The Red Spider Nebula: surfing in Sagittarius –ESA/Hubble
“Of all the bad men, religious bad men are the worst.” CS Lewis
See update at end of post. Quite interesting.
I live in Raleigh which is part of *The Triangle. This includes Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary, and some smaller communities. I lived in Durham many years ago. JD Greear’s church, The Summit, used to be in Durham until he recently moved the main church to a more *fertile* location in Raleigh. I follow religious news and I can truthfully say that I have never heard of Daniel Chalmers or his ministry, Love Wins, or his association with Catch the Fire.
Catch the Firee appears to be the typical Toronto Blessing, New Apostolic Church.
Catch The Fire is a dynamic family of healthy churches, encountering and living in God’s presence, manifesting his love and joy and transforming our cities.Catch The Fire Raleigh-Durham is a church family that is committed to seeing the transformation of individuals, families, and the cities around us. We are part of a larger church family that was founded in Toronto, Canada, and our heritage is steeped in revival. There are many prophetic words over the region of North Carolina, and each one of us has a part in seeing the fulfillment of God’s promises in bringing Heaven to earth. We believe that God has an amazing plan and purpose for your life.
Our desire is that as a church community, we support and empower you to go after God’s dream for you. We strongly believe that the Holy Spirit is not limited to church services, which is why we value spreading the love of God in our families, workplaces, local grocery stores, neighborhoods, and so on; wherever you go, the Holy Spirit will move in mighty ways!
We love you. We honor you. Welcome home.
As an aside, what does their description of a *family of churches* remind you of? Yes, CJ Mahaney’s descriptor of Sovereign Grace Ministries.
Here is his rather bizarre description of Chalmers’ own ministry, Love Wins.
Danny Chalmers passionately pursues the presence of Jesus and has one goal in life: to love like Jesus. With a background in acting, Danny loves the creative brilliance of God. After serving for years at Church in the Son by loving fatherless and special needs children, taking men through inner healing and deliverance, and preaching the gospel on the streets, God sent Danny to Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. There, Danny served and lead in the healing rooms and developed a passion for Jesus to get His full reward. Danny wants to shout from the rooftops the goodness of His Heavenly Daddy and see people completely healed – spirit, soul and body. Just as Jesus was the exact representation of the Father, Danny lives to embody the heart of His perfect Father in heaven. He is on staff at Catch the Fire Raleigh-Durham. Danny functions strongly in the prophetic, miracles, signs and wonders. His highest priority is to love God with all his being, adore his family and then overflow into ministry.
There is little proof offered for his claims. However, his participation in the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry kind of says it all. I am no fan of this group which has some dicey theology. Here are two posts that I wrote.
Bethel Church of Redding CA Tried to Raise a Little Girl From the Dead. Guess What Didn’t Happen.
Chalmers does not appear to have any training in theology and so I approached this story with a jaundiced eye. Che Ahn is listed as a *spiritual covering* for Love Wins.
Why is Daniel Chalmers now known as the *peeing pastor?*
Let’s start with the interview of the woman who was the recipient of the Chalmer’s urine.
This is a rough chronology of the events.
- 10/12/20 Delta flight from Las Vegas to Detroit will be long remembered.
- Self-styled pastor Daniel Chalmers consumed alcohol and Ambien.
- @2:44 AM left his seat and commenced to urinate on a sleeping woman.
- The woman screamed as he stood there with his penis exposed.
- An onboard officer responded and isolated the peeing pastor.
- The victim was reportedly forced to sit in her urine-soaked clothes for the rest of the flight.
- Chalmers claimed he did it and then claimed that he didn’t do it because he’s a pastor.
- Chalmers reportedly threatened the pilot that he would sue Delta for defamation!
- Chalmer’s PBT was 0.175, more than twice the limit for being declared drunk.
- Chalmers was booked and released but his name was not released, causing speculation online as to the identity of this pastor.
- Chalmers reportedly apologized to the victim,
- Chalmers was suspended, then *resigned,* from his position at Catch the Fire on 10/28.
- Do people understand the dangers of mixing Ambien and alcohol? Does the pastor have a problem?
The following are a number of news reports that confirm this chronology. The article in the Charlotte Observer posts the arrest report for your reading pleasure…
Religion News Service: Peeing pastor’ hunt comes to an end
The wife of a North Carolina pastor accused of disorderly conduct during a flight from Las Vegas to Detroit says he had a bad reaction to sleeping medication.
According to Fox 2 Detroit, Alicia Beverly was flying from Las Vegas to Detroit on Oct. 12. After falling asleep, she awoke to find another passenger relieving himself on her. The FBI later said a man was taken into custody and given a date to appear in court, but it did not identify him publicly.
The police report published by The NC Beat said that an off-duty officer saw Chalmers walking down the aisle of the airplane and then heard a scream coming from another passenger. The officer spoke to Beverly, who said Chalmers had urinated on her.
When the officer spoke to Chalmers, according to the report, he denied any involvement, allegedly saying, “I am a pastor, that is out of my character, I didn’t do it.” When the flight landed in Detroit, Chalmers was cited on a misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct, then released.
When questioned by police at the airport, according to the report, Chalmers admitted having a few drinks and taking sleeping medication. He also submitted to a blood alcohol test.
Charlotte Observer: Police name NC pastor accused of urinating on female plane passenger. ‘He peed on me!’
Chalmers’ eyes were bloodshot and he smelled of alcohol after officers detained him after the flight, according to the police report. “Chalmers also stated he took an (word redacted) before he left from Vegas.”
According to the police report, the victim “woke up feeling something warm on her body and when she looked up to her right, she observed Mr. Chalmers standing next to her shaking his exposed penis. (She) stated that she then noticed that Mr. Chalmers urinated on her and she started screaming.
….A police officer who happened to be in the emergency row said he asked the victim what happened, and she replied: “He peed on me!,” according to the police report.
“I then asked Chalmers: “What did you do?” and he replied, “I peed on her, I thought I was going to the bathroom,” the officer said in the report.
…Chalmers later denied peeing on anyone, according to the police report. “Whatever it is she is accusing me of, I didn’t do it,” an officer said Chalmers told him. “When I advised him of what it was the victim was accusing him of, Chalmers replied “I’m a pastor, that is out of my character and I didn’t do it.”
