All Sorts of Links Surrounding the Church, the Pandemic, and Depression

 

The Waterfall Nebula NASA

Saving a life just got much more important than savouring a lifestyle.” ― Amit Kalantri,


My daughter is doing well after being treated for an unknown sinus/bacterial/viral infection.

She finished her Z-Pak and is feeling better and is back at work. They did not do a COVID test on her because the test is still not generally available and she got better.  Thank you for your prayers.

In the meantime, we were due to meet her boyfriend at Easter which will not happen. However, he was a chief support to her during her illness, staying with her to make sure she was safe. His actions during this time means he has passed the mom test with flying colors.

Julie Roys exposed a pastor who told his staff not to tell members about a COVID-19 outbreak.

Pastor of Chicago Megachurch Tells Staff to Keep an Outbreak of COVID-19 Among Pastors & Staff Secret

The lead pastor of Calvary Church of Naperville—a megachurch in the Chicago suburbs with an attendance around 6,000— this week told his staff to keep secret news that an assistant pastor had tested positive for COVID-19. Calvary Lead Pastor Martyn Sloan also instructed his staff not to tell anyone that the assistant pastor’s wife and son, who’s also a pastor at the church, were having symptoms.

This is according to two emails leaked to me earlier this week by a staff member who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of losing his job.

Pastor arrested in Florida for refusing to shut his megachurch for meetings.

Police arrest Florida pastor for holding church services despite stay-at-home order

Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne said he wouldn’t close the doors of his Tampa, Florida, megachurch until the End Times begin. The police weren’t willing to wait that long.
On Monday, Florida sheriff’s deputies arrested the evangelical pastor, who has continued to host large church services despite public orders urging residents to stay home to help contain the spread of the novel coronavirus.

Hint: Read the comments by the true believers.

Wade Burleson responds to Mark Dever’s (9 Marks) refusal to stream services during this pandemic.

Some Baptists More Roman Catholic than Baptist?

On March 20, 2020, during the midst of a global pandemic, Roman Catholic Pope Francis issued the following proclamation.
“People who cannot get to confession because of the coronavirus lockdown or another serious reason can go to God directly (without confessing to a priest), be specific about their sins, request pardon and experience God’s loving forgiveness,”
It is amazing how a global epidemic has a way of exposing doctrinal errors.

…But then Mark goes on to say that there will be no on-line worship services, nor will there be any on-line ministry by Capitol Hill Baptist Church during the Covid-19 crisis because…
“A video of a sermon is not a substitute for a covenanted congregation assembling together and all the various means of God’s grace in that. I think it would be healthier to respect God’s strange providence in a period of abstinence from meeting together.” (Mark Dever, March 13, 2020)
Allow me to translate.
“God’s grace is only imparted as you gather in a covenant congregation to receive instruction from those men set aside (“ordained”) for your oversight. It’s better to abstain from going online for your spiritual encouragment than to risk minimizing the spiritual authority that God has placed over you (i.e. “pastors/priests”).

Yikes!

FDA approves use of hydroxychloriquine for COVID-19: My thoughts

Let me give you some insider information. There are doctors in the US who are taking hydroxychloriquine asa a prophylaxis as they treat patients with COVID. Today, the FDA approved the use of this drug (and its cousin, chloroquine) for the treatment for the disease.

FDA Approves Anti-Malarial Drugs Chloroquine And Hydroxychloroquine For Emergency Coronavirus Treatment

  • The Department of Health and Human Services said Sunday hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine products can “be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with Covid-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible.”
  • HHS said Germany’s Sandoz has already given 30 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to the Strategic National Stockpile, the federal government’s supply of medical supplies for public health emergencies, while Bayer has donated 1 million doses of chloroquine.
  • The agency is fast-tracking a process that usually takes years while the FDA conducts clinical trials in New York, a hotspot for the virus.
  • HHS said the emergency authorization was issued because the potential benefits of the product outweigh the risks and acknowledged that “anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients, but “clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

Let me say a few things about this. Hydroxychloroquine has been around since 1955. This means we have 60 years of safety data. There are few drugs that you take today that have that much safety history behind them. Therefore, one can be fairly comfortable with the safety end of things.

I worked for Glaxo for a short time. All drugs go through years of testing-the best being double blind, prospective studies. On this blog you may often hear my disparage *anecdotal* experience. Those are good reports but they can be biased.

However, this is a unique time in history. We have a pandemic and we do not have time to do the years of studies. Therefore, it is wise to look at the the anecdotal experiences and set up quick studies, knowing that this drug is a very safe drug to begin with.

However, no one should take these drugs without being overseen by MDs, PAs or NPs. They know how to monitor your health, They can ask you questions that you might not think about.There was the man who died from taking what the media first said was chloroquine. It wasn’t. It was chloroquine phosphate which is used in aquarium cleaners.

Hydroxzychloriquine is sometimes used along with a ZPak to treat coronavirus. Yes, there is the possibility of a heart issue when they are combined. This does not mean that they cannot be used together. It means the patient should be monitored carefully.

Ventricular Arrhythmia Risk Due to Hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin Treatment For COVID-19

Pay close attention to this guidance from the American College of Cardiology. If this treatment is used, it should be used under the guidance of a cardiologist. In other words, be smart.

As I said before, I have taken this drug for over 5 years for arthritis. I have had no side effects. And, if I were to be entirely truthful, I’m rather glad I am taking this drug during this time. My husband will be doing extensive work in the hospital in 2 weeks. He is planning to isolate himself in the house staying in a remote room because I am immunosuppressed due to Xeljanz which I also take for my arthritis.

Depression and suicide may rise during pandemic.

Two senior cadets, among 1,000 seniors isolated at the Air Force Academy, died by suicide within days

Two deaths of cadets by suspected suicide since Thursday at the Air Force Academy, where 1,000 seniors are the only students on any military campus in the country amid the COVID-19 pandemic, has rattled the service from senior leadership to its trainees.

The Air Force’s top civilian and military brass rushed to the academy on Monday to reassure cadets and steer the service through the turbulence of a global crisis and tragedies close to home.

