Josh Duggar Mug Shot
Duggar family 2007-Wikipedia
“Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life, and it is the main obstacle between you and a shitty first draft. I think perfectionism is based on the obsessive belief that if you run carefully enough, hitting each stepping-stone just right, you won’t have to die. The truth is that you will die anyway and that a lot of people who aren’t even looking at their feet are going to do a whole lot better than you, and have a lot more fun while they’re doing it.” ― Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life
I think that this sentencing phase of Josh Duggar’s conviction is essential. I believe that few people in the evangelical community understand the depths of the depravity of Josh Duggar’s actions. I also believe that Duggar is a master at manipulating his family into believing he is a victim. It recalled Curly of the Three Stooges claiming, on multiple occasions, that he was a victim of “soycumstance.”
Frankly, I do not hold the Duggars in high esteem. I know that a couple of their many kids have reportedly cut ties with the family but it appears that it is business as usual.
Josh Duggar wants a light sentence for his crimes because he is a “victim,” and some in his family appear to agree.
Well, it is all hitting the fan as we predicted. The Insider posted Feds say Josh Duggar’s ‘blame tactics’ have succeeded among his loved ones, but it’s ‘inconceivable’ that he will seek treatment and accountability.
Federal prosecutors said in a court filing on this week that the former reality TV star Josh Duggar has apparently convinced his friends and family that he is a “victim,” and, therefore will likely never be held accountable enough to seek treatment for his “sexual proclivities toward prepubescent girls.”
…As part of that sentencing memorandum, Duggar had submitted 10 letters from relatives, close friends, and members of his church community, all of whom lauded Duggar’s character and requested he be granted a lenient sentence.
…(Prosecutors ) noting that none of them “meaningfully” addressed Duggar’s crimes “or his sexual proclivities toward prepubescent girls.”
…Prosecutors added that some of the letter-writers even expressed a belief that Duggar was a victim, casting his conviction as “an unfortunate happenstance.”
These letters were so lacking in understanding the extent of Duggar’s crimes that prosecutors appear to believe that the family would be of little help in getting him treatment or even intervening to prevent him from reoffending. In other words, it seems like these family members are out to lunch and that is worrisome since they either had no idea of his very busy, chilling lifestyle.
“Absent some recognition from Duggar of his crimes and his need to address his demonstrated and long-standing sexual interest in children, it is unlikely that he will ever view his conviction as anything other than proof that he needs to be more circumspect and secretive the next time he engages in conduct involving child sexual abuse,” prosecutors wrote.
Who wrote these letters?
Among the people who wrote letters on Duggar’s behalf were his wife, Anna, and his mother, Michelle. LaCount Reber, the pastor and family friend who allowed Duggar to stay at his family’s home while awaiting trial, also submitted a letter praising Duggar’s helpfulness around his home.
Duggar appears to be adept at manipulating his family and those around him.
Many of the letters described Duggar as a generous and compassionate friend and neighbor, and a devoutly religious churchgoer, who frequently volunteered his time, money, and energy to help people in need.
It appears that this is all about Josh getting a lighter sentence while the prosecutors are requesting a harsher sentence.
KNWA/FOX 24 posted Prosecution calls Duggar’s pattern of criminal behavior ‘baffling’ in response to defense’s request for minimum sentence. The prosecutors seem determined to add enhancements to Duggar’s charges so that he will receive a more severe punishment. The prosecution handily answered three specific objections of the defense.
- The defense objected to a “sadistic-or-masochistic enhancement”. The government’s filing notes that evidence proves that “Duggar downloaded multiple videos depicting just that,” and continues with an explicit description of specific files, including some containing “unquestionably sadistic abuse” of prepubescent girls.
- The defense has maintained that Duggar downloaded 127 images, while the prosecution has stated on multiple occasions that the total was actually over 600.“Duggar’s objection is legally irrelevant and factually incorrect,” the prosecution says
- Third was the defense’s objection to a “pattern-of-activity enhancement”, which the defense memo claimed “is based on unreliable reporting from a ‘tabloid magazine.’” The government notes that this enhancement is supported by “the unrebutted testimony of Bobye Holt,” the family friend who testified regarding accusations of molestation Duggar committed when he was a teenager. The motion adds that her testimony “was corroborated by the self-serving testimony of his own father.”
