Hubble Views Edge of Stellar Blast: NASA
“This Hubble Space Telescope image depicts a small section of the Cygnus supernova blast wave, the result of the “death” of a star 20 times more massive than our Sun 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Light from this supernova takes around 2,400 years to reach Earth.”
Man is the only predator who hunts his own.” ― Kenneth Eade, Unwanted
When I first started this blog, I never imagined what I would be encountering. I thought I would find a few pastors who molested or covered up molestation in the church. I quickly learned that the work I had chosen would be far more than I, or many others, could have imagined. I was startled at the number of church leaders and pastors were involved in sex abuse. At first, I thought many of these incidents would be tawdry affairs. Yes, there were many of those. But there was much, much more. I became shocked at my ignorance.
For example, I could have never imagined that a Christian college president would be accused of watching his wife have sex with a pool boy. Yet I wrote a post documenting what appears to be a credible accusation that this unimaginable act occurred. That one took my breath away. Little did I know that I might need to get a supply of oxygen for this next credible accusation. It appears that I am living a most boring life compared to that of the Falwells.
Becki Falwell accused of predatory behavior
Politico posted: She was the aggressor’: Former Liberty student alleges sexual encounter with Becki Falwell It was subtitled: A former student at the evangelical university opens up about a 2008 incident with the wife of the school’s president. (Take a deep breath, Dee, and soldier on.)
A former Liberty University student says Becki Falwell, the wife of the university’s then-President Jerry Falwell Jr., jumped into bed with him and performed oral sex on him while he stayed over at the Falwell home after a band practice with her eldest son in 2008.
The student was 22 at the time of the encounter, near the start of Liberty’s fall semester. He said she initiated the act, and he went along with it. But despite his rejection of further advances, he said, Falwell continued pursuing him, offering him gifts and engaging in banter through Facebook messages.
The student claimed she was the aggressor and provided Politico with emails and texts that she had allegedly written. Go to Politico to see a number of these. In one of them she said:
Becki Falwell wrote in a message sent in September 2008. “You don’t want to cover up those killer eyes of yours and you know the bandana drives me wild … 🙂”
The student later allegedly told her that he didn’t want a romantic relationship with her. Becki replied:
“Maybe time will heal whatever wounds that I have caused and your Christian heart will allow you to forgive me.”
The Daily Beast chimed in: Former Liberty University Student Alleges Sexual Encounter With Becki Falwell: Report
A fellow bandmate, also unnamed, said the former student described the encounter to him within a month of its occurrence. The bandmate also said Becki Falwell would flirt with the student during band practices while her son was present.
Becki was apparently an employee of the school which meant she violated LU school policies. However, it has become apparent to me that the Falwells had their own set of policies. The Falwells respond to these allegations:
Becki and Jerry Falwell Jr. said in a statement to Politico: “It is unfortunate that the coverage of our departure has turned into a frenzy of false and fantastic claims about us. These false and mean spirited lies have hurt us and our family greatly and we will respond fully with the truth at an appropriate time.”
In a statement to Politico, Liberty University vice president Scott Lamb stressed the school’s “policies against employees having sexual relationships with students, as well as having other inappropriate relationships outside of marriage, whether consensual or not. Becki Falwell was an employee in 2008 and such policies would have fully applied to her as spouse of the then-university Chancellor and President.
The student claims he still suffers from depression. If he is reading this, please know that I am so sorry about what happened to you. It is not your fault and you are brave for coming forward.
he suffers guilt and depression as a result of the encounter, which made him question his faith, and previously did not want to make his account public so as not to cause the Falwells and Liberty harm.
Salon chimed in with an article looking at patriarchal objectification.
How the religious right’s purity culture enables predatory behavior: It was subtitled: Underneath the salacious headlines about Falwell’s scandals is a system of patriarchal objectification. Ashlie Stevens, the author, grew up in the SBC and was exposed to the purity culture. Recently, I spoke with one person who has left her SBC church due to the prevalent patriarchal milieu. According to Stevens. She is referencing the behavior of a number of stars who embraced the purity culture but walked away.
It’s perhaps one of the clearest illustrations of how the purity culture that is bolstered by and ingrained in contemporary evangelical circles enables predatory sexual behavior, often without consequences.
I grew up attending Southern Baptist churches during the mid-2000s, when purity had become a pop culture buzzword after the Jonas Brothers donned rings to symbolize their commitment to abstinence before marriage. Miley Cyrus, Jordin Sparks, Selena Gomez, and Demi Lovato all followed suit, adding a little glimmer to their sugar-coated public personas.
Eventually, most of the stars quietly took off their rings as they began the process of aging out of their totally wholesome images (Sparks, however, publicly recommitted to abstinence before marriage after breaking up with pop star boyfriend Jason Derulo). But in my evangelical church, purity wasn’t something you could simply shed.
This next statement is worth reading carefully. Think about a woman you may know who has been assaulted as you read this.
There were many more — an alabaster bottle that was shattered after being roughly handled, roses with the petals torn off, a stick of gum that becomes undesirable after a single use, a bicycle that had been stolen and damaged rendering it “less fun” for the rightful owner to ride — but the message was always the same: as a woman, before sex, you were pristine, but afterwards you were essentially worthless.
But I have listened to and cried with Christian women who didn’t even know how to proceed after they were assaulted. They were swallowed by feelings of grief and guilt, but also consumed by that lingering fear that they had been left in a state that was eternally unlovable. After all, we were taught that we were the sticks of chewing gum; it didn’t matter who chewed it, we were worthless after that first bite.
When such damaging patriarchal objectification is so deeply ingrained in the teachings of the evangelical church, it makes sense that Jerry Falwell Jr. wouldn’t see an issue with spreading a compromising image of one of the students at the university where he teaches. It makes sense that he would vocally support a president who has been accused of rape, sexual harassment and brags about his ability to grab women by the pussy.
She discusses how Falwell attempted to throw his wife under the bus. However, it now appears Falwell has his own baggage.
positioned his wife as the sinner caught up in an affair that was tearing the family apart, while he attempted to reconcile the situation.
So, are the Falwells predators?
I believe it is highly likely to be so. That means there may be others who have yet to come forward. How many students and employees have been sexually propositioned? For those who are reading this post who are in the category of being molested having been molested, sexually harassed, or objectified, I am so sorry for the pain you have endured. I believe that you have the right to ask for compensation if you have obtained or wish to find supportive counseling and intervention. If I can be of assistance in helping you to find that help, please contact me
In the meantime, what should Liberty Univesity do?
Liberty University announces that there will be an investigation into Falwell’s tenure.
Associated Press announced: Liberty announces investigation into Falwell’s tenure.
In a statement, the board said it had retained an outside firm to investigate “all facets” of the school’s operations under Falwell, and that it was “committed to learning the consequences that have flowed from a lack of spiritual stewardship by our former president.”
Forbes chimed in: Liberty University Announces ‘Thorough’ Investigation Into Falwell’s Presidency
Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has hired one of the world’s leading forensic firms to conduct the “thorough” investigation, according to a Monday statement.
The investigation will delve into “financial, real estate and legal matters,” the school explains.
Forbes stated that LU defended its action in allowing Falwell to resign.
The university defended not asking for a resignation from Falwell, who has sparked controversy since taking over as president in 2007, before last week.
“Some may say that all the signs were there for a long time … It’s certainly fair to say that there were questionable comments made, worrying behavior and inappropriate social media posts” said Liberty, continuing: “but all the signs were not there until the start of last week.”
Final thoughts:
The scope of an investigation into Falwells’ tenure, along with the actions of his wife, Becki, appears to be breathtaking. I have yet to discuss the concerning financial actions on the part of the Falwells. It would take a few weeks of posts to unravel those alleged problems.
It is vital that LU hire a third-party, independent group to conduct this investigation. It should have investigators who can handle the sexual abuse allegations as well as financial concerns. If they make the mistake of hiring a group that has cozy ties to LU, Falwell, etc. it will be a disaster.
I also predict the onslaught of lawsuits in these matters. In my opinion, the board didn’t do their job. Just like many pastors pick *yes men* to serve as elders, I am concerned that the board may be made up of yes men.
I, along with many others, are shocked that Christian leaders could be involved in what has been alleged. Could this be the first alleged husband and wife predatory team at the helm of a major Christian University?
Here is the statement that makes me suspicious. The Falwells claim (quoted above):
“we will respond fully with the truth at an appropriate time.”
One can always respond with the truth immediately. What’s their problem? I seem to remember a similar statement when Bill O’Reilly was dismissed from Fox News after allegations of sexual misconduct. I remember him saying that he would prove he is innocent. He has a lot of money and years have passed with no proof offered. I predict the same will happen with the Falwells. They will take their money and crawl into a luxurious hole. I bet we will hear nothing about the so-called *truth.*
“It is vital that LU hire a third-party, independent group to conduct this investigation.“
And include the trustees and other power brokers etc.