Unlike the Army and Navy, the Air Force has kept cadets on campus – socially distant in single rooms, away from their roommates – since the coronavirus began upending military and civilian life earlier this month.

Coronavirus outbreak raises threats to mental health

Suicide hotlines across the country are reporting new increases in the number of calls they are fielding since the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak and new social distancing requirements that are keeping people apart.

…In Boston, a help line run by the nonprofit group Samaritans said it received about 350 calls a day over the last week, a hundred more calls than are typical on a given day. A spokeswoman at the national Crisis Text Line told the Boston Globe they handled 6,000 conversations last week, about twice as many as usual

This is a hard time for all of us. For some of us, depression can be overwhelming. Please reach out to friends, family and professionals if you are feeling overwhelmed.

Here is the National Prevention of Suicide website and phone

1-800-273-8255

 

Comments

All Sorts of Links Surrounding the Church, the Pandemic, and Depression — 118 Comments

  1. I just finished the first link by Julie Roys. The update makes everything so much more….I don’t know. Heartbreaking? I feel really sad at the response from some people in the church (including local friends) that say if we have enough faith, we are safe from coved-19. I think that may contribute to some churches still not taking this seriously.

  2. The true nature/character of a 501c entity will become clear during this period. For those with eye that really “see”, organizations that are really “Christ like” will be apparent. Hint: if they are asking for $$$ before they ask about you and tour family, they are telling you something..

  3. Wade Burleson poses a relevant question: ‘Some Baptists more Roman Catholic than Baptist?’

    It got me thinking about the New Calvinist/YRR movement’s propensity to fill the coffers with conference fees, book sales, etc, its penchant for monetising dispensation of grace by its celebrity leaders. The movement draws in funds and adulation from followers all over the world.

    Apparently it was Martin Luther’s calling out of dishonest gain through monetisation of Roman Catholic religion that helped to kick start the Reformation, so it is ironic that that new ‘Reformed’
    religion has fallen into the same error.

    Having said that, I don’t yet see an accumulation of wealth and splendour equivalent to that found in the Vatican – that takes centuries of accumulation from all over the world!

    Incidentally, if you haven’t yet seen Netflix movie ‘The Two Popes’ it is well worth a watch.

  4. My niece works in mental health. Yesterday she said that her organization is getting loads of phone calls (the place she works connects people with mental health services). I also see a counselor and I wonder who is helping the helpers?

  5. Proof once again, that just because you are “spiritual” doesn’t mean you are necessarily smart. Some of the least discerning human beings I have met in my long life have been church folks, both in the pulpit and in the pew.

  6. Back before various (small, in comparison to coronavirus) physical ailments sidelined me, I picketed a church near my house. I first started out for another reason (not important) but continued because they act just like a cult.

    This church is a “Baptist” church of the Reformed variety. They claim to follow the London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689. They are also very active online, with a number of video series and podcasts. They are elder-led and while their most prominent elder is one Jeff Durbin, the other elder you may have heard of is James White.

    Up until this past weekend, they met near me on Sunday afternoons. However, apparently the church they rented from, a conservative Presbyterian church, shut down the entire building. Reading between the lines, I got the impression that the Presbys were just not interested in becoming a coronavirus Petri dish.

    Now, as I said, these people have a social media presence. They have podcasts, they have videos. Did they put their church services online? Why no! They found an Evangelical Free Church that is still meeting and they moved there. By the way, this new church is 36 miles away. (For those of you in the Phoenix area, that’s basically moving from Stapley and Brown in Mesa to 35th and Greenway on the west side of Phoenix.)

    That would be disturbing enough if James White hadn’t decided that he was going to be a jerk about government orders to shelter in place (quoting from one of his tweets):

    “Big Brother just cares for you and will do the best thing for you. Trust us. We are benign and loving and kind. We just want to tuck you into bed at night. Obey us, or we will crush you…with a smile.”

    What I discovered, upon looking into this further, is that some parts of Calvinista Twitter have decided that “forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” is more important than following governmental authorities (Romans 13). Now, I am not a blind follower of the government. In fact, I am extremely critical of our governor, who implemented a shelter in place order that leaves golf courses and hair salons as “essential.” But what has become clear is that people like James White are just anti-government in general, in other words, antinomian. In fact, it’s almost as if whatever “the government” proposes is automatically wrong.

    So when health authorities say that social distancing and a lockdown will slow the spread of coronavirus, and the governmental authorities put that into effect, these guys, because they know oh so much better than the authorities, will continue to defy lockdown orders, because (this week’s excuse) “forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.”

    Churches likes James’ and Jeff’s need to have church every Sunday. They need to have a three-hour meeting because that’s how they enforce conformity on their people. This is how they tell who is truly faithful. They make a point of telling sick people to stay away, but given that coronavirus can be asymptomatic or you may not recognize the symptoms, there’s no way to know that someone isn’t spreading in the congregation. The story of the Skagit Valley Chorale is instructive here:

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

    (tl;dr: There were no sick people in their county at the time of the choir practice. Nobody looked like they were sick. Most of the choir got coronavirus and two people died.)

    I asked James yesterday on Twitter if he really wanted to be in the same group as Rodney Howard-Browne. I got no response.

    I’m just going to mention the latest conspiracy theory: “film your hospital”. People are going out and filming their hospitals, as if no commotion in the street around the hospital is the equivalent of what’s going on inside. In fact, given the lockdown orders, I expect it. These “film your hospital” people are, IMHO, disgusting.

  7. Todd: Brown if a fraud. I feel sorry for those being duped by him.

    Brown’s “Holy” Laughter movement was strange … it was easy for him to dupe those folks – many of them were dupes to begin with.
    Pentecostal ranks are full of folks waiting for a genuine supernatural experience and, sadly, too easily fall for charlatans who pedal it. Their hearts are right – all believers should long for a genuine move of God (we need it) – but where discernment is lacking, the enemy sets up a counterfeit camp. Brown laughed all the way to the bank during his first appearance in the Christian Industrial Complex and is still trying to cash in – now at the expense of the health of his followers.

