Mark Driscoll Ministries – Is It Really Just About Jesus?

“He was really important – in the Internet age, Mark Driscoll definitely built up the evangelical movement enormously. But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness in personal relationships – which he himself has confessed repeatedly – was obvious to many from the earliest days, and he has now definitely now disillusioned quite a lot of people.”

Tim Keller (NYT Article)

https://twitter.com/pastormark?lang=enMark Driscoll’s Twitter

Three years ago Mark Driscoll’s ministry was in serious trouble. No doubt many of Mark’s followers must have found it difficult to believe that the man who founded Seattle’s Mars Hill Church, which grew to a purported 15,000 members at 15 different campuses, could suddenly be facing the end of his ministerial career.

Because of Mars Hill’s explosive growth, Mark Driscoll drew the attention of both the secular and Christian media. When it was discovered that his ministry was in jeopardy, The New York Times published an article entitled: A Brash Style That Filled Pews, Until Followers Had Their Fill (8/22/14)

Here is an excerpt from that NYT piece:

Mark Driscoll has long been an evangelical bad boy, a gifted orator and charismatic leader who built one of the nation’s most influential megachurches despite, or perhaps fueled by, a foul mouth, a sharp temper and frank talk about sex.

The church he founded, Mars Hill, enjoyed rapid growth in the Pacific Northwest — one of the most secular regions of the nation — and it claims 15,000 members worshiping at 15 campuses in five Western states, and 200,000 more people watching its services online every week. Mr. Driscoll became a celebrity in conservative Christianity, a sought-after speaker and prolific author known for a celebration of masculinity that helped Mars Hill attract young men, a demographic noted in church life mostly for its absence.

But now Mr. Driscoll’s empire appears to be imploding. He has been accused of creating a culture of fear at the church, of plagiarizing, of inappropriately using church funds and of consolidating power to such a degree that it has become difficult for anyone to challenge or even question him. A flood of former Mars Hill staff members and congregants have come forward, primarily on the Internet but also at a protest in front of the church, to share stories of what they describe as bullying or “spiritual abuse,” and 21 former pastors have filed a formal complaint in which they call for Mr. Driscoll’s removal as the church’s leader.

For our readers who may be unfamiliar with what happened at Mars Hill Church, the circumstance that eventually led to the downfall of Mark’s ministry (and thereby the church) occurred way back in 2007 when Mark Driscoll wanted to consolidate power through a revision of the church bylaws. The NYT article provided the following explanation:

Mr. Driscoll’s critics trace the church’s troubles to 2007, when the pastor demanded a revision of the church’s bylaws to reduce the authority of most of the church’s elders. Two elders who objected were fired, and the church then ordered one of them shunned, meaning that all Mars Hill members were to cease contact with him, his wife and his children, effectively eliminating their social world.

“It was devastating,” said Paul A. Petry, the elder who was fired and shunned. Rob Smith, a deacon who quit to protest the bylaw changes, recalled that Mr. Driscoll became abusively irate with him. “He said, ‘I will destroy you, and I will destroy your ministry.’ ” In the months that followed, Mars Hill members en masse stopped contributing to a foundation Mr. Smith was running to help orphans in southern Africa, eliminating a major source of the organization’s funding, he said.

No doubt this had become ‘Mark’s Hill’, and anyone at the church who dared to challenge Mark Driscoll faced dire consequences.

Believe it or not, Mark Driscoll was one of the original Council Members for The Gospel Coalition (TGC) and TGC’s co-founder, Tim Keller, had this to say about Mark (see screen shot below):

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/us/mark-driscoll-is-being-urged-to-leave-mars-hill-church.htmlYes, it was definitely the internet that gave Mark Driscoll the ability to reach a worldwide audience and impact countless young pastors and pastor wannabes who desired to emulate his brash persona.

To be honest, it has been wonderful over the last couple years having Mark Driscoll out of the spotlight. But alas, Mark has revived his ministry in Phoenix of all places! (is anyone surprised by the new location?)

Dee and I are grateful for Warren Throckmorton, who continues to keep his readers informed about Mark Driscoll. You may recall that Warren (and other bloggers at Patheos) were highly perturbed when Driscoll was recently added as a Patheos contributor. We wrote about the recent development in a post entitled Patheos is Now Hosting Mark Driscoll’s Blog. Driscoll has moved all of his archives to Patheos, and he continues to blog on a regular basis.

