Was Satan Defeated by Holy Testosterone? Was Jesus Buff? Professor Owen Strachan Strikes Again.


NASA

“I’m sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It’s just been too intelligent to come here.” ― Arthur C. Clarke


Today is the first day of Lent and I will be going to dinner at my church (put on by the men!) and will receive ashes on my forehead at the Ash Wednesday service. Apparently, this process caused one dude on Twitter to say that this was papal claptrap and it was apparent that I was worshipping a different Christ! Poor Patrick is lost in the post-evangelical wilderness, obviously being poorly taught as to the hills that Christians should die on.

In the meantime, people ask what I’m *giving up* for Lent. A couple of years ago, I read Martin Luther’s Small Catechism. Last year I wanted to get through Called to Believe, Teach, and Confess: An Introduction to Doctrinal Theology (from a distinctly Lutheran perspective.) However, I ended up reading all the footnotes, checking all the Bible verses, and making sure I understood everything in the review and discussion sections.

So, I stopped after Chapter 6. I plan to read each day during Lent while considering how to pull together a study for people who leave broader evangelicalism for Lutheranism or for others who are wondering about the distinctives. I would like to focus on a Lutheran understanding of the Law and Gospel which has been helpful to me.

I’ve decided it is more beneficial for me to expand my knowledge during this time as opposed to giving up something. For others, to give up something might be beneficial which is great.

Owen Strachan continues to mess with the *fully man* part of Jesus

For those of you who do not know Owen Strachan, here is his bio at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

The Maine native is a graduate of Bowdoin College (A.B. in History), Southern Seminary (M.Div. in Biblical & Theological Studies), and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (Ph.D. in Theological Studies). In roles within the SBC and greater Evangelical sphere, Dr. Strachan is Senior Fellow of the Council on Biblical Manhood & Womanhood and was formerly President of CBMW, whose purpose is “to set forth the teachings of the Bible about the complementary differences between men and women, created equally in the image of God, because these teachings are essential for obedience to Scripture and for the health of the family and the church.”

He is also a contributing writer for The Gospel Coalition, a research fellow of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the SBC, and a fellow of the Center for Pastor-Theologians.
At SBTS, Dr. Strachan was director of the Carl F.H. Henry Institute for Evangelical Engagement, and at Boyce College, he served as chair of Gospel & Culture.

Did you get that? CBMW, SBTS, TGC, ERLC, etc.?  In other words, he is a through and through Calvinista. I need to use that term more. It has been determined by language experts that I am truly the first to use it in this manner. 🙂

Owen has written some unusual things through the years. Needless to say, Julie Anne Smith and I have been blocked from Owen’s Twitter feed even although I continue to follow him anonymously. (You can block me but I will find out anyway!) His pronouncements have given us much to write about through the years.

Was Jesus Buff?

On 2/24/20, my good friend, Julie Anne Smith posted Owen Strachan’s Logical Conclusion: Jesus Must Have Been Buff.

Here is Strachan’s tweet that started it all.

Please reads the full post. However, here are some of the points she made.

…Owen Strachan‘s idea of Biblical manhood does not look like what I read in the Bible. Owen and his Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood friends love to talk about male headship and men as strong spiritual leaders. But when they cross the line like Owen has in the above Tweet, it’s important to see what the Bible really says.

…To hand-select one verse that makes it look like men are supposed to be physically strong is pretty odd, especially when there are scores and scores of verses about what leadership really looks like.

One of the most common character traits I read in the Bible for both men and women is gentleness.

…Sure, it’s good for people to work out, but to make the conclusion that if men aren’t in good shape physically, they won’t be in good shape spiritually is ridiculous. This is just one more attempt to shame men into the roles that CBMW and Owen tout.

But check out this verse, from the ESV-men-approved translation which puts the emphasis on one’s spiritual life over physical life:

“For while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.” 1 Tim. 4:8

Owen Strachan and Holy Testosterone

When I saw her post being tweeted, I started to laugh. Several years ago, I wrote a post: A Complementarian Fail by CBMW’s Owen Strachan and Jason Allen: Holy Testosterone! That post got 498 comments!. But it was written about 4 years ago and when I tweeted out a link to the post, lots of people reacted.

And one wag came up with a new sola.

Sola Testosterone

Then some language buffs debated whether or not it would be better written as Sola Testosterono. 😇

I realized that many people have started following TWW in the last couple of years and  have not seen some of the more eyebrow raising posts over the last decade or so. I spent some time reviewing this post from 2016 and decided it was worth reposting. I had a really good laugh.

So, as I toodle off to participate in *papist rituals,* I hope you find this post both amusing as well as a bit concerning. What are they teaching in Reformed Baptist seminaries these days?


“Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.”-A quote from that other Calvin.

300px-IPF_World_Champion_Dean_Bowring_performing_the_three_Powerlifting_moves
Wikipedia

I frankly think this whole weird male thing started with Mark Driscoll. You surely remember this nonsense.

“In Revelation, Jesus is a pride-fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is the guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up.”

The gospel™ boys fell all over themselves trying to imitate Driscoll on the man thing. Then, they went further down the road in promoting Duck Dynasty and wrote a gazillion posts at The Gospel™ Coalition website. Some of them took to growing the beards just like some of them attempt to look like Mahaney by shaving their heads. This is redneck theology, especially when they wear camo to preach and give guns away at conferences.

They have attempted to convince us that they have a corner of gender theology market because they are Calvinistas and it has been definnitively proven by Calvinistas that they are the most theologically adept of all mankind since they can quote John Calvin and prove he had nothing to do with the murder of Michael Servetus. They even seem to channel John Calvin in how some of them speak to those of us Christians who do not agree with their take on certain theological points.

Calvin treated his critics with contempt, calling them “pigs,” “asses,” “riffraff,” “dogs,” “idiots,” and “stinking beasts.” In this vein, Calvin said this of the great Anabaptist leader, Menno Simons: “Nothing could be prouder, nothing more impudent than this donkey.”(8)

[8] Philip Schaff’s goes into this with sources in French, etc. in his History of the Christian Church, Volume VIII, p. 594ff. Schaff cites his sources. For the quote on Menno Simons, see The Secret of the Strength by Peter Hoover, p. 63; Calvin, IV, 176; HRE XII, 592.

I may not be able to quote the Institutes with wild abandon but I am perfectly capable of knowing what is baloney theology is when I see it. I do know my Bible, especially from a big picture, contextual perspective.

Which brings me to my next point.

Holy Testosterone defeated Satan says Owen Strachan.

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Well, darn! I always thought it was the divinity of Jesus, who lived a sinless life and was crucified, dead, buried, resurrected, and ascended, that defeated Satan. That’s what the Bible seems to indicate. So, where do we find mention of this holy testosterone in the Bible? Shouldn’t Strachan know where it says this in the Bible since he is the head of the Council of Biblical™ Manhood and Womanhood and claims to know the Bible? Why didn’t he quote chapter and verse?

Let me get Owen’s argument straight. If we could have extracted pure testosterone from Jesus, could we have used this in spiritual warfare?  Does this mean that testosterone is part of the full armor of God? Ephesians seems to have left this out.

14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God. (Eph 6:10-18) NIV Bible Gateway

Should there have been a second half of verse 17? You know, inject yourself with lots of testosterone to crush Satan?

Apparently those who have cojones over at CBMW are jumping on the testosterone bandwagon. According to another CBMW post that was written this month5 Key Ways to Cultivating Biblical Manhood in Your Church​ by CBMW’s Jason Allen:

Through this, the church needs to recover biblical manhood, Christian masculinity—what we might think of as sanctified testosterone.

