Comments

Andy Savage Resigns From Highpoint Church: A Precedent Has Been Set — 95 Comments

  1. The statement from Highpoint is sure different from that first Sunday service when it all went public… and all the bloggers supporting Andy S….

  2. In his resignation, he’s still clinging to the narrative that it was “relationship” and not a form of sexual coercion:

    “As I’ve reflected during my leave of absence, I have come to see that many wrongs occurred in 1998. The first was my inappropriate relationship with Jules, which was not only immoral, but meets the definition of abuse of power since I was her youth pastor; therefore, when our relationship became physical, there could be no claim of mutual consent. Another wrong was the failure to follow due process afterward; Jules deserved, and did not get, a full investigation and proper response 20 years ago.” (emphasis added)

  3. “Our prayers are with Andy, Amanda, and their boys as they enter this new season.”

    Aaargh… new season lingo

  4. Jeffrey Chalmers wrote:

    The statement from Highpoint is sure different from that first Sunday service when it all went public

    Very interesting, although I’m inclined to see this all as ‘we weren’t able to swing the pr in our favor so we gave up’.

    Andy’s statement is interesting too. You can tell he’s trying to say the right things…don’t know if he believes them or not.

  5. AMEN to his resignation!!

    But I feel like some of his resignation letter got cut off — it’s missing this vital piece somehow:

    “When Jules confronted me on my past behavior through an email, I did not act in the spirit of David deeply repenting after Nathaniel the prophet confronted him. Instead, I ignored her entirely and ardently wished she would disappear or spontaneously drop dead. I did not repent, nor did I even address her or acknowledge her pain until it became a full-scale out-ing by the media. I clearly cannot be trusted to take responsibility for my actions, nor do I have compassion for any victims of my abuse, unless I am publicly forced to. For these reasons, I am stepping down from ministry entirely. God help me.”

  6. @ drstevej:
    I am suspicious of what his his new *season* will bring. See my Friday post. Chris Conlee was not happy with it and even addressed it on Sunday.

  7. Will his new season involve returning to Texas, waiving his statute of limitations defense, pleading guilty?

  8. refugee wrote:

    In his resignation, he’s still clinging to the narrative that it was “relationship” and not a form of sexual coercion:

    “As I’ve reflected during my leave of absence, I have come to see that many wrongs occurred in 1998. The first was my inappropriate relationship with Jules, which was not only immoral, but meets the definition of abuse of power since I was her youth pastor; therefore, when our relationship became physical, there could be no claim of mutual consent. Another wrong was the failure to follow due process afterward; Jules deserved, and did not get, a full investigation and proper response 20 years ago.” (emphasis added)

    I agree. More minimising. He is still a snake. I said in January Conlee would throw Andy under the bus. He did. But Conlee is culpable. He knew all about Andy’s past and stood by his guy, making Jules look bad. This was his way of saving his own backside. It’s the best that can be expected for Jules. But it still disgusts me.

  9. dee wrote:

    @ drstevej:
    I am suspicious of what his his new *season* will bring. See my Friday post. Chris Conlee was not happy with it and even addressed it on Sunday.

    I’m suspicious that some church or ministry will hire him in the near future. Get a job, Andy, and get out of ministry permanently.

  10. Still, no earnest, heartfelt apology to Jules ……. It’s still all about Andy, poor Andy.
    No more paid vacay.
    No more bodyguards.
    But, “Thy will be done”!!! Yahoooooo!

    Maybe Pete Wilson can get Andy a job with A Group.

  11. Uppity Bimbo wrote:

    I’m suspicious that some church or ministry will hire him in the near future.

    Or he’ll Plant his own Church, like Driscoll and/or Jimmy Swaggart.

  12. drstevej wrote:

    “Our prayers are with Andy, Amanda, and their boys as they enter this new season.”

    Aaargh… new season lingo

    Wait until the heat blows over, everyone forgets, and It’s the Comeback Trail!

  13. refugee wrote:

    In his resignation, he’s still clinging to the narrative that it was “relationship” and not a form of sexual coercion:

    Just like in Proverbs, he wipes his mouth and says “I Have Not Sinned”.

  14. drstevej wrote:

    “Our prayers are with Andy, Amanda, and their boys as they enter this new season.”

    Aaargh… new season lingo

    “New season” – it makes me wonder if he is going to re-emerge in ministry again and write a book. Kind of like Tullian Tchivijian. Sure wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Hard work at a job outside “ministry” is not something these guys like Savage are interested in.

