Did Professor Stephen Kershnar, SUNY Fredonia, Say That Having Sex With a 1-Year-Old Child Is Not Quite Obviously Wrong to Him?

Child crying link

“My mother said I must always be intolerant of ignorance but understanding of illiteracy. That some people, unable to go to school, were more educated and more intelligent than college professors”  Maya Angelou


My mom will enter her assisted living facility on 2/8. I hope I made the right choice since I had a few options. This stuff is hard.


When I first saw this tweet this morning, I felt for sure that this was a mistake. I was wrong.


The first thing I did was look him up on the SUNY Fredonia website. 

Stephen Kershnar is a distinguished teaching professor in the philosophy department at the State University of New York at Fredonia and an attorney. He focuses on applied ethics and political philosophy. Kershnar has written one hundred articles and book chapters on such diverse topics as abortion, adult-child sex, hell, most valuable player, pornography, punishment, sexual fantasies, slavery, and torture.

Did you read the highlighted section? I did so I knew something was up. I then saw the Office of the President tweeted the following.

I had to take my mother to urgent care for an infection. By the time I finished listening to the following video, this stuff went viral.

In the video, go to mark 30;40-55:00 to listen to his comments. I listen to this nonsense so you won’t have to do so.

The following are some points from the video. Please feel free to correct my points.

  • Is adult-child sex harmful? Well, evolution prepares the body to have sex around 12 years old so maybe it’s not so harmful.
  • Children are coerced all the time. For example, parents make a kid go to his sister’s ballet recital. So is coercion bad?
  • How do we know that a child who is a willing participant in sex isn’t getting something(I think he means positive) from the experience?
  • Exploitation doesn’t necessarily mean that something is wrong.
  • He claims he doesn’t engage in child-adult sex so he is the one able to make the argument more effectively. (ed: I say “Check his computer…)
  • He doesn’t think something should be criminalized just because it has a bad outcome. I think he used the “fast food is bad for you” argument. But it shouldn’t be criminalized.
  • The European age of consent is 12- 13 years old.
  • The culture itself makes children feel victimized if they had sex, even as willing participants. The child feels bad if they enjoyed the encounter.
  • He brought up the argument that a 23-year-old man shouldn’t be criminalized for having sex with a 16-year-old person. They discussed the Romeo and Juliet laws and felt they should be extended. This means an 18-year-old man wouldn’t be punished for having sex with a 17-year-old girl.
  • Maybe the age of consent should be 14. The high age of consent in the US is ridiculous.
  • There should be no criminal penalties for an adult having sex with a prepubescent child. (I hope I didn’t get this wrong since it was a throwaway comment in the stream

He made one mistake. He stated that Law and Order SVU had an episode in which Olivia Benson met the man with whom she had a sexual relationship when she was in her teens and it was a positive experience. However, if one watches the entire episode, which I did, one would discover that Olivia felt incredibly used and hurt at the end of the episode. It was not a sunshine and roses ending.

The NY Post reported: SUNY professor under review after ‘reprehensible’ video emerges of him supporting pedophilia

Kershnar goes on to say: “One is even if you are looking for a threshold. Let’s say there’s a threshold. I’m making this number up, but let’s say it’s at age 8. Still, that tells you that some adult sex is permissible.

“Second, the notion that it’s wrong even with a 1-year-old is not quite obvious to me,” he says.

I expect that this will be hitting all the news outlets in the coming day. I sure hope that someone has checked his computers. If having sex with a 1-year old baby is not obviously wrong to him, I would imagine that watching it on a computer is even less morally wrong. But then again, he claims he’s a stand-up sort of guy. Why do I feel like I need to take a shower?

PS I know he made a couple of good points but, in my opinion, he made lots of other statements that are morally repugnant to me.

Comments

Did Professor Stephen Kershnar, SUNY Fredonia, Say That Having Sex With a 1-Year-Old Child Is Not Quite Obviously Wrong to Him? — 103 Comments

  1. I guess I should not be reading TWW on a laptop, I very nearly hurled the one I’m currently writing on into the wall opposite from me.

    This dude has some serious problems, although the particular subject of this post is probably the absolute worst of all the really really bad opinions this guy holds. What did come up when I did a search on this guy, practically the first thing, was a 2019 article where he expresses his belief in Asian “romantic preference” and that was heavily criticized. The embedded tweets also have him state there is a “liberal argument for slavery” and he believes women’s job applications should be discounted when hiring. Oh yeah, and apparently an article called “Adult-Child Sex: A Philosophical Defense.”

    Oh, and he has tenure.

    One person in the article describing Kershnar’s many beliefs said that it looked like his CV was one long “playing devil’s advocate” but *wow*.

    https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/stephen-kershnar-asian-fetish-article/

    Thing is, this stuff was known in 2019 and Fredonia did nothing about him then, what makes us think they will do anything about him now?

  2. As the two men bring up the topic at the 30 minute mark, they revel in the attention, abeit negative, they will get. Then they chuckle, chuckle, like two boys savoring being caught naughty. ‘Cuz, attention.

    Attention-getting, by any means, is powerful for some people. Even with a PhD, they go for the attention grab. Big abyss of a soul hole for supposedly grown-up men. Sick.

  3. This is the kind of filthy mentally ill deranged people teaching our children anyone who would think that this is normal and that it’s OK needs to be taken off this earth and sent to hell where they came from I am so sick of the perverse and excepting nature of people in high positions allowing this criminal dangerous do you be allowed to even walk the streets let alone have a teaching position he needs to be arrested immediately

  4. I have to wonder whether the advocacy of controversial views might be a form of attention-seeking.

    Sort of the way broadcast television ‘pushed the envelope’ decades ago, seeking audience share. More recent specific examples are not hard to notice.

