When the Acts 29 Leadership and the Elders of Mosaic Church Failed Victims #metoo #churchtoo #istandwithmosaicvictims

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“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves


 

A few years ago, Mosaic Church, at the time led by Dustin Boles, was a member of the Acts 29 network. Some people think that being an affiliate of this group means something. Like these are real Christians who do things the right way. So, what happens when concerned individuals reach out to this group, hoping for support in difficult times?  In the following two situations it would appear that being  members of a church in the Acts 29 network means next to nothing.

Recently, The Gospel Coalition posted their ode to Acts 29. How Acts 29 Survived—and Thrived—After the Collapse of Mars Hill. Apparently, they believe that Matt Chandler of The Village Church was the savior of that organization after Mark Driscoll stepped down in 2013. As you will see, he was in charge when some folks from Mosaic contacted Acts 29 and asked for help.

Here are some quotes from the article. Chandler vowed that their group would treat women better and also said that Acts 29  planters should grow up and act like adults. Not only that but they were supposed to strive to develop a reputation for holiness and humility. This story will not demonstrate that lofty goal. In fact, The Village Church under Matt Chandler has not demonstrated this as well but that has been discussed ad nauseam at TWW.

Driscoll was also starting to attract more controversy, drawing regular fire over his impulsive language and attitude toward women acts 29 and the role of elders

“It was time for us to leave puberty and grow up to the things the Lord has called us to,” Chandler said.

Chandler applied immediate triage, laying out four clear hopes for the future—a renewed focus on churches planting churches, a reputation for holiness and humility, ethnic diversity, and bold evangelism.

“I was trying to wrap my mind around the people factor first,” Chandler said. “We could deal with the systems and finances once I got a good picture of what was going on in the hearts and minds of the people.”

The attitude toward women—which could dip into a harsh patriarchy—also eased.

In fact, Chandler said he wanted to *wrap his mind around the people factor…what was going on in their hearts and minds.” Well, Acts 29 got to know a few people and it appears they weren’t excited to find out what was going on.

I visited their website and it does not appear that the Mosaic Church in Mississippi is still a member of Acts 29. Why is that?

The role of elders in a church

Acts 29 posted Ecclesiology Matters. Especially for Elders. There is no question that this network encourages elder led churches.The elders are supposed to be there not only to protect the pastor but also to shepherd and support that people in their congregation. I have written extensively that many churches whose pastors believe in authoritarian leadership usually pick yes men to be on their elder board. Their job is primarily to give the lead pastor (the one bringing in the sheep with $$$) what he needs to succeed. In some situation, members are looked at as those who cause trouble with the implementation of the pastors’ and elders’ vision.

I was once a member of a church  in which their was a dispute over a matter. The pastor was adamant about his way or the highway. So I asked him if the elders agreed with him. His answer sums up my thesis on the matter. “My elders have only disagreed with me twice in 28 years.” I knew then that I was not long for this church since the pastor was the only one with a voice. His elders were his *yes* men.

So what happens when the pastor becomes the problem? Who do the church members or subordinate pastors turn to for help?

Pastor DeWayne contacted Acts 29 about Pastor Dustin in 2014.

This pastor is now the senior pastor of a good sized church in the South. I have chosen not to give the name of his church or his full name even though he gave me permission to do so. Years ago, he refused to sign a nondisclosure agreement so that he would always be free to tell his story. When we spoke, he said he thought no one really cared about what he had to say.

He has known Boles and his (now) wife since they were all in Bible college together. He knew of Boles’ problems because they had been very close to one another and even served in each others weddings. As you will see, during these years, he had great hopes that Dustin would turn his life around. Dustin often said he was trying to do better.

So when Dustin contacted him and asked him to be a pastor at one of the satellite campuses, he agreed to come. He packed up his family, excited to have a chance to lead a satellite campus. By this time, Mosaic was growing and Dustin was rapidly becoming known as a successful church planter. He was also excited that there would be an affiliation with Acts 29.

However, the excitement soon turned to dismay. He began realize that he made a mistake. The good news is the God has now blessed him with a wonderful church which he might not have discovered if he hadn’t made the move.

The following excerpts are from the letter which he mailed to Acts 29 in 2014.  He never received a response. In 2016, Dustin was forced to step down, admiting to sexual sin in his resignation. Let me also point out that an intervention by Acts 29 leadership and/or church elders at this time might have prevented much pain and suffering in the lives of the women who were hurt.

Be sure to note Pastor DeWayne’s humility. He often points to himself, stressing that he wished he had done the right thing earlier. I expect that comments to this post will reflect that understanding.

I’m sure Pastor DeWayne would be happy to provide this entire letter to anyone in the Acts 29 leadership. However, why do I think they will not be interested. Prove me wrong, ACTS 29!!

Again, these are excerpts and not the full letter.

Dustin and I were college roommates at Southeastern College, now Southeastern University in Lakeland Florida.  At first I was put off by him, but came to like him in short order.  We became good friends as we both studied in preparation for full time ministry.  We had girlfriends who would become our wives, similar life plans and goals, and we even worked in the same places as we made our way through school.

Back in college in our on campus apartment (G5) with our 5 other roommates (they changed each of the last two years we roomed together) Dustin would go into great detail about his Christless past.  His many sexual exploits, the constant pornography supplied to him by his step father, the girls he had raped and abused, and the drug and alcohol abuse that shaped his life right into adulthood.

It troubled me then not only because of the content of these stories but because of the way in which he reveled in them.  He wasn’t repentant.  He seemed thankful that he wasn’t doing those things anymore, and that his life was changing, but he missed them and even seemed to want just one more day of that sort of life. I never corrected him. I should have. I regret that.

We were real life official youth pastors in the Assemblies of God, he in New Orleans and I in Venice Florida.  We stayed in regular contact.  Those were great days, weeks, months and years, but the troubles from Dustin’s past always loomed in the background.

He would talk about the money he was making, the car he bought, the house and most disturbingly to me, the girls in his youth group.  He would describe their bodies, and how he could be tempted to seduce or be seduced by some of them. He would always frame it in a need for prayer, but that didn’t satisfy my soul. He would always say “Shepherds don’t screw sheep”.  That was his mantra.  It always came up in every conversation. I didn’t say anything.

In August of 2001 Dustin was the youth pastor of The Met Church in Keller TX, and I was the youth pastor of Bethel Temple Assembly of God in Fort Worth. I loved that we had ended up within 20 miles of each other. We would all get together sometimes, have a meal or just hangout, sometimes with our three kids, sometimes without, and sometimes just he and I.

When it was just we two, the conversations always reverted to our college days topics. We called it “pillow talk” reminiscent of the nights we all stayed awake in G5 late into the night talking and laughing about everything. It always turned dirty. I think that I was as startled and intrigued as I had been ten years earlier. I had never known anyone with his kind of background, and he was so willing to divulge the most graphic content. Sometimes it was too much, and I would steer the conversation in a different direction. My own conscience would not allow for such soul crushing input.

He told the same old stories about the girls he had raped. One story in particular will haunt me forever.  He told it laughing and would thank God for protecting him from disease, pregnancy and legal trouble. I struggled with that 20 years ago, 10 years ago and still today.

He had started giving girls in his youth group nicknames.  “Milk Mustache” was a favorite girl of his who was by his description especially well endowed, and there were others that were far more descriptive and far worse. At this point I grew weary of only changing the topic and began to correct Dustin. He quickly apologized, blamed his youth and background, would even pray with me and then we would carry on.

That year, 2001, The Met via Dustin, offered me a job as their Middle School youth pastor.  I took it without much thought or prayer. I never considered the ramifications of working with my friend, who I knew was broken and not receiving help. I loved the job, but in no time I realized how depraved the atmosphere was behind the scenes at the Met. There was constant talk of wife swapping and all kinds of perverse innuendo.

Dustin developed a strong infatuation for (name of woman), a pastor and regularly talked about having “angry sex” with her.  I was disgusted, and told my wife Michelle about all that was going on. She was stunned, as I had mostly kept that part of who Dustin was from her.  I thought I was protecting him. Then Pastor (name of pastor) joked about the pornography that he enjoyed, as did Dustin and (name of another pastor) who added he and his then wife’s pre-marital exploits to these discussions.

(ed. note At this point, DeWayne was fired from his job because he got sucked into the joking, etc and it got too much. He left the church and then served another church for 7 years, still maintaining a relationship with Dustin. Eventually, Dustin would start Mosaic Church and ask DeWayne to come and be a satellite pastor.)

Graphic imagery in next couple of paragraphs.

Over those next two weeks all of the old stories had been told anew, and with fresh enthusiasm.  He had not left them.  He reveled in them and the staff and elders around him made no attempt to correct him.  I was baffled, and in no way amused.  I did not play along.  Sex with many partners, rape, drugs, alcohol and all manner of filth were set in front of me again just like they had been so many years before.  All accompanied by laughter.  No repentance of any kind.  He would now say that he misses those days.

Please forgive the raw nature of this next section.  It is sad but necessary.

Dustin regularly talked about how any woman could get whatever she wanted from any man simply by showing him her p—-y.  “God gave women an unfair advantage by giving them a vagina.”  “I prefer a big black hairy bush.  I grew up on ‘70’s porn and just like it that way.”  There was more than this; it was awful, sinful and shocking. Every day, every drive, everywhere and occasionally in mixed company if he knew the woman wouldn’t react.

