Hi Dee,

Thank you for all your hard work. In the midst of all these types of situations, what has become of the mandatory reporter issue? As a nurse, I was a mandatory reporter. As a police officer, my husband was a mandatory reporter. Am I to understand those in church leadership, volunteer positions, etc. are not mandatory reporters?

Thanks for your insight.

dee: The explosion is a demonstrative expression of charismatic gifting?

See this: https://youtu.be/a54iqEr1flQ

” … Ed Young at 2nd Baptist and CJ Mahaney at SGC Louisville know where the bodies are buried …” (Dee)

Well, I don’t know about Pastor Young, but Pastor Mahaney could probably make your ears burn if he started squealing on the New Calvinist elite. What does a member of Al’s little playgroup really know about the T4G and TGC cast of characters?

“Phillip Bethancourt who serves on the SBC Sex Abuse Study Group …” (Dee)

… is Russell Moore’s right hand man at ERLC … Russell Moore was Al Mohler’s right hand man at SBTS. Mohler is everywhere … everywhere!

“While you guys were so excited to have Driscoll come and discuss the so called skanko Roman sexual culture of UNC, I was wondering why you didn’t see how odd he was?” (Dee)

Because Driscoll was a key player in the New Calvinist movement! They needed him. At one time, ALL the new reformers wanted to be like the potty-mouth preacher from Seattle. He fired them up to scramble to SBC seminaries to get reformed before striking out on their own to restore the gospel to all those millions of poor Southern Baptists who had lost truth along the way. Driscoll was a great marketer for the new reformation, but when his liabilities exceeded his assets, they threw him under the bus … “Driscoll who?” … now it will be “Mahaney who?” … anywho, I wish we could put all of them in our rearview mirror.

Max,

“God has not given us a spirit of fear…..” :/

Check out the Stronger Men’s Conference in late April in Missouri. One of the three speakers is Mark Driscoll. What were the planners of this conference thinking ?

SH: I hope some significant changes are made while the iron is hot.

There will be a lot of talking while the iron is hot, but as soon as the iron cools, it will be business as usual.

The SBC leadership has nothing but their ability to persuade to make anything happen at the church level. Hopefully there will be some changes made to the SBC entities that will help, but no real changes will happen at the local church level because “abuse doesn’t happen at my church”.

I am afraid that there is only one way to make significant change; lots and lots of lawsuits.

Based on your comment that they may pick on a small rural church to send the message, then given what I read about Bolivar Baptist in rural Denton County, I would have no problem kicking them out the door.

The pastor started having sex with a 14-year-old, impregnated her at 18, pays child support and is STILL the pastor at that church? They NEED to go. If that “sends a message” then it needs to be sent.

The ones in Garland and Bedford appear to have made changes to policies, so they should at least be put on watch for a couple of years to see if that is the case.

But no, Second Baptist won’t be gone. If the SBC kicks out one megachurch, how many more will follow? Too many for them to take the risk.

Rachael Denhollander discusses the Sovereign Grace Scandal:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NeY_7O5BvD4

;~)

Judy Eddy,

In California pastors are mandatory reporters. Don’t know about other states.

https://brnow.org/News/February-2010/Southeastern-academic-dean-resigns-abruptly

I guess the commenters on that news article owe Scarborough an acknowledgement too.

So why mention David Nelson? Just say it.

So why mention David Nelson?

Dee, this post is superb in every way. Indeed, God had you experience marginalization (and worse) from the church, so that you could really reach out to victims and know something of what they have gone through as well.

My eyes have really been opened, over the past 2 years, to the problems of abuse coverups and misogyny in the evangelical church. TWW has been a big part of that.

I pray daily that God can use me somehow to address these problems in the church, if in His will… I’m praying and seeking what that might mean.

Anyway, your predictions about Greear not disfellowshipping the “important” churches in the end ring true, sadly.