1
This is so sordid but kind of encouraging as the “breathtaking scope” of the investigation seems to indicate.
I really appreciated the section on Patriarchy, as one of our daughters encountered a molester in the guise of an Elder of one of those type of churches. The inference that one was ruined after rape is so destructive. My daughter’s abuse was in fact at a North American Baptist church but the set up and teachings are quite similar to those described at LU.
I love your constant praise and encouragement to the victims.
I was molested as a child in a medical setting; I know the
Thank you again for all your work and for your strong determination to stay the course and wade through the cesspool repeatedly to find the truth.
“ “Some may say that all the signs were there for a long time … It’s certainly fair to say that there were questionable comments made, worrying behavior and inappropriate social media posts” said Liberty, continuing: “but all the signs were not there until the start of last week.””
It can be argued that this amounts to we saw some smoke, but even as a body with fiduciary responsibilities, we punted (with whatever financial and other perks came with that) on proactive measures of oversight until it reached prairie fire levels, no?
I believe this investigation is a smoke screen (i.e, sham) to try and show people how committed the board is to discovering where they went wrong, when the real question should be, ‘when did you know, and why wasn’t anything done’?
This will be the focus of controlling the narrative. The BOT will work to control how they are perceived. They want people to think they were just caught by surprise by all of Falwell’s antics, and were somehow unprepared to deal with the onslaught of them. This is not true. Falwell has left a trail of questionable behavior for YEARS that any armchair detective could look up. They can’t feign innocence, but they will try.
The goal of the ‘independent’ investigation is to clear the board, period. They will take the appropriate amount of slaps on the wrist and move on, just like Cedarville.
Could be, especially if transparency isn’t a part of this: “Liberty University did not immediately respond to Forbes’s questions about the specifics of the investigation or its potential consequences.“ How many times have we seen the owners that who let the failures to go unchecked be allowed to head the investigation?
Also, how often has that process look awfully like damage control towards narrative control, as was said? Of course, the familiar pattern faces the reality of decades with a university with scores of staff, faculty, and students. That combined with the national spotlight evidently sought by the “former president” (as they put it) may lend itself to more sunlight than usual. Either way, people have the opportunity to do the right thing, NDA or no.
To wit, the hostel ownership news came out in 2017, and the Reuters and Politico articles raising further questions about nepotism and cronyism in real estate and business dealings were a year or so ago
I believe both of the Falwells are predators and I believe the pool boy’s and the student’s story over theirs.
Sadly, I think so, too. I knew Junior would be a bad choice way before he was ever made President. I know a lot of other students and alumni thought so, too. That a board couldn’t see that is pretty ridiculous.
Seeing as Jr was installed the day after his father’s death I’m wondering how much input the board had into the decision of jr as prez
Thank you, Dee, for including the source links in your opening posts.
I know some comments have already made excellent points on your opening post, and that there will be many more equally thoughtful comments.
I was struck by something in the linked AP News article that might be another part of the whitewashing process:
As I am less familiar with some of the details of Christian universities, perhaps someone might have ideas on whether the post the board is considering establishing A) will actually happen, and / or B) is (somehow) a “carrot”, and / or C) might be used to cover-up more abuses, and / or D) will subtly teach university leaders how to keep their abuses under the radar.
I continue to believe JFJr’s troubles may only be beginning. If he self dealt LU assets to his friends or relatives, he has breached his fiduciary duty and the board has breached their duty of care over the substantial assets of the non-profit. Anyone with standing should sue, immediately. Additionally, the IRS and state of Virginia should begin to DO THEIR JOB!!
My dad and I had a conversation about that and thought that it could be part of Falwell Sr’s contract that Junior become president after him. When I was a student, Senior was very adamant that Jonathan would pastor Thomas Road and Junior would take over the school. Jonathan seemed like a decent guy, but Junior always came across as an immature party boy, despite his education.
ishy,
However, in the way the school should be set up, the board would still probably have the power to remove him even if he was installed some other way. Maybe some of our legal experts can weigh in on that.
From their recent comments, it sounded like they had no intention of ever removing him. If the investigation is truly independent, I wonder if it will reveal favors to the board or other things that kept the board from doing their jobs properly.
I’m fairly certain there would have been a way to remove him IF the board wanted to do it. I don’t think you can lock up a charitable institution such that people can’t be removed from their positions.
That said, your second paragraph gets to the nut of the matter. Will the board hire someone independent enough to do the deep dive that is necessary? Because I’m thinking that there’s so much dirt and that board is nowhere near “independent” to do that kind of self-examination.
Liberty U has a not inconsiderable endowment (listed by Google as $1.59 billion). It’s nowhere near Stanford ($27 bn) or my alma mater ($30 bn), but for a private religious university, it is nothing to sneeze at. Texas Christian University’s endowment is $1.71 bn; Southern Methodist is at $1.66 bn and Baylor U is $1.3 bn. Notre Dame tops the list of heavily endowed religious universities at $8.5 bn.
Knowing that, I suspect the board was willing to look the other way because Jr was a really good fundraiser. And, really, that’s always been my understanding of a university president. Not that they are a figurehead, but that they’re hired to not just run the university but to be the face of the university to raise money so the university continues to exist. Which is probably why Master’s University has not really wanted to replace John MacArthur as the face of Master’s because his presence gets people to give money.
Anyway, those are just some thoughts.
JDV,
But, LU sure as heck, does not “punt” when there is alittle smoke coming from a non-conected, poor student…. From what we can learn from many, many accounts, is that the LU administration will hammer the student peons, while letting the “connected students” get away with allot…
It is this, and the poor parents that struggle to pay for a LU education, genuinely believing the pious, LU party line, that makes me want Vomit..
Anna,
Exactly..
Oh, by the way, the Cygnus picture at the top of this post is a small, small portion of the Cygnus Loop, a supernova nebula remnant about ~1,800 light years away. The whole loop, which is an emission nebula, is 30 light years across. It is believed the star which created the nebula exploded ~21,000 years ago. The actual supernova remnant has not been found but they are searching for it diligently. Theoretically, the progenitor star should have left behind a neutron star or pulsar based on what is believed to be the progenitor’s 10-15 sun masses at the time of the supernova.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_Loop
Oh, and here’s something else to think about regarding supernovas. It is believed that Betelgeuse, a red giant in the constellation Orion, most famously in the news lately because it dimmed considerably at the end of last year (has partially recovered), is eventually going to be a supernova. However, “eventually” could mean as long as 100,000 years. Betelgeuse is said to be 10 million years old (it’s a baby compared to the Sun at 4.5 billion years). But if you think about it, 100,000 years is only one percent of Betelgeuse’s life span. That’s a looooong time.
But when the end comes for Betelgeuse, it will be *quick*, unbelievably so, compared to its lifetime. Stars can only fuse elements up to a certain point before it takes more energy to fuse than comes out of the reaction. And this is important. A star has to keep generating energy to keep its layers from collapsing on it due to gravitational pressure (called hydrostatic equilibrium). Once the star starts fusing iron from silicon via nickel, the star will collapse because there’s no energy pushing back against gravitation. And then the star explodes.
My one bucket list item that I wish would happen in my lifetime is a naked-eye supernova in our galaxy. It doesn’t have to be Betelgeuse. It could be another star. Yeah, I know there was SN1987A in the Large Magellanic Cloud, but it was relatively dim and not visible from the Northern Hemisphere. (Oh but my then-boyfriend and I really did talk about going to South America to see it, but I was in law school, so nope…) I want to walk outside some night and see a beautiful star casting a shadow. (For the record, astronomers have researched and there are no stars within distance of our Sun that would be dangerous if they became a supernova. We have boring stars around us.)
From Dee’s original post:
Becki Falwell accused of predatory behavior
It looks like LU is a “equal opportunity to ABUSE institution ”!
I confess to being a bit befuddled about the nature of the Jerry/Becki relationship.
Was this an open marriage?
“I am concerned that the board may be made up of yes men”
Junior would not have survived as long as he did, given his poor Christian character, if he was not surrounded by trustees who were acquiescent to the bad boy. They share responsibility for this scandal and should leave LU in the hands of others who will lift up the name of Christ above the next LU President.
The investigation will not be truly “independent” if it is paid for by LU, with the trustees interacting with the investigating party.
Presumably the report to be presented to the Board by the investigators the Board has retained will be the property of the Board.
Or perhaps they have pledged to promptly release the report, unredacted, regardless of what it discloses?
It falls somewhere under the major heading of Total Depravity.