  8. I’m no fan of Rodney Howard-Browne but I’m wondering who was engaged in the greater publicity ploy: a self-promoting preacher or a sheriff running for re-election.

    While most churches have either switched to online services or cancelled services altogether, I also believe state and local officials may have gone too far in their restriction. Perhaps that’s because I’m now carrying in my car a letter from the CEO of the hospital contractor for whom I work stating that I’m an essential employee at an essential business and to please let me pass. That’s in case the police stop me for being on the road after the governor of Virginia issued a stay-at-home order yesterday.

  9. Daisy:
    Pastor: If You Have Faith in God, He’ll Multiply Your Toilet Paper Rolls
    https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/03/29/pastor-if-you-have-faith-in-god-hell-multiply-your-toilet-paper-rolls/

    This is the same Megapastor who got arrested in Tampa for packing his mega during the shutdown. He uploaded pics of his four-figure packed turnout online, county sheriff saw the pics on the Web, sheriff went through the ceiling, Superapostle got jugged.

  10. Sjon: The Two Popes’ it is well worth a watch.

    I really enjoyed that documentary. I was under the impression that the two of them had some serious differences

  11. Dr. Oz on Fox News just said chloroquine phosphate is “promising”. This is what you said is the wrong drug. Somebody tell Dr. Oz!

  12. Ava Aaronson: And the “Christian” university president who put his institution back in session face-to-face, and called students & staff back to campus?

    Looks like Jerry Falwell Jr. is solely responsible for shutting down all in-person higher education throughout Virginia. Granted, the sensible colleges were way ahead of him, but at least they had the luxury of holding tiny field seminars or labs for desperate seniors. Until yesterday.

    “In move likely aimed at Liberty University, on-campus teaching halted”

    RICHMOND, Va. — Virginia’s governor has ordered all higher education institutions to stop any in-person instruction amid the coronavirus pandemic.

    The move is likely directed at Liberty University. Gov. Ralph Northam announced the policy Monday at a news conference.

    The evangelical college in Lynchburg led by President Jerry Falwell Jr. has faced intense criticism over its decision to welcome students back to campus last week after the end of their spring break.

    The vast majority of classes have been moved online, but the university has said publicly that in-person instruction was necessary for a few select courses. A spokesman said he couldn’t immediately comment on Northam’s order.

    https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/education/in-move-likely-aimed-at-liberty-university-on-campus-teaching-halted/291-f9243328-b978-4112-ae68-a144dec85c0a

  13. Todd:
    Brown if a fraud. I feel sorry for those being duped by him. In this case it could be deadly.

    https://youtu.be/GD8XWhkFC50

    So here’s a description of what his meetings looked like in remote northern Canada — with a nice rebuttal from the Anglican Bishop of the Arctic who clearly is not a fan. This stuff sounds like every Spiritually abusive cliche in the book:

    https://nunatsiaq.com/stories/article/conspiracy-theorizing-megachurch-preacher-visits-nunavut/

  14. singleman: Perhaps that’s because I’m now carrying in my car a letter from the CEO of the hospital contractor for whom I work stating that I’m an essential employee at an essential business and to please let me pass. That’s in case the police stop me for being on the road after the governor of Virginia issued a stay-at-home order yesterday.

    The letter is a good precaution, but people are allowed to drive to and from work. It looks like Gov. Northam has issued two orders to give people clarity. Here’s a link to Order 53, issued yesterday: https://www.governor.virginia.gov/media/governorvirginiagov/executive-actions/EO-53-Temporary-Restrictions-Due-To-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf

    An order 55 came out today in Virginia. It’s less detailed, but I didn’t try to compare the two in detail.

    I think all the governors and mayors nationwide just want people not to congregate in large groups for the next 10 weeks or so, depending on local risks. That guy who built more than one public bonfire was begging for trouble. Folks who are going to work, or driving to the local trails to hike, are unlikely to face (much) official challenge.

  15. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I’m just going to mention the latest conspiracy theory: “film your hospital

    I have not heard this but wow! Most hospitals are screening entry, sending anyone home who can work from home, not allowing visitors, doing telegraph, etc. what is it they think these videos will tell them?

  16. singleman: I’m no fan of Rodney Howard-Browne but I’m wondering who was engaged in the greater publicity ploy: a self-promoting preacher or a sheriff running for re-election.

    Same spirit, just different manifestation.

  17. singleman:
    By the way, I like Wade Burleson’s response to Mark Dever.

    I didn’t love the knock at Catholics who are doing the right thing, though.

  18. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: “forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.”

    of course, the second part of that text is, “but encourage one another to love and good deeds, and all the more as you see the day approaching.”

    A few thoughts:

    * in the present context, avoiding neighbors in order to not be part of a chain of transmission that will kill some of the people in the chain strikes me as a very concrete expression of “love and good deeds”. And there are numerous other concrete expressions, none of which are well served by gatherings, in a time of contagion, for doctrinal instruction or social control

    * in the original context of that text, the Hebrew recipients of that general epistle could see “the day” approaching. They could read “the signs of the times” of which Jesus had spoken, portending a war that Israel would lose, with massive loss of life.

    We are not facing the same crisis they faced. Our adaptations, as followers of Jesus, to the crises of our time may not look exactly the same as theirs. People who insist that they must are misreading and misusing the Scriptures, and should not be surprised if God allows them to suffer (Pv 22:3) the consequences of their folly.

  19. Friend: Folks who are going to work, or driving to the local trails to hike,

    People are crowding the popular hiking trails here though which is a problem. Just because you are outside doesn’t mean you need to be in large groups! They’re going to get the parks shut down

  20. Godith: Dr. Oz on Fox News just said chloroquine phosphate is “promising”. This is what you said is the wrong drug. Somebody tell Dr. Oz!

    That is not what he actually said. It’s what the slides showed. Looks to me like bad slide quality control. Dangerous mistake.

  21. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I’m just going to mention the latest conspiracy theory: “film your hospital”. People are going out and filming their hospitals, as if no commotion in the street around the hospital is the equivalent of what’s going on inside.