Throckmorton’s post After the Demise of Mars Hill Church, Mark Driscoll Landed On His Feet With Over One Million Dollars in Donations, provides a glimpse into the financials of Mark Driscoll Ministries, which we will get into momentarily.

As Warren aptly points out, Kirsten Powers, a reporter for The Washington Post, is deeply disturbed by the addition of Driscoll’s blog to the Patheos website. She titled her article – Why is a popular interfaith website giving a disgraced misogynist pastor a platform?

Well, we think we all know the primary reason that Driscoll’s blog has been added. ($$$)

We believe it’s all about the money… And speaking of the Almighty Dollar, Mark Driscoll Ministries has been raking in the dough over the last couple years, according to the ministry’s filings with the Internal Revenue Service. Warren Throckmorton provided links to the ministry’s tax forms in his post (see below).

2014 Form 990

2015 Form 990

Here are some screen shots regarding Driscoll’s ministries (note that it is now plural) from the nonprofit explorer section of another website – propublica.org (link)

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/472485096Question – Why is Mark Driscoll Ministries based in Tulsa, Oklahoma??? The ministry’s tax-exemption was granted in 2015. He had just resigned as pastor of Mars Hill Church the previous year, so Mark wasted no time getting back into business (so to speak).

Here are the financials from 2015 (see screen shot below).

 

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/472485096Note the sizeable contributions in this first full year of ministry, and also the executive compensation. We believe Mark Driscoll is the only ‘executive’.

The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) does not have a listing for ‘Mark Driscoll Ministries” at this time. Perhaps that’s not surprising given the fact that the ECFA was named as a co-conspirator in a lawsuit against Mark Driscoll. Warren Throckmorton wrote about the lawsuit here.

We appreciate what Throckmorton wrote in his most recent post about Mark Driscoll. (see screen shot below)

* * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * *

While we have some empathy for the Martians (Mars Hill members were fondly called this) who funded Mark Driscoll’s first ministry, we will have absolutely no sympathy for those who fund his current “ministries”.

As the saying goes, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”


Comments

Mark Driscoll Ministries – Is It Really Just About Jesus? — 94 Comments

  1. Why do people keep giving money to this man and his “ministries”? He is a false teacher, an unrepentant pastor who pretends to have “learned his lesson.” But I think he still owes former Mars Hills members a big confession of his sin and “please forgive me–what can I can do to make things right?”

  2. Question: “Is it really just about Jesus?”
    Answer : Only if Mark Driscoll is really Jesus……… Yeah, right what are the odds?

    Please say a little prayer for me. I am crashing (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome relentless exhaustion and some pain). And, we had to put our Great Pyrenees down Friday. We miss him, but it’s okay. It was his time. We had 9 1/2 great years with a big, big dog who was abandoned down in the woods when he was 6 months old! Three weeks ago, we aquired two more abandoned dogs, a young mother and a puppy – we’re keeping them.

  3. The 2015 Form 990, Part IX Line 24a lists an amount of $104,550 for Housing Allowance. Isn’t this amount in addition to $184,200 Executive compensation for a total of at least $288,000? Wow!

  4. I wonder if there isn’t a money laundering operation going on. Maybe his “donors” are shells funneling whatever Mars Hill cash he was able to ride off with.

  5. This money and churches….When will people learn? Do they think they’re buying their way to heaven?

  6. So, Mr Driskle’s business acronym.

     “MLM” = “multi-level marketing”
     “MDM” = “multi-devil marketing”

    Presumably.

  7. While I feel no sympathy for old or new Mars Hill adherents, It’s an odious theology. I feel bad for any wives and children who got shanghaied into it.

  8. Well, it’s obvious to me that the trouble with all of you is that you’re looking for the perfect church.

    What I would say is, if you ever find the perfect church, don’t join it – you’ll spoil it.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Arnold Smartarse

  9. Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:

    Question: “Is it really just about Jesus?”
    Answer : Only if Mark Driscoll is really Jesus……… Yeah, right what are the odds?
    Please say a little prayer for me. I am crashing (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome relentless exhaustion and some pain). And, we had to put our Great Pyrenees down Friday. We miss him, but it’s okay. It was his time. We had 9 1/2 great years with a big, big dog who was abandoned down in the woods when he was 6 months old! Three weeks ago, we aquired two more abandoned dogs, a young mother and a puppy – we’re keeping them.

