famous “almost” castrato in Western musical history. According to the story recounted by Norman Lebrecht Haydn’s father grabbed a bicycle (I think) and rushed off to stop the procedure. Maybe it’s a lucky thing for Haydn his dad was a wheelwright by trade!


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    Dee,

    Bravo! Why do our brothers and sisters in Christ follow these legalistic leaders?


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Tim Challies the castrator? Oh my.


  4. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    How ironic that Matt Chandler would be dissing Internet bloggers! I DISCOVERED Matt and his Calvinist buddies via their Internet blogs! In fact, I was completely sucked into Calvinism for the most depressing six months of my life as a result of their blogs! One of the best decisions I’ve made lately was deleting all their blogs and finding new ones–like yours!


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    Kathy,

    It is ironic isn’t it? Glad you’re hanging out with us in this corner of Christendom. 🙂


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    Deb
    Frankly, I know a few folks that could produce castrati by a single, withering glance.


  7. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Any respect I once had for Challies is approaching zero. You probably know that, during the R.C. Sproul, Jr. – Ligonier scandal about five years ago, he forbad any negative comments about it on his blog. Just as he now forbids any such comments about C.J. Mahaney.


  8. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jeff,

    Five years ago, we were absolutely CLUELESS about all of this. We were just starting to hear about the young, restless, and reformed movement (from the Christianity Today article) and didn’t know anything about it.

    God woke us from our slumber in the fall of 2008. I think that’s when we first discovered Wade Burleson’s blog.

    What’s scary is that so many Christians still don’t have a clue about what’s really going on with these Calvinista leaders.


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Jeff

    When negative comments are not allowed on a blog, you need to ask the following question. What is the blogger afraid of? The answer usually has something to do, ultimately, with money. Oh, they may claim “theology” but they want the type of theology that results in books and conference speaking and a back slap from Piper, the Pope of the movement. Oh yeah, and Challies loooooved the little press he got from the “girls” over at the Girl Talk blog.


  10. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Tim Challies: “We consider this a teaching ministry, which means that it is a ministry reserved for men.”

    God: “Er…it is?”


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    To all the Calvinistas:
    May I have your attention! Please pause a moment; this won’t take long. Okay. Now, heretofore let it be known to all of you that Argo officially states that he has no problem with a person of the female persuasion teaching him the Bible. Yes, he has officially renounced his SGM authoritative and Calvinista learnin’s and decided that he, in fact, LOVES women pastors.

    Okay. That’s all.

    You can go back to your stick collecting.


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    So…….Phoebe was trusted to could carry the letter in her purse but not allowed to read it aloud to others?


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Pretty soon I won’t be able to read the scriptures to my 13 year old son–is that teaching? At what age should I stop doing that? 14–16? I read somewhere 13 is the magic age that some advocates of homeschool (Baucham) have the dads take over the schooling of the son at that point. okeeeee.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Argo

    Wasn’t it Martin Luther King Jr who said “Free, Free! Thank God I’m free at last! ?” There are many types of imprisonments. Jesus came to set us free. It is the sin of men that wants to bind us up in silly little rules. Why? I don’t think they understand the freedom we have in Jesus. These sorts of men remind me of the dwarves in The Last Battle of The Chronicles of Narnia. They were sitting in a barn and all they could see was mud and dung. Yet, the barn was the opening to the wonderful world of Narnia. They couldn’t see it because they didn’t want it. You, my friend, see Narnia!


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    Diane

    There are some who put it at the baptism of the boys. Man-made rule! Jesus came to get us to cut the baloney. He had some rather negative things to say about the Pharisees who were the kings of the rule book. We are free. The Bauchams, et al.l want to bind us up. Preach the word, sister!


  16. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    anon1
    Did you know that Jesus made a mistake? He appeared to women, first, after the Resurrection. Those poor women then had to go to the men and tell them what they had seen. Jesus made them sin. These women proclaimed the risen Christ to men! That is just not done into today’s circles. If it was, the church that allowed it would be thrown out of the SBC.


  17. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    lol Dee @ 09:05—

    A big mistake indeed.

    What can we learn from this–or is this descriptive and not prescriptive…yeah–that’s it—all the passages with women teaching or preaching…well, that’s descriptive, that’s all.


  18. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Challies is a castrated nut.

    You all know I’m not big on women pounding the pulpit, but forbidding them to read scriptures? Is this Iran?