  15. I want to hear from Andy Savage that it was no body else’s fault but his own and that the Holy Spirit is working him through all this repentance…. so far all’s I read from him is , my past caught up with me, it was leaderships fault that it was not handled right and it was a relationship …. really….. oh, by the way, I am just a follower and can’t hear from or act on what God is convicting me about on my own. I need someone in church leadership to direct me to do right things.

  16. Glad there’s been some measure of justice for Jules, but anytime these men are caught it’s always the “Let’s sweep it under the rug” game which, if unsuccessful, results in “Throw someone under the bus”. Neither constitute true repentance. We can only pray and continue to hold the standard high for abuse.

  17. I’m glad Jules is seeing a bit of vindication after lo these twenty long years.

    I’m disgusted with Savage STILL clinging to the false narrative about being in a “relationship” with Jules, which I think is meant to persuade the public, still, that she is complicit in what he did to her.

    Conlee needs to be held accountable for showing lack of discernment, spiritual insight and disturbing leadership in the hiring Savage even knowing what transpired, for allowing or orchestrating the standing ovation and the following worship that cried out, “you are worthy, Andy!”

  18. $take holders were not happy. They are the ones that keep the ship afloat in TX, TN, etc. ‘Bout time they realize what their $$$ is paying for. Thanks Jules, Rachel, Dee, Deb, and Media for bringing this to light and taking the pushback but standing tall. You all saved the day, saved future victims.

  19. It seems to me that only future behavior will indicate genuine sorrow or not. if he goes back into ministry…this is just CYA.

  20. refugee wrote:

    In his resignation, he’s still clinging to the narrative that it was “relationship” and not a form of sexual coercion:
    “As I’ve reflected during my leave of absence, I have come to see that many wrongs occurred in 1998. The first was my inappropriate relationship with Jules, which was not only immoral, but meets the definition of abuse of power since I was her youth pastor; therefore, when our relationship became physical, there could be no claim of mutual consent. Another wrong was the failure to follow due process afterward; Jules deserved, and did not get, a full investigation and proper response 20 years ago.” (emphasis added)

    And the other parsings, such as “meets the definition of abuse of power”. This one looks to be loaded with euphemistic tap dancing. In other words, it meets a definition of something — though some including himself might not actually think that is truly something. And just as bad, he admits to “abuse of power” — which while unbiblical for pastors etc. sounds quite white-collar — rather than “abuse” of a person.

    Reminds me of the close of the Firm (movie version), where Ed Harris’ law enforcement character wonders how they’ll ever take down all the bad guys, who are being busted for over billing one legal invoices. Cruise replied: “One at a time.”

    They were dealing with mobsters on that one, but we’re dealing with professed Christians and professed leaders here. Even if there are bad actors, it is incumbent upon the powers that be going forward to eschew groupthink and other priorities ($$$, etc.). Instead, oversight and due diligence needs to pierce the “we’re all nice guys here” veneer, which means you have the hard conversations and possibly risk a hit to the numbers for a season.

  21. Darlene wrote:

    drstevej wrote:
    “Our prayers are with Andy, Amanda, and their boys as they enter this new season.”
    Aaargh… new season lingo
    “New season” – it makes me wonder if he is going to re-emerge in ministry again and write a book. Kind of like Tullian Tchivijian. Sure wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Hard work at a job outside “ministry” is not something these guys like Savage are interested in.

    Or outside of leadership (being “above reproach” per the Scriptures notwithstanding), as being in servant ministry would be quite Biblical but might not pay the bills quite as readily.

  22. It’s a cover up. They’re scrambling to get the spotlight off their operation so they can continue down the road to prophecy or whatever they’re up to next.

    Andy will have a season to let this die down and return restored or renewed or re-Jesused.

    “Relationship”? No, there was no relationship on that dark road and that statement says it all. This is not a misunderstanding between two consenting adults!

    Can’t forget either how many of his defenders wound on this forum, including the clown who couldn’t spell “crickets”.

    Somethings wrong with Highpoint’s culture and they don’t want the rest of the world to see.

  23. Sometimes, Yiddish has a word that conveys in one fell swoop, what English cannot.

    Mishegas.

    Utter total nonsense with a touch of crazy lunacy.

    After all that has transpired in the past couple of months, with the NYT (the freaking NEW YORK TIMES!!!!!) picking up the story, Andy and Chris think that pulling this stunt in this manner would put this to rest once and for all times????

