Jupiter, Storms, Science and Art-JPL and Sean Doran
“I would rather be a little nobody, then to be an evil somebody.” ― Abraham Lincoln
Dave Ramsey has made a living helping people get out of debt. Some of his advice is good. For example, we made sure we had the cash in hand before we began our long-overdue kitchen renovation. However, we ignored his advice on buying a house and am glad that we did. Ramsey has made his fortune getting churches to showcase and present his program to the members. Good for him. How well do the churches know him?
However, just because he considers himself an exemplary Christian, doesn’t mean that he acts like one. I don’t like know-it-all bullies. You know, the guys who make it big and then take it out on the little guy. These are guys who often have unresolved issues from childhood. They were the guys who got beaten up on the school playground and nurtured that anger through the years. They hit the big time and they can go to town.
Often these folks believe they are the experts in every area. Ramsey, who is an expert on personal finances, appears to believe that he is also the reigning expert on COVID. He’s not and that’s dangerous. Ramsey appears to be one of those guys who believes *conspiracy theories* just like any other *$8/hr twerp.* More on that in a minute.
Dave Ramsey apparently thinks masks are bad because they demonstrate fear.
Yes, this is Dave Ramsey who is so fearful of gossip that he allegedly brought a gun to a staff meeting one time.
“This is the guy who once pulled a loaded pistol out of a gift bag to teach us a lesson about gossip,” they said. “It was bizarre, even for Ramsey.
Ramsey seems to believe that masks are a sign of fear and his financial wizard employees should have no fear because it is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. So, he decided that there was no way he was going to allow his employees to work from home during the pandemic. And, in keeping with conspiracy theorists, he seems to think that mask mandates, etc. are signs of a totalitarian government. According to the next article, his staff had 50 cases of COVID in mid-November.
Dave Ramsey, Christian personal finance guru, defies COVID-19 to keep staff at desks
Ramsey Solutions, the company founded by the bestselling author and radio host, plans to host “Boots & BBQ,” a large in-person Christmas party, for hundreds of staff members at the company’s Franklin, Tennessee, headquarters, despite an outbreak of more than 50 cases at the company’s headquarter.
…In staff meetings and on his radio show, Ramsey described masks and other COVID-19 prevention strategies as a sign of fear.
…Ramsey Solutions does not require masks at its offices — Dave Ramsey himself has been a vocal opponent of mask-wearing and other COVID restrictions. In a clip from his daily radio show, posted on YouTube in November, Ramsey railed against what he called “totalitarian” government restrictions and mask mandates, saying he wanted to “start a crusade” against them.
…Among that number were about 50 cases in mid-November (reported for his employees.
…Lopez said Ramsey Solutions leadership had decided it was not “a work from home employer.”
Ramsey apparently loves the idea that his employees are thought of as weird. I think it is worse than that. I think he is a conspiracy theorist and is scientifically illiterate when it comes to things like COVID. Folks, he is not an expert on everything in the world.
…We know that many of you have felt pressure from family and friends, some of whom think you are ‘weird’ for still going in to work,” said the newsletter.
“Fortunately we work in a place that is used to being called weird,”
Ramsey sued a venue and denigrates low wage earners for following COVID restrictions. Now we know what he thinks of lowly wage earners…
This location would not allow the upscale guests of his conference to use the pool or have buffet lines due to COVID restrictions. These folks paid $5,000-10,000 to attend. These monied people’s feelings were important to Ramsey. In his world, money talks. In his world, the little people are just “twerps.”
….The summit was one of a series of “high-end experiences” put on by Ramsey, attracting thousands of business owners and other attendees, “each of whom spends between $5,000 and $15,000 to attend, inclusive of hotel,” according to the amended complaint in the suit.
…The COVID-19 restrictions at the hotel, which included no buffets or other self-service food along with limited use of the pool or other amenities, made having the conference there untenable, Ramsey Solutions stated in the complaint.
In court documents, Ramsey Solutions claimed the change of venue cost the company $10 million in lost revenue.
Dave Ramsey shows what he really thinks about low-wage earners who are required to tell guests to wear masks.
“Everybody gets to choose what you want to do. This is America — a voluntary thing, you choose what you want to do. But we’re not going to have someone pay $10,000 for a ticket to have some $8 an hour twerp at Marriott giving them a hard time about wearing a mask.”
He gave a huge Christmas party and didn’t require masks. He allegedly allowed COVID positive employees to work in his offices!
Daily Mail: Financial Guru Dave Ramsey Hosts 1,000 Guests at Maskless Christmas Bash as Nashville COVID Numbers Spike
It may be a merry COVID Christmas for hundreds of maskless guests around Nashville who gorged on barbecue and line-danced at a “Boots & BBQ” party held by Christian radio personality and personal-finance guru Dave Ramsey.
… he has preached the COVID conspiracy theory to as a staunch COVID denier, keeping his media empire’s offices open even to employees who had tested positive for the virus. He has referred to lockdown measures as “totalitarian” on his radio program and urged listeners and employees not to be “ruled by fear” and not to fall for what he called the hoax and hype about mask wearing and soaring death rates—despite Tennessee hitting its highest spike in cases in a 24-hour period with 11,352 new infections the day after Ramsey’s party.
…“Fear is not a fruit of the spirit,” he told his employees in the meeting, while rallying them to step up their performance during the holiday season.
Ramsey to employees: Don’t wear masks at the party. It might upset the guests.
Employees are instructed to never comment on negative social media reports about Ramsey.
However in an internal memo written to staff, company spokesperson Megan McConnell warned: ‘If and when you see controversial or negative things about Dave or RS on social, please do not defend us or engage with it. That just boosts the post’s visibility (and we’re not concerned about those people anyway).’
..A private security detail ensured that only invited guests got in, as several local media outlets reported being “escorted” away. The Scene reported that many of the caterers felt obligated to serve the party for fear of being blocked from further contracts.
Who do you think is telling the truth?
Read about the complaint. I have to admit that it sounds just like a Dave Ramsey thing. But the company denies it. I know who I believe.
From News4 Nashville: Dave Ramsey’s company Christmas party subject of non-mask compliance complaint
…A non-mask compliance complaint filed with the city of Franklin alleges that a vendor was told a stipulation of working for the event meant employees were not allowed to wear masks or gloves.
…According to the complaint, obtained by News4 Investigates, the vendor was told it was to not “scare those in attendance.”
…The vendor confirmed the details in the complaint to News4 Investigates.
…Franklin City Administrator Eric Stuckey told News4 Investigates that when he called the Ramsey company that he was told the complaint was false.
“That was absolutely not true. There was no prohibition on that. That all their team members and vendors were welcomed to wear masks,” Stuckey said.
I believe that churches need to do a better job of vetting the people behind the programs they offer their people. Believe it or not, there are other good programs out there that do not have an ultra-rich, conspiracy theorist who makes fun of low wage earners. To me, he sounds like a third-grade schoolyard bully.