If I were the parent of an LU student or a donor to the university, I would be wondering “Uhhhh, I assumed LU leaders were already living out the Christian walk, or wouldn’t have been appointed in any leadership role at the university.” Making a big deal about putting a “spiritual coach” on staff might backfire on them … these folks are supposed to be spiritual already!
Max,
🙂
I not sure he even has any character, poor or otherwise.
Orion has won his footrace with the Sun at dawn…
That and the old timid standby refrain / rationale for not doing anything:
“…Can’t come down too hard on Junior, cuz’… I’m a sinner too…”
In two words: MONEY TALKS.
“Everybody’s got his price, or a guy like me couldn’t exist.”
— Howard Hughes
“And Junior cuts me in on some of the take.”
COUGAR ATTACK!
Sometimes I wonder how that would fly at a secular criminal trial.
I wouldn’t bet a wooden nickel that he’s even a Christian. He is a character, though.
I believe the “pool boy “.
Maybe Paige Patterson should hang her on one of his walls???
I find it outrageous that the wife of a college presidant cannot spell “banana”.
ishy,
“From their recent comments, it sounded like they had no intention of ever removing him. If the investigation is truly independent, I wonder if it will reveal favors to the board or other things that kept the board from doing their jobs properly.”
+++++++++++++
…like, financial rewards / bonuses if they don’t interfere with Jerry Falwell Jr.’s position as president of the university.
all couched in spiritual christiany language, like “honor”, “respect”, “touch not God’s anointed”…
why should any on the Board keep their jobs?
do any of them have the character and integrity to recognize their abysmal failures that will have enormous & far-reaching consequences, and to forfeit their positions with deep apologies?
ha… i really don’t think so.
the reason i really don’t think so is that i have never seen a christian leader not look our for himself and herself above all else. i have never seen a christian leader do what is right when it will cost them.
(beyond making a show of a silly and trivial thing that could be construed as a modicum of personal cost, and using it for PR and burnishing a heroic image for themselves.)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Reminds me of this:
https://www.duffelblog.com/2019/03/green-beret-fights-off-cougar-at-local-bar/
Yes!
“You shall know them by their fruit.” What fruit in Junior’s life would indicate that?
Living a life beyond reproach? Nah, he never did that.
Son of a preacher? Nah, that won’t cover it.
President of a Christian college? Nah, that doesn’t mean anything.
Ability to quote Bible verses? Nah, the devil does that.
More bad fruit than good fruit in this basket, folks.
This is a powerful article from a former student of LU.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/jerry-falwell-liberty.html
Neither did Hybel’s board … or MacDonald’s board … or Driscoll’s board for years. They were all in this thing together ’til the bitter end.
Y’know what Max?
I continue to be amazed by how people both inside and outside of the Church forget Satan quoted Bible verses.
Perhaps if people remembered that ANYONE can (mis)quote Bible verses, there would be fewer wolves in the Church.
Demons masquerading as angels of light quote Bible verses in church every Sunday.
“Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)
Churchgoers need to pray for a new measure of discernment. The enemy of the Cross is working overtime these days.
Amen to that!
🙂
Makes me think that Liberty University is run just like a Scorsese mob flick.
And “discernment” does NOT mean Seeing DEMONS in every closet and smelling out Satan’s WITCHES and LIBRULS under every bed.
Because THAT’s what it means in today’s Christianese.
Wondering Eagle’s regular troll quotes barrages of Verses on full-auto like a Calvary Chapelite’s “Bible Bullets”.
And in Volume 12 of that dumpster fire called Left Behind, Jenkins was apparently so terrified of “putting words in Jesus’ mouth” that most ALL Christ’s dialogue is just reciting Bible passages. Eru Iluvatar Himself as MP3 playback of King Jimmy Chapters-and-Verses. You’d think Someone who sang the Cosmos into existence would be more original/creative than that.
Or put her on a Stained Glass Window with (and winsomely submitting to) her Christian Cuck-hubby.
This reminds me of a harsh rebuke leveled at the first-century pharisees by some Carpenter from Nazareth:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
As a recipient of one of their Certificates in Paralegal Studies, I for one, am utterly ashamed of Liberty and how they let things ever get to this point! How do they ever recover from this? They are nothing more than a laughingstock and a punchline! Good riddance, Junior…and take your predator wife with you!
When cougars attack, no young man is safe….
This is a fascinating issue, IMO.
Perhaps he was simply reluctant to offend the readership. But one can imagine concern about the Rev 22 warnings about adding or subtracting words from “this book”. Or Paul’s warnings about preaching “another Gospel”.
But it seems to me that even if one says the words of the text verbatim, one can in effect “add or subtract” or communicate a different message ( angelion ) than what the texts’ authors intended if one does not accurately perceive the meaning of the verbatim words that one exposits. And I think that accuracy is not always easy to attain.
This, IMO, calls for great humility in one’s approach to the texts. And that, of course, conflicts with another of Paul’s writings, in which he urges his readers to, when they speak, “speak as though speaking the very words of God.” And it conflicts with (what I interpret to be) many present-day preachers’ desire to imitate the authority which which Jesus taught.
My present state of mind is that I am much more comfortable with teaching that explicitly qualifies itself with hedges such as “it seems to me that …” as opposed to “thus says the LORD”, in its exposition and interpretation of the text. I welcome correction and rebuke when I fail to meet this “standard” in my own occasional textual meditations.
Related to the OP in that it’s another example of disregard of the well-being of the people under one’s oversight …
speaking of would-be “thus saith the LORD” “speakers
with authority”-type preachers,…
Julie Roys reports J MacArthur’s latest contribution to the well-being of the city in which he dwells:
https://julieroys.com/evict-macarthur-pandemic/
Sadly, governments do lie to their populations, and it may be even harder to discern truth from manipulation in such cases than it is to perceive the meaning intended by the authors of ancient documents.
It is hard to believe that there will not be an outbreak at JM’s church. Will that be dismissed as an attack by Satan or perhaps welcomed as a Job-like testing?
One weeps for the sheep who are led by bad shepherds, though one is also tempted to wonder how complicit they may be in their own deception.
This would make a fantastic novel. I am so tempted…
“At Liberty, our minds may have been receiving correct content, but our hearts were being trained to love wrongly: to love political power, physical security and economic prosperity as higher goods than they are. ”
I totally agree with this line.
Nah, just those closets and beds in your vicinity.
That’s not much of a thing at LU, but I did have a roommate who’s mom moved her out of my room because I didn’t come from a Christian family and would be a “sinful” influence, ie. want to go out partying and having relationships with people not picked out by them. They are way more afraid of their adult children acting like adults than of demons.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Yes, I’m eagerly waiting for spectral evidence to be restored to its rightful place in the law. We’ve really missed out since it fell into disfavor in 1692.
/s
They sound like swingers.
Samuel Conner,
From my perspective, I understand your comment in the sense of holding the tension between one black-and-white perspective and another black-and-white perspective.
And even as I write those words, there are black-and-white thinkers in either camp who would falsely claim you are copping out (and I do NOT think you are copping out) when you wrote:
ishy,
“Truth is stranger than fiction”
researcher,
Thanks.
I have a vivid memory of an enthusaistic and earnest, and considerably younger than me, YE enthusist who rebuked me for not having the “courage of conviction.”
I replied that he was asking me to courageously affirm things that I was pretty confident were not true.
There is an approach to interpretation and exposition that holds that once one has made one’s best effort to understand a text, one is conscience-bound to disregard one’s fallibility and to assume that the Holy Spirit has rightly guided one to the meaning, and then to fiercely affirm one’s conclusions as if they were directly revealed by God.
That is a good recipe for the theological chaos that we have today. The Holy Spirit does not seem to lead everyone to the same conclusions. Which raises the possibility that some of these conclusions were not illuminated by the Spirit. My conclusions are inevitably vulnerable to this assessment.
Amusingly, “humility” is not explicitly stated to be one of the “fruits of the Spirit”, though it is related to some of them, such as “patience,” “gentleness” and “self-control.” And it is one of the things that “are good, and that YHWH requires” of us, along with “justice” and “mercy.”
Or maybe there’s a more tender explanation, that the Holy Spirit wants people to talk about their different conclusions.
Friend,
a very good point. Church, like marriage, can be an opportunity to grow in grace toward one another.
Or perhaps both of these combined somehow….
Not everyone learns at the same pace or in the same way.
There is no “formula”, no matter what many of the “celebrity pastors” “preach” and / or “teach”.
For me, I am led by the Holy Spirit in my understanding of God and the Bible, obtaining information garnered from EVERYWHERE.
For many things in life, there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all that actually fits all.
