I made the above video clip from the Sovereign Grace Churches website page promoting the Pastor’s College. Whatever they got going there looks to be better than Prozac!
Apparently, times are tough in the world-wide denomination known as Sovereign Grace Churches. Mark Prater, the Executive President of the smallish denomination (a position second in power to only “The Humble One,” C.J. Mahaney, who, though in title is merely the Senior Pastor of a run-away church plant in Louisville, KY, in actuality he functions as the de-facto Supreme Commander of SGC) is seen in a recent podcast bemoaning the fact that they just can’t seem to recruit young men to the ministry as easily as they once did. But Executive President Prater thinks he knows the reasons why this is. Listen in to hear his explanation:
To sum up, the Executive President of Sovereign Grace Churches guesses that young men aren’t beating down the doors to get into the Sovereign Grace ten-month “Pastor’s College” because of cultural apathy, low pay, and gosh darn, it’s going to be tough sledding being a preacher in these cultural challenging times. I guess it probably is a little tougher to make bank than in the days of the fictitious charlatan, Elmer Gantry, or say, C.J. Mahaney, although he had a lot of help from his ghostwriter. Of course, Bob Kauflin made his money the old-fashioned way – he earned it. Who knew writing Gospel songs could make for such a lucrative career? But things weren’t all glitter and gold for the first generation of SGC’ers. For every success story, there is also a story of failure and shame. Take, for example, Matt Wassink, run out of the ministry for marital indiscretions, or Gene Emerson’s rendezvous at a hotel with a “masseuse” who just happened to be part of a Law Enforcement sting.
SGC pastor Ben Kreps, the host of Mark Prater’s weekly podcasts, has an additional reason young men aren’t inclined towards a career in the ministry. Give a listen:
I’m not so sure I agree with pastor Kreps. I don’t know for certain all the stressors he faces in these times, but I believe his occupation is probably a bit less stressful than say a Police Officer, or a Nurse working with COVID patients, or a Doctor, or a school teacher, or a Corrections Officer in a prison, or an owner of a restaurant or bar or health club or a myriad of other jobs. Ben is probably an OK guy, but I wonder if he may have an inflated view of his profession.
Funny, isn’t it, how neither Prater nor Kreps mentions the elephant in the room. Let me give you a hint boys:
Can you imagine what your feelings would be if your son, a recent college graduate, came home and advised you he was going to apply to the Sovereign Grace Pastor’s College in hopes of becoming a pastor in that denomination? I would ask him if he had read the above article, or if he had read this article by Rachael Denhollander, or the lawsuit that was filed against Sovereign Grace or the horror story of Keith Daukas, a Sovereign Grace intern pastor? Then I would say, “Son, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I believe I have lived long enough to know a thing or two about religion, and you are about to hitch your wagon to one of the worst possible Evangelical denominations that I know of. I urge you to reconsider. If you desire to be a pastor, that is fine, but I would recommend you go to a good seminary and find another denomination.”
Shocking, but maybe not when I think how naive I was when I was twenty-something, Sovereign Grace has found ten men willing to drink the Kool-Aid. Of course, four of them attend Mahaney’s church and one is from Prater’s church so they have been subjected to extreme propaganda, but I feel sorry for all of them. Aside from the spiritual side of it, I wonder how many of them will actually find satisfaction “serving” as a Sovereign Grace pastor? And financially, I wonder how many churches are in a position to hire any of these guys?
The most unbelievable item in this podcast is yet to come. Listen below as Mark Prater says they need to start recruiting new leaders from Grade Schools!
Next, it is announced that John Payne and Jared Mellinger have been selected and a part of the second generation of Sovereign Grace leaders.
As an outsider, I have to wonder about the wisdom of selecting John Payne and Jared Mellinger for national leadership. They are undoubtedly both yes-men, well-schooled in the fine art of gospel flattery. But I have written an article on John Payne proudly announcing one of the benefits of being a part of the Sovereign Grace family of churches is the ability to bring in guest speakers like John Loftness. I would also encourage you to look at Brent Detwiler’s article on Loftness titled “John Loftness in Focus – Former Chairman of the SGM Board & Alleged Sexual Sadist.”
