Rebecca’s Story: Calvary Gospel Church, WI, Encouraged Her to Date and Marry Her Alleged Pedophile Molester

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If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Matthew 18:6 NIV


Debbie McNulty, from Wednesday’s post, has a blog called Surviving Church and Childhood. She’s written a number of stories on the abuse of others as well as covering topics related to her abuse as a child. I highly recommend putting it on your short list.

Also, today I left a voice message for Pastor John Grant. I told him that I was writing stories of women who were molested in his church as children and teens. I offered to post a statement from him and left my contact information. I explained that I would be writing stories next week as well so that he has plenty of time to respond if he so desires.

Today I’m telling Rebecca’s story.  I will be quoting from Debbie’s blog as well as Rebecca’s correspondence with me. Debbie quoted Rebecca’s words in A Second Victim Steps Forward – Rebecca’s Story

So, when I quote from Debbie’s blog, you will be reading Rebeccas words.

Also, for the time being, we will not be naming the pedophile due to an ongoing investigation.

Insulation and isolation: Rebecca’s family joined Calvary Gospel Church, WI, when she was in 3rd grade and enrolled her in the school for 4th grade.

On Debbie’s website, Rachel reported that, upon joining the church, her entire childhood was enveloped by this insulated community. She recognizes that this isolation made the kids easy marks for abusers.

Rebecca was born in 1976.

My parents joined Calvary Gospel United Pentecostal Church when I was in the 3rd grade. Soon after my sister and I were enrolled in the church’s school. My childhood was completely enveloped by the UPC. Parents were expected to take a backseat roll in favor of teaching whatever the church dictated. My parents questioned nothing, and allowed everything, as long as it was within the church’s walls.

Needless to say, we were easy targets for anyone wanting to take advantage of vulnerable kids. If we questioned anything or any of the leaders, we were disciplined and labeled rebellious. Calvary Gospel is a tight-knit community, where any independent thought is quashed and shunning is commonplace, it can be frightening to show any independence. I witnessed parents who disowned children and teenagers forced to make public apologies in front of the congregation. It was built into all of us if the “man of god” said it, it was unquestionably true.

This is most likely a pedophile situation.

Rebecca met the man who would molest her in her Sunday school class. She was 10 years old and he was 27 years old. He began grooming her quickly.

What is pedophilia and why is it a serious psychiatric disorders. Wikipedia gives a definition:

Pedophilia (alternatively spelt paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2] Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] A person must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.[4][5]

It is important to understand the problems surrounding pedophilia so one can understand the serious errors that this church made when confronted about Rebecca’s situation. The Harvard Mental Health Letter featured an article called Pessimism about Pedophilia.

Key points

  • Pedophilia is a sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable someone to resist acting on his sexual urges.
  • No intervention is likely to work on its own; outcomes may be better when the patient is motivated and treatment combines psychotherapy and medication.
  • Parents should be aware that in most sexual abuse cases involving children, the perpetrator is someone the child knows.

From Debbie’s website we can clearly see the grooming tactics used to gain her affection and attention. I am stunned that no one in the church noticed or cared to comment on the behavior of this youth leadership.

Everyone knew he favored me and teased me about him constantly. I was called his “little girlfriend”. He would give me rides, leave notes in my school desk, show up at my house or my friend’s houses if he knew I was there, he came to every youth function, every service, everywhere I was.

When she turned 12, his pursuit of his *little girlfriend* began to escalate. He wouldn’t leave her alone.

Rebecca said:

It was the month I turned 12 (July 1988) that he first made inappropriate physical contact with me. We were at Great America in Illinois for a friend’s birthday party, and he was a “chaperone”. He started by standing behind me and wrapping his arms around my waist, kissing my neck, and holding my hand while we walked around. He rode with me on a few rides and would have me lean on him while his arms were around me, etc.

These behaviors continued, and since our lives completely revolved around the church, and we went to school and youth groups there, we literally were in the church building more than home, he had very easy access to me. He would show up while I was in school, he became a youth leader, would show up at my house or my friend’s houses, eventually even coming to where I worked. He would take me out to eat, buy me clothing, etc. He would be everywhere I was, and even started hanging out at my house multiple times a week. I felt he was everywhere I was, and I could never get away from him.

The pastor and her parents were told of this behavior and they failed to protect her. In fact, as you will see, they appear to condone the relationship.