    A mutual relationship??? Really???? That would have included, let’s say for argument’s sake, going out for ice cream, sneaking an arm around her shoulder, snuggling her ear, a little pecking and kissy face …. not freaking unzipping his pants and demanding what he did!

    And Conlee???? Not stopping the worship girl from worshipping Andy was amongst the most heretical things I’ve witnessed, and I’ve been around …. Island Pond, anyone?

    No. Andy quitting was the least of what we expect. There are still greater things that we hope for. I guess we are a hard bunch to please.

  24. New Season.

    Andy’s Ministry.

    Mistakes.

    After all of this he’s still talking mistakes.

    After all of this Highpoint is still taking “Andy’s Ministry.”

    They’re still talking New Season.

    Savage may be done at Highpoint, but Highpoint is apparently not done being in denial.

  25. Mercy wrote:

    But Conlee is culpable. He knew all about Andy’s past and stood by his guy, making Jules look bad. This was his way of saving his own backside. It’s the best that can be expected for Jules. But it still disgusts me.

    Culpable, yes….and hypocritical.

  26. Remnant wrote:

    Sometimes, Yiddish has a word that conveys in one fell swoop, what English cannot.

    Mishegas.

    Utter total nonsense with a touch of crazy lunacy.

    After all that has transpired in the past couple of months, with the NYT (the freaking NEW YORK TIMES!!!!!) picking up the story, Andy and Chris think that pulling this stunt in this manner would put this to rest once and for all times????

    A mutual relationship??? Really???? That would have included, let’s say for argument’s sake, going out for ice cream, sneaking an arm around her shoulder, snuggling her ear, a little pecking and kissy face …. not freaking unzipping his pants and demanding what he did!

    And Conlee???? Not stopping the worship girl from worshipping Andy was amongst the most heretical things I’ve witnessed, and I’ve been around …. Island Pond, anyone?

    No. Andy quitting was the least of what we expect. There are still greater things that we hope for. I guess we are a hard bunch to please.

    Hah.. it’s also Hebrew (meshuga)..

    And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad (מְשֻׁגָּעִים֙) in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.- 1 Sam 21:13

  27. Beth74 wrote:

    feel like some of his resignation letter got cut off — it’s missing this vital piece somehow:

    “When Jules confronted me on my past behavior through an email, I did not act in the spirit of David deeply repenting after Nathaniel the prophet confronted him. Instead, I ignored her entirely and ardently wished she would disappear or spontaneously drop dead. I did not repent, nor did I even address her or acknowledge her pain until it became a full-scale out-ing by the media. I clearly cannot be trusted to take responsibility for my actions, nor do I have compassion for any victims of my abuse, unless I am publicly forced to. For these reasons, I am stepping down from ministry entirely. God help me.”

    Spot on, Beth!

  28. Remnant wrote:

    Who thinks that Savage is given a departing “love offeing”? For the family, of course.

    I imagine Highpoint will give Any Savage a nice severance package. CLC gave a nice severance to Mahaney’s son in laws when they decided to leave.

  29. Savage could be an Uber driver for his next career. He seems to know how to navigate the back roads

  30. Beth74 wrote:

    But I feel like some of his resignation letter got cut off — it’s missing this vital piece somehow:
    “When Jules confronted me on my past behavior through an email, I did not act in the spirit of David deeply repenting after Nathaniel the prophet confronted him. Instead, I ignored her entirely and ardently wished she would disappear or spontaneously drop dead. I did not repent, nor did I even address her or acknowledge her pain until it became a full-scale out-ing by the media. I clearly cannot be trusted to take responsibility for my actions, nor do I have compassion for any victims of my abuse, unless I am publicly forced to. For these reasons, I am stepping down from ministry entirely. God help me.”

    Don’t forget the part that right after molesting. Jules Savage taught a “True Love Waits” workshop.

  31. Remnant wrote:

    A mutual relationship??? Really???? That would have included, let’s say for argument’s sake, going out for ice cream, sneaking an arm around her shoulder, snuggling her ear, a little pecking and kissy face …. not freaking unzipping his pants and demanding what he did!

    This is so true. The fact Savage labels what a youth pastor did to a minor charge – flipping it out and telling her to service him, as if this were her job… Good grief. Not a relationship. Not mutual. Sick. Seriously flawed behavior and thinking. And criminal to boot. Any church that would employ him, is also seriously in trouble.

    As for Conlee, he may haved hired Savage, but he doesn’t pay the salaries. It’s not his $$$.

