The first time I ever heard the phrase “The Scream of the Damned” was on March 19, 2009, right around the time that Dee and I began our blog The Wartburg Watch. It absolutely INFURIATED me! How dare someone suggest that my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ “screamed” on the cross and that He was ‘damned’, which means “condemned, especially to eternal punishment”. I believe “damned” is a sensational word that implies someone is being sent to hell. After reading C.J. Mahaney’s book Living the Cross Centered Life, I discovered that this ridiculous phrase originated with R.C. Sproul (see yesterday’s post).
Then I watched the trailer for the Resolved 2009 conference, which is sponsored by John MacArthur’s Grace Community Church. Words cannot express how deeply disturbed I was to hear C.J. Mahaney and John Piper perpetuate this warped view of Jesus’ last words on the cross. As I explained in yesterday’s post, I do not believe that Jesus Christ, the God-Man SCREAMED, and I certainly don’t believe He was DAMNED! I call this sensationalism. Here’s the Resolved 2009 trailer where this idea is put forth. As you watch the video, please keep in mind that the majority of conference attendees (who paid at least $140 to attend, not including travel, lodging, and food) are likely devout Christians who LOVE, not hate, Jesus Christ. Why would the lost pay hundreds of dollars to attend this conference? Take a look…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZgrI2qPifk
Much like the sensationalism of Hollywood, this crowd is going for SHOCK and AWE!
Here are a few comments from those who watched the Resolved trailers:
“i just got the shivers.”
hahahahah me too
resolved is so good at making videos
that’s intense
How is Resolved 2010 going to top “last year’s performance”? The conference planners will have to get more and more sensational in order to keep the audience coming back.
The inflammatory statements made by C.J. Mahaney’s (and even John Piper) in the Resolved 2009 trailer were the LAST STRAW for me. As I stated before, how dare they describe my Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ, in such a shameful way! Where will it end?
That’s one of the major reasons why Dee and I are focusing on the Calvinistas. They have an agenda, and they are systematically carrying it out. Their behind the scenes strategy reminds me so much of the conservative takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention in 1979/80. Dee and I have explained that the SBC had gotten too liberal, but Paige Patterson and his cohorts used their conservative stance as a POWER GRAB.
Here we are thirty years after the SBC takeover, and the Calvinistas are busy promoting their own agenda. As the same reformed speakers assemble different target audiences to put forth their agenda, it appears there is no end to their crusade. With every passing year, the Calvinistas become more and more influential in Christendom.
How have the “Reformed Big Dogs” gained so much power so fast? Well, take a look at C.J. Mahaney’s schedule during the months of April through June 2010. I believe the reason Mahaney is always a favorite speaker is because he schmoozes the audience and provides the “entertainment”.
C.J. Mahaney will be speaking at:
Together for the Gospel (T4G) April 13-15
Louisville, Kentucky
Next 2010 (SGM Conference) May 28-31
Baltimore, Maryland
Southern Baptist Convention Pastor’s Conference June 13-14
Orlando, Florida
Resolved 2010 June 25-28
Palm Springs, California
There are likely others I have missed. When will this divisive nonsense end? Why do reformed Christians feel the need to congregate to the exclusion of those who are not reformed?
Answer: When people STOP attending conferences and buying books and other resources at the conferences. We believe it was “Musicman” who commented on one of the websites critical of SGM that while he was in a Sovereign Grace church the money he spent on books, conferences, and other resources annually was just about the same as his “tithe”. Imagine if that money had gone to “missions”. Instead, it went to those who write the books (C.J.) and plan the conferences.
BTW, if you don’t have your own copy of Living the Cross Centered Life, you’ll surely have the opportunity to buy it and the rest of C.J.’s books at any of the conferences listed above. No wonder he has given over $100,000 to Southern Seminary since 2002.
Here’s the cost of attending the Together for the Gospel conference in April 2010 (http://www.t4g.org/conference/t4g-2010/):
- Early Bird Registration – $199
Ends October 31, 2009 - Student Registration – $99
Ends March 28, 2010 - General Registration – $249
Ends March 28, 2010
It seems like I heard there might be 5,000 attendees. Let’s say a third of those attendees are early birds, a third registered after the early bird deadline, and a third are students. What are the gross receipts from ticket sales?
