Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled sex abuse victims
This is powerfully damaging, Johnny Hunt is busted BIG TIME.
From David French at The Atlantic: “Few denominations understand the power of character better than the Southern Baptist Church. In fact, in 1998 the Church passed a resolution on the importance of moral character in public officials that echoes beyond politicians.
“I’m haunted by one clause in particular. It says: ‘Tolerance of serious wrong by leaders sears the conscience of the culture, spawns unrestrained immorality and lawlessness in the society, and surely results in God’s judgment.’ Millions of Americans don’t believe in God’s judgment, but Christians do, and while we are grateful that God is merciful, we should tremble with the knowledge that he is also just, and his justice can be terrible indeed.”
Might explain why Johnny Hunt, a staunch anti-Calvinist, stopped fighting the New Calvinst takeover of SBC … the NeoCal leaders had dirt on him or he recognized their sins were not any worse than his own.
Wild Honey: ‘Tolerance of serious wrong by leaders sears the conscience of the culture, spawns unrestrained immorality and lawlessness in the society, and surely results in God’s judgment.’
Bottom-line for Southern Baptist leaders who have been covering up and protecting abusers. You can’t hide from or mock God … payday someday.
There’s probably more of this going on in SBC than any of us would want to know.
Frank Page, ex-SBC Executive Committee CEO, was a strong anti-Calvinist voice within SBC … he even wrote a book “Trouble with the TULIP”, challenging the tenets of reformed theology. All of a sudden, he stopped fighting the NeoCal takeover of SBC … subsequently, he resigned after confessing moral failure.
I still don’t understand why these big-boy preacher-boys can’t keep their pants on. Is that too much to ask from a “man of God”?!!
Max,
Remember in New Calvinism (i.e. The Only TRUE Gospel), the amount and depth of SIN is a bragging right. “More Utterly Depraved Than Thou,” and all that.
Max: subsequently, he resigned after confessing moral failure.
“Moral Failure(TM)” –
That usually means he got caught inside either a live boy or a dead woman.
And will be on the Comeback Trail as soon as the heat blows over.
Wild Honey: “Millions of Americans don’t believe in God’s judgment, but Christians do, and while we are grateful that God is merciful, we should tremble with the knowledge that he is also just, and his justice can be terrible indeed.”
But CALVIN fixed that.
(CALVIN who alone Has God All Figured Out.)
The Elect have a Get-Out-of-Hell-Free Card, signed by God Himself before the creation of the world. There is NO “Judgment of God” for the Predestined Elect, only for the Reprobates (i.e. all the rest of us). Not only are The Predestined Elect (guess who?) Judgment Proof, GAWD hath raised and Exalted them to their current Position holding the whip over us all! “TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
On May 21st Wade Burleson tweeted:
“I presented the original motion in 2007 to track SBC predators. It failed. The SBC investigation (released 05.22.2022) will cast SBC leadership in an unfavorable light. I sought correction from inside. I’m uninterested in SBC deconstruction by outsiders.”
And therein lies a huge and ongoing problem for the SBC. Rachel Denhollander released a statement about the report – where time and time again – she talks about the rejection of ‘outside’ help by the SBC leadership and why it matters.
There are so many inside and ‘outside’ powerful responses about this report from survivors and advocates, done without rancor online. Are they being heard now?
This report is already international news – as well it should be.
As someone wisely noted, Jesus was an outsider. I think Jesus was also a deconstructionist.
This is about survivors, and SBC leaders would to well to take the focus off what they are interested in, be silent, listen and mourn.
Personally, I am not optimistic the SBC can or will do any better than the Catholic Church has.
These big boy preachers cannot keep their pants on because, in my humble opinion, they do not know Jesus. Jesus will satisfy the longings of our souls, fill the God shaped void in our lives, provide us with everything we need to do his will and find that in his presence is fullness of joy and at his right hand are pleasures forevermore (Psalm 16). They don’t want the “Fullness” of joy or the pleasures “forevermore.” They want the false joy that sexual promiscuity gives and the here and now pleasures.
