“The shame, embarrassment, feeling of low self-worth, and scores of “labels” we give ourselves are not fitting. I am beginning to see how I had no control over the situation. He was a big man, I was a little boy.” ― Charles L. Bailey Jr., In the Shadow of the Cross link
Red Binder
Tom Chantry’s casse now scheduled for jury selection
I learned the following from Todd Wilhelm today.
A jury trial set for 1/8/18. Dates shift around quite a bit in these sort of cases, so we’ll see if that happens.
Why Todd thinks ARBCA should be worried.
According to Todd, if it is true that ARBCA knew of the allegations against Tom Chantry and intentionally did not report them. then ARBCA should be concerned.
Here is an interesting court case from the same country in AZ that the Chantry case will be tried. It seems that leaders in the ARBCA may have reason to be nervous for their failure to report Chantry to law enforcement.
According to the Daily Courier in Cottonwood man takes plea deal in child sex case, father charged with failure to report.
Christian Swank plead guilty to three counts of attempted sexual conduct with a minor under the age of 15 and one count of attempted child molestation.
Swank’s father, Brandon Swank, is currently facing a charge of failing to report neglect of a minor and is set for a pretrial conference in Verde Valley Justice Court in December, court records state.
YCSO detectives discovered that during December of 2016, (the father) became aware of the sexual abuse of a child by his son, Christian,” D’Evelyn said, but he chose not to report the crime to law enforcement and requested that family members also not report the crime.
I wonder what the statute of limitations is for failure to report in Arizona?
2
bronze?
drstevej wrote:
There should be no statute of limitations in any State when it comes to child abuse! The C.J. Mahaney / Sovereign Grace Ministry lawsuit was dismissed because of the statute of limitations in Maryland. However, in the Kingdom of God, there is no statute of limitations when it comes to child abuse … there will be a day of reckoning for these men.
Max wrote:
Actually, Muslin inquired about that, not Dr. Steve.
Muslin fka Deana Holmes wrote:
Can’t readily say! I took a peek at Arizona’s mandatory reporting statute, though, and it’s not immediately clear whether ARBCA (or, more to the point, its individual members who conducted an investigation) would count as a mandatory reporter at all.
ARS §13-3620.A provides that “any person who reasonably believes that a minor is or has been the victim of physical injury, abuse, child abuse,” etc., “shall report” it to authorities.
Which sounds very clear-cut, but it goes on to define “person” MUCH more narrowly than you’d think. The definition DOES include any “member of the clergy, priest or Christian Science practitioner,” but a layman who has no responsibility for the care or treatment of the minor has no obligation to report (unless they’re a peace officer, child welfare investigator, etc).
So the question is who exactly ARBCA tasked with investigating this stuff; what exactly they found; and, if the investigators were also pastors, were they acting *as* pastors — that is, do they fall within the definition of “clergy” if they are, for instance, visiting from Michigan solely to investigate these charges?
And if they *were* clergy, guess what? They can skip out on any liability by simply asserting that they received a “confidential communication” which, in their (sole) judgment, their religion required them to keep confidential. As long as they didn’t personally see signs of abuse or harm to any children, they’d be in the clear:
“A member of the clergy who has received a confidential communication or a confession in that person’s role as a member of the clergy in the course of the discipline enjoined by the church to which the member of the clergy belongs may withhold reporting of the communication or confession if the member of the clergy determines that it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion. This exemption applies only to the communication or confession and not to personal observations the member of the clergy may otherwise make of the minor.”
So.TL;DR: sadly, we shouldn’t hold our breath on this one. (I’m not a lawyer, mind, and I hope one of the resident law-knowin’ people will swoop in to tell me how wrong I am.)
I don’t know enough about the law to know how far it would cover something like that.
But I am a bit surprised a jury trial has been set with no plea bargain worked out so far. Of course, I’ve stood as a criminal jury selection member outside a courtroom for an hour when the bailiff walked out and dismissed us because of a last minute plea bargain. Probably use as much time as they can to wheedle the court.
I know from my family that Chantry was a horrible person. It was not a secret in Prescott. So I hope he sees jail bars whether he gets a plea bargain or not.
ishy wrote:
Was your family part of a church with him, or did they know him some other way?
Thanks for the update Dee and Todd
@ David:
So what you’re saying is that there is a law but it has so many loopholes pedophiles in churches and church staff are able to get out of everything. Hmmm why am i not surprised??
ishy wrote:
Good point!
