As #T4G18 Gets Under Way, Here Is Some Historical Info. Involving Mahaney and SGM/SGC

“I want the experience of the conference to be the deep edification of pastors through preaching, singing, praying, conversation, laughter, food, and buying as many books as one’s credit card allows, all for the glory of God.”

C.J. Mahaney

“Brother on behalf of all over-educated preachers (and especially myself), I want to thank God publicly for your Bunyan-like skill at preaching so as to touch the heart.”

Mark Dever (T4G 2006)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KFCYUMCenter.jpgKFC Yum! Center

Today the seats pictured above filled with 12,000 true believers who have flocked to the KFC Yum! Center in Louisville for the bi-annual Together for the Gospel conference. It’s the seventh such gathering, with the first one taking place back in 2006. The inaugural event was held in a large banquet room at the Galt House Hotel in Louisville. Some estimate the number of attendees at T4G 2006 was around 2,000. Check out these photos from that first event.

It has been interesting to watch as the T4G crowd has grown by almost 2,000 every two years. To entice seminary students to attend, course credit is offered. This year two seminaries – Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary – are offering course credit to those who qualify. We seem to recall that Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary offered course credit at past T4G events, but SEBTS was not included on the website this time. (Now I can’t seem to find the course credit info for SBTS and MBTS students on the T4G website, but they were definitely there until very recently.)

In case you don’t know about the history of Together for the Gospel, here is some info. provided by the T4G organizers. It begins as follows: (see screen shot below).

********************

http://t4g.org/about/

********************

In case you’re wondering how those four pastors (Al Mohler, Mark Dever, Ligon Duncan, and C.J. Mahaney) developed such strong friendships, it was Dever who first sought out Mahaney. When he and an intern stopped by Covenant Life Church in 1996 (or so), Mahaney was not available. During a visit to Washington, D.C., C.J. stopped by Capitol Hill Baptist Church to meet Dever. As Ligon Duncan once revealed on the T4G website, it was Dever who introduced Mahaney to his good buddies Mohler and Duncan. (Dever, Mohler, and Duncan has been friends for decades, probably going back to their college days).

When Mahaney had been involved with Take and Give (TAG), he and Larry Tomczak taught a Bible study each week to thousands of students who gathered in D.C. Mahaney got used to being in front of large crowds and no doubt LOVED IT! As time went on, these two leaders established a church (called the Gathering of Believers, which would later become Covenant Life Church) as well as a church planting organization called People of Destiny, which was later shortened to PDI (eventually it became Sovereign Grace Ministries and then Sovereign Grace Churches).

Mahaney/PDI held an annual leadership conference for pastors, which probably began around the time that the Gathering of Believers was established. In 2001, Mark Dever spoke at this conference. It was held for the same length of time as T4G (approx. 2-1/2 days). (see screen shot below)

As you can see, Mahaney has been friends with John Piper and Wayne Grudem for a long time. Don’t miss what happened at the end of this tribute to Mahaney — the presentation of a trip to Hawaii to C.J. and his wife Carolyn. (Remember, there would be another tribute to Mahaney three years later when he passed the pastoral baton to Joshua Harris).

Mark Dever spoke a second time at this leadership conference. (see screen shot below)

We believe it was in 2002 that PDI became “Sovereign Grace Ministries”.

As an aside, it was not long after Mahaney and Dever became friends that PDI changed the name of its magazine to “Sovereign Grace”. (see screen shot below)

Here was the explanation for the name change (see screen shot below).

Around the time that the name changed to “Sovereign Grace Ministries”, SGM and Mahaney began making annual contributions to Southern Seminary, unbeknownst to the vast majority of folks in SGM. We wrote about it in The Mahaney Money Machine. Why in the world would this independent church-planting organization be giving money to a Southern Baptist seminary? I now believe it had something to do with the establishment of T4G a few years later.

In 2005 Mahaney spoke at the newly established Resolved Conference (and every subsequent one until it ended seven years later) as well as the “Together on a Mission” conference which took place ‘across the pond’. Early in our blogging, we shared some ideas about Mahaney’s involvement in this conference – Together on a Mission or Together for the Gospel?

So in 2006 Together for the Gospel was launched by the Fab Four (Mahaney, Mohler, Dever, and Duncan).  Here are Mahaney and Dever ‘back in the day’.

A few weeks after the very first T4G, Mark Dever wrote this message to C.J.