    The basic issue, I think, is that humans should be viewed as ‘ends,’ and not ‘means’ of other humans. The expressed views seem to me to regard not-fully-matured humans to be, in effect, objects that may be used for enjoyment. It’s IMO a sociopathic point of view. OTOH, IMO a lot of our society is organized around what effectively is a posture that people actually are means to others’ ends — specifically the less powerfull are the means to the ends of the more powerful, and that is all right, proper and normal. But to proceed too far down that line of thought would press into ‘political’ territory, and so I’ll stop. But there is a connection to TWW concerns — in terms of power hierarchies (specifically the contrast between Jesus’ vision of ‘hierarchy of self-giving love’ and the lived reality in all kinds of human communities of ‘hierarchies of power and control’).

  5. I’m a child sex trafficking survivor birth-4, 9-14. These ppl believe what he is saying and believe they are right.

  6. Chellby:
    I’m a child sex trafficking survivor birth-4, 9-14. These ppl believe what he is saying and believe they are right.

    My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry for what you have endured.Thank you for being willing to speak out on this post.
    MOD: Corrected quote italics. GBTC

  7. dee: They only react when they think the publicity will be damaging to the coffers.

    That’s right. The university won’t do anything until the cost of not removing him becomes more than the cost of keeping him as a tenured professor. Because, absent actual nefarious acts and/or harm, he’s either going to keep his job, or the university is going to pay to make him leave. It just has to be made more expensive for the university to keep him before they’ll think about cutting him loose.

  8. “My mom will enter her assisted living facility on 2/8. I hope I made the right choice since I had a few options. This stuff is hard.”

    I’ve been there. I understand. I’m praying … that your mother’s transition to her new home goes well … that the Lord will give you peace.

  9. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: One person in the article describing Kershnar’s many beliefs said that it looked like his CV was one long “playing devil’s advocate”

    He is not playing that role, he ‘is’ pleading this evil case on the devil’s behalf.

    “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Jesus, Matthew 25)

  10. Ava Aaronson: Then they chuckle, chuckle, like two boys savoring being caught naughty.

    The sound of an evil host walking planet earth, seeking whom they may devour.

  11. David willey: I am so sick of the perverse and excepting nature of people in high positions allowing this criminal dangerous do you be allowed to even walk the streets let alone have a teaching position he needs to be arrested immediately

    Someone who teaches so passionately about a particular sin is most likely living it.

  12. This example of immoral instruction is the very reason that parents should carefully consider institutions of higher learning to send their children to … this is lower teaching and lower learning at its worst.

  13. dee: They only react when they think the publicity will be damaging to the coffers.

    “Then He will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed …” (Jesus, Matthew 25:41)

    The “left” gets away with way too much and the “right” ain’t much to write home about either. Those who sell their souls to fill the coffers will hear Jesus say this to them.

  14. You don’t have to be a Christian Nationalist (I am not one) to know there is something rotten in the state of America. Sadly, the conversation between Dee and Dee (Muslin) touches on why some of this depravity is allowed to continue.

    Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: It just has to be made more expensive for the university to keep him before they’ll think about cutting him loose.

    There is so very much wrong in this situation. I would be surprised if he wasn’t already on the FBI’s radar but that doesn’t mean they had any actionable evidence to work with. Given some of his documented opinions, has he made any/many trips to Thailand over the years? That would not be surprising.

    Chellby: I’m a child sex trafficking survivor birth-4, 9-14. These ppl believe what he is saying and believe they are right.

    May God continue to grant you His grace and peace.

  15. Max–so totally agree with you regarding the left and the right.

    My grandma used to teach us that there really is a slippery slope. She made sure all her grandkids knew there is “good sex” and “bad sex” and that God Almighty alone sets those parameters. And she made us know every last one of us will be tempted in some way to put our foot on that slope. In her generation what she saw as the first slip on the slope was easy divorce. She full well understood abuse, having grown up in an abusive home of the worst sort, and her own mother had trafficked her. But she made blame well sure her grandkids used their heads in romance as well as their hearts. The old line “never date a man or woman you would not want to marry” was constant fodder from her. She fully supported those who took their time, married what they thought was well, and then were mistreated. She fully supported their escape. What she opposed was the quick and easy fall in love marry fall out of love divorce of her generation. She warned my mom back in the 30’s that if that took hold and was accepted, there was NO perversion that would not ultimately be accepted, and in pretty accurate predictions as to what order.

    And so today we excuse porn in schools as diversity. Nope, not buying that. A good writer can get you to diversity without the “graphics.” We excuse what we watch on tv and the movies as “just gritty reality.” Nope, trash is still trash, and trashy behavior is still trashy behavior. We tolerate preachers that explain away a whole host of deviancies and then attack anyone pointing out the Almighty has forbidden said behaviors.

    We become angry if anyone says “our” pet sin is sin.

    So when it comes right down to it, what Dee has written about today is not only disgusting, sickening, and hopefully criminal, but it should be expected.

    Because as my grandma used to tell us, when you don’t clean up your kitchen why act shocked when the roaches and rats show up?

  16. This is far from an isolated case, unfortunately. The Radical Left has been trying to normalize pedophilia for a while now, and their campaign is revving up. They keep floating trial balloons to see what they can get away with. They want to wear people down with the insidious, ever-accelerating propaganda. I think they don’t realize how viscerally and instinctively normal people hate what they’re peddling.

    BTW Dee, so sorry about all you’re going through right now. Prayers!

  17. Max: Someone who teaches so passionately about a particular sin is most likely living it.

    Like Rush Limbaugh, Number One Fanboy of the War on Drugs while hiding his secret Oxycontin addiction.
    Like preacher after preacher screaming from the pulpit about some (usually Homo-) Pelvic Issue.

  18. Did said professor’s video say anything about NAMBLA sponsorship?
    Or something called “The Rene Guyon Society”?

  19. God have mercy

    . . . for some forms of evil, there are ‘no words’

    Dee, I remember when my good father was legally blind and could no longer drive, and then my mother was taken down by a stroke, so that driving for her was out of the question. We children found a wonderful assisted-living facility for them.
    My brother bought their house and car, and my sister arranged the banking and finances, and my husband and I brought them over to our home on weekends for years. It worked out but I came to illness myself and eventually and avoided surgery, because we were the only ones near to my parents to take them to appointments and such, so when they passed, years later, I had to have many surgeries . . .

    what I learned was that it is important for people who are care-givers to also take care of their OWN health, physical, dental, and emotional. I learned that taking care of oneself in the midst of care-giving is NOT an option to be ‘put off’ without heavy consequences.