As officers escorted Chalmers off the plane, they said he told the captain of the plane that he would sue Delta Airlines “for defamation of character for their treatment of him,” according to the police report.
This article posted the arrest report which included that the Blood alcohol level:175
Fox 2 Detroit: Pastor accused of urinating on Detroit plane passenger identified
Chalmers released a statement on Tuesday, apologizing for what happened:
“I want to sincerely apologize for my actions on this overnight flight. I took an Ambien for the first time to sleep well on my flight and had a terrible reaction. I am so sorry for how this effected (sic) everyone on this flight and especially one lady passenger in particular. I have reached out and apologized to her as well. I want to please ask everyone for their forgiveness in this. I never intended or wanted for this to happen.”
Chalmers said he would release a statement clarifying what happened on his website soon.
Julie Roys: Pastor Accused of Urinating on Passenger Identified as Daniel Chalmers of Love Wins
Chalmers identity was published Monday night by The North Carolina Beat, which received a redacted police report from the Wayne Metro Airport Police Department after submitting a FOIA request.
As reported earlier by The Roys Report, federal and state authorities have withheld the identity of the pastor who allegedly urinated on a passenger, since issuing him a citation for a misdemeanor on October 13.
Catch the Fire accepted the resignation of Chalmers on 10.28.
We were saddened to hear of the news yesterday involving one of our non-Pastor employees in a disorderly conduct…
Posted by Catch The Fire Raleigh-Durham on Wednesday, October 28, 2020
Some thoughts
- I was troubled by a number of people who claimed that such behavior was due *solely* to the effects of Ambien. Before the information about his PBT was released, I said that this was not just a simple reaction. I even speculated that he had been drinking. Far too many people have used the *Ambien* excuse to cover for their activities. How many of you remember Bill Hybels blaming Ambien for his bizarre behavior with women? I wrote about it here.
- I believe that Chalmers has a problem and that he needs help. He should not be in ministry.
- I was surprised that Catch the Fire booted Chalmers. So many churches play the *grace* game. Well done.
- David Chalmers will continue his ministry, Love Wins, after claiming he is healed from his *problem.* He will claim that God has called him to heal those with substance abuse issues just like he has been *fully* healed.
Ambien and Alcohol: a warning.
Here is a chart to help understand blood alcohol levels and the possible physiological effects.
And here are the increased dangers of mixing Ambien and alcohol.
Not good, not good at all.
Update: A reader got this off of Chalmers’ wife’s Facebook before it was removed today.
It gives insight into his problems.
Numero uno.
“The Yellow River” — I.P. Freely
Years ago I took a bare minimum amount of Ambien for a limited time due to a extended period of insomnia. The doctors were explicit: this stuff is a controlled substance and misuse can be quite dangerous. You do not mix it with alcohol. I don’t remember everything since this is a while back, but I’m pretty sure I had to sign a statement to that effect.
And honestly as much as I think Bethel is bad news, an irresponsible Pastor can be found anywhere. That said, they sure do know how to pick them.
See my update at end of post. Fascinating.
Unfortunately I am all too familiar with this ‘flavor’ of Christianity. It can be traced back to the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles in 1906, then the movement really gained traction with William Branham, Kenneth Hagin, and so on. Not to step on anyone’s toes, but they are a bit of a kooky bunch. They believe their words, when spoken, are ‘containers’ of power – and God is obligated to grant their every wish simply because they spoke them into existence! So they go around claiming this and that, declaring it already done or whatever. For the person who is unfamiliar with their jargon, it could be very confusing.
My mother bought into all of this, gave those hucksters $$ she didn’t have to give, and never saw that mustard seed of faith turn into a pot of gold. I still have in-laws that are very much into the Pentecostal Movement – and they have prayed over many a malady of mine and declared it healed, yet it never was.
So guys like Chalmers….being an actor and all – you just can’t make it up! He fits right in! It’s all a big show anyway, so why not? He’ll be just fine. There’s always a place for guys like him in the charismatic churches.
Ahhh, Dee, Pastor Danny didn’t mean to pee on that lady … he was intoxicated and drugged! That shouldn’t disqualify anyone from the ministry, should it?
You do know that he will be back. He will sling snot with fake tears in a show of repentance and his followers will welcome The Peeing Pastor back into the pulpit. After all, his bio says “With a background in acting …” Actors wouldn’t have a stage if they didn’t have an audience willing to buy tickets to the show.
Pastor Danny has a daughter named “Avalicious” … Google it … Good Lord, who names their child that?!
With a standing ovation
I started laughing … then I got really sad, Dr. Steve. The American church is such a mess and the children of God have been taken on a bad ride.
The modern church doesn’t agonize at the altar when a leader falls … it applauds. Strange.
Their daughter is named Avalicious ????
Yeah … I had to Google it … whew!
If Chalmers has an alcohol addiction problem, that it tragic and I don’t think that alone is disqualifying behavior, provided he seeks treatment and stays in a program.
However, him lying directly to a police officer, calling the victim a liar, threatening litigation, and trying to get a pass for committing a crime based solely on his pastoral status is what is disqualifying. The most troubling part of this entire story is his emphatic statement that “Whatever it is she is accusing me of, I didn’t do it,”
–
That is what clerical sex abuse victims hear all the time. This man can never be trusted in ministry, not because of drinking and drug abuse, but because he tried to use his pastoral status to get out of trouble and he was willing to claim that whatever a victim is saying, without even hearing it, THEY are the liars. He also offered no immediate apologies to anyone on the plane including the victim and her family members. This man is a wolf, not a shepherd. That’s why he should never be returned to ministry.
–
FTR, Catch the Fire did NOT fire Chalmers. They suspended him pending review and he only resigned after the story was broken. Had news outlets not pursued FOIA requests, Chalmers would still be on staff with little to no consequences.
–
We have a Catch the Fire campus here in DFW which was headed by the former head of Freedom Ministry for Gateway, Alan Smith. Alan had prolonged sex with his wife’s best friend who was also his congregant. He further worked to cover up the sex abuse of a 4 yr old child. The police did nothing on that case, likely because of Alan’s ties to Gateway. The formerly cheerful, outgoing child still can’t be hugged and routinely hides under furniture.
–
These are all class 2 felonies, but Catch the Fire Arnotts have done nothing to help the victims or bring the perpetrators to justice. The did, finally, accept Alan’s resignation. They do not have a good track record for doing the right thing.