The prosection responded to the defense’s claim that Duggar should get the lowest possible sentence.
The filing also addressed the defense’s claim that the lowest possible sentence would be appropriate because Duggar will “be subject [to] supervised release and suffer the ‘humiliation’ of his conviction,” stating that those arguments “miss the mark entirely.”
The government also cites studies that show that sex offenders are “four times more likely than other violent criminals to recommit their crimes.”
Liberals are attacking this fine young man and he was also framed, according to his family.
More importantly, none of these letters meaningfully grapple with his crimes or his sexual proclivities toward prepubescent girls. At least one suggests that ‘enemies’ threatened by his ‘quiet display of conservative values’ are targeting him while simultaneously advancing his impossible theory that ‘an unscrupulous young man’ framed him. Many more describe his conviction generally as an unfortunate happenstance — something that has simply befallen him despite his best efforts to avoid it. That is precisely the problem.
My thoughts
- Give him the max and let him sort this out with the boys in prison.
- The Duggars appear to have serious psychiatric problems, including his wife, Anna, and his mother, Michelle. Yes, I know Anna has been brainwashed since she was a child. However, many women rise to the challenge when it involves protecting their children. Anna wants this “daddy” home with the kids as they grow older. We know how that turned out with his sisters.
- A former pastor of mine made a good point recently. He said that we view the faith as a set of dos and don’ts, and we march along like good little girls and boys, all the while hiding our sin. The Duggars are the poster child for this. They looked so sweet and good, and it turned out they hid at least one apparent monster.
- I believe Josh Duggar is a dangerous predator, leading me to wonder about the rest of his family. What went on behind closed doors? I predict more stories to come.
First?? And yes, I was always creeped out by the family even during their heyday.
“I predict more stories to come.”
Makes total sense, Dee. Unfortunately, you are probably right.
“The government also cites studies that show that sex offenders are ‘four times more likely than other violent criminals to recommit their crimes.’”
Facts, stats, proclivities. Don’t lie.
They are asking for only 20 years? I would keep him in the slammer until his youngest child reaches 25 minimum, simply to protect his children from him.
I wish they could charge his parents with child abuse/neglect as well. I certainly do not think large families are always abusive, the vast majority of my friends with 5-9 children are among the best adjusted I know. That being said, normal families do not rent their children out to the entertainment industry.
I read the prosecution sentencing document, and the rebuttal to the defense sentencing document. You did a good job of hitting the high points, Dee. And yes, I’ll be honest, I did not read the defense’s arguments. They completely lost me several months ago when they tried to blame someone who had worked at the car lot for what was on Josh’s computer. The court didn’t buy it when Duggar’s attorneys tried to ask for a new trial.
As for “why only 20 years?” That’s the maximum sentence under the Federal sentencing guidelines, which are actually fairly complicated. Josh is a first time offender, and for first-timers, absent any other considerations, there are guidelines to deviate downward. That’s why the prosecution is so very clear about the enhancements as to the type of CSAM downloaded and the number of items. The feds want him to get every second he has coming to him.
The judge is going to consider everything the prosecution and the defense puts before him and then make the decision. He’s going to be careful, because judges just *hate* getting overturned on appeal. He’s going to make sure he’s crossed every t and dotted every i on this one.
The hearing is Wednesday, May 25 at 8:30 AM CDT. Which is just when I wake up here in Arizona (not CDT). This will not be televised. We will find out the sentence when the hearing ends. I hope he goes away for a long, long time. Especially for the sake of his children.
Isn’t that the theologically precise definition of sin?
“I would keep him in the slammer until his youngest child reaches 25 minimum, simply to protect his children from him.” (J. Maccabeus)
THIS,
MOST DEFINITELY THIS !
The defense is making the case for a lighter sentence because he downloaded only 127 images?!?!?
Did he seek a letter of recommendation from Danica Dillon?
There is so much to happen with this family in the future. The couple of kids who have cut ties will turn into book and movie deals, and make the Phelps family look fairly together and sensible.