The simplest example? What unisex, one-size-fits all article of clothing properly fits EVERYONE – man, woman, boy, girl? Even a winter scarf can’t do that! 🙂
Birthday suit?
Samuel Conner,
I started to read the article, and then skimmed the rest.
I could say tons more, but my comment would end up in customs. 🙂
researcher,
Yes. That article does make one shake one’s head.
I started to type some thoughts into the Comments section at that item, but decided better, am less confident how theologically robust readers at Roys’ blog are and whether my observations might injure some.
But suffice it to say here that “the Gospel”, whatever one understands that to be, is not well served by congregations that function as menaces to public health.
The article says this:
Meanwhile, MacArthur told his congregation on Sunday, “There is no pandemic,” but instead called news of the pandemic a “deception” by “the arch-deceiver Satan himself.”
First, any a preacher’s comment that something is “of Satan” is intended to stop everyone from thinking. His flock is supposed to fear, and maybe act on fear—but they have no permission to make up their own minds or question what the great man has just said.
Beyond this, Satan would have to be working some serious overtime to deceive the central and local governments, health authorities, scientists, doctors, nurses, patients, patients’ families, pathologists, morticians, manufacturers, and airline CEOs (I’m sure I’m leaving some people out), in every country around the entire world—just to prevent a couple of megachurches from meeting exactly where and how they choose.
I just don’t give Satan credit for that much attention to detail. 😉
“The whole purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth…”
— attributed to the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood —
Hhhmmmm….
In hindsight, I see how my comment could be read as a riddle.
And I never thought of an answer to the riddle being someone’s birthday suit. 🙂
Look at the bright side, at least he’s not blaming the Jooz.
Agreed.
Friend,
MacArthur’s remarks are, IMO, a good example of a significant misapplication of NT texts.
Writing in the mid-1st century, Paul saw the influence of an invisible arch-adversary throughout the Roman world. It was a culture founded on idolatry; idolatry was woven throughout social relations (so much so that Jews and then also Christians, who refused to participate in the public festivals, were regarded to be antisocial creatures). The supreme political leaders were regarded in their life-times to be quasi-deities, and were often deified after their passing. That world was substantially, though imperfectly, overthrown in the 4th Century with the tolerance and later endorsement of organized Christianity by the Emperor.
Is “the power of the prince of the air” a timeless truth? I doubt it. Paul was describing the world in which he lived and ministered, I think.
It strikes me (trying to qualify my statement here to comport with the humility I think one ought to have when making such assertions) as a significant mis-application of Paul’s words to see the current situation as resembling the one he faced. Christendom is dead, but is still culturally quite powerful.
And it’s quite odd that Paul could write the kinds of things he did in Romans 13, about submission to God-appointed political authorities, if JM’s view of the pervasive power of the adversary is accurate. It’s a head-scratcher; surely our present system is not more influenced by Satan than the 1st-century Roman Empire was.
As you say, JM’s language ends debate. One hopes the debate will be re-opened if there is a CV outbreak among the members of that congregation.
What?! MacArthur, along with a multitude of others like him, are themselves a pandemic in the American church. They certainly know some things about deception.
New Calvinists are famous for that!
This is the same guy that inserted himself into civil rights history when multiple people said he was not there. I would go more with delusional or maybe having dementia, but without any accountability to get him checked for it.
Samuel Conner,
This is so irresponsible…. guess what, cancer does not “kill” most people… it is the complications that metastatic cancer brings to the person that kills them… sigh….
I sometimes run with the premise that everything that can be misunderstood should be misunderstood. It makes conversations more interesting. 🙂
One of the best lines I heard along these lines was, “I don’t think you misunderstood me correctly.”
Birthday is not a correct answer ……. mine is at least two sizes too big!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Should read “Birthday suit”
With sadness, I would add the police to those who believe the pandemic is real. Here are 2020 statistics from the Officer Down Memorial Page (emphasis mine):
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 182
9/11 related cancer 3
Aircraft accident 1
Automobile crash 15
COVID19 101
Drowned 3
Duty related illness 2
Gunfire 31
Gunfire (Inadvertent) 4
Heart attack 5
Motorcycle crash 2
Struck by vehicle 6
Vehicle pursuit 2
Vehicular assault 7
Source: https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020
Another site, for the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, says that seven California police officers have died of covid-19.
Ken F (aka Tweed),
When I first read your “birthday suit?” answer, I was reminded of those times when I was teaching and I encountered similar circumstances on tests I had created.
A student of mine might appear to give a “wrong” answer to one of the questions on my test, but, upon re-reading my original test question and the student’s answer, I would realize the student had a valid interpretation of the question on my test.
In such cases, I unquestioningly gave the student full marks if they had answered the misread question correctly.
I don’t remember if I made notes on the student’s test to explain what I had originally intended.
Other than the physically newborn baby, does ANYONE fit in their actual physical birthday suit? 🙂
Max,
My grandmother used to criticize my mom’s heaving bosom novels. My mom realized after one such reproof that Grandma had returned to reading a large print edition of “The Godfather.”
Linn,
The New Calvinists call that “sin-leveling” 🙂
Mine still fits, but not in the way it used to.
Or wedding day suit for that matter! My wife and I celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last Sunday. The 50-year “before and after” photos our daughter assembled for the party were quite striking.
Samuel Conner,
Not that I was going near churches (for a successive series of reasons), but I have begun to hear of churches that accommodate their usual congregations by spreading out not huddling up, and keeping the door open the while, plus some pew wiping. Some of them had seen that this could be done safely from May onwards. I don’t believe in guilt tripping anyone to attend and I do think christians should bother with each other between “services”.
Yes, although some of the swingees appear reluctant to have been swung.
I find the financial abuses, unfairness, and lack of justice at these institutions more upsetting than the sordid (setting aside the predatory). Apparently important, rich “godly” men have problems with their personal urges. None of that shocks me anymore.
The money, privilege, and nepotism in Christian circles has become so ugly . We are so far from Jesus teaching us to consider the least among us.
There is a problem when family members and close friends are on all these Boards. This club atmosphere leads to group think and validatation. These ministries or institutions become about supporting one’s family and buddies, and not the supposed mission.
I draw a comparison to John MacArthur, Grace To You and TMU with the accreditation. What an incestuous mess of no expertise or accountability. Hey I’ll have my son in law with no experience in higher ed administration run things …and I’ll also pay him millions through this other ministry for “video production”.
The heathens do better than this.
The average family struggles and has to make hard choices, but a million here and a million there…it’s absolutely nothing to these “men of god”. They experience no conviction or sense of sin about these improprieties because Christianity is becoming more about politics and ideology than personal standards or character. If you’re on the right team, you’re all good.
Congratulations, Max! Hope you have many more together.
As someone who’s dabbled in writing, God with a big “G” is pretty much impossible to represent as a character. The best tack is to keep Him in the background, present but not visible. (That was the tack taken by the main scriptwriter for the Eighties miniseries A.D. which dramatized some of the Book of Acts alongside the main Roman history of the time.)
Happiest of anniversaries to you both!
Bunsen Honeydew,
Shout it from the mountaintops!
Max,
That is a good description… these “preachers” are a pandemic on anyone that does not think and read the Bible fior themselves!
I’d just point out that Julie Roys’ article is wrong about the lease and the “eviction.” I have read this lease several times, because I continue to be astonished that a church which relies on this parking area (it’s the nearest parking lot off the church’s property and to the facility’s west on Roscoe Blvd., next to the flood drainage canal) would sign a *month to month* lease in *2001* and never do anything about it. One would think that an organization which depended on this lot would get something more firm in place. You know, like a year to year lease, with more time to end the lease.
And this not an *eviction*, either. There’s no indication that GCC has not been paying its rent. In fact, the letter from the LA County Department of Public Works indicates that GCC only has to pay for one month (September) rather than the three months which would normally be expected in a quarterly payment. There doesn’t appear to be any arrears on the rent.
I’d also note the lease allows either the LA County Flood District or Grace Community Church to give one month’s notice and get out of the lease, with no reason required. The Flood District is merely exercising a clause in this 19 year old *month to month* lease. GCC could have done the same, sent a letter yesterday saying “We are out as of October 1” and it would serve to end the lease just as surely as the letter from the Public Works department does.
Finally, there is nothing in the letter from the LA County Department of Public Works that the end of the lease has ANYTHING to do with the current issue GCC is having with the county. I read it AGAIN to make sure. Julie Roys really needs to stop listening to GCC’s attorneys and actually read the documents for herself.