Shara refers to Daniel as her “hubalicious” so it seems likely that the girl’s name may be Ava and that Shara just added the “licious”. That would be somewhat inappropriate, since adding “licious” to person’s name or title is typically done in a sexually flirtatious way. It should not be applied to children. A female pastor should also not be calling her husband “hubalicious” on a ministry video. This was her version of calling Daniel her “smoking hot rib”. This family clearly has some boundary issues. https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1321501975901425664
It wasn’t until after reading your comment that I remembered that I was a young child when I heard some other variations on the name of the author: “I.P. Daily”, and “I.P. Nightly”.
At the time, I understood the humour, though I don’t remember laughing (which, for me, wasn’t unusual). It took me a moment, but I now realize that some of my siblings were probably teasing another sibling for being a bed-wetter.
(Sometimes remembering “simple” memories like this can be another small step towards healing….)
Amy Moore,
“Catch the Fire” is going to mean something very different when these abusers and those who cover their abuse step into eternity.
Some of those ideas had crossed my mind too, as did some of the ideas in other TWW comments suggesting Daniel Chalmers will make a return to stage (either as a “pastor”, or as an actor playing the part of The Peeing Pastor).
Pingback: Linkathon! - Phoenix Preacher
An item of interest in this case is the glaring undercharging. Simple assault is not a big deal in Michigan. It is a misdemeanor punishable by any of the following:
up to 93 days in jail, a fine up to $500, probation up to 2 years and/or restitution.
–
Because this probably is Chalmers first criminal charge in Michigan, he likely won’t do any time. At most, he may get probation, a small fine and have to pay some cleaning charges. He may even get diversion/deferred prosecution, which means nothing happens so long as he doesn’t commit more crimes in MI for a set period of time. Afterwards, his criminal record would be expunged. That would certainly be the most likely outcome for him, had these crimes occurred in Texas (assuming the police filed any charges at all)
–
The reality is that Chalmers committed multiple crimes.
1) Indecent Exposure: He literally shook his p*nis inches in front of this poor woman’s face.
2) Urinating in Public
3) Disorderly Conduct
4) Simple Assault
5) Lying to a Police Officer during the course of an investigation
It’s also generally illegal for the person committing assault to directly contact the victim prior to the trial.
–
The first 3 charges are routinely submitted in MI for intoxicated people peeing in public. It’s the minimum we should expect. The Simple Assault is added when you deliberately pee on a person.
–
Why is it that Chalmers was only charged with ONE crime and not six? It could be that the Airport Police routinely undercharge in order to keep their crime statistics down. The officer gave Ms Beverly every opportunity to not request charges at all. After she declined that offer, Chalmers is mysteriously charged with the bare minimum.
The Arnotts are based in Toronto, not far from Detroit. Is this yet another example of the Police going easy on pastors because of the voting bloc they control, or is it the police rigging their crime statistics by failing to properly charge the crimes committed?
Wow – Reading the update from the deleted FB post, I read it and see my EX. If my narcissistic ex were to make a comeback and finally get into ministry – as he had initially tried to do 20+ years ago – that’s exactly how he would do it. “Ruined credit” yep – I filed bankruptcy on 55k of debt. He was only left to pay $16k of debt. If he had been smart – he would’ve taken the $35k he received from the sale of the house and paid off his debt. He did not. If you heard him tell the story – he’d tell you that _I_ left _HIM_ in debt. He’d leave out the 15 years I struggled and fought against his reckless spending. He’d leave out the new computers he bought, giving me the leftovers. The new clothes he bought for himself, leaving me and the kids in old, outdated, frumpy, ill-fitting clothes. He’d “forget” to mention that I voluntarily GAVE him 100% of the equity in the house – leaving him with an extra $17,500 just because I knew I couldn’t keep it (cuz I was filing bankruptcy) and I had the HOPE – the SLIM HOPE – that he would use some of that money for the children’s sakes in some capacity. Nope. Didn’t happen. instead he used it to pay the lawyer he hired to fight me and spent the rest on high-living until it was gone – which took all of 3 months.
Yes – he would find someone new to bankroll him. Someone to “sign” so he could get a credit card (new lady – he’s USING you!) someone to pay his way through ministry school. And then the poor ex-wife who was smart enough to get away from his verbal, emotional, psychological abuse then had her precious daughter ripped away! Post-separation abuse is what it’s called!
There are TWO sides to every story. The only thing this post PROVES is that the first marriage WAS probably toxic/abusive. But there’s just as much possibility that HE was the abusive/toxic partner (actually, more of a chance, IMO) based upon HOW CLOSE this FB post is to the “spin” my ex would put on his “comeback” story – if he had one.
What reason do we have to believe he was taking Ambien other than the assertion of a liar?
Max,
People like my Christian friends who named their daughter Phallas. Of course, you can guess what kids did with it. I believe she goes by something else now.
Wow, not use to seeing my last name in the news!!
Note, I know my names heritage back 7 generations, the most distance of which are in Scotland… No direct link…
Now that I’m getting older I take a couple of things that say “may cause drowsiness” on them. That means I am responsible to make sure that I use them correctly. If I’m driving and fall asleep at the wheel and cause an accident, I should expect to deal with the consequences. So, I time my meds accordingly and I don’t drink. It’s not difficult; it’s just being responsible.
Linn,
That’s as bad as a couple who named their twins Syphilis and Gonorrhea after seeing those names on the front of a brochure in the doctor’s waiting room.
She did the right thing … perhaps she is Faye now.
I saw what you did there 🙂
If Pastor Danny gets jail time, what will he tell his cellmates about his crime? He surely won’t tell them the truth! His fellow jailbirds probably won’t have a “Come to Jesus” time with this man of the cloth. This thing is just sad and disgusting on many fronts. The world has yet another reason to look at the church and say “See, there is nothing to it.”
“We were saddened to hear of the news yesterday involving one of our non-Pastor employees …”
He says he’s a “pastor,” but his now-former employer says he was a “non-Pastor employee.” Huh.
I have to agree I worry for the daughter (presumably his daughter by an earlier marriage though it could be hers by an earlier marriage).
So what is the timeline?
Daniel Chalmers age 46 so born ~1974
bar tender, Ember Therapeutics, 2008-2011,
Active in Esther Ministries for the fatherless children (? https://esthersmo.com/, Longwood, Florida)
Assistant to Associate Pastor at Church In The Son (? https://www.churchintheson.com/, Orlando)
Sales Representative at Holiday Inn Club Vacations, Kissimmee, Florida
Bethel School 2015/2016
The couple married in 2016
“Che Ahn is listed as a *spiritual covering* for Love Wins.”