He blocked me on Twitter a long time ago.
There is a long, public, history of this guy being a bully….. it is really disgusting…
I would think that guests who subsequently come down with CV, that can credibly be traced to the big unprotected event, and that experience an adverse outcome… might have a cause of action.
Maybe it’s another illustration of a probably flawed interpretation of NT “faith” eclipsing the underlying OT emphasis on “wisdom.”
—
One of the sobering things about the Proverbs’ remarks about “wisdom” is the warning that if you don’t heed Wisdom while she is calling to you, a time may come when you call to her for aid, and she will not answer.
My interpretation of US response to the pandemic is that we passed that point some time ago.
That’s a fundamentalist interpretation of “fear” coupled with this (in himself) irrelevant man’s ambition to influence the rich (a fad). He could always charge his guests less. The sad thing is he has hijacked media and many people have lost the idea of self-articulation. He could start a trend to attractive masks!
From the opening post: “To me, he sounds like a third-grade schoolyard bully.”
To me, Dave Ramsey sounds like a cult leader….
I saw this a while back on another blog and commented on the whole “twerp” judgment. Someone who talks like that has obvious issues. This is the way that, no surprise, malignant narcissists talk about others. And the context within a party for the very rich only looking down at those who are of a much lower class, well there is no class at all in that. This is just another man headed straight for hell while claiming to be going to the other place. The parable of the sheep and goats is just so clear.
Absolutely nobody is afraid of the sight of a mask. That’s just a way to lean on anyone who dares make their own decision or, egad, follow health guidelines.
The reason churches like Dave Ramsey and buy his program for their congregations is because he pushes tithing even if you’re financially in the hole. And he personally tithes on the gross, not the net. Of course church leaders are going to sign up for “Financial Peace University,” because it will put their churches on a sound financial footing, not so much for the church members who take the class.
I’ve watched Ramsey work the American church for years to his personal benefit. His financial peace teaching is really just common sense stuff about how best to handle your money. It’s amazing how many people need someone to teach them financial basics they should have learned in high school. The SBC has been a fertile market segment for Ramsey; a multitude of gullible Southern Baptists have fallen victim to his books and seminars. He may be a Christian, but I’ve never considered him very Christlike.
Ramsey is a grifter. He could offer his financial advice/classes/conferences/materials for free and still never have to work another day in his life. Instead he insults low wage earners and hosts conferences for $5k-$10k pp attenders. What a greedy human being.
Then he shakes his fist at the PANDEMIC as if his opinion on the matter keeps people from getting infected. Like someone already wrote in the comments before this, he displays textbook malignant narcissistic behavior. I be he’s a joy to work for (just ask his former employees).
Shall we review the fruits of the spirit? “…love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”
Those ALSO seem to be lacking from Dave’s response.
Masks are only as frightening as you let them be (situations of something like PTSD aside).
I’ve had people tell me they’re scary “for kids” as a reason not to wear them. I look down at my naturally cautious 5-year-old and my not-so-cautious 3-year-old, both contentedly wearing their masks while at the park or the grocery store, and think, mm, I don’t think kids are the ones with the problem, here.
I am not defending Dave Ramsey in any way, but Gov. Bill Lee (ahem, now that his wife has contracted COVID) issued the very first restrictions due to COVID last night, limiting public gatherings to a maximum of 10 people. Lee only “recommends” that people wear masks. And has left all decisions up to local governments and private businesses until now.
Tennessee has been wide open the whole time, and for the past week and a half, the state has been breaking records with new cases almost daily. Tennessee currently leads the nation in COVID cases. Maybe they’ll have a parade for Dave Ramsey for helping keep Tennessee in the number one spot at something.
I love to do my Christmas shopping in mostly Clarksville and some Nashville, Tennessee ——— but not this year!!!
As for Ramsey, maybe some other people will do unto him as he has done unto them – he deserves to be treated the way he treats others. And, if any of the $8/hr “twerps” that worked at his party come down with COVID, they should sue his a… uh, behind over it. I took Ramsey’s class a few years ago when our church offered it – – total waste of my time and the church’s money.
Anna,
Well stated.
Never did get the rationale behind investing in a course to learn how to hang on to one’s money & bring expenses down while paying down debt. Math.
He just sounds like he has swallowed the old myth that if you are poor it’s because you don’t work hard & are morally deficient. Thanks Ayn Rand, Prosperity Gospel & so many other false narratives.
Here in the UK we have Christians Against Poverty (CAP) who are a really down-to-earth no-nonsense organisation that helps people out of debt & teaches people how to budget. It was founded by a Yorkshireman who left his career in finance to help those who needed his skills more. It couldn’t be more different. https://capuk.org/
That looks like a great organization, thanks for posting about it. I’d bet many of the churches who have used Dave Ramsay’s services would pooh-pooh it as the social gospel or works righteousness. Being reformed can be financially convenient.
Since I’m currently churchless I want to tithe to charity this year, hopefully to $8/hr twerps and those even worse off. I know there’s an awful lot of lack this year but there also seems to be a lot of giving going on. I wish there were some way to know which organizations were struggling and which were flush. (A list of organizations recently donated to by MacKenzie Scott would be nice as ones to maybe avoid but that’s probably unobtainable.) Anyway, if anyone else has suggestions for good charities I’d be grateful.
Dee, if this request is inappropriate or misplaced please just delete and accept my apology.
I’ve never understood about the teaching to tithe on the gross when we are only paid on the net. I think it’s because the organization (i.e. the church) gets more money when you tithe on the gross.
I used to be a listener to Ramsey’s program and even took an FPU class. I got rid of my credit card.
One thing Ramsey said was that you didn’t need a credit card to rent a car because a debit card that was a Visa branded card would work just as well. Well, we tried it twice. The first time, the rental car company wanted our bank statement for the last couple of months. The second time, the company flat out refused to take the debit card and my sister in law ended up using her credit card.
After that, I decided to reapply for one because, among other things, I knew eventually the day was going to come when either my husband or I was going to get the call that one of our parents was dying or had died and we were going to need to make a fast trip home to say good bye. (We live in another state from our parents). Sure enough, I had to make that trip in 2017 when my mother was placed in hospice.
As much as I can appreciate Ramsey’s teaching about credit card debt, and as much as I can appreciate his emphasis on getting out of debt and staying out of debt, I can’t listen to him anymore. He doesn’t seem to get that medical debt is a big problem, for one thing; and he doesn’t always appreciate that you can’t always save up and pay cash for everything. We needed to replace a bathtub and bath tile a year and a half ago and had to finance it. This coming year, we will have to finance a roof repair. Our house is about 40 years old and there are structural things we need to work on. We also had to replace our heating/cooling system a few years ago, and finance THAT, because the system was just plain getting too dangerous to use.
I believe in the value of hard work, and the Bible does teach that he who does not work should not eat. There’s also a difference between someone who won’t work and someone who’s having trouble finding work *and* someone who is *unable* to work.