It must have been difficult for Dever and gang to go forward with T4G 2014 without their buddy C.J., who withdrew because of a class action lawsuit that named him and others. Yet, Mahaney was there rubbing elbows with them in the front row.

Two years later Mahaney spoke at T4G 2016. Al Mohler demonstrated an extreme lack of judgment in how he introduced C.J. Dee wrote an excellent post about it – Al Mohler Extolls CJ Mahaney at T4G While Joking at the Expense of SGM Victims. Does Money Play a Role in the Relationship?

Mahaney had planned to speak at this year’s T4G. Then Rachael Denhollander happened… She began calling out Sovereign Grace Churches (formerly Sovereign Grace Ministries – yet another name change!) and requesting that they conduct an independent investigation.

In short order, Mahaney announced that he would not be speaking at this year’s T4G. You can read his statement here (we featured it on our blog just in case it disappears).

A month ago I wrote a follow-up post – Mahaney Withdraws from T4G Line-Up and Rachael Denhollander Responds.

Even though C.J. Mahaney will not be in the speaker line-up, Sovereign Grace Churches still has a presence at this year’s T4G. The three men pictured below will be promoting their church-planting network to the 12,000 attendees. (see screen shot below)

http://t4g.org/t4g18/#plenaryAs we wrap up this post, we have some questions…

  • Will C.J. Mahaney be in attendance at T4G (as he was in 2014)?
  • What happens to all the CA$H collected from 12,000 attendees – entrance fees as well as book sales?
  • Will Mahaney be returning to T4G in 2020?

No doubt there are other questions we could ask. What questions do you have regarding Together for the Gospel?


Comments

As #T4G18 Gets Under Way, Here Is Some Historical Info. Involving Mahaney and SGM/SGC — 55 Comments

  1. Together 4 a payday! No gurlz allowed…ok maybe a few gurlz…say 1 in 5….but they got to keep quiet….or heads will be shaved.

  2. An interesting article that mentions Mark Dever’s mentor Roy Clements having pursued a Reformed-Charismatic rapprochement in the UK in the 1990s (Dever served as Clements’ assistant pastor at Eden Chapel while he studied at Cambridge in the early 1990s):

    http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/cr-11309133345-1.PDF

    p. 10 “Eden Baptist Church in Cambridge. It was for many years the place where Roy Clements exercise his very influential ministry prior to his personal and very sad demise. We return to his impact in a moment as his cautious acceptance/ambivalence to the charismatic movement has perhaps had an influence on younger people, some of whom are now embarking upon their first or second pastorates.”

    p. 14 We mentioned Roy Clements a moment ago. We must mention him again. He has influenced many people into adopting a more agnostic position towards the charismatic movement. Although having the ability to demolish the biblical credentials of charismatic phenomena, he acted more to secure a co-operative attitude…In 1996 he was to be found speaking at the Evangelical Alliance National Assembly advocating a working together of reformed and charismatic. This befriending aimed to harness the energy of the visionaries and young people that the charismatic movement seemed to have in abundance while weaning it off its excesses. He argued the reformed churches needed the power and life to be found in the charismatic churches while they in turn needed the solid bible teaching that the reformed church could offer.”

    “One imagines he might have been offering himself as a figure who could facilitate this process. We will never know as he abandoned the ministry a little afterwards. But his theme of rapprochement has struck a chord. Many sections of the evangelical world that would identify with the appellation ‘reformed’ are not to be found opposing the charismatic movement…. Organisations like UCCF, the FIEC, and New Word Alive are asking men like Terry Virgo, much to his surprise, to come and teach them. Having previously felt he had been accorded pariah status by them, he now finds them beating a path to his door, eager for instruction.”

  3. I do wonder about the vast media coverage of Denhollander and her calling out SGM, her husband as a student at Doctoral student at SBTS and Mahaney being sidelined again at T4G.

    Is Mohler trying to use the triangulation strategy? There is something more than money when it comes to covering for Mahaney. My guess is, at this point, Mahaney is more dependent on Mohler and the boys for his current streams of income.

  4. I don’t know if it has been covered here before, but learning that C.J. Mahaney basically paid for the ESV was a real Good Night ™ moment for me. All the New Calvinist Bros are way too intertwined.