    Find ways to maintain your own health, Dee, and don’t ‘put off’ what is important. You can’t help your Mom if you are not taking care of yourself. You have my prayers. Sometimes there are no ‘easy’ answers, but there is always a way forward that can be found that is ‘best’. 🙂 God Bless!

  20. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Students should start picketing, peacefully, and getting their college transfer papers in order.

    I would be concerned about students who ‘want’ to take classes under this guy if he doesn’t go. Weird attracts weird.

  21. I went over and checked “Rate My Professors” and I see that people are already hitting Kershnar’s profile and downrating him based on the latest news. (I expect RMP to clear out these obvious drive-by reviews, just like Yelp does for restaurants that make it into the news.) Currently his rating is at 3.6 out of 5. Just as a really bad control, I checked to see what the rating was for a friend of mine currently teaching at an Utah university. They’ve got a 3 out of 5 but it’s super clear why their rating is so low–they make you work for the grade. You have to do the readings, you have to take the tests, you cannot slack off. For the record, my friend is tenured as well.

    Back in the day, I knew of professors who excited a lot of negative opinion, but that wasn’t hard to do that at UT Austin. One guy (really mild mannered, now retired) was a classical Marxist economist (aka NOT A REVOLUTIONARY), also tenured. Every other year, when the Legislature came to town, some representative was bound to come stark staring unglued that the University was still employing this guy and would denounce him from the floor of the state house. But the guy was tenured, retired a few years back and gee, we still have a capitalistic system in place.

    The difference between Kershnar and my friend and the econ prof, though, is that what Kershnar proposes is just so flatly illegal and disgusting. And there’s no way to make it legal, because we, as a society, have decided as a bright line rule that sex with children is illegal, period, end of story. I am hard-pressed to think of any affirmative defense to sexual abuse statutes in the various states. Not even “well I thought she was 18” is a defense.

  22. dee,

    To boot, he is clearly either ill informed, or using incorrect info to deceive. Only place in Europe I have spent time is Switzerland. Just checked with friend that is a part of the ETG. Age of consent is 16, similar to much of the US. IF he is a professor, he knows this, or should know. 12-13=jail. I just wonder what is on his computer, he may think he is smart, but than again, so did a certain full quiver type that was caught out………

    This is the downside of tenure policies, and likely why places like Liberty don’t have them.

  23. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Back in the day, I knew of professors who excited a lot of negative opinion, but that wasn’t hard to do that at UT Austin. One guy (really mild mannered, now retired) was a classical Marxist economist (aka NOT A REVOLUTIONARY), also tenured. Every other year, when the Legislature came to town, some representative was bound to come stark staring unglued that the University was still employing this guy and would denounce him from the floor of the state house. But the guy was tenured, retired a few years back and gee, we still have a capitalistic system in place.

    Most college economics and PoliSci departments had at least ONE Marxist in the 70s-80s. Nothing unusual to see here, Diversity of opinions, you know. The ones I knew couldn’t even change a light bulb, much less start a revolution.

  24. Judas Maccabeus: The ones I knew couldn’t even change a light bulb, much less start a revolution.

    More like Marx Fanboys?
    I remember several USSR Fanboys in the Social Justice movement of the 1970s-80s.

  25. Dee, you continue to be in my prayers for you and your mom. You’re right, it’s hard. You always end up second-guessing yourself, no matter what you do. I remember when I had to put my mom in assisted living. The only ghastly saving grace was that I no longer had to worry how she was doing when I had to leave her alone to go to work. Furthermore, I simply didn’t have the strength to help her bathe or shower, it took two people. At the time I had weird hours, so I was able to pop in at unexpected times to check on her. You made the best (very difficult) decision that you could.

  26. Catholic Gate-Crasher: The Radical Left has been trying to normalize pedophilia for a while now, and their campaign is revving up

    Says you without presenting any evidence.
    It is a lie that some dishonest people use for their own purposes. Don’t we have enough ridiculous fables? How about keeping the focus on real child sex abusers amongst the Catholic church, SBC and associates of Epstein and his ilk?

  27. Many years ago as a first grade teacher, we had a student in my school who was sent to the nurse for a bladder infection. It turned out that she had gonorrhea. They did find out who did it and were able to put him away for several years, but the trauma to the child and her kindergarten age sister (who was terrified of the entire situation) wasn’t something that would ever go away. How a college professor could even entertain such views in public is beyond my imagination. The reason we have older age of consent laws is that we no longer live in the Middle Ages when girls were promised to others from a very tender age. There are still some countries in the world that have these practices, but it’s illegal in the Americas and Europe.

  28. Headless Unicorn Guy: More like Marx Fanboys?
    I remember several USSR Fanboys in the Social Justice movement of the 1970s-80s.

    They couldn’t change a light bulb either. My suspicion is that most of the YRR fanboys would not know how to screw one in. Too much like work.

  29. The angelic host in heaven in charge of producing millstones must be working overtime these days.

  30. Catholic Gate-Crasher: This is far from an isolated case, unfortunately. The Radical Left has been trying .

    I snipped the rest of the big lie here because it does not need to be repeated.

    STOP THIS NOW. There is NOBODY on the “radical left” who is promoting pedophilia. We don’t even hardly HAVE a “radical left” in a country that is decidedly center right. I HATE THIS. Seriously, this is the kind of nonsense that is absolutely going to keep me outside the church for the rest of my life because when the so called “faithful” spread garbage like this, I don’t want to have anything to do with you!

  31. dee: I agree. It creeped me out.

    There’s precedent for these academic experts’ absurd behavior.

    “Andrew Jeremy Wakefield is a British anti-vaccine activist, former physician, and discredited academic who was struck off the medical register for his involvement in The Lancet MMR autism fraud, a 1998 study that falsely claimed a link between the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and autism.”

