“Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.” Lenny Bruce
This week begins a new chapter in The Wartburg Watch. We found that our anonymity restricted our ability to look at the Christian faith in a more comprehensive fashion. For example, we hope to bring our readers some insightful interviews with people who impact the faith. We would like to talk with people who have left Christianity and have started blogs and organizations that openly oppose the faith. It is difficult to ask such people for an interview if we cannot be open about our identities.
We also hope to talk with some well-known Christians who are effectively impacting the world for Christ. Through our activities, we have come into contact with some well-known individuals who would be willing to talk with us. However, few people want to speak, on record, with an anonymous individual.
As we have conducted TWW research, we have contacted organizations such as ECFA to ask for clarification on certain policies and decisions. On these occasions we have used our true names in order to openly ask questions.
In our local community, most people already know who we are. We have little doubt that they are sharing our names and other pertinent information with some of the people we have discussed on this site. Both of us have served on the Community Panel of the local newspaper and have even had an editorial written about us. We are frequent contributors to “Letters to the Editor” and have some community recognition because of these activities.
This decision in no way changes our opinion that anonymity is sometimes necessary. We believe that it offers some freedom for individuals to share their concerns while at the same time allowing the leaders in churches to hear unvarnished personal accounts that may bring insight that is not easily obtained.
Yes, there are some drawbacks to anonymity. Sometimes, an individual might have a “bone to pick” with a particular church or individual. However, the reality exists that there are many people who have become disaffected by the church in America and so mistrust the institution that anonymity is the only way that they will share their experiences.
In June of this year, Dr Jon posted his thoughts on blogging and the church. Here is the link.
Here are three points worth reiterating.
1.“All Christians seek some degree of approval and validation from their church, or at least fair treatment when problems arise. After all, the local church is supposed to reflect the love of Christ. But far too many churches have attempted to shoot the messenger instead of dealing with the problem. That sort of inappropriate behavior engenders concern within the larger body of Christ and leads to healthy discussion on blogs like TWW”.
Translation: There are hurting people who have been deeply wounded by the church. Trust takes time to develop. TWW provides a safe place in which the individual hurt by the church and its leadership can heal and find a place of acceptance. Once the church stomps on a person, why should they get stomped on again?
Here are a couple of comments by those who claim that churches within Sovereign Grace Ministries hurt them. These comments, and many others like them, may be found at sgmrefuge.com. Pay attention to the pain of these writers.
“What do we fear? We fear man. And the repercussions of confronting pastoral authority. If you’ve ever worked a job under a boss who is a “micro manager,” maybe you can feel the vibe. If you’ve ever sat in a session with an SGM pastor (or worse yet with more than one at the same time), they may listen politely as you air your concerns or ask your questions. And then the spotlight is on you, your heart, your motives, your sin, your lack of trust in ‘biblical authority’ (implying your lack of trust in God). And after a few minutes of this, you wonder why you came through the door in the first place.”
“SGM leadership and laity penalizes families for the “questionable” or “rebellious” actions of one member/ex-member. This is not an irrational fear…I’ve seen it happen, and many here will confirm this. So my anonymous ID, while not so anonymous in some realms, is an attempt to protect others…not myself.
Many fear their relatives who are employed by SGM or SGM churches “fear” their relatives will lose jobs, be unnecessarily penalized or watched closely because of associations and blood ties to us so-called poisonous bloggers.This is obscene and shouldn’t happen. Why?
Because the main critic of the use of anonymous IDs is SGM, and SGM is the organization who created an environment that necessitates it.”
“I am so sick and tired of SGM or any organization/denomination creating the very scenarios that they eventually deem necessary to villify, condemn, and criticize (dare I say gossip and slander about?) in the strongest of terms, which gives birth to a state of fear.”
“And some folks make for the exit after one or two such encounters. The rest of us (me included) start trying to figure out what we can do to be accepted in their eyes again, because we’re equating their approval of us with God’s acceptance of us. It all becomes about pleasing men, performing the right behavior, acting humble or whatever has been demanded of you in that list of XYZ to be back in His (and more importantly, THEIR) good graces. And God forbid you be labeled “unteachable and proud,” as there will be nothing you can do to escape that trap. Any future concern you may want to bring will be filtered through the lens of your pride and unteachability and summarily dismissed.”