  5. @ Jerome:

    That is highly interesting. I have wondered about Mahaney and Macarthur and how the twain could sit lined up in the same row of folding chairs. Not to mention the Mohler/Mahaney relationship. The Dever link with experience concerning the charismatic movement is fascinating. It looks rather like sovereign nations being buddies for a stipulated purpose when they really have different national interests.

    Well, hey, don’t let principle stand in the way when somebody waves dollars in your face in the religion business.

  6. @ Ricco:
    Interesting comment… Where did you read about this?

    Two years ago we discussed the Mahaney/SGM – Wayne Grudem $$$ connection.

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/02/19/wayne-grudem-staunch-supporter-of-cj-mahaney-received-money-from-sovereign-grace-ministries/

    Back in 2003 Grudem published a book entitled Business for the Glory of God. In the preface, Grudem wrote the following:

    https://www.amazon.com/Business-Glory-God-Teaching-Goodness/dp/1581345178#reader_1581345178

    “And I wish to thank Sovereign Grace Ministries, a group of churches that has encouraged me and supported me with funds for additional research assistance in this larger research project.”

    Really makes me wonder what else SGM contributions funded. We’re pretty sure the average SGMer had no idea how their contributions were being used.

  7. @ Ricco:
    On a related note, did you know that Jeff Purswell, who heads up SGC’s Pastors College, was Wayne Grudem’s teaching assistant at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School?

    Here is what Purswell shares in his bio:

    http://www.sgclouisville.org/jeff-purswell-resources

    Jeff is the editor of Bible Doctrine, an abridgment of Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology, and contributed a chapter to Worldliness: Resisting the Seduction of a Fallen World. In addition, he serves on the board of The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.

    Jeff is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in New Testament Studies from The Catholic University of America. He is a summa cum laude graduate of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois (M.Div., 1998), where he taught Greek as a teaching fellow in the New Testament department and worked as a teaching assistant in systematic theology for Wayne Grudem. Jeff’s pre-ministry experience combines a degree in Economics and English Literature with a decade in the corporate banking world.

    So many interconnections…

  8. From their website: Sponsored by Lifeway and Crossway? Book companies? Sales?
    It was recommended to max out credit cards buying books. Maybe that’s the underlying truth.

  9. T4G advertised February prices as $249 (full) o $119(student / international). If all the 12000 guests paid full price, they would rake in just under 3 million dollars, or discount price a total of 1.4 million dollars. The March prices were higher again. Add to that the book deals, hotel deals, food deals and you can see just how profitable this one event is for them.

  10. You should include the fact that Grudem holds to a non-orthodox Trinitarian views. I’m assuming that if Grudem is so heavily featured at T4G, then T4G is comfortable with non-orthodox views as well.
    (However, I realize that not all of the Wartburg Watch readers hold to the ancient creeds…)

  11. T4G…Dever’s talk yesterday. With all his emphasis on expositional preaching, he seems to exempt himself in his, “preaching” on the message of holiness. (Wonder what else Dever is preaching about and exempting himself from?) He didn’t stay with the text, nor the context. Was not a proclamation of the gospel in any sense. It was a topical lecture, pushing his practices to the audience (discipline, discipline, and more discipline, “…if you didn’t offer someone a ride to church, you are not a christian,” more discipline, etc., etc., etc. So, now go and copy me and implement all this authoritarianism in your churches…just don’t call it that – call it authority instead and you’ll be fine…discipline, discipline, more discipline, but be sure to call it love and make people sign a contract to agree to the performance of the love and lovingly welcoming the discipline at the hands of the non-authoritarian, authority that will excommunicate you if you look sideways when we think you should be looking forward…)

    …oh and by the way, I’ve published more than a few books that you can buy to help you copy me, because after all, I’m the one who is God’s spokesperson for this time to the churches. Just listen to me and apply my methods and all will go well for you and your cult development, oh, I mean congregations, here and in the hereafter.

    A bit snarky, but this just turns my stomach. I’m truly praying that attendees will have discerning hearts and minds that are hearing this stuff. God help us.

  12. Lydia wrote:

    the boys

    Every social entity has groups that wield power: i.e., Mean Girls in a high school, Good Ole Boys in local government or local law.

    What makes Christians different is the Source is God Himself, today the presence, power, fruit, and gifts (no money transferred) of the Holy Spirit with lives modeled after Jesus.

    If it doesn’t look like Jesus, it’s not.

  13. JYJames wrote:

    From their website: Sponsored by Lifeway and Crossway? Book companies? Sales?
    It was recommended to max out credit cards buying books. Maybe that’s the underlying truth.