TWW Prediction: This will become the new buzz word, following on the heals of winsome, gospel, Biblical and slander.

People were quite confused by Strachan’s original tweet.

Strachan appears to play the “I’m smarter than you, idiot” game in his response to the confusion caused by his tweet. He calls his thinking on the matter “rather obvious” because Jesus was a man, not some genderless floozy.

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More discussion

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And hilarity ensued. (I choked on my coffee today.)

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(If you didn’t get it, focus on the word *penal.*)

Was redemption really all about the testosterone of Jesus?

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This is an important observation. Jesus had some estrogen as well as testosterone.  How do we know for sure that it wasn’t the small amount of estrogen in his body that caused the defeat of Satan? Is it written somewhere in the Bible? I wonder if Strachan and BFFs did any reading on the subject or the endocrine system.

According to Testosterone and Estrogen Balance in Men

Testosterone is for men, and estrogen is for women, right? For the most part yes, but there is estrogen found in all men, and women do need small amounts of testosterone. There is, however, a growing need to understand the effects of estrogen in men. Like all hormones, estrogen needs to be kept in balance in both men and women. Chronic health conditions are more likely to occur in men as a result of estrogen levels becoming too high.

Testosterone and estrogen are actually very closely related in the body. A look at their chemical structure reveals only subtle differences. Yet, the differences of the effects of these two hormones on the body are substantial. Testosterone affects nearly every cell in the male body. It improves muscle mass and bone density and will also have a positive affect on the heart, brain and blood vessels. Estrogen is actually made from the circulating testosterone in the body by an enzyme called aromatase. As men age, they tend to make increasing levels of estrogen with decreased production of testosterone. Estrogen can be made in the liver, muscle and brain, as well as the fat cells.

In fact, every last cell in the body of Jesus has his male genetic code. One could just as easily conjecture that it was his pancreas or his bunion that defeated Satan.

Unfortunately, Strachan appears to be treading into Joseph Smith territory.

“…it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God…These are incomprehensible ideas to some; but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.”

Jesus has two natures and this is the divine mystery. He is fully man and fully God. It was the divine nature of God that allowed Jesus to live a sinless life, not his testosterone. Jesus was not born with a sin nature unlike the rest of us.

Where does it say any of this in Scripture?

This commenter seem to have a better grasp of the subject than Strachan and she has a lower testosterone level than he does.

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What is the deal behind this incessant clamoring to make men so different than women that causes them to write this weird stuff?

It seems to me that these men are so insecure with their masculinity that they must attempt to read into Scripture what is not there. Why? Did these guys get beat up when they were little kids and are now trying pretend that they are bad*** dudes? We may be different in our biology, but men and women experience similar longings and concerns. CBMW appears to be trying to convince us that men and women are so different that we cannot experience similar feelings.

Here is an example.

In the CBMW post, there is an effort to show the distinction between men and women by feelings.

Men long for a higher calling. They need a higher purpose. Our hearts leap within us when we see exhibitions of courage, when we hear tales of heroism, when we witness valiant sacrifice. Give men a grander vision for their life, one marked by service, leadership, and devotion to great and noble ends in the Kingdom of Christ.

Do women not wish a grander vision for their life. Do they not want to strive towards a higher calling? Should not the life of women be marked by service? Do women have no interest in devoting their lives to doing great things for Christ?

The answer is obvious. Both Strachan and Allen get an *F* for their poor understanding of basic biology and an inability to provide us with Biblical texts which back up their assertions. This was a *complementarian fail* and some might say it was an impotent argument.


Sola Testosterone!!!

Comments

Was Satan Defeated by Holy Testosterone? Was Jesus Buff? Professor Owen Strachan Strikes Again. — 148 Comments

  1. Hey, Dee, if I’m a wag (sola testosterona!), can I be an official Wag of Stan (Wag o’ Stan) (TM)? 🙂

  2. Every time I see a post like this I wonder if they have been watching too many Vikings episodes or have been out howling at the moon. Maybe both? Maybe they frolic with the barbarians from the old Capital One commercials? Too much mead?
    If I attended a church where the pastor started preaching like this, I’d be out the nearest exit.

  3. ” . . . some might say it was an impotent argument.”
    Dee, I am dying laughing at this absolutely perfect comment!

  4. “Calvinista. I need to use that term more. It has been determined by language experts that I am truly the first to use it in this manner.” (Dee)

    One awesome aspect of this word is it has a feminine ending. It’s a perfect fit for men whose fragile masculinity is threatened by strong women.

  5. “Then some language buffs debated whether or not it would be better written as Sola Testosterono.” (Dee)

    But the endings need to match,so it would have to be Solo Testosterono. On a related note, I have seen some Calvinistas attempt to describe the difference between “Sola” Scriptura and “Solo” Scriptura. All that argument does is show they have no understanding of how Latin works.

  6. “…and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Strachan).

    When they have to use formal heresy to make their point it kind of tells us that they need to re-think their theology. This statement of his appears close to modalism, which was a formally condemned heresy. Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed. And to suggest that Jesus is no longer human violates the Chalcedonian Creed. But other than that…

  7. Since this is about Calvinstas, I don’t think it is too far off topic to point out some recent Calvinista bromance activity.

    Earlier this week Kevin DeYoung posted an article on TGC entitled “7 Questions to Ask in Evaluating Online Pundits.” Besides the fact that it is one of many recent “do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do” articles posted by TGC, it includes this statement in the section warning against listening to full-time bloggers:

    Tim Challies, for example, has proven to be one the most trustworthy and reliable voices on the internet… he’s the exception that proves the rule.”

    Predictably, Challies returned the favor this morning by including this statement with his reposting of DeYoung’s article:

    Kevin DeYoung knocks this one out of the park.

    I suppose he had a good vantage point from his position out in left field.

    You can read it here:
    https://www.challies.com/a-la-carte/a-la-carte-february-26-6/

  8. Rather than try to scare Satan with their holy testosterone, the Calvinistas have chosen to crush the heads of women. They are too wimpy to take on the devil, so they take it out on female believers. Some day they will meet their macho-man Jesus and discover how foolish they were on earth.

  9. Cobber the Okie (@inkslinger2076):
    Hey, Dee, if I’m a wag (sola testosterona!), can I be an official Wag of Stan (Wag o’ Stan) (TM)?

    You are officially admitted into the male auxiliary of the Daughters of Stan! And since you are a Wag of Stan™ you are nearby dubbed the official leader of the pack.

  10. Ken F (aka Tweed): recent “do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do” articles posted by TGC, it includes this statement in the section warning against listening to full-time bloggers:

    Tim Challies, for example, has proven to be one the most trustworthy and reliable voices on the internet… he’s the exception that proves the rule.”

    In other words, read only what we approve. The New Calvinist elite are getting worried … influencing their followers to tune out the “gossip” is a desperate attempt to keep the movement moving.

  11. I entered the TWW comment stream laughing my head off about Dee being a “daughter of Stan”, so I’m not a humorless prig. However, to even entertain this drivel is more than I can stand today. As we enter the Lenten season, preparing for the observance of the death and resurrection, I just can’t bear the trivialization by Strachan and his crowd. I’m still living and breathing because of the redemption and love of Jesus for His children. I weep for what the Strachan’s of the world have done to my brothers and sisters.

  12. Believer: As we enter the Lenten season, preparing for the observance of the death and resurrection, I just can’t bear the trivialization by Strachan and his crowd.

    Indeed, such things distract us from focusing on the sacrifice of Jesus during this season. Whose plan would that be?