Jared Mellinger, in an attempt to keep his church from reading Brent Detwiler’s documents concerning the problems within the Sovereign Grace denomination, had this to say:
“Words can do incredible damage. [A] question for the discerning. Which would be more dangerous for a Christian to be exposed to? A website devoted to sexually immoral images or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down. Friends there is more than one way to ruin your soul. Avoid ungodly speech. Avoid speaking of it. Avoid listening to it. For the sake of the holiness of the church.”
You can read the complete account of this in an article by Detwiler titled, “What Does My Website Have in Common with Pornography? Ask Jared Mellinger!
Detwiler’s words have proven truthful. Many churches have considered all the information available to them and made the choice to leave the Sovereign Grace Denomination. Yet Jared Mellinger is rewarded for his loyalty to the corporation! That, my friends, is a sign of ongoing corruption. Mark Prater should not be surprised his denomination is having trouble recruiting men to the ministry.
One final thought. What role does God have in calling men to the ministry?
Numero uno?
Second!
Tres?
I think it would be incredibly stressful to be in ministry in that denomination. Knowing you are shilling, uh, cough, excuse me, working for such a corrupt organization.
“What role does God have in calling men to the ministry?”
What does gender have to do with it? The Holy Spirit endows 18 spiritual gifts for the benefit of all of the church, one or more to every believer, non-gender-specific:
Rom. 12:6–8; 1 Cor. 12:8–10 & 28–30; Eph. 4:11 1 Peter 4:11
Prophecy, Service, Teaching, Exhortation, Giving, Leadership, Mercy, Wisdom, Word of knowledge, Faith, Gifts of healings, Miracles, Distinguishing between spirits, Tongues, Interpretation of tongues, Apostle, Evangelist, Pastor.
I suspect the most stressful ministerial job is likely as hospital chaplain. My local but major medical center has a diverse set of chaplains, some with specialized areas. The decedent care chaplain probably has to deal almost daily with the families of those who have died especially those who are not local so have no local support group (the center has an international reputation and includes a children’s hospital so many patients are not local). Admittedly Sovereign Grace wouldn’t like that the code of conduct for the hospital chaplains at least at this medical center requires the chaplains to support the patients in their religious belief (or life stance) and not to try to convert them.
One thing you hear is how few children who grew up in a Sovereign Grace church stay around as adults. Thus no surprise they have a harder time recruiting young men for their pastors college. I am sure the reason those who grew up in their denomination don’t stay is due to the hypocrisy they have seen.
It also to be that there was a lot of nepotism with a lot of pastors’ sons attending the college. It looks like that has dropped off now that it isn’t so lucrative to join the “family business.”
I am sure with so many local churches leaving the group they obviously have less of a pool of young men to draw from.
Interesting Prater doesn’t seem to be aware of any of these reasons.
SGC’s emphasis on only doing SGC education means that you can never get out if you go that route. And that means you are at their mercy. They prefer homeschooling, no college (even Christian ones), and their own pastor’s college.
I do think it’s interesting that the pastors we consider most educated really haven’t displayed much more wisdom than Mahaney, though. And, there’s a thread of evangelicalism that considers certain people highly educated when they really aren’t. For example, John Macarthur only has an MDiv and his doctorate is honorary. Ravi Zacharias only had honorary doctorates. People called them highly educated when they weren’t really educated any more than most pastors who went to seminary.
Ah all that lovely hair on those young men. Too bad.
Because we all know that the holy sign of a conformed heart is the emulation of the bald leaders head.
Sigh…. there are so many things wrong…..
It really seems “common sense” is not so “common” in US any more..
Todd
Love the video! . Looks like they want to stress that woomen are really happy that their husbands are at Pastor’s College. That’ll change.