That’s possible, but I think it’s just as likely that he didn’t want to rock the boat and keep the money flowing. A lot of “Anti-Calvinists” rolled over to get access to power and money. Even the Conservative Baptist Network is made up of Calvinists and Antis with the Antis surrendering and being willing to support Tom Ascoll for the presidency.
“They want the false joy that sexual promiscuity gives and the here and now pleasures.”
More than that Bob, I think they crave power and control.
Sexual abuse is primarily about power.
The power that comes with unrestrained leadership in an institution like the SBC is far more intoxicating than sex. Power, influence and prestige seeking are at their root about pride, the sin of the garden.
We are called to be conformed to the to the image of His Son. The Holy Spirit desires to strike at the root of our sin of pride, and unless we submit to that fierce love, we run after our false substitutes.
I downloaded a copy of the report and have been reading it. It is rough. I am struck by how the lawyers were running the place, to a large degree. Because of their position and longevity, Boto, Guenther and Jordan had iron clad control. There are plenty of places to point the finger, that should be pointed at, but the lawyers should NEVER have been allowed to assume the level of control and influence that they had. At a certain point the elected members needed to step up and say “Thank you for your advice, but, as bad as this will be, Jesus calls us to walk in this direction…”
Magistos: At a certain point the elected members needed to step up and say “Thank you for your advice, but, as bad as this will be, Jesus calls us to walk in this direction…”
It should be clear at this point that Jesus had no authority or influence in SBC’s ivory tower. Mere men were ruling high places by the flesh not the Spirit.
Russell Moore had Rachael Denhollander as a guest on his podcast today, talking about the report. Neither of them were surprised by it.
Rape is not about sex, except in the most superficial manner. Rape is about control by force over a person whom the rapist desires to control. That can be a young person of any gender/sex. It can be an older person whom the rapist needs to control for his own rewards.
But it isn’t about sex.
It’s about brutal control, making the victim do as the rapist desires. And the rapist can be — usually is — an otherwise respected minister or teacher or doctor…
All of the news reports of this show Southern Baptist HQ with a book open in front of the building.
Sorry, HUG, but in my opinion that is a gross mischaracterization of Calvin. I have a love/hate relationship with him and his theology, but what I’ve gathered from my reading is that he would never condone covering up sin for any reason.
BD on Mon May 23, 2022 at 03:19 PM said:
On May 21st Wade Burleson tweeted:
“I presented the original motion in 2007 to track SBC predators. It failed. The SBC investigation (released 05.22.2022) will cast SBC leadership in an unfavorable light. I sought correction from inside. I’m uninterested in SBC deconstruction by outsiders.”
What does he even mean by such a statement. It could be construed in many ways.
Agreed. SBC has always been controlled by a handful of elite representing whichever theopolitical party is in control at the time. Neither the Calvinists or non-Calvinists are squeaky clean. The dudebros of both parties often promote folks to national leadership ranks who have no business representing millions of God-fearing, Jesus-loving members. These networks of inner circles are often comprised of bad-boys seeking power, rather than Christ.
I truly believe that the vast majority of SBC’s 50,000 churches and 13 million members are real-deal … it’s unfortunate that the sins of a few (actually 100s in this case) have cast a shadow on the whole bunch. If only folks in leadership capacities could be picked from the faithful rather than the pitiful. The best man to lead SBC forward at this time is probably sitting in some obscure outpost somewhere, being true to God’s calling in his life, loving the sheep entrusted to him, and keeping his pants on.
The Calvinists have been doing that for 500 years!
Degenerate leaders and their lawyers.
One sure fire way to make sure reform happens is through lawsuits. Might be the only way.
Max: Yes, several SBC elite have been named in the cover-up/protection of abusers. The big-boy shepherds simply did not protect the sheep.
Shepherds? Hardly. Predators: Big-bad-boy wolves and their BFF protectors, the wolf protectors.
The deniers, doubters, silencers, predators, and predator protectors at the highest levels of church leadership are outed.
It’s what Christa Brown, Lori Anne Thompson, Jules Woodson, et al, have been saying all along.
