Woman With Red Hair, Crying
“Abuse is never contained to a present moment, it lingers across a person’s lifetime and has pervasive long-term ramifications.” ― Lorraine Nilo
The Houston Chronicle wrote Former pastor of Cypress station church sentenced for aggravated sexual assault of a child.
The Backstory
Here is the background. Bratton was a pastor at Voddie Baucham’s former church, Grace Family Baptist Church. This is an SBC church. Jule Anne Smith wrote about his arrest in Well Done, Church Leaders: Grace Family Baptist Church Pastors Handle Sex Abuse Case of Alleged Pedophile Pastor Stephen Bratton Appropriately.
According to the Inquisitr, Stephen Bratton, then-pastor at Grace Family Baptist Church confessed to his wife in May about the abuse. She, in turn, contacted the co-pastors at Grace Family Baptist Church. Bratton “admitted to his co-pastors at Grace Family Baptist Church that same day that he had “sinned in grievous ways,” according to court documents.”
Here is the letter posted on the church website in 2019.
Date: June 15, 2019
Subject: Public statement regarding Stephen Bratton’s crimeWe are aware of the situation regarding Stephen Bratton and the charges that have
been filed against him and of his arrest on June 14th.Stephen Bratton confessed to Erin Frye and Aaron Wright, both pastors at the church,
of sexually abusing a minor in an ongoing way for a number of years on May 16th.
This is the first time this had been brought to the attention of the pastors.This activity is wrong according to Biblical and civil law and the church condemns the
behavior as abhorrent.The elders immediately filed a police report with Harris County Sheriff’s Office the
same day, May 16th. As the weeks followed the pastors continued to make contact
with the detective because they desired the case to be brought forward so that justice
would be served. Once the case began we continued to cooperate fully throughout the
investigation.The elders have called upon Stephen Bratton to accept the full responsibility for his
actions and to place himself at the mercy of the criminal justice system.
Stephen is no longer in a position of leadership at the church and is no longer receiving
a salary.Stephen Bratton was also excommunicated by the church the following Sunday, May
19th. Therefore he is no longer a member of the church.Currently we are working to meet the needs of the family and the victim.
We have deep grief for the victim and have sought to respect the privacy and identity
of the victim throughout this process.
Apparently, Bratton molested a young teenage relative over a period of years. He was the one who confessed it to his wife who then reported it to the other pastors at the church. Thankfully, the pastors at Grace Family Baptist Church did the right thing and immediately contacted the police. It appears they did not know anything about this relationship prior to the confession.
The judge gets it. (Other sources claim the DA made the statement.
If you have read TWW for any length of time, you will no doubt know that sex abuse is not about sex. It is about power. In churches, this power is derived from the inherent belief, especially in SBC churches, that the pastor is in a position of authority. Even though the young victim was a relative, the judge appears to understand the dynamics of sex abuse. After all, Texas considers itself the buckle of the Bible belt and most people have some sort of relationship with the church. From the Houston Chronicle:
Stephen Bratton, 46, had pleaded guilty to aggravated sexual assault of a child under 14 in February. District Judge Hazel Jones sentenced Friday him after prosecutors and lawyers for Bratton presented evidence from a pre-sentence investigation.
“This man, who had risen to a position of authority in the church, turned a child into a victim and violated his community’s trust,” said Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg. “The victim and his community deserved, and got, justice.” Bratton was charged in 2019 with molesting his teenage relative, with behaviors that ranged from inappropriate touching to sexual intercourse. This would occur multiple times a day or several times a week, according to court records.
As you see, the judge/DA stated that Bratton “had risen to a position of authority in the church.” It is obvious that he is saying that Bratton used that authority/power to molest a young teen relative who probably trusted him.
Was he a Christian?
Not according to his church Here is what Pastor Wright said about Bratton’s excommunication from the church according to the Houston Chronicle:
“This person’s life is in such a contradiction to the faith that we see no evidence that they are a Christian,” said Wright in 2019.
This is a refreshing understanding. Most of the time, when I contact a church, I am given the same old nonsense that a molester in the church is really a Christian who just slipped. Many churches believe this so strongly that they cover up the abuse and allow the abuser to continue his *ministry.*
However, how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian? Did anyone ever see problems with him and ignore them? I think this is a fascinating question and would be interested in what you think. Perhaps this question would make a good post.