Ken P.: a good chunk of SBC church members don’t even know they are SBC (example: Summit Church, until Greear became SBC president)

I would say that members in most SBC New Calvinist church plants are not aware of their SBC affiliation. SBC’s home mission agency is currently planting such churches at the rate of 1,000 per year; their true mission is about planting theology rather than gospel churches, but they wouldn’t tell you this. Their church names have no reference to SBC, with titles like “Summit” which reflect more of a non-denominational status. They have distanced themselves from traditional Southern Baptist identity as if they are ashamed of that. The only reference to SBC might be found tucked away under the “Beliefs” section of their websites where they simply note that they conform to the Baptist Faith & Message (which was revised in 2000 to provide wiggle room for diverse theologies – Al Mohler was on the revision team). If you did an exit poll at these churches, most members would not know they are Southern Baptists. This would also hold true for what the young reformers call “replants” … which are in fact SBC churches which formerly held to traditional SBC belief and practice (non-Calvinist) before they took them over by stealth and deception. Those who identified as Southern Baptist are long gone in most of them.

dee: He has “Night of the Living Dead” shadows under his eyes.

Interesting that you should say that. After watching that video, my wife and I talked about the lack of “life” in the messengers and message of New Calvinism. There just isn’t any soul at the heart of the new reformation that one would credit the Holy Spirit to.

On the other hand, the young lady in the video was full of spiritual life! Southern Baptists of old used to preach like that! (at least in my neck of the woods).

TS00: He truly seems like someone who has been possessed …

… with the spirit of John Calvin.

In that exchange, the young lady stood up for Christ … while the young Mohler slinked back a bit, but still stood for Calvin at the end. She mentioned that she had to leave to go take a test … well, I think she took a test at that microphone and passed it; Jesus gave her an A+.

Will any of the SBC churches be making it safe for parishioners and their children? How do we know it is safe to attend a local SBC body?

Max:
“Your argument went something like this. Look at all of these fancy pants leaders. If they support Driscoll and Mahaney, what is wrong with the two of you?” (Dee)

That’s sort of like saying “Woman, get behind me!”

New Calvinist treatment of women is becoming legendary.My earliest memory of a Southern Baptist leader vocally subordinating women dated back to a Q&A session young Al Mohler had when assuming the presidency of SBTS in 1993.Note his chilling stare in this video clip from that day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk_VQgsjFz8

Gosh you’re right, is he not the very picture of young, pseudo-intellectual neocalvinist, with a lot of issues to work through because the girls just didn’t go for his geeky vibe back in school, and now here he is, an odd young man understanding neither God nor man nor woman nor himself, on the cusp of unleashing his pent up fury on a perfectly decent denomination and a perfectly good, academically sound seminary.

I’ve seen it before: the misfit who has never had a real relationship with a woman, understands them not at all, unlike Jesus having no appreciation for their intellect and spirituality, who latches onto neocalvinism and thinks by gosh they now understand the Deep Magic, the gnosis, and it gives their lives meaning and gives them power and allows them to work out their closeted hatred for women in the name of God.

I tell you straight up, that explains at least some of what has happened over the last 20-some years to the SBC and with the rise of neocalvinism. We are not dealing with the best and brightest here—Mohler’s a case study. If Mohler’s the Great Genius of the movement, no wonder it’s slowly imploding.

What an absolute joke of a list…no Prestonwood, no Newspring, no Stonebridge church. This is about optics and PR damage control. The only churches on the Baptist Pope’s bad list are the ones highlighted in the original HC 3 part series.

Law Prof,

The “intellectual” shitck on Mohler was planted early because he was the youngest seminary prez at 33 and it was before social media. Frankly, his CV doesn’t back it up. He was listed in Time mag as as an upcoming evangelical influencer. Wonder where they got that information?

As to hating women, not sure about that. You should meet his wife. I am scared of her! She is the perfect “help meet” for him. Lol.

Would engaging my family’s attorney in a conversation with officials of my local SBC church expedite the awareness, proactive urgency, and administration I require for the safety of my children? And the legal ramifications they might face if they don’t keep them safe? Or should have an offender in employment, or in attendance there? Do you have information if SBC parishioners have individuallly taken a local SBC church to court for revealed negligence?

If Evangelical Protestantism had an ounce of courage, they’d take Pope Francis’s lead (he fired 3 cardinals) and do some disfellowshipping.

guest:
Will any of the SBC churches be making it safe for parishioners and their children? How do we know it is safe to attend a local SBC body?

It’s sad to say, but I don’t think you should. Ever. Keep the kids with you on Sunday mornings. If churches tell you that you can’t, leave.

dee,

I guess you can take it if you can dish it. 🙂

You will notice that this follow up Chronicle article points out that al 10 churches were specifically mentioned in their expose. They seem to infer that Mr. Greear’s response lacks authenticity.

Amy Smith: What an absolute joke of a list…no Prestonwood, no Newspring, no Stonebridge church.

Lydia:
Law Prof,

The “intellectual” shitck on Mohler was planted early because he was the youngest seminary prez at 33 and it was before social media. Frankly, his CV doesn’t back it up. He was listed in Time mag as as an upcoming evangelical influencer. Wonder where they got that information?

As to hating women, not sure about that. You should meet his wife. I am scared of her! She is the perfect “help meet” for him. Lol.

I don’t know specifically if HE PERSONALLY hates women, I should’ve explained that one better. My bad. I don’t know the man. But I can speak from personal experience having been an elder in a neocal and having had young, full of (perhaps phony) passion for God, who confided their inner hatred for women to me. Almost a cliché. And he does seem the very type, at least superficially.

It’s not hard to connect the dots between these unresolved personal issues in these young men and their creation of a theology that totally marginalizes the women in their lives. The neocal church where I was an elder was utterly male-dominated. Middle-aged women like my wife and others, women who loved Jesus, had decades of experience serving Him, who were highly-educated, some of whom were successful entrepreneurs, were almost completely disregarded and looked down upon by arrogant young men (most in their 20s), uneducated or half-educated, with little experience in their faith, who were put in positions of great authority and their opinions revered.

My wife was never able to connect with the wives of the young Calvinist men, either—and she tried. But all they wanted to discuss were window treatments and nail polish. They were very well-kept, they took care of all the exterior stuff, hair and jewelry and makeup and everything just so–quite externally beautiful. But they were almost to a woman willfully, proudly ignorant. If any of the young contingent of women ever paid attention to any of the abuse their young husbands were meting out, if they ever cared one whit about the theology, we never saw a sign of it. A 40-something with a grad degree in the hard sciences and doctoral work, a former academic and Fortune 500-type like my wife, was a complete nonentity there. I think the young men had a mixture of fear and contempt for her, and to the young ladies, she was a nonentity.

It was a mess—and it didn’t last. And now what’s left of all those young people? close to 10 years on, about half of them have turned either to New Age mysticism or hard core atheism.

Max: “axeman”

Chop away the old SBC … make room for the new. All in the name of the “Conservative Resurgence” (which was really a “Calvinist Resurgence”).

Eli,

“I pray daily that God can use me somehow to address these problems in the church, if in His will… I’m praying and seeking what that might mean.”
+++++++++++++++++++

my thoughts on His will —

Assuming God has feelings, i think God enjoys observing us make informed decisions/choices.

One can pray for weeks, months, extending into years before doing anything.

I know from experience — i stayed in a highly toxic, controlling church for far too long, waiting for God to show me what his will was. i had bought into the notion that anything other than the bullseye of God’s perfect will was settling.

and what a disappointment you are to God (& everyone!) when you settle. (or so was the belief system i had bought into)

the lightning bolt never came. not even a little electrical buzz, no strong impressions, no one saying “You are to leave, thus saith the lord”, no string of coincidences pointing to “leave”.

the fact of the matter is a blinking warning alarm had been going off in me for years. but i had silenced my own thoughts, my own voice. which had long recognized “this is wrong. this is destructive.” The evidence was rife, in the lives of others who had left and who stayed, and in my own life.

so that is a large part of what has informed my perspective.

my view is that God can work with plan A, plan B, plan C…

if something is wrong, if something is right, is there’s something productive we can begin to do about either, let’s do it.

a stationary marble, waiting to be pushed, can’t be directed. once it’s in motion, then it can be directed.

i don’t believe there is one plan, and anything else is settling.

We can choose A, B, C,… (no route is a straight line, all are circuitous). God joins us, God’s ability with our ability, God’s voice with our voice, God’s hand with our hand in whatever decisions we make.

(i know this is all unsolicited, and presumptuous on my part)

elastigirl,

Pretty much the same experience I had. You get in a dangerous place and you don’t want to leave because you have friends (or think you have friends) and you have invested time and emotional effort into the place and the sunk costs fallacy will get you good. So you’ll “wait on God”, when you know good and well, deep down, that He’s already been speaking to you all along, those uneasy feelings, those alarm bells. I’ve been there, done that!

Reminds me of this from a Steve Martin movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkcKQmr7kRc

Max,

And I know you’ve mentioned it before, but what is the justification behind this ‘church planting’ emphasis? Are they going to nations and cities and communities that have a dearth of churches, and no opportunity to hear the gospel?

Or are they simply striving to become the dominant voice, pushing their particular doctrines and version of the gospel, often surreptitiously behind the hip band and good coffee? If I ever do church again, they will not have a band, and I will bring my own coffee.

7blockquote cite=”comment-395279″>

Mark R:
It is true that an SBC affiliate church can withdraw at any time.
However, few people know that there are two catches:
1.Some churches have deed restrictions in their property that state if the congregation ceases being SBC, the property reverts to the local association…
2.Also if the church borrowed money from the SBC or one of its entities, if they leave the SBC the balance accelerates automatically (even if they are current on all prior payments).
Those are unusual circumstances but they could come into play if we start seeing mass defections from the SBC.

This goes way back and is more common than people realize.

In the 1950s, most North Carolina churches were convinced to add such a clause in their governing documents.

Southern Baptist historian Nathan Finn:

https://sbcvoices.com/resolved-the-case-for-resolutions-by-nathan-finn/#comment-28166

“In 1954, North Rocky Mount Baptist Church split after its pastor led a majority of the church to vote to disaffilliate with the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina and the SBC…The minority, which wished to remain Southern Baptist, sued the majority…The minority wanted to keep all the assets, including the church’s property.”

“State convention leaders testified on behalf of the minority in court. They also urged all BSCNC churches to amend their bylaws so that, in the event of a similar vote to disaffiliate, all the assets would remain with the minority who wished to remain SBC and BSCNC. Most churches complied.”

A 1982 Baptist Press article “Judge Orders ‘Non-Cooperating’ Church to Return Property to State Convention” reported that:

“Reverter clauses are common across the Southern Baptist Convention”

http://media.sbhla.org.s3.amazonaws.com/5501,17-Aug-1982.pdf

Mark R: deed restrictions … unusual circumstances

I know of one dispute about some very old church property (not SBC). It led to a suit in which the court looked at colonial documents and law. Splits involving property can be very unpredictable. Sometimes, of course, they lead to better churches after everyone recovers.

Law Prof: My wife was never able to connect with the wives of the young Calvinist men, either—and she tried. But all they wanted to discuss were window treatments and nail polish.

Stepford Wife, Kept Woman, or a bit of both?
(And did your wife check about any “Stepford” manufacturer’s mark embossed on their skin?)

They were very well-kept, they took care of all the exterior stuff, hair and jewelry and makeup and everything just so–quite externally beautiful. But they were almost to a woman willfully, proudly ignorant.

All bling-bling on the outside with no substance; just like a McMansion.
“Vogue on the Outside, Vague on the Inside.”

Max,

The following are possible concerns related to the strategies and tactics being used by the New NAMB

This is from an analysis of NAMB strategies.

“Short-sighted Approaches — It appears that we are using tactics that produce quicker results, result in NAMB looking “cool” and successful but have long-term negative consequences.
Placing and/or approving planters to ministry fields that are far removed from their past contexts of living and ministering without examining these issues, preparing the planter and his family, and without connecting them to adequate local churches and leaders of healthy churches in surrounding areas. This will result in more planting failures, which damage not only the planter and his family, but also reflects negatively on all parts of the SBC family to all the individuals and churches which partnered with and supported the planter.
Funding satellite campuses of some mega churches. Danger lies in the growing belief that the faithful CP giving of smaller and mid-size churches is being taken and then redistributed back to mega churches who plant campuses around them that in turn not reach lost people, but reach the church members of those small and mid-size congregations.
Partner with (not sure all that it entails) with historically non-SBC churches to plant churches. I assume this means that SBC funds are being used to start churches who primarily relate to and are committed to non-SBC entities and mission efforts. Such known partnerships include: Harvest Bible Chapel, Acts 29, McLean Bible Church and most probably several others. I don’t know if we are counting them as SBC church plants for our records, but it would be worth inquiring of a NAMB Trustee.“

There’s more to be found from this website, from which the above quote was taken.

http://willmcraney.com/is-the-new-namb-really-working-church-planting/

Lowlandseer,

And you might like this to see where Mr Edsel has stood in relation to abuse cases in the past.

http://willmcraney.com/namb-pres-ezell-attacks-journalist-sexual-abuse-victim/

Max: Well, I’ve actually thought this for years about some of the young whippersnapper reformers infecting SBC life … that they hated their domineering mama, couldn’t get dates in high school, or something of that sort.New Calvinism has provided a way for them to subordinate the life out of women as “lead” pastors via the “beauty of complementarity.”It’s a sickness.

It’s exactly what it is, and it goes far beyond conservative interpretations of a woman’s role as a pastor in church. I was a member of a Southern Baptist church back in the day (early to mid-80s) where they most definitely didn’t support the woman-as-a-pastor paradigm, and yet women were still listened to in the church, young men were expected to regard their elders—and that included women as well as men. Women took an active role, no one seemed to be trying to shut them down, they talked theology, they led prayers and worship, they taught Sunday School. While they might not have filled formal positions of “pastor” (which I think is a made up thing as we now understand it, anyway), they were the backbone of the church in many respects and men listened to them. They had influence. And that was back in the days of good ol’ So Bap types.

These young men today shouldn’t be leading anything. They should shut up and listen to those who’ve been there and done that. That’s generally a biblical standard. About the only possible exception I see in the Bible is Timothy, but there’s an exception to every rule—and frankly, from what I’ve read Timothy may well have been in his late 30s or 40s, not a punk of 23, like the kid they put in charge of finances at my church (the kid with no financial knowledge and a bachelor’s degree in an elementary ed).

And I still consider Mohler a young man, because very obviously not everyone gets older and wiser. Some, particularly those who spend the greater part of their lives shielding themselves with “yes men” from the consequences of their own actions, just get older.

Headless Unicorn Guy: Remember “Womb Tomb” Swanson?
The first time I saw a picture of him (and/or heard his voice in some news story), everything fell into place. He looks like an overripe High School Dork, he sounds like a High School Dork. An Omega Male who found a way to put himself on top as Alpha of Alpha Males by Divine Right, and IT’S PAYBACK TIME! WITH INTEREST!

That’s what’s going on. Many in evangelicalism are being governed by the emotional sickness of very disturbed young men.

Eli: I pray daily that God can use me somehow to address these problems in the church, if in His will… I’m praying and seeking what that might mean.

elastigirl,

Many church goers in my part of the Midwest say “if it’s God’s will” all the time, especially when praying. My take- God gave us free will so that we would make our own choices.

He also created us in His image. One of the things that makes us “in his image” is our capacity to create, not just art (music, song, dance) but a life which is full of joy and good works.

So unless God has told us clearly in the Bible “Don’t do that” or unless he has told us directly through prayer “Don’t go there/take that job/do that” we are perfectly free to choose whatever we want. Not just free, but encouraged by our creator to make such choices. Knowing this sets me free to do good every day of my life. I have full confidence that if for some reason God really doesn’t think my choice our plan is a good idea He will let me know. That has happened maybe twice in my entire Christian life and I’ve served Jesus over 35 years.

Dee – the “appeal to authority”, or, Look at all these leaders who support these men; their popularity alone proves that you are wrong to criticise them – I’m sure it’s occurred to you that this argument, or at least its converse, is actually biblical.

Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law – there is a curse on them.

Fisher,

“we are perfectly free to choose whatever we want. Not just free, but encouraged by our creator to make such choices. Knowing this sets me free to do good every day of my life. I have full confidence that if for some reason God really doesn’t think my choice our plan is a good idea He will let me know.”
+++++++++++++++++

Thanks, Fisher. You really said it well.

i also enjoy being free to do neutral every day of my life.

i enjoy not taking myself so seriously as to think that my every choice, action, word, thought (or circumstance that happens to me) is spiritual cause & effect. has a spiritual connection.

i love making choices that are simply practical. That simply make me happy. Or that make others happy. All for their own sake.

really, God doesn’t need me, my worship, my focus every minute of every day. what a silly, obnoxious need-for-attention God that would be.

and really, i don’t need God every minute of every day. i’m not a baby bird who needs food brought to her and put in her mouth or else she’ll die. who can barely move her wings. I’m not a 5-year old who has to hold a parent’s hand.

i’m an eagle soaring in the sunset sky. i’m wonder woman, saying ‘Hera, help me’ when plunging fist first through the rock mountain. (except it’s ‘God, help me’).

but i decided to be airborne myself (& learn the skills for it). [& metaphorically-speaking, of course]

How are the SBC and these events related to Converge?

Lowlandseer,

And you get the gist of things here. Looks like Geoff didn’t fit the Mohler mould and was trying to build something better.

https://baptistnews.com/article/al-mohlers-pastor-recommended-as-new-namb-president/#.XHHgoRqnyhA

dee,

How can we help you celebrate 10 years of blogging, Dee?

Which is *awesome*!

The archives of reports you and Deb have created over the years has been a crucial resource for researching and re-bringing the light into the same darkness that attempts to repeat and replicate itself.

dee,

I appreciate this information as well.

Robert,

About 4 years ago, my sister-in-law was driving home from work. She was near her home in her neighborhood traveling under the speed limit when a 9-year-old girl on a skateboard suddenly came out into the street. The girl was hit by my sister-in-law. The girl died about 4 hours later. The police investigated and determined that there was no way my sister-in-law could have avoided the girl. No tickets were issued and no charges were filed. My sister-in-law was devastated by the accident and suffered severe psychological problems from which she has yet to fully recover.

I read the linked article and as far as we know now, Coach Boeheim’s accident was similar in nature to my sister-in-law’s as no tickets were issued or charges filed. The article stated that Boeheim was “devastated”. The standing ovation at the Carrier Dome Saturday in support of Boeheim was appropriate since, as far as we know, he did nothing wrong.

Robert, can you not see the difference between Boeheim’s ovation and the ones supporting pastors that DID do something wrong, or are you just trolling? Did you read your own linked article?

Ken P.: supporting pastors that DID do something wrong

“Ephraim has attached himself to idols …” (Hosea 4:17)

Mark R: His response? “The original text of John 3:16 doesn’t say ‘whosoever’.”
Never mind that EVERY reliable translation says “whosoever” or some form of it (even the JW’s “translation” says “everyone”).

This is a pretty interesting read on that subject:

http://israelitewatchmen.com/Emahiser/John%203-16-%20What%20it%20Says%20and%20What%20it%20Doesn-t.pdf

ishy: This is a pretty interesting read on that subject:

http://israelitewatchmen.com/Emahiser/John%203-16-%20What%20it%20Says%20and%20What%20it%20Doesn-t.pdf

It is interesting but I’m not a universalist for the record. It says “whosoever believes” (or believeth for us who grew up on the KJV). So of course if someone doesn’t believe they’re not part of the whosoever. I was shocked that the Calvinist tried to argue that “whosoever” wasn’t part of the text.

Mark R:

And most of those “leaders” don’t sell through LifeWay, you have to go to their megachurch bookstores instead (Chandler is the only major exception).

Bigger slice if profits going through their own bookstores.

Ken P.,

I guess I was just trolling. I post links to stuff I haven’t read. (Sarcasm)

How do you think the family felt with Coach getting an ovation and their family suffering loss? Good timing? I don’t think so, even if he did nothing wrong. People were clapping because coaches don’t do anything wrong (think Penn State), not because people though he needed their support. I’m sorry for your family’s experience, but I did read the article and I still feel the same way I felt. It’s pretty assanine to suggest I didn’t even read (or watch the video) the article I posted. But doesn’t matter. It’s okay.

Robert: How do you think the family felt with Coach getting an ovation and their family suffering loss?

I don’t know how the Jimenez family felt, but I can tell you what happened with my sister-in law. Immediately after the police were done with their crash investigation, My sister-in-law’s immediate family went to the hospital to express her sorrow to the little girl’s family. Just after they arrived, the girl died. Shortly after that, she met with the girl’s parents and tearfully apologized. The girl’s family embraced her and told her that they knew it was not her fault and there was nothing she could have done (the girl’s family was Christian). I thought the family’s reaction was incredible powerful and a model of what Christians should do.

“People were clapping because coaches don’t do anything wrong (think Penn State), not because people though he needed their support.”

How do you know this? Is it not possible that the crowd was clapping because they knew that Coach Boeheim was in pain?

I thought that you may not have read the article because I don’t understand your thought process in coming to the conclusion you did. I also did not appreciate your suggesting that questioning your reading of the article was “asinine”. I believed that my thinking was perfectly logical, but it doesn’t matter, It’s okay.

elastigirl: i’m an eagle soaring in the sunset sky. i’m wonder woman, saying ‘Hera, help me’ when plunging fist first through the rock mountain. (except it’s ‘God, help me’).

Great visual for the human spirit! (as described in Psalm 8)
It’s something to be celebrated, not suppressed and condemned.