++++++++++++
a *spiritual covering*…. something i need even less than Father Sarducci’s Mr. Tea.
(maybe… just *maybe* someone else here remembers that sketch)
researcher,
“some of the ideas in other TWW comments suggesting Daniel Chalmers will make a return to stage (either as a “pastor”, or as an actor playing the part of The Peeing Pastor).”
++++++++
i’ve heard tell, ‘all publicity is good publicity’.
in this case, i think not.
(i’d think camping in the Shetland Islands or Tibet for the foreseeable future would be an attractive option)
Max,
I wish it was something I had read in an advice column, but I knew the parents and the kid. We were careful not to say anything aloud at church, but the exchange of looks was pretty telling. I’ve been teaching 40 years, and I’ve heard some names, but that definitely the most weird list.
So much I could say here, but I’m just going to ask…
Would this guy have had his crimes publicly aired if he had not been a jerk about everything from the beginning? If he’d apologized, offered to pay damages, not threatened to sue, been decent to the cops, etc.? It’s entirely possible he could have even kept his job, had he been contrite and willing to get some kind of help for his drinking problem.
That said, I bet we have not heard the last from Danny Chalmers or his wife, Shara.
“I want to sincerely apologize for my actions on this overnight flight. I took an Ambien for the first time to sleep well on my flight and had a terrible reaction.”
Reminds me of the lawyer defending a young man in our community who was running around bloody and mostly naked on the field at a middle school girls’ lacrosse game (some Dads tackled him before police got there); his lawyer said “he got some bad mushrooms!”
Well, no, he made a bad CHOICE to take mushrooms!
And an Alcohol level of 0.175 is definitely more than a “couple” of drinks, so he made plenty of bad choices that night.
Though with that combination, I tend to believe that he didn’t realize what he was doing and may not even remember it (NOT saying that excuses anything).
Various media sources are reporting him as Lead Pastor, Love Wins Ministries. He evidently was a “non-Pastor employee” of Catch the Fire.
Amy Moore,
I understand it is federal charges and not Michigan charges since it occurred on an airplane.
Never mind Perry Noble – this guy’s the REAL “Pastor Pee”!
Blood alcohol of .175 plus the lower air pressure (one drink in the air equals four on the ground) plus Ambien. Not only was this guy trippin’ balls, but isn’t Ambien a sedative? And Sedative Plus Alcohol goes synergistic to the point where you could wind up DEAD.
I keep thinking of Ozzy Ozborne’s response when his infamous bite-the-head-off-a-bat incident was brought up:
“I was Very, Very, Drunk.”
And VERY Pastoral these days.
“TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!”
And we all know the Koine Greek word for “actor”, don’t we?
Ah, peeing pastor, what a mess urine now!
Aimee Semple McPherson and the Foursquare Gospel churches?
Serpent Seed Branham?
More likely his former Comrades want nothing to do with him after this.
“Pastor Who?”
“ABRACADABRA!” = Slurred Aramaic for “I Speak and IT IS SO!”
Isn’t the classic difference between Religion and Magic that in Magic the supernatural beings/forces are under the control of the mortal Sorcerer who speaks the proper Words of Power to bind and control them?
“What are you doing up at this hour?”
“I’m peeing on a passenger. Because I’ve lost control of my life.”
I thought I’d heard it all with regard to the fundagelical world until now.
If it weren’t so ludicrous and revolting, it would almost be hilariously funny.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Nice one.
Muff Potter,
I remember the old timey actor Edward G. Robinson in the film Soylent Green weeping into his hands saying:
“How did we come to this…?”
As one afternoon drive-time radio type puts it when confronted by incoherent phone-ins:
“AL. CO. HOL.”
It wouldn’t have been a bad name had they stuck with “Pallas” (which is one of the names of the goddess Athena), if you’re into Graeco-Roman mythological naming conventions. But the spelling–yep, I’d be changing my name ASAP. I’m reminded of the New Zealand parents who were ordered by a court there to change the name of their 9 YO to something else besides “Talulah Does the Hula from Hawaii.” The girl told her friends her name was “K” because she was embarrassed. We don’t know what her new name is, which is fine, because her privacy has been protected.
Ambien is a dangerous drug. I know a woman who seriously injured herself, up walking around in her sleep at night. She lived alone and didn’t know she was hurt until she woke up in the morning. There are so many incidents like this, some which make the news. I don’t know but I would think there are warnings in the paperwork and the pharmacist would warn you- not to take it while traveling! Seriously, what a horrible experience for the poor woman.
Max,
Ah, thank you for clearning that up.
Peeing pastors, potty-mouth pastors, pedophile pastors … pulpit perversion abounds!
“Son of man, do you see what they are doing — the utterly detestable things the elders of Israel are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see things that are even more detestable.” (Ezekiel 8)
Lord, I hope not!! I can’t take much more … and I figure God won’t either.
The Delta flight heard ’round the world … a white “pastor” urinating on a black woman! Just one sad pulpit failure after another … the world looks at the American church in amazement … Jesus weeps.
Che Ahn is a former member of the “Apostolic “ team at SGM before they dropped their charismatic wrappings.
Birds of a feather flock together. There would be no such bird species in pulpits if it weren’t for a gullible pew migrating to their nest. Certain corners of the “church” have become “a dwelling place for demons, a dungeon haunted by every unclean spirit, and a cage for every unclean and loathsome bird” (Revelation 18:2). In other words, the American church is an evil mess in many places.
Doubtful,
Todd was the one who caught that on PP’s (peeing pastor) website. SGM also introduced the idea of uneducated pastors tp the world. (CJ_ I barely made it out of high school.)
Pun of the night!!
I think you need to look at it another way. John Piper’s latest post shows the path to heaven goes through suffering:
Since pastors are supposed to help people get to heaven, the best ministry they can offer is increasing the suffering of their congregants. And what better way to make people suffer than to urinate on them? So you should think of this as a compassionate way of ministering to the flock. Feature, not bug.
(This is where a sarcasm font would come in handy.)
Lots of unfamiliar jargon in this post. I thought I had a handle on “christianese”, but I’m evidently unfamiliar with “pentecostalese”, or should that be “new apostolese”?