    In the state where we live, we have seen measles outbreaks and deaths due to Wakefield’s false claims as an authority.

    Those who have studied Wakefield’s professional behavior claim some sociopaths attain title & authority just so they can misuse it for harm. Power. Narcissism. Evil. Even to the death of vulnerable people.

  32. Headless Unicorn Guy: I remember several USSR Fanboys in the Social Justice movement of the 1970s-80s.

    They could not change a lightbulb either. Had some of those in college too. Did not like to get their hands dirty.

  33. linda: Max–so totally agree with you regarding the left and the right.

    “The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.” (Ecclesiastes 10:2)

  34. Old Timer,

    Thank you so much for your helpful comment. Today was a tough day. I took my mom to see a palliative care specialist at Duke and they are starting her on some new meds to help her with anxiety. I cleared out one closet of clothes-3 more clothes closets to go! I am kind of getting to the end of my rope in terms of caring for all her medical and medication needs along with the difficulties of extreme age. Today the doctor began discussing that she may need hospice in the none too distant future due to her heart failure.

    I truly need round-the-clock care. I worry that she will call me in the middle of the night. I have not been able to think about going away since her decline in the last month. YOu are correct. I know I will feel so much better once this is completed.

  35. dee,

    Last year a friend started InHome Hospice for her 90+ year old mom (now living with one of the adult kids).

    What a relief for the family, adult kids and grandchildren.

  36. Yikes. To the two people who ripped me to shreds for merely expressing my opinion on a public forum: I’m sorry, but if you don’t know about the secular Left’s growing promotion of pedophilia, you are not paying attention. This isn’t a conspiracy theory. This is TED Talk material. Literally. And yes, I can provide evidence. Good grief, do you really think this professor is an isolated case?

    Also, kindly do not tell me to “stop it now.” I have a really low tolerance for control freakery.

  37. Judas Maccabeus: This is the downside of tenure policies, and likely why places like Liberty don’t have them.

    I don’t assume you mean to suggest Liberty as a bastion of morality, academic freedom, or wise control of higher learning… not that the three are mutually exclusive. The whims of the Falwells have controlled faculty. Here’s an explanation, quoting Will E. Young. Oh, and Liberty does have tenure in the law school at Liberty because otherwise it would not be accredited. If Liberty was aiming for purity of thought, they made a rather large and calculated exception.

    (The TWW post of 3 February offers a refresher about Liberty. My heart goes out to the students. I’ve known a few.)

    One cause of perpetual insecurity at Liberty is the school’s militant refusal to award tenure to any faculty member (outside the law school, which must offer it for accreditation). Instructors are instead hired on year-to-year contracts; during the spring semester, they find out whether they will be coming back the next fall….

    Late-notice faculty removals have also become more commonplace, according to [former Liberty history professor Brian] Melton, stemming in part from Falwell’s stated desire to tame the teaching corps. “He considers the faculty to be disposable beasts of burden,” Melton says. Last summer, 14 professors at Liberty’s School of Education were suddenly told that their contracts would not be renewed as part of what former Liberty spokesman Len Stevens called a “reorganization.” This June, a dozen faculty members at Liberty’s School of Divinity were notified that their contracts would not be renewed. By that late in the year, it is too late to find another job in higher education for the fall.

    For former faculty members, Liberty’s culture of fear can live on. The school often requires terminated professors to sign a nondisclosure agreement if they want their severance packages, several told me — a practice that is extremely uncommon in higher education, according to Robert Bezemek, a California lawyer who represents labor unions at universities….

    “There is zero trust between the administration and faculty,” Melton says.

    https://academeblog.org/2019/07/26/it-cant-happen-here-maybe-for-education-it-already-has/

  38. Ava Aaronson: Those who have studied Wakefield’s professional behavior claim some sociopaths attain title & authority just so they can misuse it for harm. Power. Narcissism. Evil. Even to the death of vulnerable people.

    So, sadism, too.

    In the case of the SUNY Fredonia professor, it includes sexual violation.

    Sadism is “the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.”

    Adults violating children is sadistic. Power over, to humiliate, inflict pain, violate.

    Academic standing plus authority in Academia and the world at large is a platform. It is an opportunity to do good or do harm. Some do harm.

    The rest of us can see it for what it is. ‘Cuz we have eyes and brains, too. Moreover, hearts, values, and a conscience.

    Right and wrong go beyond academic standing and authority. Too bad SUNY Fredonia doesn’t get it.

    Penn State with Sandusky found out the hard way, via the DOJ.

  39. SK is another example of an academic intellectual who isn’t very smart. Tenure or not, SK won’t survive this – hopefully, his teaching career is over. Just as statutes of limitation should never protect child abusers, college tenure should never protect instructors with such perverted views. We’ve become so open-minded in American academia, that our brains have fallen out.

  40. Ava Aaronson: Right and wrong go beyond academic standing and authority.

    “Every man does what is right in his own eyes” should have better moral boundaries in our institutions of higher learning … if not, they merge into lower learning of the worst degree.

  41. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: a country that is decidedly center right

    I’m not sure how “center right” is defined these days … the center right appears to be more left than it used to be, but I have the better part of a century on earth to compare it to. It’s sorta like being neither hot or cold, just lukewarm, and Jesus would spit it out.

  42. Dee,
    I am praying you find just the right kind of care for your mom. My parents deteriorated suddenly last summer. After trying meals on wheels and caregiver visits, my sister and I realized (both of us living far away) that they needed assisted living. We moved them in December, and it has been a godsend. Lots of activities for my dad (minor dementia) and good food; complete memory card for my step-mom. Not an easy decision, but the right one. They are still happily together and in familiar surroundings. After one of them passes, the remaining parent may move closer to their daughter, but we are okay for now and not worrying so much about those midnight phone calls.

  43. Catholic Gate-Crasher: This is far from an isolated case, unfortunately. The Radical Left has been trying to normalize pedophilia for a while now, and their campaign is revving up.

