Chapel Hill Bible Church: A Petition Signed by 78 and the Use of NDAs to Keep Things on the Down Low. What’s Going On With the Leaders?

On NDAs: “Such clauses can help a company in manage its image. But they also dampen the early warning signals about a dysfunctional workplace, and can even hide the emergence of toxic behaviors” link


I had to take my mother to see a heart failure specialist and we need to change her treatment plan. This caused me not to be able to do a commentary on the documents presented. It is my plan to discuss the following items:

  • How does one determine when it’s time to leave a church? I have some experience in this matter.:)
  • Why is CHBC, a church that follows the One who is called Truth, demanding NDAs of their employees? Do these allow the truth to be exposed?
  • The use of NDAs by Christian organizations is currently under fire. Think SBC.
  • When 78 people sign a petition regarding problems in a church, that church should stand up and listen (It’s sad I even have to say this.)
  • Why in the world have the elders chosen this time to do a “Pray for our Pastors” event? (Good night! How incredibly tone-deaf.)

Hmmm, the more I look at this list, the more I think it may take a couple of posts. We’ll see. In the meantime, I have an assignment for TWW readers. Here is a real-life petition presented to the church leaders and a real-life NDA which was rejected by a brave former employee. I am grateful that the people involved with this turmoil care enough to call out their church. Good for them. I wish there were more people who cared enough to understand the serious nature of what is going on. There is also the real-life NDA to help you to see why lawyers are very well paid, sometimes they even use your tithe money.

God brought these things to the light for the good of the church.


The Petition

September 20, 2021

To the Elders and Deacons of the Chapel Hill Bible Church and the consultants of

Leighton Ford Ministries (LFM) and GRACE:

We the undersigned have significant questions and concerns about our church, and we do not

think they are being adequately addressed. The investigation into allegations of years of

systemic abuse by our Executive Pastor (which led to his immediate resignation) has provided a

glimpse into this dysfunction. Despite apologies and assurances from the CHBC leadership that

this season is now behind us, it has come to our attention that the abuse of power continues to

occur. We applaud the hiring of LFM and GRACE, but we are concerned that the truth will not

reach their ears and that the findings of their consultations will not be made fully known to the

congregation. In addition, we are concerned that the members of the Elder and Deacon Boards,

who are responsible for the oversight of the church, are not fully aware of this ongoing

dysfunction.

Each firing, ministry cut, separation agreement, new hire, by-law change, budget increase, etc.

has been presented as a separate incident, yet together they reveal troubling ongoing patterns.

We ask that you, as members of the elder and deacon boards, fully engage in addressing and

influencing change regarding these concerning patterns:

Lack of Care and Concern for All Members of Our Church Body: Trust and grace

are being given to people in power, not the people who have been harmed and are

asking for help. Lack of pastoral care has been confirmed by current and former

congregation members (many of whom have left for other local churches).

Lack of Oversight: Significant changes to the leadership structure and bylaws in recent

years have contributed to the ability of leadership to act without supervision.

Lack of Transparency/Improper Communication: In our experience, congregants’

concerns do not seem to be openly addressed across the entire board of elders, leading

to pockets of knowledge across leadership groups at CHBC. Following what are

considered to be the “proper channels” does not result in concerns being addressed. It is

difficult to know who to contact and how to contact them in order to be heard.

This plea comes from our deep desire to help CHBC heal and to restore trust. We desire a

Godly, positive unity at CHBC that comes from truth and transparency – from letting the Light

shine in the Darkness – not from a false unity that comes from obscuring the truth.

The sudden firing of veteran CHBC staff member xxxx xxxxxx is just one of many examples

of an ongoing dysfunctional culture. After her firing, xxxxxxx was asked to sign a strict

non-disclosure/non-solicitation/non-disparagement agreement, or NDA, in exchange for three

months of severance pay. Because xxxxxxx declined to sign this document, she is able to share

its contents, which are linked in this email. You will notice that the nature of this document

restricts xxxxxxx ability to reveal the truth of her experience working at CHBC or even to reveal

that such a contract exists.

Although we are disturbed by the contents of this severance agreement, some may claim that

NDAs (or other limiting contracts) are a common, albeit controversial, characteristic of large

churches. Indeed, we have been told that for at least the past year, limiting contracts have been

a common practice at CHBC. Some of us have reached out to our connections at other

like-minded area churches and have been told unanimously and unequivocally by leaders at

those churches that NDAs have no place in the Church and should be considered a serious red

flag. All eight articles on the first page of a Google search for “Church NDA” yield the same

sentiment: Christianity Today, The Gospel Coalition, The Roys Report, Ministry Watch,

#NDAfree, Church Times, Geoff Robson, and Diane Langberg. (Note that Diane Langberg is a

former board member of GRACE.)

The timing of this severance agreement, presented to a long-time staff member in the midst of

several investigations that are meant to uncover the truth about allegations of systemic abuse,

is very troubling. The fact that these agreements have been a common practice, coupled with

many other actions over the past several years, raises many questions. We would like to

request the following:

● That each person who signed any limiting agreements with CHBC be released from their

contract in writing and be offered the chance to speak fully and freely with LFM, GRACE,

or whomever they wish.