These may be church leaders but they are not the Body of Christ.
Afterburne: One sure fire way to make sure reform happens is through lawsuits. Might be the only way.
Jeff Anderson of Anderson and Associates agree.
Bridget:
“What does he even mean by such a statement. It could be construed in many ways.”
It could. He didn’t tag anyone as a response which makes me think this is a standalone thought. He also released the tweet before the report was released.
What do you think Wade meant?
Afterburne: One sure fire way to make sure reform happens is through lawsuits. Might be the only way.
Hit them where it hurts – their bank accounts, their Furtick Mansions, their Copeland private jets.
Max: Agreed. SBC has always been controlled by a handful of elite representing whichever theopolitical party is in control at the time.
HIGH PRIESTS.
Ted: The big mystery is why so many ABC churches in the north, also independent churches and megachurches, lean toward a reformed, Southern Baptist format.
Because the Southern Baptists were a major archetype of the non-liturgical Protestant church.
Before the rise of Calvary Chapel (which itself follows a lot of the SBC archetype tropes), there was a saying:
“A Non-Denominational Church – you know, Southern Baptist with the labels painted over?”
Max: The big-boy shepherds simply did not protect the sheep.
Instead (like in the one long-ago Naked Pastor cartoon) they slaughtered them for mutton.
And these shepherds had quite an appetite for mutton. And lamb.
Burwell Stark: I have a love/hate relationship with him and his theology, but what I’ve gathered from my reading is that he would never condone covering up sin for any reason.
What about those who are More Calvinist than Calvin?
Like the Taliban and ISIS who are more Islamic than Mohammed?
That is a fair question to which I have no answer. The zeal of the follower, when combined with power of position, never produces a healthy environment.
Ava Aaronson: Shepherds? Hardly. Predators: Big-bad-boy wolves and their BFF protectors, the wolf protectors.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing? Nah. The wolves have found it more productive to wear shepherd’s clothing.
Ava Aaronson: These may be church leaders but they are not the Body of Christ.
Not everyone who goes to church is ‘the’ Church … that includes church leaders!
That is a fair question to which I have no answer. The zeal of the follower, when combined with power of position, never produces a healthy environment.
Absolute Power plus Utter Righteousness is one helluva destructive combination.
This is similar to how – suddenly discomfitted around Fletcher / Smyth, newish would-have-been C of E ministers are setting up as “reformed”, but with how much better teaching one has proceed with caution to discover.
It might be about sex bred bad as WELL, like the wrong kind of dog.
Obviously there was always these evils, often on very big scale sadly. I was young when sex was sold by authority. Instead of leaving it private and not pretending to be us “laddies” with our up to then light hearted tittle tattle. In time for this to happen, the churches had stopped praying.
No-one is allowed friendship. Any relating has to be zero sum. Boy eats girl. Man eats man. Total suspicion any time anyone wants to relate. The churches appear from their propaganda just as suspicious-minded as any warped element in commerce or politics is. This has repelled the young of goodwill.
Sex was sold by authority named Duggar and JP II and (through their matriarchal corporation) those bright intelligent Oxford-based apologetists (who don’t understand the prayer of Daniel), because authority is sexy.
People who think they are stable should pray for the single. The middle aged should pray for the young. Christianity became something offhand and casual.
BD on Mon May 23, 2022 at 11:20 PM said:
Bridget:
“What do you think Wade meant?”
I don’t know what he meant, but it sounds like he’s washing his hands of it . . .
Bridget:
Makes sense. Wade B posted at Istoria Ministries with 5 thoughts. Number 5:
“There’s a difference between correcting problems within and destroying a Convention from without. I am longer an SBC pastor. I receive no salary from the SBC. What I say next has no personal bearing on me. For fifteen years, I sought to reform the SBC from the inside. That reform has now come. I will not align with those who seek to destroy the SBC from the outside.”
I don’t believe the reform has now come. We’ll see. I think Jonathan Merritt says it well at Religion News Service: “Southern Baptists’ abuse report is no call for reform. It’s a repudiation of the past 40 years.”