  13. Ken F (aka Tweed): Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed.

    Fair question:
    How so?
    If Jesus of Nazareth is fully human, and that includes having a real flesh and blood body, how does this truism violate the Nicene Creed?

  14. “…and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Strachan).

    When they have to use formal heresy to make their point it kind of tells us that they need to re-think their theology.This statement of his appears close to modalism, which was a formally condemned heresy. Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed.And to suggest that Jesus is no longer human violates the Chalcedonian Creed. But other than that…

    I think that quote Dee gave was from Smith, not Strachan, pointing out that the latter’s overemphasis on the manhood of Jesus was similar to the Mormon teaching.

  15. Has Strachan never heard of context? 1 Corinthians is written to “all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (verse 1:2). In other words… not just the menfolk.

  16. Linn: If I attended a church where the pastor started preaching like this, I’d be out the nearest exit.

    If it happened in the conservative Baptist world I live in, everybody in the church would think I was possessed. I’d be rollin’ around in the floor underneath the pews …….. laughing like a rabid hyena!

  17. 20John: I think that quote Dee gave was from Smith, not Strachan, pointing out that the latter’s overemphasis on the manhood of Jesus was similar to the Mormon teaching.

    Yes, you are correct. My bad. So Strachan has not strayed as far as I had thought. Still, he was one of those pushing the ESS heresy a few years ago.

  18. Muff Potter: If Jesus of Nazareth is fully human, and that includes having a real flesh and blood body, how does this truism violate the Nicene Creed?

    The Nicene Creed says the Son became incarnate, not the Father or the Spirit. On one person of the Trinity took on human flesh.

  19. Believer: As we enter the Lenten season, preparing for the observance of the death and resurrection….

    Do you know… I’m glad you brought that up, because it had completely escaped me this year. Yesterday was indeed Ash Wednesday, so I’m a day late to begin any kind of Lent thing.

    I, too, have no interest today in trying to find any comedy in the subject of the post. Instead, I shall ponder the long-standing Lenten tradition, and how I might engage with it this year.

  20. dee,

    Oddly enough, “WAG” is an acronym as well as a word over here in Blighty. It was originally used in its plural form, WAGs, meaning “wives and girlfriends”, in the context of (if memory serves) the England mens’ fitba’ team. It kind of stuck, because top fitba’ players are all millionaires and tend to have celebrity partners.

    The male equivalent, then, would be “HABs”. I don’t know how far down that road we want to go, though!

  21. dee:

    dee:

    Wow, I’m a Daughter of Stan by proxy! It’s an honor.

    Apologies for my lack of Latin knowledge…although I find it amusing to use the feminine form to give this pitiful concept the ridicule it deserves. As my dad used to say, “Real men don’t worry about being real men.”

  22. Ken F (aka Tweed): I have seen some Calvinistas attempt to describe the difference between “Sola” Scriptura and “Solo” Scriptura.

    Reminds me of some yelling preacher I heard at boy scout summer camp in the late Sixties. His high-volume sermon was entirely about how Christ’s Resurrection body was “FLESH AND BONE! NOT FLESH AND BLOOD!” That’s why I remember it after 50 years, and I still don’t understand what he was saying.

  23. 20John: When they have to use formal heresy to make their point it kind of tells us that they need to re-think their theology.This statement of his appears close to modalism, which was a formally condemned heresy. Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed.

    I remember how both Joseph Smith and the Dake who did Dake’s Annotated Bible both “attributed flesh to the Father”. Though Dake did Old Joe one better – to him, it was “Spiritual Flesh” and the Holy Spirit had it too. (Three “Spiritual Bodies” sitting on three Thrones on a planet named Heaven somewhere in the northern sky. I am not making that up. Those were Weird times, Harry.)

  24. I hope to live long enough to see the New Calvinist youth movement and all its aberrations fade into church history. It’s as if they look for leaders who sensationalize Scripture (at the expense of accuracy) to “preach to men” (as Chandler likes to say).

  25. And now for Something Completely Different:

    Has anyone else noticed that “Flesh to the Father” and “Solo Testerono” would not sound out-of-place on a list of Weird Band Names?

  26. Ken F (aka Tweed): One awesome aspect of this word is it has a feminine ending. It’s a perfect fit for men whose fragile masculinity is threatened by strong women.

    “CON LAS CALVINISTAS!
    DO THE HARLEM SHAKE!”

    (With every Harlem Shaker in the video behind a pulpit.)

  27. 20John: Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed.

    If left unchecked, the New Calvinist movement will lead to antinomianism. Driscoll, MacDonald, Tullian and others were well on their way in that direction before they fell from “grace.”

  28. Max: Whew! Sounds like the university had/has some bad-boys going on that took advantage of their Christian “liberty” …

    Some bad ones and some really dumb ones…

    I tended to encounter the dumb ones, but they were fun to mess with…

  29. Max,

    “If left unchecked, the New Calvinist movement will lead to antinomianism.”
    ++++++++++++++

    i’ll bet dancing, too!

  30. “Men today are often soft, weak, passive, unprotective.

    But physical discipline is key for men. Hear Paul: “I batter my body and make it my slave” (1 Cor 9:27).

    Christic manhood is protective, sharp, watchful.

    The man who is willfully soft physically is often soft spiritually.”
    ++++++++++++++++
    .
    .
    “christic”…. more name-dropping with silly important-sounding words.

    his tweet is dripping with overcompensating.

    “protective, sharp, watchful” — sounds like any normal, regular woman to me. (no ‘christic’ required).

    (kind of funny)

    sorry, owen — you can batter yourself silly, but you’ll never match a woman’s intuitive multi-tasking ability to be aware of multiple things at the same time.

  31. Ken F (aka Tweed): The Nicene Creed says the Son became incarnate, not the Father or the Spirit. On one person of the Trinity took on human flesh.

    But then we have this from the prophet Isaiah:

    “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

    So which is it?
    I think Lewis Carroll had the best answer when he wrote:

    “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less. ‘ ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things. ‘ ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

  32. Headless Unicorn Guy: That’s why I remember it after 50 years, and I still don’t understand what he was saying.

    He probably had no idea what he was saying either, other than to advance a certain ideology that he was also taught, one that cannot be questioned under pain of being consigned to flames of woe upon death of the physical body.

  33. elastigirl: “The man who is willfully soft physically is often soft spiritually.” (Owen Strachan)

    He shouldn’t talk about John Piper like that!

  34. ishy: This is one of the weirder Baptist pastor arrested stories:

    http://www.bpnews.net/54375/louisiana-pastor-arrested-after-interstate-shooting

    From the article: “Louisiana pastor Christopher “Checkerz” Williams was arrested Feb. 11 after allegedly firing a handgun at an 18-wheeler in a road-rage incident on Interstate 10 in St. James Parish … A spokesperson for the North American Mission Board (NAMB) confirmed to Baptist Press that Williams is a NAMB missionary in partnership with the Louisiana Baptist Convention.”

    Sounds like this Southern Baptist church planter needs to work harder on controlling his holy testosterone! Whew! In its scurry to plant 1,000 churches per year (= plant reformed theology), NAMB needs to be a little more careful who it partners with. Makes you wonder about how many other young rebels have been turned loose as “lead pastors” on the SBC in recent years.

  35. Max,

    “The ugliest sight to behold on planet earth is a Southern Baptist attempting to dance! It’s painful to watch.”
    ++++++++++

    ooohhh, christopher guest, where are you? (please don’t retire!)

    the spoof-parody-mockumentary would write itself!

    if you thought rock bands, dog shows, folk music, and the movie industry were teaseworthy for laughs, the queen mutha’ of teaseworthy is waiting for you!