The thought that occurs to me from this thread, OP and commentary, is that the self-described “Christian” movement continues to fragment and diversify. Roger Olson recently posted a lament at the decline of interest in (systematic) theology in evangelical churches. There really aren’t any restraints left, it seems to me. The future may be even more disorderly than the present.
The church sent this (from screen grab):
“We were saddened to hear the news yesterday of one of our non-pastor employees in a disorderly conduct incident earlier this month. … This behavior is not a reflection of Catch the Fire, our leadership, and its members …”
1) This is a lie and they know it.
2) This points the finger at all of the “non-pastor employees,” and I have to believe they felt more than uncomfortable.
3) This threatens the members just a bit: circle the wagons and deny, deny, deny, or your friends and neighbors will tar you with this nice broad brush.
From the wife’s Facebook post:
“(ended up three mental hospital before Jesus audible called him by name)”
I take Jesus and mental crises seriously. Mixing the two reminds me of the perils of mixing alcohol and Ambien.
Jesus is not a quarterback. He doesn’t do audibles or hard counts, or try to trick the defense into jumping offsides. Faith is not a game. And if Jesus is calling someone in the midst of crisis, that person owes it to himself and others to see if the call remains after the crisis passes. Assuming (charitably) that this man was on the receiving end of chaos, he has also been on the giving end. Bethel is all about chaos and the irrational. It’s a perfect and tragic fit.
“Crawl forward — even on your knees.”
There’s a way to crawl while not on your knees?
Remember the Theoretical End Point of Protestantism:
MILLIONS of One True Churches, each “Founded by Jesus Christ in 33 AD”, each with a membership of one, each denouncing all the others as Heretics and Apostates.
I didn’t know about “the matter of black and white” factor.
THAT just supercharges everything.
The only defense Pastor Pee has is the Ozzy Osborne defense:
“I WAS REALLY REALLY DRUNK!”
(because drunks DO things like that)
And the reference to weenie-wagging just before the golden shower?
That fits in with alcohol-fueled “See How Clever I Am?” rummy logic.
At which point, there is no way to determine whether “Jesus audibly calling him by name” was a Private Revelation or a mental condition. “Hearing Voices” is a known symptom for a couple mental illnesses. And there’s a reason you don’t say “God Told Me To” to a cop or psychiatrist – they’ve seen so many delusions along those lines that they automatically default to that explanation.
I mean, even I have occasional auditory hallucinations and olfactory illusions; once or twice a year, I hear or smell something that isn’t really there. The auditory ones seem to be connected to waking dreams in a half-asleep state; the olfactory (smell) ones have no pattern that I can see.
I suffer every time I hear Piper preach/teach!
The Pied Piper was just as creepy as the Peeing Pastor when he tweeted: “Down by the river the teenagers would go to make out. I watched them drive back. They never looked happy. Especially she.”
Whoa!
Serious question for you, Headless Unicorn Guy, though no reply is needed.: Is it possible the auditory hallucinations and olfactory illusions to which you refer are actually flashbacks?
I thought I would pose the question, as I regularly encounter flashbacks. I then have to sort through the recent sequence of events to determine: 1) If I was dreaming, 2) if I was experiencing a flashback, 3) if the event was actually happening now, or 4) some combination of the first three.
Am sure some of you have seen already that Falwell Jr. is suing Liberty U over being “wrongly ousted” from his position.
“Mr. Falwell has suffered damage to his reputation, damage to his profession, humiliation, and anguish; lost business opportunities; and suffered other pecuniary damage,” according to the plaintiff’s complaint.”
Guess that $10 million wasn’t enough?
Now that further proves that he has no shame…
Perhaps a “non-pastor” at Catch the Fire, but Lead Pastor of Love Wins. While not technically a pastor at Catch the Fire, Peeing Danny had a major role and visibility in that “ministry” … I’m sure the congregants were sad to learn of his urinary failure.
That usually comes with the territory he was living in. After the devil is done with you, you lose a lot.
Falwell Jr. fits well with this piece about the Peeing Pastor … they both were exposed.
And shouldn’t have made it in church! But that’s the way it is in the American church … a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and bag of gimmicks will get you a long way.
Yup
I’m sure you intended the pun on “they were both exposed”. 🙂 (Although perhaps The Peeing Pastor’s exposure was more readily visible. 🙂 )
The lifestyle of the rich and infamous goes through money quickly! Falwell Jr. needs to go back to the LU piggy bank for more – he doesn’t know what else to do with the rest of his life – nobody wants to risk putting him on stage again.
Because being spied on by a creepy peeping Tom should bring happiness and joy. If he really did watch teens as he described he is a peeping Tom. If he did not watch them he is a liar.
Ah, the vaunted gray area where lies go to blame the truth. 🙁
OK, you passed the test, researcher! You were the first to get that!
Speaking of exposure, I stand in amazement at the number of “men of God” who have have trouble keeping their pants on in America! In the words of an old song “God don’t like it, and I don’t either!”
But it’s not their fault. The zipper industry continues to deliver malfunctioning zippers. At a minimum there should be warning labels on zippers.
I’m glad this pastor got outed, but I bet it won’t be long before he’s back in the in-crowd again. I agree with others that his behavior was pretty egregious after the incident and he shouldn’t be in ministry.
In other news, Junior is suing Liberty for defamation of his “reputation”. It kinda sounds like he’s blaming Liberty for all the news articles. Since once again, it’s the students that will end up paying the bill for LU’s defense, it’s just another in a long line of things that shows Junior doesn’t care one bit about the students.
Catch the Fire is one of the more different strains of Christianity. I think they were associated with Todd Bentley’s Lakeland Outpouring. I think they’re into taking charismatic into another level beyond mainstream pentecostalism.
I think they were associated with holy laughter, barking like dogs, rolling around.
There was a pastor at Emj’s church that really went down that path. When the Florida thing was going on, stated that it was the real deal, and God was manifesting, and he’s coming soon. Tried to convince the congregation to walk up the street and take over the local sports plex because of course the world would soon be in “revival”.
He would talk about seeing angel wings in dust motes and gold dust mysteriously appearing – very magical thinking.
He left to found a “Catch the Fire” church that really has never really grown much in the last 10 years or so it’s been around. He moved on to another city.