BD: That reform has now come. I will not align with those who seek to destroy the SBC from the outside.
No one would need to align with those who sought to destroy it from the outside (there surely aren’t any). But reform hasn’t come yet. Careless editing of this article: did he mean he is calling for it to come soon, or not?
1
Whew! It’s bad.
Patterson’s stained-glass “Hall of Fame” at SWBTS was primarily a stained “Hall of Shame.”
There is so much to digest. It is so much worse than expected, and yet the names are (mostly) familiar.
https://apnews.com/article/baptist-religion-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-southern-convention-bfdbe64389790630488f854c3dae3fd5
Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled sex abuse victims
This is powerfully damaging, Johnny Hunt is busted BIG TIME.
From David French at The Atlantic: “Few denominations understand the power of character better than the Southern Baptist Church. In fact, in 1998 the Church passed a resolution on the importance of moral character in public officials that echoes beyond politicians.
“I’m haunted by one clause in particular. It says: ‘Tolerance of serious wrong by leaders sears the conscience of the culture, spawns unrestrained immorality and lawlessness in the society, and surely results in God’s judgment.’ Millions of Americans don’t believe in God’s judgment, but Christians do, and while we are grateful that God is merciful, we should tremble with the knowledge that he is also just, and his justice can be terrible indeed.”
Wild Honey,
Whoops, here’s the link: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-evangelical-allegations-cover-up/629954/
Yes, several SBC elite have been named in the cover-up/protection of abusers. The big-boy shepherds simply did not protect the sheep.
Might explain why Johnny Hunt, a staunch anti-Calvinist, stopped fighting the New Calvinst takeover of SBC … the NeoCal leaders had dirt on him or he recognized their sins were not any worse than his own.
Bottom-line for Southern Baptist leaders who have been covering up and protecting abusers. You can’t hide from or mock God … payday someday.
There’s probably more of this going on in SBC than any of us would want to know.
Frank Page, ex-SBC Executive Committee CEO, was a strong anti-Calvinist voice within SBC … he even wrote a book “Trouble with the TULIP”, challenging the tenets of reformed theology. All of a sudden, he stopped fighting the NeoCal takeover of SBC … subsequently, he resigned after confessing moral failure.
I still don’t understand why these big-boy preacher-boys can’t keep their pants on. Is that too much to ask from a “man of God”?!!
Max,
Remember in New Calvinism (i.e. The Only TRUE Gospel), the amount and depth of SIN is a bragging right. “More Utterly Depraved Than Thou,” and all that.
“Moral Failure(TM)” –
That usually means he got caught inside either a live boy or a dead woman.
And will be on the Comeback Trail as soon as the heat blows over.
But CALVIN fixed that.
(CALVIN who alone Has God All Figured Out.)
The Elect have a Get-Out-of-Hell-Free Card, signed by God Himself before the creation of the world. There is NO “Judgment of God” for the Predestined Elect, only for the Reprobates (i.e. all the rest of us). Not only are The Predestined Elect (guess who?) Judgment Proof, GAWD hath raised and Exalted them to their current Position holding the whip over us all! “TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
On May 21st Wade Burleson tweeted:
“I presented the original motion in 2007 to track SBC predators. It failed. The SBC investigation (released 05.22.2022) will cast SBC leadership in an unfavorable light. I sought correction from inside. I’m uninterested in SBC deconstruction by outsiders.”
And therein lies a huge and ongoing problem for the SBC. Rachel Denhollander released a statement about the report – where time and time again – she talks about the rejection of ‘outside’ help by the SBC leadership and why it matters.
There are so many inside and ‘outside’ powerful responses about this report from survivors and advocates, done without rancor online. Are they being heard now?
This report is already international news – as well it should be.
As someone wisely noted, Jesus was an outsider. I think Jesus was also a deconstructionist.
This is about survivors, and SBC leaders would to well to take the focus off what they are interested in, be silent, listen and mourn.
Personally, I am not optimistic the SBC can or will do any better than the Catholic Church has.
