Robert Schuller – Voted Off the Board at the Behest of His Own Daughters?

“A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.” Oscar Wilde
 

 

Crystal Cathedral

 

 

 

Well, it looks like the Reverend Robert Schuller’s legacy at the Crystal Cathedral has been shattered.

 

According to an article in the Orange County Register,

 

“The Rev. Robert H. Schuller, who started his ministry in an Orange drive-in theater more than five decades ago, has been voted off the board of Crystal Cathedral Ministries, which has been torn apart by debt and familial disharmony for the last several years.”

 

The July 3rd OC Register article includes the following:

 

“The church has not released information about the board meeting where Schuller, 84, was ousted, but his son Robert A. Schuller, who was himself forced out of the cathedral by his sisters and brothers-in-law three years ago, confirmed it Sunday.

He said his father wanted to enlarge the board, which was not received well by the others. ‘A majority of that board consists of paid employees of the church and that's a serious conflict of interest,’” Robert A. Schuller said.”

 

However, once the news leaked, a denial was soon to follow. An L.A. Times headline “Crystal Cathedral denies reports of Schuller’s Ouster from Board” contradicted the claim that the senior Schuller was out.

 

Here’s how that news was conveyed:

“’He [Robert H. Schuller] was not voted off the board,’ said John Charles, the Garden Grove church spokesman. ‘He is still board chairman emeritus.’

 

The church released its statement a day after Schuller’s son, Robert Anthony Schuller, said his 84-year-old father had been ousted because he had proposed adding new members to the board.


“Recently, the board of directors of Crystal Cathedral Ministries voted to change Dr. Schuller's position from that of a voting board member to the honorary Chairman of the Board Emeritus, a non-voting position,” the statement read…

 

The L.A. Times article concludes with this statement:


"Charles said the reports of the board ousting Robert H. Schuller were inaccurate. "I think it's hearsay,” he said. “As far as I know, it's not true.”

 

So the founder of the Crystal Cathedral now holds a NON-VOTING position on the board? That certainly sounds like an ouster to us!

 

Fox News featured a news story that indicates the dire state of the Crystal Cathedral. Here’s an excerpt:

“…the church's financial travails, including a significant drop in donations and dwindling membership, culminated in its filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The church still owes about $7.5 million to unsecured creditors, many of whom are vendors for the cathedral's "Glory of Christmas" pageant. According to a reorganization plan filed by the church last month, they have an offer from Irvine, Calif., developer, Greenlaw Partners LLC, to buy the core buildings for $46 million.

Robert H. Schuller has been at odds with his daughters over how they have chosen to run the church. The cathedral recently switched over from a traditional worship format to a Gospel-style choir — much to the chagrin of many long-time members. Sheila Schuller Coleman also required choir members to sign a covenant acknowledging Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and the belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

The older Schuller publicly lashed out at the contract saying everyone is welcome in the church. Phillip Johnson, the architect who constructed the cathedral's iconic glass sanctuary, was an openly gay man.”

 

There is little doubt that the Crystal Cathedral board has likely had some heated discussions over these controversial issues.  And just yesterday Bloomberg News reported that the Crystal Cathedral Ministries received two bids to buy the campus out of bankruptcy, according to court filings by its creditors.

 

This news service confirmed the following:


“Chapman University and Greenlaw Acquisitions LLC both offered $46 million to purchase the 30-acre campus in Orange County, California, and lease back part of the property to the church so it can continue operating, the official committee of unsecured creditors said in papers filed today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Santa Ana, California.

The church plans to sell the campus in a court-supervised auction with Greenlaw as the initial bidder, said Marc J. Winthrop, Crystal Cathedral’s attorney.”

 

Attorney Winthrop indicated that the final decision of a buyer is “a long way off” because they a number of potential bidders are interested.

 

Bloomberg does shed some light on the financial dealings of the church. The article states:


“Crystal Cathedral has proposed a reorganization that would use cash from the proposed $46 million sale to repay a bank loan of about $33.3 million in full and pay lower-ranking creditors over two years.

The Garden Grove, California-based church, known for its television show “The Hour of Power,” listed assets and debts of $50 million to $100 million each in Chapter 11 documents filed in October. The church estimates its congregation has 10,000 members.”

 

Perhaps in the weeks and months to come, we will get a crystal clear picture of what indeed is happening within the walls of the Crystal Cathedral. Also, we are breathlessly awaiting an answer to the question: How did Sheila decide which two questions to put in her covenant requirements?

 

 

Lydia's Corner:       2 Samuel 9:1-11:27       John 15:1-27       Psalm 119:49-64       Proverbs 16:1-3

Comments

Robert Schuller – Voted Off the Board at the Behest of His Own Daughters? — 15 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    It would be an interesting read if an investigative writer tackled the story of the Schuller family and he or she had access to inside information. I found a 1990 article which stated problems with the now well known nepotism, finances etc. The family dysfunction is probably not unlike any high performance high needs success driven one.

    This former mega church and it’s cult of personality may be a mirror to what will happen to other personality centred mega ministries despite leadership prostrations otherwise.