I am so tired of Christian “celebrities” who leverage their fame to make a buck in the name of Jesus. I am tired of the celebrity worship culture in Christianity. I am tired of Pinteresty Christian women’s groups with pink lace Bibles and soft, breathy voices. I appreciate Beth Moore’s hard work, and the hard work of other women that publish their studies, but I’m burned out on fill-in-the-blank stuff. I am tired of the rotten fruit that too many “Christian movements” have borne. I still am a Christian, I believe I still love God, but it is no wonder that too many people have become atheists.
Christian celebrity = touch of charisma + gift of gab + bag of gimmicks
There would be no such actors in the American church if it weren’t for a gullible pew willing to buy tickets to their show.
I, too, appreciate what Beth Moore is trying to accomplish … but there would be no room for such outside teachers in the Body of Christ if folks simply read their Bibles themselves and prayed for wisdom to understand and live God’s Word. Folks like Ramsey and Moore fill the gap because American Christians are too lazy to dig their own spiritual wells.
In the Kingdom of God, the first will be last and the last will be first.
As others have noted, DR’s teaching is just common sense, but that may be in short supply in recent decades.
My sense is that consumer mentality and easy credit has got many people over a barrel, and that has impacts on church giving. DR’s materials are pitched as helping people to find financial freedom, but the motive for the churches is to free the people to contribute more. I suppose it’s a win-win if people actually implement the recommended procedures.
I worry a little that there may be a bit of a double standard in terms of how strictly DR’s recommendations — end up being embraced in the lives of laity vs. clergy, particular in the larger and more authoritarian churches. Is it a case of “austerity for thee, but not for me”?
I saw the DR materials in DVD form more than a decade ago. Yes, it was a waste of time.
Food banks have a tremendous burden right now. Our local food bank lets people give one-time donations or regular pledges. (We dropped off food drive items there in the Before Times, but not in 2020!)
The Charity Navigator website gives assessments of charities. I’ve used it recently and believe its assessments are reliable.
And, I hasten to add, probably most importantly an economy that does not work for many people — witness the stagnation of medium wages (even as productivity and the “Firms” vs “Wages” share of national income have steadily grown) in the last few decades.
No doubt about it. Common sense is not very common these days. The Baby Boomer generation may very well be the last group of Americans who had much. We’ve had a major transformation in our society where technology has replaced good ‘ole horse sense. Common sense included simple, sound management of money. Ramsey has a touch of common sense so he sells it to others who don’t. We may soon live in a world where people don’t know when to come out of the rain and late birds who never catch a worm … for Common Sense is close to death.
People who spout the nonsense DR spouts are killing people, plain and simple.
And in the meantime, our school teacher daughter remains in quarantine, her daughter remains farmed out between teacher and pastor, and our son in law got out of quarantine yesterday in time to work a full shift as paramedic. Now we wait to see if he did any long haul close quarter transfers with covid patients, which likely means back in quarantine if he did.
We can help the medical folks help us, or we can flat wear them out and then fend for ourselves.
As you say Max, real shortage of common sense these days.
He’s CHRISTIAN.
No more explanation necessary.
Anti-Mask, Anti-Vaxx, and COVID Hoax are the latest Litmust Tests of Salvation.
As my investments keep shooting up and up and up.
“Imagine how the Market will boom when we reach ONE HUNDRED PERCENT UNEMPLOYMENT!”
— The morning drive-time guy I’m listening to right now
“The Last Shall Be First.
The First Shall Take New Hampshire.”
— Old Doonesbury, when Governor Moonbeam Brown was running for President
So is a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation.
Not Anti-Mask, Anti-Vaxx, and reciting Q-Anon SCRIPTURE?
For the record, most of us who become atheists have just come to the conclusion that there’s no good reason to believe in a god or gods – and the time to start believing something (especially claims that are beyond mundane) is when there’s good evidence. The issues with christian churches (or religion in general) are a separate thing – still problematic obviously. But to me they’re just an indication that all organizations are run by people and thus subject to human problems. Though there *are* special problems caused by the inherent authority of the preacher/pastor that’s accorded to them in the religious context, that we don’t necessarily see in other organizations.
Unfortunately, churches are a good place to find a ready-made community – and it’s tough to step away from that. Fortunately, there are still other places that you can find the community without the baggage, you’ve just gotta look a little harder. I found it in dance – people who like people, without the baggage, without guilt, without ‘authority’ or heirarchy [on the negative side, no community dancing can really happen during covid]. And there are lots of other places to find good people.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yes, the “K-shaped” recovery.
A point I mentioned repeatedly in a prior thread is that our political system is not servings the interests of the majority of the people… which is a bit puzzling in a system that regards itself to still be the world’s premier instantiation of democracy. Maybe “demos” doesn’t mean what it used to mean.
Channeling Inigo,
“You keep using that word… I do not think that it means what you think it means”
I never did like/nor trust Ramsey. Beyond that, he doesn’t teach anything you can’t learn in thousands of places for free. He just slapped God’s name on it and makes money off of it which makes him a worse kind of grifter in my book.
Bridget,
Ditto here.
BeakerN,
Nick Bulbeck was involved with CAP and you can hear his dulcet tones here, as he addresses a Glasgow church on the subject.
– http://particktrinity.org.uk/mp3/16-10-11%20AM.mp3
Has anyone heard from him? He’s been quiet for a good few months now.
Good point. Sums it up. You have succinctly putting in words what feels wrong about his shenanigans.
Sometimes quality issues intervene and stepping away to walk with Jesus alone is a better path.
Seeing beyond the church myth.
Seeing beyond the marriage myth.
Seeing beyond the social networking myth.
Filtering out the toxic, which may mean going solo (w/God) at times, FTW.
All for it.
Quality.
IOW, what is overlook-able, what is a deal-breaker.
Imagine there are various categories of the Word of gawd, for various purpose:
Misogynist SCRIPTURE.
Racist SCRIPTURE.
Narcissist SCRIPTURE.
Delusional SCRIPTURE.
What else?
No offence intended to anyone….and I am guessing I am preaching to the choir…
I thought I would add something to this conversation that I have not yet read in the comments section, although it might have appeared by the time I finish writing this comment. There might be some TWW readers who, in any number of ways, and for any number of reasons, are feeling money-shamed by some of the comments in this thread.
The victims of spousal financial abuse were the first victims of money-shaming that came to mind, but they are not the only ones….