These big boy preachers cannot keep their pants on because, in my humble opinion, they do not know Jesus. Jesus will satisfy the longings of our souls, fill the God shaped void in our lives, provide us with everything we need to do his will and find that in his presence is fullness of joy and at his right hand are pleasures forevermore (Psalm 16). They don’t want the “Fullness” of joy or the pleasures “forevermore.” They want the false joy that sexual promiscuity gives and the here and now pleasures.
Max,
That’s possible, but I think it’s just as likely that he didn’t want to rock the boat and keep the money flowing. A lot of “Anti-Calvinists” rolled over to get access to power and money. Even the Conservative Baptist Network is made up of Calvinists and Antis with the Antis surrendering and being willing to support Tom Ascoll for the presidency.
“They want the false joy that sexual promiscuity gives and the here and now pleasures.”
More than that Bob, I think they crave power and control.
Sexual abuse is primarily about power.
The power that comes with unrestrained leadership in an institution like the SBC is far more intoxicating than sex. Power, influence and prestige seeking are at their root about pride, the sin of the garden.
We are called to be conformed to the to the image of His Son. The Holy Spirit desires to strike at the root of our sin of pride, and unless we submit to that fierce love, we run after our false substitutes.
I downloaded a copy of the report and have been reading it. It is rough. I am struck by how the lawyers were running the place, to a large degree. Because of their position and longevity, Boto, Guenther and Jordan had iron clad control. There are plenty of places to point the finger, that should be pointed at, but the lawyers should NEVER have been allowed to assume the level of control and influence that they had. At a certain point the elected members needed to step up and say “Thank you for your advice, but, as bad as this will be, Jesus calls us to walk in this direction…”
It should be clear at this point that Jesus had no authority or influence in SBC’s ivory tower. Mere men were ruling high places by the flesh not the Spirit.
Russell Moore had Rachael Denhollander as a guest on his podcast today, talking about the report. Neither of them were surprised by it.
Rape is not about sex, except in the most superficial manner. Rape is about control by force over a person whom the rapist desires to control. That can be a young person of any gender/sex. It can be an older person whom the rapist needs to control for his own rewards.
But it isn’t about sex.
It’s about brutal control, making the victim do as the rapist desires. And the rapist can be — usually is — an otherwise respected minister or teacher or doctor…
All of the news reports of this show Southern Baptist HQ with a book open in front of the building.
This report is the book isn’t it.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Sorry, HUG, but in my opinion that is a gross mischaracterization of Calvin. I have a love/hate relationship with him and his theology, but what I’ve gathered from my reading is that he would never condone covering up sin for any reason.
BD on Mon May 23, 2022 at 03:19 PM said:
On May 21st Wade Burleson tweeted:
“I presented the original motion in 2007 to track SBC predators. It failed. The SBC investigation (released 05.22.2022) will cast SBC leadership in an unfavorable light. I sought correction from inside. I’m uninterested in SBC deconstruction by outsiders.”
What does he even mean by such a statement. It could be construed in many ways.
No sin in having people who differed with his theology tortured and executed? Oh wait, he didn’t cover that up, he did it openly.
Afterburne,
I’m not defending those scrubs, but to be fair, that was no different than the Roman Catholics of his day.
Actions. No shade on TLC’s song intended.
The big mystery is why so many ABC churches in the north, also independent churches and megachurches, lean toward a reformed, Southern Baptist format.
O Lord, let the tide turn.
MasterSanders,
Agreed. SBC has always been controlled by a handful of elite representing whichever theopolitical party is in control at the time. Neither the Calvinists or non-Calvinists are squeaky clean. The dudebros of both parties often promote folks to national leadership ranks who have no business representing millions of God-fearing, Jesus-loving members. These networks of inner circles are often comprised of bad-boys seeking power, rather than Christ.
I truly believe that the vast majority of SBC’s 50,000 churches and 13 million members are real-deal … it’s unfortunate that the sins of a few (actually 100s in this case) have cast a shadow on the whole bunch. If only folks in leadership capacities could be picked from the faithful rather than the pitiful. The best man to lead SBC forward at this time is probably sitting in some obscure outpost somewhere, being true to God’s calling in his life, loving the sheep entrusted to him, and keeping his pants on.