    I watched last weeks Hour of Power, haven’t bothered in years and they have this ‘praise team.’

    Pathetic. Horrid. After years of a top notch professional music program, going from a 250 voice choir and well lead orchestra to a few trained members (15) and the untrained praise team, the music was, frankly, nasty. The music doesn’t fit the venue or the congregation. The Cathedral has top notch audio equipment which served the tv taping of the choir and orchestra well. But even top notch equipment can’t mask the mediocre praise group performance.

    The crowd shots are ridiculously tight – experienced camera people can’t hide the emptiness.
    At the best of times the 10 thousand members has been said to be an exaggeration, Schuller and the building drew a lot of visitors.

    The Catholic Diocese is looking at putting in a bid for rental of the grounds etc. also.

    The Spanish service at the Cathedral is packed, but they don’t have the finances to support the money pit.
    No thinking person should have signed that covenant. Thankfully the majority didn’t, they left.

    Sheila Coleman (daughter) who denies a non-voting position on the board is a big deal said that, “Dad will continue to provide leadership for this ministry through me for as long as possible…”

    That is control freak damage control talk, and she isn’t kidding anyone.

    Why don’t they put this church out of it’s misery?


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    “The church has not released information about the board meeting where Schuller, 84, was ousted, …?

    “Sheila Coleman (daughter) who denies a non-voting position on the board is a big deal said that, “Dad will continue to provide leadership for this ministry through me for as long as possible…”

    “That is control freak damage control talk, and she isn’t kidding anyone.”

    It sure sounds like a mess. But at the end of the day should any 84 year old person be running a multi-million dollar operation? I know this will sound harsh to some but after being around my parents generation with them in their late 70s and 80s, how to deal with financial issues seems to be one of the first issues with older age. This being an early sign of gradually fading mental abilities or maybe they get stuck in a rut from better times 20 or 40 years ago or whatever. But I see a lack of financial clarity in many people of this age.

    Now Schuller may not be having any issues with this but then again are his supporters supporting him based on the past or based on how he will handle the future? I suspect the former.

    Of course this means all these kids we are talking about are all likely in their 50s and 60s. Where this “young” blood in all of this? You know those young whipper snappers in their 30s and 40s?


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    I get the skeptisism about the leadership of this big megachurch. Many of these types of churches loose site of what they should be doing with the lavish buildings and such. Services are more “production” than “service”. What I don’t get is the dustup over the changes to the worship format or asking people to confirm they are Christians when they participate in a church ministry.
    Believe me the worship ministry is as much a Ministry as a youth, young adult or pastoral ministry. You wouldn’t want a non-Christian as a youth group leader or pastor would you? You might want to ensure everyone that’s involved is a Christian and is like minded (See Phillipians 2:2 or 2 Peter 3:8) with the thinking of the Church on important topics.

    As to worship formats; the worship format is ALWAYS a bone of contention among believers. Some (usually the older folks) want the traditional stuff and some (usually the younger crowd) want to hear the contemporary stuff. I’ll ask this. Does anyone think God cares about the style of the music that it used to praise and worship him? As long as the music is reverent and leads others to enter into worship I say play whatever you gotta play. That could be anything from Handel to Third Day. (disclaimer: I serve in a church worship ministry and have been doing so for many years.)


  4. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “Pathetic. Horrid. After years of a top notch professional music program, going from a 250 voice choir and well lead orchestra to a few trained members (15) and the untrained praise team, the music was, frankly, nasty. The music doesn’t fit the venue or the congregation. ”

    Most of the choir and orchestra were likely paid positions. Without the money they had to go.


  5. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Yes,the musicians were paid, and hadn’t been paid for awhile so they went. The praise team each gets $125.00/service. The objections were not to being behind in payment, they were to the treatment of the music leadership. The leaders are world known, they don’t need the grief. Certainly the orchestra and choir didn’t.

    “…asking people to confirm they are Christians when they participate in a church ministry.”

    That was not what was asked, it went far beyond that. No Christian should sign a loyalty and obedience oath to leadership who are not even ordained. I can’t imagine why anyone would sign it even if the ministerial staff was ordained.

    The two daughters are not ordained – rumours are they are being mentored weekly by a female self appointed pastor from Texas; Kirbyjon Caldwell’s wife. She has an engineering degree. While the Caldwells are famous mega church UMC, melding the two denominational differences is foolish. So she is the wife of a minister, and the daughters have a famous father. Doesn’t mean she is qualified to mentor these daughters, or that they are qualified to lead.

    This is the Reformed Church, it is to be governed a certain way – with a consistory (senior pastor, elder and deacon) chosen by the congregation. When the two daughters took over, all they had known was nepotism and they chucked the rules for dictatorship. The congregation has no say.

    I agree an 84 year old doesn’t need to be handling mega corporation finances. Schuller proved to be spectacularly bad at it for years.
    Not the point. The daughters are lying to themselves and what is left of the congregation.
    Schuller Sr. hasn’t been senior pastor since 2006, and Sheila and Gretchen are not qualified by any stretch of the imagination. The Reformed Church commissioned Sheila, they’ll have to live with that decision. They can plead extenuating circumstances all they want. It doesn’t change lying.