    My daughter, who is an ICU nurse confirms this. There is no activity in parking lots because visitors are not allowed and elective procedures have been cancelled. There is no reason for parking lots to be full.

  22. singleman: I’m no fan of Rodney Howard-Browne but I’m wondering who was engaged in the greater publicity ploy: a self-promoting preacher or a sheriff running for re-election.

    It struck me as odd that a man who was arguably recklessly endangering human life was released back into the community on a small bond. He should have been held without bail in order to protect his parishioners from exposure to the virus at future meetings.

    So yes, I think that there might be something else going on.

  23. I would suggest being careful of thinking those two drugs are useful for protection against coronavirus. For a good idea of what drugs are being looked at and progress on figuring out if they are useful, I suggest reading https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/ Derek Lowe is a pharmaceutical drug researcher with a very good (and interesting blog). BTW, the “things I will not work with” section is good reading.

  24. Friend: The letter is a good precaution, but people are allowed to drive to and from work. It looks like Gov. Northam has issued two orders to give people clarity. Here’s a link to Order 53, issued yesterday: https://www.governor.virginia.gov/media/governorvirginiagov/executive-actions/EO-53-Temporary-Restrictions-Due-To-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf

    An order 55 came out today in Virginia. It’s less detailed, but I didn’t try to compare the two in detail.

    I hope you’re right, but it wouldn’t surprise me if more restrictions are imposed. I was also hoping to take some supplies this coming weekend to a friend who’s homebound for health reasons not having to do with COVID-19. There appears to be some question whether I can now legally do so based on the governor’s order.

    My supervisor handed me the letter when I returned yesterday evening from my meal break. He also passed on a suggestion from the manager that we drive to and from work in our full uniforms with our hospital badges on display, just in case.

  25. Brian: What was the denomination you grew up in?

    Extinct forms of Methodist and Presbyterian worship, with strong Christian Temperance influence, Billy Graham crusades on TV and in person, Kathryn Kuhlman on the radio, twice-daily reading of the KJV, thrice-weekly church, Campus Crusade for Christ, and InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

    I’m sure none of that explains my current thinking… 🙂

    What’s your background?

  26. Samuel Conner: It struck me as odd that a man who was arguably recklessly endangering human life was released back into the community on a small bond. He should have been held without bail in order to protect his parishioners from exposure to the virus at future meetings.

    They were misdemeanors, so I doubt they could keep him. But I can’t help but wonder if those laws are going to undergo big changes by the time all this is over.

  27. ishy: They were misdemeanors, so I doubt they could keep him.

    Agreed, though I wonder whether there might have been felony charges available, such as “reckless endangerment of life” or “risking a catastrophe”, both of which seem appropriate to the situation.

  28. I have one of those “necessary employee” letters I can print out if I need it. That’s because keeping a massive financial institution up and running is apparently VERY IMPORTANT. (If y’all wouldn’t get so twitchy about needing access to your money-it’s a joke, folks) That said, I’m working at home and (ugh) going on 24×7 oncall starting tonight.

    As for the arrest of Rodney Howard-Browne, I think it was necessary. People are asymptomatic for up to two weeks and are spreading the virus. They’re not practicing social distancing. And, most importantly, he’s not being persecuted. His church is being treated the same as every other religious institution. In fact, his church is being treated the same as every bowling league, sewing circle, book review club, etc.

    As for why he got arrested, I’d like to suggest that it may not have been an election thing. It may have been the public calling up and demanding something be done. I’d note that it’s not just this guy in the Tampa who has issues. Someone I know from anti-Scientology just got elected to the Clearwater (FL) city council. He’s concerned about the lack of social distancing being practiced by Scientology in Clearwater. You may hear about this situation next.

  29. singleman: I was also hoping to take some supplies this coming weekend to a friend who’s homebound for health reasons not having to do with COVID-19. There appears to be some question whether I can now legally do so

    Well, you got me curious. Here’s part of the Executive Order 55 list of valid reasons to leave home:

    “c. Taking care of other individuals, animals, or visiting the home of a family member.”

    Nobody wants a homebound person to suffer neglect. You are taking care of a homebound person. If you want some additional peace of mind, maybe also take your friend some groceries or a meal (homemade or takeout)?

    I’m grateful that you are helping our hospital system, and that you are raising these questions. Right now 32 states have some kind of stay-at-home order. We’re all reeling.

  30. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: As for why he got arrested, I’d like to suggest that it may not have been an election thing. It may have been the public calling up and demanding something be done.

    Agreed. Also, that generated a great deal of publicity, i.e., public awareness that these new restrictions have teeth. I guess that’s a win for public health. 🙁

  31. Friend,

    No, it doesn’t explain your current thinking. I was listening to Issues Ect on LPR. They were interviewing the person from Pirate Christian Radio about his transition from Church of the Nazarene to LCMS. His description of the CoN sounded like what you have described in the past.

    .Disciples of Christ, 1970’s, as a child. My mind is blank on that period of time.

    .2015 IFB

    .2018, nondenominational, pastor grew up as SBC.

    .2019, nondenominational, leans towards AoG.

    🙂

  32. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: What I discovered, upon looking into this further, is that some parts of Calvinista Twitter have decided that “forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” is more important than following governmental authorities (Romans 13).

    There has always been a tension within New Calvinist ranks, where followers must seriously consider that verse vs. “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins” (Revelation 18:4).

  33. Lea,

    Most parks in the SF Bay Area have been shut down just for this reason, as well as parking lots for beaches. Idiots just don’t get it!

  34. Weekend before last, all the parks were full of people with no social distancing. A friend of mine and I got into an argument about that. I told him it wasn’t social distancing if people are all crowded together on hiking trails. It looked like the airport!

    This past weekend, the parks are still open but parking was severely restricted. That worked to enforce some social distancing.

  35. dee: Great comment.

    dee: Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: here were no sick people in their county at the time of the choir practice. Nobody looked like they were sick. Most of the choir got coronavirus and two people died.)