So, who got Mashaney to ditch his basketball shorts for a suit. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him in one.
Todd
WhenI first started blogging, those Sovereign Grace dudes went after me, saying i was sowing seeds of dissesion. I got the last word on that. See the above Wasshingtonian article.
Good catch. Maybe they aren’t allowed to shave their heads until after they go to the pastors college and have earned it. Or maybe they’ll cut their hair like they do in Boot Camp for recruits?
That was one of Josh Harris’s problems that he didn’t go to college. I am sure that was one of Mahaney’s problems also.
Sacred Testosterone(TM).
Remember:
THE WORD “GRACE” IN THE OFFICIAL NAME OF A MINISTRY SHOULD BE APPROACHED WITH THE SAME CAUTION AS “PEOPLE’S DEMOCRATIC” IN THE OFFICIAL NAME OF A COUNTRY.
FEATURE, NOT BUG.
Just like Christianese homeschooling, which only qualifies you for (male) Fundamentalist Leader or (female) Quiverfull Breeding Stock.
Afterburne,
“I think it would be incredibly stressful to be in ministry in that denomination. Knowing you are shilling, uh, cough, excuse me, working for such a corrupt organization.”
+++++++++++++
i imagine they don’t know, having been brainwashed.
where words like ‘leaders leading with leadership as they lead’ have been redefined to mean ‘entitled impressionables controlling with doublestandards as they manipulate’.
Yes, I agree. I know quite a few people who were in the movement and left, but most have been out for some time and went on to go to college or learn trades. But I do know there had been a strong element of “Nobody can touch us” and that PDI/SGM would always be self-supporting and never encounter problems. Even though as Brent Detwiler has carefully recounted, there’s been problems behind the scenes all along.
Now the cracks are obvious to the public, though I bet SGM still keeps their members as isolated as possible. Harris saw the problems in the background and walked away, but those who aren’t in leadership are still probably manipulated into thinking all is well and they couldn’t go wrong sending their sons to pastor college. I’m sure the leadership has great stories to cover up what happened with Mahaney and Harris. But there’s probably little hope that these future pastors will have the future that SGM promises.
Good point. Maybe the can’t shave their heads until they get out of Pastors’ College? They have to earn the right?
Me thinks that the suggestion of reaching younger into the age distribution in search of candidates or “pre-candidates” for ministry vocations is moving in the wrong direction. What confidence can one have that such young people will prove in future to be “trustworthy and able to teach others”?
But SGC is not alone in starting early. OPC has a program of identification of ministry candidates that starts at age 16
https://opc.org/timothyconference.html
Scripture exposition is a technical skill and can be taught to people of any age. I think it would be better to reformulate training regimens to facilitate “2nd career” moves into ministry by older people of proven character, temperament and gifting.
——-
Re: the reputational harm that SGM has inflicted on itself: I have the impression that this has gone far and wide among people who pay attention to the state of the churches. Years ago, an OP minister mentioned to a friend that he thought the Evangelical movement might have scandals brewing that would resemble the RCC’s when they came to light. My friend had no idea at the time what that was about, but in retrospect the timing suggests it was related to SGM. A local independent baptist congregation that shifted (I don’t think this was a takeover situation; the congregation was too small to be an attractive target) toward predestinarian soteriology considered affiliating with SGM, but dropped that on investigation when it became aware of the scandals.
How many decades will it take for SGM to come out from under its cloud? (Assuming that is even possible; if the ministry culture does not change, why would the future differ from the past?) A for-profit corporation with these kinds of problems would change its name (the way First Union acquired Wachovia Bank and adopted the name of the acquisition) and hope the public fell for the ruse.
Steve240,
Interesting bring up college education, and further advanced degrees. Calvary Chapel would sometimes pride itself on leaders without college/seminary…. I have had more than once people make “negative comments”, typically obliquely, on my advanced education. A typical put down is to quote 1Corinthians 3:19, “ For the wisdom of man is foolishness to God”
Yet, how many times have we heard about how smart p, so and so preacher is, and all the “honorary Ph.D” that are thrown around, or, in the case of “Ravi”, just plan lie about their education credentials… Again, just another exam0le of preacher boys playing to both ways.. the then again, remember, I am just one of those compromised, tained secular humanists..