I’d be curious if any of the support letters attempted to pull a “church lady” (Dana Carvey’s old character on Saturday Night Live) and, while casting Josh Duggar as the victim, these supporters felt the need to focus all the blame on Satan. After all, Josh was such a pillar in his church community, certainly Satan was extremely threatened and had to bring Josh down somehow. /s
As my daughter’s friend once noted “That’s just sick and wrong!”
Parents who do so don’t love their children as they ought … in my humble, but accurate, opinion.
Our daughter is a talented singer and musician, but we never once thought of marketing her for personal gain.
No, but there was some weirdness in a couple of the letters about how Josh had been sending “regular, and a large sum of money” (from Denise Burress’ letter) to a widow (a woman older than his parents) for the last four years and this is supposed to show how great of a guy he is, please sentence him to the minimum. There’s been a lot of speculation as to why he would do this, particularly as since his wife Anna says in her letter “[t]his was not because we have excess income….” I have my suspicions, but I don’t have enough data to say anything, so that’s all I’m going to say about that.
I’d note that none of the letters, so far as I know, even mention the damage done to the children who were portrayed in the CSAM found on Josh’s computer. Or if Josh is repentant. Nope. Blargh. It’s all Josh Josh Josh Josh Josh and in the best light.
There are numerous victims in this sad mess … but Josh is not one of them.
Even for ‘just’ 127 images of sadistic child abuse the longest sentence should be sought. I don’t care how many religious observances he makes, nor how much money he sends people (my first thought was hush money), the bare facts are that he is a dangerous, sadistically inclined child abuser. How much worse would it have to be before his family pay attention & to care for the victims? Would it make ANY difference if these were pictures of children they know being abused?
I dread to think how much else there is to be uncovered, not only in this family, but in many like them. Is it sheer painful naivety, or is it just plain old evil?
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
That was a great comment. Thank you.
If he gets a lenient semtence, I believe he will reoffend immediately.
d4v1d,
Yep.
I would venture to guess that they believe this.
I remember one lady in Dallas who was pushing to get her son into commercials, shows, etc. I asked her why. She said that he was going to change Hollywood for Christ. The kid was only 10 years old!
What might be the most disgusting thing about this is how so many in the church still hold up that family as an ideal while endlessly vilifying, slandering and marginalizing people who decided marriage and parenthood weren’t things they’d be good at. Too bad they weren’t around to castigate John the Baptiser, most of the original 12, The Lord Himself and others on the error of their ways. Why, if only they’d all just settled down, got married and had kids. God could really have used them then. What a pity!
dee,
Prolly doing it now.
I don’t care for the Duggar family’s hypocrisy whatsoever, but many here (present and past) are making absolute judgements that Josh was guilty of having kiddie porn on a computer at his place of work, yet are blindly trusting that the Feds didn’t lie about the evidence, or worse yet, plant the evidence themselves. This is a very real possibility.
Sadly, it’s so easy for them to destroy anyone’s reputation in this manner, and (if you are awake enough to see) the amount of corruption in these departments is mind boggling, especially towards those who say they follow Jesus.
The rule of law in the Republic no longer exists (a republic…if you can keep it) in case you haven’t noticed. A kakistocracy has slowly taken it’s place many many decades ago because we the people fell for their tricks and accepted their multitudes of illusions as reality.
Pedophilia has been alive and well in the political and public educational arena, yet the Feds have turned a blind eye far too much of it for far too long.
Be careful who you trust is telling you the truth.
i.e. Josh was such a Mighty ManaGAWD that Satan singled him out for Special Attention.
Just like Bob Larson.
That will probably become the Duggar Party Line.
And where’s their Fixer Friend in High Places, Huckabee?
That is NOT going to end well.
I looked after security issues at our church when I was on the board. We had a guy show up out of the blue who reported to our pastor he was a registered sex offender. Child porn, federal conviction, five years prison. He was of course “set up” and falsely convicted in his own words. The pastor, I feel bought too much of his story. When he told me about this guy I looked up his case. The court records told a different story. Thousands of images on three different computers,multiple paid accounts and a violation while awaiting trial. He pled guilty to felonies with five years in prison and five probation. Permanent sex offender registry.
