Prayer from Augustine, 354-430 link
Look upon us, O Lord,
and let all the darkness of our souls
vanish before the beams of thy brightness.
Fill us with holy love,
and open to us the treasures of thy wisdom.
All our desire is known unto thee,
therefore perfect what thou hast begun,
and what thy Spirit has awakened us to ask in prayer.
We seek thy face,
turn thy face unto us and show us thy glory.
Then shall our longing be satisfied,
and our peace shall be perfect.
Amen
Mozarbic Passion Prayer link
(The Mozarabs were Christians who lived in Spain under Islamic rule.
The prayers in the Mozarabic Rite are free in style and substantial in meaning.
Most of the prayers also seem to be very direct in presenting gospel content.
They are also very consciously biblical. link)
Jesus, our Lord and our God,
you gave your cheek to those who struck you
and for our sake you endured much mockery.
Grant that following the example of your sufferings,
we may be courageous in bearing our own,
and learn from you,
for you are meek and lowly in heart;
you now reign with the Father and the Holy Spirit,
God for ever and ever.
Amen
THE APOSTLES CREED link
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit;
Born of the Virgin Mary; Suffered under Pontius Pilate; Was crucified, dead and buried; He descended into Hell;
The third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven; And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit; The Holy Christian Church, the Communion of Saints;
The Forgiveness of sins; The Resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting.
Amen.
(Please scroll to the 18-minute mark to begin the sermon)
A Celtic Blessing link
Deep peace of the Running Wave to you.
Deep peace of the Flowing Air to you.
Deep peace of the Quiet Earth to you.
Deep peace of the Shining Stars to you.
Deep peace of the Son of Peace to you.
Amen
1
Can’t support Charlie Kirk or his organization.
Bailing out of TWW.
Peace out all.
This a swing and a miss. Charlie Kirk is half of the Falkirk Center at Liberty U. He also called Simone Byles a psychopath when she withdrew from Olympic competition.
Deeply disappointed that Charlie Kirk is offered as a resource. He is a culture warrior/provocateur. If the rules for commenting say “no politics,” why post about someone who is all politics, all the time?
Emmaneul Enid has been the source of sermons for EChurch. This has been going on for years.They have provided couseling to those who have needed it. There have been some concerns about a few folks who have been featured there. However, the vast majority of the sermons contributed to our church have been well received.
Perhaps you all could help by finding a church which will give counseling to EChurch folks as well as never, ever having a couple of debatable sermons. It’s not as easy as it looks. Maybe Jack who has dumped TWW’s EChurch would be willing to help in that regard. Sometimes, it is way too easy to “peace out.” I would like to hear from him about the other sermons that he has listened to and whether they have been of value. Or was this a one and done?
In the end, I guess that a few sermons from some folks who are controversial aren’t too bad given the number of years this has been in existence. I am sorry that this one has caused such controversy.
Politics are not allowed to be discussed on the blog. This Echurch is different.. It is a church gathering.. Susan, can you tell me if you have listened to the majority of EChurch sermons? Are you disappointed in all of them or is it just this one?
Wade Burleson is retiring in January. I am currently open for suggestions. Perhaps those who were disappointed in this sermon would be willing to help me find a new stream for EChurch.
While I’m at it, no one said anything about the prayers or the music. Did you like them? Do you have any suggestions?
Fair enough, Emmanuel enid hasn’t really my cup of tea for a while. I’m not a supporter of the pastors stance on some issues that I consider important. So I gave a knee jerk reaction to a person that I really can’t support.
The rest of echurch is fine.
If the majority of feedback is good then strike my comment from the record.
It’s easy to armchair quarterback and I have nothing to add.
Innate incompatibility.
Just consider it a dumb comment.
Jack,
Thank you for responding. I truly appreciate it. Any thoughts about what I should do in January?
Jack,
One of my Lutheran pastors taught me something. He told us that we would sometimes not like his sermon. Other times we might not like the music. But he said the service is fillled with other things that we can like confession, prayers, etc. He said that on the times we don’t like his sermon to concentrate on the other activities. I liked that.
dee,
The prayers and music are always excellent. When the church vid presentation goes off the rails, I do what I also do in a church building, I tune it out.