2. “Exposure of church problems is a necessary first step in understanding who we are as Christ’s body. Time to be honest and open with each other inside the church. Time to see the realities of spiritual abuse, church conflict, and hyper-authoritarianism among evangelical institutions.”
Elaboration: There are many people out there who actually believe that church leadership always treats people in a Godly manner, even when the leadership is clearly abusive. We at TWW have seen the underbelly of the church and believe that awful things can actually happen in the church. Even well-known leaders are sinners and can cause harm in the body of Christ.
3. “Regrettably, far too many church leaders need to be reminded that they are not "above the law". Too many pastors need to re-learn what their mothers taught them… that it is bad (and sometimes unlawful) to lie, cheat, or steal.”
Some pastors and church leaders can be thin skinned and will go to great lengths to silence opposition. As the little guy in the pew silently looks on, these types of leaders provide an example of the treatment that he can expect when he attempts to confront problems in his church. One only has to look at the case of FBC Jax Watchdog how scary a church leader can be.
The local sheriff’s office and state attorney’s office were used to “out” a blogger The Dog has been called a “sociopath” by his own pastor in a Jacksonville newspaper! He and his wife were banned from church property. How many people are willing to risk this sort of response?
As mentioned by one writer above, most people have a family to consider. There is a situation to which we are privy in which a youth leader “defriended” the children of parents who had raised concerns about a serious issue in the church. The children of elders were overheard telling other children that these parents were liars and the children were shunned by a group of kids with whom they had grown up.
Fear of retribution is regrettably not limited to the secular world. Today’s American church has embraced the secular values of wealth, power and numbers. The rich become the elders and often give wealth to their pastor. Why would a pastor insult a group of people who are giving him the American dream-big house, big salary, fancy vacations, etc.? Power is considered a good thing and any threat to power is responded to with ruthless abandon.
Why should a congregant even consider that her pastor, who is wealthy, adored by important people and “living the dream,” would respond in a Christian as opposed to an American “Greed is good” way? In fact, I would think that it is wiser to assume that a big time pastor would not respond in the manner of a certain First Century Rabbi.
A non-Christian family member once told me that I was arrogant to assume that the rest of the world should accept an American faith (meaning Christianity.) At the time I retorted, “I thought Christianity was a Middle Eastern faith.” Although I was right, I now wonder if I was wrong. Today’s post evangelical church in America little resembles the early church.
I was struck by a comment I received on the article I wrote on David Platt.
“I think you ladies are way off on this. I don’t think Driscoll is upset in any way at either Chan or Platt. I think he is trying to understand Chan and his decision. And he is not alone in that regard. Lots of people don’t really understand why Chan is doing what he is doing (or not doing). And as several of you commentators have pointed out, we need to be careful to not exchange one sin (materialism) for another (legalism and asceticism).”
I responded to him.
“I agree that legalism can be as much a trap as materialism. But, I do not think that the church in America has to worry about people taking up vows of poverty anytime soon. I can count on one hand people who have deliberately given up their lifestyle to live among the poor. On the other hand, there are not enough stars in the sky to count the number of American Christian who have pursued the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
After seeing the well-heeled folks at his church, I don’t think he will need to worry about the rush to join him in the ghetto. Asceticism? Radicalism? In the American church? Those are two problems that I don’t think we should loose sleep over.
Perhaps you are right that Driscoll is merely trying to understand Chan’s decision. If so, he needs some lessons in learning new facial expressions because his sure conveyed disapproval.
Of course few understand what Chan is doing. The American church has made a God out of rich and large churches with fancy coffee bars. Most of these guys understand FBC-Dallas’s attempt to build a $120 million addition without batting an eye. But they can’t understand giving up a great lifestyle and living amongst the oppressed and poor. That just isn’t done here in America.”