I feel the pastor handled this poorly by allowing him to continue to attend, putting limits on his participation and informing key people about his past. I wanted him gone, but was overruled. Fortunately, he disappeared when covid struck and I have not seen him around 2 1/2 years later.
I feel our pastor is misinformed about how to deal with child sex offenders. His was an old school reaction. I think that he is catching on as I continue in dialog with him.
Someone at my church used to say this all the time, that Satan singles out the Very Best Christians for attack.
At prayer group, this same person asked, in a tone of near agony, “What would happen if the Rapture came and I was passed out after drinking some Scotch? Would I be left behind?”
Keep up the good work!
It gets even worse. Ever hear of “Militant Fecundity” in connection with reconstructionism? That is what these types are up to. Use the children to take over the world for their version of christianity. If there ever was exploitation, that is it. Have children not because you love them for who they are, but have them for what they can do for you and your cause.
Unfortunately I knew a young man who grew up and helped to launch and promote the Quiverfull movement. He made money traveling around lecturing as a Holocaust denier, and about how contraception is rebellion against God. I felt very sorry for his many children.
I just finished reading Philip Yancey’s memoir, Where The Light Fell. The weight of a mother’s (unrealistic) expectations for her children’s devotion to a life service to God was a very heavy theme. Gut-wrenching heavy.
You mean “Outbreed the Heathen”?
With wombs (i.e. women) as the pits below Isengard spawning Uruk-Hai for the Culture Wars?
And did this someone imply just WHO was among “the Very Best Christians”?
Bragging Rights and One-Upmanship, that’s all it is.
Sounds like he/she/whatever was partaking of The Secret Sip.
(Was this a “dry” church or “dry” individual?)
Either that or was VERY prone to worst-case hypotheticals. TO the point of OCD.
Here is another story along those lines:
“They Secretly Cloned Mozart”
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2001/08/in-2003-they-secretly-cloned-mozart/377559/
Think of it as a parable.
(What I would have said to the clone? “You’re not Wolfgang Amadeus. You’re his twin brother. You have musical talent, but YOU’RE NOT HIM.” And invited him to D&D or Hobby Day at the KoC Hall)
Yeah, that was it. She had a thrilling testimony too.
One time, when she was leading the prayer group, she said that sinful thoughts are far worse than actual deeds. Suddenly I heard a voice coming out of my head, saying, “Actually, God appreciates it when you walk on past that line of white powder instead of snorting it.”
Just as people aren’t looking over the fence and learning from how Roman Catholics have shot themselves in the foot with their mismanagement of abuse, they’re all doing the same with various other sexual issues including contraception.
The reason you no longer see many big Roman Catholic families is they’ve learned the hard way that it’s foolish to let a church/minister/movement dictate your family life and particularly what happens in the bedroom.
They’ve also learned that when a cleric dictates oppressive stuff to others he certainly won’t be following the rules himself.
Loren Haas,
This story is a sobering example of “stupidity”.
I put stupidity in quotation marks because I’m going to give that pastor the benefit of the doubt that he’s probably quite intelligent when measured on an IQ scale and in other areas of his life.
But ignoring the findings of a court case in which evidence is presented, scrutinized, and debated, in favor of the defendant’s anecdotal testimony is “stupid”.
It is very similar to some people who ignore the 60-70 lawsuits brought by Trump’s legal team attempting to prove election fraud – lawsuits that were dismissed or ruled against – in favor of anecdotal testimony.
The Duggars can quit now. With 19 kids and 22 grandchildren, they won’t have a big enough army to take over the world before their biological clocks run out of time.
Loren Haas,
I bet that was so frustrating for you. Too many people in the pulpit let their wishes to exhibit grace to all, interfere with reality. This is wonderful until a pedophile wants to use the church to fulfill his own sick desires. The Bible talks about wolves in sheep’s clothing. It’s time we took the Bible at its word and accept there is evil in the world and that the evil could be targeting naive people in churches.
That’s why Douggie ESQUIRE commanded “200-year Dynastic plans”. Including “Estates and Houseservants”.
During the First Cold War, the KGB term for them was “Useful Idiots”.
And Thrilling/JUICY Testimony (real, embellished, or imagined) trumps everything else.