While I suppose all religion has a supernatural context, this group really strikes me as a little unhinged. I think they could easily go down the cult route.
If moderate Baptists are fending off Calvinism then I would say moderate Pentecostals are in danger of being overrun by groups like Catch the Fire. I think what prevented that from happening at Emj’s church was the claims were just so wild and the church wasn’t into being “revived” like that – older, conservative congregation.
Maybe the Calvinists package is more believable because it lacks some of the more wilder claims (like resurrections and mass healings that always seem to happen in the backwoods of places like Africa or India). Easier to square a dour, cruel God in this reality of suffering rather than the pollyanna “you could have it all if you only had…faith!”
Anyways it would be an interesting post if there were some moderate pentecostals who would give their thoughts.
Jack,
Yep, definitely not a banner day in comment box….
Friend,
this is just totally cool
ishy,
This item, published today,
https://religionnews.com/2020/10/29/jerry-falwell-jr-says-hes-suing-liberty-university-over-ouster-as-president/
makes it sound like JF, jr is claiming, in part, to be bringing suit in the interests of LU. Somehow, the suit will compensate jr for reputational and business opportunity harm and repair LU’s damaged brand.
——–
I take it as another illustration of the perils of “scale”. Once something gets above a certain size, it is increasingly like to no longer be run by people who love the mission of the enterprise, but will become an attractive target for people who love the power the enterprise has.
ishy,
The floating, burning, dumpster fire continues..
Also know as “wardrobe malfunctions”….
When a leader of any Christian university draws a huge salary + perks, do they really care about the students … or themselves? It was reported at the time of his shameful fall from LU, Junior was making over $1 million at LU and had a net worth of around $100 million. The Peeing Pastor would probably pee on himself just thinking about the possibility of fleecing a flock that good.
I’m not sure I trust RNS as a source, but I don’t know how the lawsuit will do that, because a lot of the publicity came from outside sources.
But as an alumni, I have never once thought Junior was the right person to lead LU. And while he brags about all the money he made LU, student fees went way up and he cut most of the scholarships. He also refused tenure to all but the law professors (who are required to have tenure for students to pass the bar), so Liberty did not attract good professors. I want someone in that position who makes Liberty a reputable school that offers a good education, not simply someone who earns money and gets away with everything because of their name. I want my degree to be worth something, and even before all this, it was not worth much because it’s a poor excuse for a university.
This is the way it’s always been.
The Books of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs are redolent with teaching on men of no scruples who attain high offices.
It’s a simple geographic matter. This movement began with The Toronto Blessing. On that Delta flight he morphed it into The Moscow Blessing.
There is also a fairly lengthy article Falwell Sues Liberty, Saying School Damaged His Reputation, by the Associated Press.
I have not yet finished reading the article….
There is a song about Tequila causing wardrobe malfunctions.
ishy,
As far as I am concerned, this whole situation is a HUGE indictment against the Board Of Trustees. The fact that the situation has degraded this low is a disgrace..
This has been going on for the last 25 years. Remember, Catch the Fire Toronto was originally called the Toronto Airport Vineyard and the Vineyard Churches basically escorted them out when the weirdness got to be too much. Bethel Redding was an Assemblies of God church but Bill Johnson took the church out when things got a bit weird for the AoG.
We also have to keep in mind the other major hubs of this activity, which have slightly different emphases but tend to speak at each other’s location. Among the hubs are Bethel Church in Redding and International House of Prayer in Kansas City. Moreover, Bethel is selling their supernatural school curriculum to churches so they can set up their mini-Bethel Supernatural School of Ministry(s).
What I’m trying to say is that the horsie us out of the barn and has been gamboling in various other pastures for years now.
Yeah. I mentioned this to my dad today, and his response was, “I don’t know how the board let him get away with everything for so long”. But many of them are not academics, but celebrity Christians with either fame or a lot of money.
ishy,
I got the impression from some of the articles that Junior basically thinks the board had no ability to fire him, since he claimed they broke his contract. If his contract was written like that, then they’re all terrible people and all of them should be fired, Junior included.
Even if that’s not what the lawsuit insinuates, I still bet that’s what Junior thinks personally.
ishy,
I completely agree… And just think how often Liberty U, and its leaders, are held up as such “leading Christians/institution” . The whole situation is such a disgrace…
And, the students and alumni suffer the most….. while the “ celebs” jockie for positions and $$$$$….
yup… so Christ like…
Same thing going on in with celebrity pastors. The collective pew finances the pulpit to fame and fortune, while individual members stretch limited dollars to pay their bills.
Remember, he said he didn’t break any employee rules. I guess the employee handbook didn’t cover his particular transgressions.
Max,
The longer this goes on, the more ridiculous LU, its B of Trustees, and Jr look… but again, I am a “evil secular humanist”….
The Christian Industrial Complex has been on a trajectory for several years to make religion in America look as ridiculous as possible. Junior and the LU administration are just symptoms of a larger spiritual insanity ailing the 21st century American church. That’s why God is not religious and doesn’t like going to the churches we have built … it’s crazy in there!!
beyond wardrobe … plumbing malfunctions
I remember that being covered on Friendly Atheist. (Though a lot of his commenters are not that friendly.)
JUNIOR WAS THE ONE WHO NOT ONLY TRASHED HIS REPUTATION, BUT FLUSHED IT DOWN THE CRAPPER.
1) Still had $700+ million to go before he could outdo Kenneth Copeland.
2) Liberty U has been described as “Junior’s real estate hedge fund/personal ATM”.
For what it’s worth, “Cleric Exposes Himself” was an idiom in my early D&D group for Turning/Dispelling Undead. Came from a late-night bull session after a game when “spell gestures” were being bandied about. When it came to “what spell gestures does a Cleric use to turn Undead”, my DM went “Maybe he exposes himself and scares the monsters away”. And the term stuck.
Now life imitates D&D…
At first I thought Jimmy Buffet, but nope, it’s Joe Nichols.
I don’t think so. Can’t put my finger on anything definite, but the illusory sounds don’t match anything I remember. The rare occasions (like once in a couple years) where I heard a voice calling my name, it was never anyone I recognized. I think those were waking dreams. The illusory smells were frequent for a while, but mostly unspecified “something burning” or something unidentifiable.
The only sounds that could be flashbacks were distant toilets flushing and phones ringing. Those were probably because of some plumbing problems that only recently got fixed and the continuing telemarketer siegs while working from home. Heard so many toilet refill malfunctions and ringing phones that I started hearing them when they weren’t there.