Why did he finally confess his actions?
I have read about 10 accounts of this trial and have not found any answers.
- Did he finally feel guilty?
- Did the victim threaten to tell?
- Did the victim tell others who threatened to tell?
I can only hope that he felt guilty and seek help while he is in prison.
My heartfelt prayers go out to the victim and her family.
So sad, seems to be a daily occurrence nowadays in church circles
With respect to the general question Dee asked…… Look at “King David”! He was guilty of MURDER, yet Bible repeated states “he was a man after G$d’s heart”..
I have heard many “knee jerk” reactions/statement to the question I just raised…
It is encouraging to see that the church is helping the victim instead of berating, shunning and silencing them. I hope they can get the help they need.
I am also encouraged to see that the leaders of the church recognized the gravity and seriousness of this crime and addressed it immediately. I’m also glad to see that they called it exactly what it was: a “CRIME”! They didn’t use a bunch of sugar-coated stupid words like ‘moral failing’, ‘organic moment’ or ‘shadow side’.
I hope and pray that this sets a new precedence for how churches deal with situations like this in the future!
“Sex Abuse is about Power. In the Church, Power is Rooted in Authority”
++++++++++++++
so, thinking this through (and as a result of much reading here and elsewhere):
-sexual arousal
-entitlement to act on sexual arousal
-being in a position of authority/power feeds the entitlement
-this authority/power breaks down victim’s resistance to being acted on,
-this authority/power is an implied threat (if not an articulated one) against the one in less powerful position that silences their voice
-this authority/power is inherent favor given to the one with authority/power (assumed credibility, benefit of the doubt, support & resources)
-this authority/power is exponentially more potent when combined with the concept of God (threats take on a cosmic dimension of eternal consequence)
.
.
is this a sound thesis? what am i missing?
“However, how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian? Did anyone ever see problems with him and ignore them? I think this is a fascinating question and would be interested in what you think. Perhaps this question would make a good post.”
A sermon is a billboard. The life (through & through, all layers) is the product.
BTK was married with children & the lay president of his Lutheran church.
Who sees through façade?
– those who have the gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 12:10.
– those expertly trained & experienced in behavioral sciences who are good at their job (Richard Walter, Roy Hazelwood).
“However, how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian? Did anyone ever see problems with him and ignore them? I think this is a fascinating question and would be interested in what you think. Perhaps this question would make a good post.”
Well, my abuser dad would overcompensate for his moral failings by getting really into theology. He knew all the right terms, verses, etc. to fool people. Little did they know he was a wife beater behind closed doors, a porn addict, adulterer, alcoholic, etc. Maybe the red flag is when they overcompensate? How do you tell the difference between overcompensating and sincerely being a student of the Word, when you can’t see the hidden life? That’s a good question.
Of course, nobody ever thinks to ask the family members who have to live with the person. They just assumed my dad was a great guy because he said all the right things. Maybe that’s the secret. If you can’t see his behavior, ask someone who does?
> “However, how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian? Did anyone ever see problems with him and ignore them? I think this is a fascinating question and would be interested in what you think. Perhaps this question would make a good post.”
IMO preaching and church administration, and even many forms of interpersonal ministery such as counseling, are IMO technical skills that can be learned and applied effectively regardless of the moral character of the practitioner.
They need to be coupled with good character to be fruitful rather than destructive in the lives of others.
Yesterday had news of another arrest for child trafficking, by a friend of many in high places, Anton Lazzaro.
A woman who owns a cab company, & herself a former cabdriver commented:
@CheyCab “If I write a book, I’ll break down some of underground sex world… It may involve persons of power like judges n things. Always judges though. I don’t know why they lean so creepy generally speaking? Certain power professions are more prone to creepy stuff.”
What she knows. Frightening. People in power. Including judges? … that we respect and regard highly? What in the world? Our DOJ is messed up?
People in power.
Samuel Conner,
I’ll add that I think there may be errors in the widespread conception of “gifts of the spirit” as supernatural endowments of competency. Many of these gifts are skills that can be learned and practiced with good competency regardless of one’s status as believer or unbeliever.