  32. “When our relationship became physical”

    I’m confused. Was there some kind of romantic but non sexual relationship Andy and Jules had prior to his sexual coercion/kidnapping? Or is the term “relationship ” meant to soften the edges, so to speak, of his wrongdoing?

  33. @ Marie:
    Savage keeps pushing his deceitful rhetoric:

    “our relationship became physical”
    “consensual”
    “incident”
    “I was in college”

    He won’t come right out and admit a youth pastor pulled out his part and used his pastoral authority to demand service from a minor in his youth group, down a dark dirt road in the woods (when he said he would take her home. All his idea. He at the wheel of his truck). Sick. Twenty years hasn’t changed anything. Same mindset. Trustworthy? Still a predator. If nothing else, his rhetoric displays he is a sexual predator, as he should have been labeled twenty years ago.

  34. @ Marie:
    Yes.
    Andy Savage had been caught, alone in a bedroom tickling her prior to their “organic moment”. Adults in the church had told him to not be alone with youth group students after this tickling incident. Gee, I wonder why??
    While we, obviously, do not have all the details, would your want your 16 year old daughter (or maybe younger) alone, in a bedroom, being tickled by a “youth pastor”?? As was pointed out before, there was warning signs and multiple failures by others at this church prior to the “organic moment”. This “organic moment” was not “out of the blue”.
    As this all continues to play out, it sure looks like the church under which this “relationship” and “organic moment” tool place has as much guilt as Andy S. does… It is my speculation that is why it was “covered up” and Jules was thrown under the bus… she was expendable for the “sake of the gospel” and “reputation of that specific church”…. I have seen other, less serious, things covered up for “sake of the gospel”…

  35. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    @ Marie:
    Yes.
    Andy Savage had been caught, alone in a bedroom tickling her prior to their “organic moment”. Adults in the church had told him to not be alone with youth group students after this tickling incident. Gee, I wonder why??
    While we, obviously, do not have all the details, would your want your 16 year old daughter (or maybe younger) alone, in a bedroom, being tickled by a “youth pastor”?? As was pointed out before, there was warning signs and multiple failures by others at this church prior to the “organic moment”. This “organic moment” was not “out of the blue”.
    As this all continues to play out, it sure looks like the church under which this “relationship” and “organic moment” tool place has as much guilt as Andy S. does… It is my speculation that is why it was “covered up” and Jules was thrown under the bus… she was expendable for the “sake of the gospel” and “reputation of that specific church”…. I have seen other, less serious, things covered up for “sake of the gospel”…

    Did someone actually say that? “For the sake of the gospel”?

    I mean, it’s weird. THAT IS the gospel. Or part of it anyways.

    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
    He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
    and recovering of sight to the blind,
    to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
    to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

    It is not some abstract “thing”. But “good news”. Which includes doing the right thing.

  36. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    it sure looks like the church under which this “relationship” and “organic moment” tool place has as much guilt as Andy S. does… It is my speculation that is why it was “covered up” and Jules was thrown under the bus… she was expendable for the “sake of the gospel” and “reputation of that specific church”….

    Well, twenty years later, the predator, leadership and the church now have the reputation. Assault on a minor never just goes away. It needs to be addressed, sooner is better than later.

    The cases that Attorney Jeff Anderson handles involve even middle-aged men that literally weep at the microphone when they tell their stories. The impact on the child is enormous, deep and long-lasting. That’s why it is a crime.

    Predators don’t get it. They use the child or minor as a robot to service their lust, plain and simple. The victim figures it out – they were used as a sex object for a bully in clergy attire.

  37. JYJames wrote:

    Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    it sure looks like the church under which this “relationship” and “organic moment” tool place has as much guilt as Andy S. does… It is my speculation that is why it was “covered up” and Jules was thrown under the bus… she was expendable for the “sake of the gospel” and “reputation of that specific church”….

    Well, twenty years later, the predator, leadership and the church now have the reputation. Assault on a minor never just goes away. It needs to be addressed, sooner is better than later.

    The cases that Attorney Jeff Anderson handles involve even middle-aged men that literally weep at the microphone when they tell their stories. The impact on the child is enormous, deep and long-lasting. That’s why it is a crime.

    Predators don’t get it. They use the child or minor as a robot to service their lust, plain and simple. The victim figures it out – they were used as a sex object for a bully in clergy attire.

    Bully is an understandment. That’s the textbook definition of a sociopath. Objectification. Psychopaths and sociopaths have feelings, but they literally don’t believe/understand that others also do.

  38. Seraph wrote:

    Objectification. Psychopaths and sociopaths have feelings, but they literally don’t believe/understand that others also do.