    That choir is one town down the road from us, and one of the people featured in the story is my daughter’s friend and former employer. Our own community choir stopped rehearsing just a few days before. These are not “damn the torpedoes” people; they thought they were using due diligence, knowing that the virus was undoubtedly moving north toward us from Seattle and Snohomish County. One of the younger members who got sick posted a long Facebook message about ten days ago describing the precautions they took and the course of her illness since. Sobering reading. We are all neighbors, we are all connected.

  36. Ken F (aka Tweed): Words fail me:

    OK, that immoral word salad makes me angry. He’s trying to say it’s hypocritical or persecution to suspend church services while not complaining that Christian hospitals and food pantries are open. Loads of dubious claims (I don’t think there are Christian orphanages in the US). Most insidious is this idea that Christians are the ones who give, and everyone else takes. Come on! Are there not Christians among the patients in every hospital?

    However, the following paragraph is hilarious!

    By shuttering your doors, you worship your Lord and Savior, the Civil Magistrate. You bow at the altar of Caesar and lick his sandals, of whom you are not even worthy to step down and untie. You are baptized in statism and have received their mark upon your forehead. You have your god; you call him governor. Spend your time in state-mandated exile to rewrite your worship songs to the tune of Yankee Doodle. Replace your Bible with your governor’s executive orders. Replace your communion bread with government cheese and your sacraments with stimulus checks.

  37. So my comment on the Skagit Chorale infection story was in moderation and then it vanished. It’s not like you all missed out on much, but did I do something wrong?

  38. westerner,

    Well, your comment came in around 2:30 PM right after I had checked on incoming comments. Then I had to go and take care of my very elderly mother and submit my state income tax. You didn’t do anything wrong. Your comment got robo- moderated but I can’t tell you why except to say you did nothing wrong.

    I try very hard to tell people on the blog if I do not allow a comment. So, chances are if you didn’t see a note such as “1 comment not allowed* it just means I haven’t gotten around to release the velds comments.

    Did you know that my comments on this blog sometime get robo moderated as well and I have to release myself?

  39. dee,

    And then I had to release Dee’s comment. [eyeroll]

    We have a lot of things which can get a comment moderated. All of these things exist because people have done things in the past to disrupt the blog. Sorry, but not just Angels try and comment here.

    I just tossed one discussing how some herbal cure solved appetite loss, cancer, and got her husband and truck to return. Or was that a country western song?

  40. Friend,

    Everything you quoted sounds like absolute nonsense but what should we expect from these people? Their judgement is poor..I suppose it isn’t surprising it continues to be so.

    Be safe and do your best to keep others safe. Period

  41. Ken F (aka Tweed): Words fail me:

    Poets, priests and politicians
    Have words to thank for their positions
    Words that scream for your submission
    And no one’s jamming their transmission
    ‘Cos when their eloquence escapes you
    Their logic ties you up and rapes you
    — The Police – 1980 —

  42. Friend: An order 55 came out today in Virginia. It’s less detailed, but I didn’t try to compare the two in detail.

    I will extremely worried should Order 66 be issued….

  43. Jack: I will extremely worried should Order 66 be issued….

    Add another 6 to that and I’ll worry too! I gather that most orders from governors are issued during hurricanes, floods, and so on. We are living in an extraordinary moment.

  44. I had to go to Ft. Campbell today. On post, you have to show military ID for EVERYTHING! As of COVID-19, security people no longer touch ID cards. You simply hold the ID out, and they scan with a hand-held. Admission to each and every building is being very carefully monitored.
    Security is tight at the gates, too ……. not much traffic in and out ……. nothing going on at the visitors admittance station,,,,,,no military ID, no admission. Not normal, but still nothing compared to the first several months after 9/11.

    When I left post. I stopped at the Walmart in Oak Grove – just across HWY 41A from post. It’s not as crazy there as it is at Walmarts in other places. ……….. Still no toilet paper, though. That’s okay. I still have about 25 mega rolls. Ha!

  45. Linn: Idiots just don’t get it!

    This has been a problem for decades with the regular flu. Thousands of Americans die each year because nitwits don’t practice social distancing and good hygiene when they are sick. I can’t tell you how many times in my life I’ve been coughed/sneezed on in public places or how many men I’ve seen leaving restrooms without washing their hands (some on their way back to the buffet line!).

    Speaking of buffet abuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR8PBpIRwiw

  46. Max: Speaking of buffet abuse:

    I’ll betcha’ a dollar to a doughnut that the guy in the vid has no inkling whatsoever of any wrong doing or unsavory action on his part.

  47. My ex called me this morning and asked me if I still needed canned fruit for my mother. “Why yes,” I said. He called back a while later and said he’d bought me some at the supermarket and I could pick it up from his front porch after I got off work. He also said he would throw in in a loaf of rye bread from the bakery near his house. I went and picked up a whole paper grocery sack full of canned fruit and the bread. As I left, he shouted down from his balcony that the bread was “really good, tastes like real bread”. My brother was pleased and thankful.

  48. me: BTW, the “things I will not work with” section is good reading.

    Yes. For anyone even remotely interested in chemistry, it’s great. And very entertaining, too. Great writer.

  49. Samuel Conner: It struck me as odd that a man who was arguably recklessly endangering human life was released back into the community on a small bond. He should have been held without bail in order to protect his parishioners from exposure to the virus at future meetings.

    Jails are a dangerous place to be right now, in terms of the virus. Most locations are trying to keep people out as much as possible.

  50. Friend: By shuttering your doors, you worship your Lord and Savior, the Civil Magistrate. You bow at the altar of Caesar and lick his sandals, of whom you are not even worthy to step down and untie. You are baptized in statism and have received their mark upon your forehead. You have your god; you call him governor. Spend your time in state-mandated exile to rewrite your worship songs to the tune of Yankee Doodle. Replace your Bible with your governor’s executive orders. Replace your communion bread with government cheese and your sacraments with stimulus checks.