9Marksist Jonathan Leeman yesterday promoting his crooked minister father’s side hustle (devotional book, published by Moody!):
https://twitter.com/JonathanLeeman/status/1341161510383603712
http://www.retiredfw.com/dave-leeman.html
“After a 32-year career as a full-time music minister in various churches in California, Oregon, Chicago, and Dallas…he discovered the ministerial gifts he had employed with music for so many years, could extend to encouraging and helping people with retirement planning and the employment of investment options that provide total security to their money.”
https://rightsforinvestors.com/retirement-surety-crescendo-financial-fraud-sec/
“Retirement Surety LLC (“Retirement Surety”) is a Texas limited liability company formed on February 5, 2010 and based in Plano, Texas. According to its website, Retirement Surety is a “practicing Christian organization” comprised of a group of “state licensed partners,” all from “career[s] outside of the financial services industry” who provide investment advice for retirement planning. From at least 2013 through 2015, Retirement Surety was managed by Respondents David Leeman…”
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/apdocuments/ap-3-18061.xml
April 18, 2018 decision
Judge: “commissions received by Rose, Leeman, and Featherstone from their illegal activities…Rose received $217,130 in commissions from his sales of unregistered Verto Notes, Leeman received $212,263, and Featherstone received $115,414…Respondents further admit that Rose received $80,230 in commissions from arranging for investors to enter into forbearance agreements, Leeman received $31,172, and Featherstone received $5,346.”
December 20, 2019 decision
Judge: “Leeman’s financial condition is precarious and unlikely to improve in the
future. Nevertheless, Leeman is not impecunious, and the seriousness of the
violations and his behavior requires that some monetary sanction be imposed…I reduce the disgorgement amount to $24,343.50, or 10% of the determined total, plus prejudgment interest.”
They’re not charities, per se, but check out the Foundation of your local community college. They have needs-based scholarships and often programs to help students who are in a pinch to get back on their feet.
With the lead in congratulations for 50 years of marriage, and then…
“Also, you should seriously buy…”
And unfortunately, many student scholarships and bursaries remain unclaimed, oftentimes because the scholarships and bursaries are not publicized enough (even within the organization) or the student believes they are not likely (for any number of reasons) to qualify.
Speaking of financial wisdom and debt matters, looks like Liberty is headed to its second bowl game, the FBC Mortgage Cure Bowl. It won the bowl last year, which had a reported attendance of around 18,000. As I assume they’re going to restrict the number of attendees this year, and here’s an interesting wrinkle to the College bowl system:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-dirty-secret-behind-college-football-bowls/#app
“Many athletic programs lose money because college bowls routinely impose ticket guarantees. Last year, according to an investigation by the San Diego Union-Tribune, college teams and their sports conferences lost $15.5 million because of unsold tickets for the 34 college bowl games.
“Richard Southall, the director of College Sports Research Institute at the University of North Carolina, calls the ticket guarantee requirement a “cover charge” for the schools so they can have fun at a bowl party. With these ticket guarantees, it’s no wonder that bowls have proliferated since it’s the schools that are assuming the big risk. In 1996, fans only needed enough potato chips and chili to last through 18 bowl games, but today there are, count em, 34 bowls.”
“Here are some of the money losers among last year’s bowl games:
Orange Bowl. Virginia Tech and its conference lost $1.77 million because the school only sold 3,342 of its mandatory 17,500 tickets.
Fiesta Bowl. Ohio State sold less than 10,000 tickets leaving it more than 7,500 short. That generated a $1 million loss for the Buckeyes and the Big Ten Conference.
Insight Bowl. The University of Minnesota and the Big Ten Conference only bought 1,512 tickets out of the mandatory 10,500, which led to a $434,340 loss.
Holiday Bowl. Oklahoma and the Big 12 Conference lost $318,490 after it couldn’t sell 5,438 of its tickets.”
“Taxpayers are propping up bowl games too. According to the Wall Street Journal, between 2001 and 2005, seven tax-exempt college bowls pocketed $21.6 million in government aid. Bowl committees pay lobbyists to protect their sketchy tax-exempt status.”
Here’s a picture of last year’s bowl:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2019CureBowlPanorama.jpg
Wonder how many tickets had to be purchased in order to avoid a financial shortfall, which is especially relevant giving the evident spaciousness that appeared to have ensued at the game. Wonder if Liberty ever made that public and put the numbers in a communication to students or somewhere in a conspicuous place, especially since they now have another bowl game, with this one in a time of restricted travel and gathering.
I find Ramsey to be an arrogant jerk. I was attracted to his folksy down-home style at first, but the more I listened, the more his arrogance showed through. I don’t need his type lecturing me because I didn’t pay cash for my home or my washing machine.
I may be in debt, but I promise you, I would never look at the guy or gal serving me at the hotel or car wash or coffee shop and think “$8 Twerp”. Talk about class! Way to show the love of Jesus, Dave!
Rather than a “debt-free scream” I suggest we practice the “Dave-free scream ” as we switch the radio channel (or podcast) away from Ramsey’s arrogance and toxicity.
Author @ruthbenghiat was interviewed tonight by @Zev_Shalev on @narativ_live about her work documenting bullies & their social upheaval & plunder of the working class. (Vid link available on twitter.)
“As I write in #Strongmen, corruption works through contagion as well as intimidation. The aim is to shift the workplace climate to accommodate the leader’s crimes (lying, conflicts of interest, treasonous behavior) – and to identify and purge those who will not go along with it.”
@ruthbenghiat documents the degradation (“twerps”) & erosion (collecting their earned $$$) & obeisance (absolute loyalty, control) of the working class via bully strongmen.
Side note: It would be amazing to have Dee of TWW interviewed by @Zev_Shalev on @narativ_live.
Really….the me generation??? Some of the worst financial advice I’ve ever received was from Baby Boomers.
We have seen on the church side of things the ceding of power automatically and the lack of checks because some people are cast as leaders who have watch over you on a whole range of levels etc. (no matter if they are grievous wolves with narcissistic personality disorders in the mix) and are said to be ordained for such things, no matter the actual contacts and facts – – along with claims of having visions and being shown things purportedly from above. And if anyone speaks up, the isolation and vilification techniques can be deployed at a moment’s notice, especially because so many around the situation can be conditioned to follow the leader.
I never put much stock in his advice even back when I was deep into evangelicalism. Most of it I already knew from common sense and a frugal upbringing.
His whole attitude toward Covid seems to be a lot like John MacArthur’s. I think both of them are all about their own money and power and influence and very little else, and probably have been that way for a long time. The only good thing the pandemic is doing is making unmistakably clear what kind of character these guys have.
On the 12.18.2020 post a comment from “Michael in the UK” seems apropos here:
Michael in UK: “Is 55, 58, 61, James, parables, feeding of thousands, crown, last 21 verses of Proverbs.
“This, in Holy Spirit power for living without codependency, is the ‘what comes next’.”
When we were short term missionaries (1.5 years), we saw that the effective & true missionaries were there to plant a church and work themselves out of a job in that community, that country, then move on. They were not there to set up codependency by establishing their own little dynasty of superior leader ruling the ignorant rubes, the savage ignorant natives, the “twerps”.
… wondering about the hierarchy of local “church” set up in the West … and how it is that so many of the leaders go astray with complicity/followers in the pew. Maybe there’s a flaw in the model. Maybe one HS given spiritual gift to the church (Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4) fully engaged (pastor) does not do it.
researcher,
That would be unfortunate. My guess is this varies by institution, but I couldn’t say for sure, having experience with only one.