● That the process of oversight for all staff be shared with the congregation.

● That the congregation receive reassurance that the consultant groups will be allowed to

do their full scope of work and broadly investigate both past and the present instances of

dysfunction.

● That the congregation receive reports directly from both LFM and GRACE with their

findings.

● That an emergency meeting be called within two weeks and, if possible, for the

consultant groups to join, so that we can have a controlled, action-oriented discussion

that allows everyone –non-staff elders, deacons, concerned congregants, and

consultants – to hear the same story at the same time. These steps may help begin to

restore trust in CHBC leadership and ensure that consultants have a complete

understanding of our church’s struggles.

To be clear: our frustration is not only about the manner in which xxxxxx  was fired or the

presence of limiting agreements at CHBC, but it is about a continuing lack of transparency that

breeds distrust, systemically hurts members of the church community, and potentially misuses

donations intended for ministry work. We are seeking truth and transparency to help our church

heal, and we hope you’ll join us in making that possible.

Though we represent a variety of experiences and perspectives, our common thread is that

we are concerned about what we are hearing and would like to see greater transparency

and understanding regarding the issues raised here.

“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no

darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and

do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with

one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.”

1 John 1:5-7 NIV

(To be signed only by members of the CHBC community)


A CHBC NDA .

SEVERANCE AND RELEASE AGREEMENT 

This SEVERANCE AND RELEASE AGREEMENT (the Agreement), is entered into by and between CHAPEL HILL BIBLE CHURCH OF CHAPEL HILL, NORTH CAROLINA, INC., on behalf of itself, its officers, directors, shareholders, employees and agents (in their individual and representative capacities), and its affiliate, predecessor, successor, subsidiary and other related entities, and its insurers and each of them, jointly and severally (the Church), and xxxx xxxx on behalf of herself and her heirs, executors, guardians, administrators, successors and assigns, jointly and severally (hereinafter referred to as Employee) (collectively, the Parties)

Whereas, the Church has elected to exercise its right to terminate the atwill employment of Employee and provided Employee with notice of the same. The Parties desire to fully and completely resolve, settle and dispose of any and all disputes or claims of whatever kind or nature that Employee ever had or may now have against the Church, whether known or unknown, with respect to any and all matters between the Parties. Therefore, the Parties acknowledge and voluntarily agree as follows

Separation Dat

Employees employment with the Church is terminated effective August 4, 2021 (the Separation Date). The Church will provide the Employee with all final wages earned as of the Separation Date on the next regularly scheduled payday following the Separation Date. Additionally, if necessary, the Church or its plan administrator will provide Employee with all documentation necessary to elect her right to continued health care coverage, and in relation to any other benefits

Severance Payment 

Provided Employee signs this Agreement and does not revoke it, the Church agrees to pay Employee severance benefits as follows: (i) Payment equivalent to Fifteen (15) weeksregular wages amounting to Eleven Thousand Eight Hundred Eighty and 0/100 Dollars ($11,880.00 USD) less any applicable federal, social security, state and local tax withholdings and other lawful deductions. In addition, the Church agrees to (ii) continue to pay $345.41 per month toward Employees health insurance premium costs up to and including November 17, 2021; and (iii) directly pay a qualified company of Employees choosing up to $1,500.00 for employment outplacement services (Items (i) (iii) herein are collectively referred to as the Severance Payment). Employee acknowledges and agrees that she is not otherwise entitled to this Severance Payment. The wage portion of the Severance Payment will be provided to Employee in monthly installments in accordance with the existing payroll schedule, with the first installment payable no later than September 30, 2021 with such payments beginning after the Effective Date (as hereinafter defined)

Release by Employee 

In consideration of the mutual agreements and covenants set forth in this Agreement, the sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, Employee agrees to completely and irrevocably waive, discharge and release the Church (along with any related parties, whether directly or indirectly, including, but not limited to, elders, officers, deacons, staff, employees, pastors, advisors, representatives, any related committees and members thereof, etc.) (the Related Parties) from any and all claims, charges, demands, suits, complaints, grievances, causes of action and/or liability whatsoever (the Claims), involving any matter arising out of or in any way related, directly or indirectly, to her employment with the Church, her compensation and/or her separation from employment, or with respect to any other transaction, event or occurrence predating the Effective Date (as hereinafter defined) of this Agreement, whether now known or unknown, including, but not limited to, any claim of breach of contract, wrongful discharge, intentional infliction of emotional distress, retaliation and/or employment harassment or discrimination, whether in tort or in contract, any employment intentional tort or violations of specific safety requirements, any statutory or 

common law claim for attorneysfees, any claim for interest on the amounts paid under this Agreement, or any other claim under present or future federal, state or local statute or law, including, but not limited to, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Equal Pay Act, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the Occupational Safety and Health Act, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, the Age Discrimination and Employment Act (“ADEA), the North Carolina Retaliatory Employment Discrimination Act, the North Carolina Equal Employment Practices Act, the North Carolina Persons with Disabilities Protection Act, and/or the North Carolina Wage and Hour Act, with the exception of any claim that applicable law precludes her from waiving such as (i) any right to file an administrative charge or complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission or other administrative agency, and/or participate in the investigation of any such claim; however, the Employee waives any right to monetary relief related to such a charge or administrative complaint; or (ii) claims for unemployment benefits; and (iii) claims for workerscompensation