    How ridiculous. It seems like anti-governmentism, not faith. Paranoid ppersecution complex. There’s no love or concern for the welfare of others. Whatsoeveryyou do for the least of these shouldn’t be spreading illness to them. They will know we are Christians by our love?

    You know, I think some people have a religious addiction and they’re fearing being cut off from their drug. Their spirituality doesn’t seem to function away from the group.

  51. Tina:
    My niece works in mental health.Yesterday she said that her organization is getting loads of phone calls (the place she works connects people with mental health services).I also see a counselor and I wonder who is helping the helpers?

    Thanks to Tina asking “who is helping the helpers?” In the last two weeks my work as a mental health therapist has moved from seeing 8 – 10 people per day in person to working from my home office and delivering therapy by telehealth. Our practice would have moved to telehealth faster if the insurance companies had more rapidly agreed to pay for telehealth; it took about 2 weeks to get their approval.

    Therapy by telehealth is not optimal. Some people struggle with the technical side of getting online to the portal and give up. My cancellation and no show rates are high because some persons don’t have a private place for us to talk; others just don’t like to talk at distance. Couples therapy is much more difficult online and trying to create rapport and build empathy with a new client is very, very trying when not in person. The isolation that clients are experiencing are worsening the symptoms of those with anxiety and depression. Couples in troubled relationships are becoming more troubled by not being able to have some time away from each other. In providing therapy in an online environment, I find myself working twice as hard to be emotionally present for my clients. As a result, by the end of the day I am exhausted. Not a complaint, just a reality about trying to do your best in a situation where it is difficult to do your best. Telehealth is helpful for client work, but it is far from optimal.

    Theologically, some of my clients are struggling with the phrase that “God is in control.” For those who take that line very literally, the question of “why COVID-19 is the will of God” is straining the meaning of their faith. For those who perceive God’s control as His loving, graceful, and empowering presence, they are seeking hope that will sustain them until the end of this difficult time. My pastoral background allows me to walk faith paths with clients who desire it; being able to uplift all also lifts my spirit.

    Well, time to start another day. New client at 8 am (CT). Prayers for all and may grace abound.

  52. SiteSeer: Paranoid ppersecution complex.

    I was laughing at the idea we were all going to get free cheese. Then a black helicopter flew over my house a dropped a pallet of Kraft Singles! The godless ran outside and formed a line with everyone six feet apart. Each took one two-pound pack.

    I knew better, and stayed indoors. That cheese is the road to perdition!

  53. Dee, You wanted links like this one, so here it is: https://www.foxnews.com/health/pennsylvania-pastor-slams-coronavirus-precautions-plans-woodstock-like-easter-gathering

    Beyond that, if you want 20/20 vision of why what is happening is happening you need to meditate on Exod. 20:20. And by meditation, do not just read it and then quickly forget what it says. Instead, ask the Holy Spirit, which is real and listening, what this means for you and for yours. Expect an answer. The H.S. does not require a middle-man who is some celebrity and/or pastor in order to give you an answer.

  54. Mr. Jesperson: if you want 20/20 vision of why what is happening is happening you need to meditate on Exod. 20:20. And by meditation, do not just read it and then quickly forget what it says. Instead, ask the Holy Spirit, which is real and listening, what this means for you and for yours. Expect an answer.

    Here’s the verse:

    Moses said to the people, ‘Do not be afraid; for God has come only to test you and to put the fear of him upon you so that you do not sin.’

    Context: God just gave Moses the Ten Commandments. God combated the sin of idolatry with a set of ideas, laws.

    I don’t see a comparison with a pandemic that crosses all ages, religions, and borders. Do you believe that God sent covid-19 to test us? If so, how? As individuals or as all humankind?

    And if God sent this pandemic, is he a god worth worshiping? Many Christians have said that this virus comes from Satan or from various evil humans. Not everyone considers it a refining fire.

  55. Mr. Jesperson: Beyond that, if you want 20/20 vision of why what is happening is happening you need to meditate on Exod. 20:20.

    That passage was very specifically given to the Israelites and not to any other nations or people groups. Why do you think it applies to this pandemic?

  56. Mr. Jesperson: Beyond that, if you want 20/20 vision of why what is happening is happening you need to meditate on Exod. 20:20.

    You have now drifted into chapter-and-verse Numerology.

  57. SiteSeer: How ridiculous. It seems like anti-governmentism, not faith. Paranoid ppersecution complex. There’s no love or concern for the welfare of others. Whatsoeveryyou do for the least of these shouldn’t be spreading illness to them. They will know we are Christians by our love?

    These are the Pulpiteers.
    You remember them?
    Remember Braxton Caner?

    P.S. The only time I have heard the word “statism” used it was by Disciples of Ayn Rand.

  58. Lea: singleman:
    By the way, I like Wade Burleson’s response to Mark Dever.

    I didn’t love the knock at Catholics who are doing the right thing, though.

    Wade’s Reformed, is he not?
    I see it as establishing Protestant Street Cred, Whore of Babylon and all that.

  59. Friend: RICHMOND, Va. — Virginia’s governor has ordered all higher education institutions to stop any in-person instruction amid the coronavirus pandemic.

    The move is likely directed at Liberty University. Gov. Ralph Northam announced the policy Monday at a news conference.

    The evangelical college in Lynchburg led by President Jerry Falwell Jr. has faced intense criticism over its decision to welcome students back to campus last week after the end of their spring break.

    COVID-19 has come to Lynchburg.
    Between half a dozen and a dozen cases have surfaced among the Liberty students who returned.
    Welcome to the next Superspreader outbreak. Just like those megas.

  60. Headless Unicorn Guy: COVID-19 has come to Lynchburg.
    Between half a dozen and a dozen cases have surfaced among the Liberty students who returned.
    Welcome to the next Superspreader outbreak. Just like those megas.

    Remember what Forrest Gump’s mom (played by Sally Field) said?
    …”Stoopid is as stoopid does”…

  61. With the Federal Reserve in the U.S. forecasting a 32% unemployment rate, 47 million, what will the impact be on Christian churches in the U.S.?