As our last post on Matt Chandler proved, some pastors cannot rise above pettiness. They are supposed to be role models of love, kindness, and patience. They have abdicated such a role and taken on the persona of a pastor bully. Many of them remind me of the screaming chef, Gordon Ramsey, who throws a tantrum when his trainees don’t get it right. Until certain pastors start acting like the Man from Galilee, I think that many people are very wise in critiquing the church in an anonymous fashion.
I had a personal experience of two pastors in two different churches, who responded very differently to negative concerns. One, Pete Briscoe, responded in a Godly manner and handled a sticky situation impeccably. From beginning to end, he demonstrated a pastor’s love and concern for the people in his church.
Until recently, I thought that was the way that all pastors acted-no threats, no posturing, no attorneys, just Biblical compassion. However, I learned differently. Another pastor responded like a bully-no compassion, much posturing and lots of attorneys. I wised up quick.
Try to find a pastor like Pete Briscoe. You’ll know it when you find him. The first time I spoke with him, he asked if we knew a certain man at Baylor Hospital in Dallas. When we said, “No”, we braced ourselves for the typical response of something like “Well, he is the head of such and such foundation and is my personal friend.” Pete said, “He is one of the janitors over there and he has profoundly affected many people with his witness.” Now that's a pastor!
For those who have pastors like Mac Brunson, Paige Patterson, Mark Driscoll and many, many others that we have written about on this blog, be careful. Protect yourself. These guys are no different than any other bully on the playground.
It’s OK to be anonymous. Tell your stories. The church in America needs to hear them. Know this. You have a friend in us. You have reached the Fellowship of the Wounded and we are here for you. This is one place that you will never be referred to as “narcissistic zeroes.” Here you will be called “friend.”
New Feature- “Read Your Bible”
Starting Monday, we will begin posting suggested Bible reading that, if followed, will get you through the Bible in one year. This feature is dedicated to Lydia, a frequent commenter and Bible whiz who exhorts all of us to read our Bible to learn the truth for ourselves. We found an excellent resource, available online, that has two suggested formats. You can read these verses online at One Year Bible.
Interestingly, it has a second option so that you can read the Bible through in a chronological fashion. On the site, you will find an easy link to all of the passages so you can click directly to the passages. Or, you can just read the passages in your own favorite translation. Here is the link if you are interested.
http://www.oneyearbibleonline.com/
The One Year Bible daily reading plan consists of passages from the Old Testament, New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs. This arrangement of Scripture brings variety and a fresh approach to each day's 15-minute reading, while providing a clear understanding of the Bible's larger message. No other "through the bible" plan presents the entire bible in such a user-friendly format. Simply select the month and date to link to the passages for the day.
The One Year Chronological Bible reading plan contains the entire text of the bible arranged in the order the events actually occurred. This unique viewpoint allows you to read the whole Bible as a single story and to see the unfolding of God's plan in history.
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Hmmm… no comments yet. I think everyone’s just shocked you’re not actually a pair of teenage boys holed up in your parents’ basements. Isn’t that the stereotype?
http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2010/09/bloggers-who-live-with-their-mother-and.html
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not a stepford
You forgot about the “wearing your house robe” part. Today I am wearing a pair of cute black shorts and a lime green top! However, in my effort to bring glamor both to the church and to blogosphere, I have a couple of absolutely adorable house robes-one in red gingham lined in contrasting polka dots and a pastel striped terry robe made of 100% Egyptian cotton.
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I think that it is actually good that you guys are no longer anonymous. It gives your readers additonal context which can be helpful in discussing issues. The fact that some people will try to use the disclosure of your names against you is to their shame.
I comment on blogs mainly in either an anonymous way or using my first name only. I don’t do so out of fear per se. If I were truly afraid, I would not comment on blogs at all. People who want to work to find out who I am can obviously do so.
I comment anonymously or semi anonymously to keep inappropriate associations being made between my comments and thoughts and my church, friends or family. They don’t need to be brought into debates about things, especially when they don’t blog or could care less about much of what goes on in the blog world.
Look forward to more good discussions. Keep up your work.