Dee said: “Ramsey seems to believe that masks are a sign of fear and his financial wizard employees should have no fear because it is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. So, he decided that there was no way he was going to allow his employees to work from home during the pandemic.”
Several times I have heard 2 Timothy 1:7 used to justify not wearing a mask, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ramsey uses this as well: “7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.”
The context has nothing to do with masks, and nothing to do with submitting to authorities (something that we should do,according to Romans 13!). The context is more about fear or timidity in sharing the gospel, parallel to Romans 1:16, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”
Keep your ear out for that verse, and don’t let anyone get away with misusing it.
Ava Aaronson,
All congregation members have sworn false oaths to replace their own true intuition and articulacy with that of someone more out of touch than themselves (a Gramscian dialectic).
The fivefold is not the preserve of the elite. I am especially “into” three of the fivefold (and I think most of us are meant to be “into” two or three or four of them). (I am on the sidelines but they fire my imagination, and am interested in praying for all five if I am given meaningful prayer points.) Since I haven’t claimed to be the boss of those, it’s absurd when I am accused of having so claimed.
My “heretical” Bible says, ascending, He distributed gifts differing. It does NOT say, ascending, He delegated elders to ration gifts differing so severely that no gifts = no differing.
The elders lack because they make us lack. Almost all parables, the OT, James are about this. Selwyn Hughes, Arthur Wallis and the Kansas Five played a big part in entrenching these evils.
Friend,
As nuanced by Wild Honey at 11.55. Did you see how they behaved when they put those blue growths on? (I don’t use a blue one.) They were barging at me as if they had covered their eyes, violating my 6 ft rule which they had abolished. I will stress they have not only improved their behaviour, they have become more elegant (and I don’t use the word elegant lightly). The 6 ft rule is influential in benefitting the population. I also see a lot of people wearing a mask but it is understood there are places where those seriously exempt aren’t much expected. Blanket dismissal doesn’t strengthen an argument, it weakens it by showing up lack of attention. Then there’s the “minor” detail that some of us depend highly on our hearing and on words. NLP told you that you don’t. I mainly see a lot of considerate people, trying to help everybody else, in complementing and not contradicting ways.
Why I was questioning my faith. More accurately, “if this is what being a Christian is, I’m pretty sure I’m not one.” It turns out my faith is intact. I’m grateful to Dee and all of you who post here on TWW for showing me that all of US Christendom isn’t on the crazy train and that my conscience might not be entirely off-base.
Succy,
You are far from the only one….
Lowlandseer,
Oh that’s a great clip – he sounds just how I expected. I miss him around these parts & was very attached to his hilarity as well as his clear way of thinking. Thanks for this.
If you see this Blubneck I wish all good things for you & your family.
Maybe he isn’t quite as big of a jerk as he is being made out to be? It appears that he paid off the debt of 8,000 people to the tune of 10 Million dollars. Here’s the link: https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/dave-ramsey-10-million-debt-8000-people
Don Jones,
be careful with stuff like this. yes, it’s nice he did that. But he could be *virtue-signaling* as well. Many groups do a big deal to get press in order to cover for the underlying problems. It’s called virue signaling.
History tells that story.
The ancient city of Caesarea was built by Herod the Great (yes, the one that ordered the execution of children in Bethlehem, Merry Christmas) about 25–13 BCE as a major port.
The VW car has the Nazis to thank for its existence. Adolf Hitler laid the cornerstone of the Volkswagen factory in Wolfsburg. He wanted a people’s car for everyone (but not Jews) – folks wagon.
Epstein was famously philanthropic even as he entrapped, assaulted & trafficked young girls.
Good deeds used to camouflage pure evil. Pretty paper & a bow. The latest wallpaper over a rotted structure. Spice to hide botulism. Deception purposed for entrapment.
Don Jones,
There are many philanthropists who, at the end of the day, are still jerks.
“Jesus also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves and were confident that they were righteous [posing outwardly as upright and in right standing with God], and who viewed others with contempt ($8/hr twerps):
“Two men went up into the temple [enclosure] to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood [ostentatiously] and began praying to himself [in a self-righteous way, saying]: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men—swindlers, unjust (dishonest), adulterers — or even like this tax collector – (or even an $8/hr twerp). I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector (and the $8/hr twerp), standing at a distance, would not even raise his eyes toward heaven, but was striking his chest [in humility and repentance], saying, ‘God, be merciful and gracious to me, the [especially wicked] sinner [that I am]!’ I tell you, this man went to his home justified [forgiven of the guilt of sin and placed in right standing with God] rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself [forsaking self-righteous pride] will be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14 AMP)
Note: the text in (parenthesis) are mine … but they apply.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
HUG,
You may want to mention that Dee’s resident online pastor WB is part of this anti-mask “Freedumb” problem, but then she would ban you.
One thing I have heard about Dave Ramsey is that with his new headquarters there is a lot of financial pressure to increase money coming in and profits. Thus perhaps explaining (but not justifies) Ramsey’s actions.
David Ramsey may have some good advice though always the “one size fits all” type which is a lot easier to sell I am sure. Like others I have found him quite arrogant including his only willing to admit there is one way to do something.
I saw somewhere online that showed Ramsey’s Christmas party and it was quite shocking and looked like what you would expect at any party pre Covid-19.
I’ve read (I think in secular contexts, but it certainly is valid and resembles Jesus’ teachings about relationships between those who have more power and those who have less) that
if you want to know what a person is really like, closely observe how that person treats his/her servants.
I have the impression that DR does not measure up well by that standard.
One thing you need to realize with this is that I’m sure this $10 million of debt that Ramsey paid off didn’t cost them 10 million. In all likelihood it was probably cost them pennies on the dollar as Ramsey used to say about Bill collectors and old debt.
Thus might have cost Ramsey like 1-2 million.
Still nice but not as large as one thinks.
Max,
Thx, Max.
Certain bullies tell us not to wear masks or follow health guidelines. They tell us that we should all go to our workplaces. Faith over fear. God is in charge.
Question: Why does anybody need a job? Shouldn’t we all just step outside and grab some handfuls of manna?
Another point is that the impact getting COVID-19 would have on someone like Dave Ramsey would probably be minimal (unless it was fatal) vs. a lot of other people. These other people would include the “twerps” that he referred to. Ramsey could afford to not work while he recovers and I am sure has good health insurance or resources to pay for treatement while others don’t.
Thus no real empathy for those “twerps.”
dee,
Don Jones,
Note this from the article.
“Our team at Ramsey Solutions was able to make that dream come true for 8,000 people this holiday season.”
I seriously doubt that Ramsey contributed $10 million of his own money. My guess is the average Joes donated to help pay off the debt. And it could very well be tax deductible depending on how the organization the monies were given to was set up. Of course this is the same for any company that does this.