  36. Muff Potter,

    ‘n’…. does n have an absolute value or is it up for grabs? (like, owen might say n=0)

    (i might as well learn something about math today. could make working out a carpool easier, you never know)

  37. “No Christic Required”

    the name for Christopher Guest’s next mockumentary. (spinal tap, but evangelical)

    or the bumpersticker i’m going to have printed up. anyone want to place an advance order?

    the t-shirt comes next.

  38. Max: elastigirl: “The man who is willfully soft physically is often soft spiritually.” (Owen Strachan)
    He shouldn’t talk about John Piper like that!

    He didn’t say anything about being soft in the head. But, he’s probably good at ignoring his own shortcomings when he sees them in others.

  39. elastigirl,

    eugene levy: the paige patterson-type

    jennifer coolidge: the dorothy patterson-type

    bob balaban: the john pipe-type

    catherine o’hara: the mary kassian-type

    christopher guest:

    michael mckeen:

    harry shearer:

    john michael higgins:

    don lake: the sane one, who’s retained his objectivity and sees it all for what it is

  40. Muff Potter: But then we have this from the prophet Isaiah:

    “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

    So which is it?
    I think Lewis Carroll had the best answer when he wrote:

    “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less. ‘ ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things. ‘ ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

    This is some interesting reading:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

  41. Amazing. ‘Guess they’ve forgotten Genesis 3:15. The seed of the woman crushes the serpent’s head. The Seed of the Woman not sola sancta testosteronum. Or Isaiah 53 “he had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.” Or Matthew 12, Jesus said “whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother”?

    If they can’t abide a Christ people can beat up, just who was scourged and wasn’t strong enough to carry His own cross afterward? Just who was it I Peter 2 says “they hurled their insults at Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats”?

    How ’bout Paul in II Corinthians 12 “when I am weak then I am strong”? Or Jeremiah 9 “let not…the strong boast of their strength?”

  42. Update on a very out of the closet gay manager sexually harassing a 16 year old boy at work. After the manager repeated a very crude sexual suggestion aimed directly at the boy within days I was very disturbed as I considered what action to take on my two days off. After researching my options, I decided to write a letter (I am a writer after all, not someone skilled in live conversations with people I hardly know) to the owners of the business and 39 others just like it. So I wrote it up and dropped it in the mail to their headquarters.

    When I returned to work, the GM was there working. She is a very nice person and someone I like very much and feel privileged to have as a GM. Before I had a chance to say anything to her, I started to overhear some remarks she made that I soon learned were directly related to this. She said that someone had been living with her as a roommate for sometime and that her ex-marine husband was very angry and was going to tell this person that they had 30 days to move out later that same day. I soon learned many things I had not known about this manager. I did not realize that he was her brother-in-law. He was living at her house, without paying for rent for 18 months. She said that she
    “could not even get away from him by going home.” He was not working for the first 6 months, until she helped him get the job he now had. She was regretting that help now.

    The work place is a small gossip mill for those working there. The manager had made this crude comment twice in front of two different group of employees. She had obviously heard from some of them during my days off. She complained that she wanted to fire him even before she realized that “he had a victim.” She said that “he did whatever the hell he wanted to on his shifts.” He would mess up things when he opened in the mornings, and whenever he was the closing manager. She wanted to fire him for sometime because of this, but he kept going over to the headquarters and boldly proclaiming his special, privileged place as a “persecuted minority.” He made it clear to the owners that if anything adverse happened to him, he would sue them and make it all about his sexual orientation. They were afraid of him. For recent instance, he did not like having to wear a tie, which is required of male managers, so he went over there and protested, stating that he “identified as a woman.” He said that because the women do not wear ties. He then admitted to his sister-in-law with a smirk and a laugh that that was b.s. He was just taking advantage of a loophole. The GM is currently completely fed up with this man. She complained that he is brazen. She complained that he steals their food out of their refrigeration when they are not home, or awake. She complained that over last weekend he had time off for his birthday. He came back “drunk as a skunk” on those nights.

    She also complained twice to me of how the owner lady lied to her twice in order to manipulate people into situations that the owner wanted. I learned all of this before my letter likely even got to the office or was read. So I currently have no faith that the owners will do the right thing for the kid. After the perp learned about him getting thrown out of his free digs, he responded by coming back from his birthday and going around telling the other male employees (the young ones) a sick “joke” that started with the phrase, “what is the favorite joke for a child molester?” This just illustrates the brazenness of this man. I am now suspecting that he is a psychopath for he is sure behaving like one. His shift that day was opposite of the one of the kid, so that as he left, the kid came in to work. But later I overheard another employee repeating this joke to the kid. The kid was trying to get away from him and was complaining that “that is sexual harassment!” So the managers bad influence is even felt after he leaves for the day. The GM said that there was nothing she could do about this, because the victim would not formally file a complaint.

  43. A person like this speaks of Jesus, most importantly, as someone who does not really exist. As a character that can be reinvented to fit his own ideas, a character who can have words put into his mouth and thoughts put into his head, who will never speak up and say, “These things you have done and I kept silence; You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes.”

    In other words, do they even believe at all? Or are they playing a game of ‘let’s pretend’ and making up the rules as they go along?

  44. SiteSeer: A person like this speaks of Jesus … As a character that can be reinvented to fit his own ideas

    New Calvinists preach/teach a lot about “God” (their version of Him), with only secondary mention of Jesus, and hardly a word about the Holy Spirit. They emphasize their interpretation of the epistles of Paul, with little reference to the words in red in the Gospels. Their theology subordinates Jesus. It’s a strange new world for a believer who stumbles into it.

  45. The whole Strachan thing is nonsense.

    Others have posited, and I agree, that this focus on hypermasculinity, especially of Christ himself, is the result of not appropriately honoring his Mother, as even Luther himself did.

    Dee, one of the things I noticed when I was in the process of leaving Evangelicalism was that nowhere in the Greek of the NT does it say we have a “sin nature”. I think this phrase mostly comes from misunderstanding how Paul uses the word “sarx” (body), and from certain theological presuppositions brought to the translation process… What we have is a Human nature – everything about us which makes us human – and I can’t find anywhere in Scripture where God denigrates that nature he bestowed upon us. In fact, in ancient Christian thought our nature “naturally” wants to head us toward God. Part of the consequence of the fall is that we are blind and weak because of our fear of death (see Heb 2), and our nature is thwarted. Yes, we have a propensity toward sin, but that’s not due to our nature – sinning is ultimately acting against our true nature. We are not our sin!

    Blessed Lenten journey to you.

    D.

  46. Muff Potter: Headless Unicorn Guy: That’s why I remember it after 50 years, and I still don’t understand what he was saying.
    He probably had no idea what he was saying either, other than to advance a certain ideology that he was also taught, one that cannot be questioned under pain of being consigned to flames of woe upon death of the physical body.

    All I can remember is the guy sounded really obsessed with “FLESH AND BONE! NOT FLESH AND BLOOD!”
    Might have had something to do with the Blood got all spilled out on the cross or something.
    The guy was really in-your-face about it. I vaguely remember a radio preacher with a similar voice and accent and delivery in the Seventies, but have no idea if it was the same guy. His accent was reminiscent of J Vernon Magee, but was definitely NOT him.

  47. Max: He shouldn’t talk about John Piper like that!

    I had the same thought, but couldn’t think of a winsome enough way to say it.

  48. elastigirl: The man who is willfully soft physically is often soft spiritually.”