Perhaps it would be better to think of “spiritual gifts” more as “ministry orientations.” Some people are gripped by the importance of preaching and are passionate about doing that well. Some are captivated by the beauty of mercy, and specialize in that, etc, etc. Actual skill comes with training and practice, and with hard-won wisdom learned over many years.
But the technical skills can be learned and competently or even expertly practiced by people who are not believers.
I would suspect there’s also a belief that they can get away with it and/or make others discredit the victim if they told anyone. Their power elevates their word over that of the victim’s.
elastigirl,
I’m no expert but I have done a lot of reading/listening on this topic as well. I suspect the sexual arousal and use of power are intertwined. It is not just that a person sees an attractive target and realizes that they can use their power to abuse, but that the opportunity to use (abuse) power is arousing.
I may be a pessimist, but short of God revealing it to me , I have come to believe that there is virtually no way to
spit these snakes in the church. They are so slick, so good at what they do and they know human nature so detection is extremely hard. Also they are often surrounded by enablers. I guess the RZIM scandal did me in as far as trusting anyone in Christian leadership. I met him in the early years , was helped by his ministry etc , only to find out that it was all a lie. I was duped!
“This activity is wrong according to Biblical and civil law and the church condemns the
behavior as abhorrent.” I was wondering where in the bible is it specifically spelled out that this is a sin and it is truly a vile evil. I mean God seems to tend to wipe people out for not worshipping Him the correct way, if U touch the ark to try to keep it from falling etc. But if you are a concubine God did not seem to troubled about said human being raped all night until dead then cut of and sent around like a twitter message.
I truly mean no disrespect but I mean the industry leaders really push the women cant be preachers, RHE went to hell (this one still hurts I miss her), etc. But abuse not so much. I understand this is very badly phrased but I really would like to know from a biblical perspective.
I remember reading once about a guy who would lead the nightly family Rosary with his family. Afterward, when his young daughter was in bed, he would go upstairs and molest her.
I know we are all sinners, but that level of the “mystery of iniquity” leaves me stymied. There is so much evil in the world. It seems crushing sometimes.
“Was he a Christian?” That question is at the core of John Calvin’s systematic theology and the very reason for his doctrine we call predestination. Pronouncements of belief are immaterial, if for no other reason that they are temporal and all too often temporary (cf., seed, rocky soil). Thus determining whether another is or is not a Christian is not something we mortals can decide, God knows his own as they say. Here, Paul and Calvin are in agreement in acknowledging that churches have a responsibility to judge what they can see – behavior.
It’s not clear to me how Calvinistic predestination is relevant to the topic of abuse and personal responsibility. Is there any evidence that Calvinism increases or decreases this type of abuse? Does is make a difference in how church leaders respond to reports of abuse? I’m not trying to attack or defend Calvinism, I’m just wondering how it is relevant.
ALL abuse by a pastor/church is rooted in their belief of power, authority and hierarchy. This includes spiritual, leadership, emotional, and sexual.
Here’s my Biblical perspective. The Bible is a set of books written in ancient times, by writers who were not striving for what we might call textbook accuracy. Some of it is history, but more in the sense that an epic poem might be called history.
The Bible does contain Truth—more than enough to guide a life. It calls for us to bring justice and mercy into the world. This would include rejecting practices that modern societies have abandoned and/or outlawed, such as slavery, sexual abuse, despotism, etc. Christians like Doug Wilson have spent way too much time saying “___ is in the Bible, so you have to live with it.” I fully believe that Jesus would be calling 9-1-1 to report sexual abuse.
Sure, Jesus might also comfort the abuser, but I think He would far rather visit the abuser in prison than at a book signing.
This question is a red herring.
In the constitutional republic known as the United States, this man has been charged with a crime as defined by applicable municipal,state & federal laws.
Per due process and rule of law, he should be charged, and tried by jury of his peers. Fellow citizens who may or may not be Christian.
If convicted then sentenced. He has right to an appeal.
This process is not biblical, it’s constitutional.
As to a criminal’s salvation, in the book of Luke, the criminal beside Jesus admits he deserves the punishment of the state and implores Jesus to remember him.
Jesus states he will done with him in paradise but does not intervene in the punishment meted out by the Roman authority.