    I’ve met some of these people who think it’s even wrong for women to teach other women the scriptures in a women’s study. They reason it’s okay for women to teach stuff concerning homemaking, but if it’s scriptural, bug off babes. Only big daddy gets that privilege.

    Yeah Diane, what about those nasty home school mothers teaching their sons from the Bible? Naughty women they! And God forbid I’m ever in a hospital and my wife reads scriptures to comfort me. What could be more disgracing to my ego than that.

    These men are dweebs.


  19. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Ted, did you mean that he is the piece removed during the surgery? or that he is the piece remaining after the surgery?


  20. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Sorry, I don’t get it. Phoebe can be trusted to handle and protect while traveling the Holy Writ but not to read it aloud in the presence of men? I suppose this means Chloe was not allowed to read it aloud, either. Even though she had “people”…those people must have been all gals. :o)

    The Islamization of Christianity.


  21. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Eagle, Some of us have been advocating for a comp Talmud for some time. Like the oral law, they can keep adding to it. Technology is perfect for that!


  22. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    anon1
    She probably was in the presence of male children who were not yet baptized.


  23. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I would also like to point out that the height of Castrati manufacture was long BEFORE anaesthetics, antiseptics, or germ theory. When you combine post-op infection survival rates under those conditions and washouts during the subsequent choral voice training from the suvivors, making a Castrato had over a 90% failure rate.

    But it kept Women from singing in the choirs!

    P.S. I’m also the guy who included the link to Castrati in Wikipedia in the IMonk thread. I also referenced Castrati manufacture in an SF story as an parallel of the early days of human cloning manufacture, with similar failure rates.


  24. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Does this open the door to squash dissent in other ways? Or will it get to a point that others are no qualified to speak. That struggling alcoholic is not pure enough to speak. Same with that guy dealing with homosexuality. Are standards going to be applied to others now and will they face the same situation? — Eagle

    Only God’s Predestined Anointed (i.e. the Truly Reformed pastor with the Perfectly-Parsed Truly Reformed Theology) will be permitted to speak, of course. All heretics/dissidents will be silenced. Just like only Party Commissars were permitted to speak at Communist Party Central Commmittee and Supreme Soviet meetings under Comrade Stalin.


  25. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Is it me…or do other guys get chills when they think or casteration? (Eagle gulps…)

    My tough-guy asshole brother would freak out at the thought of vasectomy, take that how you will.


  26. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    RE: Deb on Wed, Dec 14 2011 at 09:31 pm:

    “…Why do our brothers and sisters in Christ follow these legalistic leaders?…”

    I have long wondered about this very thing. At first I attributed it almost entirely to the dynamics of group think and birds wanting to flock together with those of like feather. These factors do play a role, no doubt about it, but I think it also has a lot to do with how humans make decisions on what they’ll believe.

    I think that these guys take the onus off of them as individuals and give them easy pat answers that they don’t have to dig for. It is far easier to point to someone or something and say “this is how I was taught to believe”. It relieves the teachee of the responsibilty and hard work of critically thinking for themselves.


  27. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I think that these guys take the onus off of them as individuals and give them easy pat answers that they don’t have to dig for. It is far easier to point to someone or something and say “this is how I was taught to believe”. It relieves the teachee of the responsibilty and hard work of critically thinking for themselves.

    i.e. “Ich habe nur meine Befehle ausgefehrt.”


  28. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    They reason it’s okay for women to teach stuff concerning homemaking, but if it’s scriptural, bug off babes. Only big daddy gets that privilege. — Ted

    While Big Daddy is being shaved by his Widdle Pwincess?


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    HUG
    I think Eagle said something about a comment at Internet Monk. If you can direct me, I will reprint it in the post and give you credit.


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    Eagle/HUG

    When you are on the road, everything blurs together. I shall give HUG credit for the castrati. However, I hold the rights to Neo-Castrati (important dig on Neo-Calvinism.)


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    My “unique way of looking at things” is a curse as often as it is a blessing. I was a kid genius and natural-talent speedreader since age 4; by the time I was 12 I had read more than most people do in a lifetime, with no idea how to fit together or process all that raw information. Including raw information that shouldn’t have been processed until “all my bingo-balls were out of the draw-tank”. Plus, I “grew up Martian”, an outsider always looking in at these strange humans.

    Result: Any stimulus or reference can start a random cascade of all this “connected” information and obscure references, from the Bible to Aliester Crowley to My Little Pony, all at once, all flooding in together. THAT’s the source of my “unique way of looking at things.”