ADEA Notification of Rights 

Employee is hereby notified and acknowledges as follows: (a) Employee has had the opportunity to review and consider the terms of this Agreement for a period of 21 days, although she may accept the terms of this Agreement at any time prior to the expiration of the 21day period; (b) Employee understands that she has the right to obtain legal counsel regarding Employees rights, obligations and liabilities under this Agreement before she signs the Agreement; (c) Employee agrees that any modifications, material or otherwise, made to this Agreement, do not restart or affect in any manner the original up to 21 day consideration period; (d) Employee is not waiving any rights she has against the Church that may arise from events occurring after Employee signs this Agreement; (e) this Agreement is entered into knowingly and voluntarily and the Severance Payment is made without any pre existing obligation by the Church; (f) Employee has the option to revoke her release within a seven (7)day period after Employee signs the Agreement; and (g) the terms of this Agreement will become legally binding, effective and irrevocable seven (7) days after the date this Agreement is signed by Employee, unless within the seven (7)day period, Employee provides the Church with written notice of her revocation as explained below

The effective date of this Agreement shall be the eighth (8th) day following the date that Employee signs this Agreement and does not revoke her release of claims (the Effective Date)

Notice of Acceptance. The employee may accept this Agreement by returning a signed original, either in person, or by email to the undersigned Church representative at the contact information below. This Agreement may be withdrawn if not accepted in the above manner on or before 21 days following Employees receipt of this Agreement. The employee received this Agreement on August 4, 2021

Notice of Revocation. Following Employees acceptance of this Agreement, Employee may revoke her waiver by providing written notice in person, by email, or facsimile to Greg Omland at the contact information below on or before seven (7) days following the date this Agreement is signed by Employee

Additional Employee 

Term

Employee agrees (i) to return all other Church property by August 6, 2021; (ii) that she will not disparage or defame the Church, or any of the Related Parties; and (iii) that she will not disclose any confidential information of any of the Related Parties to any third party; and (iv) that she shall not reveal the existence of this Agreement, nor any of its terms to any person, entity or organization except her tax advisor, attorney, immediate family members

accountant or the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and similar state or local tax authorities or pursuant to a valid order or subpoena issued by a governmental authority or a court of law

Covenant Not To Sue 

Employee represents that she will not commence, maintain or file any Claim against the Church or any of the Related Parties, including, but not limited to, a lawsuit in any federal, state or local court, with respect to any matter arising out of or in any way related directly or indirectly to her employment with the Church, her compensation and/or her separation from employment, or with respect to any other transaction, event or occurrence predating the Effective Date of this Agreement, whether now known or unknown to Employee, with the exception of any Claim that applicable law precludes her from waiving. If Employee has filed any Claim against the Church or any Related Party prior to the Effective Date of this Agreement, Employee agrees to immediately withdraw (with prejudice) any such Claim and provide the Church with documentation from the relevant court or administrative body of the withdrawal. Employee understands and agrees that the Severance Payment will not be provided to Employee until the Church receives documentation of Employees withdrawal of any such Claim. Employee agrees that if she does file a Claim in any court or administrative body, she will not oppose any motion to dismiss or similar motion filed by the Church (or any Related Party) based upon this Agreement. Employee is not waiving her right to file a charge or any claim that the Church has breached its commitments under this Agreement, to file a claim for unemployment benefits under North Carolina law, or to file a claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), the Department of Labor/NC Department of Labor (collectively, the DOL); however, Employee understands that she is waiving her right to receive a monetary recovery under any Claim filed with the EEOC or the DOL. Employee further agrees to waive the right to receive any monetary recovery under any Claim filed by another person or entity on her behalf or on behalf of a class. In the event that Employee fails to comply with any provision in this Section, she shall waive her right to the Severance Payment, and if such payment, or portion thereof, has already been provided by the Church at the time of Employees breach, Employee shall be required to immediately return the Severance Payment to the Church

Employee NonSolicitation 

In order to continue to protect the interests of the Church, including the confidential information and trade secrets that are known by Employee, Employee agrees that, for the period of one (1) year following the Separation Date, Employee will not directly or indirectly

(1) solicit, hire, recruit, attempt to hire or recruit, or induce any Church employee to end his or her employment with the Church; or 

(2) solicit or attempt to solicit, contact (including but not limited to communications using email, regular mail, express mail, telephone, fax, instant message, social media, text or any other oral, written, or electronic transmission), or attempt to contact, the Churchs current, former or prospective members or attendees with whom Employee interacted, about which Employee acquired any confidential or proprietary information, or otherwise had any ministerial, business, or other Churchrelated contact with within the twelve (12) months prior to last day of Employees employment, for purposes of offering services similar to or competitive with those offered by the Church