  62. On shutting down colleges, the right call isn’t easy to make. Should we keep a group of potentially infected young people together in one place or send them to lots of homes all over the place, let them be near older, more vulnerable people that might not have been exposed, and start clusters all over the county? How good is the healthcare system in each place? Can we get better social isolation in dormitories than at home? How likely is the risk of infection?

    The only thing I’m completely sure of is that we should have kept medical students, especially those about to graduate, in school. We are too likely to need them if this gets bad. Part of the response to the Spanish Flue Pandemic was to put medical students into practice in the emergency facilities.

    Also, non-commuter colleges in infection hot spots (Boston, New York City, New Orleans, etc…) should have kept their students instead of sending them home. But they were probably thinking more about their liability than about what is best for society.

  63. Friend: Most insidious is this idea that Christians are the ones who give, and everyone else takes. Come on! Are there not Christians among the patients in every hospital?

    Again, straight out of The Gospel According to Ayn Rand:
    “Makers and Takers”; “Producers and Moochers”; AKA Hosts and Parasites.

    Remember they also used the word “Statist”, which I have only heard from Randians.
    Is the Bible on the Pulpiteers’ pulpits really Atlas Shrugged?

  64. Latest COVID news is that Florida is now on shutdown (church services are an exception), Georgia just lifted the shutdown order it just issued and is back to Business as Usual, and Hobby Lobby is staying open claiming it’s “essential services” and forbidding its employees to wear masks or gloves “or the customers might feel uncomfortable”.

  65. grberry,

    Yes, those were found and donated last week. This was a stockpile made for an earlier epidemic, identified by one of the cathedral’s stone masons.

  66. Ken F (aka Tweed),

    Oh. My. Goodness.

    If Christ said that his followers would be known by their love for one another, what does this level of vitriol say about the author?

    I notice there’s now a “Publisher’s Note” to the effect that this is not directed at churches who cancelled because of “a providential hindrance due to illness rather than a government mandate.” Was this in the original article?

    The author claims that Christians give 10% of their income to support an “army of community services” such as food banks, orphanages (uh, not in the US…), and disaster relief agencies. This thinking is literally archaic. Sure, back (way back) in the day most orphanages (foster-care systems), food banks (social services systems), and disaster relief agencies were run through the church. Nowadays? The majority of the 10% of our income my family gives to our local church goes toward pastoral and staff salaries, building maintenance, and internal programs. While I have mixed feelings about this, at least I can acknowledge reality.

    What a sad little man trying to raise such a big stink. He must be feeling a little neglected.

  67. Mr. Jesperson: Beyond that, if you want 20/20 vision of why what is happening is happening you need to meditate on Exod. 20:20.

    So, how does this square with John 9:3? Or with the parents of the baby boys who were massacred by Herod; what lesson were they supposed to learn? Or Luke 13:1-5?

  68. grberry: Part of the response to the Spanish Flue Pandemic was to put medical students into practice in the emergency facilities.

    Governor Newsom (Calif.) has already done that.

  69. Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

    70 AD, in Jerusalem, the Temple is destroyed as Jesus prophesied, i.e., another diaspora. That was during New Testament times. God making direct impact on humanity didn’t stop.

  70. Headless Unicorn Guy: Latest COVID news is that Florida is now on shutdown (church services are an exception), Georgia just lifted the shutdown order it just issued and is back to Business as Usual, and Hobby Lobby is staying open claiming it’s “essential services” and forbidding its employees to wear masks or gloves “or the customers might feel uncomfortable”.

    If the allegations are true, they need to be Made to Follow Pandemic Protocols no matter how much they howl ‘persecution’ and bemoan ‘federal tyranny’.

  71. Up to now, the slogan in the UK has been: Save Lives (or a variation on that theme, involving Stay at Home, Protect the NHS, and similar).

    A week or so ago, the government here announced a 3-week lockdown followed by a review, the review being due in a little over a week. They’ll certainly announce that the lockdown will be extended to at least 3 months and possibly much longer, though they may review it after 3 months.

    I have next to no reach or influence, so “doing what I can” does not amount to much. Nevertheless, I’m doing what I can to change the slogan of “Save Lives” to “Manage the Risks”. As the weeks of lockdown turn into months, it is very likely that the lockdown itself will directly lead to deaths; through intense mental illness, the damaging effects of immobility on the elderly, wider heart problems due to lack of activity, and the well-documented impacts of poverty, unemployment and poor healthcare; as well as deaths that occur due to the delaying of operations, cancer screening and other preventative measures.

    Past a certain point, we won’t be able honestly to say nothing but “we’re saving lives” (or even the more technically accurate “we’re preventing deaths”). The reality will be: we’re making hard choices about which deaths to postpone or avert.

  72. grberry: Also, non-commuter colleges in infection hot spots (Boston, New York City, New Orleans, etc…) should have kept their students instead of sending them home. But they were probably thinking more about their liability than about what is best for society.

    Some colleges handled it poorly, especially early on. Many institutions did let students register to stay on campus if it was hard for them to return home (travel problems), or if home was worse (hot spots).

    But keeping everyone on campus is not a good solution. Dorms have tiny shared bedrooms and bathrooms. Often the windows don’t open. Try imagining a big building full of 18- to 20-year-olds with nothing to do after Zoom lectures. There are no more restaurants to hang out in, no gyms, libraries, museums, movie theaters, music venues, arenas, stadiums. Part-time jobs are few. It’s even hard to volunteer now. And they would be cut off from their parents at a time when frankly they need the support, because the college students are suffering too.

  73. Bridget: Muff Potter: Governor Newsom (Calif.) has already done that.

    I’ve been impressed with Newsom.

    Yeah. Quite a surprise that he’s rising to the occasion. Most of his career, he’s been a Good Little Party Hack for CA’s Dem machine. Maybe the guy got a clue.

    Now he needs to close the beaches completely. Beaches and hiking trails are now the only places you can get out of the house, so everybody’s congregating to them.