I was reading the comments here and a few past posts and was thinking about how Jesus was upset about people that made His Fathers house a den of robbers, so upset that He made a whip and cleared out the temple! And then i wished He were here now because i remember reading that He had even more dire warnings for people that offend little children that believe in Him, i wished that He was here and would clear the temple of nowdays of pedophiles and then i remembered that He is here now- in the hearts of His followers! Jesus didnt kill or assault anyone while He was on earth and we need to remember that and act the same,”wise as serpents and harmless as doves” but i believe we are to cleanse His Fathers house by speaking up with a voice that refuses to be silenced. Standing up for those that have no voice, standing against the tide of church cover ups that demean and disparage any that dare to come forward with their cries for justice for the abuse they have suffered. Standing up online and also in person publicly when we can. I am so thankful for the wartburgwatch being the platform for voices to be heard.
13-3620:A of your criminal code seems to say that a member of the clergy “shall immediately” report an offence, unless the information was given confidentially or in the confessional and they can withhold reporting if “it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion” bit of wriggle room there I think.
Failure to report is classed here as a class 6 felony and the state of limitations is seven years from the date the offence was committed.
Lowlandseer wrote:
Thank you for letting us know. I am hoping to see state of limitations involving child sex abuse-including the reporting of abuses, extended . The psychology inherent in children who are abused is well known. Many do not get the courage or maturity to report it for decades. This is not the same thing as holding up a convenience store and stealing some cookies. Many states within the US are beginning to extend such statutes due to greater understanding of the matter.
Lowlandseer wrote:
Huh? Where are you getting this ‘seven years from date the offense was committed’ business?
@ dee:
I think 50 years would be a good starting point to set the statute of limitations for this particular crime.
“”The shame, embarrassment, feeling of low self-worth, and scores of “labels” we give ourselves are not fitting. I am beginning to see how I had no control over the situation. He was a big man, I was a little boy.” ― Charles L. Bailey Jr., In the Shadow of the Cross”.
True, true. It’s amazing how much self-abuse survivors will inflict themselves. To this day, there is still a great number of Christians on their blogs will confess their “sin” of having been a victim of either sexual, physical or spiritual abuse. It’s disgusting and it needs to stop.
When someone breaks into an individual’s house, said individual’s church community doesn’t ask them to confess their sin of having been broken into or point to that incident as being a sign of said individual’s moral failings.
To any and all victims, I say the following: YOU are not responsible for the sins of others. YOU do not have to answer for their crimes. YOU did nothing wrong. On the Day of Judgement, it will be your church community that will have to answer for what they did or did not do. At no point on that Day will the Father, Son or Holy Spirit punish you. On that Day, God will grant you peace from that pain and unburden you of all that those around you put you through.
So stop beating yourself up. Remember, YOU didn’t do the crime. STOP DOING THE TIME AND CEASE WITH THE SELF-PUNISHMENT!
“He was a big man, I was a little boy.” (Charles L. Bailey, Jr.)
“It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than to offend one of these little ones. So be careful how you live.” (Luke 17:2-3)
Payday someday.
@ Max:
With that link and the quote at the top of the post came a book and a film:
― Charles L. Bailey Jr., book, In the Shadow of the Cross
– Call Me Lucky, film with Barry Crimmins
“It turns out that this isn’t about individual monsters. It never was. This is about structural violence, about a culture that decided long ago that women’s agency and dignity were worth sacrificing to protect the reputation of powerful men and the institutions that enabled their entitlement. Everyone, including the “good guys,” knew it was happening.”
The Unforgiving Minute by Laurie Penny, Longreads, November 2917
https://longreads.com/2017/11/07/the-unforgiving-minute/?utm_source=Weekly+Longreads+Email&utm_campaign=2c5a59edec-Longreads_Top_5_November_10_2017&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bd2ad42066-2c5a59edec-238670389&mc_cid=2c5a59edec&mc_eid=06f5b264b8
“I’m sick of being asked to suffer so a man can grow.” – Alexandra Petri
“Everyone. ****ing. Knew.” – Scott Rosenberg
@ JYJames:
Also from the aforementioned article, for the Piperdom et al crowd:
“The notion that women’s agency and dignity might be more important than men’s right to act like grabby [bratty] children whenever they want may feel like uncharted territory, but some of us have lived here all along.”
The Unforgiving Minute by Laurie Penny, Longreads, November 2917
Sam wrote:
When I was 30, I was assaulted while asleep in my bed by a complete stranger. I realize I am a statistic and that God’s hand of protection was mighty in those terrifying moments.