    Well, those from the “radical right” keep acting on it so I guess they’re peas in a pod.

    This clown thinks it’s fashionable to push buttons. I don’t think he’s “radical left” any more than rank and file Catholics support pedophile priests or the system that protects them.

    He probably considers himself an “extreme libertarian”.

    Completely clueless academic, I’ve seen it before. They ask the burning questions like “if they call it BACON, why do you FRY it”

    A class A clown.

    Rather than lob grenades at the “left” and “right” – fuse together and shut him down.

  44. Max love your quote but um, a bit out of context, yes lol?

    I am not thrilled with either the right or left politically. I am neither a fundamentalist nor a liberal doctrinally. And I am thoroughly fed up with the idea “judge not” means we can exercise no discernment.

    I am not into clothesline holiness nor beauty/barber shop holiness, but I do enjoy some of the holiness churches online….especially from Beaverton Pa. Like a visit with my grandma in many ways.

    I used to have a preacher tell us that if you have to ask if something is clean or dirty, its dirty. In today’s world we are told our clothes will stink unless we add perfume enough they reek of it for weeks or months. Nope, clean clothes will still be fresh next season. Problem is folks are not getting clean clothes.

    We are also told the rot of sin (mine included!) is anything but sin. And calling it sin will make us bigoted, unloving jerks. Nope. Sin is still sin. Jesus is still the answer.

    Dee–praying re your mom. This is really tough! Don’t over do physically!

    On a brighter not, the sun has come out here in the Ozarks after quite a heavy snow fall. We did not get the forecast ice storm, which is good. I have so spoiled the back yard birds with extra food and warm water some now come to the window and peck to tell me when the feeders are empty. Beauty surrounds us, even as we continue as a state and county dealing with horrid covid numbers. Before the storm the resurrection lilies, crocuses, and tulips were sending up shoots. Spring will come, and covid will retreat someday. In the meantime, always and ever, there is Christ.

    In the same way, evil will one day lose the battle. Decisively, and forever. Because there is Christ.

  45. Jack: “left” and “right”

    Assigning folks to the left or right to me is like saying some Americans are more reprobate than others. Our citizenry is a mess in-church and out-church. Organized religion ain’t scaring the devil much these days … heck, the old snake has set up camp in a lot of religious circles, as TWW bears testimony. It’s no surprise that this academic fool feels free to think and speak any way he wants to … that’s what we’ve become as a people … the moral standard is on a downward spiral and some folks are thrilled that it is. We’ve lost our way.

  46. A big problem, obviously, with this disturbing issue, is the lack of leadership, especially religious or spiritual leadership, not “keeping a short account” of addressing this issue, both working in circumstances to protect women and children and teaching a strong stance “out loud” and often. It seems to me, that secular counsel has achieved better in this area. Not to say I agree with all that secular, or religious, academia has produced. Was the Spotlight on abuse issues due to politically left or politically right? I’m not sure. I’m just glad it got done. I think it’s better than the old days when people didn’t talk about these things, let alone work to act against these things.

    Ava Aaronson,

    Please keep in mind here, that I’m vaccinated, as are my kids (although I don’t have the adjuvants of the MMR, because of when I was born. I had measles when I was young with 5 older siblings). I don’t understand why Andrew Wakefield’s name was brought up in a discussion thread about a disturbing professor not drawing a hard line against pedophilia. I’ve heard recently, that kids and adults in the US are less healthy than other first world countries. I don’t think that’s Andrew Wakefield’s fault. There’s several other well known elites who could have been used as examples of not protecting children against sexual abuse. I just don’t get your example.

  47. Ella: A big problem, obviously, with this disturbing issue, is the lack of leadership, especially religious or spiritual leadership

    Indeed! We have a spiritual leadership crisis in America! At the root of these problems is a lack of influence by the Church to steer American morality. The church used to be counter-culture to the world; now it is a sub-culture of it in many places. Whenever God begins to move to make a difference on the planet, he looks for a man to stand in the gap … I sure hope He’s trying to locate one, since the current pulpit ain’t scaring the hell out of America.

  48. Max,

    Yes, currently the pulpit doesn’t scare the hell out of America. Sometimes I think earlier pulpits lost their influence by scaring the hell into vulnerable people. Sociopaths have never been scared, nor do they have a healthy dose of shame.

  49. Max,

    I’m far from convinced that “the church” deserves to lead America toward morality right now. The noisiest voices seem to be the kookiest.

    Maybe our faith needs to remain quiet a while, to listen humbly.

    I think that’s what a lot of TWW folks are doing, whether or not we have a healthy local congregation. Perhaps there is more strength in this approach than we realize.

  50. Max: Organized religion ain’t scaring the devil much these days … heck, the old snake has set up camp in a lot of religious circles, as TWW bears testimony. It’s no surprise that this academic fool feels free to think and speak any way he wants to … that’s what we’ve become as a people … the moral standard is on a downward spiral and some folks are thrilled that it is. We’ve lost our way.

    It’s not a devil. If there is one then it’s a sloth. Sitting back and laughing.

    Devil is a cop out. This is personal responsibility. There’s no magic bullet. Only our personal choice.

    If prayers act in any real way, it’s to galvanize those that are already good to speak up.

    The fact is, this clown’s moral relativism can be shotgunned full of holes by constitution. It’s already established that all people have inalienable rights the moment they’re born.

    A child cannot abrogate those rights, because it has been determined they can’t understand these rights.

    Just a person could be considered an adult at 14 in the Roman Empire that doesn’t translate to the same rationale now. Ie the Romans weren’t necessarily right. And most didn’t live past 30, meaning middle age would have been the late teens.

    The society (religious and otherwise) needs to call out his clownship – tell him he’s most unfunny and send him packing.

  51. Friend: I’m far from convinced that “the church” deserves to lead America toward morality right now. The noisiest voices seem to be the kookiest.

    Maybe our faith needs to remain quiet a while, to listen humbly.

    If religion was the solution, there would be no more problems.

    I agree with this sentiment – God will not act unless it is by our hands.