    Aw, Nancy2. Sure thing I’ll keep you in prayer. CFS is so debilitating. Our furry friends really do tug at our hearts, and so it’s especially hard when we lose them. Being kind to animals as you have been points to your goodness, Nancy. Hang in there and may you be blessed with a reprieve from the pain that your body is going through.

  10. Jack wrote:

    While I feel no sympathy for old or new Mars Hill adherents, It’s an odious theology. I feel bad for any wives and children who got shanghaied into it.

    Right on, Jack. I wish I could erase that Song of Solomon sermon he preached over in Scotland. It was Christian porn and people were lapping it up.

  11. K.D. wrote:

    This money and churches….When will people learn? Do they think they’re buying their way to heaven?

    They might very well think they are buying “fire” insurance. All of this reminds me of young men that frequent night clubs, gentlemen’s clubs, etc. thinking by spending a lot of money they can win the affections of a young woman. They never learn that it’s just a business, the women are indifferent and are there to separate them from their money.

  12. Well, I think you’re all making a big fuss about nothing. Surely you want people to hear about Jesus. Obviously Pass Dum Ark is all about Jesus, because he says he’s all about Jesus, which goes to show his humility. Jesus would never have blessed him with so much money if he was dishonest.

    God Bless,

    Arnold Dummarse

  13. @ Jack:
    How far is Scottsdale from Albuquerque? How far is Scottsdale from the US border?

    Or, what is the average income of a Scottsdale resident? The median household income is $72,455.

  14. Well, at least Driscoll is being honest and not treating his “ministry” as a church auxiliary, unlike 9 Marks. The rule is that if 50% or more of support comes from the public, then a Form 990 is required. I have made multiple attempts to get clarification from 9 Marks concerning this exemption, but they have not responded.

  15. Ken G wrote:

    They never learn that it’s just a business, the women are indifferent and are there to separate them from their money.

    I have more respect for the girls who work Rahab’s cathouse and the strip clubs than I have for Driscoll, Robert Morris, James Robison, C.J. Mahaney, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler,…. you get the picture

  16. Himalaya wrote:

    The website that has the 2015 financials also contains a link to the 2016 Form 990. It shows that contributions went down from $563K in 2015 to $522K in 2016. But compensation went up, from $184K in 2015 to $200K in 2016! So I guess that means that when donations go down, MD becomes even more valuable!!

    https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/472485096/201720119349300927/IRS990

    You will also notice that his reported hours per week in the Form 990 dropped from 40 in 2014 to 25 in 2015. So, his hourly rate (so to speak) went from about $92 to $200 per hour!

  17. To clarify the timing of his compensation reporting. Please notice that the ministry is on a November fiscal year, so the salaries reported on the 2014 Form 990 are pretty much for 2015 and the 2015 amount is for 2016.

  18. Oh, and the $104,000 housing allowance reported in the Form 990 for 2015 would add another $100 per hour to his compensation, bringing it up to $300 per hour. Thus, if Mr. Driscoll converted his 25 hour per week part time job with the “ministry” to a 40 hour per week full time job, his compensation would have increased to over $600,000 per year.

    I fail to see how this is a reasonable amount of compensation for a so-called “minister of the gospel.” Especially for a disgraced one. Thinking there would be a steep discount for his services rather than a huge premium!

  19. Muff Potter wrote:

    I have more respect for the girls who work Rahab’s cathouse and the strip clubs than I have for Driscoll, Robert Morris, James Robison, C.J. Mahaney, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler,…. you get the picture

    According to Quora, the average prostitute in the USA charges $200 per hour for their services. So, it appears that Mr. Driscoll charges 50% more. He’s pretty high end!

  20. I think I am a little off on my calculation of his hourly rate. Assuming that his housing allowance of $104,550 is tax free and he is in the 33% tax bracket (combined Federal and Arizona), the value of the housing allowance would be about $156,000. Add this to his reported compensation of $204,000 and the total is $360,000. Assuming a 50 week work year, and this comes to $7,200 per week. At 25 hours per week, his hourly rate, ignoring other perks, would be only $288 per hour.

  21. The ministry’s board would have approved the salary. Tope Koleoso is from Nigeria where the per capita income is about $3,900 per year. At an hourly rate of $288 per hour and a 2,000 hour work year, the full time equivalent salary for Mr. Driscoll would be $576,000. This would be equivalent to hiring 148 Nigerians.