These revelations were constant. This time I told Michelle early on that there was trouble in my old friend.  We had made Dustin and Natalie the god parents of our kids a couple of years before. We changed our will and removed their names. That was sad. We did not tell them.  I thought that as soon as the new church started I would be able to then encourage Dustin to get some help. That was wrong. I should have strongly confronted him as soon as it all started but I felt alone in my concern, and had a mortgage to pay. I was a coward.

As I mentioned before key staff leaders knew about what was happening but only played along.

The truth is that there is no one to say anything to. The 4 elders are somewhat aware of the problems with which Dustin struggles. He told a partial truth when he told me that they know, but they don’t know the depth of the darkness in which he stumbles around.

After that trip (ed. note: to New Orleans with a wealthy contributor) Dustin told me that he had let, and even encouraged Natalie to dance with (name).  He said that (name) enjoyed feeling Natalies big b—bs against him and that he liked “grinding up on and feeling up Nat” which was fine with him (Dustin) as long as (name) kept writing those big checks. I was floored.  I wanted to defend Natalie who is Michelle’s good friend, and frankly I had just had enough.  Sadly, again I said nothing.

Days later Dustin asked me about going to New Orleans again. In the course of that brief conversation Dustin said.  “I just want to get you guys over there, get Michelle drunk and then hey, who knows.”

She and Natalie were good friends, so this was especially difficult on Michelle who had been trying to lead Natalie through some tough days.

Natalie does indeed know about Dustin’s many struggles

In some way Dustin has been my problem for 22 years.  He has been a friend who has asked me to quietly help him carry his dark secrets.  I have, to my shame, done so.  Perhaps to protect him, perhaps because of some faith I’ve had that he would get help on his own, or perhaps he might even be healed through some miracle.  Maybe I just didn’t want to bother with the trouble that should follow a letter like this

I did not include the time leading up to DeWayne’s departure. It is very interesting but lengthy.

Pastor DeWayne’s letter to the elders, including Dustin (Graphic warning)

Once again, these are excerpts. A few sentences are graphic.I have left out some repeats from the ACTS 29 letter. Dustin decided to fire DeWayne even though his church was successful, very successful. But he decided to write a letter to see if someone would do something.

Nothing happened. Once again, had the elders acted decisively, they might have prevented much pain for the alleged victims.

 I’ve communicated with Bruce Wesley and Mark Carden of Acts 29/Clear Creek Community Church, and am now going to turn to you as the problem must be resolved.

You know that Dustin and I have or rather had been friends for more than two decades.  That friendship was broken in the fall of 2013 when Dustin and I were sitting in Coffee Fusion and he suggested that he Natalie, Michelle and I spend and evening and night in New Orleans.  He said that he wanted to get Natalie and Michelle drunk and then “let’s see what happens.”  That day I left him and began the process of leaving Mosaic.

This terrible day came after years of hearing Dustin talk about his problems with lust, and his particular interest in, (forgive me)  “big black hairy bush” because he “grew up on 70’s porn and I just like it that way”, repetitious discussions about different girls and women in the church by name, and others outside of the church. I was so troubled by his constant, filthy and disturbing references and descriptions of women.  He often included the statements that “any woman can have sex anytime she wants by simply offering her vagina to any man” and that “God gave women an unfair advantage by giving them a vag.”

Before I moved to Mississippi, Dustin and I had a few talks by which I wanted to be assured that all of the wickedness was behind him and that I wasn’t bringing my family into a partnership that would be broken from the beginning. He assured me that all was well. He told me that his elders and Natalie knew of all of his troubles and were keeping him straight, that those dark days were behind him.  He lied.

Dustin, I hope for your own sake you’ll take this for what it is.  I’m trying to help you. I’m not mad at you, well mostly. The day in Coffee Fusion is still tough to process, but I’m working through it.  I know that you are tormented.  I saw a picture and a video of you a couple of days ago.  The war in your soul was all over your face and in your voice.  It was heartbreaking.  You have got to get some help or you are going to lose everything.

The last thing you ever said to me was that you “thought we were more alike.” In many ways we are, but there are other more significant aspects of our characters that could not be more different. You don’t understand this step I’m taking.  It’s confrontational and caring.  You thought I would just crawl away and pout.  I’m not that guy.  There is little else that I can do after sending this letter, so I’m sending it with a prayer for you.

I told you 12 years ago that God was going to send you to Mississippi to start something amazing.  I told you to trust him and not to be afraid.  I told you that it was going to be great.  You are now at a critical crossroads. Those things have happened because Jesus is great. Don’t let your pride and fear now creep back in and undermine what God has done.  He is not going to let that happen, and that sure can’t be good for you in the short term and perhaps for the long term.
Alright guys.  There you go. I’m not trying to pick a fight. My family is great, Coast Life Church is blessed, growing, alive and well and I’m so thankful for all that Jesus has done.  It would be easier to just sit back, watch and pray.  What kind of a friend would I be if I did that?  Dustin and I met all those years ago so that I could step to him and you today and try to prevent the coming train wreck.  I’ve done my part for now.  What happens next is your call.

There is much to repair and repent of.  Dustin has a lot of work to do, and he must do it. From girls he raped 30 years ago to (name) whom he regularly calls a b—-h in your presence today he must truly repent.  He is utterly broken and in denial.  You can be certain that I won’t be backing down or going away.  Dustin attacked my family and broke my heart, but I love that guy and want him to have real God honoring Christ centered success.  That will never happen until his past is resolved, his present is made right and he is healed.  Jesus is the Pastor of the church.  You guys are the overseers of Dustin’s soul.  For God’s and his sake be men and do something.

Acts 29 Skype Meeting with Rachel and Jade Oct. 11, 2016

Acts 29 reached out to the victims and asked to speak with them via Skype. This is now two years out from Pastor DeWayne’s letters.It appears that the elders at Mosaic had reached out to them. It looks like they got a response…

Rachel and Jade spoke with the Acts 29 leaders over Skype. Rachel and Jade had a respected witness to this meeting who will come forward if necessary.

The following is proof of this meeting. The Acts 29 guys sounded sympathetic and apologized for the pain that they experienced. They told them they would get back in touch with them.

They never did…ACTS 29 shame on you!!!! You claim to care about women but when it comes right down to it, you don’t. How could you not contact these women again as you promised you would? Are you not men of your word? Maybe you never intended to do so ands just used these women to get information? You tell me.How unfeeling and crass of you.

 

Jade, Rachel, and an anonymous victim met with the Mosaic elders shortly before Dustin’s resignation. Jade was allegedly accused of having a simple affair and being courted by a married Dustin by a thoughtless elder.

Yes there is a third victim but she is not ready to come forward yet. When I can tell you the full story of what happened this week, you will understand why….Yep-the reason for a couple of difficult days for all of us but all is well now.

The women discussed their alleged molestations by Dustin. It did not go well. One of the elders, D, allegedly told Jade that Dustin didn’t molest her.. He was merely *courting* her. He allegedly claimed she had an affair with Dustin and even appeared to allege that she was to blame.

I have something to say to Elder D. I have listened as Jade sobbed as she discussed this meeting with you. These heartfelt sobs, years later, are not the tears of someone covering up an *affair.* They are the tears of a shattered woman. I cannot express to you how much this angers me. And you considered yourself an elder?

My final words to Acts 29 and the Elders at Mosaic Church in 2016

Once again, I have to strongly state that these are allegations. However, I’ve been writing this blog for over 10 years. I have talked to many victims. There is no question in my mind that these women experienced a serious trauma.Their pain lasts to this day and I believe it will last a lifetime. The pain has been made worse by a bunch of men who talked the talk, enjoyed calling themselves elders and leaders, while doing nothing for these dear women who God entrusted to their care.

Do you sleep well at night? I wouldn’t if I were in your shoes.

And then you heard from Pastor DeWayne. He made a difficult and courageous decision to do what no one else had done to this point. He told the truth even though he knew it would cost him. It appears you decided to ignore him as well. So, you also don’t care for the little pastors, only the rainmaker celebrity. Do you think God is pleased with you? DeWayne has more strength in his little finger than you guys who talk so much about your male leadership and shepherding skills.I was honored to talk with him. He is a decent man and his church is blessed to have a guy like him leading their church. I wish I had time to tell you about everything we discussed.

I would rather spend my time with DeWayne, Jade, Rachel and Anonymous than with the elders of Mosaic Church in 2016.and the leaders of Acts 29. Maybe that’s why Jesus spent time with the lost and let down. He really loved and cared for them. Do you guys do the same?

It is time to repent and to ask forgiveness. Do you have the guts to do it?

Please join in in praying for Rachel, Jade, Anonymous and Pastor DeWayne.

Comments

When the Acts 29 Leadership and the Elders of Mosaic Church Failed Victims #metoo #churchtoo #istandwithmosaicvictims — 125 Comments

  1. I almost CAN’T anymore with this absolute depravity coming out of the church. Our Lord is so very grieved. I also believe it’s quite coincidental that the Jerry Falwell Jr. story breaks the same week, with allegations of this same sort. Perversion in the leadership.

    To the victims- We believe you, support you & will rage against this unholy machine.