The Calvinists have been doing that for 500 years!
Degenerate leaders and their lawyers.
One sure fire way to make sure reform happens is through lawsuits. Might be the only way.
Shepherds? Hardly. Predators: Big-bad-boy wolves and their BFF protectors, the wolf protectors.
The deniers, doubters, silencers, predators, and predator protectors at the highest levels of church leadership are outed.
It’s what Christa Brown, Lori Anne Thompson, Jules Woodson, et al, have been saying all along.
These may be church leaders but they are not the Body of Christ.
Jeff Anderson of Anderson and Associates agree.
Bridget:
“What does he even mean by such a statement. It could be construed in many ways.”
It could. He didn’t tag anyone as a response which makes me think this is a standalone thought. He also released the tweet before the report was released.
What do you think Wade meant?
Hit them where it hurts – their bank accounts, their Furtick Mansions, their Copeland private jets.
HIGH PRIESTS.
Because the Southern Baptists were a major archetype of the non-liturgical Protestant church.
Before the rise of Calvary Chapel (which itself follows a lot of the SBC archetype tropes), there was a saying:
“A Non-Denominational Church – you know, Southern Baptist with the labels painted over?”
Instead (like in the one long-ago Naked Pastor cartoon) they slaughtered them for mutton.
And these shepherds had quite an appetite for mutton. And lamb.
What about those who are More Calvinist than Calvin?
Like the Taliban and ISIS who are more Islamic than Mohammed?
Headless Unicorn Guy,
That is a fair question to which I have no answer. The zeal of the follower, when combined with power of position, never produces a healthy environment.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing? Nah. The wolves have found it more productive to wear shepherd’s clothing.
Not everyone who goes to church is ‘the’ Church … that includes church leaders!
Absolute Power plus Utter Righteousness is one helluva destructive combination.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
And in New Jansenism also !!!
Headless Unicorn Guy,
This is similar to how – suddenly discomfitted around Fletcher / Smyth, newish would-have-been C of E ministers are setting up as “reformed”, but with how much better teaching one has proceed with caution to discover.
It might be about sex bred bad as WELL, like the wrong kind of dog.
Obviously there was always these evils, often on very big scale sadly. I was young when sex was sold by authority. Instead of leaving it private and not pretending to be us “laddies” with our up to then light hearted tittle tattle. In time for this to happen, the churches had stopped praying.
No-one is allowed friendship. Any relating has to be zero sum. Boy eats girl. Man eats man. Total suspicion any time anyone wants to relate. The churches appear from their propaganda just as suspicious-minded as any warped element in commerce or politics is. This has repelled the young of goodwill.
Sex was sold by authority named Duggar and JP II and (through their matriarchal corporation) those bright intelligent Oxford-based apologetists (who don’t understand the prayer of Daniel), because authority is sexy.
People who think they are stable should pray for the single. The middle aged should pray for the young. Christianity became something offhand and casual.
BD on Mon May 23, 2022 at 11:20 PM said:
Bridget:
“What do you think Wade meant?”
I don’t know what he meant, but it sounds like he’s washing his hands of it . . .
Bridget:
Makes sense. Wade B posted at Istoria Ministries with 5 thoughts. Number 5:
“There’s a difference between correcting problems within and destroying a Convention from without. I am longer an SBC pastor. I receive no salary from the SBC. What I say next has no personal bearing on me. For fifteen years, I sought to reform the SBC from the inside. That reform has now come. I will not align with those who seek to destroy the SBC from the outside.”
I don’t believe the reform has now come. We’ll see. I think Jonathan Merritt says it well at Religion News Service: “Southern Baptists’ abuse report is no call for reform. It’s a repudiation of the past 40 years.”
No one would need to align with those who sought to destroy it from the outside (there surely aren’t any). But reform hasn’t come yet. Careless editing of this article: did he mean he is calling for it to come soon, or not?