    Well then, corrected: “… victims [children, minors] were used as sex objects for sociopaths in clergy attire.” Objectification.

  39. JYJames wrote:

    Seraph wrote:

    Objectification. Psychopaths and sociopaths have feelings, but they literally don’t believe/understand that others also do.

    Well then, corrected: “… victims [children, minors] were used as sex objects for sociopaths in clergy attire.” Objectification.

    Oh, I’m not really criticizing you or anything. I just want to say how awful it is.

  40. JDV wrote:

    Or outside of leadership (being “above reproach” per the Scriptures notwithstanding), as being in servant ministry would be quite Biblical but might not pay the bills quite as readily.

    Especially when one just HAS to keep up with the Furticks.

  41. I think that heaven is rejoicing for this triumph of right over wrong (albeit an imperfect triumph). And Dee and Deb, as well as all of you who have fought for justice for Jules, deserve a huge amount of credit. I don’t believe that Andy Savage would have resigned without all of the pressure that you (and others) put on him. I hope and pray that other abusers (and those who cover up abuse) will soon have their own “come to Jesus” moment and have justice meted out. I looked back again at Savage’s apology, and noted again where he said “I apologized and sought forgiveness from her, her parents, her discipleship group, the church staff, and the church leadership who informed the congregation. This incident was dealt with in Texas 20 years ago…” Those were all lies. How did he think he would get away with it? (I guess he didn’t count on our adorable bloggers)…

    I hope that Jules has access to legal advice. I think she should seriously consider suing Andy Savage and Highpoint Church for defamation. There were definitely oral and written statements that were false and injurious made against her. There are some “he said, she said” differences where a court may find it difficult to determine the truth. But Larry Cotton and other leaders at the church 20 years ago would be invaluable witnesses. I know that money doesn’t solve everything and it certainly can’t take away Jules’ decades of pain, but I think a large financial penalty would help Andy Savage and Highpoint learn their lesson. Just my two cents worth.

  42. @ Seraph:
    Not taken as criticism. Edits or improvements are good. Discourse is good, too, (and available thanks to the lovely TWW ladies, praise God). Best.

  43. His tweets are protected, but if you go to his twitter page he’s removed his wife from his cover picture. His little bio says he’s still married. Could be nothing but I found it odd.

  44. Reading the comments here is so therapeutic. I really appreciate what others here have pointed out about this “apology.” I’m still coming out of the fog of my own life – I know something is off about his language but can’t always identify just what.

  45. Remnant wrote:

    Who thinks that Savage is given a departing “love offeing”? For the family, of course.

    I’m sure he’s departing with a nice “golden parachute.” I suspect he’s getting a much larger severance package than the five weeks’ pay I received when I was laid off nine years ago from a company where I worked for more than twenty years.

  46. singleman wrote:

    Molly245 wrote:

    finally–I think a standing ovation for Jules and TWW is in order.

    Agreed!

    Hear, hear! and Rachel, too.

  47. Mercy wrote:

    refugee wrote:

    In his resignation, he’s still clinging to the narrative that it was “relationship” and not a form of sexual coercion:

    “As I’ve reflected during my leave of absence, I have come to see that many wrongs occurred in 1998. The first was my inappropriate relationship with Jules, which was not only immoral, but meets the definition of abuse of power since I was her youth pastor; therefore, when our relationship became physical, there could be no claim of mutual consent. Another wrong was the failure to follow due process afterward; Jules deserved, and did not get, a full investigation and proper response 20 years ago.” (emphasis added)

    I agree. More minimising. He is still a snake. I said in January Conlee would throw Andy under the bus. He did. But Conlee is culpable. He knew all about Andy’s past and stood by his guy, making Jules look bad. This was his way of saving his own backside. It’s the best that can be expected for Jules. But it still disgusts me.

    I agree. Of the two, Conlee is probably the more dangerous. He has a long history of failure in dealing with this sort of thing.

  48. Seriously? The authors of these updates are mega church leaders? They still sound like junior high boys. They just NOW understand their errors??? It took prayer and BIBLE reading to get it??? Why do people follow these people?

  49. Remnant wrote:

    I’m glad Jules is seeing a bit of vindication after lo these twenty long years.

    I’m disgusted with Savage STILL clinging to the false narrative about being in a “relationship” with Jules, which I think is meant to persuade the public, still, that she is complicit in what he did to her.