They don’t think about those things. They think about controlling those young minds and maintaining that control. Not that this works as well as they think it does, because I don’t think it does. But they believe, like the New Calvinists, the the younger you bring them in, the more malleable and willing to be controlled by the powers that be.
Several years ago before my family and I escaped from the clutches of the local SGM church I was invited to a small group led by the lead Pastor. Looking back we spent more time reading several books and discussing them than we did reading the Bible. A couple weeks ago I went to their website and social media and every one of those men that were in that group are now leaders in some fashion. Assistant pastor, head of this ministry or that ministry. And here I am attending a different church, security team volunteer and happy. Thank God I left…
That possibility occurred to me, too. It seems dangerous — it guarantees a kind of in-breeding in terms of thinking. Group-think can be great if the group’s thinking is flawless, but in the real world, it helps to have access to outside points of view. A movement that is hermetically protected from all influences except those from within itself is IMO likely to eventually become cult-like.
—
Epistemic humility is adaptive; it makes it easier to detect that one is heading in a bad direction. But in organizations or movements that define themselves in terms of the truth of specific propositional systems, it runs into the countervailing need of the group to maintain its boundaries in order to preserve its identity. I don’t know how to reconcile these.
I’ve known some of these guys. They can’t see outside of their little boxes until they get away from the group. And then it takes years. I know someone who still can’t see that what he thinks might be dangerous for him, and I suspect it’s because of being raised in PDI. It’s all absolutes with God’s blessing, in their minds.
The idea that God will bless it because you want it is a really troubling philosophy, but it’s so common in evangelicalism. SGM has a charismatic bent, and prosperity gospel has quite a bit of influence there. But I even think the New Calvinists are influenced by prosperity gospel, through their belief that they are elect and they know they are elect and they know who isn’t. But I’m not sure it’s due to theology, but to mental illnesses on the part of some leaders, particularly narcissism. We’ve definitely seen popular leaders just go completely off the rails when people finally decide they don’t want to follow them anymore.
I’ve been wondering what the financial state of SGM and their churches have been. Any ideas?
And some not-so-popular leaders have the same issue (just go completely off the rails when people finally decide they don’t want to follow them anymore).
“Just like The Secret, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”
So why are they always trying to Prove to themselves that That they are Elect and you’re Not?
By having the More Utterly Correct, Perfectly Parsed, Totally REFORMED Theology than the other guy?
(Once it was “Material Blessings”, i.e. getting Filthy Stinking RICH was THE Proof of Election. The Prosperity Gospel is but an echo of this; THEOLOGICAL Correctness is just the new currency.)
That’s what happens when you view Reality entirely through the lens of Power Struggle – Who Holds the Whip and Who Feels the Whip.
HOLY NINCOMPPOP SYNDROME, where the more stupid/ignorant/foolish you are, the more Godly you must be.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
🙂
When the guy talking says something about Christianity being in stark contrast to the culture, he actually means “their brand of Christianity”. The Taliban believes the same thing, that they are in stark contrast to the culture. Little difference in the pride of how each group believes they are the correct ones in this world.
I think the movement just attracts those type of guys. They might move onto a new fad, but they will still be like that. Those same guys are the ones always gatekeeping SF&F.
Abuse cover-ups and nepotism aside, SGM and other churches have made the mistake of putting “novices” into leadership roles. Sending a 20-something off to management training and calling it a “pastors college” worked for a season, but it is not a substitute for entrusting the flock to older, proven men. The problem is, of course, that real leaders will not always tow the company line.