Now, all of that said, I just don’t think that LA County would just dump GCC over COVID-19. Yeah, it’s petty, but seriously, no county wants to be policing the neighborhood around GCC on Sunday, October 4, when a few hundred cars that had previously parked in that lot attempt to find parking. The neighbors don’t want these cars in their neighborhood either. So I think there’s something else going on, something that may have been going on for a while. And it could be something as simple as the county is going to do work on the drainage canal and needs the lot for whatever it’s doing. I don’t know.
John MacArthur needs to get in touch with fellow evangelist Kenneth Copeland about this non pandemic mess. I saw Copeland blow the virus away just a couple of months ago. While he and Copeland confer about this non existent fake news pandemic he can maybe join in with Copeland and other esteemed men and women of god as one of Trumps spiritual advisors. I think he would fit right in. I heard there is an opening now since he lost one of his most important advisors just a few days ago. Poor guy just didn’t have time for any extra work.
Along with those who have already commented, I’ll add my best wishes to you and your wife on celebrating your 50th anniversary.
researcher,
Samuel Conner: “The Holy Spirit does not seem to lead everyone to the same conclusions. Which raises the possibility that some of these conclusions were not illuminated by the Spirit. My conclusions are inevitably vulnerable to this assessment.”
—–
Friend: “Or maybe there’s a more tender explanation, that the Holy Spirit wants people to talk about their different conclusions.”
——–
researcher: “Or perhaps both of these combined somehow….
Not everyone learns at the same pace or in the same way.
There is no “formula”, no matter what many of the “celebrity pastors” “preach” and / or “teach”.
++++++++++++++++++
.
.
i think faith and spirituality are like cooking. there’s no one right way to cook anything.
there are some good objectives – like, meat that is tender, dough that is not tough, yeast bread that has risen, veggies that are al dente, flavors that pop as opposed to disappearing…
but there are many ways to accomplish these things.
and there are many objectives that are entirely subjective:
salty, sweet, sour, bitter, crispy, crunchy, soft, chewy, hot, warm, cold, room temperature, melted, solid, the spectrum of raw-to-well done, spicy, citrusy, herb-y, garlic and onion, slow, quick, detailed, easy, vegetarian, vegan, pescatarian,…
the point is to nourish ourselves and others so we have strength for today and the future, and in a way that is respectful of living things & resources.
if we can do so in a way that is beautiful and brings pleasure (for which there isn’t a right or wrong), that’s a bonus.
I’m totally done with the the christian institution.
no matter where i turn, groups of gravely serious people always tell me i’m wrong for liking pancakes raw in the middle. others tell me i’m wrong for liking pretzels and milk. others tell me i’m wrong for having peanut butter with my hot cereal. others tell me i’m wrong for roasting my pork loin at a high temperature. others tell me i’m wrong for stuffing a turkey with lemons and adding hard cider to the gravy.
i’m wrong no matter where i take a step. hell, all i have to do is just stand there and i’m still wrong. christians are always there to tell me (sweetly or not) that i’m so wrong that i’m stupid, dangerous, and disgusting.
(a little hyperbole, but not much)
i call that not a good use of my precious time on earth.
elastigirl,
I’m OK with everything you said, elastigirl … except “for liking pancakes raw in the middle” … that’s just wrong 🙂
All of that sounds awesome. I’m fond of kielbasa and Log Cabin Syrup.
*Ahem.* Anybody else have a… confession?
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
If this were a game of Clue, I’d say “Satan in the parking lot with a month-to-month lease.”
Seriously, thank you for all the details. That’s where the devil is, right? 😉
Max,
Max, Grandma’s other comment was my mom’s book had so much violence in it. It’s one of our family stories that will live forever.
Peanut butter and pickle sandwiches.
researcher,
Congratulations on your 50th! May God give you many more years of happiness together!
elastigirl,
What you wrote in your comment gave me an idea that I am going use your words to try and put together.
and
and
and
and
and
Most people think I am incredibly picky with my food and / or how I eat, although I have very valid health reasons for the choices I make….and I know I am not alone in making these (or similar) choices.
Yet these same people who think I am incredibly picky with my food and / or how I eat refuse to believe I have very valid health reasons for the choices I make….indeed, these same people think they know what is “healthier” or “better” or “less restrictive” or whatever for me than I know for myself.
These kind of people often-times turn out to have a hidden agenda.
Most of the time, the people I have encountered with this hidden-agenda attitude start off with an “innocent” tone of voice, “asking a simple question”.
Often-times, these people are (consciously or unconsciously) feeling defensive about their own choice(s), so they go on attack, attempting to feel better in some way by destroying or tearing down another person and / or group of people.
For me, I have encountered these kinds of abusers and bullies for almost all of my life, resulting in my almost always automatically slipping back into my well-known role of everyone’s scapegoat.
Perhaps a similar idea can be applied to faith and spirituality….
Julie,
I think maybe you were intending to reply to Max?
Meanwhile, the Dallas County DA’s office has announced that it is DROPPING charges against former Village Church pastoral staff member Matthew Tonne. They said that “the complainant could not and did not positively identify the defendant as the person who committed the offense.” The victim’s attorney says the DA’s office never contacted him one time prior to dropping the case, and insists that the victim WILL identify Tonne as the assailant during the upcoming civil trial.
The only time I’ve ever heard of such a case being dropped is if the victim chose not to testify. I’ve NEVER heard of a case being dropped when the victim is willing and able to do so, especially when a child is involved. It makes me wonder if Village Church is secretly going to fund the DA’s campaign (in 2020 when the position is up for re-election) in exchange for getting the case dropped.
elastigirl,
I too am with ya’ on this one elastigirl.
Why do some people (and not just fundagelicals) always demand uniformity for everything?
It’s gotta’ be part of the human parade, just like a float that looks like it was made with a giant cookie cutter.
Ketchup on my hushpuppies.
Hot, homemade chocolate pudding poured over a cold, split, homemade biscuit.
A hotdog, broiled in the oven until crispy on the outside …… with mashed potatoes and shredded cheddar on top.
I hope it feels more like 5 than 50.
researcher,
Yes. I was wishing Max a happy anniversary.
Max,
Friend,
researcher,
++++++++++++++++++
to be clear, (and you probably already know this, but my brain is too overworked* to pick up on it), no one tells me i’m wrong to like those foods and cook that way (well, except my kids, with the pancakes).
but it’s my metaphor for what christian culture has become.
(which might as well be christianity as a whole. christianity is what people make of it, and is wholly distinct from jesus christ).
.
.
(*i’m inventing a new on-line ‘wheel’, so to speak, in my self-employment… and taking college classes, too — pursuing the major/degree i should have opted for many years ago, instead of the one i chose at the time. never too late. today’s always the first day of the rest of my life.)
Muff Potter,
“It’s gotta’ be part of the human parade”
++++++++++
i think it’s nonthinking primeval survival instinct. anyone who looks different is to be wary of, if not driven off with sticks.
i’m sticking with those who function with their intelligence.
Muff Potter,
One word: Pride
I knew there was something about you. I just knew it!
You would not have this pancake problem if you would be honest with your elders like this woman from TGC’s most recent post:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/honest-with-elders/
Who thinks this way?
I didn’t remember these things until a just a few moments ago….
Years ago, when I was a child, I would drink the pickle juice (and eat the garlic) from the jars of my mother’s homemade dill pickles. 🙂
Now, I drink organic apple cider vinegar straight from the bottle…. 🙂
(The organic apple cider vinegar tastes way better then commercial dill pickles, and doesn’t have the additives and preservatives they put in commercial dill pickles…and organic dill pickles are beyond my budget.)
(And not too long ago, I would roast entire heads (some people call them bulbs) of garlic, then peel and eat all the cloves in the garlic bulb at once….there were times I needed to do something to freshen my breath after my roasted garlic feasts. 🙂 )
supposedly common in Korea! Keeps the vampires away I guess (or maybe mosquitos??).
elastigirl,
“i think it’s nonthinking primeval survival instinct. anyone who looks different is to be wary of, if not driven off with sticks.”
++++++++++++++++++
it’s why one of my maxims in life is always rethink stepping into a time machine.
(it’s going to be very hard to say no, so i had to think it through ahead of time.)
I had a roomate who used to bake them and then spread the soft, baked cloves on bread. It was delicious!
Ken F (aka Tweed),
“You would not have this pancake problem if you would be honest with your elders like this woman from TGC’s most recent post:”
++++++++++++
TGC can help me with my pancake problems?? this i have to read.
‘cuz you haven’t had problems til you’ve had pancake problems.
Friend,
“I’m fond of kielbasa and Log Cabin Syrup.
*Ahem.* Anybody else have a… confession?”