    That explains the Hans und Franz builds on Bethel’s Dead Raising Team.

  49. I am a daughter of Stan literally, as that was my late father’s name. Off topic. This afternoon my 100 yr old grandmother met Jesus face to face. How we loved this Godly woman. She gave everyone she met unconditional love. Her table always had room for more. There was always plenty of food. This is the 11th family member we have lost (between my dad’s family, mom’s family and husband’s family) in 23 months. It’s been a hard couple of years. But we are comforted in knowing each family member is in Heaven. Grandma left a big legacy. How she will be missed.

  50. Ken F (aka Tweed),

    I believe Kevin DeYoung and Tim Challies are what the man-child Owen Strachan would label as “Christic” men.

    Apparently one of the signs of a “Christic” man is never having to admit you blew it on defending CJ Mahaney/Sovereign Grace. (Based on DeYoung’s quote:: “Tim Challies, for example, has proven to be one the most trustworthy and reliable voices on the internet.” it would seem DeYoung and Challies both still cling to their belief that CJ Mahaney is a beacon of light. Silly of me to think facts matter.)

    Another sign of a “Christic” man is to author a blog that denigrates blog authors that dare to question a “Christic” blog author.

    Finally, another sign of a “Christic” man is not to allow any pushback via comments. Apparently no one should be allowed to publicly question (and thus humiliate) the Lord’s Anointed. This from Challies’ blog:

    In lieu of a comments section, I accept and encourage letters to the editor. If you would like to write a letter to the editor, you can do so here.

    DeYoung doesn’t allow comments nor letters to the editor, but then he is “Crazy Busy.”

    Finally my friends, always remember to stay willfully ignorant. In the sage words of “one the most trustworthy and reliable voices on the internet:” “If it is true that I am called to love other Christians, that I am called to believe and hope all things, that I am far outside this situation, then I think I do well to learn less rather than more. I need to know only enough to understand that I don’t need to know anything more!”
    -Tim Challies, “Thinking Biblically About C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries”
    https://www.challies.com/articles/thinking-biblically-about-c-j-mahaney-and-sovereign-grace-ministries/

  51. Todd Wilhelm: This from Challies’ blog:

    In lieu of a comments section, I accept and encourage letters to the editor. If you would like to write a letter to the editor, you can do so here.

    It turns out that he doesn’t do anything with those letters. It has been a very long time since he published any of those letters. Truth is a hard pill to swallow – not something their sensitive systems can stomach.

  52. Muff Potter: Indeed, a dizzying array of proposals and counter proposals.

    Yes. One of the more refreshing things I found when researching the early church is the incredible amount of latitude allowed for beliefs not codified in those two creeds. And the various condemnations of heresies were bases on those creeds, with the Nicene Creed being the primary standard. Anything not in the creed is a matter if opiniin over which Christians should not divide. Examples of things not found in the creed:
    – gender roles
    – age of the earth
    – nature ans duration of hell
    – worship style
    – atonement theories
    Plus many more.

    By contrast, Calvinistas and fundagelicals idolize doctrinal purity and systematic theology. They attempt to define everything, and turn non-essentials into essentials by tying them to one essential or another. The worst example I was confronted with was how believing in an old Earth means denying animal death was cause by human sin, which means denying blood atonement, which means denying the atonement of Jesus’ deathb, which makes you an unbeliever bound for eternal conscious torment.

  53. Max: The ugliest sight to behold on planet earth is a Southern Baptist attempting to dance!It’s painful to watch.

    On a humorous note, my Grandma told my Mom when she was little that, “she couldn’t stay a Southern Baptist because she liked to dance.” My Grandma was raised Southern Baptist in Missouri. Changed denominations when married my Grandpa and they moved north.

  54. Brian: “she couldn’t stay a Southern Baptist because she liked to dance.”

    Southern Baptists are opposed to pre-marital sex because it could lead to dancing.

  55. Wild Honey: Max: He shouldn’t talk about John Piper like that!

    I had the same thought, but couldn’t think of a winsome enough way to say it.

    When it comes to dealing with these new reformers, I gave up trying to be sweet and charming in my blog comments a long time ago.

  56. Harley,

    Harley, I just prayed for you and your family … that the Lord would give you peace in the days ahead. You have been blessed to have had a Godly grandmother.

  57. Brian: ESS heresy?

    ESS = Eternal Subordination of the Son … an aberrant teaching held by many New Calvinists.

    “Bruce Ware is one of the *inventors*, along with Wayne Grudem, of the modern day term, the Eternal Subordination of the Son (ESS.) It is also worth noting that Owen Strachan, the President of the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, proud supporters of ESS, is the son in law of Bruce Ware.”

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/06/03/a-reformed-theologian-and-a-reformed-blogger-take-on-the-eternal-subordination-of-the-son-as-it-relates-to-complementarianism/

  58. dainca: nowhere in the Greek of the NT does it say we have a “sin nature”

    I first ran across this nearly 30 years ago when I read “Tired of Trying to Measure Up” by Jeff Vanvonderen. I felt like an outsider for believing it until a few years ago when I found that the Eastern Orthodox have always believed it.

  59. dainca: one of the things I noticed when I was in the process of leaving Evangelicalism was that nowhere in the Greek of the NT does it say we have a “sin nature”.

    I agree with your entire comment. Thanks for sharing. There are a lot of presuppositions masquerading as orthodoxy in Protestantism.

  60. Max,

    “When it comes to dealing with these new reformers, I gave up trying to be sweet and charming in my blog comments a long time ago.”
    ++++++++++++++

    i’ll take a pinecone any day over cotton candy dripping with fake maple syrup.

  61. Harley,

    i’m so sorry about your grandma. i think our loved ones are near us. the ‘great cloud of witnesses’ is one way to look at it. i hope comfort is not hard to find.

  62. GMFS

    Maybe “Owen Strachan” isn’t real – it’s the alter-ego of a comedian, whose real name would probably be either Kevin or Diane. This is only a hypothesis, but if we suppose it to be true for a moment, then the aforementioned tweet would make perfect sense. I mean, crikey; it could even be the Babylon Bee – the humour is the same, if I’m not mistaken.

    In other news, I stumbled briefly this morning due to the fact that when you right-click on a folder in Finder, the Open in New Tab option is immediately above Move to Bin. Fortunately, the bin itself has a Put Back option.

  63. TS00: I agree with your entire comment.

    Me too. I stumbled across this blog site recently and found some good articles. Here is a recent one describing human nature:
    https://www.thefaithlog.com/2019/10/there-is-only-one-humanity.html?m=1
    There is only one human nature, one humanity, of which we all partake. The Incarnation, God becoming man and dwelling among us (John 1:14), was not about creating a new and different humanity — that would have been a species alien to us — but it was Christ partaking of the one and only humanity there is. It means that Christ participates with us in our humanity, even as broken as it is, so to make us whole.

  64. Ken F (aka Tweed): By contrast, Calvinistas and fundagelicals idolize doctrinal purity and systematic theology. They attempt to define everything, and turn non-essentials into essentials by tying them to one essential or another.

    The very first YRR I knew liked to follow me around and debate. His favorite thing was to insist that the saved had to know EVERYTHING about God and of course, the Bible was utterly clear on every point (which was just dumb, to be honest). He never thought for himself, and in every point, just quoted people like Piper and Mohler, sometimes even if the quote didn’t match with the question.

    Finally, I asked him why God gave us a book of stories about how people related to God and not a 100-volume systematic theology. He had no answer for that.

  65. ishy: Finally, I asked [a wee Young, Rebellious and Reformed laddie] why God gave us a book of stories about how people related to God and not a 100-volume systematic theology. He had no answer for that.