Having been aware of the subjugation of women and the violation of children by church leaders for a long time (which is what I wrote about in the novel, “Legal Grounds”), there have been many occasions over several decades, to tune out the off-the-rails leaders in the pulpits. Often, they don’t get it.
Kyle J. Howard has a recent thread where he explains that John Piper, of all people, ministered to Kyle and his wife Vy, initially. Then the situation completely turned a corner. It happens. Both. The initial and the corner.
Church can be like a box of chocolates … , as Forrest Gump would say.
God our Creator, Jesus His Son, and the Holy Spirit, OTOH, are golden, always and forever, all the time. Fortunately.
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus [not the cloud of witnesses], on Jesus Who is the author and perfecter of our faith.” Hebrews 12.1-2
Charlie Kirk can checked on Polifact, ProPublica, The Way of Improvement Leads Home, etc. Sorry Dee, I’m with Jack on this one, Kirk isn’t a preacher, he’s a USA right wing controversial activist.
Bluntly put, blessing and cursing can’t come out of the same mouth.
What if you changed the format for EChurch on Wartburg Watch?
What if you kept putting up some favourite music and a devotional from different denominations?
ie:
Irish Jesuits Sacred Space
Lutheran Hour Ministries
United Methodist Church
Southern Baptists
All We Can UK Methodists
Beliefnet, Patheos
Anglican Focus Australia
I’m sure your readers have favourite devotionals they can suggest from all over the world.
BD,
Good ideas.
I come here mainly for the prayers – thoughts, language, and concepts that have stood the test of time, in the case of Augustine over a millennium and a half. Contemporaneity, especially in homiletics, has its risks – sermons and praise music have not stood the test of time and sometimes can fail the moment. Or you might not like the messenger (ask Christ’s disciples – apostles – how that goes). We should all pray the prayer of Augustine, begins “let all the darkness of our souls
vanish before the beams of thy brightness,” and ends “turn thy face unto us and show us thy glory. Then shall our longing be satisfied, and our peace shall be perfect.” Removing the timber from my own eyes so I can see those beams of brightness, to see his face is what I seek.
dee,
I love your choice of prayers and hymns, DEE. Thank you for E-Church.
What denomination is Charlie Kirk? Does anyone know?
The sermon was difficult to understand. Does anyone here have some insight into it that they can share? And thank you.
BD,
Thank you for the suggestion. I’ve been thinking about featuring somee talks by various pastors, church leaders, etc.
d4v1d,
Thank you for your thoughts. I am becoming more like you in seeking out the thoughts of the early church fathers.
Charlie Kirk is the king of politico disinfo and gets so many facts wrong…hugely. And Turning Point USA is really awful. It’s one of ther most divisive orgs I’ve come across (I’m in process of making a blog that’s reconciliatory in purpose so I consider myself well-informed at this point).
I’m not bailing though…I’m way to grateful to TWW for ten years (?) of solid support and goodness. But if we can keep our tempers in check (says the recovering troll), it might lead to some good discussion.
dee,
Dee, I haven’t viewed any of the EChurch services before. I’ve been aware of them, but none have caught my eye (positively or negatively) until this one. Others have accurately commented on Kirk’s “credentials,” so I don’t need to belabor that point.
Much respect, Dee, for continuing with TWW as planned, even with Charlie Kirk. Other than Christianne, I wondered if any other the other commentators actually listened to the message?
Janet,
I am looking for some ideas for the future. Wade’s church has been such a support through the years but he will soon be off to a new venture. Some folks have suggested to have a series of vidoeos from pastors of various denominations. I know a wonderful woman pastor who I bet will let us use her sermons.
However, the sad fact is that Emmaneul Enid has been such a strong support to TWW readers who’ve reached out for help. I am feeling a bit sad as this era comes to an end. But, God will supply. I am taking thoughts and ideas.