    Allow me to speculate… Those pastors in attendance will probably be maxing out either

    – the church credit card or,

    – their personal credit card (and getting reimbursed from the church coffers)

    I also assume their congregations are paying all related expenses (conference fee, travel, lodging, food, etc.)

  14. Deb wrote:

    their congregations are paying all related expenses

    Another way to stick it to the little guy (working to support their family, belonging by faith to their local church).

    Serfdom and Feudalism in the Kingdom (that is definitely not God’s).

    For the con-men leadership that runs this gig: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.” Matt. 23:27.

  15. ishy wrote:

    Lowlandseer wrote:

    Course credit for SBTS

    http://www.sbts.edu/t4g/

    Yeah, I suspected earlier that they were going to do that to fill out the numbers of the conference. I got extra credit for going to one SBC convention and took a class at another for a whole class credit.

    IMO these students are being brainwashed. I would not want any of them as my pastor.

  16. @ Deb:
    I don’t remember exactly where I read it. I’ll have to dig later when I have more time. I specifically remember that SGM paid for Grudem’s sabbatical so he could work on the ESV.

  17. @ drJ:
    I think most people here could affirm the Nicene Creed.

    You are absolutely right that many of us have big issues with ESS. I don’t like throwing the h-word around, but in my opinion it is borderline heretical

  18. @ Jerome:
    Interesting …… with all that the evangelical world has to say about homosexuals like Mark Dever’s “mentor”, Roy Clements turned out to be a homosexual.

  19. Ricco wrote:

    I don’t know if it has been covered here before, but learning that C.J. Mahaney basically paid for the ESV was a real Good Night ™ moment for me. All the New Calvinist Bros are way too intertwined.

    The marketing strategy and hype on the ESV was not only disingenuous but massive. It started to sound like a variation of the “Little Red Book” collective group think strategy. I have never seen a translation hyped to that level. It was considered the legitimate bible for the serious Christians. And it was marketed as a “literal” translation!! LOL. People believed it.

  20. Jack wrote:

    Together 4 a payday! No gurlz allowed

    Reading on Twitter, there is apparently some sort of app for the ‘pastors’ to chit chat in private. Would be interesting to see I’m sure.

  21. Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:

    Interesting …… with all that the evangelical world has to say about homosexuals like Mark Dever’s “mentor”, Roy Clements turned out to be a homosexual.

    What?!

  22. Ricco wrote:

    I don’t know if it has been covered here before, but learning that C.J. Mahaney basically paid for the ESV was a real Good Night ™ moment for me. All the New Calvinist Bros are way too intertwined.

    Well that is interesting. It makes more sense than a measly 10k buying Dever. I doubt these guys come *that* cheap.
    Lydia wrote:

    @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar):

    Did I read it right that the mentor left ministry?

    Interesting.

  23. I’m bringing this up again on this thread because it needs repeating…there is a reason that Dever has on staff SIX …oops…now SEVEN women counselors for the women at Capitol Hill Baptist. http://www.capitolhillbaptist.org/ministries/care-counseling/ Why would the women of a medium size church that MIGHT have 250 women members, need SEVEN women counselors?!

    Methinks something is awry. He has a disdain for and a low view of women (that are not in the box he wants them in) and high view of himself, his opinions, and his self-imposed value, and that will come out in his personal behavior, sooner than later. (I.e., Roy Clements, Judge Pressler, Frank Page, etc., etc.)

  24. @ Deb:
    Weird. Not clear on why Carson feels like he was betrayed. I can understand a wife and children feeling that way.

  25. @ Deb:
    Wayne Grudem also attended Roy Clements’ church when he was on sabbatical as well.

    “One recent tragic example that I mention in the book is that of Roy Clements, who was pastor of Eden Baptist Church in Cambridge when we were there on sabbatical for one year. A few years ago Roy tragically left his wife for a homosexual relationship with another man. He now has a website in which he defends his actions using arguments from the Bible. I think it’s significant that he says that the very same arguments that are used to support evangelical feminism work just as well to support his view that committed homosexual relationships are acceptable for Christians.
    Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/adrianwarnock/2006/12/interview-wayne-grudem-part-four-ethical-trajectories-feminism-and-homosexuality/#dUpyhAzSzHXpb02q.99”

  26. Lydia wrote:

    @ Deb:
    Weird. Not clear on why Carson feels like he was betrayed. I can understand a wife and children feeling that way.