CM,
There is something that you don’t understand about Wade and me. I disagree with him on as number of items. including the age of creation. I am a theistic evolutionist. He has also disagreed with me on quite a few things. Yet, unlike most people, he doesn’t reject me nor do I reject him. He accepts differences far better than most of us.
Wade has been a constant supporter of this blog and has been a supporter for longer than most. he is opposed to abuse and coverup in the SBC and has made resolutions in this area before many people ever knew there was a problem or pretended to care about the problem. He loves many people in ways that you most likely don’t know about.
There was one time I deleted/stopped comments and that was when people started criticising him during EChurch. The purpose of that post is for people to connect to God in worship. It is the one place where debate is not allowed unless one is asking a question. I’m surprised that some don’t understand the difference.
I’m tired of the cancel culture. I lost two friends over whmo I support or whom I am willing to be friends with. I won’t cancel our friendship nor will he. He was there for me when some difficult things connected with this blog happened.
Wade is my friend despite our disagreement over masks, etc. I could text him right now and he would answer me within short order and be willing to listen and offer advice. I hope you have such friends.
Bridget,
We were volunteering at a nonprofit during this Covid season. Discovered it was poorly run. A philanthropist friend clued us in. The gentleman who set up the nonprofit was seeking a tax write off and didn’t care. End of our volunteering there. Served the gentleman’s purpose but not ours.
Ava Aaronson,
Sorry to hear that for you, but not surprised about the right-off opp. Hope you found a new opportunity where you can be of service to those in need.
Rejoice with me! Our paramedic got his first vaccine shot today!!
We did. Thx.
I drove an air-cooled beetle for most of my youth, even into my 40s.
The air-cooled beetle was the brainchild of Ferdinand Porsche, Not Hitler.
Porsche was an old-school-German-engineering genius, the elegant simplicity, and longevity of the air-cooled beetle is testimony.
It was both: https://m.dw.com/en/hitler-and-his-volkswagen-tracing-the-80-year-history-of-the-beetle/a-43942998
This is something that “Communal Narcissists” do as well. Jesus warned us against them as the Pharisees would blow trumpets before they went to give their tithe so that everyone could see their “righteousness” and giving. The fact that Ramsey put out a press release says it all right there. Jesus said to give in secret. Ramsey already has his reward on earth and it is a part of narcissist disorder to get everyone praising you for whatever kind of show you can put on. Wherever you see press releases with every generosity you are seeing narcissism and nothing but it!
Actually Dr Porsche had been casting around for a backer for his idea of an inexpensive simple “People’s Car” (Volkswagen) since the 1920s. However, he couldn’t find any “venture capitalist” willing to invest in his idea; in Europe of the time, private cars were only for the rich and anything else was Crazy Talk.
And the Nazis were willing to put up the cash for their own ends. One of their policies as “National Socialists” was to Make Germany Great Again(TM) after the national destruction of Versailles, the Weimar economic collapse, and Great Depression. One of the means of doing this was “Strength through Joy”, a campaign campaign to improve the lot and prosperity of the German blue-collar worker, including paid vacations and state-sponsored cruises. (In Europe of the time, “Socialism” was always tied in with labor-union movements; the Nazis just muscled in to replace the unions with themselves as another tactic to create loyal Germans.)
So the Nazis (who at that time WERE the government and were on a roll) were willing to put up the cash. That’s all.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
dee: do a big deal to get press in order to cover for the underlying problems. It’s called virtue signaling…
Virtue Signaling. Covering up the problem, like the Holocaust. Quite the problem.
Buy-in evangelisation outsourcers offering a cloak to churches with skeletons, and a cloak to their own transactions, with a bit of etc thrown in as well (their networking is a selling point).
I saw some genuinely nice marriages ensue; trouble was the couples were told they were “beholden”. All that was merely a variation on other less complex things I’ve also seen, here and there.
There always were tares and wheat. I try to be more the second and less the first, when I have my good days. What a shame christian leaders lost sight of what gospel is, what the potential of christians to minister is!
Rejoicing with you! 🙂 🙂 🙂
SO YOU’RE CALLING ME A HOLOCAUST DENIER?????
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I’m not sure what the intention was, but I did want to venture out and offer comfort, and also potential insight, in hopes that it will help.
HUG, I have learned so much from your knowledge of authoritarian systems and movements. It’s important to see parallels, since the corner church can run a playbook similar to approaches used in faraway nation states.
When I was growing up in a mill town, people were just starting to forgive the Germans enough to start buying German cars. It would take more years before they began to accept Japanese cars. The VW’s connection to the Reich was gradually forgotten. Over time, several wartime industrial links have been rediscovered and publicized. In 2011, the French national railway apologized for transporting Jewish people to the camps. There was no such thing as normal commerce during the war, but daily life continued in a cruelly distorted way.
TWW has grappled in the past with the culpability of ordinary Germans. The consensus has been to avoid universal blame, because the regime had many domestic victims. Not everyone was a collaborator, enabler, or direct supporter.
(Pardon my euphemisms… I don’t want the pugs to have to man the customs desk on Christmas Eve.)
Thank you, Friend, for your words of support to Headless Unicorn Guy. I tried to follow the various comments to discover how any confusion might have arisen, but I only got confused myself.
I wanted to reach out and write Headless Unicorn Guy a supportive comment of my own, but I could not find the words…..
I have asked that politics not be discussed on this blog. Things have been a little crazy recently and some have slipped through. I am going to do what I have been doing for the last couple of years. I will not approve comments that discuss the politics of individuals. If you don’t like who or what someone on another blog supports regarding politics, please go to their blog and post comments there.
Please respect my wishes in this matter. I lost two friends over politics. One because of who I voted for 4 years ago and another because I am friends with those who voted differently than them. My fa mily hold differing views. We have chosen to respect one another on our choices because out love for one another transcend politics.
I have not approved a couple of comments.
They were never your friends to begin with.
True friends don’t stop being true friends over partisan politics.
Lowlandseer
BeakerN,
Thankyou both for your kind thoughts (although I’m sure I sound a bit weird on that recording – must’ve had a cold or something). I’ve been doing a Treehouse tech degree in JavaScript, which has involved spending a lot of time on the interweb helping folk de-bug their projects.
Yes, still very much around, and although there’s less cricket going on due to The Plague, the last year has seen Liverpool win the league title and the world club championship – Sir Jurgen Klopp doing well so far. In other news of similar import, it’s seen Beaks change her initial while I’ve been away, SpaceX launch astronauts to the ISS and return them safely to earth, and a load ae pure weird sheight happen in the wurrld o’ politics an’ a’.
I hope this is helpful.
“Insanity is part of these times.” — Babylon-5
Funeral homes are raising their prices…
https://youtu.be/HXRh-7BJD2E
You really want to know about that sort of thing (and how it intersects with today’s churches), go to Wondering Eagle. I think he actually majored in Soviet Studies and he’s always up on that sort of thing. His blog hits the interface of Christians and Politics; you really can’t avoid it when today’s Christians are so heavily politicized and a lot of churches have Pastor/Dictators running their Kingdoms like Third World banana republics.