Clay Crouch,

Who?

dee,

“But last summer, on a whim, I bought a small jar of Folgers instant. I was transported back to those days. ”
+++++++++++++++

did you do the whole ritual? unscrew the lid with spoon in hand, then pop the paper with just the right jab, then a few lingering moments as the nostalgic coffee smell is released…

Muff Potter,

It’s more a case of “we love Him because He first loved us” and because of the cost of that love, our response should be complete and wholehearted. God does, after all, inhabit the praises of Israel.

Ken P.: the crowd was clapping

Sports crowds always clap to show respectful support. When a wincing youth basketball player limps off the court, the crowd claps. When an NFL star is driven away on an injury cart, the crowd claps.

It does not mean hooray.

Everybody knows this.

It is unseemly and exploitative to pretend or insist otherwise.

Lowlandseer,

Or, as it says in Q104 of the WCF Larger Catechism

Q. 104. What are the duties required in the first commandment?

A. The duties required in the first commandment are, the knowing and acknowledging of God to be the only true God, and our God; and to worship and glorify him accordingly, by thinking, meditating, remembering, highly esteeming, honouring, adoring, choosing, loving, desiring, fearing of him; believing him; trusting hoping, delighting, rejoicing in him; being zealous for him; calling upon him, giving all praise and thanks, and yielding all obedience and submission to him with the whole man; being careful in all things to please him, and sorrowful when in any thing he is offended; and walking humbly with him.

Clay Crouch,

I asked a question. You take it as a yes. I don’t know who you’re talking about. Pretty ridiculous.

My own perspective watching what happened on the blog is …. groupthink…. you all have to agree with each other all the time … and you aren’t much different, if at all, from the reformed crowd you all always compitch about.

Robert: Example of standing ovation for not the victim….</blockquote
To make these comparable would require, among other things:
– the coach seeking a job that would give him ample opportunity to run over pedestrians
– the coach specifically grooming certain pedestrians to walk in places where he could purposely run over them
– the coach making it a hit and run rather than cooperating with the police
– the coach's colleagues all making excuses for him while blaming the victim, and demanding biblical evidence for the crime
– the coach making no apology until there was no way to avoid it, which would be followed by "a season" of some kind of reflection
– etc.

No, there is no comparison, only contrast.

Robert,

Take your own advice, and a chill pill.

Robert,

If you’re not senecagriggs, and I’m not convinced, then you are his doppelgänger. That’s not a compliment.

Clay Crouch,

I don’t think “Robert” has the same style as seneca. Seneca certainly comments from a certain POV, but he doesn’t use the level of gratuitous insolence that “Robert” has.

Clay Crouch,

I must admit, I’ve never been to internet monk. It may be wonderful for all I know, but I don’t have enough self-discipline to be a regular on more than one blog/community – I’d never do anything else!

Robert: My own perspective watching what happened on the blog is …. groupthink…. you all have to agree with each other all the time … and you aren’t much different, if at all, from the reformed crowd you all always compitch about.

Oh, I don’t know. Sure, the fact that many of us have suffered from spiritual or other abuse – frequently, but not always, in a Reformed Church – does sort of give us a common slant. But I know darn well that many things I post many will disagree with. I hesitate to push ‘Post’, thinking, ‘I’m going to get clobbered’. But you know what, it doesn’t happen. Disagreed with, sometimes strongly? Sure. But that’s the way it should be.

I see great variance in political (yeah, it sneaks in sometimes), social, and theological viewpoints here, among other things. I appreciate the snarky folk, the gentle peacemakers, and everything in between. The common bond, it seems to me, is a rejection of authoritarianism, abusiveness and a lack of respect for others.

Max,

When I first ‘escaped’, wounded and bleeding, I thought I had gone through some horrible, once-in-a-lifetime situation. Then, over the years, I started hearing story after story that sounded just like mine. I am sure that to the loyal insiders I seem like a condescending troublemaker. I honestly just want to warn those who haven’t seen what so many have of what is frequently going on in these strict, authoritarian, elder-ruled congregations. You may not understand unless you ask the ‘wrong’ question.

I understand; I worshiped and served faithfully for over a decade, pushing aside any niggling doubts. Most would say that our family was the bedrock of the church. We were the longest lasting family, having been there when it was a tiny, new plant, there to set up chairs, clean bathrooms, help people move, take the phone calls for help, etc.. One of the hardest things I have ever done was to take a hard, honest look at all that had gone on over the years and sadly admit that more people were wounded than helped.

I would never in a million years have imagined myself where I am today.