+++++++++++++++++
**for emergency purposes only**
you get a little dish. get a little butter from the butter dish, add some sugar, a little flour, & quickly mash it together with a fork (before anyone notices what you’re doing). and then pretend you’re eating something else.
but i have to ask a very important question: would real maple syrup work if it was the same price as log cabin?
researcher,
do you have Bragg’s apple cider vinegar where you are? full of healthy bacteria and other nutritional things.
my daughter thought she had bronchitis but we couldn’t get a dr. appointment for some days. we treated it with bragg’s apple cider vinegar, dandelion tea steeped with fresh ginger & tumeric, and elderberry extract. it did the trick.
I think that real grade B maple syrup and high-quality polska kielbasa would be excellent.
However, it would not delight my Rust Belt soul. We grew up on cheap food, including whatever the mill workers’ kin introduced from the old country.
Wonder bread and braunschweiger.
Honestly, does anyone want to be honest with a 20-30 year old YRR pastor and his band of “elders” of same age? What’s between you and the Lord is between you and the Lord.
That’s the problem with you and me – we are too old to get it.
Roasted garlic is incredible. I had doughts a until I tried it. Now I am hooked.
To paraphrase a famous cult leader with a funny little mustache:
“You are Passing Away, but they will remain MINE.”
“BEWARE THOU OF THE MUTANT.”
Friend,
ok, so sort of like how kraft macaroni and cheese in the blue box is the bees the knees and home-made macaroni & cheese with aged cheddar is an utter disappointment?
“One Hand Washes the Other…”
With Isaiah 55:8-9 quoted for justification.
We’re you pregnant at the time?
Reminds me of this anecdote from “Nutsy Nancy”, resident goofball of the Cal Poly Gang (the groupI went through college with and hung out with for about 10 years afterwards):
When she was pregnant with her first, “I decided to try it. So I took a dill pickle, put a scoop of strawberry ice cream on top, and ate it.” (long pause…) “I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA DIE! IT WAS AWFUL!”
elastigirl,
Zackly. Quality ruins it.
In comparison with Copeland, JMac is just another beggar dressed in rags. Why would The Richest Televangelist in the World want anything to do with him?
I was young and now am old … and I ain’t seen nothin’ in church like this New Calvinist pandemic!
I started eating them when I was 5-6, so I think that would be a medical miracle! My grandmother was fond of them.
True story: When I was a camp counselor, we had fairly portioned meals, but there was always bread, peanut butter, and a bowl of hamburger pickles at the condiment table during meals. So I introduced my campers to PB&P pickles. They were grossed out at first but slowly started trying it. A few weeks later, they had to rescind peanut butter and bread privileges because the whole camp was eating them.
ishy,
Skippy used to sell peanut butter mixed with a thing everybody thought was bacon. The product was called Peanut Butter with Smoky Crisps.
I don’t think that product name would work these days, unless they also included CBD. 😉
Slice eating apple into oil you’re warming up (next time, I’ll open canned apricots)
What flour / flours you want
An egg or so
Splashes of milk
A few drops water
Doesn’t matter if you don’t mix it much
Put over the other, either all at once or save half for next “helping”
Cook it anyhow you want
When (rather than if) it breaks up it becomes Pancake Pudding Pie
Splash or drip lime (or lemon) juice on
Drizzle maple syrup with restraint
Bachelor Lifestyle Special
https://twitter.com/brentdetwiler/status/1300948566576308224?s=21
The parking lot to MacArthur claims they were evicted from isn’t that large. See above tweet.
Yep. I have some Bragg’s apple cider vinegar in my cupboard (as well as their liquid soy, aka liquid aminos, which, imho, tastes way better than soy sauce).
I also have another brand of apple cider vinegar with all the same health benefits as Bragg’s. And I used to have easy access to another brand of apple cider vinegar with all the same health benefits as Bragg’s, but it was slightly sweeter (less vinegary?) in taste, if that makes any sense.
While I understand many of the potential health benefits of each thing you mentioned, I rarely used (or use) them in the “normal” way.
For their bitter taste:
I used to drink roasted dandelion root tea, chew on dried (raw, not roasted) dandelion root, or chew on dried roasted dandelion root. And many years ago, I had access to fresh dandelion leaves.
I don’t pick fresh dandelion (root or leaf) because everything close by to me has either been sprayed with herbicides (or sprayed by dogs 🙂 ), or has been exposed to vehicle exhaust.
I add ground turmeric to some of my food, or take a rounded measuring teaspoonful of ground turmeric and hold it on my tongue a short while before swallowing it.
I don’t know if you have Angostura bitters where you live, but I used to shake (maybe 1/4 – 1/2 teaspoon) of it directly onto my tongue.
Angostura bitters is frequently used in aperitifs, but I liked the bitterness provided by the gentian it contains.
For other reasons:
I used to eat chunks of raw ginger root, but the pandemic has limited my access to it. And I used to eat chunks of dried ginger root, but the price has become too cost prohibitive for me.
I DO, however, eat a ton of dried ground ginger. 🙂
I used to have easy (and relatively inexpensive) access to dried elderberries. I used to chew on them, although, like blueberries, they have a tendency to (temporarily) stain teeth and tongue.
researcher,
Never heard of angostura bitters, although I’m sure I should have.
You’d fit in very well where I live.
Jasmine rice and Vietnamese fish sauce.
Seems like there were plenty of signs there, as they themselves acknowledge in their own wording, that “some” may say the signs were all there for a long time.
They acknowledge that there were “questionable comments, worrying behavior and inappropriate social media posts.” What were they waiting for? A telegram from God? Where did they think those were coming from?
I guess Liberty was not aware of the principle of Luke 5:45?
Over and over I observed that church leaders were not people you can count on to do the right thing. They are passive followers.
Exactly. This is just window dressing. If they can’t find people of character to take these positions maybe it’s time to fold up.
Swingers generally seek out other consenting adults who are looking for the same thing. The Falwells seem to have sought out unsuspecting young and naive people to prey on.
That was painful to read. Is that what Stockholm Syndrome sounds like? Yuck. Lady, go out and find the places and the friends that work for you and your boys! Use your own brains! Develop your own observational skills!
IMO, all executives and trustees at Christian institutions should meet the Biblical qualifications for elders set forth in Titus, 1 Timothy, and 1 Peter. I suspect some on LU’s Board of Trustees do not … e.g., the big donor businessmen who serve on the board.
“Above reproach” alone would be a tough hurdle for some of these folks … heck, Junior himself failed that one years ago!
Weird, isn’t it? Fundagelicals reject education and training because it’s worldly and corrupting. Then they bring a boatload* of personal corruption. So the organization lacks both skills and integrity in its leaders.
*Or a yachtload.
Friend,
Excellent summary!
Max,
Family members of big “evangelisers”, who insist on staying on boards like this, see words as shallow, don’t see any good in other individuals, and are convinced their own bad attitude won’t be seen by anyone and / or decide to defiantly flaunt it out of superiority. This IS Scofieldism in action and practice. It is their Manifest Destiny to tyrannise humanity totally, so that then others shall copy them.
…while insisting they are way more moral than everyone else in the world…
ishy,
Yup!! And the then complain like crazy about how much they are persecuted… and how the media treats them
When somebody laments, “I have been silenced,” I always wonder how.
Unfortunately, big-buck donations and power connections offset skills and integrity in the trustee ranks at many “Christian” colleges … a trustee strategy that most of these institutions employ. It’s more important to appoint trustees who bring money and/or celebrity to the table than ability and character. Being a yes-man pal with the President is a plus!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-falwell-legacy-insight-idUSKBN25V27L?fbclid=IwAR2kRTHZf_yymxPJR4HaR4F0XDPhz964f7urnO-2oIPrBSXJ2Z9zIWDSbiQ
Steve240,
Well! Thanks for posting the link. Excerpts:
How Jerry Falwell Jr. mixed his personal finances with his university’s
…He put his two sons – and their wives as well – on the university’s payroll. He arranged the transfer of a multi-acre Liberty facility to his personal trainer. He enlisted a friend’s construction company to manage an ambitious campus expansion costing hundreds of millions of dollars.
And before becoming school president, Falwell set up two companies that enabled him to cut property deals with one of the many nonprofit entities affiliated with the university, Reuters found. In each of the deals, Falwell played multiple roles with potentially conflicting interests: He was an officer of the university, a board member for the nonprofit selling the land, and a private developer who could profit from the transactions.
Friend,
Additional excerpts (from which (general) you can draw conclusions 🙂 ):
researcher,
More gas being poured on the floating, burning dumpster……
Friend,
This is clear a “no-no” at my institution… At least for us peons…… not sure if the “rules” apply to admin though… the6 all seem to find ways to get of them..
Maybe you just aren’t smart enough to buy into a strip mall off campus and use college money to build a pedestrian tunnel to your strip mall.