    As I’ve said before, Jesus doesn’t speak to everyone, but his human followers can.

  52. Jack: This is personal responsibility.

    Scripture says there are three things that can trip us up: the world, the flesh, and the devil. The flesh has obviously got ahold of Dr. Kershnar and in a very sick way.

    Jack: The society (religious and otherwise) needs to call out his clownship – tell him he’s most unfunny and send him packing.

    Yes, society needs to be shouting “NO!!” from the rooftops, but I wouldn’t strain too hard to hear it.

  53. Friend: I’m far from convinced that “the church” deserves to lead America toward morality right now. The noisiest voices seem to be the kookiest.

    Agreed. In it’s current spiritual condition, the organized church would just add to the confusion.

    Friend: Maybe our faith needs to remain quiet a while

    “There is a season, a time appointed, for everything … A time to keep silent and a time to speak” (Ecclesiastes 3)

    So, I do.

  54. Jack: This clown thinks it’s fashionable to push buttons. I don’t think he’s “radical left” any more than rank and file Catholics support pedophile priests or the system that protects them.

    He probably considers himself an “extreme libertarian”.

    I tend to agree that it is not a ‘right’ or ‘left’ matter here but it is ‘extreme’ and ‘extreme libertarian’ values do seem to want ‘freedom to do as you PLEASE without regard to norms or limitations that the rest of society considers ‘responsible’ . . . that no ‘consideration’ is needed for the protection of an innocent child from a sexual predator seems a huge red light that this man’s ‘philosophy’ and ‘ethic’ is EXTREMELY irresponsible of any thought to the innocent child’s freedom from being harmed, being defenseless against a molester intent on attacking the little one.

    What I have seen of ‘libertarianism’ in our own society shows writings and behaviors that sometimes exceed what is rational and show CONTEMPT for the rights of ‘the common good’ and the innocent and the helpless.

    If we go ‘right’ and ‘left’,
    you have to also point to the pedophiles on the right who have ‘hosted’ politicians and princes. It’s not a pretty sight, no. But there are photos and comments that show this pedophile was much ‘accepted’ among some famous folk on the right, sadly.

    Yep, your comment makes sense to me. The guy’s a nut-case at best, and a promoter of evil at worst. What a mess!

  55. Max: Yes, society needs to be shouting “NO!!” from the rooftops, but I wouldn’t strain too hard to hear it.

    This time they’re shouting. After all, he’s not a preacher.

    FREDONIA, N.Y. — Outrage continues to grow over a SUNY Fredonia professor’s comments suggesting that adult-child sex is acceptable.

    The university canceled all of philosophy professor Stephen Kershnar’s classes Thursday.

    More than 10,000 people have signed this online petition since Wednesday, calling for SUNY Fredonia to fire Kershnar.

    https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/education/growing-call-for-suny-fredonia-to-terminate-professor-after-adult-child-sex-comments-go-viral/71-cfe878fc-ac8d-4412-9915-f4b84931a981

  56. Friend: This time they’re shouting. After all, he’s not a preacher.

    Praise the Lord! Mr. Kershnar needs to go, whether he’s a preacher or not!

    “”There’s no criminal anything here. There’s no advocacy, there’s no facilitation, there’s no aiding and abetting. They’re just debating these things back and forth as philosophy professors in a college,” attorney Paul Cambria said.”

    Well, these philosophy professors need to find something else to debate about! Good Lord, I doubt that parents of students there want to spend tuition money for such deviant trash-talk. The philosophy staff at SUNY need to focus on the usual stuff like “If I try to fail, but succeed, which one did I do?” You succeeded in failure, Dr. Kershnar … move along.

  57. christiane: The guy’s a nut-case at best, and a promoter of evil at worst.

    And a college professor!! As my dear Dad would say “I wouldn’t trust him any farther than I could throw him.”

  58. Friend: One cause of perpetual insecurity at Liberty is the school’s militant refusal to award tenure to any faculty member (outside the law school, which must offer it for accreditation). Instructors are instead hired on year-to-year contracts; during the spring semester, they find out whether they will be coming back the next fall….

    Academic tenure is what enables characters like this to continue to teach, and spew this nonsense. I don’t endorse some of the stuff the Falwells have done, I have seen tenure enable people that should have been shown the door to have lifetime employment. I even knew one associate professor that literally got tenure by accident. Once given, that are really hard to fire.

    This specimen would have been gone years before if he had not gotten tenure.

  59. Judas Maccabeus,

    This guy is not typical of tenured faculty, or of New Yorkers, or men, or philosophers, or Americans, or of anything except evil.

    Evil people seek positions from which they cannot easily be removed. In other news, water is wet.

    University faculty members often lack job security, and their wages tend to be low. I’ve been taught by some people with tenure—probably several other folks here have, too. I’m rather glad that mature scholars are able to focus on teaching instead of wondering where their next meal is coming from.

  60. Ella,

    The example has to do with studies of the type of person that achieves tenure in their field only to turn on the consensus of their peers with outrageous claims (the pedophile professors) and/or fraudulent research (Wakefield).

    Why would a trained tenured professional do this? The studies answer this question.

    There is precedent for this behavior.

  61. Ella: example.

    Hi again, Ella.
    Note above I explained how there are studies of those who rise to be authorities in their fields, only to then use that authority to absurdly & fraudulently turn against their peers’ consensus in that very field of trained professionals.

    Studies mention Wakefield as a type.
    I believe Kershnar and Russell are also this type.
    Another example would be Piper, Wilson, & Rigney in teaching that Empathy is sin.

  62. Max: God begins to move to make a difference on the planet, he looks for a man to stand in the gap … I sure hope He’s trying to locate one, since the current pulpit ain’t scaring the hell out of America.

    The “one strong man” to lead us idea brings risks all its own.

    I know it’s a very biblical idea but we need to keep in mind that liberal democracy such as the American republic was not even a concept.

    The old testament was steeped in Iron age monotheism and Paul’s missives were to convince the Romans that christianity was no threat to them. Tall order given that the founder had been executed for sedition.

