Jade’s Story: I Was Raped by Dustin Boles and His Wife and Have Been Wearing a Scarlet Letter Since. #metoo #churchtoo #acts29too

I promised to post Part 2 of my previous post on Pete Wilson today.  However, I believe it is important to return to the Dustin Boles’ saga and tell Jade’s story.  I will post Part 2 of Wilson’s story on Wednesday. On Friday, I’m going to point at Acts 29 and explain how it relates to Jade’s story and Rachel Kaminky’s encounter. The time frame of these events occurred while Matt Chandler has functioned as the head of Acts 29.
I will present evidence in print as well as a testimony from another person who was in a position to know and observe actions over a long period of time. I’m pretty darn mad about what I’ve learned. I am now of the opinion that survivors and current victims will not be safe in churches which affiliate with Acts 29 until they change their response patterns in dealing with reported abuse.
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Me,Too before Me, Too Became a Hashtag.

Back in 2016, Rachel Kaminky started her blog which she called Me Too. According to several sources, #MeToo came into widespread usage in 2017 during the Harvey Weinstein allegations. However, Tarana Burk began to use *Me Too*  in 2006 without the hashtag.

Rachel has two posts on her blog: Her story from 2016 which she titled Me Too and Jade’s story which on 9/6/19 which was title Me Too, Too.

The timing couldn’t have been better since on 9/2 I wrote about Dustin Boles inHe’s Baaaack! Dustin Boles Starts Vintage Church, Ocean Springs, MS. After a History of Bizarre Behavior at Mosaic Church.

It has taken Jade a few years to get the courage to tell her story in public. It is a difficult story and I’m so glad that she found the strength to share how she was abused at the hands of Dustin Boles and his wife. I know to use the term *alleged abuse* for any lawyers who are reading but I want to say in the most strongest of terms, that I truly believe her story and am in awe of her tenacity. Jade and Rachel, you are two amazing women.

To Jade: The only ones who should be wearing a scarlet letter are the abusers and those in the church and Acts 29 who did  NOTHING.

To Vintage Church attendees. Ocean Springs, MS: Think about it.

{Trigger Warning;  Graphic Details Warning}

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 Me Too, Too.

“You brought me back to life. You healed me.”

These are the words spoken to me by my abuser. These are the words that seeped into my mind and made me think I consented to the continual abuse he forced upon me. Seasoned abusers don’t come out of the dark shadows in the night to assault their victims. Predators don’t willingly share their intentions with their victims. My abuser lived as a pillar of the community. My abuser was my Pastor, friend, best friend to my husband. And my worst nightmare.

According to the website, Abuse and Relationships:

“For most of the relationship, the survivor may be eager to experience the sense of specialness and push to see the primary aggressor. This may contribute to later guilt and shame when abuse is occurring. Because of the staged and confusing progression, the survivor may not at the end understand that the primary aggressor has been the whole instigator. The survivor might erroneously believe that there has been a mutual progression. This is largely responsible for the tragic, well-known reluctance of the survivors to report abuse.”

It was March 2016 in Panama City, we vacationed with my abuser and his wife, like we’ve done many times before through our decade long friendship. I don’t recall seeing red flags or signs of strange behavior to make me believe this couple was anything but great friends to us. Until it was our second day at the beach in March 2016…

We were enjoying the sun at the beach and suddenly, he started rubbing my leg while his wife and our children sat nearby. In fact, while he was doing it, he was also speaking to an elderly couple. Distraction. His wife asked what he was doing when she saw his hand on my leg. He told her he was brushing the sand off. I wanted to believe him but in my gut I knew… Something wasn’t right. This is what started the beginning of my abuse after years of manipulation and grooming.

The touching started with my leg on the beach and ended in something that I never wanted. My Pastor and his wife initiating inappropriate relations with me. Together. Something to this day I still don’t fully understand and will continue years of healing and therapy for.

— deep breath —

We were standing in the condo, I kissed my son and husband goodbye as they headed to the beach so I could nap. My Pastor, at the beach, heard that I was in the condo alone and took advantage of this opportunity. That’s when he stormed into my bedroom, flipped on the light, pulled back my covers, pulled my bathing suit to the side and began fondling me. I was half asleep and before I knew it, it was too late. The whole time, I had an overwhelming sick and nauseating feeling to my stomach. “I need to act like I like it so he will go away. I need this to go away. My husband and son might walk in. I want this to be over. Just act like you like it so it can be over.” It ended when he attempted to have sex with me but was unable to.

I stayed quiet. If I told my husband, what would my husband do? He would kill him. I thought this was an isolated incident. I thought it was a one time mistake. He made sure I knew, “If you tell anyone, we’re toast.” He made it seem as if it was a mutual decision and because of the years of grooming, I believed him. So, against all of my morals and everything I thought I would do if to ever be in this situation. I stayed quiet.

I thought my silence would be protecting him. I didn’t think it would happen again. But he took my silence as permission to continue the abuse. It was late in the 3rd evening. my Pastor, his wife and I were playing a game,” Never Have I Ever. ” My husband and son were asleep in the next room. The questions were escalating to a high level of inappropriateness. I was asked the question, “Have you ever been with a woman?” Before I could answer, his wife engaged in relations with me under his guidance and direction. We both listened and did what he said. I did so as if I was mindless. Doing things he told me to do without question. He watched, he instructed us. And he pleasured himself. My Pastor and his wife raped me. When it was over, I laid numb. Barely able to breathe. His wife later emerged from their bedroom and whispered, ” You know if any of this gets out, we go down. And if we go down, so do you.” I was sworn to secrecy. I was groomed. Manipulated. I laid in silence deprived of any thought or feeling. Praying this night would leave my memory.

The next evening while sitting on the couch, his wife stated, “I think he wants to do it again.” I quickly left the room and went to bed.

This was the only time they ever had physical contact with me. He continuously tried to seek me out in secrecy for 3 months. He was relentless. He was determined to speak to me. Texting me through Snapchat. After I blocked him from my account, he then tried to pursue me through his friend’s accounts. Always making sure there was no trace of evidence. He learned my daily schedule. He learned at what times I was at work. Conveniently, our children attended the same daycare which happened to be across from my workplace. He learned my running routes. He was waiting for me on his bike while I ran my usual route one day. He demanded that I kiss him. “I just need a real quick kiss. You don’t know what it does for me.” He insisted that I kiss him. I obliged to get away.

I found myself at my breaking point. Keep in mind, my husband was his best friend and an employee at the time. I felt the need to protect him. Protect the church. But I couldn’t take him anymore. I told him I needed to cut off all communication. He sobbed. Begging. I didn’t give in. The morning after, he showed up in the parking lot where I worked out. He said, “I haven’t been able to sleep or eat all night. Is this weird to you that I’m here right now?” Looking back, I realize this was stalking. He learned my routine and would show up where he knew I would be. I didn’t understand it at the time. I didn’t understand that every word he said and every action was apart of his grooming process to ensure I kept my silence. He made sure I would keep quiet. And for 3 years, I did.

During this time, he would ask me a series of questions. He would ask about my sexual abuse history. I shared with him that I’ve been raped. I was vulnerable and felt safe because of the words he said to me. “I want to know everything about you.” “I want to know how I can pray for you.” “God bless you.” He would ask if his age bothered me. He seemed to love that I was much younger than him. He learned about my vulnerabilities. He was using my weaknesses to later use as exploitation to fulfill his needs. And I fell for all of it. I looked at him as my Pastor, a good man and a good counselor. Someone I trusted and confided in. I was completely brainwashed by this man.