And in 2012, in a project Falwell launched as Liberty’s president, the university spent more than $2 million to build a tunnel that links the campus to another shopping plaza near campus. Falwell is a part owner of that shopping plaza.
When I read your comment, as well as the text you quoted from the article, I had a number of thoughts cross my mind….none of which bear repeating or my comment would get stuck in customs…. 🙂
I think I get it now, Scofieldists – oops I mean Christians – are people to not “mess” with, they have predefined us as liars, and “trust” has a new meaning to replace the old one. Am I catching up with the “new abnormal” fast enough?
Friend,
This just makes me sigh more…. I am so tired of this poop….
just for jollies, I should post some of the conflict of interest paper work I have to do…. as well as on-line training et al…
I say it again… the Board of Trustees are either: a) chicken to do anything ( the “G” version of what I want to say), b) stupidly ignorant/incompetent, c) corrupt.
And, the students/parents are being played “the fool”…
And the LU trustees didn’t have a problem with this?! Good Lord!! There needs to be a day of reckoning with these leaders.
Manipulation, intimidation, and domination are not fruit of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in the reporting on Junior that indicates a Christlike character. The LU trustees must have felt that he was too big to fail, too important to raising donor support, too critical to keep the Falwell name attached to LU, etc. … rather than requiring a godly character for the LU President.
This sentence tells me he’s a liar, because there’s a lot of alumni who want this investigation to be thorough and honest, including me. This isn’t just about “the media” or “liberals”. This is about the rightful education of students.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/09/04/report-jerry-falwell-jr-benefited-personally-from-liberty-university-real-estate-dealings/#7f3174b95d19
Steve240,
Thanks for the link… 🙂
Steve240,
From the Forbes article: “According to the Reuters report, Fallwell intertwined his personal finances with those of Liberty starting in 2001, when he was working as a lawyer handling the school’s real estate.”
Point of information: this was six (6) years before the death of Falwell Sr. They were building a dynasty.
“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions.”
—Jerry Falwell Sr
Wasn’t Liberty Univesity more like the Falwell family business?
That’s the travesty.
But there’s hope. Increase Mather was the president of Harvard during the era of witch trials. He kind of played both sides, basically saying “heck yeah there are scary witches, but the public thinks we’re going overboard about them.” Harvard now has a $1.6 billion endowment and is no longer much encumbered by the name Mather.
So maybe Liberty can shake the Falwell dust off its sandals…
/sarc, kind of
Falwell Sr definitely had a lot of faults, but he really cared about students. He could remember the names and other information of everyone he met and he spent a lot of time on campus just talking to students. He always called me by name and asked me how my missions classes were going. He did also run up on the sidewalk in his SUV behind me one time and yelled for me to get out of the way. That was one of his favorite pranks on students.
One of the first thing Junior did was get rid of all the scholarships Senior had put in place for students to attend. That’s why Jerry “made the school so much money” as he put it. A lot of the financial decisions were not for the benefit of students, even though the university existed to instruct students (supposedly). I do think the online university was a good move, but most of the other things Junior did seemed to have ulterior motives that benefited him or his family more than students.
ishy
So maybe it was Jr. that made Liberty into a family business? Sr. had the students interests at heart.
I definitely think that’s true for intent. I have heard that some of this started by Junior while he was LU’s lawyer, before Senior’s death, but I didn’t see these massive real estate deals and fancy buildings while I was there, except for the coliseum. The campus was relatively austere and a lot of money went out to students for scholarships.
If I compare that to Thomas White’s video on the other post about Cedarville, it definitely seems like turning these Christian schools into financial boons was something that wasn’t a thing until later.
ishy,
New story from The Hill. Thoughts?
Liberty University tells staff members to distance themselves from Falwell
Liberty University staff members are being instructed to refrain from interacting with the school’s ousted president Jerry Falwell Jr., according to David Corry, the school’s general counsel.
Corry told staff in an email Thursday that Falwell made “uncomfortable” calls to some employees after his resignation from the university last week, The News & Advance reported Friday.
He said that any continuing discussions between Falwell and university staff could give the impression that he is still managing the school.
“This impression is not well received by our supporters who do not want Mr. Falwell to be running Liberty University behind the scenes,” Corry wrote in the email.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/515277-liberty-university-tells-staff-members-to-distance-themselves-from-falwell
While I don’t have the knowledge and experience with LU that ishy does, I wondered while reading the article if LU was making some kind of attempt at image management….
It’s hard to know if this is image management, or Junior trying to intimidate or influence, or something else.
Then the LU alumni association needs to demand a true “independent” investigation. If LU is paying for it, it’s not really an absolute unconstrained look at the misbehaving of Falwell and the trustees, IMO. Too bad there’s not an outside source that can step in to assess bad-boy leaders on Christian campuses, with a funding source not attached to the investigated party to ensure an actual independent investigation.
I get madder (righteous anger, of course) the more I think about this. I fault LU trustees for letting Junior run wild for way too many years on stuff like this. It’s time to clean house there.
Or maybe it’s some combination of all the options?
Max,
Looks like they’ve hired a serious independent firm for the investigation. That’s Job 1. Job 2 is investigating the Trustees themselves. This looks like another Harvest Chapel or Willow Creek where the board was AWOL and complicit, and needs to go, along with the terrible guy they enabled for years. We’ll see.
researcher,
What I meant to say is, you’re right on. The board is also corrupt and has to go.
Max,
You’re right on that the board is totally complicit in enabling this kind of self-dealer for years, let alone the sordid personal stuff.
No parent should enroll their kid at Liberty unless the whole BOT is cleaned out. Anything short of that and there’s no reason to think this is going to be a “Christian” institution going forward.
Friend,
As an Ivy alum I have to note that Harvard’s endowment is about 42 billion. My own alma mater, Dartmouth, has a “mere” 6 billion. I like my college, but for me, they’re dead last on the list of non profit causes that might get my money.
Wow. I’m not surprised he thought he could shadow run the school. That seems just like him. But what Corry said is exactly right–the people who want him out most are the people closest to the school. It’s not some media conspiracy by people who don’t know him.
Unfortunately, they have been for years now. Which is why I think there has to be hinky things going on with the board. And I know their alumni donations are down by the increasingly desperate letters and postcards asking for money, though that’s been confirmed by some of the articles and some I know who are still there in some capacity.
I suspect Junior might be trying to get Trey into the President position so he can continue to shadow lord. But that statement makes it pretty clear everybody wants the Falwells out. I wouldn’t be too surprised if Jonathan or one of his kids was put in place, but they really just need to find someone outside of all of it.
In the original article, it sounded to me like Junior was making threats if things didn’t go his way. If this investigation does find things, I wonder if it will get turned over to the VA attorney general. I don’t think Junior can mess with him and win if he did something very wrong.
Just don’t forget that Falwell Jr. is a lawyer and thus may have been “legal” but still quite questionable. From the attitude Falwell has he either is way over confident that he won’t be exposed or perhaps know there is nothing they can technically get him for. Another possibility is that so many others are involved that everyone will remain quiet.
It could just be Falwell Jr.’s apparent narcissism.
Again, my concern is “they’ve hired.” While the firm may be “serious”, it cannot truly be “independent” with funding for its investigation coming from the party they are investigating. It should be clear by now that some on the Board share responsibility for Falwell’s longtime uncorrected string of transgressions. It’s too bad that an unconstrained look at this mess can’t be performed without an LU tether. I don’t think the LU family, nor the church at large, will be completely satisfied with such report.
Don Ho,
Thanks very much, sorry. I was in a hurry and must have looked that up on the version of the Internet released in, uh, 1792. 😉
Apologies again for the dumb mixup about endowment amounts. According to Liberty, it is Liberty that has a $1.6 billion endowment. Asking for money right now strikes me as a bit crass. Please note Don Ho’s correction that the Harvard endowment is about $42 billion. (The Harvard Crimson cites $40.9 as of 2019.)
Liberty compared its endowment with those of the Ivies in Feb 2020:
Liberty’s endowment remains in nation’s Top 100, outpacing Ivy League schools and recording fourth-fastest growth
… Liberty University’s investment strategy is helping the university position itself to serve students and alumni for decades to come. A National Association of College and University Business Officers (NACUBO) study released last week shows that Liberty’s $1.6 billion endowment portion of its $2 billion in investments puts Liberty in the top 100 of schools with the largest endowments in the United States. The NACUBO report showed that Liberty’s ranking improved from the 74th largest to the 68th, jumping up six places in one year.