This nonsolicitation provision explicitly covers all forms of oral, written, or electronic communication, including, but not limited to, communications by email, regular mail, express mail, telephone, fax, instant message, and social media, including, but not limited to, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and any other social media platform, whether 

or not in existence at the time of entering into this Agreement. However, it will not be deemed a violation of this Agreement if the Employee merely updates the Employees LinkedIn profile or connects with a Covered Employee on Facebook, LinkedIn, or other social media platform without engaging in any other substantive communication, by social media or otherwise, that is prohibited by this section. This Section does not restrict or impede, in any way, and shall not be interpreted or understood as restricting or impeding, the Employee from exercising Employees rights under Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA)

Tax Liability 

All payments made pursuant to this Agreement will be reported to the IRS. The Church expresses no opinion concerning the allocation or taxability of these payments. Employee acknowledges that, to the extent that she may incur any additional tax liability as a result of the payments made to her under this Agreement, such liability is her sole responsibility. The employee is hereby advised to seek professional tax advice. This Agreement is intended to comply with Section 409A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended (Section 409A) or an exemption thereunder and shall be construed and administered in accordance with Section 409A. Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, payments provided under this Agreement may only be made upon an event and in a manner that complies with Section 409A or an applicable exemption. Any payments under this Agreement that may be excluded from Section 409A either as separation pay due to an involuntary separation from service or as a shortterm deferral shall be excluded from Section 409A to the maximum extent possible. For purposes of Section 409A, each installment payment provided under this Agreement, if applicable, shall be treated as a separate payment. Any payments to be made under this Agreement upon a termination of employment shall only be made upon a separation from serviceunder Section 409A. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Church makes no representations that the payments and benefits provided under this Agreement comply with Section 409A and in no event shall the Church be liable for all or any portion of any taxes, penalties, interest or other expenses that may be incurred by Employee on account of noncompliance with Section 409A

Othe

This Agreement contains the entire agreement and understanding between the Parties and supersedes all other verbal or written agreements, offers, acceptances or negotiations. This Agreement may be amended only by mutual written consent signed by both parties. In the event that either Party breaches any promise made under this Agreement, the breaching Party shall be liable for all damages, attorneysfees, costs and expenses incurred by the non breaching Party in its defending or pursuing the same. By entering into this Agreement, the Church does not admit to the breach of any contractual or other promises to Employee, and does not admit to the violation of any federal, state, local or other statute or law. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with North Carolina law. Should any dispute arise, such matters shall be litigated in the state or federal court located in Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina, provided, however, that the parties shall negotiate in good faith for at least 120 days (based on Biblical principles) before filing any lawsuit. The Parties hereby are consenting to personal jurisdiction in North Carolina, and this provision shall be construed as a mandatory venue selection clause

SIGNATURES APPEAR ON FOLLOWING PAGE

Employee and the Church acknowledge they have read and understood the Agreement and, voluntarily, have executed the Agreement on the dates provided below

(ED. The signature page has been removed )


Tough reading ahead.

Comments

Chapel Hill Bible Church: A Petition Signed by 78 and the Use of NDAs to Keep Things on the Down Low. What’s Going On With the Leaders? — 75 Comments

  1. I am SO sick of these NDA’s and the apparent “cover-ups”…. and think, these “leaders” think they are “leading us”??

  2. It’s extremely enraging to me that the powers that be in the church will use the congregation’s sacrificial tithes and offerings to cover up their sins through the use of NDAs. When I think of all the times our family gave up vacations, being a two-car family, going out to eat, fun lessons for the kids to give to “the Lord’s work” it makes me sick. My old church paid off quite a number of employees when the pastor’s sin was discovered. The pastor himself was probably given a year’s severance in the settlement. All made possible because we and many others went without even the simplest of pleasures at times. Never again. We now give only to those individuals the Lord brings our way. For example, a local horse barn in my area provides therapy for children and adults with disabilities, not for profit. They had a devastating fire recently with the barn burning down, and one of the therapy horses died. Insurance can’t even begin to cover all the needs. Since we aren’t giving to the latest fog machines and lighting system, NDAs and fancy staff “retreats” and “conferences” as well as the staff eating out, we can give to this deserving owner. So much richer and more satisfying. And, I do believe, what Jesus would do.

  3. Leah Jacobs,

    Excellent post. What you say is so common sense, and what Jesus would do, but we’ve all been brainwashed to support “the church”.

  4. And they call themselves a church while asking for signed NDAs because they fire folks who know too much of the truth.

    It’s stomach turning.

  5. Nobody signs an NDA *voluntarily*. And I can guarantee they’re not paying nowhere near enough for the kind of silence they’re trying to extract.

  6. “Should any dispute arise, such matters shall be litigated in the state or federal court located in Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina, provided, however, that the parties shall negotiate in good faith for at least 120 days (based on Biblical principles) before filing any lawsuit.“

    So, ‘good faith’ and ‘Biblical principles’ (as defined by whom, one might wonder) right before ‘federal (?!?) court’?

  7. So much for “speaking the truth in love”. This NDA is an attempt to prevent what the Bible commands. It was obviously crafted by a lawyer, and seems to reflect an extreme desire to control and lord it over someone (the very thing Jesus told his disciples they were not supposed to do).