What surprised me was the amount of guilt and shame heaped upon me that the attack was my fault. I shouldn’t have rented *that* apartment in *that* part of town. I shouldn’t have been on the ground floor. I shouldn’t have been living on my own. I shouldn’t have had my screen door open to let in the warm breeze on a pleasant May night. And on and on and on. From cops, from friends, from family, from the detectives. It was pervasive.
Victim blaming has got to stop. I never went to counseling…in part because of this blaming. I felt, in part, responsible. I thought if I went to therapy and told the counselor my story she would demand I not waste her time – after all, I survived. I talked down my attacker. I made it through when many other women suffered a much worse fate.
I know now that is false. Simply because no one has the right to enter my property without my consent. And no one has the right to hold me hostage in my house or to touch my body without my “yes” freely given.
The same is true for sexual assault and abuse – of which I am also a survivor. Consent is the key and respect is the rule.
It doesn’t matter if I leave my windows or doors open. It doesn’t matter what how I dress or if I smile at you. If you are not invited in – stay out!
Charis wrote:
Wisdom. Thanks.
Charis wrote:
You’re not a statistic.
And you are right, the only “shouldn’t have” in your story is that the stranger shouldn’t have been on your property, and shouldn’t have been anywhere near you. That is the “shouldn’t have”.
– One more – others hearing your story shouldn’t have put the blame and shame on you, the casualty of a monster.
JYJames wrote:
From men who cannot deal with women as equal people:
“…my entire life I’ve let my fear of women’s rejection control my behavior and that fear seemed so overwhelming that it didn’t matter who got hurt as long as I didn’t have to feel it and everyone else seemed to agree…”
Those who use authority to get what they need/want from relationships are insecure and lazy about doing the work of relating to another as a fellow human being. It’s a hack.
The submission deal in the church is a relationship hack to avoid the art and work of developing authentic relationship. Both men who rule over and women who agree to submit are complicit in this shortcut to nowhere near a mature partnership and bond. The result is a shill, a shell, a sham.
“If I could identify one reason for perpetrating sexual offending, it’s lack of empathy…
offenders have a warped perception of their victims. They believe that the child who enjoys hugs and attention enjoyed or wanted the abuse despite evidence against it…they pick vulnerable victims, then create a false narrative about their victim’s compliance in the abuse. And when they are presented with evidence to why the victim was hurt by the abuse, they use denial tactics like justification, lying, forgetting what happened, omitting information and victim blaming to convince themselves and others that the abuse was OK.”
HuffPost, Quandra Chaffers, LCSW, 11/10/2017 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/masturbation-sexual-assault_us_5a04dcc4e4b05673aa584c89?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
What is the false narrative in the Chantry trial?
Bridget wrote:
Prescott is very small. I think pretty much everybody knew everybody, especially at the time Chantry was a pastor. But you could see the church from their house. My aunt never told me why she was so vehement, but I’ve never forgotten her warning to me about him. I think she knew about the kids. She’s the type of person that would have reported him, and maybe she did.
ION:
Conspiracy theories were all started by the Illuminati.
P.S. That had nothing to do with the thread, BTW. I just thought I should mention it.
PASTORS AND PARENTS TAKE NOTE!
Parents are mandated reporters of their own children!!!!! If you fail to report you will be prosecuted for it! This is one of the first things I looked up as I was getting slammed by our former “pastor” him encouraging me to not be involved with the police investigation. Telling me to stay out of it! Well news flash God led me to looking up the statistics I not only understood my moral responsibility to my child but I was also shown what my legal responsibility was. I not only read it but I wrote out 18 pages front and back of what the law states regarding reporting and what the statistics were regarding child sex abuse. This packet I gave to our former “pastor” Ken Ramey! I’m certain he threw it out. Anyways all this to say is don’t think you will escape consequences the law will not allow it if caught!
We are watching Chantry and those involved now pay a price for not reporting as there should be one! Parents are charged to protect their children. Not just by the highest authority (God) but he also has that set as the law of the land!
ishy wrote:
That makes sense. And since your aunt warned you about him, she obviously had reason to do so. I hope she did report him.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
That’s what they want you to think. In actuality, I have it on good authority that the Illuminati is simply a front organization for a much deeper, and darker syndicate that pulls the strings. I saw it on the grey-web.