    Well, that’s odd, because surely the answer is obvious; God also gave us Calvin to write a systematic ideology explaining in some half a million words what God meant by the book of stories. And after that he gave us John Piper to explain Calvin’s explanation of God’s book of stories. And after that he gave us a host of very rich and shrewd businessmen to expound on John Piper’s explanation of Calvin’s explanation of God’s book of stories. Turtles all the way down.

    If only Jesus were still alive…

  66. TS00,

    Muscular women ‘and’ holy testosterone scare the Piped Piper. He probably wishes Strachan would move on to something else.

  67. Ken F (aka Tweed): Nicene Creed

    Here’s the whole creed:

    We believe in one God, ⁠the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, ⁠of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, ⁠eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, ⁠true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. ⁠Through him all things were made. ⁠For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, ⁠and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again ⁠⁠in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven ⁠⁠and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, ⁠and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, ⁠who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. ⁠We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. ⁠We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. ⁠We look for the resurrection of the dead, ⁠⁠and the life of the world to come. Amen.

    The Nicene Creed has been with us since the year 325, and yet some of our traditions consider it “papal claptrap.” A few of my relatives think it might as well be chanted while dancing around a cauldron. When I have asked what they object to, nobody ever has a problem with the content. It’s just the idea of everybody saying the same words at the same time. I’m too polite to ask why they are happy to recite and sing other things together.

  68. Nick Bulbeck: The male equivalent, then, would be “HABs”. I don’t know how far down that road we want to go, though!

    There’s an entire manly National Hockey League team called the Habs! This started out as a mistake, when some folks thought the H on the Montreal Canadiens’ sweaters stood for “les habitants,” or “the inhabitants.” The H actually stands for Hockey.

  69. Mr. Jesperson:
    Update on a very out of the closet gay manager sexually harassing a 16 year old boy at work.After the manager repeated a very crude sexual suggestion aimed directly at the boy within days I was very disturbed as I considered what action to take on my two days off.After researching my options, I decided to write a letter (I am a writer after all, not someone skilled in live conversations with people I hardly know) to the owners of the business and 39 others just like it.So I wrote it up and dropped it in the mail to their headquarters.

    When I returned to work, the GM was there working.She is a very nice person and someone I like very much and feel privileged to have as a GM.Before I had a chance to say anything to her, I started to overhear some remarks she made that I soon learned were directly related to this.She said that someone had been living with her as a roommate for sometime and that her ex-marine husband was very angry and was going to tell this person that they had 30 days to move out later that same day.I soon learned many things I had not known about this manager.I did not realize that he was her brother-in-law.He was living at her house, without paying for rent for 18 months.She said that she
    “could not even get away from him by going home.”He was not working for the first 6 months, until she helped him get the job he now had.She was regretting that help now.

    The work place is a small gossip mill for those working there.The manager had made this crude comment twice in front of two different group of employees.She had obviously heard from some of them during my days off.She complained that she wanted to fire him even before she realized that “he had a victim.”She said that “he did whatever the hell he wanted to on his shifts.”He would mess up things when he opened in the mornings, and whenever he was the closing manager.She wanted to fire him for sometime because of this, but he kept going over to the headquarters and boldly proclaiming his special, privileged place as a “persecuted minority.”He made it clear to the owners that if anything adverse happened to him, he would sue them and make it all about his sexual orientation.They were afraid of him.For recent instance, he did not like having to wear a tie, which is required of male managers, so he went over there and protested, stating that he “identified as a woman.”He said that because the women do not wear ties.He then admitted to his sister-in-law with a smirk and a laugh that that was b.s.He was just taking advantage of a loophole.The GM is currently completely fed up with this man.She complained that he is brazen.She complained that he steals their food out of their refrigeration when they are not home, or awake.She complained that over last weekend he had time off for his birthday.He came back “drunk as a skunk” on those nights.

    She also complained twice to me of how the owner lady lied to her twice in order to manipulate people into situations that the owner wanted.I learned all of this before my letter likely even got to the office or was read.So I currently have no faith that the owners will do the right thing for the kid.After the perp learned about him getting thrown out of his free digs, he responded by coming back from his birthday and going around telling the other male employees (the young ones) a sick “joke” that started with the phrase, “what is the favorite joke for a child molester?”This just illustrates the brazenness of this man.I am now suspecting that he is a psychopath for he is sure behaving like one.His shift that day was opposite of the one of the kid, so that as he left, the kid came in to work.But later I overheard another employee repeating this joke to the kid.The kid was trying to get away from him and was complaining that “that is sexual harassment!”So the managers bad influence is even felt after he leaves for the day.The GM said that there was nothing she could do about this, because the victim would not formally file a complaint.

    Get the young man to file an EEOC complaint.

  70. Brian,

    Depending upon which state you live in, being a one consent or two consent state, get a recording of him every time he makes his predantery jokes/advances.

  71. Nick Bulbeck: Well, that’s odd, because surely the answer is obvious; God also gave us Calvin to write a systematic ideology explaining in some half a million words what God meant by the book of stories. And after that he gave us John Piper to explain Calvin’s explanation of God’s book of stories.

    LOL, that probably is the proper New Calvinist answer, except that I don’t think at the time any New Calvinist had actually made an official position about that, so he didn’t have any response. It was still early in the public movement. Someone probably has clarified that by now…

  72. Nick Bulbeck: Well, that’s odd, because surely the answer is obvious; God also gave us Calvin to write a systematic ideology explaining in some half a million words what God meant by the book of stories.

    Just like he did Mohammed.

  73. ishy: The very first YRR I knew liked to follow me around and debate

    Did he twirl a pen?

    And did he remind you of a Young Communist of the 30s or 60s?

  74. Mr. Jesperson,

    My only other thought is you and your coworkers need to convince the young man and his parents that he needs to file the complaint. Does his parents even know what’s going on?

  75. Brian:
    Mr. Jesperson,

    My only other thought is you and your coworkers need to convince the young man and his parents that he needs to file the complaint. Does his parents even know what’s going on?

    Yet after the first time he aired this a couple threads ago, Mr J seemed to get offended by our (solicited) advice to take action and very little else. This did not help his credibility.

  76. On reflection, the funniest thing about wee Mr Strachan’s output as quoted above is…

    the pseudo-word “christic”.

    Sounds like a kind of drain-cleaner; as in, christic soda.

  77. Brian: Get the young man to file an EEOC complaint.

    A witness can file an EEO complaint, at least under many circumstances. I have done it.

    Another commenter mentioned calling CPS, since the alleged victim is under 18.

  78. Brian: Does his parents even know what’s going on?

    A lot of teens would not want parents to know, because a parent’s first impulse is to protect the child, often by curtailing steps toward adult independence. And by initiating highly uncomfortable discussions.

    Doubly complicated if a hypothetical young person has not yet felt attractions to a person of the opposite sex.

    /anecdotal impressions

  79. With respect to original post….. these guys are just “clowns”… And I am supposed to “respect them”… and they are suppose to have “spiritual authority” over me??

  80. The OP also puts a new spin on “Holly water”….. does it contain “holly testosterone”?

  81. dainca,

    YES!
    Yes and yes to your comment. I too have observed and arrived at the same conclusions in my journey out of fundagelicalism.

  82. dainca: Others have posited, and I agree, that this focus on hypermasculinity, especially of Christ himself, is the result of not appropriately honoring his Mother, as even Luther himself did.

    But that’s Too ROMISH(TM)!