    Conlee needs to be held accountable for showing lack of discernment, spiritual insight and disturbing leadership in the hiring Savage even knowing what transpired, for allowing or orchestrating the standing ovation and the following worship that cried out, “you are worthy, Andy!”

    Yes, Conlee is wriggling. Time for him to go.

  50. Marie wrote:

    “When our relationship became physical”

    I’m confused. Was there some kind of romantic but non sexual relationship Andy and Jules had prior to his sexual coercion/kidnapping? Or is the term “relationship ” meant to soften the edges, so to speak, of his wrongdoing?

    The ‘relationship’ consisted of Savage’s prior grooming behaviour.

  51. Patti wrote:

    Seriously? The authors of these updates are mega church leaders? They still sound like junior high boys. They just NOW understand their errors??? It took prayer and BIBLE reading to get it??? Why do people follow these people?

    They’re not a church. It’s a racket.

    I’m sorry for anyone who imagined otherwise though.

  52. Remnant wrote:

    Conlee needs to be held accountable for showing lack of discernment, spiritual insight and disturbing leadership in the hiring Savage even knowing what transpired, for allowing or orchestrating the standing ovation and the following worship that cried out, “you are worthy, Andy!”

    AMEN

  53. Beth74 wrote:

    AMEN to his resignation!!
    But I feel like some of his resignation letter got cut off — it’s missing this vital piece somehow:
    “When Jules confronted me on my past behavior through an email, I did not act in the spirit of David deeply repenting after Nathaniel the prophet confronted him. Instead, I ignored her entirely and ardently wished she would disappear or spontaneously drop dead. I did not repent, nor did I even address her or acknowledge her pain until it became a full-scale out-ing by the media. I clearly cannot be trusted to take responsibility for my actions, nor do I have compassion for any victims of my abuse, unless I am publicly forced to. For these reasons, I am stepping down from ministry entirely. God help me.”

    Exactly! Allow me to paraphrase his letter just a little further, “I’m not really sorry, only sorry that I got caught. If I want to keep the money flowing, my lawyers say I HAVE to do this.”

    Those links are just dripping with legalese and “cover-your-hiney” posturing!

  54. These guys often come back after awhile it seems, but maybe he will sink into obscurity, like Ted Haggard. Average “adulterous” type of scandals usually have “comebacks”. Like Jim Bakker or that Todd Bentley dude.

  55. JDV wrote:

    And the other parsings, such as “meets the definition of abuse of power”.

    Translation? ‘People have said this and I feel the need to state it as well, but I don’t really *believe* it’.

  56. Jack wrote:

    “Relationship”? No, there was no relationship on that dark road and that statement says it all.

    I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve never had a ‘relationship’ which lasted one evening and was followed immediately by a request that I not tell anyone and ‘take it to the grave’.

    Step off with your relationship, Andy.

  57. Forrest wrote:

    The ‘relationship’ consisted of Savage’s prior grooming behaviour.

    And then he moved on to grooming a church. Not planting, but grooming. How many church folks are not discipled in Christ but groomed to be duped and held captive by a spiritual shyster?

    https://twitter.com/jdahlmd Julia Dahl has posted infographics that break down the @andysavage resignation statement. Very astute. This is what needs to happen. Christians are not all groomed and pushovers. Some Christians get it, thank God. We are the Body of Christ: Jules, Dee, Deb, Rachel, Julia. Vigilance to break the grooming cycle, the snake oil sales pitch and racket.

  58. Beth74 wrote:

    AMEN to his resignation!!

    But I feel like some of his resignation letter got cut off — it’s missing this vital piece somehow:

    “When Jules confronted me on my past behavior through an email, I did not act in the spirit of David deeply repenting after Nathaniel the prophet confronted him. Instead, I ignored her entirely and ardently wished she would disappear or spontaneously drop dead. I did not repent, nor did I even address her or acknowledge her pain until it became a full-scale out-ing by the media. I clearly cannot be trusted to take responsibility for my actions, nor do I have compassion for any victims of my abuse, unless I am publicly forced to. For these reasons, I am stepping down from ministry entirely. God help me.”

    If just one of them, just once, would say something even remotely like this, something even slightly like King David or Peter’s repentance when they knew they’d really done someone wrong. Just once. But then again, if they were the types of people who’d do that, they probably wouldn’t have been the types to use God to pursue spotlights and stages and fame and power and wealth and glory for themselves in the first place.

    Asking for the typical “Christian” megachurch celeb to be genuinely contrite and to truly repent in humility and to honestly think of another, much less be willing to lay down their lives for another, is like asking for red greenness.