    Pastor DeWayne- Thank you you for speaking up. I believe you were traumatized by Dustin too.

  2. Hello,
    What a tragic tale. Is there a statute of limitations barring legal involvement at this point?

  3. “The pain has been made worse by a bunch of men who talked the talk, enjoyed calling themselves elders and leaders, while doing nothing for these dear women who God entrusted to their care.

    Do you sleep well at night? I wouldn’t if I were in your shoes.

    And then you heard from Pastor DeWayne. He made a difficult and courageous decision to do what no one else had done to this point. He told the truth even though he knew it would cost him. It appears you decided to ignore him as well. So, you also don’t care for the little pastors, only the rainmaker celebrity. Do you think God is pleased with you? DeWayne has more strength in his little finger than you guys who talk so much about your male leadership and shepherding skills.”
    ++++++++++++++++++

    a varnish-free zone! plain-spoken-a-rama.

  4. Thank you, DeWayne, for your self-less honesty.

    You give me hope that perhaps this isn’t a silly religion after all.

  5. VANCE,

    Dustin was forced off the pulpit (kind of bc he’s been an assistant pastor to another church in town for the last year or more, I wasn’t aware of how much he was preaching) by the elders. The statute of limitations, for me, in MS is 3 years. So, he waited exactly 3 years to start a church. After I can’t do anything legally. I filed a police report but they said without “penetration” there was nothing else I could do.

  6. This message was posted on the Vintage Church Facebook page in the photo section at about 7:45 this morning:

    Due to the need for a venue change we will not be launching tomorrow the 15th. However we will be announcing a new venue and start date soon.

    This delay only represents our desire to do things with excellence and have everything in place before we invite the community to come.

    I guess that the hosting church has heard about Dee’s posts.

  7. John: Looks like A29 needs to work a little harder at “holiness and humility”.

    Acts 29 church leaders have never been accused of “holiness and humility.” Irreverence and arrogance are more common descriptors. Taking their lead from Acts 29 founder and potty-mouth preacher, Mark Driscoll, many of their ministers and ministries have stretched moral boundaries as they do church without God. Ousted from Acts 29 because of his misbehaving, Driscoll is acting a little more civilized now but an army of Driscollites in the New Calvinist movement are still wreaking havoc in the American church – his legacy.

  8. Anna: absolute depravity coming out of the church

    The New Calvinists are holding up to the first tenet of their doctrine “Total Depravity” … Dustin Boles is living proof.

  9. Eli: Why on earth should Dustin Boles be a pastor??

    And can you believe he’s launching a new church tomorrow?!!

    I never cease to be amazed at the spiritual condition of church folks who allow such characters to lead them! I suppose they like having “pastors” who don’t demonstrate Christlikeness, who don’t exhort them to holy living … perhaps it makes them feel better about themselves. Actors like Boles would have no stage if it weren’t for a cheering audience who buy tickets to see them perform.

  10. I am absolutely disgusted by this entire account. To hear this man was sitting for 20/30 years hearing Dustin recount stories of his rape? Him calling youth students out on their attributes? And all the guys (pastors!! elders!???) sitting around without issue?

    This is disgusting. This is literally what people are talking about when they mention ‘rape culture’. Nobody thought Dustin should report his prior crimes? Nobody thought (until quite late!) that maybe he shouldn’t be a &&&&&& pastor????

    What is wrong with literally all of these people? I’m glad pastor dewayne eventually made a point of it, but I’m a little confused about the timeline. It seems to have taken him until he had suffered personal and professional repercussions. I hope he realizes now that thats…not great.

  11. Victim number 1: The statute of limitations, for me, in MS is 3 years. So, he waited exactly 3 years to start a church. After I can’t do anything legally. I filed a police report but they said without “penetration” there was nothing else I could do.

    Wow. Is this the reason for acts 20 3 year rule? Ugh.

    I am so sorry.

  12. Lea,

    Exactly. This is so disturbing. I’m very concerned that this pastor hasn’t called police to report Dustin in TX. He needs to do so immediately. Or He could use NCMEC cyber tipline to report.

  13. Justine,

    The hiating church,after much contact and talk from a few local people, changed their minds. Also, a vote had not even been taken bg y that church body to approve the use of the buildings! Dustin announced it like it was already set in stone, which is a classic move on his part.

  14. “One of the elders, D, allegedly told Jade that Dustin didn’t molest her.. He was merely *courting* her. He allegedly claimed she had an affair with Dustin and even appeared to allege that she was to blame.”

    Profoundly illogical (assuming this is true).

    -Boles is married.

    -Married people don’t “court.”

    -“Courtship” is led by the male (usually the young woman’s father), not the female.

    -“Dustin didn’t molest her.. He was merely *courting* her” rather clearly paints Dustin as the aggressor.

    -Affairs are not a one-way street; Boles would have had to cooperate, i.e., commit adultery.

    -Pastors are not to be sexually involved with church members.

    At best, the elder was protecting a married pastor too weak to fight off the advances of a member. Too bad he contradicts himself.

  15. Lea,

    I asked that everyone commenting understand that he has called attention to himself and he is deeply sorry that he didn’t do the right thing. he has said that over and over.

    As for the legal thing, I can assure that this has been looked at by all involved. They cannot comment on that at this time.

    Thankfully, times are beginning to change and we are uncovering a long buried culture. I’m grateful that people are starting to come forward to talk about this. This pastor made a huge sacrifice that I cannot discuss. Remember, I know lots more and I am impressed by his willingness to speak.

    As you all know, I am a victim’s advocate and put myself on the line a lot. There is a reason for my admiration for this man. He is willing to take the hits on his lack of action back then. he is offering an insight that few people, who were not honest, would give us. The victims are also grateful for him as well.
    He is adding more information In order to help them.

    Please show him some grace.

  16. Since the victim is speaking, let me chime in. There is a three year rule in Mississippi on being able to deal with this situation. Mississippi is different if it was a child who was molested. I will be updating the story of Leann whose remarkable phone call decades to her abuser was featured on this blog. Finally, the wheels off law enforcement are moving and we will have a hopeful update.

    Many states have SOL laws which need to be changed. It sometimes takes many years for victims to process what has actually happened to them. Jules Woodson’s story is a great example. In fact, one of the victims realized this after only a few years. Sadly MS laws are a bit behind current understanding of sex abuse.

    Women who are abused are often shamed as is the case in this situation. Read what the elder allegedly told one of the victims. The abuser was merely courting her!!!!

    Being molested is damaging and has caused much suffering for the victims. We all need ot be careful in how we communicate our thoughts when the victims are listening as they are on this blog.

    Everyone process molestation in different fashion. Some may come out swinging but that is not the case for most women if my experience in writing for 10 years has any bearing.

    I salute the victims and the pastor who are coming forward now. They have all been fearful of the response they would receive.

    I’m asking for sensitivity in this matter.I

  17. Two comments by Ann for Biloxi not approved due to a violation of TWW’s prime directive. First express love and concern for the victims before launching into a tirade.

    I will be answering Ann’s thoughts one by one this afternoon in a series of comments. her thoughts reflect the exceedingly poor teaching that she has received in the faith.. Maybe I can help her grow in understanding about a number of issues.

  18. Dustin’s telling dirty stories has a pattern to them. He’s trying to see how far he could get, just like rubbing Jade’s leg at the beach. Has he blackmailed them to keep tight? Was the rich donor who dance super close to his wife blackmailed into further donations? That’s him and his wife’s modis operandi, set up, attack, manipulate. Even though Jade had no further physical contact with Boles after the condo rape, he was reliving it when he talked to her during those “chance” meetings in the park.

    As far as Pastor Dewayne’s firing, and I understand that he was fired before sending a letter to the church elders, could the real excuse be that they felt Pastor DeWayne was a liability to them?

  19. dee: her thoughts reflect the exceedingly poor teaching that she has received in the faith

    That’s a good description of the New Calvinist (poor) teaching program at SBC church plants near me. Extremely shallow stuff which doesn’t create disciples of Christ … flesh babies who never grow up in the Spirit. They hop to the beat of the drum on Sunday, but can’t walk straight on Monday.

  20. Brian: That’s him and his wife’s modus operandi, set up, attack, manipulate.

    They probably laughed frequently at nights as they reflected on how good they were at deceiving and fleecing the sheep. They are getting once again to get the shears out with their new church plant in Ocean Springs … they’ll be laughing all the way to the bank soon.

  21. Dee: Please show him some grace.

    I am willing to show DeWayne some grace. Somehow he was blind to his old roomie’s apparent depravity and decades-long obsessions. Now he sees a glimmer of light.

    People in closed systems can have a complete lack of perspective. They grow up innocent in the church, get an insider job, and discover what things are really like—or so they tragically and wrongly assume. Or maybe they just can’t believe their ears.

    I feel safe in saying I’ve never belonged to a church that would tolerate the filthy words ascribed to Dustin Boles. My childhood churches had Victorian levels of discomfort about sexual talk. Any pastor who blabbed endlessly about female anatomy would have disqualified himself among other pastors. Nowadays, such talk would be considered unholy and/or dehumanizing. (Again, I’m only describing churches I have attended.)

    Sometimes a perv is cunning enough to hide his actions. Dustin Boles appears to have littered his relationships with clues. As disturbing as this is, at least a trail of evidence exists.