  8. JDV: the parties shall negotiate in good faith for at least 120 days (based on Biblical principles)

    By this point, you would have to wonder if they’re deliberately pulling your leg.

  9. Leah Jacobs,

    I agree..
    If the lawsuit by donors to RZIM continues to go forward, ALLOT more disgusting “stuff” is going to come out…. Given the past budget of RZIM, and current leadership’s public statements, it sounds like allot to “uncover”..

  10. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Nobody signs an NDA *voluntarily*. And I can guarantee they’re not paying nowhere near enough for the kind of silence they’re trying to extract.

    Great point! NDA’s have no place in the Body of Christ, where members are free in Christ and participation in the organized church is voluntary.

  11. The current “in authority” officers of the church surely have authority to waive the NDAs. Reluctance to do that does not admit of sympathetic interpretations.

    One wonders what GRACE thinks of involvement in a situation in which their access to information about “what actually happened” is so restricted.

  12. Leah Jacobs: We now give only to those individuals the Lord brings our way … Since we aren’t giving to the latest fog machines and lighting system, NDAs and fancy staff “retreats” and “conferences” as well as the staff eating out …

    Wisdom.

    “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it for Me.’” (Matthew 25:31-40)

    Yep, it doesn’t say “When did we see you in need of big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans …”

  13. Leah Jacobs: We now give only to those individuals the Lord brings our way.

    You can ‘be’ the church and not necessarily ‘go’ to church. Don’t get me wrong, there are LOTS of good ministers and ministries out there … there still is the genuine among the counterfeit in the American church. But, after spending 70+ years in the institutional church in America which resembled very little the one described in the New Testament, I am in the “Done” ranks at this point in my Christian journey … done with ‘church’ but not done with Jesus. Realizing you are the Church is liberating!

  14. Perhaps we need more DAs issued in the American church … where staff and members agree to execute “Disclosure Agreements” among themselves … committing to be real and transparent to each other … to hold up the Name of Jesus above their names … to feel free to “disclose” what they see and hear is contrary to the plan of God for His Church … to humble themselves, pray, repent and seek God as necessary. Yep, DAs would be a better plan than NDAs.

  15. Use of NDAs to Keep Things on the Down Low. What’s Going On With the Leaders?

    “TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”, what else?

  16. Max,

    Max, something that came to me in the shower this morning that adds a different angle to “Not Everyone Who Saith LORD! LORD!”

    I vaguely remember that “BA’AL” means “Lord”. (Though my sources are mostly memories of preachers, so that may be unreliable.) If so, this means “Those Who Saith ‘LORD! LORD!'” (and especially those who pronounce it “LOOOOOOOOOORD!!!” all caps and multiple “O”s) are actually saying “BA’AL! BA’AL!”

    I wonder if that was a pun that the listeners (mostly Jews and in Aramaic, another Semitic language) would have gotten.

  17. Jeffrey J Chalmers:
    I am SO sick of these NDA’s and the apparent “cover-ups”….and think, these “leaders” think they are “leading us”??

    By Divine Right.
    All kneel to kiss their rings.

  18. Decades ago I worked as a business researcher and writer. I signed multiple NDAs in order to protect confidential information on various projects. Made perfect sense since I was researching potential patents. As a therapist, I had to sign one regarding client confidentiality–and when I could disclose. In both cases they were simple, straightforward documents, nothing like what I saw described above. Signing one as a requirement for church membership or employment? mmm, don’t think so.

  19. Jeffrey J Chalmers: I am SO sick of these NDA’s and the apparent “cover-ups”

    It’s increasingly clear that many New Calvinist “pastors” control the churches they lead by manipulation, intimidation and domination … none of which are fruit of the Holy Spirit. NDAs and membership contracts have become tools through which they can achieve the power and control they desire. This has nothing to do with doing church in a way that is pleasing to God … it has everything to do with doing church in a way that is pleasing to “Pastor.”

  20. Old Timer: I signed multiple NDAs in order to protect confidential information on various projects.

    Signing an NDA in corporate America to protect trade secrets is one thing … but what should be secret in the Body of Christ?!

  21. “In order to continue to protect the interests of the Church, including the confidential information and trade secrets that are known by Employee…”

    In the true church established by Jesus Christ, there is no “confidential information”, or “trade secrets” that I can possibly think of that need to be “protected” by buying someone’s silence through a signed NDA. This is purely a man-made construct to hold on to power, control, money and authority in a godless business.

    NDAs have absolutely no place in Christ’s true church.

  22. dee: You’re making me laugh.

    “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine”

    Probably not too many merry hearts at Chapel Hill these days.

  23. Gary Boswell: This is purely a man-made construct to hold on to power, control, money and authority in a godless business.

    You nailed it!

    The Scripture reads “Godliness with contentment is great gain”, not “Godless with great gain is contentment”!

  24. “…our Executive Pastor (which led to his immediate resignation)”
    ++++++++++

    i’m still sort of stuck on the name “McKiddie”.

    i mean, at this rate there’s bound to be a “Mr. McSchnookums” out there, too, somewhere.

  25. Old Timer: I was researching potential patents.

    Hmm, later on I might look up patents pending for “silent mechanism for sheep rustling.”