She was told by the pastor that she would ruin her molester’s life, make the church look bad, and cause people not to *come to Jesus* if she stuck to her story. In the aftermath,  even her parents refused to discuss this with her.

When I was 12 or 13, (88-89) I wrote some letters to a girl I had met that attended a different UPC church, and her older sister attended mine. I told her some things that he was doing with me. Her older sister saw the letters and gave them to my then pastor, John Grant. Before I knew he had them, my perpetrator found me in the church parking lot and pushed me up against a car, telling me I needed to lie or I’d ruin his life. I knew then that he had found out I wrote the letters.

I was then called into the pastor’s office along with my parents. I was told that if what I had written was true, I could ruin his life and make the church look bad, and if the church looked bad, people wouldn’t come to church, and if they don’t come to church, they don’t get saved, and if they’re not saved, they go to hell, and it would be my fault.

My parents never discussed these letters with me, or acknowledged them in any way.

Graphic/Trigger Warning: Sexual activity commenced. Her mother took her to get birth control

I was 14 (1990) when we first had actual penile-vaginal contact. Previous to this, he would put his fingers inside me, have me rub on him, rub his penis on top of me, have me give him “hand-jobs”, open-mouth kissing, etc. He was 31 when I was 14.

I was 15 when I took my first pregnancy test. He took me to his work after hours, and I used the bathroom there. Shortly after my mom took me to the doctor and I was started on birth control. My mom was NOT in the appointment, but I did tell her that I was prescribed birth control as she had to pick it up at the pharmacy for me.

Rebecca believed that he had done this with other girls, as well. Yet her parents and pastor appeared to encourage this relationship!

I guess they wanted her to marry a *minister.* From Rebecca and Debbie:

What I find exceptionally frustrating, is my perpetrator had a history of inappropriate contacts with other underage girls, and had previously gotten caught having sex with another young girl. After this, I realized there was no help, as both my parents and my pastor did nothing to stop this relationship, and if anything, they all encouraged it. I feel as if I gave up and let this relationship happen to me, as I knew I’d never get away from him.

He threatened me, telling me it would be my fault if he got into trouble, that he wouldn’t be able to able to become a minister.

Rebecca and her abuser became a couple, dating from 15-18 with the apparent approval of the pastors, the church members, and her parents.

From Rebecca:

From 15 – 18, I was continued to allow to “date” this man, and it was not a secret. It was well known that we were a couple. We would sit together in church, go out to eat with church members, attend church camp together, etc.

Form Debbie:

I can’t wrap my head around how all of the church adults knew we were a “couple”. How was it appropriate and acceptable for a 33-year-old man to be dating a 16-year-old girl? And of course, the sex continued.

He would show up wherever I was. At my school, my job, at my friend’s houses, and my driver’s ed class. He once picked me up and took me to the duplex he shared with a few other guys. He was on top of me in his bed when he heard one of his roommates come home. He shoved me into his closet and shut the door hiding me so his roommate wouldn’t see. I don’t know how long I was in there. Maybe minutes, maybe an hour. It was long enough that he grabbed some old fast food cups and gave me one so he could tell my mom that he took me there to eat instead of where he had really taken me.

All I know is, I felt so demeaned, so ashamed, so lost. I felt hopeless. He controlled my every move. I couldn’t date anyone else, I couldn’t go anywhere, I couldn’t do anything, without him. After every sexual contact, he would make me get down on my knees and read Psalm 51 out loud and repent. Thinking of it makes me sick to this day. I hated it. I never liked praying out loud. I never saw the point in wanting others to listen to me. My prayers were between me and god. But I did it, read the Psalm and begged for forgiveness. “Ben” would assure me that he forgave me too.

Rebecca married her pedophile when she was 18 with the blessings of her church and parents.

Rebecca told me that her marriage had been filled with abuse which should come as no surprise to those who understand pedophilia and molestation.

Rebecca said:

I married my perpetrator in 1995, when I was 18. He was 36. I separated from him in 2005 and we eventually divorced in 2006.

Rebecca, thank you for sharing your story with us. I believe your story and my heart goes out to you for the suffering that you endured .

When churches encourage pedophiles to marry.

However, do you think that Rebecca is alone in being manipulated into marrying a pedophile? Do you think this might only happen in the UPCI/Calvary Gospel Church. Nope, it happened to one of The Gospel Coalition’s celebrity pastors, Doug Wilson, who most definitely a Trinitarian and who most definitely marries a serial pedophile.