  59. Patti wrote:

    Seriously? The authors of these updates are mega church leaders? They still sound like junior high boys. They just NOW understand their errors??? It took prayer and BIBLE reading to get it??? Why do people follow these people?

    I so agree!

  60. As far as I know Andy Savage still has neither confirmed nor denied the allegations in any specific way. If the allegations were untrue I would expect him to deny them. If they were true and he was repentant I would expect him to confirm them. As it is it looks like he is trying to get credit for repenting without people actually knowing for sure, which means he looks like a weasel.

    When he was on the radio program, did the interviewer ask him about what happened that night? Or was it more about how he feels now?

  61. Savage’s language is designed to uphold the scenario of a relationship in which things went too far. If this is the case, and he believes Jules is not telling the whole story, it is not clear that he has attempted to make that case. I have never heard – correct me if I am wrong – him claim that they were out parking, as young people are wont to do, and things went too far. It does seem, however, that this is most likely the story he has been telling all of these years, including to the pastors over him at the time and perhaps even to himself.

    Most reasonable adults understand the difference between two infatuated kids getting in over their heads in the heat of the moment and a person in a position of trust abusing that position to successfully manipulate a frightened young girl into performing sexual favors. My contention is that Jules clearly asserts one scenario, and Savage is attempting to use language that ‘suggests’ another. Had he come out and made a case for lies being told, he could at least have been given a fair hearing. It seems to me that he is attempting to portray himself as a suffering saint, taking the high road while being falsely accused and maligned. Perhaps I am not reading things accurately.

  62. On the record:

    1) Andy Savage resigns from Highpoint Church pastor position.
    2) Andy Savage resigns from Woodlands Parkway Baptist Church AKA StoneBridge Church, youth pastor position.

    For more information: Google and read.

  63. Seraph wrote:

    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
    He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
    and recovering of sight to the blind,
    to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
    to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

    Amen, Seraph!

  64. truthseeker00 wrote:

    Most reasonable adults understand the difference between two infatuated kids getting in over their heads in the heat of the moment and a person in a position of trust abusing that position to successfully manipulate a frightened young girl into performing sexual favors. My contention is that Jules clearly asserts one scenario, and Savage is attempting to use language that ‘suggests’ another.

    On point. Savage presents a false scenario with “consensual”, “relationship”, and “incident”, and thus completely invalidates his “confession” and “repentance”.

  65. Patti wrote:

    Seriously? The authors of these updates are mega church leaders? They still sound like junior high boys. They just NOW understand their errors??? It took prayer and BIBLE reading to get it??? Why do people follow these people?

    Some of these F’ers can’t even add 2 + 2 or take a dump without prayer and/or a direct God Saith statement from the BIBLE. Shows how Spiritual they are.

  66. Forrest wrote:

    I agree. Of the two, Conlee is probably the more dangerous. He has a long history of failure in dealing with this sort of thing.

    And Savage can be sacrificed to protect Conlee.

  67. singleman wrote:

    Remnant wrote:
    Who thinks that Savage is given a departing “love offeing”? For the family, of course.
    I’m sure he’s departing with a nice “golden parachute.” I suspect he’s getting a much larger severance package than the five weeks’ pay I received when I was laid off nine years ago from a company where I worked for more than twenty years.

    RANK HATH ITS PRIVILEGES.
    (Including sexual privileges over your Inferiors…)

  68. at least I’m sort of out wrote:

    Reading the comments here is so therapeutic. I really appreciate what others here have pointed out about this “apology.” I’m still coming out of the fog of my own life – I know something is off about his language but can’t always identify just what.

    It’s a three-way cross between “written by liability lawyers and vetted through focus groups”, Plausible Deniability, and Loopholes. What I’d expect from a Manipulator.

  69. truthseeker00 wrote:

    Savage is attempting to use language that ‘suggests’ another

    – The youth pastor groomed and manipulated his youth charges using his pastor power to service his lust. He moved on to pastor a mega church.

    – The mega church pastor groomed and manipulated his congregation using his pastor power to service his greed. He moves on in the media spotlight.

    – Now in the media spotlight, the limelighter controls the narrative and manipulates the public with his opportunity at the microphone, using deceptive language and a false narrative to service his pride and camouflage his reputation. Where does he go from here?