@ A.Tumbleweed:
Just cause you’re not paranoid doesnt mean their not following you. Lol
@ Nick Bulbeck:
@ shauna:
Found this:
“Posted Nov 09, 2015 · Edited #10 http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/the-pagan-games-of-macarthur-trained-pastor-ken-ramey-7783663 ”
“There is a wealth of evidence that John Macarthur is a Freemason and Druid. (See John Macarthur’s Druid Festival and John Macarthur: Freemason). There are four major Druid/Wiccan sabbats: Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh, and Samhain. Macarthur’s Camp Regen is the Druid Festival of Lughnasadh.”
“Pastor Ken Ramey of Lakeside Bible Church has worked as a pastor at Grace Community Church and has received at least 3 degrees from The Masters College and The Masters Seminary. Because the video is posted on his churches resources page, I assume young church members from Lakeside Bible Church participated in Macarthur’s Camp Regen 2010 in Glorietta, NM.”
Disturbing.
I am familiar with these games they had the children play as Billy was at one of those camps which they played with parts of dead animals. I did not find out this had gone on until I saw the photos and video’s posted at Lakeside Bible Church website. Needless to say I was furious. The only good thing that came out of it is Billy did not participate. He stated to me that it not only scared him but he didn’t like the thought of animal parts being used for the games. The kids noticed my sons lack of participation and threw some of the animals at billy thinking it was funny. My son confirmed that they did use a trash can as a place to put the parts and encircled it while linking hands. The children were to do a tug of war basically be jerked around until one was pulled over the trash can. At the time Billy did not know it was something bad which is why he did not say anything to me about it after returning from camp! None of the kids told their parents that I am aware of. Why would they though? The leaders were pulling the parts out having the children lick them or kiss the raw meat in the heat! The whole event is disturbing to say the least and I don’t care who it is putting it on. I had never in my life heard of a church or a camp doing that with children. It’s dangerous playing with parts of animals and putting them to your mouth (according to the health department and common sense), it desensitizes children to animals lacking empathy. Any church participating in such an activity should be ashamed of themselves. JYJames wrote:
@ JYJames:
Thanks, JYJames, for sharing the link to the Longreads post.
Until the “C”hurch (the whole Body of Christ) is willing to tell all of the stories humbly, honestly, and humanely, and call BS on “c”hurches that protect abusers and silence victims, we are no different from Hollyweird. God help us all to speak up.
@ Charis:
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. It’s true though, even some counselors buy into the whole victim-shaming shtick.
I will be praying for you. Stay strong!
@ Jenny:
Welcome.
Excellent article and brought to mind the work of TWW, Dee and Deb, et al.
Speaking of John MacArthur, many of you have already seen this where he appears to teach that you can take the mark of the beast and still get into Heaven:
http://watch.pairsite.com/macarthur-1-mark-of-beast.html
A.Tumbleweed wrote:
This man was caught and charged after 30yrs.
http://www.ayradvertiser.com/news/15654750.Maybole__sex_cult__man_facing_jail_for_child_abuse/
Avid Reader wrote:
Bah. That’s the only hope for you bunch of haters and gossips.
You’re all rubbish.
Up Yours,
Roger Bombast
@ JYJames:
“The submission deal in the church is a relationship hack to avoid the art and work of developing authentic relationship. Both men who rule over and women who agree to submit are complicit in this shortcut to nowhere near a mature partnership and bond. The result is a shill, a shell, a sham.”
+++++++++++++
wow, that’s really good, JY. The ‘art and work of developing authentic relationship’ — such a great way to put it.
the articles you’re referencing are so …. honest. bare. eloquently so.
the honesty, and it being heard. it feels like a miracle.
at least, it feels like it’s being heard, that the collective consciousness is finally doing an ah so.
but is it? skipping over the knuckleheads who will never get it, is the message crystallized in what Laurie Penney and Scott Rosenberg had to say being heard?
A.Tumbleweed wrote:
Or you’ve been listening to Coast to Coast AM lately.
I was checking it out one night last week for a weirdness fix and got a very uninteresting Conspiracy Rant from some author of a book about the “Deep State” trying to destroy Our Hero Donald Trump. These days it’s “All Conspiracy, All The Time”, delivered with the total solemnity of The True Believer — WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE CRYPTOZOOLOGY, UFOLOGY, GHOST STORIES, AND GENUINE WEIRDNESS?
sandy c wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mRl9tW3kE
(Couldn’t find an actual music video where you didn’t have to sit through several minutes of ads…)