  22. “The Gospel Coalition posted their ode to Acts 29. How Acts 29 Survived—and Thrived—After the Collapse of Mars Hill. Apparently, they believe that Matt Chandler of The Village Church was the savior of that organization after Mark Driscoll stepped down in 2013”

    It should be clear by now that there are systemic problems with Acts 29 (and the New Calvinist movement at large) which catalyze/energize bad-boys like Boles. Chandler has demonstrated by his poor response to the cries of abuse victims within his own church that he is part of the problem, not someone on a mission from God to rescue wayward Acts 29 leaders from their moral decline.

  23. Friend,

    That’s how predators operate in families also, with some members thinking as Friend just described Pastor DeWayne.

  24. Friend: Somehow he was blind to his old roomie’s apparent depravity and decades-long obsessions.

    he has admitted his failings in this area and knows it was wrong. He is even willing to tell this in the court of public opinion. How many of us would be willing to do the same when it comes to our failings. This is a show of true repentance.

    Friend: I feel safe in saying I’ve never belonged to a church that would tolerate the filthy words ascribed to Dustin Boles.

    Is that because you were smarter than everyone else in the early stages of life? Also, how do you know that the people in churches didn’t have similar problems but were more circumspect in how they acted? I still remember telling my mom, after a couple of years of being a visiting nurse in Salem that “You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.”

  25. Reagan,

    Correct. I met with the church, personally. They were *wonderful.* They had *no* idea Dustin had posted their church address on his page announcing they would have services there. No contract was even signed. They were considering but had not made a decision. He jumped the gun on that one. They believe Dustin has a lot of work to do before becoming a pastor again. True repentance needs to happen, which would include admitting and apologizing to his victims. Which he has not. They were under the impression, from Dustin, that no pain was left in his victims. Everything has been restored. Once finding out the truth, they revoked their building and stand with the victims. They were truly wonderful to us and we are so grateful. They saw the pain I still hold and were so gracious, to me.

  26. Response to Ann: The theology of forgiveness:

    So, if a person confesses to God that they are sorry, it’s over and done with? Then why does Scripture often talk about leaving your sacrifices at the altar and go to the offended brother? I actually believe that people love to talk about God’s forgiveness and forget about the work that is required of them. There is no evidence of repentance until he goes to those that he has offended and worked it out. But, that has NOT occurred. So many people like to acquire cheap grace and forgiveness because not doing so is too hard and too convicting.

  27. Response to Ann: Forgiveness does not mean return to the pulpit.

    Read your Bible carefully. You are missing a big step in this process. After doing the hard work of repairing broken relationships, the former pastor gets to come back to church and participate in communion as a fully restored member of the body of Christ. That means he is just a member NOT a pastor

    Perhaps you believe that every pastor who sexually assaults a person should be forgiven and returned to the pulpit. I bet you support the laws that send a licensed counselors to prison for sexually molesting clients. I bet you would say the same things about a teacher. Recently, a 21 year old teacher developed s sexual relationship with an 18 year old high school student. She was caught. His parents and the young man said they approved of this relationship. Law enforcement though otherwise. She was convicted and sent to prison.

    Yet a pastor who is often involved in counseling vulnerable and wounded people gets a pass because he says he’s sorry? More states are beginning to understand this dynamic. Texas and other states now have laws that consider such actions by a pastor a crime.

    You exhibit something my husband often asks. Why does the church appear to have lower standards than secular groups? In his profession, if he did what Boles is alleged to have done, he would lose his job and his license. He would never be able to practice his professions again. I bet you would nod vigorously if you heard about such things in the news. Yet, you give this guy a pass because of what exactly?

    To make matters worse, you appear to overlook the lengthy history of Boles in these matters. Do you really think 3 years away has cured him?

    In some ways I don’t blame your Bible light explanation of what happened. It appears you have hung around churches which appear to offer and accept cheap grace and forgiveness. Maybe that’s because it makes life easier for you.

  28. dee: Is that because you were smarter than everyone else in the early stages of life?

    No, Dee, I wasn’t any smarter than anyone else, probably far dumber than many. I’m sorry that my comment left an arrogant impression. I was trying to show some support for DeWayne.

    So let me try again, please. Dustin Boles is, I believe, an outlier in evil, and even more of an outlier in blabbing about it. Evil is usually hidden much better, but at least the shocking clues might help in this case. Is that more clear? I sincerely hope so. The story is emerging, and we are trying to understand it. I apologize for adding to the distress.

  29. Friend: Somehow he was blind to his old roomie’s apparent depravity and decades-long obsessions.

    I’ve been thinking about this. While we are aware of the grooming process of predators to victims and even their parents sometimes, is there such a process between a predator and his/her long-time, trusted friend? A similar method of gaining trust, friendship, and even confide in with secrets of unacceptable behavior. Information or secrets shared a little at a time so gradual the friend is somewhat unaware the friendship is being tested/groomed by continuing to listen to the vulgarity being expressed?

    Just wondering….

  30. ION: Culture

    Wartburgers will be distressed to learn that an 18-carat solid gold toilet has been stolen from an exhibition at Blenheim Palace today.

    Blenheim Palace was previously best known as the birthplace of Winston Churchill, but is now famous as the place whence someone made off with an absurdly expensive toilet that must weigh the best part of a ton (AWWBA, gold is almost three times as dense as steel and nearly eight times denser than porcelain, the material most traditionally associated with toilets). I’m not entirely sure how that’s even possible.

  31. Victorious: While we are aware of the grooming process of predators to victims and even their parents sometimes, is there such a process between a predator and his/her long-time, trusted friend?

    I do think this is part of it.

    I have heard people talk of people who tell little bad stuff to different people to see if they accept it. But this close friendship between two pastors, agreeing to work for him, naming him godparent to your children, in the face of ‘dirty talk’ about previous rapes and current sexualizing of young girls in youth group? That was a lot to read this morning. I had a very shaken reaction to it, and the thought of just how many of these guy are having these worse than sleazy conversations and just kind of ho humming about them.

    I certainly hope dee is right and that he fully realizes how wrong this really was. This is not a judgement i’m making, but a reaction to the full details and I think it’s appropriate.

  32. Victorious,

    I should also say I think this is why people are all ‘that’s just how bob is’ when it turns out one of their friends is absolutely terrible. They got exposed to the terrible little by little and have dismissed it. It helps because it isn’t likely directed at them, especially when we are dealing with misogyny.

  33. Victorious: the grooming process of predators

    Grooming of not only victims, but of a community.
    Case in point: Jerry Sandusky at a University.
    More recent: Jeffrey Epstein & Science, Academic communities.
    Even bigger film community: Harvey Weinstein.
    The public-at-large, TV community: Bill Cosby.
    Global church networks: Bill Hybels.
    His latest church, applauding him: Andy Savage.
    A university & church networks: Falwell, Jr.
    Wheaton & the Evangelical community: Prof. Gilbert Bilezikian.
    The Evangelical community: Ravi Z.
    The Justice for Sankey case w/groomed churches supporting predators.

    Etc.
    There are groomed communities which predators use as their Hunting Grounds.
    Predators project an image the community will embrace.
    Predators hide behind the image for access to prey upon victims.
    The community supports/embraces the predator & gaslights the victims.
    Wolf-kings in sheep’s clothing.

  34. Victorious: While we are aware of the grooming process of predators to victims and even their parents sometimes, is there such a process between a predator and his/her long-time, trusted friend?

    I have no insight into DeWayne’s experience and don’t want to cause any further distress.

    I do know something about the general ways of predators. In person they use animal magnetism, deception, fear, and promises (usually empty). They do what it takes to protect themselves and gain access to prey. “You’re the only person I can talk to” is burdensome and seductive to the predator’s friend. It can turn into blackmail: “What if it gets out that you knew?” Lunch can turn into guilt by association. Meanwhile the predator might be lining up jobs for people, funding the right causes, climbing socially, shaking hands with the mayor. In extreme cases, his downfall might discredit members of royal families and cause Harvard to look with dismay at multi-million-dollar donations.

  35. My main supporting church when I went off to be a missionary overseas in the 80s totally blew up over the adulterous affairs of the pastor, who was covering up for a youth pastor who abused the boys on his sports team. I know I’ve shared this before, but what I NEVER got was how many people “knew” something, but were either covering for the men (they felt sorry for them, hoped they would get “better”-?????, didn’t want to hurt their families), or were afraid that the church would be hurt worse if they lost their pastor or a family lost a father (yes, a father who is a serial child sex abuser). The pastor wouldn’t have gone to jail for being a serial adulterer, but the youth pastor would have if he had been reported. Because no one said anything, he was able to move out of state, and the statue of limitations is long since past. IF people with real knowledge (not hunches or gossip) would speak up in the church, so much grief could be avoided. I understand why it can be hard for the victims to speak up, especially if their safety is at stake, but if my best friend were talking to me about sexually explicit actions with someone in the church, how they beat their wife/kid, or anything similar, I would say something to someone (and outside the church if a minor were involved). We do have better ways to report now, and church members need to speak up when they suspect something is going on. 40 years ago, as a new teacher, I had a little girl who was always in the bathroom. I suspected an infection, and reported it to the school nurse (this was a school where folks were poor and did not have health insurance). That one report generated a checkup on my student and her first grade sister, who had gonorrhea (her sister was in the bathroom all the time to make sure she wasn’t “sick”, too). Arrests were made and stuff happened because I reported something innocent-new teacher with a sick student.Sometimes speaking up makes all the difference in the world. I’ve had to make some reports since that long ago time, being a mandated reporter, but I would never think not to make them. People need help, and often they can not help themselves.