    It takes everyone to make a difference, working together. “One strong man” usually doesn’t end well.

  63. Jack: He probably considers himself an “extreme libertarian”.

    He actually calls himself a “liberal” to discredit the real thing.

    And he interferes in property law.

    On O W Holmes Jr see Louis Menand’s The Metaphysical Club 2001.

  64. Catholic Gate-Crasher: Radical Left

    christiane: What I have seen of ‘libertarianism’ in our own society shows writings and behaviors that sometimes exceed what is rational and show CONTEMPT for the rights of ‘the common good’ and the innocent and the helpless.

    Don’t forget the Far “Right” as promoted from the head office enclave’s friends in the Far East.

    (Don’t forget Animal Farm)

    Max: the world

    And the world.

  65. “He stated that Law and Order SVU had an episode in which Olivia Benson met the man with whom she had a sexual relationship when she was in her teens and it was a positive experience.”

    Did he go to church in Poland? Mme Giselle was acting alone. Ep-who?

    I met a traumatised BBC (studio) cameraman.

  66. David willey: [ac]cepting nature of people in high positions allowing this criminal dangerous

    There is far TOO much wrong with THEM

    What countries / towns have THEY been visiting? Under what shady umbrella(s)? Levelling? Socioengineering?

    Why are THEY kept in their many post(s) as well?

  67. Loren Haas: Says you without presenting any evidence.

    An alleged metaphor based on some antique chapels in old Paris can confuse (think Animal Farm).

    One of my colourful portfolio of old cults was run by an ex Lotta Continua man. Their MO was a new initiative every couple of years and he carried it through. Ayn Rand comes to mind. I knew a man who had been in prison in connection with the Bologna bomb: anyone can get sucked in, under some nice sounding guise at first (“missions”).

    Hellfire Club; then what Barthes cites de Sade as mentioning done to Louis XVII; Nancy and Dodger; then when I was 14 teachers said we should consider “having” sex outside marriage (not unauthoritative playground tittle tattle note) (that was Jimmy Savile time, you know Mrs T’s friend).

    Now look at all the girls and boys destroyed by fear or gleeful “expectation”. Girls supported by some boys, complained about r**e culture at Highgate School, the agnostics will save us if we pray for them.

  68. Ava Aaronson: there are studies of those who rise to be authorities in their fields, only to then use that authority to absurdly & fraudulently turn against their peers’ consensus … Another example would be Piper, Wilson, & Rigney in teaching that Empathy is sin.

    Exactly. A real concern with Kershnar is that there are young minds at SUNY and elsewhere who may accept his teaching and act on it. New Calvinism happened only because a young reformed army bought into Piper’s aberrant views of Scripture. Wilson gets even wilder off track with cheap grace and the new reformers love it so. And look at the damage that Driscoll did … he even wrote a porno book on “Real Marriage.” The problem is, all these guys are still working the church! The world does a better job getting rid of its weirdos (at least the weirdest ones) – hopefully, SUNY will to the right thing.

  69. Jack: It takes everyone to make a difference, working together …

    … under the right leadership. There is a leadership crisis in many corners of America (government, academia, church) … the spiritual leadership dearth is reaching alarming proportions.

  70. Ava Aaronson: The studies answer this question.

    Ava Aaronson: Studies mention Wakefield as a type.

    Good Morning, Ava,

    We are in agreement in finding Kershnar’s views repugnant. I don’t want to detract from ,or derail, that. And SK is on video sharing his views and he’s had an environment of being given a powerful platform to spew his views toward young adults. It’s obviously disturbing. No studies needed.

    Honestly and carefully developed consensus is important. And I value honestly developed “studies.” I like to consider the source and funding of studies, especially as I’ve gotten older. I’m not sure which studies you are referring to. Studies where some data has been mysteriously shredded looks suspicious. I am more likely to be less critical of studies where the data and funding sources are clearly shared, so I can follow the data (and consider researcher behaviors in the process).

    I just hope there is room, and support, in society for honest whistleblowers (and I’m not saying I’ve thoroughly investigated Wakefield to know he is, or isn’t, one). I do know a family that had a healthy child that became severely handicapped soon after a particular vaccine, no “proof” of course. I am of the opinion that vaccines are not all alike and peoples’ responses to them are not all alike. I believe vaccines could be safer in development and delivery. I’m glad to know that Silas S Soule didn’t follow the consensus of his time.

    Also, regarding patterns: non-person entities(run by persons) can display observable patterns also, including smear campaigns toward the whistleblower, when these non-person entities (run by persons) are at odds with whistleblower’s messaging. I’m glad we don’t still have the Marlboro Man influencing youth/adults, but we have vaping….. I think businesses ought to always be liable for their products.

    Again, we have agreement regarding Kershnar, whom neither of us, I think, would put in the category of potential whistleblower.

  71. Michael in UK: Burwell Stark: Thailand

    Netherlands, Belgium, UK?

    But (ed.) “Bangkok” is the city with THE rep as Number-One Sex Tourism Destination.

  72. Max: under the right leadership. There is a leadership crisis in many corners of America (government, academia, church) … the spiritual leadership dearth is reaching alarming proportions.

    But it should be the many that agree on the “right” leadership.

    And in any type of democracy, you may not agree with the leader the majority chooses. But you still have the right to criticize and dissent. Any “right” leader still needs to be accountable .

    The problem is many churches fail in the governance/accountability capacity.

    A truly “right” leader should have the humility to accept they are accountable to those they serve.

    Just like the clown above is being held accountable for his statement. And given the history, his employer has no plausible deniability.

  73. Judas Maccabeus:
    dee,

    To boot, he is clearly either ill informed, or using incorrect info to deceive.Only place in Europe I have spent time is Switzerland.Just checked with friend that is a part of the ETG.Age of consent is 16, similar to much of the US.IF he is a professor, he knows this, or should know.12-13=jail.I just wonder what is on his computer, he may think he is smart, but than again, so did a certain full quiver type that was caught out………

    This is the downside of tenure policies, and likely why places like Liberty don’t have them.