Warning: the following information may be triggering to some who have been abused.

The Real Doug Wilson Encouraged & Presided Over the Marriage of Serial Pedophile

In this scenario, Doug Wilson, who showed much *care and concern * to his favorite pedophile, Steven Sitler, presided over his marriage to a naive young woman in his congregation. The video has been taken down, but in it, one could have heard *Pastor* Wilson praying for the couple and their possible future children.

Sadly, when their first child was born, Steven admitted that he had sexual feelings for his baby boy. The judge said he could never be alone with his child but he could still live at home. This just goes to prove that having a Trinitarian perspective on Scripture does not mean a pastor will make a sane decision when it comes to pedophiles.

Shame on all of them!


Comments

Rebecca’s Story: Calvary Gospel Church, WI, Encouraged Her to Date and Marry Her Alleged Pedophile Molester — 66 Comments

  1. What an horrific & outrageous story. I’m so sorry this happened to Rebecca & good for her for speaking out.

    What on earth was wrong with her family & the people around her? Ruin his life? Ruin HIS life? Allowing her to be sexually abused & knowingly getting her birth means her Mum was complicit with her abuse, as seemingly were all the adults around her.

    What I really don’t get is how ‘Christian’ people, & the ridiculous over-emphasis on purity in sexual things, have this blind spot where full on rape of children is somehow exempt from the man involved being accused of sexual sin. As well as crime. Her family knew he was having sex with her, called himself a Christian, was part of the church etc, huh? I bet if she had an age appropriate boyfriend & any sexual contact happened they’d have been all over it.

    I bet he’s just moved on to another very young victim for his next ‘marriage’ & Rebecca will be considered bitter & sinful.

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  2. JH,

    He wasn’t related to anyone in leadership. Calvary Gospel just seems to be ok with 30-ish year old men dating 14 year old girls. There have been so many cases coming out of that church with many different men.

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  3. Debbie McNulty: Calvary Gospel just seems to be ok with 30-ish year old men dating 14 year old girls.

    Sorry to ask, but how do adults justify that in their own minds? Do they think of it as an older Christian man having a right to a pure young wife?

    I assume that a 14-year-old boy is not allowed to show romantic interest in a girl his own age…

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  4. A very sad and disturbing account of sexual abuse. Thank you Rebecca for being strong, courageous, by candidly addressing the horrible abuse you suffered.

    I find it so disturbing the parents allowed this, encouraged this sick relationship. What the … ? Yes, the church is responsible as well, but IMO, the parents cultivated the perversion.

    This story bothers me a lot, as I was groomed by a pedophile, from age 6 to about 12. I still get a knot in my stomach when I think about it and that was over 55 years ago. Pedophiles can be in any congrgation. They are very crafty. The man who was grooming me achieved his PH.d from M.I.T.

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  5. Beakerj: What I really don’t get is how ‘Christian’ people, & the ridiculous over-emphasis on purity in sexual things, have this blind spot where full on rape of children is somehow exempt from the man involved being accused of sexual sin.

    So long as you’re not having sex outside of marriage with another consenting adult, you’re good to go.

    Fundagelicalism truly is a bizarre religion.

    Its parallels with Wahhabi Islam are striking.

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  6. Not much to say about this story except “WOW”.

    The church encouraging this “relationship” is bad enough, but what were her parents thinking? Were they brainwashed by this church cult or were the parents just brain dead?

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  7. Friend,

    Yeah they are super concerned with anything you might be doing with someone your own age. If asked they would tell you it is all sexual sin. The big question is why do they look the other way for adult men?

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  8. Muff Potter,

    The thing is they care more about their little kingdom than they do protecting victims. The story comes to light and the pastor is immediately afraid of how it will look for the church. Will it bring shame to the congregation or his ministry. Will they lose members and then money because those folks are gone.

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  9. It no longer surprises me when I hear things as outrageous as these. The reality is that any person who decides to leverage God into a means of exercising authority over other people is exceedingly wicked! Their fruit will also be exceedingly wicked! They build their own personal evil empires where God and the Bible are manipulation tools used in the same way that Satan used what he had to trick and deceive a third of the angels. The wicked white-washed tomb of a “pastor” behind this and the sick, twisted religious cult he created are as much sons of the Devil as the Pharisees were during Jesus life on earth. This mans disciples will be twice the sons of hell as their leader because what Jesus said is true. Rejecting this kind of false religion is the right thing to do.