This article has some interesting factiods about the Falwell lawsuit:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jerry-falwell-jr-suing-liberty-university-after-his-forced-resignation-n1245258
“While the lawsuit lists only Liberty University as a defendant, the complaint accuses the Lincoln Project, an organization of Republican political operatives who oppose President Donald Trump, and one of the group’s senior advisers, Kurt Bardella, of backing Granda.
“When Mr. Falwell and his family became the targets of a malicious smear campaign incited by anti-evangelical forces, Liberty University not only accepted the salacious and baseless accusations against the Falwells at face value, but directly participated in the defamation,” according to the lawsuit.”
Oh, nevermind that the students, faculty, and alumni had been calling for Falwell’s resignation for years (and most of them would agree with him politically). They’re not important, though. Only the money that could be made of LU is important…
I will be discussing Falwell today.
“PERSECUTION!!!!!!!!!”
What a Mighty ManaGAWD Junior must be to merit such PERSECUTION!!!!!
Like Bob Larson(?) meriting the Personal Attention of SATAN himself!
Though this bit of dialog from Game of Thrones fits better:
“YOU DISHONOR ME!”
“No. You have Dishonored yourself.”
Grasping at straws.
Good Lord! LU trustees knew that Falwell was a bad-boy from a long string of bad behavior … they should have sent him packing years ago!
The Christian conspiracy theorists aren’t even jumping on board with that one, and they’ve backed weirder and much more unfounded conspiracies!
dee,
Please do…. I am “biting my tongue”
Headless Unicorn Guy: Not to diminish or detract in any way from your serious and (for me) thought-provoking reply….
The phrase I quoted reminded me of the 1984 comedy movie All of Me with Lily Tomlin and Steve Martin….the scene in the hotel when the guru associates the ringing of the telephone with the flushing of the toilet. 🙂
This is true, all churches have their fringe wings. I’ve mentioned the Cult of Mary bunch that a Roman Catholic friend was part of. (pray to the statue or bad things will happen!)
Whether it’s Neo Calvinists or Catch the Fire holy laughers, it appears their “mainstream” co-religionists are not keen to rein them in (unless it becomes some sort of public relations issue – but even then there’s reticence to criticize).
My wife’s church never disavowed themselves of the “Catch the Fire” pastor, he just kind of quietly went on his way.
Maybe because the bible is full of the fantastic, no one wants to actually say that resurrections and miracle healings are not happening for fear it negates the stories of the bible (people flying, the dead being raised, virgin birth).
James Randi passed away this week. his million dollar prize to anyone who could prove supernatural claims remains unclaimed (I thought that Todd Bentley would want in on that action – the Lakeland Outpouring was exposed on ABC news and Bentley had an affair – where all the money went is anyone’s guess)
Christianity seems to walk a balance between the fantastical on the one side with the dour/cruel “God has ordained this to happen” with variations on the spectrum.
It’s like a bell curve – with most people falling in the middle. But it doesn’t seem to be a very vocal middle. Hopefully that will change.
I am sure this pastor’s peeing incident wasn’t intentional but you can’t call it an “accident” anymore than one can call someone getting into a car accident after drinking an “accident.” This pastor was foolish.
I don’t like flying red eye flights as I understand this flight to be and have a hard time sleeping on them. Despite this I have never resorted to using sleeping pills like this nor alcohol.
Sad
As an environmental consultant, I traveled by air a lot for 40+ years. Never could sleep on an airplane and never used pills or alcohol as sleep aids. I just toughed it out until I got to the hotel or home. These wimpy peeing pastors would do well to do the same. “Ambien made me do it, Ambien made me do it!” is getting old.
The wise know when to drop a hot potato.
The Geraldine Defense for non-Spiritual Warfare types.
Wonder if Pastor Pee preaches Comp and Biblical Manhood(TM). It’s my experience that the guys who brag about being Manly Man Alpha Males are the first to fold up whimpering when THEY get hit. And Blame Canada before anyone can think of blaming THEM.
The one time I had to fly a red-eye across the continent, I tried alcohol – a glass of wine.
It didn’t help much, but I didn’t pee on anybody.
And either tripping balls or just very very drunk.
Mary Obsession is the classic Catholic way to flake out.
Like End Time Prophecy is to Fundagelicals.
Or Prefect Theology is to Calvinists.
Or cosplaying a More-Ascetic-than-Thou Monk is to EOs.
AKA “Flinging sh*t at everyone and everything and seeing what sticks.”
Usually a sign of circling the drain and getting desperate.
I am “holding my breath” 😉
The Book of Proverbs is chock full of fools who have no interest in wizdum whatsoever.
Sure do, and Father Guido Sarducci was one of my faves, along with Roseanne Roseannadanna.
As a primary care doc, I do sometimes get requests for sedatives for people afraid to fly. But first I make sure they: 1) Will have someone WITH them for the travel, and 2) Ask them to try the medicine (if new) at HOME first to see how it affects them! Just common sense. But Ambien is not a good choice for flying regardless!
That’s good to know. Hey doc, I’ve got this … 🙂
Have a restful weekend. We may all need sleep aids next week!
I found it very troublesome that someone who is clearly not qualified to do so would insinuate here that such behavior would not occur if an individual was impaired only by Ambien. As someone who does not consume alcohol at all, but has had very upsetting and problematic reactions to Ambien, I strongly object. I swore off Ambien a few years ago even though it’s the only thing that’s helped my chronic severe insomnia. I did so many alarming things after taking Ambien that any time I took it out of desperation I asked family members to secure and hide all my devices, take away my keys, and lock me in my room. I wrote and posted signs on my bedroom doorto myself, telling myself I was on Ambien and to go back to bed. I have driven places without remembering it, called virtual strangers in the middle of the night and told them my life story, paid bills and ordered merchandise with money I didn’t have, sent embarrassing emails, renewed subscriptions for things I didn’t want, cooked and nearly set my house on fire… the list goes on and on. I have lost friends over things I didn’t even know I did until years later, all because I was on Ambien. Never, ever, EVER speak to the extent of the effects of Ambien without being a physician who’s prescribed it or having first-hand knowledge.
The peeing pastor got off lucky.
This time.