    It is strange, particularly as in response to some comments made by Mark Driscoll about the state of the church in the UK in 2012, he named two young leaders as examples of courage…”(3) As for young men with both courage and national reach: I suppose I’d start with Richard Cunningham, currently director of UCCF. He has preached fearlessly in most of the universities and colleges in the UK, and is training others to do so; he has been lampooned in the press, faced court cases over the UCCF stance on homosexuality, and attracted newspaper headlines. Then there’s Vaughan Roberts, rector of St Ebbe’s, Oxford, in constant demand for his Bible teaching around the country. I could name many more. In Scotland one thinks of men like Willie Philip (and he’s not the only one). Similar names could be mentioned in Wales and Northern Ireland.”
    Richard Cunningham, as he says, faced criticism for his stance on homosexuality. Vaughan Roberts, on the other hand, came out as having homosexual feelings (unrequited) and chooses to live a celibate life.
    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/reflections-on-the-church-in-great-britain/

  27. @ Lowlandseer:
    Willie Philip, also mentioned by Carson, was director of the Proclamation Trust in London before moving to the Tron Church in Glasgow in 2004. Vaughan Roberts is the current director.

  28. Lowlandseer wrote:

    I think it’s significant that he says that the very same arguments that are used to support evangelical feminism work just as well to support his view that committed homosexual relationships are acceptable for Christians.

    Women stay in your lane, otherwise we might have to treat gay people well.

    So tired of these arguments.

  29. Lydia wrote:

    @ Deb:
    Weird. Not clear on why Carson feels like he was betrayed. I can understand a wife and children feeling that way.

    That’s what I was thinking too. How was Carson betrayed??

  30. Augustine wrote:

    I’m bringing this up again on this thread because it needs repeating…there is a reason that Dever has on staff SIX …oops…now SEVEN women counselors for the women at Capitol Hill Baptist. http://www.capitolhillbaptist.org/ministries/care-counseling/ Why would the women of a medium size church that MIGHT have 250 women members, need SEVEN women counselors?!
    Methinks something is awry. He has a disdain for and a low view of women (that are not in the box he wants them in) and high view of himself, his opinions, and his self-imposed value, and that will come out in his personal behavior, sooner than later. (I.e., Roy Clements, Judge Pressler, Frank Page, etc., etc.)

    Just a thought …….. maybe too many of the little fillies and mares in Dever’s herd are starting to kick over the traces, so he’s recruited some well broken females to help get them in line!

  31. Bridget wrote:

    Lydia wrote:

    @ Deb:
    Weird. Not clear on why Carson feels like he was betrayed. I can understand a wife and children feeling that way.

    That’s what I was thinking too. How was Carson betrayed??

    Because he put way too much faith in a mere human? A wife basically has a contract or a covenant.

  32. Lowlandseer wrote:

    . I think it’s significant that he says that the very same arguments that are used to support evangelical feminism work just as well to support his view that committed homosexual relationships are acceptable for Christians.
    Read more at

    They have been using that argument for 30 years. But here is the logical trajectory to that argument.

    They believe homosexuality is a sin. I can understand that and I don’t fault them for it. They have freedom of conscience to believe that. And I don’t believe it was God’s intention, too. I just have a very different way to approach the issue. Basically it’s none of my business unless it is shoved down my throat to be.

    BUT being a woman is NOT a sin. See the problem?

    They take those two totally different issues and then map them to scripture.

    They are not the same arguments at all. But because someone people trust and like says it IS a viable argument–it becomes mainstream thinking in certain circles.

  33. Lydia wrote:

    They are not the same arguments at all.

    Yes! Being a woman is not a sin. Having agency is not a sin.

    All of their arguments tend to be regarding the process/way of reading scripture or the outcome (where women and LGBT people are treated well, accepted within church). It is pretty insane that to defend oneself against the alleged sin of being female one must also make arguments of whatever kind related to an entirely different topic.

    I think the reason these things go together is because they come from a place of ‘we love these people, how can we read scripture to love them better’. And that’s not a bad thing, it’s a check against great abuse. Whether the end result is right or wrong.

  34. *off topic*

    @ Jerome:

    I looked up Roy Clements on the Google because the language “personal and very sad demise” made me wonder what was going on. Well, Roy Clements isn’t dead. He just came out as gay.

    No matter what you think about LGBT persons, the use of the word “demise,” which usually indicates a death, was really an inappropriate use when the guy is very much alive.

    /*off topic* Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

  35. @ Muslin fka Deana Holmes:
    Goodness, did you read the postscript on his letter to John Stott?

    Final note: In early September 1999, my wife and a small number of Christian friends decided that the possibility of my “coming out” at some point in the future posed an unacceptable risk of scandal. As a damage-limitation exercise, a press release was therefore issued by the Evangelical Alliance in the UK, informing the secular media that I was gay.

    I am reading too much into this to see this as possibly the reason for his anger at his wife? I’m not sure if she was supposed to be keeping it quiet for him, or if he just didn’t like there being a press release.

  36. Lydia wrote:

    They believe homosexuality is a sin. I can understand that and I don’t fault them for it. They have freedom of conscience to believe that. And I don’t believe it was God’s intention, too. I just have a very different way to approach the issue. Basically it’s none of my business unless it is shoved down my throat to be.

    BUT being a woman is NOT a sin. See the problem?

    They take those two totally different issues and then map them to scripture.

    They are not the same arguments at all. But because someone people trust and like says it IS a viable argument–it becomes mainstream thinking in certain circles.

    That “mapping to scripture” is a real problem. I ran into it talking to a young pastor from the Midwest this afternoon. I think he had an issue with the idea that the Holy Spirit could tell someone (me) to stand outside with a sign. That’s not what his reading of scripture says. There were some other things as well. But the reality is I wouldn’t stand outside on a windy day, daring my sign to be ripped out of my hands if I wasn’t compelled to.

  37. @ Muslin fka Deana Holmes:
    The young Pastor has probably been taught that he is the holy spirit for his congregration. Not that dramatically, of course, but subtly over time. The indwelling holy spirit in individuals is a big threat to these young pastors. But I don’t think the Holy Spirit leads us as cookie cutter believers, either.

    It’s one of my biggest pet peeves because it keeps people from maturing. Sheesh! I have enough trouble without listening to those guys. You seem to have the patience of Job.

  38. drJ wrote:

    You should include the fact that Grudem holds to a non-orthodox Trinitarian views. I’m assuming that if Grudem is so heavily featured at T4G, then T4G is comfortable with non-orthodox views as well.

    Yes, I would guess that the great percentage of speakers and those in the audience of T4G are comps who hold to the unorthodox view of the Trinity where Christ Jesus is eternally subordinate to the Father. This view is espoused by CBMW (as I refer to it, the men are better than women club). In fact, their belief in complementarianism hinges totally on the ESS heresy. Kevin Giles, an Evangelical Anglican, has given a superb defense of the orthodox view of the Trinity and soundly set Grudem and company reeling. Nonetheless, CBMW seems to now be totally avoiding the issue and carrying on as if their unorthodox foundational doctrine is still sound.

    I have set my ESV version on the shelf and do my best to avoid using it. Several reasons for this, but I won’t go into it here.

    He is a great video where Kevin Giles addresses the orthodox view of the Trinity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0_mYvbgcKE

  39. okrapod wrote:

    I have wondered about Mahaney and Macarthur and how the twain could sit lined up in the same row of folding chairs.

    “Lig” exulting over the pair in a 2005 blog post:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20051214203610/http://www.reformation21.org:80/Reformation_21_Blog/Reformation_21_Blog/58/?vobId=617&pm=114

    C.J. MAHANEY AND JOHN MACARTHUR
    8/22/2005
    posted by Ligon Duncan

    “Yesterday, C.J. Mahaney preached the worship services at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. In my opinion, that is a sign of good things quietly astir in the evangelical and Reformed community today – new networks of friendship, kinship in the truth and cooperation in ministry…they’ve gotten to know one another (through mutual friends like Mark Dever). And John has seen that C.J. is a man of the book (you can be sure that John would never entrust his flock to someone in whom he did not have that confidence).”

    “Both these men are huge encouragements to me. C.J.’s infectious passion for Christ and zeal for the truth (the veritable personification of heat and light!), John’s sheer steadfastness and serious commitment to following the Word of God where ever it leads him…Thanks John and C.J. We love and appreciate you both!”