$199 x 1,667 = $331,733 (early birds)
$99 x 1,667 = $165,033 (students)
$249 x 1,667 = $415,083 (general)
Let’s see, that’s $911,849 in total gross receipts for a three-day conference! And we haven’t even factored in book sales at the conference, which must be HUGE!!! Go and look at the photos from previous conferences. This is why reformed conferences will keep getting bigger and bigger and why more people will jump on the band wagon. It’s also why C.J. Mahaney — conference planner and speaker extraordinaire — will get ever more popular among the Calvinistas. Just remember, “it’s a business”…
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Almost a million dollars. Oh. My. Where does all that money go?? I had NO IDEA it was THAT much!
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I appreciate your research, I’d be interested though to see how much the conference venue costs, I’ve heard they can be quite expensive to the point where most of the registration fee goes to the venue alone, but I don’t know personally. Can you help me out with any data you might have?
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Kyle, I was involved in this stuff and if the conference venue cost more than 15,000 grand a day, I would be surprised.
However, it is not unusual in Christian circles to pay conference speakers anywhere from 10,000-20,000 for one “performance”. Max Lucado used to get that all the time to speak at mega churches for an hour.
I think the reformed world is following in the footsteps of Amway, the masters of these events. What folks don’t know is the the conference is a big income stream for the speakers in both speaking “honorarium” and selling books and materials. They tell you how important it is to be there and you get to meet the big guys and hear their special words. Then, you can buy their stuff.
Once you have paid all the speakers. Let us say they will get 20,000 each, paid THIER travel and food, paid for the venue, you are still looking at some serious profit.
Everyone is doing conferences. They are big money in the Christian world. And lots of young men are ambitious to be one of the very well paid speakers.
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Kyle,
The venue is the Kentucky International Convention Center (http://www.kyconvention.org/visitor_info/visitor_info.html)
Wanna call them and find out how much it costs to rent it since you are so curious?
I have no idea what the net receipts are for the T4G conference, but I’m sure they do MUCH better than just breaking even.
Remember, conference attendees are paying for food and lodging, and this is very attractive to city officials. especially during a recession.
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Lydia,
I know someone in my hometown who is an Amway kingpin. He holds four “functions” (conferences) a year, and sometimes 20,000 people attend just one conference! I’m not sure what the “conference fee” is for these functions, but it would be $150 at the bare minimum. If you do the math, that’s $3,000,000 in gross receipts. Then there’s all the “resources” that are sold (books, CDs, etc.)
Yes, the Christian world has definitely caught on, and conferences are BIG MONEY. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t bother having them.
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Lydia,
Let’s say a pastor decides to attend T4G in April. Based on your extensive knowledge, is the conference fee of $249 paid by the pastor from his personal income or by the church?
Do you think the pastor uses his own credit card or the church’s credit card to pay for travel expenses, food, lodging, and an armful of books and other resources he buys at the conference (which, by the way, can really mount up)?
Just curious…
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“I know someone in my hometown who is an Amway kingpin. He holds four “functions” (conferences) a year, and sometimes 20,000 people attend just one conference! I’m not sure what the “conference fee” is for these functions, but it would be $150 at the bare minimum. If you do the math, that’s $3,000,000 in gross receipts. Then there’s all the “resources” that are sold (books, CDs, etc.)”
We actually talked to the Amway people getting advice on certain venues. They charge (used to) about 400 bucks for 2 nights at a nice hotel and that includes the conference fee, too. You do the math. A nice hotel and a convention center is paid out of that. And, they pay speakers, security, entertainment, etc. But they still make millions. The captive audience is also whipped into a frenzy to buy lots of materials while there.
The convention centers are not that much. And if you are a yearly regular you get deep discounts. That is what Amway folks do with the hotels, too. Based on volume, they have gotten the rooms down to about 40 bucks a night when normally they are 150.00 or even 200 in some cities. So, if you have 10,000 people (which is small for Amway gigs) everyone involved is making money. The point is, would you rather have a full hotel at that price or one that is about 1/8 occupied over the weekend? Most Amway kingpins have their own booking/travel agencies they have formed that do nothing but negotiate this stuff years in advance. They even make commissions off airfares!
The church pays the pastors way. Not sure about all the wanna be seminary students and how they can possibly afford this stuff. For a conference like we are describing, they have to pay for their own room, right? Travel and meals. It can easily get up to almost a 1000 bucks before it is over.