You want to know an everyday item with a BIG connection to the Reich, pop open a can or bottle of Fanta Orange. AKA The Nazi Soft Drink.
Fanta was originally the German branch of Coca-Cola. When the war blew up, supplies of the proprietary Coca-Cola syrup (only manufactured in Atlanta) dried up completely so Fanta had to cast around for a replacement using available ingredients and came up with Fanta Orange. Which caught on with American occupation troops during Germany’s postwar recovery and made it across the Atlantic to here.
Fanta DID keep paying the licensing fee for Coca-Cola throughout the war (probably through Switzerland) so they remained part of Coke and were able to reboot their production afterwards.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thank you.
And they’ll swear up and down that the ‘model’ is ‘Biblical’.
Nick Bulbeck,
Yay, he surfaces! I don’t think we ever sound the same to ourselves on a recording as we do when our voices come at us through our own skulls, if you know what I mean. My voice sounds higher & posher when recorded.
And yes this was the year that my divorce from the J finally came through, & TWW & some other places on the interwebs get a sneak preview of my natal N, which I shall revert to in all spheres of life when a few other things fall into line. My hair still remains bright orange & vertical though.
Thoughts I have had running through my mind….. 🙂
BeakerN,
Beaker…sounds like a good program. I hope that churches in the US will switch to similar ministries and stop promoting Ramsey.
This has become a huge racket in America’s Christian Industrial Complex. Churches promote Ramsey because his teachings shame church members into digging deeper into their pockets for offerings. In this two-way arrangement, Ramsey benefits financially by selling folks what they should have learned in elementary school about managing money. It’s a scam of “Biblical” proportion.
Perhaps it has gotten harder to teach elementary school children about how to manage money because the children have had fewer opportunities (in any number of ways, for any number of reasons) to handle physical money.
Pictures in math books, reloadable cash cards, store gift cards, etc., might be the sum (pardon the pun) of their experience….
Most likely. I don’t know how many store clerks (20s-30s) I’ve encountered in recent years who don’t know how to make change! Seems that Generations X, Y & Z didn’t receive basic money handling, saving, investing instruction along the way as older generations. Perhaps there is room for a character like Ramsey to make the rounds and combined with tithe teaching, is a win-win for churches who promote him … they could even put up with him knowing he is a bad-boy to his staff, if the offerings plates were running over after his seminars.
I don’t think the baby boomers are any better at managing their money. They could use classes in budgeting also.
The boomers can from what I have seen make calculations in their head or paper including counting change that later generations seem to struggle with.
Oh, they know how … they just don’t want to! The Boomers have always liked to spend more than they make … they turned America into a consumer nation, leading us into a dependency on China for cheap goods. (and I say that as a Boomer)
I suspect some of the difficulties surrounding a person’s making change in cash may be somewhat dependant on the person’s experience(s) with operating different types of digital cash registers.
Some stores still use basic digital cash registers that may or may not be directly connected to an electronic non-cash payment method. And some of these basic digital cash registers have a digital display displaying the exact amount of change owed to the customer.
Some stores use digital cash registers that have different keys pre-programmed for specific purposes, such as pressing one key for “product x”, another key for “product y”, another key for tax(es), another key for $20.00 (cash tendered), $40.00 (cash tendered), etc., etc..
Some stores use digital cash registers that are connected to a bar-code scanner. And for some of these digital cash registers, keys are (mostly) used to enter codes for products that do not scan. Some of these digital cash registers are connected directly to some form of non-cash payment method, and the operator has store-specific procedures for entering cash payment(s) and / or non-cash payment(s).
Personally, I liked counting change back to the customer because the process insured I had not incorrectly entered any type of information into the basic digital cash register.
I also had far more patience for seniors who did not have their method(s) of payment ready as soon as I had totaled their purchase….some of those seniors were slower at digging out the exact change from their wallets or purses….some of those seniors needed help writing out their cheque.
(FWIW, I really dislike the new so-called “Smart” technology. 🙂 )
Yes, and some young folks still don’t know how to count back change with the amount showing on the screen! They just don’t seem to have a knack for figuring out how many quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies to return to the customer. I blame it on a failure of public school math (old math was better than new math) and parents who don’t give basic money instruction while children are still under their watch. Ramsey likes to see folks like this … he views them as dollar signs when they show up at his talks … they need ‘his’ help! (and they probably do)
I’m also a bit miffed when I hear boomers speak of millennials’ “sense of entitlement.” I’d like to show those types of boomers Beth Kobliner’s infographic comparing the cost of higher education and federal grants for the different age groups. I’m not sure they’d take the time to let it sink in. At least Ms. Kobliner acknowledges the economic differences and wrote a new edition of one of her books, which included adjustments for growing health care costs, too. – I haven’t read her latest edition, but read that it’s adjusted for health care costs as well as education costs. (speaking, also, as a boomer)
I’d rather refer someone to Beth Kobliner and her resources than Dave Ramsey. And I’m familiar with DR, too.
IMO, the percentage of those who feel they inherently deserve privileges or special treatment does not differ between generations. There are segments within all age groups which will mooch all the government-provided and government-managed benefits they can get. The Boomers are no different than the Millenials in that regard … at least the ones I know in my area.
That. And also does not necessarily differ between societies, cultures, etc..
Mrs. Muff and me learned how to say NO to ourselves 3 decades ago, and as a result we’re financially solvent and don’t owe anybody a damn dime.
And I bet you a blessed dime that Dave Ramsey didn’t teach you that! It’s called entering financial peace through the door of common sense. Common sense is not so common in America any longer … indeed, it’s darn near dead!
“OK, Boomer(TM).”
Actually, I’ve always had pretty good money sense. No Dave Ramsey stuff, just always making sure my expenses were less than my income. Only thing is, nobody is willing to listen.
— from a post-game conversation many-many years ago:
WAYNE: HUG, you’re a Boomer so why are you always so down on Boomers?
ME: You think I like getting lumped together with the biggest flood of Perpetual Adolescents to come down the chute in a century? Just because of the year I was born?
In the words of the prophet Pink Floyd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ
(Make sure you have AdBlocker on first.)
researcher,
There is also a factor than when you pay by swiping a card, you do NOT see the money flow from your account. Paying cash or writing a check, you actually SEE the money pass through your hands. And when you don’t see the money pass through your hands, YOU WILL SPEND MORE. When no physical money passes through your hands (and you won’t see it until your credit card bill comes due), the link between the increased goodies and decreased money becomes invisible. Your hindbrain goes, “I Got This For FREE”.