  83. Jeffrey Chalmers: With respect to original post….. these guys are just “clowns”… And I am supposed to “respect them”… and they are suppose to have “spiritual authority” over me??

    “DEUS VULT!”

  84. Nick Bulbeck:
    On reflection, the funniest thing about wee Mr Strachan’s output as quoted above is…

    the pseudo-word “christic”.

    Sounds like a kind of drain-cleaner; as in, christic soda.

    English is the fastest-mutating of all languages, and some Mutations are Lethal.

  85. dainca: In fact, in ancient Christian thought our nature “naturally” wants to head us toward God. Part of the consequence of the fall is that we are blind and weak because of our fear of death (see Heb 2), and our nature is thwarted.

    Yet so much of Christian history has supercharged that fear of death by increasing the threat to Cosmic levels with Eternal Hellfire, turn-or-burn, and Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.

  86. dainca: Part of the consequence of the fall is that we are blind and weak because of our fear of death (see Heb 2), and our nature is thwarted.

    This, I think, sits compellingly alongside

    … Father, forgive them; they don’t know what they are doing.

  87. Have been away a while; checking back in…

    I see that this is a testicle-adjacent post, so I offer for general interest and edification (and a certain amount of amusement, which I think we all need in these days) this wonderful podcast on the likely historical meaning of Paul’s famous remarks to the church at Corinth about “head coverings”:

    https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/naked-bible-86-the-head-covering-of-1-corinthians-1113-15/

    This is a persuasive argument that leads to a radically different understanding of a controversial text that I think is pretty relevant to the debate over “complementarianism” in the sense of “hermeneutical procedures and presuppositions.” It seems to me likely that if we knew with good certainty more about the specific situational contexts of other texts that are more central to the debate, we would similarly find conclusions that would be surprising to current defenders of the position.

    In other news, it looks to me like the megas might have a hard time “packing the pews” in a new world of recurring seasonal viral pneumonia. I don’t know whether these corporations have well-developed internal risk management systems, but I can conceive of potential legal liability if they command their followers to disobey the public health authorities, should those at some point issue advisories recommending the avoidance of large public gatherings.

  88. ishy: Also something different–a whole thread of stories about Liberty and how men hit on women… badly…

    I’m definitely reading this!

  89. ishy,

    Guy kissed somebody he’d been dating for SEVEN months and had to go his person to pray about going to far I am dying lol.

    Some other funny ones about dudes not understanding pretty basic stuff about women and sex.

  90. Lea: I’m definitely reading this!

    Reading it made me really glad I attended a secular, public university. Sure, had my share of awkward experiences, but none quite this extreme! Also made me appreciate having the freedom to be friends with a male classmate without the assumption being that I was either (a) looking for suitable marriage material or (b) presenting myself as such.

  91. PROFESSOR Owen Stachan?

    Is this professorship anything like those Honorary Doctorates the MoGs exchange like selfies?

  92. Lea: Guy kissed somebody he’d been dating for SEVEN months and had to go his person to pray about going too far…

    Welcome to the world of Christianese Purity Culture.

  93. Quick update on the fitba’ –

    Third-placed Leicester lost away to bottom club Norwich tonight, which threw a vital lifeline to the Canaries but was a bit of a blow for Leicester. At one point earlier in the season, they were clear in second place and appeared to be gearing up for a serious challenge to Liverpool for the title; they’re still relatively safe in third place (needing a top-four finish for a place in the Give Us Yer Money Cup next season) but will need to rediscover some form if they’re to stay there.

    Liverpool have a potentially difficult visit to relegation-threatened Watford tomorrow. With Leicester now unable to exceed 80 points this season, if we were to beat Watford then Manchester City would be the only club left who could theoretically catch us. At the time of writing, we need four wins from our remaining 11 games to be certain of winning the title even if City were to win all their remaining games. City themselves play in the League Cup final against Villa this weekend.

    IHTIH

  94. Lea: Some other funny ones about dudes not understanding pretty basic stuff about women and sex.

    A couple of those made me totally cringe.

    I had one “God told me to marry you” guy. This was within the first couple weeks of transferring there. He was so mystified that I kept telling him to leave me alone, like surely God would have come down and spoken to me Himself, and dude couldn’t figure out why He didn’t. He soon switched to multiple other girls and was so creepy that he probably got turned down by at least 20 women before finding someone who agreed (and sadly, someone did). They married for 6 weeks and divorced.

    And a lot of people wondered why I doubted when they said God spoke to them about something.

  95. Friend: A few of my relatives think it might as well be chanted while dancing around a cauldron. When I have asked what they object to, nobody ever has a problem with the content. It’s just the idea of everybody saying the same words at the same time. I’m too polite to ask why they are happy to recite and sing other things together.

    It’s funny that they say it should be chanted because that is exactly how it is recited by the congregations in Eastern Orthodox churches, minus the cauldron. While the melody is not likely to win any awards, I much prefer it to 7-11 lyrics sung at 100dB. Here is an example of the creed being sung (chanted):
    https://youtu.be/-PsRBO52dfY

    If you listen carefully you will notice a difference in wording from what you quoted above that caused a bit of a stir between Eastern and Western churches a number of years ago.

  96. Nick Bulbeck: And after that he gave us a host of very rich and shrewd businessmen to expound on John Piper’s explanation of Calvin’s explanation of God’s book of stories.

    Speaking of Piper, here is what he posted today:
    https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/how-do-we-make-sense-of-the-coronavirus

    So the question is not whether Jesus is overseeing, limiting, guiding, governing all the disasters and all the diseases of the world, including all their sinful and satanic dimensions. He is.

    It seems to me that Piper missed that part in the parable of the wheat and the tares where Jesus said, “An enemy has done this!”

  97. ishy: His favorite thing was to insist that the saved had to know EVERYTHING about God

    It does not take a lot of reflection to realize that all of us are agnostic (without knowledge) to one extent or another.

  98. Wild Honey:
    Reading it made me really glad I attended a secular, public university.

    Me too (except mine was private). I think that every time ishy starts sharing…Whew.

    I am also glad about that every time people start talking about weird dorm rules about the opposite sex, since we had none.

  99. ishy: They married for 6 weeks and divorced.

    One of the stories mentioned someone being married in 2 weeks for 6! Crazy, wonder if it was the same guy.

  100. ishy,

    Didn’t Liberty U. want everyone married by the time they graduated so they could enter into some kind of ministry?

  101. ishy,
    For over 50 years I have watched people say “G&d told me this, and G&d told that”…. the real stinker is when people call you “cynical”, or worse, like a “lukewarm” Christian for questioning the “G$d told me such and such”..

  102. Ken F (aka Tweed): It seems to me that Piper missed that part in the parable of the wheat and the tares where Jesus said, “An enemy has done this!”

    Hard to believe that so many otherwise intelligent young folks fall for the Gospel according to Piper without reading the Bible themselves and praying that the Holy Spirit would teach them truth.

  103. Brian:
    ishy,
    Didn’t Liberty U. want everyone married by the time they graduated so they could enter into some kind of ministry?

    I hear they’re not as bad about that as they used to be, but I would say as much or more pressure came from many of the parents as the school. Though not just for ministry, but there’s definitely a lot of pressure purely to provide grandkids or to “keep from sinning”. A lot of people believed that God would fix all life problems if you just said, “I do.” He doesn’t.

  104. After reading the OP in its entirely, these thoughts occur

    * I can see how interacting with Strachan and company makes many people … testy

    * Per Heiser’s podcast, linked previously, from the perspective of first Century Mediterranean understanding of reproductive physiology and function, the CJ Mahaney imitators would have been considered very masculine. Long hair on the head was regarded to impair male function (Paul’s argument “from nature” in I Cor 11); the shorter the better. I think the Duck Dynasty people might have been regarded to be somewhat gender ambiguous in view of the length of some of the beard hair.