    Many thoughts about tenure have been tossed out in this thread, but tenure doesn’t mean guaranteed employment. It only guarantees due process. SUNY Fredonia could easily dismiss him; they just have to follow due process. Most of the time the ‘tenure’ defense simply means an institution has sloppy process and/or documentation.

  74. Max: The world does a better job getting rid of its weirdos (at least the weirdest ones)

    LOL… plainly stated …. “weirdos”.

    IMHO, any institution has trouble dealing with those embedded, be it religious or secular. Familiar spirits.

  75. Ella,

    Good points. Thx.

    IMHO: Purely anecdotal, NOT a study:

    – a whistleblower risks all to expose truth. Low profile & never grandstanding. Treads carefully.

    – a renegade (one who rejects the conventional & lawful) purposefully undermines truth for personal gain or professional notoriety, notoriety for notoriety’s sake. Shock value. Attention.

    Questioning science is always good since science is truth and proves itself.

    (Vaccine use definitely benefits from more science. In Wakefield’s case, his highly publicized research needed a lot more work before promotion. Note: I didn’t mean to drag the current vaccine ordeal into this… the three examples I gave above are about three separate issues but with the thread of initial outliers [renegades? or whistleblowers? sociopaths or empaths?] in their professional fields, which was my original point.)

  76. Catholic Gate-Crasher: This is far from an isolated case, unfortunately. The Radical Left has been trying to normalize pedophilia for a while now, and their campaign is revving up. They keep floating trial balloons to see what they can get away with.

    The problem with things being floated as a ‘Radical Left’ plot is that a) it’s just a few extremist individuals & not an entire movement at all, & b) it takes your eye off the horror happening right in front of you with plenty of paedophilia happening in right wing families & churches & militias, & of course the fundamental Christian bent towards having very young women marry much older men. The lack of a minimum age for marriage with parental consent in some American states still blows my mind.

    Paedophiles do what they do, because they are paedophiles, not because they hold to any particular philosophy, although they will use anything to try to justify their actions.

    I think this guy’s been hiding in plain sight for a long time.

  77. BeakerN: I think this guy’s been hiding in plain sight for a long time.

    Oh yeah. It’s pretty easy to hide in a university philosophy department; they are all debating whether any of them are really there or not.

  78. Max,

    Max, you’re revealing your knowledge of the First Meditation of Rene Descartes. Did you study enough philosophy to confirm that I exist too? 😉

  79. Ella,

    Side note: (however, my original comment referred to “experts” with neither consensus nor common sense in their professional fields.)

    Re: responses to vaccines & uses of vaccines… and controversy therein:

    Thinking about this today:

    Allergic reactions to antibiotics can be fatal, yet thank God for all the good of antibiotics. And, careful, careful, since one person’s solution may be fatal to another. Yes, fatal.

  80. Headless Unicorn Guy: Michael in UK: Burwell Stark: Thailand

    Netherlands, Belgium, UK?

    But (ed.) “Bangkok” is the city with THE rep as Number-One Sex Tourism Destination.

    It is a known destination, to both pedophiles and law-enforcement. The other locations crossed my mind, as did India. Sadly, those who seek to indulge their depravity will be able to do so wherever they live; certain areas only make it easier.

  81. Ava Aaronson: Thinking about this today:

    Yeah, me too. Problems in the health care system are often on my mind. Not a bad thing to be reminded of things to be grateful for.

    Ava Aaronson: Allergic reactions to antibiotics can be fatal, yet thank God for all the good of antibiotics. And, careful, careful, since one person’s solution may be fatal to another. Yes, fatal.

    Yes. I do thank God for various antibiotics, including penicillin, which was discovered and put into good practice a little differently than current products are, from what I hear. I thank God for brave caring doctors and their patients who’ve participated in careful use of “off label” therapeutics, including nutraceuticals that have less severe side effects than those on the protocol pathways. I wonder if the protocol only approach is commercially driven rather than best for patients driven.

    I don’t think it’s a good thing for big Pharna and big “non-profit” money to be so enmeshed with health care systems, gov, research institutions and prestigious medical journals’ editorial boards and media. It’s also never a good thing when data is made up or hidden (whether by a whistleblower or institution, although a whistleblower would never get away with that for long), along with research steps, when they could be appropriately shared in order to earn trust.

    Thanks.

  82. Ella: big Pharna and big “non-profit” money to be so enmeshed with health care systems, gov, research institutions and prestigious medical journals’ editorial boards and media.

    Good point.

    Big can be consensus of coordinated research or a mob of greed with spin doctors, it seems. Moreover, there are Mega churches full of predators (supported by constituents), and there’s academia with tenured pedophiles arguing validity for vice.

  83. Ella: big Pharma … enmeshed with … gov

    It’s amazing how many government regulators end up with nice jobs in Big Pharma when they retire from Federal employment. Big Pharma lobbyists carry a big stick on Capitol Hill.

  84. Did Professor Stephen Kershnar, SUNY Fredonia, Say That Having Sex With a 1-Year-Old Child Is Not Quite Obviously Wrong to Him?

    WASN’T THAT EXACT “SPECIALTY” THE BIGGEST PART OF JOSH DUGGAR’S CP COLLECTION?

  85. Max: Assigning folks to the left or right to me is like saying some Americans are more reprobate than others.Our citizenry is a mess in-church and out-church.Organized religion ain’t scaring the devil much these days … heck, the old snake has set up camp in a lot of religious circles, as TWW bears testimony.It’s no surprise that this academic fool feels free to think and speak any way he wants to … that’s what we’ve become as a people … the moral standard is on a downward spiral and some folks are thrilled that it is.We’ve lost our way.

    Yes, there are pedo enablers on the Left, Right, and in between.

    But the World Economic Forum — Klaus Schwab’s outfit — has just officially come out in favor of lowering the age of consent to 13.

    If anyone can show me an example of a similarly influential global organization *on the Right* doing the same thing, I’d be glad to see it.

    Thanks in advance.