(And the One-Upmanship of Thrilling Testimony guarantees a lot of them WILL be embellished and/or imagined.)
Why, even in Left Behind: Volume 16, the Heaven of the Raptured is a never-ending Testimony NIght!
Overheard years ago in the 480 bus when Josh’s first scandal/coverup broke:
“Duggars bla bla bla they’re CHRISTIAN bla bla bla Guess it’s OK to bang your own sisters as long as you’re Not GAY…”
John on Sun May 22, 2022 at 05:08 AM said:
“They’ve also learned that when a cleric dictates oppressive stuff to others he certainly won’t be following the rules himself.”
The rules have always applied only to little people.
Never the Kahunas.
Waiting to see if Josh truly gets a jail sentence of significance… If it happens, does it have something to do with his supposedly “Christian” underpinning ? Certainly his celebrity status would drive the sentence to nonexistent or a slap on the wrist timeframe as we have seen dozens and dozens of times for very “important” people… Maybe it will not matter any more as our justice system is getting more and more willing to turn a blind eye to this stuff, no matter who you are…
Spawning Uruk-Hai in the pits below Isengard…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jamrudGfC4
“WHOM DO YOU SERVE?”
Feds are not impressed.
https://www.insider.com/josh-duggar-sentencing-documents-prosecutors-decry-blame-tactics-2022-5
What is it about telling the truth that these boys (and their girl followers) don’t get?
Following this thread on TWW twitter: another case of “to tell the truth or not, that is the question”.
https://twitter.com/cherievann/status/1528414171791958016?t=N4-6ELjeyh3fvwhE6-Atqw&s=19
Exactly.
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it!” Rom. 6.15.
The New Calvinists are not the only faith group who misapply “grace.” Grace-this and grace-that will never cover deliberate, unrepentant sin.
In too many churches:
“Grace is represented as the Church’s inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost!
Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the Cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
More trouble in High Places:
“NYT Breaking News: Southern Baptist leaders mishandled sex abuse claims and resisted reforms over concerns of “potential liability,” a third-party report alleges.”
NYT: Sunday, May 22, 2022 7:24PM
“The report also said that a former president of the denomination was accused of sexually assaulting a woman in 2010, an allegation the report described as ‘credible.’”
Just saw Todd’s tweet. Looks like NYT got this from Robert Downen at the Houston Chronicle. Downen does good work.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Former-Southern-Baptist-president-accused-of-17190827.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Don’t know what is Robert Downen’s religious affiliation. However, his affiliation with truth is obvious. He collects facts. Then puts in print.
Well stated, Max, and thanks for the Bonhoeffer quote. Excellent.
The full report on the SBC is supposedly at https://www.sataskforce.net/updates/guidepost-solutions-report-of-the-independent-investigation
Erp,
Thx for the link. Here’s from AP:
Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled sex abuse victims
By DEEPA BHARATH, HOLLY MEYER and DAVID CRARY
“Leaders of the SBC, America’s largest Protestant denomination, stonewalled and denigrated survivors of clergy sex abuse over almost two decades while seeking to protect their own reputations, according to a scathing 288-page investigative report issued Sunday, May 22, 2022.
“These survivors, and other concerned Southern Baptists, repeatedly shared allegations with the SBC’s Executive Committee, ‘only to be met, time and time again, with resistance, stonewalling, and even outright hostility from some within the EC,’ said the report.
“The seven-month investigation was conducted by Guidepost Solutions, an independent firm contracted by the Executive Committee after delegates to last year’s national meeting pressed for a probe by outsiders.
“’Our investigation revealed that, for many years, a few senior EC leaders, along with outside counsel, largely controlled the EC’s response to these reports of abuse … and were singularly focused on avoiding liability for the SBC,’ the report said.”
If these leaders like the limelight, they got it.
However, when Jesus gave leaders the charge to spread the Good News, it’s doubtful that predatory violation with cover-up is what Jesus had in mind.