“Our endowment increased in value by 10.8% in one year — more than triple the 3.4% average change in market value of the other top 10 largest endowment-ranked schools in the country,” said Liberty President Jerry Falwell. “That list includes Stanford, MIT, Notre Dame, University of Michigan, University of Texas, Texas A&M, and the Ivy League’s Penn, Yale, Harvard and Princeton. This means that the national-level acumen of our LU leadership and investment partners is now considered ‘business as usual!’” …
https://www.liberty.edu/news/2020/02/03/libertys-endowment-remains-in-nations-top-100-outpacing-ivy-league-schools-and-recording-fourth-fastest-growth/
The point of comparison is the pace of growth, not the size of the endowment.
Meanwhile, according to Harvard, they spent $1.9 billion of their own endowment on Harvard in 2019. Source is Harvard dot edu, “About” menu and “Endowment.”
So. Liberty brags about having a $1.6 billion endowment, while Harvard spends $1.9 billion of its endowment. But they’re both in the top 100!
All US taxpayers donate to Liberty:
The tax-exempt Liberty relies on hundreds of millions of dollars in Pell grants and government-backed student loans. Liberty students received $618 million in federal taxpayer loans and aid in a single year, according to a 2018 audit report.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/liberty-university-investigates-jerry-falwell-jrs-personal-finances.html
“He was an officer of the university, a board member for the nonprofit selling the land, and a private developer who could profit from the transactions … Liberty employed a private firm – JF Management – formed by Jerry “Trey” Falwell III, Falwell’s elder son, to manage university properties … Trey Falwell also serves as a Liberty vice president … governance specialists say such deals can raise concern about conflicts of interest or potential breaches of fiduciary duty …” etc. etc.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
I’m sure that Falwell Senior was more concerned about the students’ welfare and education. However, he was well aware of his own family legacy of empire building. Maybe he was just naive about Junior. Here’s a piece from way back in 1987:
… the evangelist’s father, Carey Hezekiah Falwell, became one of the most powerful local citizens. He built a business empire made up of bootlegging, filling stations, a hotel and a nightclub, the Merry Garden, which seated 1,000 and featured such musicians as Tommy Dorsey, Jerry Jr. said.
https://apnews.com/4645e0c3a8019b2078c5ff0071790116
I suspect that while, being a real estate lawyer, he knows a lot about real estate law, but he might not know all he thinks he does about nonprofit law particularly related to a university. I don’t have law knowledge, but I’ve worked in a nonprofit for a number of years and know there’s a lot of stuff that applies to nonprofits that don’t apply elsewhere.
Having met Junior, I also think he’s arrogant enough to think he can get away with anything and punish anyone who dares question him. So, yeah, I have thought that maybe he got by on the letter of the law, but I doubt it. And just because he tried to do things properly doesn’t mean those under him, or his son, have done so in his name and under his orders.
Friend,
Heck, in that part of America in those days, everybody had a bootlegger or a consumer in the family!
“He also warned Reuters not to question his two adult sons, both of whom still have jobs at Liberty. “Trust me,” Falwell said during the call, “you do not want to mess with me, OK?””
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/liberty-university-investigates-jerry-falwell-jrs-personal-finances.html
Ha, I’m from elsewhere, by my fam had a farmer with a speakeasy in a barn, as well as a cop who busted up stills just like Elliot Ness!
Somehow, though, we did not parlay any of that into a business empire… 😉
Perhaps it’s just my naivety, but I wouldn’t think leading a Christian institution, while also building a business empire, is the right thing to do … particularly if the former provided connections to achieve the latter. Reckon how many LU trustees were involved with Junior’s business ventures?
Max,
It’s fine for Christians to have secular business interests. The problem is conflict of interest, and potentially the nature of the business.
Investing in a gay-friendly hostel, while preaching or working against LGBTQ+ people, would potentially qualify, especially if the investment funds were tied up with nonprofit university funds.
Friend,
Maybe Jerry Jr is trying to recreate the Merry Garden in a different way? I just read all these things and I get angry for the way in which he has squandered other peoples’ money on himself. I was a self-supporting missionary for about 15 years, and I remember my elderly supporters who would send in $10 out of meager monthly Social Security check. I always told them that if they couldn’t, not to worry about it (they always kept me well-fed on homemade pie when I was home), but they were my most faithful donors. I find guys like JF Jr. appalling!
Guys like JF Jr. cannot identify with Christians like you. He lives and moves in his own kingdom, not the Kingdom of God. The last shall be first and the first last.
Agreed. My point was Junior had enough to do (if he did it right) as full-time President of a Christian college. I am a Christian and had a secular consulting business, but it didn’t conflict with my personal ministry to others (I did that freely and not for profit).
Those are the scariest “preachers” out there … the ones who preach the hardest about a particular sin, while living that sin themselves … remember Ted Haggard?
Good points.
Even in most larger corporations they talk about conflicts of interest and to not have them. It looks like the Falwells sadly had plenty of them. Again they thought Liberty was a family business.
I am sure Falwell is so full of himself to think he won’t get caught. If Falwell had any sense he would have acted much differently after unzipped pants picture became public. This would have included acting much more remorseful vs. saying he would try and be a good boy.
I worked for a company that was seeking a $300 million contract. All employees had some stock in our own company. After we submitted our proposal, we were told not to buy or sell so much as one share.
Rumors started: we were going to win. Every day, after the stock market closed, the executives gathered in an office right next to my cubicle. They called a phone number and listened to our closing stock price.
The price per share rose daily. The executives roared with hysterical, bitter, giddy, helpless laughter.
Somewhere out there, people were buying our stock and sending the price soaring. The only people locked out of the action were us toilers.
“I have the Right to do Anything to Anyone.”
— Caligula
In the words of the Prophet Melvin Kaminksky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSEMshf_tN0
Who’s signing the “serious independent firm”s paychecks?
We’ve seen this over and over with “serious independent investigations” of rich and crooked ministries.
MONEY TALKS. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repest, Lather, Rinse, Repeat…
Nothing worse than a covey of greedy MBAs.
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/a-culture-of-fear-liberty-u-trustees-under-fire-for-ignoring-complaints-about-falwell-jrs-campus-carousing/?fbclid=IwAR2r8LxHqN7Lp3z6FtabnD9V-E8bJDrJITI_5Py1KY5daaWwNpQ7pim-JBM
Steve240,
From the linked article: … Once, at a Liberty football game, he accidentally sent a risqué photo of his wife to a number of administrators, including his son, according to people who witnessed it. …
As I recall, Michael Cohen allegedly helped Junior to make risqué photos of his wife disappear. I would wonder if this is related, but of course it is, and I don’t want to spend time wondering about it. Blehhhh.
That’s what a Fixer does.
I am sure if Falwell had sense enough to be more discreet in his actions he could have gotten away with it for a much longer time. It was almost as if Falwell thought he was invincible or maybe wanted to get fired or perhaps enjoyed pushing the envelope.
I have the impression that there is growing evidence that “power is bad for you.” (of course, powerlessness can have bad consequences, too).
Here’s an older but still relatively recent item:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/power-causes-brain-damage/528711/
a slightly less old item, in a publication not by nature inclined to be skeptical of “power” or “scale”:
https://hbr.org/2018/02/power-can-corrupt-leaders-compassion-can-save-them
Examples in popular and research literature could be multipled.
—
I’ve come to the view that “scale” is dangerous. It’s better for society as a whole and for the people in individual enterprises of every kind, both at “low” and “high” positions within them, for there to be large numbers of small enterprises rather than very few very large enterprises.
This intuition, that high exaltation above one’s peers is bad for you, is ancient; one finds it in the OT, for example. “Pride goeth before a fall”, or “Let me not be poor, lest I steal and dishonor Your Name, and let me not be rich, lest I grow proud and forget You.” It can happen to the best of people; King David’s life-changing stumble into egregious betrayal, that brought trouble on his house to the end of his days, comes to mind.
No doubt about it. Sooner or later, most folks lean toward the bad side of power … we read about them everyday. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” certainly was true in Junior’s disturbing story … although, I think there might have been a touch of corruption in his life before he took the helm at LU.
I see two broad categories that Falwell Senior is guilty of:
– Character unbecoming of a Christian college president that he became more blatant about. It is doubtful Falwell Jr. Ever had any interest in following Christ like his father seemed to. It was more a way to make money.
– Conflict of interest financially while being president of a nonprofit institution Including nepotism with Falwell’s family being on Liberty University’s payroll. Who know how much he and his family made due to this and doubt we ever will.
“It’s not so much that Power Corrupts — Power attracts the already-Corrupt and the Easily Corrupted.”
— Frank Herbert, author of Dune (from memory)
“ALMOST”?
In a lot of criminal cases, the sheer Thrill of pushing the envelope is what blows everything sky-high. “Almost getting caught” while Getting Away With It over and over again is Quite the Thrill, and you KNOW you’ll NEVER blow your next Saving Throw.