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notastepfordsheep,
Love your comment! I seem to recall that several years ago Eric Simmons (SGM) made a remark about guys in their underwear blogging in the basement. It appears leaders like Kevin Ezzell are borrowing his quip and embellishing…
BTW, I rarely blog in a housecoat, which I usually call a robe. That sounds more Biblical to me.
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Ladies, I am so blessed by your ministry! Thanks for researching and writing your much-informing articles and then letting anyone comment or rebuke your thoughts. It is a wonderful opportunity for me to discuss tertiary issues with strangers. 😛
I had someone just the other day ask me what I thought about women being elders, because her friend went to a non-denom church and was an elder. Oh the horrors! I asked my friend if she thought her elder friend was a personal disciple of Jesus. Of course, she said. I then told her that she and her friend could argue for the rest of their lives about the issue OR they could agree to disagree on this secondary issue and focus on their common beliefs – that we need to share the Gospel with a lost world! I don’t think I would have been able to say that until just recently, after reading your blog and researching things on my own. So, anyway, thanks for opening my eyes to what is really important. 😀
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“This feature is dedicated to Lydia, a frequent commenter and Bible whiz who exhorts all of us to read our Bible to learn the truth for ourselves. We found an excellent resource, available online, that has two suggested formats. You can read these verses online at One Year Bible.”
I am speechless (for once) and honored. But it is the ONLY way to true reconcilation with God. Katherine Bushnell asked her readers in “God’s Word to Women” to approach the Word as if they were pagans reading it for the first time. This is a good place to start. Ask God to remove your man made filters and get reading! Doing this, God showed me something, ironically in the OT, that changed my entire view of HIM.
I also recommend an interlinear: Scipture4all.
Which is a free download. They do ask for donations.
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Trinity Watcher
Thank you so much for your kind words and poignant example. We are grateful you hand around with us.
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I am so pleased. I ran into this blog yesterday.
*smack* I hope you didn’t feel it – and as far as I can tell I have no obvious bruising. But I am excited, very excited by what I am reading here.
Honest discourse?
Encouraging Bible reading?
Wit and humor?
I look forward to future posts. Thanks for all your hard work and honesty.
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Hiho
Welcome! We look forward to your input.
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Ditto on what Dee said, Hiho!
Loved your comment.
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Deb and Dee – thanks for all you do, and for the Christian friendship you’ve shown me and my wife over the past year or so. Keep up the great work.
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I thought that was you!
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Ditto to Tom R’s comment.
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Tom
It has been wonderful being part of the Tom R fan club. You are an inspiration to all of us.
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ARCE
I have been profoundly affected by your thoughts and your kindness. You make me think beyond my preconceived ideas. Thank you for your friendship.
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Junkster
I was testing out our new email system and tried sending you an email in response to an old email. Did you get it? Nothing like responding 2 months late but our friend, Not a Stepford, knows all about my proclivities.
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Tom R. and ARCE,
Ditto on Dee’s comments. As my grown daughters would say, you guys ROCK! Thanks for your loyalty and genuine friendship.
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Yup, got it. Thx! 🙂
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“…We would like to talk with people who have left Christianity and have started blogs and organizations that openly oppose the faith. It is difficult to ask such people for an interview if we cannot be open about our identities…”
Can you elaborate more on what you mean by folks who have left the faith? Do you mean leaving Christ himself or just leaving behind the trappings of Christianity? I guess I’m just a stickler for precision. Throwing out the bathwater (religion) is not the same thing as throwing out the baby Jesus too. Hopefully I haven’t misread your post.
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Hi Muff
No, I mean people who claim they were one Christians, evangelicals even, and have stopped believing. I don’t want to debate “once saved, always saved.” What I want folks to hear is why these people have left the faith. Some of the reasons are fascinating and would be worth a discussion.
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I agree that an endless debate on what it means to be “saved” would be pointless and futile. People’s minds are made up and set on this topic and no amount of discussion one way or the other is going to change that. I still think it is entirely possible to not conflate personal faith in Christ with conservative evangelical Protestant group think. My son and daughter in law were emotionally damaged by a virulent form of this mega-church group think and are just now starting to heal.