“Judas Maccabeus: Have children not because you love them for who they are, but have them for what they can do for you and your cause.”
your description of ‘militant fecundity’ sounds a lot like it is derived from another play-book: the Nazi practice of awarding financial benefits and medals for producing as many children ‘for the Third Reich’ as possible: the Mother’s ‘Crosses’;
also, the ‘Lebensborn’ program for unmarried women (Aryan types) to mate with Nazi officers to produce ‘Aryan’ children for Hitler’s Reich
A terrible story:
Magda Goebbels, wife of Joseph Goebbels (Hitler’s propaganda chief) had her beautiful children murdered in the bunker before the allies came to take over Berlin . . . the children were given a drug to make them sleep and then a crushed cyanide capsule was put in their mouths. The story is that Magda thought they would suffer after Hitler fell from power, and she stated according to one source that she ‘had borne them for the Third Reich’ and wanted them to die before she and her husband committed suicide themselves. . . .
we have our own sadness in this America of ours with ‘patriarchy’ treating women as ‘walking wombs’ especially in the ‘quiverfull’ movement; and we also see some of the same ideas of ‘white women’ producing more white babies for the political entities that advocate the conspiracy theory of the ‘white race’ being ‘replaced’ . . .
is this also what is so heavily connected to the harshest anti-abortion laws being formed in some states, so that even the life of the mother in danger is not a reason to terminate a pregnancy? I don’t know. But the whole scene there is designed to come down very hard on the heads of single impoverished mothers who may already have children with hunger issues in this, the wealthiest country in the world?
Do such law-makers provide the same enthusiasm for the born children in our nation?
Sadly, no. Check on the votes among a certain group in Congress to provide more money to import baby formula . . . . (?) What gives? I’ll take Nordic countries’ socialism that welcomes new life any day, and then cares for young children and provides needed parental leave and free school lunches for all with DECENT FOOD (really nutritious meals) . . .
This reminds me of a convicted sex offender who has hung around young earth creationist Kent Hovind’s compound in southern Alabama. Hovind defended (and still defends) this particular guy because the guy claims to have exposed weirdness at a notorious California retreat. I’m being vague here because there are reasons. Well, I went to the trouble of looking up what was available regarding this particular sex offender from his conviction and appeal, and it was *gross*. I’m not going any further on that, but it’s it’s obvious that Kent would rather believe the lies that this guy is telling than what was determined as factual in the jury trial and in the appeal.
There are so many people who are really willing to cut convicted sex offenders slack because it can’t have been as horrible as alleged. Oh yes, it can be a lot worse than you think. As for assertions that we shouldn’t believe the FBI, I’m one of those people who gives the police the big side eye.* I also know that it wasn’t just the FBI involved, but also the Little Rock Police Department and other agencies. I also understand computers, and I suspect there are very few people who read this blog who have installed Linux partitions on their Windows boxes–I have. I don’t use it very often because, frankly, my favorite space empire games aren’t playable on Linux. In my opinion, I think the prosecution proved the case against Duggar, but guess what? I’m not the trier of fact, that was the jury who convicted him.
* Six years ago, the local police shot and killed a man at a hotel near my house. The way it happened has made me, a middle aged white woman, so very aware of how things can go awry with the cops. So yeah, I give them the side eye now.
He/his lawyers know he’s not getting away without a sentence. His attorneys asked for no more than five years. We’ll see on Wednesday.
dee,
Frustrating yes, but I just got elected to the board again, so it will be three more years of Loren pushing. It is no so much that I have to fight, it is more like educating people who are naive or uninformed about abuse issues. As a church we are ahead of the curve. We have a lot of therapists, social workers, doctors and nurses in our congregation. We even had our County District Attorney (Biola grad) speak. She is a notable momma bear when it comes to child sexual abuse. https://youtu.be/1m-CLwM0np4
The problem is with misplaced grace. Pastors see it as leaving the 99 to rescue the one lost sheep. I see it as wishing the wolf could become a sheep. I just don’t a family church as being an appropriate place for this.
How you see it makes sense.
Putting a wolf among sheep will never succeed in turning a wolf into a sheep. But it will succeed in the wolf preying on vulnerable sheep. Surrounding a wolf with sheep is a recipe for creating predation and violation … an evil monster going after victims.
Pastors or leaders who don’t get this are delusional, and clearly not vulnerable themselves.
The (mostly male) adult pastors/leaders identify with the (mostly male) adult predators and NOT with victims, who are primarily minors and/or female.