  26. readingalong: Another pastor caught molesting, and this one got the beginnings of earthly justice…

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/oklahoma-minister-tackled-by-man-who-allegedly-caught-him-fondling-boy-arrested-on-complaint-of-lewd-indecent-act-to-child/ar-AAOVvZo?ocid=entnewsntp

    “The elders met tonight and determined it was in the best interest of all parties for Mike to be relieved from all duties. He will no longer be on staff at Lakehoma”

    uhhhh … yeah, that would have been the right thing to do!

  27. readingalong: Another pastor caught molesting, and this one got the beginnings of earthly justice…

    From the look at “pastor’s” mugshot, the boy’s father obviously didn’t pay any attention to the Scripture “touch not mine anointed.” (of course, anointing was obviously not on the table)

  28. Max: From the look at “pastor’s” mugshot, the boy’s father obviously didn’t pay any attention to the Scripture “touch not mine anointed.”

    Broken eye socket and fractured skull!

  29. Max: Yep, it doesn’t say “When did we see you in need of big screens, fog machines, and skinny jeans …”

    Mr Honey and I are looking for a new church. Visited one this weekend that had all three. (Though, to be fair, the pastor was only in tapered, not skinny, jeans, so maybe there’s hope. The worship team was all in skinny.) My first thought, on realizing this, was “What would Max think?”

  30. christiane,

    Amen.

    1 John… Walk in the Light, as He is in the Light, and have fellowship with one another.

    Christian fellowship is founded on light… duh …
    not NDAs.

    Confession of sin is disclosure of sin, for forgiveness of sin and reparation. Zacchaeus. Matthew 3.8, Acts 3.8.

    Churches with NDAs … run. Vote with feet, pocketbook in hand.

  31. Gary Boswell: “In order to continue to protect the interests of the Church, including the confidential information and trade secrets that are known by Employee…”

    “Trade secrets” … secret sins? Seems to be part of the preacher trade nowadays.

    Back in the day when predatory monsters were in a protected class (men, $$$ donors, power) , protected by preachers… who would have guessed that the preachers themselves would become predators. Protect them, then become one, seems to be the trend.

    Predatory preachers are in the news daily.

    Note Rob Downen at the Houston Chronicle’s database where hundreds of names with mugs came to light in one day. Public records. Predatory preachers are a thing.

  32. Jeffrey J Chalmers: …. and think, these “leaders” think they are “leading us”??

    A church leader led a girl down a dirt road into a deserted night woods for a blow job. RZ led women into his dens of perversion with NDAs still enforced today by his leadership Board & family.

    Where do church leaders lead people? The question.

    What’s at the end of that dirt road? What is hidden behind their closed doors? NDAs and blow jobs? Sounds crass. Leaders with NDA behavior to hide are crass.

    There’s no NDA, there are no blow jobs, no peeping toms with hidden cameras, no DV, and no senior pastor bullying, in Go into all the world and share the Good News, making disciples in every nation. Then fellowship in the Light as Jesus is Light.

    A man can’t serve God and his ego (nor his dick or vices) at the same time.

    Why does a man become a church leader? The question. Motivation. The core of why he puts himself in that leadership position will direct his path.

    An NDA indicates a hidden agenda with enforced coverup. The mob enforces silence about their behavior with arms. The church uses NDAs.

    Behavior, not trade secrets, must not be exposed. There’s no secret formula in the Good News.

  33. Max: You can ‘be’ the church and not necessarily ‘go’ to church.

    Where 2-3 are gathered in Jesus’ name can be enough, Jesus said.

    No stage, pulpit, fog machines, fancy light & sound, AV production, coffee bar, kids’ climbing wall, celebrities, valet parking, 30-hr-prepped sermon, skinny ripped jeans, hitech shoes, country club socialites.

  34. Ava Aaronson: Where 2-3 are gathered in Jesus’ name can be enough, Jesus said.

    The persecuted church in many parts of the world know this. As I think about it, the true Church in some places in America is being persecuted with aberrant faith and practice, mega-maniacs, ungodly patriarchy, theological tyrants, unBiblical subordination of female believers, etc. While we are not tortured, imprisoned, and/or executed because we are Christians, the spiritual oppression for true believers is very real. So, the Dones leave the counterfeit church and find 2 or 3 of like-minded to gather in Jesus’ name. Praise God for individual ministers and ministries which have not fallen victim to the above … they truly are the remnant. If you find such place, protect it, pray for it, support it, hold it dear.

  35. Wild Honey: “What would Max think?”

    Well, here’s what Max thinks. I know this will surprise some Wartburgers, but I really don’t have a problem with form as long as there is some substance to it. My concern is not with contemporary worship style … after all, Jesus is the eternal contemporary! My concern is that big screens, fog machines, skinny jeans, etc. too often promote personality and form over the precious Name and presence of Jesus. What are we worshiping really?

  36. Ava Aaronson: What’s at the end of that dirt road? What is hidden behind their closed doors? NDAs and blow jobs?

    And a dragon hoard of MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.
    Must keep up with Ken Copeland and the Furticks, you know.