The young should be cherished and looked to as court jesters, and not taught a party line by NLP. The nonsense here is just recreating the “minor seminary” system. Even if it doesn’t “formally” involve under 16s or anyone concretely being “in bed”. (Do as you would not be done by the police.) So-called “churches” are trial balloons: where they lead, commerce and public administration will surely follow.
Those appear to be their “real” shots – the supremacist caressing his beard, the dolly biddy, obliging littluns producing canonical drawings, a redhead with gravitas (she should have put her foot down), always too much backlighting (apotheosis), an artful piece of Greek which could have been imported from anywhere / twisted into anything and was doubtless meant to subliminally tell us something. The warning shot over the bows I mean disclaimer in the slogan, “get a grip on their own lives” means “don’t tell us we didn’t warn you we will throw you under the bus if we consider you let down what we see as our image”, and to falsely lull the public into thinking “phew they actually aren’t telling these people to keep a grip over OUR lives”.
Another thing, my Bible says the fivefold just like the 9 fold and the 55 fold are for everybody and not just an inner elite. In other words, we are to be co-pastoring each other, co-pastoring the pastors, joining in teaching (not as bosses), noticing how Scripture applies, sharing bright insights into what apostling and evangelising really mean and their place; we each can play several parts informally and learn by bucketloads from each other. A large and rotating proportion can later crystallise some of their activities “for a season” or longer.
We certainly do need the young joining in co-pastoring us while they are still imaginative and empathetic, and as long as they haven’t been brainwashed first. I’ve known grim, out-of-it oldies put so many spanners in the mutual works. But the 30 y o rookie elders look to them as models and not to mavericks at the back of the congregation like me. At 65 (and single) I would willingly be part of a bunch helping a 19 year old co-lead. But what is the SGM concept of “leadership”?
“God made me be in this situation (with you) for my ‘conversion’ because He thinks I am stupid” (subtext: we are even more in need of conversion and even more stupid)
I found this article about the Catholic Church exactly in line with what this blog is about:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/fidelity-oaths-spark-fear-return-theological-silencing
A lot of what I meant by college was somewhere where you aren’t as much under the influence of your parents or outside the bubble you may have grown up in. Typically when one goes away to college that happens and they have more time and space to think for themselves.
With Mahaney one of his issues is that he was always in top leadership. Had Mahaney gone to college and was under a professor where other people’s opinions mattered as much as Mahaney’s it might have given Mahaney a different perspective.
Josh Harris was always in the bubble. First with his parents and then later living with Mahaney etc.
It seems to have disappeared from the church first.
“Many churches have considered all the information available to them and made the choice to leave the Sovereign Grace Denomination.” (Todd)
SGC is done … it just hasn’t quit yet.
A perfect example of a New Calvinist darling who should have never entered the ministry. The new reformation is replete with such leaders. It’s a dirty shame that the American church has had to deal with these characters. New Calvinism is a bubble – it will break someday and leave tens of thousands of followers in despair and disillusionment.
“Recruiting Grade Schoolers!”
Whew! This is the last bunch you want messing with your children!
Yes.
And many will convert to fundamental atheism.
Too bad they didn’t hear much about Jesus in the New Calvinist churches they attended.
I heard a lot of about Jesus at Soverign Grace Church. I was there for almost 25 years. The problem wasn’t so much not talking about Jesus, but putting him on the back burner and making man-made rules more important. SGM churches said that God was sovereign, but practice proved from them that He was Not. SGM churches said the God showed tremendous grace, but practice proved that grace was one of the avenues rarely provided to people that needed it.
What was always funny to me was CJ Mahaney writing his book on Humility. That was like asking Hitler to write books on racial inclusion.
Glad I’m gone. Fallout in my life/family still being addressed by the Lord. Jesus will judge all of them accordingly.
Which, of course, is not what real-deal Christians do. Jesus is always on the front burner in the Body of Christ! The New Calvinists as a group, and odd-balls like SGC, emphasize doctrinal propositions ‘about’ grace rather than a direct experience ‘of’ Grace, an encounter with the living Christ.