  74. Muff Potter: Headless Unicorn Guy: Latest COVID news is that Florida is now on shutdown (church services are an exception), Georgia just lifted the shutdown order it just issued and is back to Business as Usual, and Hobby Lobby is staying open claiming it’s “essential services” and forbidding its employees to wear masks or gloves “or the customers might feel uncomfortable”.

    If the allegations are true, they need to be Made to Follow Pandemic Protocols no matter how much they howl ‘persecution’ and bemoan ‘federal tyranny’.

    So many Christians (especially the Big Name ones) seem hell-bent on making the situation worse.

    Think after COVID burns itself out and the body count is all buried, everyone else will remember that?

    “The North Remembers.” — Game of Thrones

  75. Wild Honey: What a sad little man trying to raise such a big stink. He must be feeling a little neglected.

    He is a big John MacArthur fan.

  76. Have y’ll ever heard of Carhartt? They make rugged work clothing and outdoor wear – I shop at their outlet in Madisonville from time to time. ……… kinda pricey, but good stuff!
    Well, Mark Dever’s hometown of Madisonville (Hopkins Co., KY) not only has a Carhartt outlet, it has a Carhartt plant. The plant has converted and began making masks today to ship to COVID-19 first responders.
    Yeah, no wonder Dever left Kentucky.

  77. Headless Unicorn Guy: Now he needs to close the beaches completely. Beaches and hiking trails are now the only places you can get out of the house, so everybody’s congregating to them.

    All they need to do is hand out some twelve hundred dollar citations.
    When word gets out that the cops ain’t foolin’ about, watch how fast the beaches and hiking trails stay clear.

  78. DavidP: So here’s a description of what his meetings looked like in remote northern Canada — with a nice rebuttal from the Anglican Bishop of the Arctic who clearly is not a fan. This stuff sounds like every Spiritually abusive cliche in the book:
    https://nunatsiaq.com/stories/article/conspiracy-theorizing-megachurch-preacher-visits-nunavut/

    Thanks for the link, DavidP. I read the story and found it chilling. I also advise you read the comments. I found a comment that had the details of his home. I was able to verify the address, but it seems scheister Howard-Browne has managed to block this home and a few others listed in his name from Zillow. I wrote up a short Tweet so people can see his lavish lifestyle.
    https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1245550963269623817?s=20

  79. Todd Wilhelm: I was able to verify the address, but it seems scheister Howard-Browne has managed to block this home and a few others listed in his name from Zillow. I wrote up a short Tweet so people can see his lavish lifestyle.

    Is anyone surprised by this?

    If “Lifestyles of Rich and Famous Megapastors” was on cable, they’d never lack for material.

    P.S. Howard-Browne is now suing the county, claiming First Amendment. His lawyer is the former dean of Liberty U Law School. (Why am I not surprised?) The official story is dancing around the edges of claiming Persecution.
    https://thewayofimprovement.com/2020/04/01/rodney-howard-brownes-liberty-counsel-attorney-the-sheriff-and-hillsborough-county-will-get-a-lesson-on-the-constitution-and-discriminatory-application-of-the-law/

  80. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Have y’ll ever heard of Carhartt? They make rugged work clothing and outdoor wear – I shop at their outlet in Madisonville from time to time. ……… kinda pricey, but good stuff!

    There are more than a few of us out here who will pay a few more bucks for American made goods that can be trusted rather than settle for crapola manufactured offshore.

  81. Muff Potter,
    I have a Carhartt winter coat right now that belongs to my brother — he needs me to put a new zipper in it. I don’t look forward to the chore! Uhg.
    The coat is good quality. My brother just slammed the truck door on it and messed up the metal zipper!

  82. Muff Potter: There are more than a few of us out here who will pay a few more bucks for American made goods that can be trusted rather than settle for crapola manufactured offshore.

    And everybody shouted “AMEN and AMEN!” (or should have)

  83. Ken F (aka Tweed),

    My word, “providential hinderance”. This is exactly the same words using in my-exchurch group meetings covenant that attendees signed that we are committed to attend the meeting unless “providencially hindered”. Just reading those words, makes me anxious.

  84. Headless Unicorn Guy: Hobby Lobby is staying open claiming it’s “essential services” and forbidding its employees to wear masks or gloves “or the customers might feel uncomfortable”.

    Not any more, at least in Colorado.
    A few days ago, Colorado AG shut down Hobby Lobby as “non-essential”.
    No word on Hobby Lobby’s reaction.

    Note that the first word you associate with Hobby Lobby is CHRISTIAN(TM).
    The same word used to describe the Texas Lt Gov who said old people need to be sacrificed to COVID to keep the economy going for their descendants. CHRISTIAN(TM).

  85. Todd Wilhelm: Thanks for the link, DavidP. I read the story and found it chilling. I also advise you read the comments. I found a comment that had the details of his home. I was able to verify the address, but it seems scheister Howard-Browne has managed to block this home and a few others listed in his name from Zillow. I wrote up a short Tweet so people can see his lavish lifestyle.
    https://twitter.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1245550963269623817?s=20

    BIG McMansion on a private estate accessible only by a private road.
    Looks like he’s keeping up with the Furticks.

    And has anyone noticed that in all the pics of this ManaGAWD, he looks like a street thug gone to seed? I see the pics, I keep thinking of Luca Brasi from The Godfather.

  86. Jess: I feel really sad at the response from some people in the church (including local friends) that say if we have enough faith, we are safe from coved-19.

    And Scientology teaches Scientologists are immune to COVID-19 unless they associate with a “Suppressive Person”, i.e. an Enemy of Scientology.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-asked-the-church-of-scientology-how-theyre-combatting-coronavirus-this-is-their-wild-response?ref=home&via=twitter_page&utm_source=web_push

  87. Max: Proof once again, that just because you are “spiritual” doesn’t mean you are necessarily smart.

    All too often “spiritual” and smart are mutually exclusive, what I call “Holy Nincompoop Syndrome”.

  88. Remember Kenneth Copeland, Richest Televangelist in the World?

    Morning drive-time reported him claiming he’s curing COVID by blowing on them through the TV screen. Something to do with a Divine Wind blowing away the pestilence.

    Guy’s a cartoon of himself.