    P.S. Wesley Crusher and Doogie Houser are the FANTASY of the Kid Genius. Dallas Egbert III (the steam-tunnel kid from the late Seventies/early Eighties) is much more the reality.


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    HUG/Eagle
    Credit is now in place in post!


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    HUG
    Since the series has long ended, what do you think Wesley Crusher is doing our there in the universe?


  34. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Tim Challies better have a word with Tim Keller of the PCA – listen to his [Tim’s] sermons, women do the scripture reading all the time.

    Cooky. Notice Challies’ SGMish phrase in the next paragraph where he states, “I’m hoping this may serve you as you consider reading Scripture in a public setting.”

    Why go out of your way to make such a big deal about an extremely secondary issue like who gets to read Scripture in a worship service? It’s like he wants to be known for what he won’t let women do.


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    Great “observation” Matt! Couldn’t resist..


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    Matt: “It’s like he wants to be known for what he won’t let women do.”

    Perhaps dealing with the ‘hard’ issues in church (such as striping away God-given liberties from women?) has become some sort of badge of honor or courage among these men?
    Perhaps they think being ‘counter culture’ and restrictive is some sort of “Zeal of Phinehas” move to turn away some perceived wrath of God?
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+25&version=NASB


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    Why are these guys always hoping to “serve us in some way” anyway? When they qualify something they say with that statement it sounds so “nice” and even “comforting.” It automatically makes you think that what was proposed is good and excellent and helpful, but, in reality, it often makes you NOT think about what was actually said. It makes me suspicious when I hear that phase – yuck!

    On top of that, serving is usually a physical serving in my world. Now if they wanted to serve by doing the laundry or making a meal, how about cleaning the toilets – that would be great. But no – they just seem to want to serve me by telling me what I can and can’t do. I guess they’re “serving me” by letting me know how I should follow the letter of “their” law. Then I’ll be even more holy in their eyes I suppose! (Someone needs to tell them that no one can add to what Jesus did for me – PLEASE!)

    Jesus just isn’t enough for these guys anymore it seems. They keep having what they think are great and new revelations of how the scripture should be interpreted and they so desparately want to get everything right. Jesus was not concerned about how the holy law was read! He said, “When you see me, you have seen the Father.” He is the Word in the flesh. Some of these leaders(?) are becoming like pharisees. The bible and how it is handled is becoming an idol!? Is that possible?

    end of rant


  38. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I was trying to figure out what Tim Challies had to do with Rush Limbaugh, but then I realized my error.

    On a non-tangential note, this story is quite strange. So my dear, sweet grandmother teaching me Bible stories after kindergarten was a sinful act? News to me…


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    Former Baptist
    I, too, thought of that when I wrote this story. MahaRushie has been using this term since Bill Clinton was in office.


  40. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    The statement you quoted about the ministry reserved for men made me weep with a deep and ancient ache.

    I absolutely loved your closing comments and the precious video of that beautiful little girl.

    Blessings to you.


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    From a “mainline” Protestant perspective… women (or, in some cases, lay people) reading Scripture in church was a big deal 45+ years ago.

    I think a lot of evangelicals/fundies get upset about “mainline” churches because they see them as what they will be like if/when they permit certain changes.

    Which is awfully sad.


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    Ted S.

    You got that right! I read that post by Tim Challies yesterday, along with the comments. Rest assured, we will be editorializing on Driscoll’s book in the New Year.


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    There is a certain irony with ministers who seek to influence beyond their own church and do so using the internet criticizing those who critique them using the internet.


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    Great article. It is truly sad to see people like Challies promote such deeply harmful lies about God’s Word. Christ came to set His people free, all of them, not just the men. Yet they promote a gospel in which women who were free under the old covenant are now in deeper bondage under the new covenant that is meant to free all.

    May I invite you over to our forums at http://www.equalitycentral.com/forum

    We’d love to dialogue with both of you.


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    Thanks for the invite, TL! We will definitely chime in.

    Blessings!


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    P. S. I’m a grandmother, who teaches the Word of God regularly to any men and women who attend our Bible Studies, and I hope to still be teaching when I hit 90! Remember, women generally live longer than men so its wise to have more women teaching and preaching. 🙂


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    dee,

    “When negative comments are not allowed on a blog, you need to ask the following question. What is the blogger afraid of? The answer usually has something to do, ultimately, with money. Oh, they may claim “theology” but they want the type of theology that results in books and conference speaking and a back slap from Piper, the Pope of the movement. Oh yeah, and Challies loooooved the little press he got from the “girls” over at the Girl Talk blog.”

    I, sadly, agree. But I think that if money were not an issue, they would still impose these bans. They probably just can’t bear to see their pals being maligned on their blogs, and, of course, they don’t want to risk losing their friendship, and not just for monetary reasons. Also, maybe they see themselves as comrades uniting for a cause, for the sake of which they are absolutely loyal to each other. When, of course, they should only be loyal to God.

    In any case, they should just suck it up and allow people to comment, and then comment on the comments. It’s not like members of their family were being criticized. Or maybe it is.

    I’ll check out what TWW wrote about the Girl Talk blog and Challies.


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    HUG
    Since the series has long ended, what do you think Wesley Crusher is doing out there in the universe?

    Last I heard (from that episode I caught on a business trip to Nawlins years ago), he Ascended into Godhood with the help of an Indian Shaman (i.e. fah-shionable Hollywood Spirituality of the time) and is presumably doing whatever Transcendentals/Ascended Gods do. Maybe he’s the latest member of the Q Continuum or something.

    Now my mental landscape involves Equestria instead of The Federation. Much better on the brain cells.


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    TL
    Thank you for letting us know about your forum. We will visit.


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    Jeff
    “A: for effort of making like duck, looking calm on the surface but paddling furiously under the water?


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    From Challies…
    “He goes on to ground this in God’s Creation ordinance. “For Adam was formed first, then Eve…””

    I’m always amazed at the tendency of so many gender hierarchalists to take a simple observation (possibly even a correction of false gnostic teachings) that the first human wasn’t deceived into sinning while the woman was, into some kind of doctrinal ordinance. The facts of what God did cannot be an ordinance or rule. No one else gets to do what God did. Its a done deal! Unless of course they are trying to suggest that all men should deliberately sin and then blame the women in their lives as Adam did. I mean Challies cannot demand that women be deceived, it’s not all that easy to deceive oneself. Although Challies might be an exception.

    Sorry that’s a bit cheeky, too much coffee this morning. 🙂


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    Quick question, isn’t Wade Burleson Reformed? I read a little of his blog once and thought he was, but I might be mistaken.


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    Kathy,

    Yes, Wade Burleson is Reformed, but he is definitely not a Calvinista. There is a HUGE difference!


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    Kathy
    Yes, but in a good way. He is NOT a Calvinista and allows people with differing views to teach in Emmanuel.


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    Jesus just isn’t enough for these guys anymore it seems. They keep having what they think are great and new revelations of how the scripture should be interpreted and they so desparately want to get everything right. — Bridget2

    Isn’t there a curse in the Book of Revelation for “those who add to the words of this book”?

    In my church (RCC) “private revelations” are permitted, but are not binding on anyone other than the one who had the revelation. And they’re usually checked against precedent (both Bible and Tradition/Institutional Memory) for validity/plausibility, on the grounds that God should not contradict himself.


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    Thanks for answering my question! I don’t guess I know the difference between the words “Reformed” and “Calvinist.” Perhaps I have mistakenly written off some Reformed people by painting them with the same brush as Piper, Driscoll & Company??? I hope you’ll do a post about the difference sometime, or steer me to someplace you have written about that in the past. I need to get educated on this!


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    It’s a little disconcerting to read this sort of thing with Matt Chandler’s name attached to it; of all of the YRR guys, he’s the one that I hold out the most hope for. Whatever his other flaws may be, Chandler at least sincerely tries to deal honestly with his text – by the same token, he is sometimes sincerely wrong about the text, but at least he’s trying, which is more than I can say about the vast majority of the YRR guys out there.

    Here’s hoping that the Lord is able to soften his heart…

  58. Pingback: Link-o-rama 36 | A Quiet Simple Life


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    The “Neo-Castrati”? Now if there was ever anything that I thought could only be done ONCE!


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    Bounded
    How are you? I had a few laughs thinking about the Neo-Castrati. i do have an odd sense of humor.


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    I agree with the commentary about the craziness of limiting scripture reading to men. However, I still can’t get past having a “Scripture Reading Ministry.” In the life of any true believer, that is akin to having a “Breathing Ministry.” He goes on to talk about how you need to prepare to read. Gosh, I didn’t know reading a passage was this difficult. I wonder if the apostle Paul spent time training people on how to PERFORM the reading of the scriptures? I wonder if Jesus would have cared about the performance, or if he would have praised the meek one who stuttered and stumbled their way through the reading?