    Have a look at the July 4th service and tell me where the young people are. They won’t show up there, this church needs to acknowledge it’s over – it’s pathetic watching an older congregation trying to cope with a mediocre praise team. It’s about way more than a change in music style.

    Jerry – I was a music major, I couldn’t care less if the orchestra or choir leader is a Christian. I care that they know how to do their job. I’d rather have a trained atheist leading the church orchestra and choir than an untrained Christian any day. In a perfect world a trained and qualified Christian would be nice. “You wouldn’t want a non-Christian as a youth group leader or pastor would you?” That is a false equivalency.

    Read up on the men who led the Crystal Cathedral music program.
    I’m not putting anyone’s worship down, nor am I negating change – go see for yourself.

    If there are Schuller supporters left, they need to get a clue and let go, it’s an ongoing mess and what it was is over.


  6. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Bene,

    uoi said ” I’d rather have a trained atheist leading the church orchestra and choir than an untrained Christian any day”

    Hang on I’m breaking out my high school trumpet..


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    Karl

    No, no, in the name of all that is decent no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    Bene
    Thank you for all of the information. If you check under categories you will see that we have done more on this crowd. I feel very bad fo Sneezy the camel who has not been paid either.

    PS How do you know all of this?

    Here is a link.
    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/10/29/robert-schuller-bankrupt-in-more-ways-than-one/


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “I’d rather have a trained atheist leading the church orchestra and choir than an untrained Christian any day. ”

    On this I disagree big time. Worship is NOT a production. Or at least it should not be. When it is I have to go elsewhere if possible.


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    Karl:

    Wait, I’ll get my clarinet<;^)

    Dee: Thanks, I'll get caught up. I've followed the Schuller drama for a couple of years and got obsessively interested again when Robert A showed up on 100 Huntley Street (a Cdn religious show) acting all casual. I figured he was up for a business meeting because the interview was not polished. He was. So I've been following his networks, his Cdn angle and following the demise of the Crystal Cathedral. It's a big deal when a mega church shatters publicly. There are former members blogging out their grief and commenting online.

    I really do wish an investigative writer would tackle this.

    Worship is mostly a production Lynn, and there is nothing unbiblical in saying so. Being a professional or being led by a professional who knows how to draw the best out of the musicians, music and congregation doesn't negate worship for me at all. Shoot, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir can move me and help me worship and so can the Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles when they do sacred music.
    To each his/her own, people have different tolerance levels. I find nothing glorifying or edifying with a bad worship team.

    Have a look at the Hour of Power – you may disagree with me and that's okay.


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Excellent post Dee, well done.

    Robert A has reconciled with Robert H btw, according to Robert A.


  12. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “Worship is mostly a production Lynn, and there is nothing unbiblical in saying so. Being a professional or being led by a professional who knows how to draw the best out of the musicians, music and congregation doesn’t negate worship for me at all. Shoot, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir can move me and help me worship and so can the Gay Men’s Chorus of Los Angeles when they do sacred music.”

    I agree they can be moving. But are we after an emotional high or trying to get closer to Christ? I’d rather be led by the sincere but off key than the polished but don’t give a d*** about their message except for their paycheck. If that is what we want why not get an atheist preacher who can deliver a well prepared sermon for a fee?


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    BeneD

    If you break out the clarinet and play along with Karl, I am heading for the hills! 😉

    So, the two Roberts have reconciled? Adversity can lead to alliances-us against them mentality.Interesting.

    I have not read any blogs on those who have been hurt by this mess. Any suggestions? Of course I’ll google. I really like to understand the human angle of these problems. That is what got me interested in Sovereign Grace Ministries and CJ Mahaney. So many people speaking about such pain was compelling and caused me to want to go to bat for them.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lynn

    Great comment: “If that is what we want why not get an atheist preacher who can deliver a well prepared sermon for a fee?” After a few I have heard, however, I think it might work to have a person get up and read CS Lewis than listen to nonsense.

    The music thing is more difficult. I see both sides of the argument-my husband was music major (took science courses on the side). Both of his parents were teachers and professional singers but were not particularly faithful. I would listen to them sing in a church service and find something lacking in their pitch perfect rendition.

    On the other hand, I have been deeply moved by other large choirs that do not come at it from a religious pattern and I sense God in the beauty of their performance. I see God in spite of them.


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Bene D: I guess I must take a completely different view of worship. Worship is WAYYY! more than just singing songs the same way preaching or teaching kids is WAAAYYY! more than just speaking words. You are quite litteraly guiding people in their commune with God. That’s a huge responsibility and it takes a Christian servants heart to do it. Otherwise it’s just a performance or a sing along. That’s not Worship at least by my definition. I’ll grant you that a beautifully played or performed piece of music can move me and make my appreciate God’s gift of music BUT that is not the same as worship. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.