  36. Dee…. you nailed it when you said that secular organizations have higher standards than the churches in all these stories. Most companies have “zero tolerance” policies and that sometimes means you can also be fired for simply knowing something and not addressing it. This may be why a lot of these men do not get “real jobs”…. they know that they will be held accountable.

    This is a very disturbing story and I hope this guy and the people around him go down. I do not condone violence or taking the law into your own hands. But part of me thinks that being horsewhipped in the town square would do them some good. It would certainly cause a man like Dustin to think twice before bragging about his exploits. Maybe I have watched too many old westerns.

  37. George,

    I was thinking along similar direction. After 3 years attending a Christian college, I have now been in the secular humanist world for 38 years. I have never heard anyone talk like this Dustin Boles “pastor”…. not at work, not at meetings, not in bars/clubs after meetings…. a few “off color things, sure” but not anywhere near the level of depravity above, let alone the physical abuse…..
    i am sure all kinds of “stuff” goes on in my “world”…. but perps are smart enough to keep there mouth Shut..

    The American Church, in general, seems to have no standards for its leaders???

  38. Victim 1: Once finding out the truth, they revoked their building and stand with the victims.

    As they should! Because you made a stand, “Pastor” Boles has been denied his church launch tomorrow.

    “If their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop it” (Acts 5:38-39)

    The launch was stopped. This activity failed. It was not of God.

  39. I think the previous comments concerning grooming of friends and communities are spot on. The pastor predator is carefully grooming all around him to get away with his misdeeds. Just one example, my former pastor kept us from asking hard questions – and we had many! – by always thanking us for being the only couple who did not call him on Monday to complain about the sermon. How hard it was to have everyone always demanding explanations. Guess how that made us feel? Like we did not dare add to his burden. So we kept our doubts and concerns to ourselves. Now I’m guessing he used that same exact line on others. I wonder how many were ‘the only ones who never complain’?

    I recall frequent odd, out of the blue comments, that seemed so out of place. I would think, ‘What was that all about?’ but because I was not ‘on guard’ it never occurred to me to keep track of all those ‘odd’ moments, but just let them go. Only later did I realize he was seeding us with explanations in case certain things ever came to light.

    I definitely think these predators manipulate, guilt, use emotional blackmail, and every other trick in the book to control people.

  40. GBTC-
    I know who this guy is. He’s a troll who spends his life going thru servers all over the world attempting to sneak his way onto the blog. You made his day by approving him. Bless is heart-this is his accomplishment for Jesus… He’ll be buying rounds at the next ARBCA conference.

    I put him into spam.

  41. Eli:
    What horrific rot. Thank you, Pastor DeWayne.

    Why on earth should Dustin Boles be a pastor??

    He’s God’s Special Pet, Predestined Elect before the creation of the world.

  42. Jeffrey Chalmers: I was thinking along similar direction. After 3 years attending a Christian college, I have now been in the secular humanist world for 38 years. I have never heard anyone talk like this Dustin Boles “pastor”…. not at work, not at meetings, not in bars/clubs after meetings….

    Not in 20+ years around Furry Fandom, which DOES have major problems with porn obsessions and attracting sexual predators.

    I’ve got a dirty mouth in person, but THAT is WAY beyond “dirty mouth”. That is a RAPIST getting re-aroused by reciting his Verbal Trophies. “Trophies” like a serial killer’s — he handles (or in Boles’ case recites) the Trophy and gets off on reliving the memory.

  43. dee,

    Welcome to the realities of having to be responsible when you provide a place for people to vent. The issues are real but it is really very easy to go too far with things. You can see it yourself with things you are very familiar with. But what happens when others are the ones more familiar and you are the one making a snap judgment of a person or group that you really know nothing at all about?

    In hindsight what DeWayne did was a mistake for many years and he is man enough to come public about that. Most of the people commenting regularly have learned things the hard way, rather it is through church situations that headed south like with you, or charities that are scams and involved in child molestation up to their ears like with me. Doing things the right way is not easy and no one comes out of the womb doing everything right. We do need to show grace to each other and not to expect a quick easy perfection.

    The problem is with people claiming to be Christians but are really narcissists and machs. These people are in most every denomination under the sun. That is the problem. It is not Calvinism per say or Charismatics or other flavors of Christian practice and theology. Some of these make it easier in some ways for the wicked wolves to have access, but to demonize whole groups of Christians, many of whom are just deceived as we once were, is certainly a bridge too far.

    On this blog, the tendency is to go too far in ways like these. But that does not help the victims recover, which is my concern. The greatest threat to this blog is not from without but from within. I say that because I have seen this kind of thing happen before. It is the pride of man that goes before the fall, and it is all too easy to think too much of yourself, which is all that is required.

    Perhaps you should step in more often to curb conversations that happen here, and they are often, that actually do go too far just like the one you just did. Just my opinion. I think the constant drum on the new Calvinists does just that. It is a civil war against the wrong enemy. The problem is hypocrisy of calling out them for doing the same thing we do. We do not fight against flesh and blood but with rulers of the principalities that we cannot see. They are the ones behind the scenes pulling the strings and promoting falsehood and the worst characters they can find for church leaders.

  44. TS00: The pastor predator …

    … is a wicked species unlike any other, a depraved spiritual sickness, an ungodly human condition which will be judged severely by Holy God.

  45. Jeffrey Chalmers: The American Church, in general, seems to have no standards for its leaders???

    The “Church” definitely has a holy standard set forth in Scripture for both pulpit and pew. The “church”, on the other hand, is a law unto itself. The “church” – in its various manifestations in America and elsewhere – is clearly not the “Church”.

  46. Jeffrey Chalmers:

    I was thinking along similar direction. After 3 years attending a Christian college, I have now been in the secular humanist world for 38 years. I have never heard anyone talk like this Dustin Boles “pastor”…. not at work, not at meetings, not in bars/clubs after meetings…. a few “off color things, sure” but not anywhere near the level of depravity above, let alone the physical abuse…..
    i am sure all kinds of “stuff” goes on in my “world”…. but perps are smart enough to keep there mouth Shut..

    The American Church, in general, seems to have no standards for its leaders???

    I work for an evil too big to fail financial institution, have for over 20 years, and we joke around in the office. We’ve got to have some relief in between those moments of terror around bank issues. (Terror = there is something interfering with your unfettered ability to access your money and we’ve got to fix it before you notice.) But it’s never anything sexual or off-color. The closest we’ve gotten was a few weeks back when a new manager tried to make a joke about an analyst who is currently transitioning and is on a leave of absence. I let this person know the remarks were out of line. (It wasn’t a sexual joke, either, it was more like a “this is weird” joke.) But I have NEVER, EVER heard that kind of speech as reported about Dustin Boles above in a work environment at the bank. It would be completely unacceptable, out of line, and would get you written up.

    But truly, we have to take a sexual harassment training every year and this year’s training was pretty darn thorough in letting us know what isn’t acceptable. And unlike almost all of our other trainings, it came from outside the bank. (The other outside training is about violence in the workplace.) So this is something that big employers are taking seriously. I’d note that the sexual harassment training would probably flip the wigs of the average Evangelical pastor since the training is very clear there can be harassment of sexual minorities in the work environment and it is unacceptable. Many Evangelical pastors probably think of sexual harassment in terms of harassing lower-down female staff. They’re hard-pressed to acknowledge that LGBTQ+ people exist, as this training does. No, this very sober, very businesslike training would probably freak them out.

    I’ve said for years that pastors need to work out in the real world for a couple of years, and part of that, whether they sold cars or rang people up at Mall*Wart or worked the overnight shift at the Stop’n’Rob, is they’d have to go through some sort of training that would let them know what is unacceptable behavior. It’s apparent that pastors aren’t getting this kind of training. *facepalm*

  47. Mr. Jesperson,

    Much of what you say is baloney .You do not know what helps victims on this blog or any other. You are merely a passive observer who believes that you hold the keys to prophesy and exhortation. You’ve even admitted you have some gifts.. I’m sorry if I have stated your *gifting* erroneously. I have a hard time keeping up with those particulars..

    I’ve told you before that you should start your own blog. You don’t get what is happening here. Your comment is inappropriate given the fact that there are victims reading his post and you have decided to make this about me.

    Get something straight. I am one of the few people out there who actually goes to bat for victims, even when it is risky and it is really risky in ways you can’t even imagine because I don’t talk a lot about that stuff. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and what I have to deal with in that arena. One day that story for this situation will be told.

    I don’t have time to monitor and control the conversations of everyone who comes here. Most people are adults and want to have different sorts of discussions. So long as they lay off the victims and don’t get excessively nasty, I let them be.

    It is obvious from your *exhortation* that you don’t get me. So until the day you actually take the time to get to know how hard it is to manage a blog like this on my own (except for GBTC) without taking any renumeration in the form of ads or kickbacks, you need to lay off.