  70. Where is the statement:
    “As an act of sincere contrition, I will be reimbursing Jules for the cost of counseling she has received and will pay for her counseling going forward. When SHE feels the time is right, I would like to apologize to her in person and discuss with her what other steps she believes I can take to make right the wrongs I have done to her and to the Body of Christ. I especially want to assure her that if I ever return to any form of ministry in the future, it will be in an administrative capacity and will not be a pastoral/ministerial position.”

  71. JYJames wrote:

    Where does he go from here?

    Maybe he should go to Louisville…that way he can hide out until this all blows over. It worked for C.J. Mahaney, didn’t it? (NOT!)

    I think Jesus had something to say about this in Luke 12:2-3…about darkness and light and secrets and rooftops! The day WILL declare it and the voice of the marginalized, maligned and mistreated will all be heard–make no mistake about it!

  72. @ Mercy:

    “But Conlee is culpable. He knew all about Andy’s past and stood by his guy, making Jules look bad.”
    ++++++++++++

    i suspect what he knew was that Andy had a physical relationship with someone before he married Amanda, simple as that.

    I have my doubts that either of them sees it as anything other than that, even now. just don’t see how a person can staunchly hold their ground for so long and then all of a sudden change, and it be from sincere conviction.

    (especially considering the pressure from NY Times piece, & Larry Cotton’s decision and explanation)

  73. Root 66 wrote:

    Maybe he should go to Louisville…that way he can hide out until this all blows over.

    These scoundrels seem to move themselves around, always running from the truth, but they can’t hide. That John Smyth fellow went from the UK to Zimbabwe to S. Africa, where his neighbors received a news clipping warning them about “the charming old child abuser next door”.

    https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2017-02-09-the-charming-old-child-abuser-next-door-smyth-neighbours-get-letterbox-warning/

  74. elastigirl wrote:

    i suspect what he knew was that Andy had a physical relationship with someone before he married Amanda, simple as that.

    I agree in part. I agree that sex outside of marriage is one of theee… big and all encompassing taboos in those circles. And yet, had it been another consenting adult he’d done the hanky-panky with, he’d have been drummed out of ministry faster than you can say “Corinthians”.
    As it was though, it happened to be an underage girl under his tutelage with which they could spin the various verses on ‘sin’ and ‘sinner’ to their advantage.
    Theirs truly is a perplexing religion.

  75. @ Muff Potter:

    i suspect the idea was conveyed that it was a mere meaningless fling.

    The implication would have been that the female participant was just some promiscuous whore-like being.

    The further implication would have been that Andy was rather defenseless against such feminine wiles. Hell, Andy’s the victim here.

    And now that he’s resigned, Andy’s the hero of this story.

    (or at least I have reason to suspect such things)

  76. Muff Potter wrote:

    And yet, had it been another consenting adult he’d done the hanky-panky with, he’d have been drummed out of ministry faster than you can say “Corinthians”.

    Not sure about that, though. It seems it’s always the girl/woman who gets most of the blame. Because we’re all seductive jezebels/the devil just trying to bring down the awesome man of god. *eyeroll*

    I think because she was underage he lost his job, but it wasn’t adultery so maybe that’s why he got a long term pass?

  77. Lea wrote:

    I think because she was underage he lost his job, but it wasn’t adultery so maybe that’s why he got a long term pass?

    If “adultery” is redefined to mean only a specific act (Tab A in Slot B) and nothing else…
    LOOPHOLE! LOOPHOLE!

    “I did not have sex with that woman.”
    — William J Clinton

    “I did not know her in a Biblical sense.”
    — Doug Phillips ESQUIRE

  78. @ elastigirl & Lea:

    You both raise salient points which in all likelihood have substance.

  79. @ Muff Potter:
    Like there is no rape in marriage? There is no assault in the youth group or the church? Those that attend are just the tools of the leaders? This is so backwards. Those so-called tools pay the $alarie$ of the leaders, and are the volunteers or the doers in the organization. When are the leaders going to get it?

  80. @ JYJames:
    A Lowborn Serf’s only reason for existence is the enrichment and convenience of his Highborn Betters.

  81. @ Headless Unicorn Guy:
    Which is why “relationship” is an inappropriate term for a youth group girl servicing a lying deceptive youth pastor down a dirt road in a dark forest. Tool. He used her.

    This is completely opposed to the message of Jesus, “Stand fast therefore in your liberty, wherefore Christ has set us free, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage,” – to the youth pastor, to the pastor, to anyone. God loves us, all across age, gender, ethnicity, and socio-economic strata. Love. Dignity. Integrity. Thanks, JC. I think of that girl held hostage right now in Nigeria because she will not be forced to give up her faith. God bless her.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *