“No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar” ― Abraham Lincoln link
No- Roy Moore’s dating habits are not like this. link
Roy Moore’s brother claimed that Roy believes (as does his brother) that he is being persecuted just like Jesus Christ was. I think if I hear this excuse for bad behavior one more time, I shall enroll in primal scream therapy. Evangelicals have a penchant for using this statement to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their indefensible behavior which is being pointed out to them.
The controversial Judge Roy Moore has built his support amongst evangelical voters in Alabama by claiming that he is a strong Christian of impeccable integrity. His integrity has come into question since 5 women have come forward, alleging that Moore had either pursued them or sexually assaulted them when they were teens. He claims to be a Southern Baptist but his church does not seem to be a member of the SBC.
TWW does not discuss politics for politics sake, believing that our readers are thoughtful individuals who can make up their own decisions on how to vote without our input into the matter. However, we do discuss issues of abuse within the general evangelical and liturgical communities. We would ask that the discussion surrounding this post deal specifically with the charges against Moore.
I became persuaded that these accusations were true when I listened to Sean Hannity’s interview of Roy Moore last week. Hannity is known to be a Moore supporter so I was surprised when he asked some questions of Moore that led me to believe that these allegations had substance. My husband, who listened along with me, said “I think the guy did it.” However, despite this interview, Hannity still believes that Moore is innocent.
“Let me ask you this you do remember these girls would it be unusual for you as a 32 year old guy to have dated a woman as young as 17? That would be a 15 year difference or a girl 18. Do you remember dating girls that young at that time?” Hannity asked.
“Not generally, no,” Moore answered. “If did, you know, I’m not going to dispute anything but I don’t remember anything like that.”
…I don’t remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother. And I think in her statement she said that her mother actually encouraged her to go out with me.
The following are some articles and thoughts on the Roy Moore situation.
Why did the women wait until now to make their claims?
Most women, especially teenagers, who are victims of assault or untoward advances often feel shame, embarrassment, are frightened and blame themselves what happened. They may confide in a friend but can remain silent for decades. However, times are changing. As more victims begin to stand up to their abusers and find support in the court of public opinion, others are encouraged that they will be listened to as well. Think about Jerry Sandusky, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, etc.
I believe that many victims may become angry when their abuser is touted as a man of integrity when they know that he is a secret abuser. This could be the case in Roy Moore’s situation. He certainly claims his Christian credentials at every turn. It does not surprise me that some women, now older and savvy, decided to speak out about what happened to them.
Is there evidence that Roy Moore is lying?
Yesterday, Slate posted Roy Moore Is Lying: Here’s the mountain of evidence against him.
The post goes on to report:
Corfman’s friends also vouch for her account. They weren’t there when she met Moore, but soon afterward, she told them about dates with him, including a sexual incident. One friend recalls details from Corfman’s contemporaneous reports (Moore “wore nothing but tight white underwear”) that match her current story. An ex-boyfriend of Corfman’s says she also told him about having dated Moore. To discount Corfman’s story, you’d have to believe not only that she’s trying to sabotage Moore’s campaign but that she prepared the attack 38 years ago.
In the same post, the author looks at Moore’s denial about knowing the latest victim to come forward.
I don’t even know the woman.” On Monday, a fifth woman, Beverly Young Nelson, said that Moore had sexually assaulted her in his car outside the Old Hickory House in Gadsden—where she worked and he was a regular customer—when he was 30 and she was 16. Moore says that’s impossible: “I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her. I don’t even know where the restaurant is or was.”
That denial won’t stand up. If Moore doesn’t know Nelson, why does she have a high school yearbook signed by him (“to a sweeter, more beautiful girl”) on Dec. 22, 1977, just before the alleged incident? And why does the inscription say, in handwriting remarkably similar to Moore’s, “Olde Hickory House”?
People claim that they *know Roy Moore* and know he wouldn’t do such a thing.
Seriously? How do they know? Jerry Sandusky’s wife claimed her husband could not have molested the boys when he brought them home because she would have known.
The difficult problem with sex abuse is this. It usually happens behind closed doors and there are only two witnesses: the abused and the abuser. Have you ever listened to the neighbors of a serial killer when they find out the truth? I have. Almost all of them say things like “He was great neighbor. He always helped me to shovel my yard” or “He always came to the neighborhood cookout.”
I don’t care if someone has been Roy’s best friend since he was 5. They were not with him every second of his life and abusers can be incredibly able manipulators and charmers. That is how they get away with their activities.
child abusers may appear very charming or likeable in an effort to win the trust of the child and those around the child.
A former homeschooler takes on the *courting culture* in certain evangelical circles.
Roy Moore’s alleged pursuit of a young girl is the symptom of a larger problem in evangelical circle is an op ed in the LA Times on 11/10, written by Kathryn Brightbill, a former homeschooler. Unfortunately, we cannot refute what she has written.
We need to talk about the segment of American culture that probably doesn’t think the allegations against Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore are particularly damning, the segment that will blanch at only two accusations in the Washington Post expose: He pursued a 14-year-old-girl without first getting her parents’ permission, and he initiated sexual contact outside of marriage. That segment is evangelicalism. In that world, which Moore travels in and I grew up in, 14-year-old girls courting adult men isn’t uncommon.