Had there been a Don Quixote-errant-knight type aboard the flight, and had said dude caught him pissing on the woman, the likely-hood is high that he would have gotten the poo-poo beaten out of him at 30,000 feet.
Mia B,
Obviously you have not done your homework. My husband is a physician who has prescribed Ambien to his patients. I also worked for a pharma company and well understand the reporting of adverse reactions. You are reporting an adverse anecdotal experience. I do not know what other contributing factors that you might have in your life so I cannot comment on your experience but I sure hope your physician reported this to Ambien and immediately stopped your prescription the first time you did something odd.
And, in this case, Daniel had a PBT of 1.175 which means the guy put it away. Perhaps you think that Ambien can be safelu consumed with lots of alcohol?
Muff Potter,
LOL
dee,
PS There are lots of other sleep aids. I cannot believe that your MD allowed you to take this medication with such a history. Did he/she?
Also, I have taken Ambien when I have trouble sleeping due to pain from my psoriatic arthritis. I had no side effects.
One coment not allowed.
Muff Potter,
“Father Guido Sarducci was one of my faves, along with Roseanne Roseannadanna”
+++++++++
i knew i was in good company.
i loved Jane Curtin, too — week end update, especially
Garrett Morris was also crack-up!
Muff Potter,
…laraine newman, chevy chase, dan ackroyd, john belushi…. sigh, those were the days
(i’m sure it’s still funny…. but there’s nothing like the original[s], and 1st generation inspiration)
Muff Potter,
M*A*S*H
McClean Stevenson or Harry Morgan? (that’s a tough one) (if voice were the only criteria, Harry Morgan)
This is like poor Ravi (when a minor), coerced by the CM&A (Dharma Calvinism).
I know sedatives plus alcohol can kill you.
That’s how Heaven’s Gate joined Bo & Peep behind Hale-Bopp.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term Mile High Club.
And Gilda Radner! SNL never reached that standard again.
Max,
Gee SNL was great…
Those were the days… (makes me think of archie and edith)
He’s so lucky that he got his sordid story and mug shot plastered all over the media … the Delta flight heard ’round the world! His luck will continue – I expect him back in the pulpit soon, welcomed by a standing ovation (how cool would it be to tell folks “My preacher is the Peeing Pastor!”)
One could argue that only the men should stand while clapping in this case.
In that church, a woman should be very concerned about a man standing next to her seat. As I recall, some of this bunch was involved in the holy laughter movement … anything could happen there!
Gives new context to to age-old argumemt about baptism by immersion or sprinkling. But I should not give them ideas.
What was the Blessed Reverend doing in Vegas, to begin with? Isn’t gambling forbidden in the Bible?
fflambeau,
Now I have no idea why he was in Vegas. But I’ve been there several times over the last 30 years without placing a bet. Various reasons.
Also there is a major Air Force base there. If the Air Force has a drone in the sky somewhere in the world it is mostly likely being flown by a crew at Nellis AFB.
And while “Area 51” has become somewhat the stuff of legend there ARE a LOT of people who work at various sites around Vegas who live in Vegas. And will not tell you where they work, who they work for, or even what they eat for lunch.
And until March, if you had a reason to be involved in a trade show you likely were at Vegas or planned to be there at least every 12 months.
fflambeau,
His 12 year old daughter from his first marriage lives in Las Vegas. She was originally living on east coast- which is why he moved with second wife Shara from Bethel in CA to Raleigh. This summer Ava’s mom randomly moved out to Las Vegas. Daniel was likely on flight to connect to UK – to join his wife whose father, a well known computer scientist, is dying in a UK hospital. This incident is devastating To all involved. I believe it was Ambien and alcohol that caused this. Also – why did the victim have to blast this on social media? This incident was being handled by airline and law enforcement. I know Daniel and Shara. He is not perverted or deviant as the media is making him out to be.
Good night! You havew no idesa why the victim *blasted* it all over social media? You need to do some
reading about the effects of abuse. Being peed on is a form of sexual abuse. Also, he waved his penis around.
Most normal people would *balst* this out. She is normal. Your response to her is abnormal. You need to do some reading. One thing is certain. I would never, ever go to a church with him as a pastor and with you as a defender of abuse.
In fact, I may base an enitre post on this comment.
.
You know, neither of us were there. Neither of us saw the incident. I am not trying to minimize the effects this incident had on the victim. But I do question the motive of the hysteria and anger that is created on social media. And I do not think this was an intentional act. Sorry to disappoint you. A perverse act, yes, a horrofic act, Absolutely, a disgusting act, yes. But intentional, no. He shouldn’t have drank so much alcohol especially not with Ambien. But I do not think it was his intention to get up and go pee on someone. It’s more likely he thought he was in the bathroom because the plane was dark and other news reports had her sitting next to the lavatory. Why do I not have the right to express my opinion because I actually know one of the parties involved? You only know about this from what is posted online.
And I’m sorry – but what is the purpose of your blog/website? I haven’t figured it out. It’s seems like it’s into a lot of condemnation and stirring hate. I regret having interacted with it. I guess the days of discourse are over. Now it’s just lets destroy and threaten people who don’t think like you. Thank you for your expressing your true intentions.
Juliana,
Thank you for replying. I intend to do a post baseds on your comments. Your posture towards the victim is silly. The victim told us what happened. Many in the plane witnessed it.
Your question “What is the purpose of this website?” is indicative of your unwillingness to put out a bit of effort to discover what this.blog is about, the same way you superficially and cruelly went after the victim.
People who dirve drunk make the choice to harm others. The peeing pastor, who consumed alcohol and took Ambien, made the choice to possibly hurt others by his actions. And he did hurt others: the victim and the plane who had to look at his drunken antics instead of haveing a comfortable flight.
As for your right to express your opinion…I allowed both of your ill informed comments on my blog which I pay for. Why don’t you start your own blog? Then you can kiss up to a man who cares more about drinking and medicating than he does for the comfort of people who enter his orbit. He exhibites narcissistic tendencies. It’s all about him and his comfort. And you are encouraging him by going after the victim. Shame on you,..
Educate yourself. I am putting you into permanent moderation.
Max,
The daughter’s name is really Ava, I think. His wife Shara often refers to her as ‘Avalicious’ on social media, and her husband as ‘hubalicious’. In her serious FB post here, it fully reads as though Avalicious is her real name. It seems like an odd nickname for a child.
Max,
Love Wins is the ministry started by him and his wife