One year there was a reformed conference (Was it the Shepherd’s Conference? Not sure but it was reformed and McArthur was teaching) that was in Louisville. Many couples paid for tickets for both the husband and wife. Well, they oversold based upon the venue and there were not enough seats and because of fire laws they could not seat everyone who bought a ticket. They told the WOMEN to give up their seats for the men because it was MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE MEN TO GET THE INFORMATION.
I tried to find out if they refuned the money to those women but never did. Of course, the meaning was, if you are a good Christian, you will give up the seat you paid for and not ask for your money back.
But think about this in a big picture way. None of this would work unless there are folks who are enamoured with big names. So, pastors are now more like rock stars than anything else when it comes to conferences.
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Wow Lydia! I have been gathering ‘insider information’ about Amway for over 20 years, but you’ve got me beat!
You said:
“The church pays the pastor’s way. Not sure about all the wanna be seminary students and how they can possibly afford this stuff. For a conference like we are describing, they have to pay for their own room, right? Travel and meals. It can easily get up to almost a 1000 bucks before it is over.”
The wanna be seminary students probably do what the struggling Amway distributors do — they pack ’em in to the hotel rooms with 8 or 10 people to a room…
Thanks for the info Lydia. I think we are getting a behind the scenes look at Christian conferences. Whatever happened to the pastors whose primary concern was to nurture their own flock? Times they are a changin’ but definitely NOT for the better!
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And Lydia, the $150 conference fee I mentioned (which is probably closer to $200 now) doesn’t include the cost of the hotel. I guess the Amway people you consulted combined that fee with the hotel room.
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Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor’s conference fees and expenses as a part of the church’s annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some.
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There is a very cultic environment with Amway folks, I think. I really think guys like Mahaney have incorporated Amway tactics into their church system. Demanding respect for the leader…carrying his briefcase, etc…his word is in stone…all this if you want to be in the inner circle except with CJ he claims it is about obedience to God.
Neither one is a place for someone who thinks for themselves or studies for themselves. That is why I think CJ focuses on sin so much. it is the hook to keep them in subjection to his teaching. And he does the humility thing really well. It is why they all focus on authority in the Body. They need that to keep followers of men.
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“Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor’s conference fees and expenses as a part of the church’s annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some.”
Oh, I agree with this totally. Many mega churches have hundreds of thousands designated in the budget for conferences for staffers at almost all levels. The pew sitters have no clue how much is spent if they are elder led and never see a real budget.
Beinga low level staffer in a mega, conferences are one of the perks of the job…all expenses paid. For the high level staffers, they are usually incorporated as holidays and of course, they choose which ones they want to attend usually the ones in Europe.
The conference/seminar business is big business in Christendom. Even smaller churches designate money for a pastors conference. In the SBC, the church pays for the pastor to attend the annual convention in most cases. even the small churches.
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I was just thinking of a high level staffer I know real well who goes to a “conference” on missions in Poland every year all expenses paid by the mega. Nevermind his job with the mega has nothing to do with missions. He loves Germany and gets to take Holiday time around his missions coference every year. That might not be so bad but he also makes 180,00 per year as a staff minister at this mega. He can afford a Holiday on his own dime.
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Lydia,
Isn’t it incredible that the Apostle Paul is such a role model for some of these mega pastors; yet he wasn’t dependent on his followers to fund his lifestyle — he was a tent maker. I’m not saying that pastors shouldn’t be compensated fairly, but is $180,000 a year fair to the congregation? No wonder churches, like those in the SBC, aren’t able to send more money to the IMB…
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Are we sure the Word teaches that “pastors” are to be compensated? Who in the Body is paid “single honor”?
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Lydia
I know a former pastor who thinks that pastors should not be compensated ala “Pagan Christianity.” In a former church there were 17 paid pastors and they were all too busy to visit the congregation, do Good Friday services, etc.
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At one former mega, they brought in a staff minister to visit old people and do the funerals of members who died… UNLESS it was someone famous then the senior pastor got to to it because the media was covering it. Even if the deceased did not go there which happens a lot because famous people need a large church so many can attend.
Of course the new guy did not know most of those for whom he was officiating. Some folks got very incensed over this but like good little sheeple, they went along.