My heart still breaks. 3 years. And my heart breaks. How do I wrap my head around the fact that my abuser was my husband’s best friend? My Pastor? A decade long friendship? My heart breaks for my son who witnessed his mother who’s been shattered by this man.

My Pastor and his wife sexually assaulted me. I was raped.

Until, finally,  other victims came forward. Accusing the same man, Pastor, of sexual assault. I thought I was a willing participant. This is what sexual assault looks like. This is what predators do to their victims. Finding out that he was grooming and assaulting other women 3 years ago was devastating and a relief at the same time. He WASN’T in love with me. I no longer had to carry that burden of fixing him. I’ve held this in for 3 years. I’ve gone over this countless times in my head. I didn’t have the courage to write this 3 years ago. I was afraid of what he might do. I was afraid of what people might think. I was afraid. 3 years ago, he still had a hold on me. Today, he doesn’t.

“You brought me back to life. You healed me.” Words from my abuser to me. Words that changed my life. He changed the way I viewed myself as a mother and wife. He changed the way I trust people. He changed the valued friendships I had in my life. He changed everything. Some of you will be angry. Some will be sympathetic. This is not written for either. It’s written so it doesn’t happen again. I feel it is my responsibility as a woman and Christ follower. We can’t let history repeat itself. How will we allow this man to speak the Word of God to his congregation? Has he apologized? Has he admitted to any wrongdoing? Has he admitted to the things he’s actually done? I ask you to ask yourself these questions before you show up on Sunday.

Think what  you want of me. I’ve been wearing the Scarlet Letter since 2016.

Comments

Jade’s Story: I Was Raped by Dustin Boles and His Wife and Have Been Wearing a Scarlet Letter Since. #metoo #churchtoo #acts29too — 144 Comments

  1. If true… this dude should be in jail. I believe the story, and I wonder how much of his wife’s participation was out of manipulation and abuse. Based on the account it is easy to see that this guy had done this before. Just so strange.

    The crazy thing with the internet and technology (but good in this case) is that if you have skeletons in the closet or you are living a double life…. you better confess it now and get some kind of help.

    The other thing…. and I am just thinking out loud: These actions just show how sick and reckless this guy had become. Now, admittedly, I struggle with sin and lust like a lot of men do. I wish I was perfect and totally shocked when men fail morally. But this is different… One would think that if you were to act out on your sinful impulses that it would be more secretive and far from your inner circle. To do it with someone from your church and involve your wife? That is what makes me think he had done it many times before. I think he got away with it enough times that he became more debased, God gave him up, he got sloppy, and we have this. He became detached from the reality of his condition. Just a thought.

  2. Brian…. I agree. I did not mean to say that the wife is not accountable. Honestly, there are no words to describe how twisted this is so my post is a very inadequate attempt to wonder what brings people to this.

  3. George: That is what makes me think he had done it many times before.

    I believe you are correct. In fact, on Friday, you will find out that others were informed about him and did nothing.

  4. Brian,

    I would agree. I had an interesting conversation with someone who knew them years ago. There appears to have been lots of this stuff going on for a significant period of time. I think you’ll be mad when you see I write about on Friday This involves Acts 29.

  5. There are simply no words. Do things like this really happen? How long, O God, how long? I am terribly sorry, Jade. Throw away that Scarlet letter.

  6. Ugh. Just when I catch myself thinking that things in ‘church world’ couldn’t get any worse, it does. I believe you Jade. How horrifying for you to experience this. YOU certainly do not need that Scarlet Letter.
    Dee, I’m sure it is difficult even just hearing about these evil, disturbing things. Thank you for listening to and believing victims.

  7. This is beyond horrible. My stomach is clenching.

    In my experience, manipulators prey on the self-doubting. It’s as though they have super-sensitive antennae that can pick up on our vulnerabilities. They know with whom they can get away with this stuff. And they know with whom they can’t. They zero right in on the sensitive people, the caring and empathetic people. They have no empathy themselves, but boy, they sure know how to exploit it in others. And they mess with our heads. Big time.

    Jade, I’ve known narcissistic manipulators, but I’ve never had to go through what you’ve gone through. Not even close. It’s horrific. Nonetheless, I think I can understand to some extent…and identify. We self-doubters always blame ourselves. We wrack our brains trying to figure it out. But how can one make sense of the senseless?

    That’s why sites like this one are so important. And so are trained, experienced, licensed counselors. None of that nouthetic nonsense.

  8. “if any of this gets out, we go down”

    And may they stay down this time. No more 3-year terms away from ministry to be “restored”, no more opportunities to deceive God’s people, no more abuse, no more victims. Just go away and wait for Judgement Day.

  9. I am a local to this “man” and have posted this article on Facebook – I hope it gets lots of shares.

  10. This reminds me of the time I first became acquainted with this kind of church leader abuse. It was about 35 years ago now. There was a pretty bass player, college age who went to a Catholic Mass. She was a friend of a friend of one of my close friends. One night a lay leader in her church invited her over for dinner with him and his wife. As I heard the story, they got her drunk and then the two of them seduced her. When she sobered up she was greatly confused, angry and troubled. She left the RCC and began being haunted by a shadowy figure at night. I was young and never heard of such a thing before. Now, the way this worldly “church” is, nothing surprises me anymore. I am just waiting for the first mega church pastor to be charged and convicted of murder. I do not doubt it has already happened somewhere with someone…

  11. In terms of using the word “allegedly”, these incidents were related contemporaneously to multiple third parties including one who works in litigation support who has a large file filled with notes. While Boles has not been convicted of a crime, in terms of a criminal investigations, sharing specific details with multiple independent sources shortly after the commission of the sex crime, is generally seen as adequate evidence to seek a grand jury indictment.

    If Mr Boles doesn’t like this post he should consider how much worse any discovery process will be. I can assure him that what will be shared with the courts will be far more condemning than the minimal details shared here today.

    Boles and his swinger wife have additional victims who I hope will also come forward. It’s impossible to overstate the amount of damage this kind of abuse does to flock members.

    Anyone currently acting as or considering becoming an Elder at Vintage Church in Ocean Springs, MS, should resign immediately.

    When Boles and/or his wife strike again, it will be revealed that leadership had pre-existing knowledge of both Boles’ perverse predilections and willingness to blackmail victims. You’re D&O insurance will deny coverage and the victims’ lawyers will come after Elders and execs personal assets to pay for those judgments.

    In light of what will be published on Friday, the punitive damages on any new cases, going forward, could be astronomical. Why would you endanger your own family’s fortune to support such a blatant wolf and scoundrel? Get out now!

  12. Any readers from DFW need to also keep their eyes on this case. Dustin Boles was a Youth Pastor at The Met, Randy Robison’s Church for years prior to planting Mosaic Church. No spoiler alerts for this Friday’s post, but there is more than enough reason to believe that students and other leaders/teachers were harassed and possibly assaulted as well.

    If there are any other victims out there, there is NO Statute of Limitations on sexual assault committed by clergy members who minister to their victims in the State of Texas. Any form of sexual contact constitutes second degree felony sexual assault.

    Please encourage any known victims to report any assaults immediately. You have a community of supporters here who will aid you through this process.

    Silence only ensures more students and young adults will be harmed.

  13. Sounds like “church” is their happy hunting grounds. Playing the game, wearing the facade while pursuing their actual goals.

    I wonder just how many people have been keeping quiet for how long, out of shame?

    I wonder how many who knew of this predation and did nothing, are just as bad? Or are in church work because it is their own happy hunting ground of one type or another?

    “These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.”

  14. dee,

    Dee, thank you for this piece and for all you do.

    You might want to make a small correction in the paragraph that mentions Tarana Burke. Line 4 reads “to sue *Me Too*”. I think you mean “to use *Me Too*”.

  15. To Jade, and any other victims reading this:
    I am SO sorry. I admire your bravery in sharing your stories. Please know how much you are respected and supported by readers of this blog.

  16. dee,

    I don’t need to see your next post. The idea that some of those that knew did nothing, is horrid.

    My stepfather, my abuser, had a brother who beat his kids mercilessly with a belt (blows to everywhere except the buttox, the buttox being the acceptable place at the time). His whole family knew and did nothing. They only complained how his kids acted. I never comprehended the darkness of the whole thing until I was an adult.

    So, even though there might be a few exceptions, I have little tolerance for those that knew and did nothing.

  17. Marcus: I’m tired of American woman demanding all their rights and acting so tough, but then acting like a maiden in the middle ages.

    I mean…it sounds like he snuck in and took advantage of her while she was asleep which is pretty black and white. I’m tired of people telling women to act like they are a maiden in the middle ages and then being *shocked* when they freeze at this kind of aggression? Flight fight or freeze is pretty well recognized at this point.

    That all aside, this guy sounds creepy and should not be a pastor. This is the hot tub/stalking guy. What is WRONG with Acts 29?

  18. Marcus,

    I’m super glad you and your wife have never been in this situation. Be sure to get back to us when you have relevant experience to share. Meanwhile I’ll spend about ten seconds wondering why you think we should all expect to be sexually assaulted by clergy, so that the burden is always on the victim to fight them off.

    Does your church offer a training course on punching the grabby pastor in the nose? If so, please provide the training materials, so we can all benefit.

    /sarc

  19. Friend,

    Hi Friend. I do wonder sometimes where the line is between grooming, coercive control and standing up and saying no for adults. It’s complicated, and probably difficult to get a sense of from short accounts.

    But who knows how they would respond in these situations? I was just thinking, when I was younger I had a coworker kiss me out of the blue and then say ‘don’t tell my wife’ and I was so surprised I just didn’t do anything at all. I didn’t participate or anything but I just sat there shocked. And then everything went on as usual. IDK.

  20. Pingback: Linkathon! - Phoenix Preacher

  21. Jade and her husband were friends of Dustin Boles and his wife for ten years. He spent that whole time finding out if she was one to fight back immediately or was one that would be stunned into inaction.

  22. Marcus,

    “Even non-believers know right from wrong. For American Christian women to say they were groomed is just pathetic.”
    ++++++++++

    sounds like you don’t believe the grooming process exists.

    please get informed, and learn to access your imagination.

  23. Brian,

    I think the longer you’ve known someone the more likely you are to be shocked into inaction, at least momentarily. And the more likely you are to try to get away through ‘soft’ methods, like avoiding someone. It’s far more awkward than a stranger hitting on you/assaulting you.

    I will say this is more than grooming. There was an explicit threat of being exposed.

  24. Lea,

    IF you have been raised in certain kinds of cultures, and expect certain kinds of behavior from people-leaders in particular-you can freeze in your tracks when something out of the ordinary happens. It’s someone you trust, who you have spent time with, who you may have been vulnerable with (in a clergy/parishioner kind of way) acting unbelievably strange. Years ago I was at a Christian educators conference and I ran into a pastor I hadn’t seen in a while. He didn’t just give me a brotherly hug; he started feeling me up. I was devastatingly embarrassed, and I didn’t say anything the first time. I thought it was a fluke. He kept pursuing me, I was totally confused, and someone finally said I should speak up and put him in his place. I wasn’t brave enough to do it myself-he was a pastor, and young women didn’t do that. If he hadn’t been so public, I probably would have left the conference very ashamed. (He did leave me alone after I yelled at him)and threatened to tell his wife, with several people hearing me). I did yell, but I was very upset that I had to do that. Now, so many years later, I probably would have kicked him, too, but I was young and over-impressed with “men of God.” That was the way I had been raised.

  25. Marcus,

    I think you are completely wrong. This “pastor”
    groomed her for years. There is a state of cognitive dissonance where something awful happens and your brain just can’t wrap its mind around it. This was her spiritual leader, someone she looked up to and respected.
    Also, it can’t be understated that the pastor knew exactly what he was doing. I can’t believe his was his first time. Jade’s husband worked with him and was his best friend. Of course she had conflicting emotions which the pastor used to his own evil ends. His wife is also culpable.
    Jade, I believe you completely.

  26. Marcus,

    You seem to be ill educated about those who are abused. It’s really strange to me that secular society gets it far better than those in churches.

    Many people are vulnerable. Others are placed into a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation-jobs on the line and family financial issues to consider.

    Have you ever taken any courses on counseling? How much do you understand about vulnerability? So your wife would punch him in the face? How do you know that? What if she was going through a personal crisis and didn’t have the strength to do so? Everyone is so strong until they are not.

    Marcus, you have violated a prime directive here. You have dissed the victims and have done so with no care and compassion, or to be perfectly frank, knowledge. I am putting you in time out which means I will read each and every one of your comments and decide if I will approve them. Probably not…

    Sadly, you remind of the Acts 29 guys who I will feature on Friday. My guess is that you are the sort of person who would say “she deserved it and she probably encouraged it because my wife wouldn’t do it.” Such lack of introspection is a bit breathtaking given the fact that many people in the church are waking up to the difficult issues surrounding abuse. You are running a bit behind.

    I am removing your comment. Let’s see if you can try again with some sensitivity since I get the feeling that you are involved in a church and I hope to teach you something that will help others.

    \Burt then again, you may be one of q few creeps who have nothing to do but try to get their comments approved here.

  27. I want to apologize for allowing the approval of Marcus’ comment. He seems to exhibit predatory blaming of victims. His “proof”m is his wife wouldn’t allow it…or so he thinks. Marcus shows a lack of empathy. My guess is that he some sort of pastor and is used to the good old boys behavior. he doesn’t understand the centuries of men who blamed women when they were raped because they dressed slutty. he reminds me of the boss who hits on the women because *f they were strong they would tell him so they wanted it.*

    Whenever I see someone like Marcus making comments, I have a feeling that there is a back story. I pray he is not a pastor in a church because he is the type who will do what it appears Acts 29 did.in this situation.

    Again, I apologize. I had to take my mom to the doctor’s and it took awhile.

  28. elastigirl,

    Marcus appears to have overlooked Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc,. I suspect there is a back story here for ol’ Marcus. I only wish I knew what church he attends. I bet he may be a pastor.

    Marcus is creepy.

  29. dee:
    I want to apologize for allowing the approval of Marcus’ comment. He seems to exhibit predatory blaming of victims. His “proof”m is his wife wouldn’t allow it…or so he thinks. Marcus shows a lack of empathy. My guess is that he some sort of pastor and is used to the good old boys behavior. he doesn’t understand the centuries of men who blamed women when they were raped because they dressed slutty. he reminds me of the boss who hits on the women because *f they were strong they would tell him so they wanted it.*

    Whenever I see someone like Marcus making comments, I have a feeling that there is a back story. I pray he is not a pastor in a church because he is the type who will do what it appears Acts 29 did.in this situation.

    Again, I apologize. I had to take my mom to the doctor’s and it took awhile.

    You sound like you have a full plate, Dee. ((()))

  30. Linn: I did yell, but I was very upset that I had to do that.

    I think a lot of men don’t really understand how much women are socialized *not* to yell, talk back, make a scene, etc… For many people it really takes active effort to do so.

    I can set up cold, clear boundaries, and ghost or ignore someone’s bad behavior and if pressed I will be very direct but I would 100% not punch anybody without being in a literal fight for my life probably. I might raise my voice, but it takes a lot to get me there.

    dee, I am so leery of men who try to use their spouse or SO’s behavior (real or theoretical) to make points. It happens a lot. It always feels off to me, even when I think someone may have good intentions.

  31. I have heard of couples being involved in heinous sexual assaults and worse, so this is no surprise to me. I would strongly suggest to victims of Dustin Boles and his wife should lawyer up and go to the police. This couple sounds for all the world like alleged team serial predators and need to be stopped cold before they assault again.

  32. Marcus is commenting from Japan. My guess he is one of a group of men out there who are trying to downplay clerical sexual abuse.

  33. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: This couple sounds for all the world like alleged team serial predators and need to be stopped cold before they assault again.

    I agree, turn Olivia Benson (SVU) loose on em’…

  34. Just wondering if anyone has the whole lowdown on the history of Boles? Where he grew up, went to school, who he has been associated with throughout his adult life. I know a few pieces of info have been provided, but it would be great to have all of the details. I would be very interested in pursuing his connections.

  35. Acts 29 is a cult. It was created by wicked men for wicked men. It was not created by God. The men who created Acts 29 hate women and girls with a bloody passion. They have much sympathy for wife beaters, pedophiles, and rapist.

  36. Guest,
    Preach it, Guest!
    I too believe they hate females unless they want sex or someone to do tasks they think are beneath them.

  37. I am very worried about any children these sexually sadistic perverts may have access to. That includes their children. They are full-blown sexually abusive sickos that deserve to go to prison.

  38. Friend: Does your church offer a training course on punching the grabby pastor in the nose

    Just for the record, I’d be kicking much lower than the nose if a pastor grabbed at me.

  39. My gut says that part of Jade’s fear for her husband was his ability to be able to continue in the ministry.

    If she had reported the rape, her husband would have not only lost his position working under boles. He would not have only been blackballed by the entire Acts 29 network but also by 9 Marks and the SBC. They seem to stick together.

  40. I hesitate to say this because I don’t even want to appear to detract from Boles’ victims, whom I feel terrible for, but- even if all of the Boles’ victims were mature, fully cognizant, aware, willing participants (I’m speaking rhetorically because I do not believe any of this for one second), THE BOLES WOULD STILL BE DISGUSTING PERVERTS WHO HAVE NO PLACE IN CHRISTIAN MINISTRY. And if this Marcus’ wife landed a well-deserved punch on one of them, it would not change that fact one iota, either. It’s irrelevant. So where is Acts 29 with all their lists of rules, MIA as usual when there’s an actual problem.

  41. TS00: Just wondering if anyone has the whole lowdown on the history of Boles?

    Good question. How would you feel if you found out this pair had been your kids’ youth leaders?

  42. Jade,

    I’m so sorry this happened to you. This couple are predatory perverts who have no business in ministry anywhere. The only place they should be is in prison for sexual assault and blackmail.

  43. TS00,

    There are some people out there who are doing this. However, any and all folks with info let me know and I will get it to the right people.

  44. Tina,

    Someone on Twitter would like to DM you. She has asked me to share her twitter handle and email with you. if you are conformable with this, let me know. I met this person at a conference and she seems quite nice.

  45. SiteSeer: if this Marcus’ wife landed a well-deserved punch on one of them, it would not change that fact one iota

    Excellent point. Sometimes people fight off a robber, sometimes they yell but the robber gets away, sometimes the victim only notices later that the wallet is gone.

    In every case, the robber is the one in the wrong.

  46. Lea: What is WRONG with Acts 29?

    Well, for starters, it was founded by a potty-mouth preacher from Seattle – Mark Driscoll – who rebelled against mainline Christianity to create a macho-man atmosphere for young reformers while putting the wimmenfolk in bondage. After he fell from grace, along with Acts 29 VP Darrin Patrick (moral failure), Matt Chandler became President (and we’ve learned a lot about him in recent months). The organization has a history of dudebro preachers gone bad. They stretch their freedom in grace to justify bad-boy behavior. If left to itself, the Acts 29 strain of New Calvinism will lead to antinomianism – that’s clearly where it took Dustin Boles.

  47. SiteSeer: So where is Acts 29 with all their lists of rules, MIA as usual when there’s an actual problem.

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for Acts 29 to address this. Everything is filtered through Matt Chandler, Acts 29 President … and we know that he’s turned a deaf ear to the cries of sexual abuse victims in his own church.

  48. Max: Well, for starters, it was founded by a potty-mouth preacher from Seattle – Mark Driscoll – who rebelled against mainline Christianity to create a macho-man atmosphere for young reformers while putting the wimmenfolk in bondage.

    A potty-mouth preacher from Seattle who was way too interested in the erotic aspects of both ends of the alimentary canal and gave us all TMI about at his kink.

  49. Max: Don’t hold your breath waiting for Acts 29 to address this.Everything is filtered through Matt Chandler, Acts 29 President … and we know that he’s turned a deaf ear to the cries of sexual abuse victims in his own church.

    His is a High and Lonely Destiny, Digory.

  50. Do you reckon the church providing space for Boles’ new plant (launching next Sunday, Sept. 15) would be concerned about having this bad-boy on the premises? (Wesley United Methodist Church, Ocean Springs MS)

    From the Vintage Church website: ” Come as you are. Seriously…Come as you are!” Whew! Beware of some preachers who come as they are!
    https://www.vintagegc.net/

  51. Max,

    I’m not questioning your comment. I’m curious where he has made the remarks concerning antinomianism.

  52. Brian: I’m curious where he has made the remarks concerning antinomianism.

    I didn’t say that someone made remarks concerning antinomianism. I meant to imply that it is my observation that certain questionable ministers and ministries within New Calvinism, if not corrected, could lead to antinomian belief that grace frees a Christian from moral law. When a “pastor” commits god-awful sin and keeps coming back to preach under the cover of grace, it is cheap grace which is not Grace at all.

  53. Amy Moore: Anyone currently acting as or considering becoming an Elder at Vintage Church in Ocean Springs, MS, should resign immediately.

    Yep, it’s time for church leaders there to be wise before they become otherwise.

  54. Max,

    It sounds like he’s going to be reaching out to the drug addicts and alcoholics, i.e. the recovery services on Wednesday nights. I didn’t find any mentions of AA or NA though. If you were homeless and an addict, you might otherwise feel uncomfortable entering a church dressed in your street clothes.

    If it wasn’t for Dustin Boles, I’d say a highly commendable goal. Is it a cover? Is this the grooming of the community? Better victim pool?

  55. dee: Marcus is commenting from Japan. My guess he is one of a group of men out there who are trying to downplay clerical sexual abuse.

    That’s hugely interesting. Japan’s homegrown population of Christians is around one (1) percent or about 1.3 million people. I cannot see the vast majority of Japanese Christians caring much about Dustin Boles and his problems here in the USA. So who is traveling in Japan right now that might take an interest in Dustin Boles, Acts 29 and the rest? Inquiring minds etc….

  56. dee: Marcus is commenting from Japan.

    Might not be a person in Japan at all. “Marcus” might be posting on a virtual private network or otherwise concealing his/her physical location.

  57. Brian,

    I’d say the Celebrate Recovery thing might at least partly be just knowing the audience/area. There is a popular Christian-based drug recovery program nearby that draws people from all over. Once they graduate, the locals (and those who become locals) will presumably be looking to attend church somewhere that seems supportive.

  58. Brian: My gut says that part of Jade’s fear for her husband was his ability to be able to continue in the ministry.

    This is an insightful comment. People need to be aware that many factors come into play in abuse situations. The very existence of these factors were taken advantage of in the grooming and abuse of Jade.

    It is important that we allow victims to have confusion, fear and mixed emotions when abuse happens. It is too easy to say, ‘Why didn’t she do this?’ or ‘Why did she let it go on so long?’ without knowing all of the factors that were in play.

    We must also be aware that part of the grooming involves, in this case, a decade of friendly, non-threatening relationships. It is understandable for Jade to have been confused and at a loss as to what to do. This was a person she both trusted and loved. These things are used by clever abusers to both manipulate the person into abusive situations as well as to keep them quiet.

  59. Max: The organization has a history of dudebro preachers gone bad.

    What if it’s worse? What if these people are wicked and abusive from the start? What if all this abuse is not random, but actually part of the package of seeing what they can get a way with and how they can control people? A lot of ‘what if’s’, but worth pondering.

  60. Max: Brian: I’m curious where he has made the remarks concerning antinomianism.

    My Calvie-pastor was very defensive about antinomianism charges, but it was what he taught, whether he would admit it or not. I recall becoming very confused as I was led to feel guilty about feeling guilty for my sin. If that makes sense.

  61. I’m so sorry, Jade.

    i understand freezing, and somehow believing you’re not allowed a voice. that you are somehow inexplicably obligated to endure it.

    (this is a legacy of previous abuse. it is also the legacy of blasted evangelical hierarchy, authoritarianism & gender roles — they have a huge subliminal role to play in this, despite complementarian’s vehement protestations to the contrary. “how could biblical subjugation and silencing be destroying?”, they wonder. “it’s biblical!”)

  62. Brian: If it wasn’t for Dustin Boles, I’d say a highly commendable goal. Is it a cover? Is this the grooming of the community? Better victim pool?

    You just grabbed my attention with this comment. I am going to be praying very seriously about this, Because recovering addicts are people with serious needs. I do not want to see a single one of them fall prey to this man’s wicked propensities.

  63. Fisher: Marcus is commenting from Japan?

    This is far from certain. “Marcus” could well be disguising his/her physical location by posting through a virtual private network (VPN) or other means. Or he/she might have posted during an airport layover. I did not see particular hallmarks of Japanese culture in the now-deleted comment. The style of language was American, although fortunately the way of thinking is not in favor in any country with a polite society.

  64. I decided to remove two posts since a food fight ensued on Japan and abuse. The reason I mentioned that Marcus was commenting from Japan was because I thought he might be hiding his location and I wrote him off to being a creepster and banned him. He will most likely return under different names, trying to get a comment on this blog.There are a couple of people out there who having nothing better to do with their time than to try to get a comment, insulting folks, especially me, on this blog. There are a number of people out there who exhibit an overwhelming anger when certain pedophiles, like tom Chantry, are tried and convicted. Since they can’t go after the judicial system, they go after those of use who are trying to expose the problem.

    Now, as for Japan, sexual abuse knows no racial or ethnic boundaries. There are abusers in every corner of this earth. It is my hope that women and men in Japan and other countries continue to stand up against this scourge. I stand with them.

    Back to regularly schedule discussing.

  65. Amy Moore,

    Hi Amy – Agreed! I went there, too. Just to clarify for others: Randy is not the pastor of any church, nor is he part of this saga. He’s just a member of Dustin’s former church.

  66. Catholic Gate-Crasher,

    I never thought of it that way. I had no idea they prey on those with a strong sense of empathy. I’m a victim of Dustin who came forward 3 years ago. And I consider myself an empath. When he did this, I put myself in his shoes and told myself to never repeat what happened. The weight he must feel on his shoulders. Disappointing thousands of church goers. I put that on MYSELF. And almost didn’t speak out. Now seeing I was selected bc of those reasons. Ugh. Makes me sick to my stomach

  67. Louise: Celebrate Recovery

    Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I see facebook notices for this all the time and they are weirdly focused on telling everybody they can benefit beyond addiction? (as opposed to something like AA which has more focus) I dont know what that’s about.

  68. Rachel: “I had no idea they prey on those with a strong sense of empathy.”

    This is something I have also read about narcissistic abuse and it kind of makes sense. Also that people use your best traits against you, things like caring and loyalty and trust. I also was reading an interesting thread on twitter yesterday about how it’s pretty useless to try to figure out the whys of someone abusing you and for a lot of people that is really hard to accept. They did it because they could, because they wanted to.

    I’m sorry for what happened to you.

  69. Fisher: recovering addicts are people with serious needs. I do not want to see a single one of them fall prey to this man’s wicked propensities

    Predators seek vulnerable prey.

  70. Friend: Meanwhile in California, Imperial Valley Ministries has been accused of luring homeless people into shelters, holding them against their will, confiscating their IDs, robbing them of every penny, and forcing them to beg on the streets (only to rob them of that money too)

    Meanwhile in Heaven, the angelic host are preparing more room for those church leaders in the goat line.

  71. It should not be so easy in America for a character like Dustin Boles to hang out a church shingle – there is no accountability structure in place, besides like-minded, hand-picked, yes-men elders. Affiliation with Acts 29 certainly didn’t provide any oversight to detect and correct his misbehaving.

  72. dee,

    Sorry about that Dee for having made a distracting comment. I definitely do NOT want to detract from supporting Jade and others who are speaking up at this time.

  73. Friend: Meanwhile in California, Imperial Valley Ministries has been accused of luring homeless people into shelters, holding them against their will, confiscating their IDs, robbing them of every penny, and forcing them to beg on the streets (only to rob them of that money too):

    That just broke on morning drive-time, with some commentary about how this is a shtick of CULTs.

    FYI, Imperial Valley is the stretch of California around the Salton Sea, between I-10 and I-8 N-S and between the coastal mountains and Colorado River E-W. It’s some of the harshest low desert in North America. I-8 running alongside the Mexican border runs through its heart; from that Desert Tower landmark through El Centro (the only town of any size) to Yuma. (Then the saguaros replace the yuccas and you’re into the Arizona-Sonora Desert — Casa Grande, Tucson, Tombstone…)

  74. Lea: Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I see facebook notices for this all the time and they are weirdly focused on telling everybody they can benefit beyond addiction? (as opposed to something like AA which has more focus) I dont know what that’s about.

    Probably like “Celebration of Life” instead of a Funeral. “HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!”
    (And the Christianese version, “Homegoing Celebration” — “HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!”)

  75. Max: Meanwhile in Heaven, the angelic host are preparing more room for those church leaders in the goat line.

    I’ve been thinking about this, and hope the angels are also preparing to embrace the victims. You know the NT better than I, but as I recall, the beggar Lazarus merely suffered and harmed no one. He was not famous for correct beliefs or even serving others. In fact, he contributed nothing. Yet the angels carried Lazarus off to be with Abraham (Luke 16:22).

  76. HUG:

    I mean more like ‘you too can recover from [insert random thing here]. They billed it as a ‘christ centered program’ to help people ‘overcome their hurts, hang-ups and habits’. That seems to cover just about everything and everybody.

    I went to the page to look at it btw and they apparently do have sponsors. And 1 year chips. So there is definitely some ‘borrowing’ from AA. Also they were trying to get everybody to wear tshirts the other day and take pictures with your testimony written on it in a sharpie? Weird.

  77. Headless Unicorn Guy: It’s some of the harshest low desert in North America.

    Sounds like a perfect place to trap desperate people. Maybe not perfect for finding folks who are willing to give a little money to the desperate, though.

  78. Friend: embrace the victims

    “The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.” (Psalm 34:18)

  79. My husband was nearly a victim of Dustin and his wife Natalie. She approached him while at Mosaic church about her and Dustin wanting to come to our house for dinner. My husband makes sushi and she told him she was ready to come over for it again. Then after he tells her we can plan it, she starts talking to him about “tacos”. She said, “What about tacos? have you ever had tacos?” We looked at each other puzzled, wondering why is she bringing up tacos when we’re talking about sushi. She talked about it for nearly 5 minutes.
    We planned the day and invited other people as well, thank God. Once they got here, she went into the kitchen and got really close to my husband to talk. I was standing not far from them. Again, she started talking to him about “tacos” and “wouldn’t you want to have another dinner where you eat ‘tacos’?” Natalie has always seemed a little loopy, as if she’s on medication or something, so I just chalked it up to that.
    After everyone left, my husband asks me if I saw the way Dustin was looking at him.Looks of approval, nodding his head with permission. I didn’t notice. Here I was thinking it’s a simple gathering for dinner. Then it hit me, the metaphor… the sexual connotation of “taco”… and I told my husband. He had grown up in another country and didn’t get the reference and it didn’t dawn on me that’s what she meant until my husband explained the looks Dustin was giving him. We never shared that story because of how he was revered in the church and the fact that we only had this simple experience. That was the last time they had dinner at our house.
    One thing that was blatant… Dustin told me back in Jan. 2014, in reference to Gulfport Mosaic, “Don’t tell anyone we have the money for renovations, we still want people to give money for that.” That was the last day I attended Dustin’s Mosaic.

  80. linda: IF adult women want to be seen as fully adult they have to stop calling early stage abuse “grooming” and deal with the perp at that stage. Might mean your job, or your husband’s job, or changing churches, or moving to a new town, or talking to the perp’s employer, or a host of unpleasant adult duties.

    You are questioning the adulthood of women, while suggesting that women should quit their jobs and leave town if a criminal commits a crime against them. Have you personally ever done this? How would one go about “talking to the perp’s employer,” for example?

    Why should the victim/survivor give up hearth, home, congregation, and livelihood? Shouldn’t the perpetrator be the one who loses out?

    You further write, “And I have to freely admit it is possible she was having a sordid affair and was afraid it would come to light now, and is covering her butt by alleging all this stuff.” No, you do not have to freely admit that.

    Welcome to the ranks of people who make it harder for victims to report crimes—even as you berate those who do not.

  81. linda,

    I posted a response to your baseless remarks, but it went into moderation. I sincerely hope you will check later and read it with care.

  82. linda,

    Linda,
    I to have had a very difficult time with this one. I was a victim as a child at the hands of a relative, then again by a deacon, and a near date rape in college. I understand and want to be supportive. I have worked with many victims. Three of whom who admitted a love affair gone wrong and dropped the complaints. Two were teen girls and protecting their Christian reputatations. One of the girl’s mom’s actually had texts that proved her daughterr was the sexual aggressor and came forward.
    I have been fearful to voice these thoughts. I have been a long time reader here and fear the barrage of negative comments that will come. As a young child, I froze. As an older child, I ran and locked myself in a bathroom. As a college student, I pleaded for him not to do this and when he shifted his weight slightly, I was able to push and get away. With all three, I was very careful when I had to be around them again. I do not mean any disrespect when I say I do not understand how she could not at least make some form of protest at being instructed in a threesome that involves bodily participation.
    My brother and other male relatives were groomed and molested by a youth pastor from as early as three years old until they got to around 15 and could finally say no. But they did finally say no. I’ve heard terrible stories of trrrible abuse and this recent story has me troubled and perplexed.

  83. My phone is freezing g and formatting my comments in a disjointed manner. Sorry if it isn’t making sense. I do want to add to my previous comment that I do believe Boles and his wife are despicable human beings.

  84. Lisa: I do not mean any disrespect when I say I do not understand how she could not at least make some form of protest at being instructed in a threesome that involves bodily participation.

    These questions often come up about this type of allegation, but not others. If someone loses her life in an attack, people tend not to ask why she did not run away. It concerns me when the burden is placed on the victim to explain herself and dispel public doubts.

  85. Lisa,

    My guess would be that he somehow knew she was raped once before before he tested her and then attacking her that weekend. I’m not a female, so I can only guess he knew it would not only effect response not once, but twice.

    Having to learn the predators playbook to survive the predators attacks has left a lot of unwanted knowledge in my skull.

    Both Mr. and Mrs. Boles were quick to move when assaulting her. The first rape could’ve effected her response in the second rape. She may still not fully understand it herself.

  86. Lisa,

    The only other suggestion I can make is when she wrote this out, she left out parts of it either intentionally or unintentionally. Things were left out that would clear up your questions.

    When I comment using an example of my childhood, my brain is like a fire hose, it comes out all at once. Then later I’ll remember more details of the past incident.

    Just my thoughts. 🙂

  87. Friend,

    It’s a sad situation. My next thoughts are “how do we prevent this”. As a society, we must consider the role of education in increasing recognition of grooming behaviors and how to remove ourselves from unwanted and dangerous situations.
    Tarana Burke is from my state and will be speaking in my town soon. I plan on going and hope to get ideas of what we can do to protect ourselves and help others protect themselves.

  88. I think it’s important to understand the type of fear and thoughts that race through a person’s mind when faced with something like this.
    1. This is her husband’s boss. “What if he lost his job? What would that do to our family? How will we pay our bills? How will we live?”
    2. This is her pastor. “What if people don’t believe me? What will happen to all of our relationships built within the church? People respect him, how can I compete with that?”
    3. Their only local family was their church family. A large part of her business was built on clientale from the church. How would this affect her job?
    4. He was one of her husband’s best friends.”My son and his son are ‘family’, what will happen with them? Who can I trust, if not him and her?”
    5. Then there’s the weight a victim/survivor has of wondering if somehow they’re responsible,if they’ve done something to entice them or make them think they wanted this. There’s the guilt that the predator has caused to make their prey feel as though they had a hand in the whole thing and are partners in all of it.

    The truth is that predators like this know exactly what they are doing and how to manipulate their targets. They are masters at playing people. Most people that know them would describe as charming and charismatic… like Ted Bundy.
    Until you’re a target of someone like this, it’s hard to fathom how anyone could fall for their chameleon act.

  89. Lisa,

    i appreciate your honesty, and your questions.

    the fact that he was a pastor has some significance.

    Evangelicalism casts a spell over people to honor and submit to the pastor… or else!

    To follow the chain of command, to do what the pastor says, to follow the pastor’s lead, to not question it. because questioning it is the slippery slope to being a troublemaker and kindling God’s fury; to disunity and loss of one’s community (a devastating thing).

    At the same time, evangelicalism is rife with the fear of displeasing God through grumbling, factions, being the cause of division. if someone were to go against what the pastor says or affirms they could easily be labeled satanic, an agent of satan… and they might even believe it. a terrifying prospect.

    until they’re out of church culture, that is. if they didn’t have access to oxygenated air in church culture, they’ll definitely get it once out. and be able to think clearly.

  90. Brian,

    Good point. I know all victims react different and with her church dynamics, friendship, etc…a myriad of emotions and thoughts could have been swirling or, then again, nothing at all.
    In social work documentation and law enforcement documentation, the brain does have to work in a logical, almost methodical, fashion. Now, years since my abuse took place, I can think like that and in my work I have had to provide both types of documentation.
    I recently had the joy of telling my childhood abuser that I am no longer the little girl who was easily manipulated. I am a grown woman and a fierce opponent; do not mess with me. It is my wish that Jade and all abused people find their voice and their fighting spirit sooner rather than later.

  91. elastigirl,

    True. I was in the evangelical, homeschooling movement. I Know it well. You’re right about the pastor part. Especially in the South. That part of my memory has faded so much that I probably didn’t give enough credence to the significance of that.
    Hopefully, Jade will find healing. And then I hope she finds her fighting spirit and nails this guy to the wall!

  92. Lisa: Hopefully, Jade will find healing. And then I hope she finds her fighting spirit and nails this guy to the wall!

    When women find their fighting spirit, their ferocity cannot be matched.
    It is not a ferocity of swagger and bravado, it is an inner strength fueled by resolve.
    Ask the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front (1941-1945) what it was like to fight Russian women.

  93. Lisa: My next thoughts are “how do we prevent this”.

    Well, for starters … I don’t know how widespread Jade’s story is at this point, but it would be prudent for the good folks of Ocean Springs, MS not to allow The Vintage Church to launch there until these allegations and other emerging concerns about Boles are addressed.

  94. linda,

    You have been commenting on this blog for a long time and you regularly *can’t believe* the victim. I am sooooo glad you are such a strong adult who would never, ever, ever find yourself in such a situation. Be careful about pointing fingers.

    I am going to disallow your comment and put you into permanent moderation. That means I will read each comment and decide if you have learned to better express yourself to those who have been hurt. You have pushed it too far this time. You show disdain for folks who have been deeply hurt.

  95. I’m actually new to TWW.

    I think the first thing to remember is that we are all sinners. Hopefully repentant and saved by Grace, but sinners.

    Very few can be placed on a pedestal without changing. They become “Rock Stars”.

    With most churches of many different denominations experiencing these same type of allegations as well as the progressive/liberal movement attacking, I am prayerful, but still distressed.

    IMHO I see the churches circling the wagons. From a Leadership perspective, they seem to be attempting damage control, conceding to agendas, protecting money streams, etc. I may be ignorant, but I haven’t seen a concerted effort from leadership to end this type if predatory/sexual sin.

    What is much more concerning, again IMHO, is there also does not seem to be push back from congregations or the body of Christ to demand the end of “One Leader Churches”. A board of Elders for instance who display a life lived according to the qualifications set forth in Scriptures. God never intended for one man to be in charge, save that Man, Jesus. Where are the changes on the local level to insure oversight?

    Also, God never intended for a local building to be a “church”. Christians around the world are all reborn into the Body. Having eyes and discernment from other localities could also help with these situations.

    Just my thoughts. And I mean absolutely no disrespect to any commentators or victims associated with the allegations.

    May the Shepherd who guards the flock guide and keep you and yours.

  96. linda: I can see the point that adult women (and men!) who after the fact (verbal, emotional, financial, physical, or sexual) do not report and/or escape the situation are in fact being complicit tacitly.

    I do not believe anything done after the fact (of abuse) is ‘complicit’. It requires strength and bravery and sometimes there are monetary and mental consequences for reporting. When someone has had something forced on them, they are not required to force more trauma on themselves out of the hope (because lets face it, most of the time perpetrators never see consequences!) that something happens from it. This is a very individual decision and I am not going to judge anyone’s choices except the perpetrator.

    I will admit to not being sure (as I said above) where the line is between grooming, coercive control, and consent. It’s muddled. But muddled consent maybe isn’t really true consent? This is a bigger conversation. [Add to that that there seems to have been some clear threats involved and this woman husband works for the man (if i understand correctly) which adds a bit of the sexual harassment/work dimension to it]. Many people don’t tell because they might not be believed, and what if her husband had no believed her? She would have lost everything and that is scary.

    The easy one is…this guy isn’t fit to be pastoring. Period.

    I

  97. I apologize for Linda’s thoughtless, self righteous comment. She has broken the prime directive and has shown disdain for victims. She has done this before and I’m frankly tiring of her holier and better than thou attitude. She knows better. I am putting her into permanent moderation and will have to decide whether or not to let each of her comment through.

  98. Lisa: My next thoughts are “how do we prevent this”.

    One thing to do is take opportunities to educate youngsters about consent and the law. Some years ago, kids in my vehicle started talking about a friend who was in love and getting married. She was 15. He was 40 and had just lost his position of authority because of this “love.”

    Well, I had not awakened that morning with a big plan to talk about statutory rape with a random batch of teens, but there it was. Shock and disbelief all around that the law does not always care about feelings. New vocabulary. We all got through it.

  99. Friend,

    Did you respond like Tony Soprano?

    Back to being serious, when the girls were discussing this, did they understand this was wrong?

  100. Mack: What is much more concerning, again IMHO, is there also does not seem to be push back from congregations or the body of Christ to demand the end of “One Leader Churches”. A board of Elders for instance who display a life lived according to the qualifications set forth in Scriptures. God never intended for one man to be in charge, save that Man, Jesus. Where are the changes on the local level to insure oversight?

    Well, you note a very important one: “Elders who display a life lived according to the qualifications set forth in Scriptures” should be viewed more seriously than it has been.

    Too many of these reports about bad-boy “pastors” who fail morally had “elders” which covered their misbehaving. I have been in church for near 3/4 of a century (predominantly Southern Baptist works). I have known only a few deacons/elders who fully met the Biblical qualifications for that sacred office according to 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. Many of these folks obtain that position because they are popular in the church, prominent in the community, wealthy, buds with the pastor, or other reasons not on the list of qualifications. In many of SBC’s New Calvinist church plants you will find young pastors fresh out of seminary, with “elder” boards of similar age in their 20s-30s. Paul advises the church “Never be in a hurry to ordain a man, or you may be making yourself responsible for his sins” (1 Timothy 5:22). When we put flesh babies over a congregation of mostly flesh babies, it is a recipe for disaster … and the church membership shares the shame when they fail. We need to take the Word of God more seriously in regard to who leads the church and not accept just anyone who shows up in the pulpit or on deacon/elder boards … the spiritual health of the church is at stake.

  101. Concerned Citizen: Their only local family was their church family. A large part of her business was built on clientale from the church. How would this affect her job?

    “SHUN THE UNBELIEVER…. SHUUUUUNNNN… SHUUUNNNNN…”
    — “Charlie the Unicorn” video

  102. dee: You have been commenting on this blog for a long time and you regularly *can’t believe* the victim. I am sooooo glad you are such a strong adult who would never, ever, ever find yourself in such a situation.

    She’s a sub-type of “GOD’s Special Pet”.

    You know? The one who since the instant they Said the Sinner’s Prayer has Never, Ever had an instant of doubt – only their unshakable Faith Faith Faith. (“O Ye of Little FAITH. Tsk. Tsk.”) Never, Ever had any problem with any sin, only their inerrant Righteousness. (“O Ye slaves to SIN. Tsk. Tsk.”) Never, Ever a time of hardship — why, God’s Angels carry them everywhere they go 24/7 lest they might dash their foot against a stone! (“O Ye of Little FAITH. Tsk. Tsk.”)

    All smug and secure and (unlike YOU) Right With God.
    Real PITA, ain’t they?

  103. Mack,

    “I think the first thing to remember is that we are all sinners. Hopefully repentant and saved by Grace, but sinners.”
    +++++++++++

    hi, Mack. i truly appreciated your comment.

    wondered about the point of this statement above.

    it’s a given we’re all sinners. why the need to mention it?

    you and i can forthrightly call out egregious wrong when we see it, no self-deprecation or apology required. what’s wrong is wrong.

  104. Brian: when the girls were discussing this, did they understand this was wrong?

    No. The first to mention it was a boy, who thought it was incredibly romantic. He showed pics the girl posted of herself hugging the man. I was the only one who thought there was anything wrong. Then they started innocently mentioning creepy details about how she was going to be stepmother to one of her classmates.

    Those dear sweet kids were so naive. And I was trying to drive while asking, “Didn’t you just say he got fired over this?”

  105. Friend: Then they started innocently mentioning creepy details about how she was going to be stepmother to one of her classmates.

    What on…

    So. somebody’s dad picked up one of his kids classmates, basically.

  106. Mack: With most churches of many different denominations experiencing these same type of allegations as well as the progressive/liberal movement attacking

    The attackers we worry about on TWW are sexual assailants.

    It is too easy to discredit victims, and their supporters, by painting them as feminists, liberals, gold-diggers, Marxists, etc. Since you are new to TWW, you might not realize that we are a theologically diverse bunch, united in the cause of making church a safer place. Some of us were even baptized as infants!

  107. Friend: The attackers we worry about on TWW are sexual assailants.

    Nicely put.

    Churches taking care of these problems properly would mean that we would all be on the same side on this issue, liberals and conservatives and feminists and crazy patriarchal types alike. The problem is that we are not. So i’ll stick with the side that seems to care and let the chips roll where they may.

  108. Lea,

    Yes. His work with a youth activity brought him into contact with his children’s peers. Since this happened in a secular setting with rules and laws, the man did get the boot.

  109. Mack: I think the first thing to remember is that we are all sinners. Hopefully repentant and saved by Grace, but sinners.

    Very few can be placed on a pedestal without changing. They become “Rock Stars”.

    True about all us sinners. But there’s just something about a preacher-sinner who can’t keep his pants on! I’ve known several men of God when placed on a pedestal who did not change. There’s a vast difference between a man of God and a preacher-boy. The American church has far too many of the latter who enjoy the spotlight and accolades as they pursue celebrity status. Instead of Grace, they serve up cheap grace which doesn’t save at all.

  110. Lea: the side that seems to care

    Nobody is doing enough, so I don’t think any side deserves a pat on the back. Folks on TWW are everything from RCC, EO, LCMS, SBC, through the mainline and all the way to Done, None, agnostic, and atheist, and I’m sure I’ve omitted many.

  111. Friend,

    I didn’t mean that as in one particular side seems to care (and I agree no one has done ‘enough’ although I think some are better than others). I meant more, the people who seem to care no matter which side they fall on? Does that make more sense?

  112. Lea,

    “Whoever welcomes this child in my name welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me; for the least among all of you is the greatest.” –Luke 9:48

    (Thanks, Lea. I think I misunderstood you.)

  113. Friend: (Thanks, Lea. I think I misunderstood you.)

    It made sense in my head but I completely got how you read it too!

    There just plain *should not be sides* on this issue. I try to imagine being on the side of the creepy swinging/stalking dude should totally be a pastor side and i’m just drawing an absolute blank.

  114. Friend,

    What year and state did this occur? I graduated high school in 1985. I never heard of this happening among my peers.

  115. Brian,

    This happened within the past 10 years in a state with consent at age 18 (and exceptions for younger teens in relationships with kids their own age). Nobody here had ever heard of anything like this either. I believe it came to light when the girl began posting “engagement” photos, and adults took swift action.

  116. Mack: I think the first thing to remember is that we are all sinners. Hopefully repentant and saved by Grace, but sinners.

    Hi Mack. Welcome.
    I’m not sure this is the first thing to remember here – the first thing is that people are valuable & victims matter. Only once that is established can we move on to look at sin, because once we start to talk about sin, a lot of people seem to think this makes abusing people okay, & their pain forgettable, because ‘they’re sinners too’. Another thing would be that child sexual abuse is worse than consensual adult sexual sin, that there are lesser & greater sins & we should weigh them rightly.

  117. Beakerj: Mack: I think the first thing to remember is that we are all sinners. Hopefully repentant and saved by Grace, but sinners.
    Hi Mack. Welcome.
    I’m not sure this is the first thing to remember here – the first thing is that people are valuable & victims matter.

    Without that TWW Prime Directive, Mack’s theology will lead to Sin-Levelling as Excuse Machine.

    Not that Mack is wrong, but his doctrine is Incomplete and needs to be balanced out.
    One of the definitions of Heresy is a single doctrine taken in isolation that ends up taking you over.
    As Pope John Paul put it, “A fanatic is someone with one piece of a pie who thinks he has the whole pie.”

  118. HUG: “Not that Mack is wrong, but his doctrine is Incomplete and needs to be balanced out.”

    It’s not ‘wrong’ but it’s useless in this context, and only serves to distract from the issue.

    And here is where my non-catholic self yet again brings up the idea of venial and mortal sins, because I find it’s a helpful distinction that is instinctive to some but seems to be lost in other quarters. [there is also a difference in a sin and a sin committed against *someone else* – just lumping it all under generic ‘sin’ leaves out the responsibility of making things right entirely]

  119. I can’t find the post that was supposed to be published today to reveal more of the story. Is this post coming in late or blocked by the lawyer?

  120. Beakerj: Another thing would be that child sexual abuse is worse than consensual adult sexual sin, that there are lesser & greater sins & we should weigh them rightly.

    This is what common sense, fairness, and indeed our criminal justice system here in the States (and I dare say in the UK too?) is based on.

    Not so with much of Evangelical Protestantism. In their religion, all offenses are the same because God has a completely different base-line of fairness and justice.

    My jay-walking deserves the same hangman’s noose as a mass murderer in God’s economy, and they’ve got the Scriptures that allegedly ‘prove it’

  121. Someone mentioned Celebrate Recovery in a comment above, and it appeared they were not familiar with it.

    I have a friend who leads Celebrate Recovery groups at her church in the midwest. At its most basic, it could be described as a Christian version of AA, and there’s a case to be made that CR is what AA was originally intended to be by its founders. At some point in its history, AA made the change from participants relying on God to enable their recovery to invoking a “higher power.” CR puts God back in, and if I recall correctly from what my friend described to me, the steps go much deeper in terms of the spiritual/Christian aspect. For one thing, they spend a great deal of time on the forgiveness step, again if I recall correctly.

    Also, CR covers more than just substance abuse and addiction. According to their website, they also address codependency, anger, abuse, eating disorders and other unhealthy coping mechanisms that people use to try to self-medicate their pain.

  122. StillWiggling: Someone mentioned Celebrate Recovery in a comment above …

    And there were concerns expressed in ensuing comments that Boles’ involvement with vulnerable folks could yield “prey” for the pastor-predator. Leaders of the local Celebrate Recovery chapter near Boles should be made aware of this pastor with a past and his planned interactions with the people they are trying to help.

  123. Hello, Mack, and welcome. I agree with much of what you wrote. However, I used to belong to a church that placed a huge emphasis on having multiple pastors at each individual congregation. The theory was that if one pastor fell into error, the others could help and correct him. What actually happened was that the pastors became a clique who covered up for each other. I now believe that no system of theology, and no form of church government, has any inherent power to prevent sin. Only moment by moment dependence on Christ can do that. I’ve also come to the conclusion that one of the most important things we can do for any pastor we love and respect is to pray that he will not fall into sexual sin.