    * My private theory of the mechanism by which Jesus’ death on the Cross “defeated the Powers” is that the execution of Israel’s king by Israel’s pagan enemy, Rome, discouraged the militant movement that had hoped that Jesus would lead it in war against Rome. Jesus’ death delayed the war for a generation, and so put off the defeat of the people of God, Israel, for that time. It was a defensive victory. But, unfortunately for visible Israel, it was also only a temporary one.

  105. Samuel Conner: Long hair on the head was regarded to impair male function (Paul’s argument “from nature” in I Cor 11); the shorter the better.

    You’ll be aware from my avatar fotie (which IS me) that I have great hair. I often think of the following quote from Tony Campolo:

    We’re all born with a certain allocation of hormones. And if you want to use yours growing hair, that’s your privilege.

  106. Ken F (aka Tweed): Speaking of Piper, here is what he posted today:
    https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/how-do-we-make-sense-of-the-coronavirus

    It seems to me that Piper missed that part in the parable of the wheat and the tares where Jesus said, “An enemy has done this!”

    I am deeply unsympathetic to the megas, and the closest I am prepared to get to a mega-sympathetic interpretation of the epidemic with regard to God’s view of and intentions toward them is that, like in the earlier chapters of Acts, when exogenous hardships (persecution, specifically) led to the scattering of the big, centralized Jerusalem church, perhaps God prefers that these groups be scattered rather than gathered. I do think that will be very hard for the business model to adapt to, and that might be part of the Intention, if one wishes to see “hand of God” in this.

  107. ishy,

    ‘Ring by spring or your money back’ was mentioned in the thread, and that was also joke about a local baptist college. Doesn’t mean everybody followed it.

  108. Lea: ‘Ring by spring or your money back’ was mentioned in the thread, and that was also joke about a local baptist college.

    At the local Baptist college here, they joke about the young ladies attending to get their “Mrs. degree.”

  109. ishy,

    “A lot of people believed that God would fix all life problems if you just said, “I do.” He doesn’t.”
    ++++++++++

    sorry–they thought that would shorten the list of life’s problems??

  110. Ken F (aka Tweed):
    “…and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Strachan).

    When they have to use formal heresy to make their point it kind of tells us that they need to re-think their theology.This statement of his appears close to modalism, which was a formally condemned heresy. Attributing flesh to the Father violates the Nicene Creed.And to suggest that Jesus is no longer human violates the Chalcedonian Creed. But other than that…

    That was precisely my reaction: Heretics gotta heretic.

    I rolled my eyes so hard they practically disappeared from their sockets.

    Then I picked my jaw up off the floor.

    Man, Strachan is really messing with my anatomy!

  111. ION: Fitba’

    Liverpool’s unbeaten run came to a sorry end at Watford today, with the Reds going down 3-0 to the relegation-threatened Hornets. We’ve been on poor form for several matches now, losing away to Athletico Madrid in the Give Us Yer Money Cup earlier in the week and struggling to beat West Ham at home on Monday. Liverpool fans can only hope that this is our seasonal blip in form and that we can recapture some form before next week.

  112. Max: At the local Baptist college here, they joke about the young ladies attending to get their “Mrs. degree.”

    Some of them are quite earnest. I remember a freshman girl asking me why I didn’t “have a boyfriend yet, because you’re so old”. I think I was 22 at the time. She was totally confused that any woman would go to college to, you know, learn stuff. “But your husband will do all the work,” she said. I told her, “#1, that’s probably false, there’s a lot of work in homemaking. #2 What if he dies before he’s 30?” She got wide-eyed. “I guess you would get married again. But 30 would be too old to find a good husband.”

    It’s sad, but I’m certain she’s wised up by now, but wouldn’t it be nice if life worked that way, even sometimes?

  113. Mr. Jesperson:
    Update on a very out of the closet gay manager sexually harassing a 16 year old boy at work.After the manager repeated a very crude sexual suggestion aimed directly at the boy within days I was very disturbed as I considered what action to take on my two days off.After researching my options, I decided to write a letter (I am a writer after all, not someone skilled in live conversations with people I hardly know) to the owners of the business and 39 others just like it.So I wrote it up and dropped it in the mail to their headquarters.

    When I returned to work, the GM was there working.She is a very nice person and someone I like very much and feel privileged to have as a GM.Before I had a chance to say anything to her, I started to overhear some remarks she made that I soon learned were directly related to this.She said that someone had been living with her as a roommate for sometime and that her ex-marine husband was very angry and was going to tell this person that they had 30 days to move out later that same day.I soon learned many things I had not known about this manager.I did not realize that he was her brother-in-law.He was living at her house, without paying for rent for 18 months.She said that she
    “could not even get away from him by going home.”He was not working for the first 6 months, until she helped him get the job he now had.She was regretting that help now.

    The work place is a small gossip mill for those working there.The manager had made this crude comment twice in front of two different group of employees.She had obviously heard from some of them during my days off.She complained that she wanted to fire him even before she realized that “he had a victim.”She said that “he did whatever the hell he wanted to on his shifts.”He would mess up things when he opened in the mornings, and whenever he was the closing manager.She wanted to fire him for sometime because of this, but he kept going over to the headquarters and boldly proclaiming his special, privileged place as a “persecuted minority.”He made it clear to the owners that if anything adverse happened to him, he would sue them and make it all about his sexual orientation.They were afraid of him.For recent instance, he did not like having to wear a tie, which is required of male managers, so he went over there and protested, stating that he “identified as a woman.”He said that because the women do not wear ties.He then admitted to his sister-in-law with a smirk and a laugh that that was b.s.He was just taking advantage of a loophole.The GM is currently completely fed up with this man.She complained that he is brazen.She complained that he steals their food out of their refrigeration when they are not home, or awake.She complained that over last weekend he had time off for his birthday.He came back “drunk as a skunk” on those nights.

    She also complained twice to me of how the owner lady lied to her twice in order to manipulate people into situations that the owner wanted.I learned all of this before my letter likely even got to the office or was read.So I currently have no faith that the owners will do the right thing for the kid.After the perp learned about him getting thrown out of his free digs, he responded by coming back from his birthday and going around telling the other male employees (the young ones) a sick “joke” that started with the phrase, “what is the favorite joke for a child molester?”This just illustrates the brazenness of this man.I am now suspecting that he is a psychopath for he is sure behaving like one.His shift that day was opposite of the one of the kid, so that as he left, the kid came in to work.But later I overheard another employee repeating this joke to the kid.The kid was trying to get away from him and was complaining that “that is sexual harassment!”So the managers bad influence is even felt after he leaves for the day.The GM said that there was nothing she could do about this, because the victim would not formally file a complaint.

    There is always the option of a police report filed by multiple employee witnesses.

    There is also prayer. After fasting and praying I’ve seen high level governmental officials publicly humiliated and banished from what they thought were secure positions.

    You can also let the 16year old know you’re on his side, and will stand with him if he speaks up.

  114. Fisher,

    “There is also prayer. After fasting and praying I’ve seen high level governmental officials publicly humiliated and banished from what they thought were secure positions.”
    +++++++++++++

    blimey…

  115. Catholic Gate-Crasher: Man, Strachan is really messing with my anatomy!

    I made the mistake of falsely attributing that Joseph Smith quote to Strachan. Still, Strachan’s belief in ESS is good enough reason for eye rolls.