As a former kid genius who’s online way too much, this sounds like the Disciples of Calvin are too busy living in their frontal lobes to have much connection with “Meatspace”. It’s an occupational hazard for intellectual types regardless of any actual intellect. Or anyone (like artist types) who spend a lot of time touring their mental landscape.
And Max, I’ve seen “encounters with the living Christ” also used as a smackdown by the Holy Nincompoop types who are so into Experience that their brains fell out. Just as out-of-balance as the NecoCal Thrologians with their Doctrinal Propositions and Institutes and letter-by-letter parsing, but in the opposite direction.
Staying just as On-Fire Fundamentalist as they were for Calvin, just transferred to another belief system.
But he was Highborn Heir to the Throne/Pulpit of House Harris, so he really didn’t have a choice.
Replaced by what they claim is the Holy Spirit, their direct speed-dial line to God.
And since “The Wisdom of God is Foolishness to Man (1 Cor 1:25)” and “God’s Ways are Far Above Our Ways (Isaiah 55:8)” the more Foolish you are the more Holy a Christian you must be.
Cue “God Hath Revealed Unto Me” and “Can You Top This?”
“Give me your children for five years and I will make them mine. You will pass away, but they will remain Mine.”
— Adolf Hitler, cult leader
“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
— Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (alias Lenin), cult leader
Yeah, I’ve known some of those characters … but my own personal experience of faith in Christ is not open to the arguments of others.
Same here.
My own experience (I believe in the supernatural presence of Jesus of Nazareth) is mine alone and I care not what others say or don’t say about it.
Josh Harris was and still is a good communicator/seller etc. Thus the secular company he now works for.
One doesn’t really know how much of what he taught he really believed vs. being a good communicator. With Harris being born into the faith etc. one doesn’t know if he really believed it or not.
C.J. Mahaney on the other hand I think was a good actor. Being one that was around during the TAG days I think Mahaney was originally sincere but then became more and more arrogant. It didn’t help that Mahaney was always either one of two top leaders (along with Larry Tomczak) or the top leader (after he forced Larry out).
Just as literally literalist
Yes, a good example of the point I have made before. A man can be effective in the “ministry” if he has a touch of charisma, a working knowledge of the Bible, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. We hear it over and over after the pretty-boys fall from grace: “Boy, he could sure preach!”
He wrote his book on humility after he became arrogant. Yep, a good actor.
Hard to tell these days since they haven’t posted their financial statement in years. After CLC left Sovereign Grace their reserves and income came way
Looks like CLC reached a deal with Sovereign Grace on SG’s share of CLC’s building.
https://www.covlife.org/covenant-life-church-and-sovereign-grace-churches-reach-agreement-on-maryla
Sale price out of future rents. Will be interesting to see who rents the space.
Regarding Sovereign Grace selling their portion of the CLC building what I find interesting is:
– Sale Price: $525,000
This is what SG paid for their portion of the CLC building according to an old SG financial statement:
– 2002 Price: $1,890,190
According to the same financial statement if SG forced the sale, CLC would have to have paid SG:
– “lesser of 45% of estimated fair market value of the premises or the original payment adjusted yearly by the annual change in Consumer Price Index.”
If CLC forced the sale the 45% increases to 85%.
I am not sure how they came to the sale price of $525K but quite a drop from what SG originally paid for their portion. It is hard to believe the fair market value is only around $525 K. Also interesting that SG is being paid as a “share of future rental income.”
Then again with COVID-19 I am sure the market is weak for office type space. Still quite a large drop in value from 2002.
Maybe this tells a story of two financially tight organizations: CLC & Sovereign Grace?
I did find this information on Sovereign Grace financials:
https://www.ecfa.org/MemberProfile.aspx?ID=40055
I am guessing that part of the $3.3M in assets is their $1.9M portion of the CLC Building now worth $525K.
The above link shows revenue slightly more than expenses.
With Mahaney and others being near retirement I doubt they really care if SG goes on that much longer. They just want to milk a few more years out before they retire.