    “The reason most cults get started is so the Cult Leader can (1) get rich, (2) get laid, or (3) both.”

  37. Wild Honey: My first thought, on realizing this, was “What would Max think?”

    “WWMT?”
    (You know, that sounds like a pro wrestling promotion…)

  38. Cynthia W.: That is correct, and it’s a good insight in this context.

    Problem is, puns and “everybody knows that” don’t translate from the original language and culture.
    (And when I say “original language”, I’m not talking Kynge Jaymes Englyshe.)

  39. Here is the substance of an article about abusive pastors by a group I’d never heard of before – Crosswalk.com They posted on my FB page

    “Abusive pastors often attempt to explain their comments or behavior under the rhetoric of discipline. The appeal to discipline becomes an argument for carte-blanche behavior; the leader can do, or say, whatever they want because they are simply acting as the duly appointed leader. Discipline, as the pastor defines it, justifies verbal attacks and insults, sometimes from the pulpit, often in private.

    Any verbal beating by a leader in the church is not discipline, it is abuse. The discipline spoken of in Scripture pertains to allowing the consequences of behavior to be realized in a person’s life. For example, say a church has a rule that a worship leader is not to be intoxicated. Any leader who violates this rule will receive the consequences of the behavior. He or she may even be removed from ministry. This is discipline. Holding people accountable for their actions is the healthy way to live in community. Every community or organization has avenues of discipline to deal with activity or behavior that harms the community or its members. This is good leadership practice…

    …When a leader continually mocks a member of the staff or publicly humiliates a member of the church, they are emotionally and verbally abusing the individual. When a leader strikes another person or acts in a physically aggressive way, they are not engaging in discipline; they are being a bully. This is unacceptable.

    Abusive pastors love to refer to godly discipline, or the need to “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:5). Yet being a pastor does not give leaders the right to verbally abuse their congregation. Dietrich Bonhoeffer once wrote, “Congregations have not been entrusted to [Pastors] in order that they should become accusers of their congregations before God and their fellow human beings.” No one should ever feel threatened by the church leadership. No one should ever fear “stepping out of line” lest they land on the receiving end of ranting emails, angry phone calls, or the proverbial “tongue-lashing” from the leader…” ~ Rev. Kyle Norman
    >>> https://www.crosswalk.com/church/pastors-or-leadership/lies-that-abusive-pastors-tell.html?utm_medium=fbpage&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=cwupdate

  40. Headless Unicorn Guy: “WWMT?”
    (You know, that sounds like a pro wrestling promotion…)

    Or for when Dee starts selling merchandise. “WWMT” coming to t-shirts, baseball caps, and bumper stickers near you!

  41. Max: I really don’t have a problem with form as long as there is some substance to it.

    Well… the sermon was lightweight and could have been said in 10 minutes instead of 30. But neither was there anything in it that I found problematic, which was refreshing.

    The worst so far has been a service at a local RCA church, coincidentally commissioning a new elder. Among other things, he promised to “discipline” the congregation. And they promised right back to “submit.” Then the senior pastor followed with a sermon on tithing that was pretty heavy in the spiritual guilt-tripping. It was one of those things where you’re looking around to see if there are hidden cameras, because it’s too unreal.

  42. Wild Honey: the sermon was lightweight and could have been said in 10 minutes instead of 30

    “Paul, ready to leave the next day, preached to them, and continued preaching until midnight.” (Acts 20:7)

    And we feel like we need to be out of church by Noon!

  43. Wild Honey: … he promised to “discipline” the congregation. And they promised right back to “submit.” Then the senior pastor followed with a sermon on tithing that was pretty heavy in the spiritual guilt-tripping

    Spiritual bondage at its worst. I would have headed for the door. Puppeteers need puppets to perform. I’m not a puppet.

  44. Wild Honey: he promised to “discipline” the congregation. And they promised right back to “submit.”

    Granted that I’ve spent most of my life in the mainline, but this is NOT universal in churches.

    A couple of years ago I asked our pastor, “What would I have to do to get disciplined in the church?” He’s a pretty unflappable guy, but this question stumped him, and I think he wondered briefly if my life was going off the rails. His answer was something like, “I can’t imagine you doing anything that would cause that.” His further answer was that our denomination disciplines pastors, but not members.

    This is just a real-life example of Another Way Of Doing Things. I don’t name our church or denomination, because no place is guaranteed to be permanently safe. I have belonged to a half-dozen churches in three mainline denominations, in addition to spending ten years in a peace church.

  45. Headless Unicorn Guy: “The reason most cults get started is so the Cult Leader can (1) get rich, (2) get laid, or (3) both.”

    Good quote, with evidence & documentation. History informs. (Citation?)

    Ruth Ben-Ghiat studied authoritarian leaders and proved their path, how they got there.

    Research could do the same with off-the-rails church leaders (IMHO). (Calvinistas anyone?)

    The research about cults is done and published.

    Watched a doc about women in the Hollywood industry. They figured out the casting couch should be dumpstered.

  46. Ava Aaronson: They figured out the casting couch should be dumpstered.

    Hopefully churchers will get ahead of church scams and shady leaders.