    There is good news for us today from Ezekiel 34:10 “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.”

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  10. Lois,

    I’m so glad to see and hear these women’s stories and the strength they’ve found. This topic IS “serious and disturbing”. I’m sad that I could not be as supportive, earlier, of relatives and friends that have been more personally affected by this topic. I’ve always believed them, even though they did not share, understandably, their experiences until I was a young adult.

    I’m glad that these topics are getting the exposure, now, that they are. I pray that these women get meaningful support and justice, and the truth about these issues comes out (Go, Dee and others, and thank you!!)

    And I pray that women/men who’ve experienced these types of abuses, can hear and read and be helped by these stories, and others, where there’s meaningful clarifying movement. (I know several people who could not even read here or even converse privately, for long, about this topic).

    Elie Wiesel said: “The opposite of love is not hate. It’s indifference.” I also like Elie Wiesel’s words regarding friendship.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/412210-and-what-is-a-friend-more-than-a-father-more

    ” It is a friend that you communicate the awakening of a desire, the birth of a vision or a terror, the anguish of seeing the sun disappear or of finding that order and justice are no more. ”

    “In the mouth of a philosopher, these questions may have a false ring, but asked during adolescence or friendship, they have the power to change being:”

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  11. I think it is really important that Dee highlights the fact that Doug Wilson encourages this, and his is part of the Gospel Coalition.
    It is my experience that the more the specific “brand” of Christianity claims they are the true way, and that all others are “wrong”, the more the leaders get into a power trip and they cover for this depraved behavior by appealing to the “if this gets out, it will make the church and cause of christ look bad”…. this needs to translated to: “ if this gets out, it makes ME, and my dudbros look bad”…
    so, it more important that the pastor in this looks good, than the lives that this pedo ruined…

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  12. Beakerj: What on earth was wrong with her family & the people around her?

    Indeed. The idea that people were teasing about her being his ‘girlfriend’ at ten is insane.

    I think many people in these terrible churches seem to think they should fix the ‘mistake’ of premarital sex of any kind by marriage and they apply it to all sorts of situations without consent, which is appalling.

    I hate everything about this story. So sorry.

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  13. Beakerj: I bet if she had an age appropriate boyfriend & any sexual contact happened they’d have been all over it.

    Right? What is up with that nonsense?

    They’ll give grown men a pass and come down like a ton of bricks on a teenage (or younger!) girl. I can only think of one reason for this double standard…

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  14. Sabrina is also a former member of Calvary Gospel Church. In a 16 minute video, she shares her thoughts on what has been happening and calls on the church to come forward and face the truth.

    “This is my request to all of you, to please understand my anger. And for those that think that…we’re trying to get attention or that this is fun for us, no, it’s not fun for us. It’s not fun for us to call out people that we once trusted and tell the truth about them. When those very same people were the ones that always said that lying is a sin. So tell the truth. That’s all there is to it. There’s no reason to sit back and fear, “Oh no our church is being attacked!” You’re not being attacked. You’re being called to come forward and face the truth. That’s all it is.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oechQBNYW4

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  15. Debbie McNulty:
    Friend,

    Yeah they are super concerned with anything you might be doing with someone your own age. If asked they would tell you it is all sexual sin. The big question is why do they look the other way for adult men?

    Simple.

    RANK HATH ITS PRIVILEGES.
    Especially when bestowed by Divine Right.

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  16. Friend: Sorry to ask, but how do adults justify that in their own minds? Do they think of it as an older Christian man having a right to a pure young wife?

    I assume that a 14-year-old boy is not allowed to show romantic interest in a girl his own age…

    Can’t have new yearlings competing with the Herd Bulls for the newly-flowered females, can we?

    In herd-harem behavior, a newly-flowered female is harem material (spread that DNA!);
    a newly-flowered male is a THREAT, unwanted competition for those wombs.

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  17. Ken P.:
    Not much to say about this story except “WOW”.

    The church encouraging this “relationship” is bad enough, but what were her parents thinking? Were they brainwashed by this church cult or were the parents just brain dead?

    In medieval aristocracy, Great Houses tried to marry their newly-flowered daughters into higher-ranking Greatest Houses. NOt necessarily married – mistresses of the Highborn could also raise a family’s fortunes, prestige, influence, and POWER.

    “Uniting House Baratheon with House Lannister for the Iron Throne” and “securing House Stark’s Wardenship of the North for House Bolton” were based on RL.

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  18. Debbie McNulty:
    JH,

    He wasn’t related to anyone in leadership. Calvary Gospel just seems to be ok with 30-ish year old men dating 14 year old girls. There have been so many cases coming out of that church with many different men.

    First Church of Ehebephilia?
    (As long as it’s not same-sex…)

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  19. Rebecca,
    I’m so sorry I wasn’t brave enough to say something. The older sister who took that letter to John Grant shared that with me. The older sister stayed with me at my apartment on weekends while dating the man she married (they have divorced). When she shared the letter with me I was in disbelief but knew things were starting to make sense. I encouraged her to take it to John Grant. I was afraid to get involved because I knew there would be consequences. No one would believe me or I would be tagged a “problem”. I wish I had done something. Later when my fiance asked your preditor to be his best man in our wedding I was angry because he didn’t tell me he was going to ask him. I knew you were his “little girlfriend”? And it made me sick. When we were invited to your wedding I refused to attend. My husband was upset about that. It was the first time I had courage to say something. My husband really couldn’t believe it. I don’t think he really knew what was going on. We had left the “church” by that time and I didn’t feel so afraid. The older sister she indeed paid a price for bringing this to John Grants attention. It’s very sad. Later another situation regarding abuse was evident and I tried talking to John Grant by calling and trying to make an appointment to talk with him. I was always ignored and his secretary never allowed me to talk to him. I sent a certified letter to him because I didn’t think she was telling him I was calling. The letter was received but I never heard from John Grant or his secretary. It’s a pattern and I’m sure it has gone on for years. You have paid the ultimate price because people like me didn’t have the courage to say something. I truly wished I had gone with the older sister. I’m sorry I didn’t support her being as young as she was At the time. Rebecca, please forgive me I’m truly sorry. LJF bank then LJS currently.

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  20. 501c3 church in this country is voluntary. ‘They’ ( i.e. certain questionable church organizations, and it’s questionable individuals) can not abuse you and your family unless you let them. Do your homework. The tears and the grief you save may very well be your own. Be smart. Lōōk before you leap. The book will warn you if you will simply read it. Freedom and liberty is in your own hands. Use it. Stop buying into a corrupt religious system. Christianity has been corrupted big time in this country. Watch for it.

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  21. “My heart goes out to all the courageous people who have stepped forward to shine a light where darkness has prevailed for far too long. May your voices prevail and be heard and may the lies of others be exposed.” -Lois

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  22. I appreciate all the kind comments and shows of support.
    As many have mentioned, my parents, and multitudes of other adults on that congregation/cult, are equally at fault. I will never understand how they allowed, even encouraged, these relationships. Unfortunately, I was not the only victim of older predators in this group. The mentality, the thought processes, the lack of caring and responsibility this group fosters is beyond me. It’s not Christian, it’s not decent, and it’s not moral.

    We will continue to fight, and tell our stories, and do our best to be the kind of people we needed when we were young.

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  23. Friend: Sorry to ask, but how do adults justify that in their own minds? Do they think of it as an older Christian man having a right to a pure young wife?

    Because they believe they can import Old Testament fantasies into 21st century reality.
    They apparently haven’t caught on yet that it doesn’t work.

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  24. This is a bit of a tangent but, I think, is within the spirit of Wartburg.

    So, I have a FaceTube / Messenger account (or whatever it’s called) that I hardly ever log into. Sometimes I do, though, and discover that someone messaged me six months ago. To whom, obviously, I haven’t replied.

    Lowlandseer: it seems that you (or someone calling themselves the same thing!) tried messaging me back in January. I discovered this yesterday! I tried replying – better late than never, thought I – but without success. So, if that was indeed you, please accept my apologies for the lack of response. And feel free to try again…

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  25. Not that I think anyone age 30 should be ‘dating’ (preying upon) a 14 year old,

    but I wonder if the types giving the stamp of approval to a 30 year old man “dating” a 14 year old would feel about a 30 year old woman “dating” a 14 year old boy?

    Are they as accepting of this situation when the biological sex of the two people are swapped around?

    I am assuming that most of the people who are OK with a older male / younger female are probably complementarian who buy into gender stereotypes, and they are always big on double standards.

    (What is OK for men to do with them is not okay for women to do.)

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  26. IN THE NEWS

    Outrage as head of New England ‘Center for Church Planting and Revitalization’ declares sexual involvement of a youth pastor in his thirties with a teenager in the youth group is not abuse, but an affair. Wes Pastor, senior pastor of Christ Memorial Church, resisted mandatory reporting, saying he considered the girl ‘mutually culpable’:

    https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2019/08/26/williston-vermont-baptist-pastor-didnt-report-abuse-allegations-right-away-mandated-reporter/1713602001/

    You can tell just what sort of church it by its website’s links page:

    https://www.cmcvermont.org/websites-and-blogs

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  27. Laura Sargent: I was always ignored and his secretary never allowed me to talk to him. I sent a certified letter to him because I didn’t think she was telling him I was calling. The letter was received but I never heard from John Grant or his secretary.

    Laura, do you happen to still have that latter?

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  28. “Though Michael McNeil pleaded guilty to sexual exploitation of a minor in April 2019, Pastor said in August he still does not believe the former youth pastor’s sexual involvement with the victim qualifies as abuse and considers it an affair. He believes the victim was mutually culpable.”

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  29. A number of folks are asking how such perversion could happen among Christians. I’ll tell you how. They hold the belief that females should be dominated by men. That females should not be treated as having equal rights with males, and that women have no say or agency over their own bodies. So when it comes to females, consent doesn’t matter because all that matters is what men want.

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  30. Jerome,

    Here’s a story about this from April:

    McNeil’s attorney says he is a “good man who made a terrible mistake.”

    The girl was older than the age of consent, but younger than 18.

    McNeil admitted that while in a position of power at the Williston church he enticed her to engage in sex acts. Under the law because of his position and being at least four years older, the relationship was non-consensual.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/vermont/articles/2019-04-12/former-youth-pastor-admits-exploiting-teenage-girl

    As of April he needed to stay out of trouble 5 years to avoid sex registry and jail. Another model citizen.

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  31. Darlene: A number of folks are asking how such perversion could happen among Christians.

    In my case it’s not incredulity but an interest in how different groups justify this sick behavior. Do they preach about marrying girls off at menarche? Do they limit education for girls, boys, both? Do they try to marry boys off young too? Is one guy being given a pass because of nepotism? Are they big organizers of local purity balls? Are they proud of this, or do they cover it up? Do they have their own police force? That sort of information can help people see similar patterns, warn folks about what to look for, and maybe help family members who ended up in such congregations.

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  32. Darlene: So when it comes to females, consent doesn’t matter because all that matters is what men want.

    I was trying to respond to Jerome earlier but stopped because I wasn’t sure how to say what I wanted to say, but this is it.

    Consent has to matter and children cannot consent. Period.

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  33. Friend: Sorry to ask, but how do adults justify that in their own minds? Do they think of it as an older Christian man having a right to a pure young wife?

    Or pure young WIVES (plural).
    That’s OT Biblical, too.

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  34. Debbie McNulty:
    Friend,

    Yeah they are super concerned with anything you might be doing with someone your own age. If asked they would tell you it is all sexual sin. The big question is why do they look the other way for adult men?

    RANK HATH ITS PRIVILEGES.
    And rank bestowed by God Himself has the most privileges of all.
    Especially when it comes to Pelvic Issues and Urrrrges in his Arrrreas.

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  35. Lea,

    And I would qualify “consent” with “informed consent”, otherwise it’s not “consent”, IMO. Each new day is an opportunity for “informed consent” or no consent. Trustworthiness, IMO, would not be intimidated by, but would rather desire and be working for, “informed consent”.

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  36. Lea:
    I have to say, there are a lot of men on the MRA and patriarchal christianity side of things who are downright *hostile* to consent, including people like Doug Wilson. It is disturbing.

    Consent interferes with the need to slake the Urrrrrges in his Arrrrrreas.

    If he actually were who he likes to cosplay, he’d just force himself on his Tenants/Peasants/Serfs/Slaves.

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  37. If a 30 year old came near me when I was a girl and my mom had found out, I’m not sure there’d be enough left of him to fill a dustpan. Shame shame shame on these parents.

    I’ve also in hearing about Jeffrey Epstein’s shenanigans with 14 and 15 year old girls. There’s no way I would have allowed my daughter to hang unchaperoned with some much older rich guy that I did not know. When my daughter was that age, I knew where she was at all times

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