The Silicon Valley types are taking this a step further with something I heard of in Apple Stores. You just walk, in, pick the electronic goodies off the shelf, and just walk out the door with them. The WiFi System pings the purchases for their inventory ID and price, pings your smartphone for your account information, and charges/deducts from your linked credit card/debit card/bank account. COMPLETE DISCONNECT. You just walked in, grabbed the goodies, and walked out. Brain says I GOT IT ALL FOR FREE!!!!! (Upload Selfie of You and all your Shiny New FREE Goodies!)
This is perfectly good practice for the individual (I endeavor do to the same), but at a macroeconomic level, it doesn’t work for populations as a whole if everyone attempts this — Keynes’ famous “paradox of thrift.” My expenditure is someone else’s income. If everyone cuts expenditure, incomes fall across the board and savings goals are frustrated.
The solution is either to export more (hoping that foreigners will be willing to dis-save; but that cannot work if every nation tries it — “paradox of thrift” at a planetary level) or have the national government run a so that the rest of us can run surpluses. That works best if the national government is a monetary sovereign (like US, UK, Japan, which have their own currencies and don’t issue bonds denominated and payable in foreign currencies)
This may be wandering off the reservation, but I think that Stephanie Kelton’s “The Deficit Myth” is a worthy read.
Samuel Conner,
Ouch; that should have been
“… run a deficit so that …”
—–
I hate when what I was thinking doesn’t turn out to be what I wrote. Longing for a “preview”/”edit” function.
And on those credit cards and debit cards containing chips, the contactless tap feature increases the speed with which a person can drain their account(s)….
In circumstances such as this, perhaps it would be best to refer to the smartphone as a “dumbphone”….. 🙂
Yes, I’m very well aware of the “virtue signaling,” I’m also aware that groups do year end giving for the purpose of getting some tax breaks or credits, I’m also aware that there are those who give because of compassion (and doesn’t hurt to get a tax break, but not the main motivator). And, I’m aware that we are warned in Scripture about attempting to judge another individual’s motives. So I will leave the judging of motive to the Lord. However, I am very sure that those 8,000 individuals who had their debts paid were truly grateful for the experience and I doubt are fretting much over the motivation for it. So I think we can rejoice with them – no matter what the motive. Thank you.
Boomer here: never did spend more than we earned, always paid our taxes, and paid into the SS system and Medicare system. Did not like it then and don’t like it now, but would be major unfairness to tell us we paid in but cannot get the benefits we paid for. Don’t bother with the “running out of money” line since we COULD payback what was borrowed, taken, or govt. stolen from the trust fund. Nobody likes to talk about it, but either we have to stop aborting our babies or massively increase working immigrants to pay into the system to keep it afloat. We lived at times in company housing that today’s crop of younger adults would not dream of living in. So no “OK BOOMER” lol. All that said, however, I do see two kinds of young people: those that work hard, figure out college without huge debt on their own dime, and precovid were doing well. And those that don’t. For a variety of reasons, some good and some stupidity I assume since every generation always does some things well and gets stupid on some things.
But today, during this pandemic, I think our only hope economically is to see everyone as a person, not a boomer or a gen x er or a millennial, but just as a person. And we absolutely must come to together as people to stop the virus AND to get our economy churning and burning for everyone again.
Healthy boomers keep healthy millennials in business and healthy millennials pay into the system for our SS checks. Win win if we all take care of each other.
I’ll wager that the guys who create and market ‘smart’phones couldn’t construct a 30 – 60 degree triangle with a compass and straight-edge if their lives depended on it.
From one Boomer to another: you got that right! Taking care of each other is Biblical after all.
Or as my 17-yo daughter says, “I have to shop now – they’re having a SALE! Look how much money we’ll SAVE”
(as soon as we can get COVID vaccines, she needs a job!)
This is something that I can agree with, that a sense of entitlement, or not, can occur at any age, but I don’t know whether the percentage of those believing they’re entitled is the same among age groups or cultures or socio economic groups.
I also wonder whether nonperson entities are bigger moochers than persons, without that mooching trickling down to employees or shareholders for that matter. I’m not an expert, but I have a friend who is more familiar with that world and has mentioned irritation with top end salaries.
We all look forward to life without the negative effects of the virus. And hopefully all would like to see the economy working for everyone. I would add that healthy boomers would hopefully include in their hope and vision a sense and strategy for the millennials paying into the SS system having that same benefit when they hopefully reach an age to receive SS.
He wants “corporate totalitarianism”.
Dave Ramsey theologian system is alive and well within the corporate religious system, ie., the “church.” Churches rely upon the “rich” of our day, and kiss up to those who they have researched(gossiped) about concerning those “who have” verses those “who have without.”
I have witnessed the pastor men/pastors/elders/deacons/patriarchal worshippers in churches, kiss up and suck up, to those who have “money/mammnon” because they are of “more value” to their religious empires and it makes me sick to my stomach, for Jesus, our LORD, never gave His Blessing upon the false lordship of such men.
Never mind the contribution of women within the Ecclesia. The current visible church system is clearly man centered, patriarchal in nature, and regards those who choose not to follow mere man, as “apostate.” And those who choose to follow Jesus, and His Precepts, whether man or woman, are regarded as the “enemy” of the false church system that loves its money/mammon far and above, over the souls of God’s human creation.
It seems to me, that pastor men; love their money, love their lordship over human beings (women, men and children), love the worship of ignorant the lower laity, the LOVE lording it over those they believe are “lost, back sliding, unbelievers, and going to hell.”
Perhaps Dave Ramsey is a visible picture of the health, wealth and prosperity false gospel that is loved, endorsed, and used to abuse the sheep of Jesus Christ to enable a religious system that loves slaughter His sheep in the church building.
Been there, done that, never going back to religion, but have been set free in Christ Jesus and give to those who are in need……If Jesus were return in the flesh, the corporate church system would be the first to lead the cheering….”crucify Him (Jesus}.”
“For it is the time destined for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not respect or believe or obey the gospel of God?” (1 Peter 4:17 AMP)
“TWO PLUS TWO? WHERE DO I DOWNLOAD THE APP FOR THAT?”
My father was a big proponent of “Common Horse Sense” over pointy-headed intellects. (This caused a lot of unintentional psych abuse with me, an IQ 160 artist type.) I found his “Common Horse Sense” could be DEAD WRONG just often enough that I couldn’t trust it.
Yeah, some horses have more sense than others. I’ve also observed during my long journey on earth that some intellectuals aren’t very smart.
🙂
Among Old School D&D Gamers, this is called “Intelligence 18, Wisdom 3.”
I have learned from both the outside and inside NOT to trust raw Intelligence.
However, dismissing anyone with higher IQ or more Book Larnin’ than yourself is a fast track to Idiocracy/Marching Morons Syndrome. Add Bible proof-texts for justification and you get Holy Nincompoop Syndrome.
“Trickle-down Economics” was supposed to put more money into the economy, tricking down to everyone.
What actually resulted was a horde of dragons at the top 1% roaring “MY HOARD’S BIGGER THAN YOURS!”
Did anyone die?
This is the most insensitive, ridiculous comment I’ve received in a long time. What is wrong with you?