    Be nice if legit pastors would join in exposing shysters. Sermon anyone? Wouldn’t take 30 hrs prep … Rob Downen has done the research.

  47. Max,

    ““Paul, ready to leave the next day, preached to them, and continued preaching until midnight.” (Acts 20:7)

    And we feel like we need to be out of church by Noon!”
    +++++++++++++++

    well, Paul had quite the advantage being so close to the Acts chapter 2 (in time and experience) when the day of Pentecost had fully come, sound of mighty rushing wind, tongues of fire, etc.

    holy spirituality was raw. planet earth had never been hit with such a thing.

    today’s status quo couldn’t be further. (as i see it, and have experienced).

    as if either studying for 30 hours or purchasing someone else’s sermon could yield anything similar.

    (but i’m not interested in sermons or preaching. an intelligent topical conversation or inspired prayers with a time limit with family and friends and i’m good)

  48. elastigirl: Paul had quite the advantage being so close to the Acts chapter 2 (in time and experience)

    Yes. Unfortunately, the organized church has used their time and experience for the last 2,000 years to substitute piety for power and pulpit personality for the presence of God.

  49. This NDA reveals so much about the church’s leadership. The document talks about “breech of contract” committed by either side, but the church’s only responsibility is to hand over money and keep her insurance going for a couple of months. That requires only a few minutes by Accounting to adjust termination dates of pay and insurance. Not much to breech there. Not much responsibility for the supposed leaders.

    On the other hand, the employee has a mountain of responsibilities, many of which are in place for the length of her life (and possibly binding her heirs into perpetuity, depending how you interpret paragraph 2).

    Someday, she will die and go into our Lord’s presence. Should she dare to share with Jesus any of the secrets covered by this NDA, I’m sure the church officials will suddenly show up, tap her on the shoulder, wave their stupid contract, and demand the return of their money. Sigh…

  50. Friend: Granted that I’ve spent most of my life in the mainline, but this is NOT universal in churches.

    Thank you, I appreciate this.

  51. Ava Aaronson: Headless Unicorn Guy: “The reason most cults get started is so the Cult Leader can (1) get rich, (2) get laid, or (3) both.”

    Good quote, with evidence & documentation. History informs. (Citation?)

    Actually it was my old Dungeonmaster, in the parking lot of his student housing complex some time around 1977-1980, after one of his Saturday Night D&D all-nighters. Often after the game ended we’d have a general “recreational thinking” bull session.

    I think the subject drifted into cults, especially the Moonies (who were big at the time). I’d had another Pin-the-Tail-on-The-Antichrist inflicted on me, and my DM said that Moon was actually a better fit than the other current candidates because “Most cults are started so…. But the Moonies have been after political power from the start.”

  52. Headless Unicorn Guy: Moonies

    Where @cultexpert Steve Hassan got his start. He says he was from a nice Jewish family and comfortably attending college. His girlfriend dumped him, he was sitting stewing in the Student Union when three attractive Moonie chix approached with their shpeel. He dropped everything and followed. Years later, lost years later, he deconstructed.

  53. Ava Aaronson: His girlfriend dumped him, he was sitting stewing in the Student Union when three attractive Moonie chix approached with their shpeel.

    So it’s not just Mo David’s COGs who go Flirty Fishing.

  54. David:
    Who was the executive pastor that resigned?

    Eric McKiddie. If you go back a couple articles on TWW, there is more on him there.

  55. Old Timer:
    Decades ago I worked as a business researcher and writer. I signed multiple NDAs in order to protect confidential information on various projects. Made perfect sense since I was researching potential patents. As a therapist, I had to sign one regarding client confidentiality–and when I could disclose. In both cases they were simple, straightforward documents, nothing like what I saw described above. Signing one as a requirement for church membership or employment? mmm, don’t think so.

    Yes in some circumstances in the business world, NDAs can make sense.

    When people read the non-compete part of this NDA, however, keep in mind this was for an *administrative assistant* who had worked there for 16 years and is a single mother of 5 and grandmother of one.

  56. Max: Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Nobody signs an NDA *voluntarily*. And I can guarantee they’re not paying nowhere near enough for the kind of silence they’re trying to extract.

    Great point! NDA’s have no place in the Body of Christ, where members are free in Christ and participation in the organized church is voluntary.

    I was absolutely appalled when I read the NDA….yet (and I know I’m not saying anything new) I can understand how the person (employee, or whoever) can be in desperate financial circumstances and sign one.

  57. Sandy Williams: This NDA is an attempt to prevent what the Bible commands. It was obviously crafted by a [ CROOKED ] lawyer, and seems to reflect an extreme desire to control and lord it over someone

    I’ve tried to fix this well said comment up just a little bit. Having read a lot of legalese over my career, I can tell well-meant lawyer work from cover-up lawyer work. This is cover-up legalese at its most despicable.

    Any church that pushes this verbiage on any member or employee is dancing on the high-wire trying hard to avoid the fall.

  58. J R in WV: Any church that pushes this verbiage on any member or employee is dancing on the high-wire trying hard to avoid the fall.

    Avoiding the fall by pushing everyone else off.