    Do some investigation and try to figure out how one person can handle speaking with victims and looking at their stories; speaking with other victims of abuse who need some help but are not ready to speak, continue to support those whose stories I’ve told, keep up with what is going in the world of faith, how to answering 1000 emails, deciding if I will approve some comments, make calls to churches, supervise comments, speak with media ad other bloggers to help in their investigations, and still keep up with caring for my elderly mother, my household and contributing my presence in volunteering at my church which I actually do with a weekly commitment to help out with midweek meetings of children , studying the Bible and helping my neighborhood with some local initiatives.Frankly, it is overwhelming and I know that I fail to do all of it well. I am simply trying my best and am sorry if it doesn’t meet your high standards.

    I’ve got a great idea. Why don’t you spend some time and pray for me and for the victims. You want a ministry? That one would work. And while you’re at it, try to figure out why you have successfully miffed me off. We will NOT continue this discussion on the blog post. There are some victims who are hurting and you are doing NOTHING to move that discussion along or to try to bring them some comfort.

  48. Dee: Mr. Jesperson,

    Much of what you say is baloney .You do not know what helps victims on this blog or any other. You are merely a passive observer who believes that you hold the keys to prophesy and exhortation. You’ve even admitted you have some gifts.. I’m sorry if I have stated your *gifting* erroneously. I have a hard time keeping up with those particulars..

    I’ve always gotten a vibe of something subtly WRONG with Jesperson’s comments. (Besides my deja vu familiarity with the name.) Smug? Deliberately dense? Utterly serene in Always Being Right? Pushing buttons for the amusement value? Or something else? Whatever it is, like Calvary Chapel there is nothing I can put my finger on and say “AHA!”

  49. Max: … is a wicked species unlike any other, a depraved spiritual sickness, an ungodly human condition which will be judged severely by Holy God.

    Where and When, Max?

    These guys have to be seen to lose and lose hard. In public. Otherwise all we’re doing is sitting quietly with folded hands uttering Pious Platitudes in fluent Christianese.

  50. TS00: it never occurred to me to keep track of all those ‘odd’ moments, but just let them go. Only later did I realize he was seeding us with explanations in case certain things ever came to light.

    Grooming you as allies and supporters, one teeny-tiny drop of poison at a time until you were needed. Then he pushes those pre-groomed buttons and you jump joyfully with great enthusiasm to defend him.

    I once saw a sociopath spend OVER TEN YEARS grooming third-parties in a Long Game revenge plan (“She should have been Nice to Me when I Gave Her The Chance.”), one little “odd moment” by little “odd moment” over those years. By the time he sprung the trap (OVER TEN YEARS LATER) at his own wedding, the target has nowhere to turn, only stand there and take it with all the third parties joining in. And the sociopath smelled like roses.

  51. George,

    “Most companies have “zero tolerance” policies and that sometimes means you can also be fired for simply knowing something and not addressing it. This may be why a lot of these men do not get “real jobs”…. they know that they will be held accountable.”
    +++++++++++

    i think the song in their heart is “i’m too sexy for my shirt”. they’re too “yes, i really am all that” to work as the commoners do. it’s simply beneath them. (some at least)

    for others, i think they get used to the imaginary idea that the imaginary mantle they imagining-ly wear is so weighty in ultimate importance, and so weighty in literal heavy weightiness.

    it’s what makes them believe they are engaging in hard work as they while away at the coffee place ‘thinking’, as they go on all-expense-paid pleasure cruises doing ‘ministry’ (big sarcastic-ironic emoji face here), as they go on ‘trips to the holy land’, as they play ministry golf, as they jet-set around and speak canned sermons with a high price tag and bring their families along for an all-expense-paid trip of recreation, and many other leisurely things i observe professional christians doing that they consider burdensome work.

    their professional christian job is just too important to work as the gospel-commoners do.

  52. Another comment for Ann of Biloxi

    You mentioned that there are people attending this church who are not foolish or insane. I bet they are really, really nice people that you think you know. Except, you don’t. 100 people have been arrested in Ohio for sex trafficking and child porn. These are some of the *best* people of the area…a doctor, a pastor, a firefighter. etc.Wake up and smell the coffee.
    https://buff.ly/2URqPbT

  53. For Ann of Biloxi

    You know, I think I will be using you as example from now on.*Ann of Biloxi* has a ring to it. So, how do we know that Dustin hasn’t repented? So do you actually think or just spout out words like repentance, forgiveness, whatever. Now, you’ve probably attended churches that encourage this sort of knee jerk, spout the words, easy believism based on cheap grace and cheap forgiveness. Don’t think…it might mess up your paradigm.

    Wake up! Boles has not repented because he has not gone to his victims to reconcile. Did they teach that in this church you attend? Until he does what he should have done, especially since he is a pastor and a supposed role model, he’s not repentant.

    I implore you to find a church with thoughtful exegesis as opposed to catchy songs and cutesy sermons, reassuring you that you are all just wonderful people.

  54. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I’ve said for years that pastors need to work out in the real world for a couple of years, and part of that, whether they sold cars or rang people up at Mall*Wart or worked the overnight shift at the Stop’n’Rob, is they’d have to go through some sort of training that would let them know what is unacceptable behavior. It’s apparent that pastors aren’t getting this kind of training. *facepalm*

    Some I know who have to ‘endure’ this kind of ‘politically correct’ training, absolutely hate it. They feel they are denied their personal right to disapprove of homosexuality or reject other culturally progressive trends.

    I have good friends on both ends of the cultural perspective. I do believe it is increasingly challenging to hold conservative viewpoints in a culturally progressive world. Personally, I may not buy into all that is currently acceptable, but I have no patience for a church that loudly declares other people’s behavior sin while hiring pastors like Dustin Boles, Mark Driscoll and the like.

    Even if not personally indiscreet sexually, too many of these pastors are perfectly happy to treat women like non-people, or overlook the abusive actions of anyone who holds the ‘right’ doctrine. I have a serious problem with this, along with all other blatant hypocrisy.

    These are difficult days for those trying to understand what God truly wants from us, wherever you fall on the spectrum of beliefs. Even if one can grant to old school thinkers that there may be some justification for believing scripture prohibits certain practices that have become culturally acceptable, we must still look to Jesus for how God handles such things.

    When confronted with the woman caught in adultery, did he urge the oh so righteous Pharisees to cast their stones? On the other hand, did he tell the woman, ‘Those guys just don’t get it. Feel free to do whatever’? The versions I have read has him saying something like: ‘Go and sin no more’.

    In other words, whatever the ‘sin’ issue, the person entangled is what matters to God. The reason God condemns particular behaviors is that he deems them destructive to the people involved, not because he is an egomaniac who can’t stand being challenged. Too many churches seem to be getting this backwards, overlooking the ‘sin’ of the rulers while devaluing the victims.

    Basic respect would make most sensitivity training unnecessary. If we value, and treat with respect, people who may not believe the same things about right and wrong as we do, we will not, for the most part, making one another feel threatened.

    Can, and has, the pendulum swung too far? If people are not granted just as much right to disapprove a behavior as approve of it, then I would say yes. There have long been people who viewed all sex as something less than good, and held to the belief that celibacy is the most righteous way to live. We do not have to agree, or affirm their choice, to allow such people to do as their own consciences lead.

    We may have to set ground rules for how people holding diverse views in a pluralistic society live respectfully with one another, but it does not require that we choose the ‘winners’ and condemn all other viewpoints as unacceptable.

    Even when I do not necessarily agree with their views, I do sympathize with those who feel they are not allowed the freedom of conscience and religion that our constitution supposedly grants to all alike. People have as much of a right to disapprove of homosexuality, and even teach such disapproval, as they do to affirm it. But views can be held without hating, attacking or attempting to control those who see things differently.

  55. TS00,

    Should be ‘both views can be held without hating, attacking or attempting to control those who see things differently.’

  56. elastigirl: their professional christian job is just too important to work as the gospel-commoners do.

    They sell the commoners sweet dreams.
    That’s what they do.
    And they’re good at it.
    Remember the old Eurythmics song?

    Sweet dreams are made of this
    Who am I to disagree?
    I travel the world
    And the seven seas,
    Everybody’s looking for something.
    Some of them want to use you
    Some of them want to get used by you
    Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused.

    It’s a lot like that.

  57. Victim number 1,

    Thank you for responding and I am truly sorry about this whole mess and the damage that it has caused in the lives of so many. The fact that you filed a report took A LOT OF COURAGE and I applaud you. I can share with you that I understand the shame of not wanting to speak out about abuse. Imagine how many people have suffered some sort of abuse and will never speak about it. Sincerely 🙂

  58. Max: Hopefully, both Here and There.

    I agree with you, Max. Unfortunately, there might not be justice in this life, but there will certainly be justice in the end. If I remember Revelation correctly, it involves a lake of fire.

  59. Muff Potter: Remember the old Eurythmics song?
    Sweet dreams are made of this
    Who am I to disagree?
    I travel the world
    And the seven seas,
    Everybody’s looking for something.
    Some of them want to use you
    Some of them want to get used by you
    Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused.
    It’s a lot like that.

    I agree with you, Muff. I also remember that the video for this song is the only one to my knowledge that cattle are featured prominently.

  60. Headless Unicorn Guy: I’ve got a dirty mouth in person, but THAT is WAY beyond “dirty mouth”. That is a RAPIST getting re-aroused by reciting his Verbal Trophies.