I knew there was something I wanted to say here…
Recruiting kids is not a new thing. Back before Vatican II, there were “minor seminaries,” which were high schools set up for boys who had expressed a priestly vocation (or otherwise). Minor seminaries were usually day schools. Nowadays, there are very few minor seminaries, and it appears from a Google search that they are either run by very, very conservative groups that are Catholic *or* by various groups of sedevacantists (people who believe the papal chair is empty) to grow their own schismatic priesthoods.
One of my friends was on the fast track to a minor seminary when changes to the Catholic church hit at the beginning of the 1970s. He ended up going to a regular Catholic high school. Interestingly, his brother, after a couple of decades as an engineer, went to regular seminary and was ordained as a priest last summer. He’s in his later 50s.
Whoa Red Flags going up everywhere after listening to that one minute clip! So my assessment! You have a group of men who gathered together to protect other leaders in their organization who severely sexually abused children and pouring severe emotional abuse on the families sweeping it under the rug and now they are talking about watching our children as young as grade school in order to pick and essentially groom them for their ministry!!!! Am I the only one seeing how sick this is how disturbing it is???
It wasn’t just the Catholic church. The Anglican church (anglo-catholic wing) had something similar (e.g., Kelham which took students at age 14). Note that in the past this was a means of bright boys from the working class to receive a good education instead of automatically being tracked to follow in their fathers’ footsteps.
How about maybe your “family of churches” (mob run franchises) is as screwed up as a football bat with a faulty foundation and a long and well documented trail of destruction?
They created the entire mess and no amount of name changing will fix it. The web won’t let you hide from it, thankfully.
(I spent 20 years in their franchises before waking up.)
Steve240,
Disappearing money and churches that pretend to be the extreme opposite to sharks are the new abnormal. There was a similar case in Dublin very recently (the fraction recouped was even smaller). Accountancy and accountability are being turned into the opposite before our eyes. In my day, my “movement” actually had to make an effort at being underhand!
Reading back over the Emerson police transcript, and reading the reference in this post and comments about ‘men of proven character,’ I remembered well the many times I heard Emerson use that phrase. ‘ Men of proven character.’ Takeaway: Let men and women prove their character to YOU. Don’t take someone else’s word for it. Many of those referred to as ‘men of proven character’ from the pulpit ended up proving that their character was not the kind we thought they were talking about.
So these kidnappers want to poison the children with Kuhlmann-Aid like they poisoned Dan Barker (who is still effectively a Kuhlmannist).
Yep, they take a lickin’ and keep on milkin’.
In the words of the porphet Steve Miler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkcrndYye60
And in the process, groom them for Other Things (nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean know what I mean…)
HUMBLY, of course.
(And we all know the Koine Greek for “Actor”, don’t we?)
Believers are called into the ministry, not groomed into it. This is sort of like pentecostals teaching their kids how to speak in tongues. And, as you allude, this is the last group you want watching your kids!
ishy,
Neither Mahoney or Prater graduated from a college.
HONORARY Doctorates from other MenaGAWD?
Why don’t they just give themselves Doctorates like Idi Amin proclaiming himself one?
This is just the musings of an old lady, so if you find good in it keep it and if not, well, toss it. But here is what I am starting seriously to wonder re the pandemic, churches, schools, governments, and families. (For starters. Add institutions you think of.)
What if God Almighty is seriously ticked off at how we are “doing” those institutions and has decided to stop us dead (no pun intended) in our tracks? Maybe He sent the virus, maybe it is just part of the fallen world and He is using it, but either way it could be His current tool.
Maybe He just does not want us making a market of salvation. Maybe He doesn’t want churches who do not lead anyone to saving faith but just put them through rites and rituals and declare them saved. Maybe He doesn’t want churches who focus on keeping all us sinners happy and mentally adjusted and never lonely or offended. Maybe He wants churches that focus on telling us ALL we are sinners, not afraid to define sin, and leading us to salvation. WITHOUT human gimmicks like the right music, lighting, degrees and pedigrees, without 501(c)3 membership.