True – I have one Windows partition on one of my Linux boxes. 😉
Very true, and it’s why I write novels about this. Offenders can appear to be pillars of the community. And truth is even stranger than fiction.
Pastor-gifted and leadership-gifted should walk lockstep with discernment-gifted, for the safety of all.
Our leaders often don’t acknowledge the other gifts, except the gift of wealth, to keep our leaders on the dole, the more $$$ coming their way, the merrier.
There are churches and leaders swimming in wealth that are dangerous for minors and women. But as Jimmy Carter said in his TED talk, religion feeds this, and many men don’t give a glance. Our dickering over theologies ignores this.
An appropriate post in a piece about a “creepy family” … the SBC family has more creepy folks than I ever dreamed!
As Russel Moore put it in a Christianity Today article “”Crisis is too small a word. It is an apocalypse … As dark a view as I had of the SBC Executive Committee, the investigation uncovers a reality far more evil and systemic than I imagined it could be.”
I prophesy that Southern Baptists will have a show of agony over this bombshell report at their upcoming annual meeting in June (Anaheim CA). They will sling snot and call out to God to change them. They will plead to the Creator for forgiveness for their wayward denomination. They will pass a resolution to deal with abuse and abusers in their ranks. Then the thousands of pastors/messengers attending the conference will all return to cities across America and conduct business as usual, hoping that the world will forget the awful transgressions by hundreds of their church leaders.
The SBC is done … it just hasn’t quit yet. Years ago, it surrendered its denominational gifting of evangelism. Theological drift to New Calvinism essentially finished that off. Southern Baptists no longer carry the message of the Cross to every tribe, tongue and nation … they no longer proclaim that whosoever will may come. Flesh, not Spirit, now reigns within SBC ranks.
As in “Stick a fork in them, they’re done”?
“Dead but won’t lie down”?
Max,
P.S. Max! You’re back!
I’m convinced some of these adult Pastors//Leaders are closet predators themselves, even if they don’t dare Do the Deed themselves. They can do it vicariously by “counseling” their pet pedos or working JUICY confessions out of perps or even JUICIER descriptions out of victims. A form of “oOrn for the Pious” – Must stay RESPECTABLE, you know.
Except now the twist is “Under the Blood(TM)” – NOT “under grace”, SEE? SEE? SEE?
“Ees no slavery in Russia – here we call it SERVITUDE!”
— one of the (pre-Putin) Tsars
Does anybody else think that Josh’s expression in his mug shot is Smug Superiority?
Smug while avoiding the Duping-delight Smirk of PCCP Wilson’s Pet Pedo?
127 images. I’m sorry but he should be ….um, “eunuched?”
53 years ago my school taught us at age 14, boys and men should accept no responsibility towards others because women and girls weren’t to have boundaries. Now look at the quivering wrecks and maniacs, everywhere. Maybe your country is decentralised, maybe it was slow to go that way. The world gets like that. But where were the churches? The Roman church wasn’t praying, and that’s one of the biggest of them. Counter-counter-counter-counter weaponisation won’t impress.
Will you please be so kind as to explain how this was taught? Granted I am an American, but I lived in the UK after the time you describe, and never heard about this. I would like to have a better understanding of how you were failed.
Actually, this comes from chapter 6 of Mary Pride’s “The Way Home.” Subheading it entitled “Evangelism through Reproduction.” I do note some of the similarities with some of the above programs. Largly, this book was foundational in getting the “Quiverfull” movement going. Now I come from a church where large families ar the norm, but no one would dream of USING (Word chosen carefully) their children for any such purpose.
The “Undead”?
I haven’t read Mary Pride, but some women in my church tried to do this. One of them was at risk of dying if she had another pregnancy (she already had three children). Another complained in detail that her husband did not have an adequate drive. In fact, none of the husbands actually wanted more children, so these women had moved on from submitting to their husbands: they were submitting to the Lord… or so they claimed.
When they got onto this topic at our mothers’ group’s prayer meetings, I could not distinguish between emotional support and bullying.
Actual Chapter Heading in so many words?
No Skubalon?
I’ve heard it called “Bedroom Evangelism”, but that was an outsider’s description.
Didn’t know it was also on the inside.