    I know alot of people who are tacky about sex. I can’t remember anybody making jokes about a time they raped a person.

    I can’t help but think the focus on ‘sex is bad’ vs consent has warped the thinking of a lot of these people. They can be ‘intrigued’ by talk of sex as if it is ‘scandalous’ or whatever, without stopping to say hey, he’s not just talking about sex. He’s talking about rape and that is a Problem. That needs fixing.

  61. dee,

    In regards to the Ohio sex trafficking sting, do medical organizations and governmental agencies have procedures in place to do an investigation of the arrested or convicted employee if they had contact with other children as part of their work?

  62. Muff Potter,

    “They sell the commoners sweet dreams.
    That’s what they do.
    And they’re good at it.
    Remember the old Eurythmics song?”
    ++++++++++++++++

    yes, good way to put it. and i think i like annie lennox even more now. as if her version of jazz standard Summertime wasn’t enough.

    (i won’t put the link, out of consideration for our gracious bloghost and GBTC. but i think i can say ‘not a soul on earth would be disappointed listening to that one’.)

  63. “So what happens when the pastor becomes the problem? Who do the church members or subordinate pastors turn to for help?”

    Dee, the abundance of fervent prayer avails much. Scripture is inclined to bear witness…

  64. Sòpwith: “So what happens when the pastor becomes the problem? Who do the church members or subordinate pastors turn to for help?”

    Dee, the abundance of fervent prayer avails much. Scripture is inclined to bear witness…

    Prayer AND call the cops.

  65. For ‘Ann of Biloxi’ – read this article. https://www.convergemagazine.com/when-we-talk-about-sexual-abuse/

    For context – here are some highlights:

    “Again, as Christians we explicitly affirm and believe in God’s radical forgiveness…..Don’t waste my time, or others, trying to enter the conversation with something we all affirm as Christians: that God can forgive his creations the most reprehensible actions. We agree. Let’s move on.”

    “….And, in the case of sexual offenders or abusers, how can we know who has been transformed to the degree that they would never again violate the vulnerable?…..According to Boz Tchividjian, “the new man” argument is a common tactic used by sex offenders to manipulate and separate themselves from their past behaviors and therefore their responsibility. When we affirm this “new man” stuff in reference to known sex offenders we are misapplying Scripture in ways that create a dangerous environment for the vulnerable…….Among other things, sex offenders need people who will not minimize their actions, devalue the victims, shift blame to victims, and who will recognize their victim-stancing.”

    Ann – There are requirements for pastors/elders (I Timothy 3:1-7). Dustin Boles is no longer qualified to hold the office of pastor/elder because he has failed to uphold those standards. Furthermore, he has devoured the very sheep he had a sacred duty to protect. That is the most heinous of crimes that a clergyman can commit. In the state where I reside (Texas) the same laws that apply to therapists, teachers, medical professionals, apply equally to clergy – WHY? Because there is a power imbalance in the relationship & when that is present, there is no consent possible for the victim, regardless of age. What Dustin Boles did was a crime in 13 states, and if Florida had had clergy abuse laws, he could have been prosecuted. I hope that this case will prompt the citizens of Florida (and Mississippi) to enact similar laws to protect congregants from predator pastors and bring justice to those who are harmed by them.

    Based on Dee’s comments, it appears you have a very low capacity for insight on the issue of clergy sex abuse and it would serve you and these potential new congregants of Vintage Church well to educate yourselves and not be deceived by this wolf in sheeps clothing. He is a sick man in need of specialized therapy, not a new pulpit.

  66. Thought: Could have Dustin Boles been groomed to become a predator? In the same sense an alcoholic mother gets her 15 year old daughter a fake ID so together they can go out to the bars and clubs?

    Dustin’s stepfather provided the “endless stream” of porn. Booze and drugs, were they provided by the stepfather too?

    I’m making no excuses for Dustin Boles. I’m just wondering if this was a case of nurture, not nature.

  67. I’ve been super busy this weekend, but have been looking in occasionally.

    I’m so tired of “cheap” forgiveness. It’s meaningless. People forget that Jesus asked people to repent, and that means to turn around and go the other way. It’s a very visible life change. People don’t just say sorry; they make extensive amends.

    The current church’s idea of forgiveness is to pretend nothing happened, so nothing ever changes. God’s not in denial; it’s just another form of lying. It allows predator pastors like Tullian Tchividjian to use naive Christians for their money and adoration.

    Another person I know has been arrested on charges related to sexual abuse of children. This was a “church” person. I know the family well. These kinds of evils is what the cheap forgiveness of the church is producing.

  68. Ken P.: there will certainly be justice in the end

    Folks like Boles have no fear of God … it’s the predestined/elected thing gone amiss.

  69. Brian: I’m just wondering if this was a case of nurture, not nature.

    I would say most predators are a combination of nature and nurture. They still make choices though.

  70. Max: Folks like Boles have no fear of God …

    No they do not.
    Nor do they have a conscience and a moral compass as we know them.

  71. Brian,

    If an alcoholic who was born with a propensity to drink, drives drunk and kills a family, does he still go to prison? Yes. Is it fair? Yes. Why? Does the alcoholic know or understand that it is against the law to drive drunk? Of course he does unless he has a serious psychiatric disorder that does not allow him to understand right from wrong.

    The same goes for a predator or one who chooses to watch child pronography even if he was raised by a father who forced this stuff on hims as a young child. If he has a basic understanding of right and wrong and can articulate an understanding of the law (it is crime) then he is responsible .

    There are many people in this world who were raised by despicable individuals who forced alcohol or drugs on them at an early aes. Ohters who have a propensity to commit heinous acts against child because they are pedophiles. Yet, thy fight the urges because they know it is wrong. Many live courgeously, seeking out help and fighting their pain because they know it is wrong,. The latter are the ones who deserve our respect.

  72. Brian,

    Yes, especially if the employee, like the doctor in this case, is credibly accused. Often the very arrest will cause people to come forward and share some insights that might not have meant as much until the arrest.

  73. Lea: I would say most predators are a combination of nature and nurture. They still make choices though.

    My amateur understanding is that predators avoid unpleasant consequences. They might never develop a conscience, but they will learn to anticipate punishment. Sometimes that means they behave acceptably, and sometimes they protect themselves in elaborate ways.

  74. Max: Folks like Boles have no fear of God … it’s the predestined/elected thing gone amiss.

    After all, when you have a personal Get Out Of Hell Free card signed by God Himself before the creation of the world, Predestined to get away with anything…

  75. Sòpwith: Dee, the abundance of fervent prayer avails much. Scripture is inclined to bear witness…

    Prayer is Christianese for Piously doing nothing and feeling Righteous about it.

  76. Friend: My amateur understanding is that predators avoid unpleasant consequences. They might never develop a conscience, but they will learn to anticipate punishment. Sometimes that means they behave acceptably, and sometimes they protect themselves in elaborate ways.

    Since i’ve been watching mindhunter (and other stuff) I would say it depends on the person? Consequences are pretty much the only tool we have, but there are people who devolve to the point where they just don’t care or who are disorganized from the beginning.

    Boles seems to not have gotten any pushback in telling his just good times rape stories from anyone, though, and he clearly has just continued on his merry way. I think all we *can* do is make this stuff unacceptable but it has to be everyone around him doing it and they clearly just aren’t.

  77. Anna: “According to Boz Tchividjian, “the new man” argument is a common tactic used by sex offenders to manipulate and separate themselves from their past behaviors and therefore their responsibility. When we affirm this “new man” stuff in reference to known sex offenders we are misapplying Scripture in ways that create a dangerous environment for the vulnerable” (Converge Magazine)

    Wise words! There are no examples in the New Testament church of “pastors” who failed morally being restored to the pulpit. However, there are many examples in the 21st century church of a “new man” being restored to ministry who behaved like the “old man” when he returned to ministry. TWW has covered a bunch of them.

  78. Headless Unicorn Guy: a personal Get Out Of Hell Free card signed by God Himself before the creation of the world, Predestined to get away with anything

    Unfortunately, there is too much truth to those words. The New Calvinist movement has certainly had its share of bad-boy elect (Driscoll, MacDonald, Boles, etc.).

  79. Brian: I’m making no excuses for Dustin Boles. I’m just wondering if this was a case of nurture, not nature.

    There is certainly plenty of evidence in America that a person’s background can influence his/her behavior. I live in an area where a culture of abuse has occurred in certain families for generations – from moonshine, to marijuana, to meth. But when it comes to the Kingdom of God, a person is judged for his own sins, not those of his ancestors. There is both a new nurture and a new nature available in the Kingdom, but they must be accessed by the Spirit. When gross habitual sin appears in the life of a professed believer, like Boles, we need to be asking ourselves “Does he have the Holy Spirit? Is he saved?” This is where the rubber of “predestined” theology and “conversion” theology hits the road, IMO.