William Wade Burleson,
It is a b=habit of mine to listen to the sermon while I set up EChurch. I heard his talk and liked it. I had no idea of the controversy.
I know gender is not a qualification nor does it disqualify. However, I was thinking about how wonderful it would be to include women preachers/pastors/speakers.
I regularly check in here to keep apprised of the going’s on in the American church. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I opened it up and saw Charlie Kirk…he is a wet behind the ears, ultra right wing Trump cheerleader and I am kinda shocked/ puzzled to see him here.
Thanks so much for all you do…grace and peace to you!
I was too Ava.
The Lutherans of the ELCA synod have many good female pastors.
It (ELCA Lutheran) would be a good place to start.
William Wade Burleson,
Whatever the message is, the messenger taints it.
Google “Falkirk Center”. There’s a connection to a person who has had numerous posts devoted to him on this forum.
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
When he begins his speech regarding “our nation”, IMHO, it’s already out of the lane of the Body of Christ, which has nothing to do with nations, and is not nationalistic. Moreover, it’s divisive.
Where in the Bible is the Body of Jesus Christ a nation or nationalistic?
In the US, people on both sides of the aisle have good (and bad) intentions for “our nation”. The Body of Christ transcends that divide, both sides of the aisle, and furthermore, across the globe, with deeper shared values and very different approaches. Guessing this speaker would never agree with these last two statements.
Thank God, TWW does not do either side of the aisle but transcends that divide with deeper and far more important values. Refreshing.
Here’s a pastor who seems to “get it”. He speaks of both conservatives and liberals in his city who love Jesus. And then he tells of of those, by any label, who are all about hate and destruction. Love is neither partisan nor nationalistic; God is love.
https://twitter.com/RevChuckCurrie/status/1429574369680891907?s=20
John 15:13 “Greater love has no one than this, that a person will lay down his life for his friends.”
John 13:35 “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
Well whoever you get to preach, also please seriously consider ditching your own William Wade Burleson who has posted here.
Wade’s blog is full of conspiracy theories, anti-masking and a disdain for science. This indicates a lack of sober mindedness, self control and negates Paul’s qualification for leaders in 1 Timothy 3.
Readers down thread have made some excellent suggestions.
If it’s a possibility, maybe throw a mainline (Lutheran, Anglican etc) sermon into the mix.
If the speaker is from a parachurch organization, might be worthwhile to look them up to see if it aligns with tww’s mission statement. The rest of echurch is fine. It’s an eclectic mix of homilies and prayers.
This is good advice. My original comment was a stinkbomb. I should not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sorry to have framed the way I did.
Even the most gifted preacher can have an off day but when the background of the preacher or speaker involves crime or racism or victimization then that’s problematic even when the message is ‘good’.
When Dinesh d’souza preached, you could make the argument he paid his debt to society for his felony conviction, or that his adultery was between him & his wife but taunting high school shooting victims really couldn’t pass.
Echoing many of the thoughts here, including your own, bringing in some long-established influences would be a good way to build on the foundation laid in the current EChurch model. Here are a couple thoughts:
Prayers: Wade has included prayers from the Christian leaders of antiquity, and I would hope to not only see this continue, but to utilize additional sources. Your own LBW is a trove of resources, as would be the Book of Common Prayer, the Roman Breviary, and similar.
Music: The beauty of a traditional hymn, a form that fits within almost any denominational/nondenominational worship environment, would expand the artistic range, and appeal to many of us (well, me, anyway). Even simple ones, like this recording of a youth choir from the UK – give it a listen. Seriously, would anyone object to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcypzhIIjA). Tom Trenney’s music program from First Plymouth Church in Lincoln NB has an amazing mix of youtubes. There are many great examples of the genre on youtube – the difficult part is picking one.
Church fathers: And mothers! Julian of Norwich, Hildegaard, Teresa of Avila, Margery Kempe; Julian’s “All Shall Be Well” has been set to music and there are almost a bazillion recordings in every genre imaginable. The go-to voices here are Augustine and Ambrose, sometimes Aquinas (let’s add Anselmm to the A-team). Excepts from other mystics both pre- and post-Reformation (Eckhart, TerSteegen, John of the Cross, poets T.S. Eliot and Phillis Wheatley) would be worth consideration.
Fitting it all in would take about… two thousand years, give or take.
Beautiful. 🙂
That. (And yet so easy to lose track of time searching and / or listening….)
Charlie Kirk and his associates are not Christians but rather “christianists”, politically-driven agitators who seek to wrap the surface mantles of Christianity around a core political agenda of conservative nationalism, white supremacy and seizure of political power. They are the American analogies to “islamists” in the Middle East who have done similar things with historic Islam. If an American Taliban arises, one epicenter will be Liberty University and its mullah Kirk, who may be modeling himself after Anwar al-Awlaki. TWW needs to be exceedingly careful about passing along such videos which, even if harmless on the surface, give credence to truly evil, manipulative people.
After listening to Charlie Kirk’s sermon, and finding difficulty in comprehending parts of it, I thought about something I had read that reflects on my ‘confusion’, this:
“”If the religious instinct does not find its satiation in religious activity, it searches for what nourishment it can find elsewhere, in politics and business and education and, for that matter, within the confines of our private lives. Under such circumstances, everything becomes contaminated with unrecognized religious urgings and promptings and produces a zealotry whose intensity and danger is disproportionate to its putative cause. In consequence, it is now incumbent upon us all to engage in a most serious discussion about just what is Caesar’s and just what is God’s, understanding that some must be reserved for the latter, lest what is absolute and divine be attributed to the former.”
(Jordan Peterson)
I am open-minded to think I may mis-understand much. I found the sermon to be confusing indeed. I cannot reconcile some of what is said with ‘faith’ as I define it, no. I’m sure there are other reflections by others here that point to that which I may have missed or misunderstood. I would be grateful for some discussion on the content of that sermon and thank you.
d4v1d,
David, are you familiar with the ‘Catena’ as a source on the Church Fathers?
Sometimes it is referred to as the ‘Catena Aurea’.
I was young and now am old. I learned a long time ago not to toss aside a message God may have for me simply because I didn’t like the messenger. Whether you like Mr. Kirk or not, it’s hard to argue with the truths he shares about the importance of faith in the culture we’ve been dropped into … it’s Biblical!
d4v1d,
Love it. Just a point here. I find the prayers to post. I am glad you like them.
Max,
Thank you. I thought the same.
Jack,
There is one other point. Have they seriously repented. There is some indication that this might be true with D’Souza.
Thank you for your kindness in this discussion..
However, if I find out Mr. Kirk is a New Calvinist, I retract my comment 🙂
Eric Britt,
Thank you for your comment.
Ava Aaronson,
I am longtime friends with an excellent woman preacher.
dee,
Dee, I believe that Wade’s dad is named Paul Burleson.
In my 70+ years as a Christian, I have benefited greatly from women teachers/preachers … including my dear wife! (she knows more Scripture than most pulpiteers I have experienced)
You are correct. I’m going to delete it.
dee,
You are very welcome. In retrospect, I regret my “wet behind the ears cheerleader” comment as it was sadly lacking in grace…please forgive me and keep up the good work.
Grace and peace to you!
dee,
Lovely. Hope to see her here.
Max,
I’m with you on this one Max, Kirk’s politics have little to do with a message on faith. Nadia Bolz Weber has some excellent sermons, but I seriously doubt she’d ever be featured here at TWW.
But then again, if Kirk gets a spot, why not Bolz Weber?
Sorry, Gang. I can’t compute that dichotomy. Kirk has been linked to white supremacy and the leadership of his organization has spoken fondly of a certain mustached German personality from WWII. In fact Kirk claims he was denied a spot at West Point due to a less qualified non-white. He denied this later but there’s an audio clip.
As a person in a mixed marriage with children who are ostensibly not of Kirk’s demographic, he could spout sunshine, rainbows and unicorns – it still wouldn’t make a difference.
Given that churches are prone to a culture of compliance – the potential for a very toxic outcome.
These guys are no dummies – they play to the house.
That’s my take on it. Your mileage may vary.
Thank you for the forum where such a discussion is possible. Whatever the topic, the conversation is always something to think about.
I may have missed something about faith in this sermon, but I thought he focused primarily on satan/the devil/ the great deceiver rather than Jesus and/or faith.
Jack,
I hear where you’re coming from Jack and I appreciate your comment.
But truth is truth whether it comes from someone we can side with on other issues or no.
For example we know that a(b+c)=ab+ac, regardless of who states it.
Is it any less true if stated by a Sith Lord?
I believe his primary point was to stress the importance of faith within the 21st century Christian community in order to recognize the work of the enemy (satan, devil, deceiver) in various arenas of life. He stressed the need for personal Bible study and prayer in order to be properly equipped. I assumed he meant faith in Christ and not religious systems.
I actually listened to the sermon and it was playing exactly to the house. Stroke the church, stroke Oklahoma (“back in America because there were no BLM or LGBTQ flags” though he used a more derogatory term). Even an ad for Charlie’s wife’s Christian apparel company.
It was a sales job. And I’ve heard better.
Sure Sith Lords can tell the truth, if it suits their agenda.
I’m going to stop now as there’s nothing more to add. As I said before, I’m incompatible with this man, Enid church and the message.
Dee, I’m going to assume you weren’t that familiar with Charlie Kirk, and I hope you won’t mind a suggestion that a quick Google search might come in handy now and then.
On a positive note, I love the idea someone had above suggesting an interdenominational approach to eChurch with varied styles. Liturgical, gospel, soul, cowboy church, Mennonite, etc. The diversity of Christian traditions can be really beautiful.
Robin,
Ouch.
“a quick Google search” ??
I view Dee as highly skilled in searching.
Fear mongering is a cult leader skill. Just sayin’.
Because I’m having a hard time listening to any messages, or visiting any gatherings of “church” because of the many years of hurt I’ve experienced, I have not listened to many eChurch recently. And that includes this most recent with Charlie Kirk. I was somewhat surprised to see his name listed for eChurch.
This must be a very different crowd than I’ve seen comments from in the past. I remember being told, “if you don’t like it, then leave”, so it’s a big shock to me that Jack’s “peace out” wasn’t met with a bunch of similar responses.
While Charlie has his way of speaking, and has his political leanings that are seen by many as controversial, it seems that many, maybe including myself, are apt to avoid listening to information based on preconceived notions of the person speaking. How do we break that cycle? Not sure. But that may be a big part of the overall problem in these current troubled times.
As far as other messages to post here for eChurch, I’m not sure on that either. Again, pointing at myself as I write this, some may not be willing to watch/listen to a preacher from a different denomination, or female, or (add your bias here). That may take more time for convincing than a post message stream can handle. For me, written arguments (not disagreements in anger, more like courtroom back and forth) doesn’t do much to convince me to try something else, ie trying a Lutheran church vs a baptist church. If I could have a good one on one verbal conversation, that might be different for me.
While I understand the DESIRE to have “what has been” continue, is it appropriate to ‘force’ a continuation if that’s not what “is meant to be”? Wade’s moving on to other things soon because that’s where he was lead. I don’t remember eChurch other than with Wade at Enid, but might a format change would be a consideration now that he’s not going to be available? Just providing one opinion.
Thanks for your continued hard work in any case.
christiane,
Hi Christiane:
Don’t know. all his bios are just pr. He is from Chicago, says he attended a ‘bible believing’ church and went to a private school started by Wayne Grudem – Christian Heritage Academy. Kirk says he became a Christian in the 5th grade but says his salvation was not complete because ‘he did not believe in Dominion theology.’ (Flux)
He says Rob McCoy helped him see the error of his ways. (Calvary Chapel)
“Eventually, Kirk said, McCoy pushed him to reconsider whether church and state should really be separated.
“He said, ‘Charlie I want to challenge you […] you are a Christian and I want to tell you that not only does the Bible say a lot about civil government, not only does the Bible say a lot about how we should interact with our leaders,” Kirk recounted.”
https://flux.community/matthew-boedy/2021/05/charlie-kirk-christian-nationalism-turning-point-faith
His organizations are headquartered in Phoenix Arizona.
He has a condo in Florida according to ProPublica.
Wade is certainly a believer.
Kirk is hugely popular, knows how to work media.
He segued seamlessly into American politics (libertarianism, maga, nationalism, theocracy, etc.) in his Enid ‘sermon’.
He was all over that map for sure. Amazing he can be so vicious during the week and quote the bible from pulpits on a weekend. He is the evangelical industrial complex definition of success.
Yes.
BD,
Oh my God!
I’ve been checking around and I am deeply concerned by what I am finding also.
Hence, the advice of someone who may know more than me about those who ‘combine’ politics and religion, to the possible detriment of both, this:
” . . . In consequence, it is now incumbent upon us all to engage in a most serious discussion about just what is Caesar’s and just what is God’s, understanding that some must be reserved for the latter, lest what is absolute and divine be attributed to the former.”
(Jordan Peterson)
Dominionism in the worst sense seems to be a big part of what he is presenting on the whole from what I can find. Extremism? I’m afraid it is. No way Dee knew his full background, no.
Thanks, BD for sharing with me.
It looks like Charlie Kirk was the guest “preacher” at Emmanuel Enid a week ago. Emmanuel Enid is Wade Burleson’s church. Emmanuel Enid has supplied sermon content to TWW for a long while.
I understand that Emmanuel Enid has helped TWW folks with counseling. This has great value, and I wish I had a suggestion for replacing that. Is Wade the sole source of counseling there?
Like others, I would also like to see variety in the EChurch content. This would allow people to experience different ways of preaching and thinking about God. What’s going on outside megachurches and outside the SBC? A whole lot.
Oh Lord yes! According to Christianity Today, there are 30,000 Christian denominations and organizations worldwide! There’s surely stuff going on in all of them. On the other hand, I bet there’s a whole lot more going on in mega-mania and SBC that we don’t know about! The Christian blogosphere is livin’ the dream (or nightmare) reporting on all the bad boys out there.
I thought they were lovely dee, thanks for choosing them.
Friend,
Hello Friend,
I greatly value Wade Burleson as a person who has tried to help others even though it costs him. He and his wife, Dr. Rachelle Burleson, have offered counseling to couples in need of it, and Wade has opened and maintained his ‘Refuge’ center as a source of ministry to people on the ‘fringes’ of society who needed a friend.
I do not agree with Wade’s politics on the whole, no;
nor do I see eye to eye with him on theology (I’m Catholic);
but I would never abandon him as a friend who prayed for me in my grief when my husband died and hope to always count on him as a good and decent person.
I can see why Dee trusted Wade, as his character towards caring for people in need who are oppressed has been above reproach. The politics? I am hopeful that the political ‘culture wars’ will soon pass and that the Church will again regain its witnesses intact and free of political influences that are hurting the Church’s witness.
I stand beside Wade as a person who has helped women and innocent people who were being persecuted. He has not changed nor do I think he will abandon those people in spirit. I still believe that of course, the Church has his heart.
People are infinitely more important to us than their politics and/or theological stances. As is said in the Church, ‘in all things, caritas’.
Thank you for such a gracious and eloquent response. Please accept my sympathy on the death of your husband.
I share your hope, but must admit it is fading. Quite a few churches have energized their congregations with anger about real and not-real things. Now some church leaders cannot reel their congregations in. People who used to rant about yoga pants are burning masks in Jesus’ name.
Churches can’t help brushing up against politics, and it is good for people to be politically engaged. In our lifetime, though, many congregations have developed potent political alliances. Amid pandemic isolation and hardship, people have really lost sight of their neighbors’ humanity… and they are not often finding it at church.
I need to add something about persecution. Members of the John Birch Society used to proselytize my family, including me as a young child, cornered and alone. Communism is totally evil, but the Birch Society—which has a foothold at Emmanuel Enid—is not a healthy defender of the persecuted. It’s a pressure group straight out of 1950s McCarthyism. FYI, I spent 15 years studying the Cold War while it was going on, and logged quite a bit of time behind the Iron Curtain. (This is a general comment, since I don’t know which persecuted people you were referring to.)
As always, I appreciate you and everyone here on TWW.
Christiane: except people spouting the politics of Wade Burleson are quite literally killing people.
Friend:
Wade Burleson with the President of The John Birch Society, and the JBS chairman of the board.
https://www.wadeburleson.org/search?q=+lunch+with+John+Birch+members
I know of some of the problems that are possible when ‘theology’ and ‘politics’ merge in ways that Our Lord has indicated as ‘wrong-headed’, and for me, the hope that ‘the culture wars’ soon be over is what enables me to still see beyond the present troubles to the time of some kind of healing.
Yes, I also am worried. Especially about the latest to come out from extremism, this: the concept that ’empathy is sinful’
There are so many ‘new’ developments coming out of the mixture of extreme politics and theology that one wonders to what end this will lead, and at what point ‘the Church’ will stand against the new ‘teachings’ that discourage observing those on the margins who are deeply troubled and acting out as unworthy of the compassion shown by Christ who gazed out on the crowds of weary, troubled people who ‘were lost and without a shepherd’.
Extreme politics and theology seem to be capable of forming the nexus of a new anti-gospel;
and I think The Church will, must, soon address this tragic mistake ‘as Church’. People of good will immediately recognize the potential for evil to come in the teaching that ‘it is sinful to have empathy’.
BD,
Thank you. This is not a Christian group. Neither is the group Charlie Kirk runs.
I wonder why the members of Emmanual Enid don’t seem to be complaining about bringing politics into the church. If they did complain, how would they be treated by their fellow members?
Christiane:
I trust Jesus Christ, and I believe He sifts and I believe He protects his Bride. I trust the Holy Spirit. I trust my Father’s love. The ‘church’ has been sifted through out the centuries and there is always a remnant.
It is hard; culture wars, politics, molding God into our image – the North American Church isn’t what they try to sell us. Good people get sucked in by peer pressure, a need to belong, our own sin etc.
I’m not the assistant Holy Spirit, but I am called to look at the fruit in someone’s life.
May God in His mercy, keep us from the tares and snares.
Friend
Funny, I’ve been wondering that too. Did any members of the church say something?
As a Canadian, if I was in that service, would I have had the courage to walk out, or would I stayed out of a need to be polite?
Kirk wasn’t speaking to me, I’m not a potential donor to his cause.
Would I have said anything I’ve said here if asked?
Even sadder, would it make any difference?
Exactly. If Enid Baptist members did speak up, what would the the cost be for them?
Jojo (and Dee), I see how my comment could be misconstrued and I apologize for implying Dee is anything less than an extraordinary investigator! My assumption was that Dee is crazy busy and didn’t have time or didn’t see any need for that. It’s pretty sad really that it seems no public Christian figure can be taken for granted anymore.
I enjoy the Youtube worship services of Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem. I would appreciate watching non-white church leaders’ sermons. Reverend Dr. Calvin O. Butts, III, regularly has guest pastors preach at Abyssinian Baptist Church. I also enjoy ecumenical worship services and prayers.
Dr. Cornel West sometimes delivers sermons at churches such as Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel at Howard University. I think it would be lovely to reach out to leaders in African American Churches to ask if they have suggestions or if you might embed some of their sermons. They have done so much to shape the church in America and the history of our country, and we all have a lot to learn from them.
I am careful who I follow as a Christian because even religious leaders can say all the right words while doing vile deeds. We see this in sexual abuse and its cover-up, but also in racism and antisemitism. Both the message and the messenger do matter. As someone who is a white Christian I know that I am unaware of many dog-whistles. I also know I’m called to learn about these things to be a true ally to those who are endangered by politics and religion that caters to people who harbor hate.