  40. ___

    “Journey To The Center Of The SGC Abuse, Perhaps?”

    hmmm…

    ♪♩♪♩ hum, hum, hum …“Once the religious, the restless and weary
    Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
    Came to Maryland to build a new church vision
    Far from the reaches of faux evangelicals and pope…

    But still from near and far to seek Jesus
    They came by thousands to court the songs of joy
    And Mahaney just patiently smiled as Tomczak mentored his man
    To be their spiritual and guiding light

    (so everyone thought)

    And once the ties with sanity had been broken
    Westward to Maryland in saddle and Vokeswagen they went…

    They babble’d about sovereignty, accountability, discipleship, sin, and handfuls of discipline
    But it was all just a ruse
    for the elephant in the room
    Turning a glistening eye and a future shiny head
    getting its victims in its path
    and biding its time…

    hmmm…

    It all started with a great sounding idea: a ‘Gathering Of Believers’, the ‘TAG’ line for ‘the Church of God organized’ ™ , —for His glory, around His APPOINTED leadership, under the banner of TRUTH to be a beacon of LIGHT to a SINFUL world.

    Whew!

    —-> But man is a sinful sinner and will not live virtuous without firm leadership, so he needs someone to hold him accountable to ‘The Fabulous Christian ideal’ ™.

    With smiles, sweet words, and love bombs, SELECT men insisted that they were uniquely QUALIFIED (then called SGM Apostles) to GOVERN, and the people in the pews (chairs) have a moral duty to SUBORDINATE. It is God’s will:

    Yep, the Bible tells us so.

    What really happened was purposeful and rooted in the evil outworking ideas of faux shepherd following and group accountability.

    But this grand idea most often ended with Christians grieving an experience that defied explanation with wounds that hurt like death and divorce combined.

    “Documented multi-generational sexual deviancy and predatorily practices were covered-up and concealed in the POD/PDI/SGM/SGC Maryland 501c)3 religious organization for some thirty years. National media exposure came in 2011. The court case in 2012. Much of the legal and investigative efforts failed to properly combat this monstrous ‘501(c)3 religious blight’ in the state of Maryland; failed to bring the proper justice, and failed to bring relief and successful remody. These harmful practices and the environment that created them, live to harm another day. Furthermore national cleric 501(c)3 religious leaders continue abuse and hide behind cleric/penitent, tax and separation of church and state laws, to support those who refuse(d) to take these deviant individuals and those that harbor them and present them to the proper authorities. Therein lies the rub. These national religious men have place the propagation of their highly profitable theological religious system know as New Calvinism above and beyond the safety of our children. Aparrently much more public exposure is required to IDENTIFY groups, men, and 501(c)3 establishments that continue to PRACTICE these harmful behaviors. We must raise kind folk willing to promote concerted efforts that will result in bringing those involved to justice…”

    http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/transcripts/
    http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/the-stories/
    https://www.scribd.com/user/86813507/sgmwikileaks
    http://www.thefullwiki.org/Sovereign_Grace_Ministries

    Will the church be unbroken?

    For those who have suffered under the hand of SGM/SGC Christian leadership run amok, in silence, unable to make your case, or understand how or why it happened: You are not crazy. You are not alone. What happened to you was purposeful and rooted in evil ideas of SGM/SGC 501(c)3 faux religious shepherd fallowing and accountability.

    Please tell your story today!

    (You’ll be glad you did)

    ATB

    Sòpwith

    Public awareness:
    https://youtu.be/NeY_7O5BvD4
    https://youtu.be/v4aekQwKIKs

    Exit music:
    https://youtu.be/rGEIMCWob3U
    https://youtu.be/SHhrZgojY1Q
    https://youtu.be/ZTLNNLBKPaA

    🙂

    – –

  41. Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:

    @ Jerome:
    Interesting …… with all that the evangelical world has to say about homosexuals like Mark Dever’s “mentor”, Roy Clements turned out to be a homosexual.

    And the hypocrisy of it is shown in the contrast. Clements was very quickly cut off from the evangelical establishment. His boks were removed and his speaking engagements cancelled. Mahaney has received preferential treatment! He is still welcome to preach and his books are still being sold.

  42. @ Bridget:
    I think Carson felt betrayed in the sense that a trusted Christian leader – and a Reformed one at that – should turn out to be a phoney all along. A Judas moment. When our Lord told the apostles that one of them would betray Him, none of them looked at Judas. Not Judas, more likely me! Is it I? Clements apostacy was a big shock to the Reformed community in the UK.

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