I use the phrase “14-year-old girls courting adult men,” rather than “adult men courting 14-year-old girls,” for a reason: Evangelicals routinely frame these relationships in those terms. That’s how I was introduced to these relationships as a home-schooled teenager in the 1990s, and it’s the language that my friends and I would use to discuss girls we knew who were in parent-sanctioned relationships with older men.
Here are some examples she discussed.
Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty star, who is greatly beloved by The Gospel Coalition which featured a number of his writing.(Do a search on TGC’s website.):
“Duck Dynasty” star Phil Robertson advocated for adult men to marry 15- and 16-year-old girls and deemed age 20 too old because “you wait until they get to be 20 years old, the only picking that’s going to take place is your pocket.”
Imprisoned Jack Schaap of the IFB and other IFB churches:
Former IFB megachurch pastor Jack Schaap argued that he should be released from prison after being convicted of molesting a 16-year-old girl, asserting that the “aggressiveness” of his victim “inhibited [his] impulse control.” In the wake of the Schaap case, numerous other stories emerged of sexual abuse cover-ups involving teenage girls at IFB churches. In another high-profile case, pregnant 15-year-old Tina Anderson, who was raped by a church deacon twice her age, was forced to confess her “sin” to the congregation.
Doug Wilson: Reformed conservative celebrities greatly loved by John Piper and The Gospel Coalition:
Prominent conservative Reformed theologian Doug Wilson has a documented history of mishandling sexual abuse cases within his congregation. Nevertheless, he continues to be promoted by evangelical leaders such as John Piper, whose Desiring God site still publishes Wilson’s work. When a 13-year-old girl in Wilson’s congregation was sexually abused, Wilson argued that she and her abuser were in a parent-sanctioned courtship, and that this was a mitigating factor.
Similar issues in the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America):
A Presbyterian Church in America, or PCA, pastor attempted to discipline a woman who warned home-school parents of the convicted sex offender in his congregation. (The sex offender had gone online to solicit a 14-year-old girl for sex.) Another PCA church allowed that same convicted sex offender to give the invocation at a home-school graduation ceremony. He wasn’t perceived as an attempted child rapist, and he was “repentant.”
She ends her post by stating that the evangelical church is due for a reckoning.
The evangelical world is overdue for a reckoning. Women raised in evangelicalism and fundamentalism have for years discussed the normalization of child sexual abuse.
Ross Douthat had some choice words for the swine of conservatism.
Douthat wrote The Swine of Conservatism on November 11. He first described *liberal pigs,* as those who act like Harvey Weinstein while at the same time pretending that they respect women. Then, he defines conservative swine. Pay attention to these categories. I think he nails it!
One type is what you might call the rotten patriarch. This is the man who depends on the trappings of spiritual or familial authority to exploit the young and weak, shame them into silence, and pre-emptively discredit them.
The rotten patriarch might be anyone from a handsy pastor or a lecherous pillar of the community to the leader of a sect or religious order.
For instance, there is the burrower, the networker, the institutionalist — the predator who embeds himself within a hierarchical system that protects him because it wants to protect itself.
the creep who relies on the promise of forgiveness to keep his place and his powers and his opportunities to prey again.
Here is where he brings it home. Unlike many in the evangelical churches that we cover, Douthat knows that some people use the naivety of those in the church to *return to the same sins.”
Biblical precedents are often invoked in the predator’s defense. Didn’t King David sleep around? Doesn’t every saint have a past, every sinner a future? All good Christian wisdom — except that some sinners only want a future where they can return to the same old awful sins.
He describes toxic Christian culture as one that combines male headship with “boys all be boys.”
Some cultural conservatives, in evangelical Christianity especially, combine a belief in male headship in churches and families with a “boys will be boys and girls shouldn’t tempt them” attitude toward sex. It’s a combination that’s self-contradictory and deeply toxic, handing men not just power but a permission slip to abuse it — which, predictably, they do.
Dothat offers a serious warning to Christians.
“For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.” These words apply everywhere now, to Hollywood pagans and Alabama Christians alike.
But the Christians have particular reasons to meditate upon them — and to consider that they don’t just apply to sexual predations, but to the worldly impulses that make otherwise decent people into defenders of the indefensible.
No, Roy Moore dating teen girls is not like Joseph and Mary.
There is so much to say about this situation. I bet we will be writing more as this story develops. So, a final example is the statement by Jim Zeigler, a friend of Roy Moore. Zeigler needs to get with his pastor and review why Moore’s pursuit of teenage females is not like the relationship between Mary and Joseph. (Good night! I can’t believe I need to say this!)
Also, this embarrassingly imbecilic excuse seems to give further credence to allegations of Moore’s dating tastes.
An Alabama state official on Thursday dismissed a Washington Post report alleging that GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore had initiated a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl decades ago, saying there was an age gap between the biblical Joseph and Mary. The Post also alleged that Moore had pursued three others when they were between the ages of 16 and 18 and he was in his early 30s.
“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus,” Alabama State Auditor Jim Zeigler told The Washington Examiner. “There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
I think this tweet sums up me feelings about this situation.