It’s interesting that the wife went to the church first, but that’s part of her support system. At least that system recognized a crime had been potentially committed and acted accordingly.
Have Bratton and his two-legged sock puppets started screaming “PERSECUTION!!!!!” yet?
Why?
Because that excuses anything and everything?
(And if not, there’s always the “No True Christian” fallback. Heads I Win, Tails You Lose.)
Connie Gould,
Anointed.
It’s too easy to say one of two things:
– He committed a crime, therefore he is not a True Christian
– His crime has not been proven to MY satisfaction, and anyway everybody sins, and he’s a True Christian
I prefer a different approach. The state of his soul is between him and God. It’s impossible to know what anybody truly believes (and beliefs change). Meanwhile he’s a bad example of anything.
🙂
That.
Except for providing a bad example of bad things, for which he sounds like an excellent example. 🙂
This really highlights the first mistake we are making as a church:
the pastor is NOT in a position of authority.
Better we go back to the church (members) together being in authority UNDER the authority of Christ. To be a bit crass, they hire and fire the PREACHER. Misaction or mispreaching on the part of the preacher and out the door.
We need to teach our families from tots on the pastor is NOT in authority over them, is NOT somehow speaking for God in way the pew peon must accept, and is NO DIFFERENT from any other person at the church.
I taught my kids the teachers and admin at school were to be treated with respect, HOWEVER if one of them did or suggested my children do something that they had been taught was wrong, or that made them uncomfortable gave them permission to run screaming down the hallway for “help me call my mama.”
That held at church. And we left church one Sunday and one my kids said “I do not know what sort of spirit was leading that man in front today but it was not the Holy Spirit. I won’t call it preaching. It was evil whatever it was.” We had a good teachable moment, and the child was spot on. Being a “polite adult” I had already decided that was our last time at that church. Had not planned to fully explain why, but my child picked up that the “new preacher” was off half a bubble.
Turned out later he was not saved, but his mama told him he was when he was a boy and had him preaching on the revival circuit by I believe 5 or 6.
That knowledge that the office did NOT put him authority over us turned out to save us a lot of heartache other families in the church went through.
The King David thing gets old, it really does.
Evangelicals need to really get new material into their Scripture satchels.
You ain’t missed a thing.
The only thing I would add is this:
Good Gawd! Whatever happened to plain old sex between consenting adults?
Religiomnews. Com carried an article about Ruth Malhotra which was aggressively attacked by Defendingravi. Com. I made a comment about the vulnerable victims and others who are part of the detritus left behind by Ravi and I, too, was attacked by many who either deny his guilt or who feel he was like King David and sinned but was still a great man etc. etc. many in the church refuse to deal with the wolves who love to be in positions of authority and power or who grow rich from the gifts often innocently given by the sheep – it seems they are blinded by the celebrity narcissists who hypnotize them. Too many quote the odd Scripture without any reference to the whole message of the Bible and excuse the execrable behavior of those who prey on the flock.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
There’s a very specific list of social behaviors (count on 2 hands, list of 6) in 1 Corinthians 5 which call for excommunication or nonparticipation while these behaviors are active. (Nothing to do with how BBC shunned women who were trying to protect themselves, BTW.)
It seems this church took that seriously, fortunately. Not allowed to participate in church community. Should the social predator serve time & repent & God accepts them into Heaven, good for them, as what happened with the thief on the cross. Final moments. No social networking as a predator among God’s people. But saved in their last breath & joined Jesus in Eternity.
I suspect that many of these people don’t know the story of the latter part of David’s life in II Samuel very well. He caused the nations to blaspheme YHWH because of his evil conduct, and his family was afflicted with troubles (many of the same kinds of things that David had done in the “matter” of Bathsheba and Uriah) until the end of his days and even afterward, and one can argue that the division of the Kingdom and the subsequent idolatry and exile are rooted in the reign of Solomon, who would never have been without David’s transgression. David may have sown the seeds of the eventual destruction of his own kingdom.
RZ got off easy; he wasn’t exposed until after his passing.
I grant that “RZ is a lot like David”, but I disagree that this can put a favorable spin on RZ’s life.
Well said.
Samuel Conner,
I think this is the key…. long term damage to Israel, which tends to be ignored…. RZ scandal has already done long term damage, and will continue to do damage for years…..
His wife reported him to the church…she didn’t cover it up or ignore it. I don’t normally comment but that stood out to me.
elastigirl,
between your first and second points:
– entitlement as born again to “cultivate” arousal – God is all for hedonism – and I’m not “doing” anything (yet)
brian,
Brian, the Bible reports the stories of terrible abuses, crimes and sins often with no comment or elucidation as to what God’s feelings about it were, a little bit like a newspaper just reporting the facts of an incident. Perhaps it is assumed that we all recoil in horror at what we’ve just read. We do know from many other Bible passages how God feels about violence, cruelty, brutality, dishonesty, abuse of power, etc. Love does no wrong to a neighbor. But I think many of our difficulties come from the fact that God does not intervene.
O. T.
Anyone catch the news about Kent Hovind being a wife beater? https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2021/08/alabama-evangelist-kent-hovind-arrested-on-domestic-violence-charge.html
Carolyn,
Yes, it stood out to me also
“… a Christian who just slipped …”
Have you noticed at funerals in America that every churchgoer is preached into Heaven … whether they have any genuine Christian witness … whether they really know Christ at all? Yep, all churchgoers go to Heaven in America … their obituaries will cite church membership, but that doesn’t guarantee that their names are recorded in Heaven.
“… how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian?”
The devil knows Scripture, too.
There are many successful “pastors” in America who are in pulpits only because they have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, a working knowledge of the Bible, and a bag of gimmicks. Yep, there are many preachers in America who preach good sermons and run churches who don’t have a relationship with the Living Christ, who aren’t Christians at all. In an atmosphere of church as entertainment, there is plenty of room for actors … a gullible audience ensures their success.
David was in the military, not the ministry. He wouldn’t want his name dragged into these stories.
Indeed. As I noted upstream, you don’t even have to be a Christian to preach and lead a church in America! TWW records that on a daily basis.
Remember the dynamic of prison and wartime rape:
PENETRATOR ATOP PENETRATED DOMINANCE DISPLAY.
ANIMAL FORCING DOMINANCE ON ANIMAL.
“I’m not doing anything” as in two little kids on a long road trip, where one is running their finger only a centimeter from the other going “I’m NOT Touching You! I’m NOT Touching You!”?
Will you please say a bit more? I know you don’t mean that rape and murder are OK if committed or orchestrated by monarchs, despots, or generals instead of high priests. We use the Psalms of David as worship music, and David is revered throughout Christianity as a great-if-flawed man of God. We err on the side of overlooking David’s bad deeds… and maybe that gives abusers today some cover that they don’t deserve. I’d appreciate your insights.
SiteSeer,
Not surprising in the least.
I’m sure his ‘Biblical’ view of women is squeaky clean too.
Grainne Mcdonald,
Thank you for this great comment.
Absolutely.
Moreover, preaching is not a gift of the Holy Spirit to the church.
There are 18 in total, gifts of the HS to us, the church: Romans 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4. These 18 gifts of the HS form the organic, spiritual, actual church.
Pastor is one, so are discernment, administration, giving, knowledge, wisdom, etc.
“Pastor” does not walk around with all of these gifts & responsibilities in one man. If that is a man’s position & claim in a church, he is NOT biblical & a fake.
Grainne Mcdonald,
So, this site supporting “RZ” is run by RZ’s son. While I have just started reading it, one thing really jumps out at me. RZ’s son says, something to the effect, “I have looked through his phone and see nothing of the “bad things” that these reports claim”.
Hum, either that “stuff” is on the phone or it was not. Apparently, RZ’s son is saying the law firm that did the investigation made it up??? It seems were are all living in a time when there is now NO objective facts…. and if the facts exist, you just discredit them as say they were made up??? Would a law firm make such things up, and publicly release the info?? I hope the lawsuit against RZIM goes to trail an all “the evidence” against RZ is entered into the public record… but the, as we are seeing all the time these days, stuff we can view with our own eyes is getting “retold as not happening”….. sigh..
He’s not married to the woman he is alleged* to have assaulted (Cindi Lincoln). Kent and Jo Hovind divorced in 2016, later that year he married Mary Tocco in a common-law ceremony in Alabama. On January 1, 2017, Alabama’s common law marriage statute was repealed (so no more common law marriages in AL). I think in 2017 or 2018, Mary Tocco left Hovind and so far as I know, they never got a legal divorce. Cindi Lincoln had been living at Hovind’s Dinosaur Adventure Land already and soon became “wife #3” in a “marriage” in Florida (which also does not have common law marriage).
In the last week, things have gotten quite weird over at Kent’s bargain basement young earth creationist “theme park”.
o Kent’s IT guy, name of Steve L***, apparently stole two cars early last week, was arrested and then bailed out. He is currently believed to be in a rehab facility. It is alleged he’d been doing drugs for four months (but also believed to be longer). It’s also alleged that Steve may have embezzled DAL money. For his part, Kent claims that Steve was doing work for 10-15 companies, but that’s not exactly what was going on.
o Kent’s guys then went out to Steve L’s rent house (not on Dinosaur Adventure Land property) on Thursday night and emptied it out. Allegedly Steve’s stuff is on a flatbed trailer at DAL. I noted this could be considered theft of Steve’s property and I don’t think we’ve heard the end of that.
o Last night (Saturday, August 14) the police went out to DAL because one of the inhabitants had a mental break and had to be taken off in an ambulance. The local sheriff has apparently told Kent that the sheriff’s office is not going out there any more for his issues, so the state police were on hand.
(How do I know all this? I’m on a private FB group where some very local people are sharing pictures, etc., regarding this entire crazy mess.)
Now, if someone had asked me at the beginning of July if things would have changed with Kent Hovind and DAL by August 15, I would have sarcastically remarked that he’d probably have lured “wife #4” to his compound, but no, I wouldn’t have expected this. It’s not going to ruin him or his brand, I don’t think, but yeah, I could be wrong too.
*Look, I heard the recording and it sure sounded to ME like Kent Hovind threw Cindi around but I’m not the trier of fact.
Also, the reason I keep an eye on Kent is not because he’s a Young Earth Creationist. It is because he’s an OG sovereign citizen who is actually a convicted federal felon because his sovereign citizen beliefs led him to not pay taxes.
Not to be “picky”, but I’m always intrigued by the question of causality in terms of “beliefs” and “desires” and “actions”. In the case of KH and perhaps of “sovereign citizens” more generally, it might be that the desire to not be subject to Federal taxation is not the result of embracing sovereign citizen ideology, but an inducement to adopt the ideology.
Those are my insights. Seems like every fallen pastor eventually gets around to using the forgiveness/restoration story about David to justify their own situation. My point was that David – while revered in Christendom through the Psalms particularly – was in the military and a national ruler, while pastors are in the ministry. Because they are “God-called” to His work on earth, IMO they carry a greater responsibility to walk straight. David’s sins were dark and his story of forgiveness and reconciliation with God is an example to us all … but, it’s hard for me to do a direct comparison with “men of God” who can’t keep their pants on.
To make a long story short … IMO, it’s premeditated sin to have the story of David ready to pull out of the file as soon as you get caught.
Max,
Thank you, Max.
“However, how does a non-Christian preach good sermons and run a church without being a Christian? Did anyone ever see problems with him and ignore them? I think this is a fascinating question and would be interested in what you think. Perhaps this question would make a good post.”
Makes me think about the pastor at the Trinity Church AOG Scottsdale I once attended. The pastor left after stating that God had been on his case for a long time about resigning. Years later and a few pastors later too there was a reunion as the new pastor was trying to get people to come back. God was all over me to go and so I did.
He stole the night from the new pastor when he told everyone that he “had a religious spirit” as the former and founding pastor and that he got saved in an AA meeting where he claimed to be a religious addict. He said he founded and grew the Church as an unsaved person. This happened after his divorce as he was working in Washington DC with an famous national marriage ministry.
Max,
The damage done by king David always seems to be overlooked…..
Jeffrey Chalmers,
Speaking out of turn for a change 😉 … I think the gist is that David the king seriously repented, whereas today’s abusive preachers keep pointing to his sin as if it excused their own.
… and the personal consequences of his sin
Friend,
Even with his repentance, damage was done… i.e. consequences….
How would you like to in the Army, knowing that your leader is willing to order your death so he can have your wife??
“the Judge Got It”
There is another Judge who got it. False prophets who use and abuse the church and its members in various ways act like they won’t face an Eternal Judge someday. Yes, there is a Judge who sees it and gets it … payday someday.
This is a really interesting question.
It seems to me that David’s repentance may have been kind of superficial. Yes, confronted by Nathan, David confessed “I have sinned against YHWH.” But it seems to me that the prior pattern of neglect of important duties (“in the Spring, when kings go to war, David sent Joab to lead the army …”) continued. He didn’t adequately discipline Amnon for his rape of Tamar, nor Absalom for his murder of Amnon. He seems to have neglected his duty as chief judge of disputes, which gave Absalom an opening to “steal the hearts of Israel.”
At the end of his life, he seems to blame YHWH for the troubles he has experienced, which were entirely natural consequences of his own choices.
Me thinks that when he found that he couldn’t properly punish Amnon, he should have recognized that he had lost the moral authority to lead the nation, and should have abdicated in favor of a son who was less compromised. In order of succession, that would have been Absalom, I think.**
That would have been a good example for modern celebrity preachers caught in sin.
=========
(**As an aside, I think that David’s lament “Absalom, would that I had died instead of you” is a recognition of this. David’s sin cost him his first- and third- born sons, and more. The fraternal violence continued into the beginning of Solomon’s reign.)
That would be dreadful. However, if the leader did that, lost all power, served a long term in prison, realized that his crime had led to great suffering, accepted disgrace, repented, and thereafter lived a blameless life IN OBSCURITY, I might understand later generations singing the songs he wrote.
Just spitballin here. 😉
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2021/06/05/kent-hovind-half-billion-dollar-lawsuit-dies-with-a-whimper/?sh=35a380c16875
And in other news on Kent Hovind…sounds like the makings of a Lifetime Movie!
“Child Evangelist at age 5” on the resume is never a good sign.
Friend,
But, David was a “King”, and we all know story, after story, that “Kings” ( I am now taking about past Political Kings in general) can do whatever they want!!
But, as Muff Potter says, the story of King David is beaten to death…. I think the more important thought is that there are consequences, for actions, no matter what for of “belief” and “repentance” takes place….
true credibility is such a hard thing to obtain, and maintain…
Kent’s appealed this to the 11th Circuit, which will, eventually, drop kick it. I keep wondering what it’s going to take to get Kent and his buddy Paul Hansen named vexatious litigants, unable to file ANYTHING without getting permission from a federal judge.
For the record, I know the writer (Peter Reilly) and have visited his home. He’s a great guy. I was hoping things would improve COVID-wise so I could go to Massachusetts and see Peter (and other people) in October, but I’m not holding my breath.
The sovereign citizens I have observed over the decades have tended to gravitate to the belief (which by the way, is hard to quantify, and there are different factions) when they’ve run into financial or legal issues. Sovereign citizen beliefs offer a different (and completely, utterly incorrect) way of viewing the law. There’s also an element of magic involved–if you file the right papers with the right words on them, the court HAS to dismiss your case.
Just to be clear, this has never worked. Never. Not in the USA, not in Canada, not in the UK, not in Australia and not in New Zealand.
As for Kent Hovind, the reason I call him an Old Guard in the sovereign citizen movement is because he’s been doing this for the last quarter century. Back in 1996, he attempted to file bankruptcy and claimed he was not a citizen of the US. (He was trying to get back two vehicles that the IRS had seized for non-payment of 1991-1993 taxes.) He actually filed a document in 1998 revoking his citizenship with the county, again, as an attempt to get out from underneath his taxes. I could go on and on and on. But as to whether Kent believed sovereign citizen nuttery before his tax issues, it is really hard to say. In fact, it might be a chicken and egg situation. Which came first?
i.e. Desperate and looking for a way out.
As someone put it, “They know the Secret Cheat Codes.”
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
The whole thing sounds like it’s straight out of a Scorsese mob flick.
Except Scorsese’s mob flicks *work*. This stuff will *never* work.
Here’s a link to Meads v. Meads, a sovereign citizen case from Canada in 2012. It is the reference case for Canadian sovereign citizen cases. Note that in Canada sovereign citizens are called “freemen on the land,” but it’s the same deal. If you want to do a deep dive into what Alberta Associate Chief Justice J.D. Rooke calls “organized pseudolegal commercial argument” [OPCA], this is a good place to start.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
In US law we don’t have reference cases, because these are considered advisory opinions and here in the USA, there has to be something in actual contention. Justice Rooke uses this particular child and spousal support case to go into a long discussion of OPCA and why it’s simply nonsense.
Anyway, if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to get in the weeds, that’s what you need to read. There is nothing similar in US law, but a lot of it is analogous to what’s happening in American state and federal courts.
Which in some cases, is just showing up as the right demographic (correct age, gender, race, height, with good hair, & all that stuff).
+ religion = cult. Lots of household names in that category. All because, “God”.
The Bible is full of accounts of false prophets & fake messiahs. Nothing new.
That Tiger Land guy.
Then the Tiger Land gal, legendary for her disappeared partner possibly buried in the theme park.
Netflix doc series. Stranger than fiction.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I still think that if they ever do a documentary expose film on evangelicalism,
Joe Pesci should narrate it.
SiteSeer,
Regarding Brian’s original question:
God did not intervene? Have you continued to read the rest of that story, how it ends? Thousands of people die and almost the entirety of one of the twelve tribes is wiped out by the other 11. They asked God what to do and he told them to attack. I can think of no other time when God intervened in a more obvious way. Makes me wonder the opposite of what has been said. Do we really want God to intervene if this kind of thing could be a result?
To me the big takeaway is to go back to the beginning. God did not want Israel to have kings because absolute power does corrupt. If David had stayed a shepherd it is unlikely that he could have gotten into so much trouble. But Israel demanded a king and this was the best human possible for the job. And yet the lesson I get from this is blessed is the humble man and cursed is he who is given too much power and authority. Jesus is the Only One who can handle that. We tend to mess that up. The bigger the power the bigger the screw up…
Not only did king David pay a heavy price, but his family, as well as the Israeli nation paid.
The consequences of the sin of just one man can cascade into so many lives for years.
Muff Potter,
And just think, a VERY large group of fundamentalists and evangelicals cite Kent Hovid along with Ken Ham supporting their, young earth, literal 6 day creation belief. Sigh…
That doesn’t make sense to me. If God was merely humoring the cantankerous Israelites by acceding to their demand for a king, why would God send the best human possible, and why would the best human possible be so utterly flawed? Or did God deliberately send a suboptimal king to punish Israel? Why would God do that?
These are not serious questions… I just don’t think there’s a clear case for seeing intervention that is all-knowing and just. Sometimes in the Bible things simply Happen.
Because he looks like you and me. I keep looking in the mirror at myself, philosophically speaking. What I see tells me I do not want the kind of power the kings of Israel had. Now perhaps you are much better than I am. Still, how many here would like you to have that much power? I do not trust anyone after the things I have seen…
Like when that Rabbi from Nazareth commented on the Siloam tower collapse.
Setting a chain of events in action that can echo through generations.
THAT was the original meaning of the Christianese term “Generational Curses”.
Remember Judge Tim?
I think he said once “When the defendant starts his defesne by reading a Sovereign Citizen manifesto into the record, you know it’s going to be a LONG day.”
Mr. Jesperson,
If God’s alleged intervention is just the lowest common denominator, 1) God didn’t intervene, or 2) God might as well have left it up to us. Either way, the Israelites end up with David. I’d rather that God do perceptible good when He intervenes.
God has comforted and consoled me through terrible times. That is ample blessing. Has God prevented worse things from happening to me? I think so, but I don’t expect to be protected from, say, grave illnesses just because I am a Christian. I also don’t expect God to strike people with illnesses because of their beliefs. Scripture, prayer, and community are more to see us through.
I see it as just a great big roulette wheel, the great big roulette wheel of life, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be will be…
I agree, more often than not, poo-poo just happens, no rhyme, no reason.
Didn’t that Rabbi from Nazareth say the same about the Siloam Tower Collapse?
It wasn’t Paul, so it is irrelevant.
Paul or Calvin?