    God puts it this way:

    “… I will judge each of you by what YOU have done … A son will not be punished for his father’s sins, and a father will not be punished for his son’s sins. The righteousness of the righteous person will be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked person will be his own …” (Ezekiel 18)

  80. “it is important that every church no matter how large or small have a security procedure.” -Jack Graham

  81. A glimpse into Gospel Glitterati excess…

    Joshua Harris just posted photo of pricey sterling silver pen, a gift from T4G:

    https://storiesig.com/stories/harrisjosh

    An Albert Mohler fanboy gushing :

    http://onemantrying.blogspot.com/2010/05/bat-cave-of-evangelicalism.html

    “had the chance to visit Dr. Mohler’s personal library in the basement of his home (what Ligon Duncan refers to as “the bat cave of evangelicalism”)

    “the collectibles were everywhere. In one corner was a pile of leather briefcases ‘to give to friends.’ On a desk were dozens of fountain pens.”

  82. Jerome: An Albert Mohler fanboy gushing …

    Several years ago, I ran across an interview of Al Mohler talking to Greg Gilbert about his new book “What is the Gospel?”

    Gilbert was obviously awestruck to be in the presence of King Mohler. At one point, he responded to a question “Oh, Dr. Mohler, what a sweet question!” That flattery paid off for Mr. Gilbert – he is now prominent within The Gospel Coalition and pastor of Mohler’s church in Louisville. The New Calvinist elite are a mutual admiration society.

    Whew! Idolatry!

  83. Max,

    Maybe they need to pray this Puritan prayer from ‘The Valley of Vision’, as I have just done.
    “O CHANGELESS GOD,

    Under the conviction of thy Spirit I learn that
    the more I do, the worse I am,
    the more I know, the less I know,
    the more holiness I have, the more sinful I am,
    the more I love, the more there is to love.
    O wretched man that I am!
    O Lord,
    I have a wild heart,
    and cannot stand before thee;
    I am like a bird before a man.
    How little I love thy truth and ways!
    I neglect prayer,
    by thinking I have prayed enough and earnestly,
    by knowing thou hast saved my soul.
    Of all hypocrites, grant that I may not be
    an evangelical hypocrite,
    who sins more safely because grace abounds,
    who tells his lusts that Christ’s blood
    cleanseth them,
    who reasons that God cannot cast him into hell,
    for he is saved,
    who loves evangelical preaching, churches,
    Christians, but lives unholily.
    My mind is a bucket without a bottom,
    with no spiritual understanding,
    no desire for the Lord’s Day,
    ever learning but never reaching the truth,
    always at the gospel-well but never holding water.
    My conscience is without conviction or contrition,
    with nothing to repent of.
    My will is without power of decision or resolution.
    My heart is without affection, and full of leaks.
    My memory has no retention,
    so I forget easily the lessons learned,
    and thy truths seep away.
    Give me a broken heart that yet carries home
    the water of grace.”

  84. Jerome: Dr. Mohler’s personal library … In one corner was a pile of leather briefcases ‘to give to friends’ …

    When was the last time you saw a young reformer carrying a leather briefcase?! They don’t tote anything but iPhones! He must have been saving those for his old fuddy-duddy buds.

  85. Max: God puts it this way:
    “… I will judge each of you by what YOU have done … A son will not be punished for his father’s sins, and a father will not be punished for his son’s sins. The righteousness of the righteous person will be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked person will be his own …” (Ezekiel 18)

    Note that this came out of a time and place where Tribe, Clan, and Lineage came first, and the individual person was mostly subordinate to said kinship group. These words stand The Way Things Have Always Been on its head.

    Just like the surprise twist endings of The Prodigal Son and Romans 1 decline narrative would several centuries later.

  86. Max: When was the last time you saw a young reformer carrying a leather briefcase?!They don’t tote anything but iPhones!He must have been saving those for his old fuddy-duddy buds.

    Note, LEATHER briefcases.
    Pricy, like the sterling silver pens.

    Like the faux-crystal chandelier over the toilet of a McMansion’s half-bath,
    “Yes, I’m RICH. How ever could you guess?”

  87. Max: The New Calvinists are light-years away from the character of the Puritans!

    Not when it comes to their Dark Sides.

  88. Max: Gilbert was obviously awestruck to be in the presence of King Mohler. At one point, he responded to a question “Oh, Dr. Mohler, what a sweet question!” That flattery paid off for Mr. Gilbert – he is now prominent within The Gospel Coalition and pastor of Mohler’s church in Louisville. The New Calvinist elite are a mutual admiration society.

    Yeah, several weeks ago 9Mark Dever featured a snapshot he’d kept of Gilbert (Greg is a former intern of his):

    Dever: “Glam @greggilbert always one of my favorites!”

    https://twitter.com/MarkDever/status/1156387037982941184

  89. Jerome: Joshua Harris just posted photo of pricey sterling silver pen

    Yeesh. I just gave Joshua Harris two more minutes’ worth of my eyesight. Think I’ll look out the window now and say a couple of “Hail Mary”s.

  90. Friend,

    Ha! This site convinced me to follow him on insta but he does a lot of stories and i dont care about those. Apparently he found a pen somebody handed out at conferences? IDK It went away too soon for me to read.

  91. Jerome: Yeah, several weeks ago 9Mark Dever featured a snapshot he’d kept of Gilbert (Greg is a former intern of his):

    Dever: “Glam @greggilbert always one of my favorites!”

    These guys creep me out. Mohler’s wife used to refer to Mahaney, Dever, and Duncan as “Al’s little playgroup.” My mind goes into alternative mode when I hear stuff like that, if you get my gist.

  92. “On his radio program on Friday, Peterson [talk show host and says he is a minister] doubled down on this assertion, claiming that depression and similar mental health issues are caused by sin and that “true” Christians don’t sin, which means that those who do suffer from such issues are actually children of Satan.”

    Source:
    https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/jesse-lee-peterson-if-you-are-depressed-satan-is-your-daddy/

    -I’ve been seeing a lot of attitudes like that being expressed by Christians online ever since news broke of Jarrid Wilson committing suicide.

  93. Max:My mind goes into alternative mode when I hear stuff like that

    Mine too, Max. If this man were in an “open and affirming” church, I would probably assume he wasn’t heterosexual.

    We had some glam guys in our high school youth group. They came out a few years later. I imagine the youth ministers’ preaching about traditional marriage caused them inner turmoil, without actually changing them. But the preaching was fear based, so we probably all had enormous cognitive dissonance.

  94. Friend: Mine too, Max. If this man were in an “open and affirming” church, I would probably assume he wasn’t heterosexual.

    We had some glam guys in our high school youth group. They came out a few years later. I imagine the youth ministers’ preaching about traditional marriage caused them inner turmoil, without actually changing them. But the preaching was fear based, so we probably all had enormous cognitive dissonance.

    Mathew 10:28 “ Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body, they cannot touch your your soul.
    Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell. New living translation

    This gives me, pick your choice,fear base teaching, cognitive dissonance, whatever you want to call it, I’m in..

  95. …obliviously these are not normal times. Apparently, thieves and wolves are found entrenched and embedded everywhere in the ‘house’ of God. Jesus said this would happen. Yet Jesus also said : “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself.” —Therefore, pray the Lord of harvest, that He raise up genuine laborers for His fields… Da gate o’ hell shall not prevail…ATB Sòpy

  96. Benn: This gives me, pick your choice,fear base teaching, cognitive dissonance

    To be clear, we had a really toxic youth group, about as theologically sound as a haunted house. I think the result was sin leveling, not clarity.

  97. I think it’s obvious from reading this that not only has Dustin Boles been a danger to women, & is clearly a serial rapist, he continues to be a danger.

    This is based on things like: his continued framing of women in violently sexual ways (‘angry sex’) etc; his constant talking about these things, & even admitting he is wistful for those times (what repentant person who gets the seriousness of his crimes does that?); his using speaking about these things around other men to play the ‘alpha dog’ in several ways – sexually in terms of I prove my strength by forcing women into sex, & just for the Christian audience, I am the Alpha Sinner, worst of sinners, woe is me (but really aren’t I amazing?) & so on.

    What is extra concerning are his attempts to groom his former friend into sex offending
    ‘let’s get our wives drunk & see what happens’. He wants to chemically disable these women by altering their consciousness/disabling them physically via alcohol, & for the 2 men to do what, exactly? He’s already shown his proclivities for rape.

    I have absolutely no doubt that had DeWayne been willing , then Dustin would have pushed to extend this, & you’d probably have a pair of serial rapists at work in the church. I’m seriously concerned for how he may have assaulted his wife during their marriage, & I would shudder to see his internet history, although I bet I could tell you what’s in it.

    In short, the man is still an active predator, who will offend when given the opportunity.

  98. Friend: My amateur understanding is that predators avoid unpleasant consequences. They might never develop a conscience, but they will learn to anticipate punishment. Sometimes that means they behave acceptably, and sometimes they protect themselves in elaborate ways.

    This is so true, but it is so not understood by many people. Usually, unless and until you run up against a clever, narcissistic predator, you simply do not know such a creature exists. I know I did not. This is particularly true of naive, trusting christians, who have been taught to always give people the benefit of the doubt, and forgive any and all sin as long as the appropriate words are mouthed.

    I believe the general public need an education on narcissists and predators. Especially the church-going general public.

  99. Headless Unicorn Guy: Prayer is Christianese for Piously doing nothing and feeling Righteous about it.

    Might I edit this slightly? Might I add, ‘all too often’? Prayer is powerful; it is intended to equip us to go out and fight these battles. But too many stop at the prayer. Which is exactly what the enemy desires. He doesn’t mind if people pray, as long as they view it as merely poetic exercise.