Maybe He doesn’t like for people to make babies that won’t ever know an intact mother/father family. Maybe He doesn’t like for people to make babies but not let them be born. Maybe He doesn’t like for “perfect” two parent (opposite sex) families, even in the parsonage, to make babies and ship them off for others to raise. Maybe He wants parent to parent.
Maybe He doesn’t like what is being taught in the schools, and has decided to use this virus to get a whole lot of kids away from a whole lot of teachers, and to literally muzzle those teachers.
Maybe He is not all that happy with how governments around the world are functioning and is using the virus to sicken some leaders, or to reduce funding by destroying their economies.
Maybe He is not happy with our obsession with careers and with how we manage our money, so He has put our toys away for a while.
Maybe. Maybe not. I also realize sometimes He chooses not to intervene and “stuff” happens but He walks with us through that stuff. He’s a good God and His mercies ARE new every morning.
But lately I am wanting more and more not just for pandemic to end (don’t we all!) but for us to use it to sift out the weevils we have allowed to grow in the flour of our lives.
I’m realizing the last thing we need is for things to go back to the way they were pre pandemic. So I am trying to see what need changing in my own life, and begin making those changes or preparing to make them when the pandemic eases and I can.
But I seriously hope I will no longer be willing to get caught up in the agendas of those with a wallet in the game of life, and more nearly follow my Savior.
linda,
Linda, there is no doubt that America has invited the judgment of God for several years. If not now, when?
You have taken a pandemic pause to reflect on personal, corporate, and national sins. We all should. These are days for believers to repent and change. “If” my people … “Then” will I.
IMO, your musing is not frivolous and harebrained, but sober and rational. From an old man to an old lady, I’ve been thinking along similar lines for some time now.
This is a good book on the Sovereign Grace history:
https://www.amazon.com/Uriah-Syndrome-Misuse-Authority-Church/dp/1644718731
This person was involved in Sovereign Grace in the early TAG days that became Gathering of Believers then CLC where Sovereign Grace was created.
Some quite interesting insight.
Respectfully, Sovereign Grace Pastor’s College is this religious cults major brainwashing tool and bible weapon of entrapment stronghold mechanism. It is sheer fantasy to think otherwise. Theses are the devils pones. Buyer beware. Those who don’t learn from the past are forced to repeat it…They have abused the Bible and thrown away the Son. Bad co h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZEljJzStw ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZEljJzStw mpany till the day they die? The weapon of their warfare is deception. Deserters to the cause of Christ. Again. Beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZEljJzStw
Simply put, they have been thunderstruck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhg9bYNLvOg
SGC Church leaders have been caught in immoral behavior and the cover-up of physical, sexual, spiritual, and psychological abuse–authoritarian leaders who insist on maintaining control over their church flocks while wreaking havoc and causing profound emotional, spiritual, and psychological stress, including the need for psychiatric hospitalization, while some even succumb to suicide. Their Congregations riddled with broken relationships, divided families, separation, divorce, and children who now reject God or anything having to do with church. Even long standing pastors loosing their faith. Such a battle rages in these cult churches and has for some forty years. Beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXHMTuoK060
Mize well jump…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgLIKOs850
Is that anything like the Ibathene monster from Hargreave’s Arduin Grimoire?
“Will continue fighting 1-20 turns after being killed because it’s too stupid to realize it’s dead.”
Indeed, this is characteristic of the last chapter of failed ministers and ministries. Church history is littered with glitters of gold which fizzled out.
“In this final “shaking” all that is impermanent will be removed, that is, everything that is merely “made”, and only the unshakeable things will remain” (Hebrews 12:27 Phillips)
You’ll notice that 4 of these students are from SGCL, which means they’re SBTS students. That is how SGC has filled their classes for the PC since it was rebooted in Louisville.