  22. Jack wrote:

    I wonder if there isn’t a money laundering operation going on. Maybe his “donors” are shells funneling whatever Mars Hill cash he was able to ride off with.

    I don’t think that Driscoll has to launder money or have any “shell” donors. He has enough true believers in him that they will contribute money willingly, as unwise as it may be. The Celebrity Pastor Culture is a powerful thing.

  23. ION: Earworms

    Today’s earworm is Beethoven’s 5th Piano Concerto, and in particular the slightly louder bit in the middle of the slow movement for some reason.

    IHTIH

  24. “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness… was obvious to many from the earliest days…”

    If Keller is correct, to me this is the most disconcerting part of all. From the earliest days, he says, and yet MD still acquired followers in the many thousands.

  25. Dale Rudiger wrote:

    Assuming that his housing allowance of $104,550 is tax free and he is in the 33% tax bracket (combined Federal and Arizona), the value of the housing allowance would be about $156,000. Add this to his reported compensation of $204,000 and the total is $360,000. Assuming a 50 week work year, and this comes to $7,200 per week. At 25 hours per week, his hourly rate, ignoring other perks, would be only $288 per hour.

    NICE. RACKET.

  26. NJ wrote (quoting the post’s quotation from Tim Keller):

    “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness… was obvious to many from the earliest days…”

    AWWBA, the greatest commandment is (short story even shorter) love God with everything you’ve got. And the second is like it: Love your neighbour as yourself. So much like it, in fact, that John equated them very strongly. Whoever claims to love God and does not love his fellow believers, said John, is a liar.

    In the evangelical industrial complex, where numerical returns are everything (and the deceitfulness of riches has an accordingly strong appeal), nobody seems to care about how we treat one another. Much less do these folk realise that it actually matters, a very great deal.

  27. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    NICE. RACKET.

    His tax-free housing allowance is more than I get paid at the evil too big to fail employer. It’s people like Mark Driscoll who make people like me somewhat antsy about the fact that ministers get a tax-free housing allowance. With an $8,712.50 a month housing allowance, he’s living in a very nice house somewhere in North Scottsdale, probably on a golf course.

  28. Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:

    Uhmmmmm……..
    What does MD do with the donations to his “ministries”?

    He pays himself a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. He has a really nice tax-free housing allowance that’s over $100,000. He has a website that he has to keep up. He’s got to pay somebody to send out the begging emails and put together the occasional crumbs that he throws out to people who go to the Mark Driscoll Ministries website. And all for 25 hours a week. Whatta deal.

  29. JYJames wrote:

    How far is Scottsdale from Albuquerque? How far is Scottsdale from the US border?
    Or, what is the average income of a Scottsdale resident? The median household income is $72,455.

    My mom’s family lived in Scottsdale for many years. Scottsdale is maybe 7 hours from Albuquerque and maybe 2-3 from the border to Mexico. It has a pretty high income level, though, and has been increasing. Especially up on the mountain, you get a good number of million dollar homes. And they have a big tourist trade. It’s also really easy to drive into Phoenix or ride the bus. Commute wasn’t bad at all.

  30. Most of you probably know about The Elephant’s Debt, the folks that track the reprehensible actions of James MacDonald at Harvest Bible Fellowship. Until recently MacDonald ruled his church and church-planting ministry with an iron fist, and came out of the deal quite well financially… a lot like Driscoll.

    There’s a new article on the TED site: https://theelephantsdebt.com/2017/10/24/hbf-audit-macdonalds-character-and-a-little-matter-called-hush-money/

    The article has a copy of a 5-page document describing a recent (failed) audit of HBF et al. I note with interest, at the bottom of page two, this: “Discretionary Spending. The big issue here was who has the authority to decide how money is spent. The small example was a $50k check to Trinity Church (Mark Driscoll). […]”

    Yep… the good ol’ boy (reformed) network is also a financial network. Naturally one of Driscoll’s pals would funnel money to him to further his new “ministries”. Ugh.

  31. Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:

    Please say a little prayer for me. I am crashing (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome relentless exhaustion and some pain).

    Am apologizing in advance if I’m giving you unwanted advice, but I have been dealing with somewhat similar health issues for almost two decades, and know too many local people dealing with it (also have communicated with people around the world about it).

    If you haven’t already considered Dr. Rawl’s research and program, then I would HIGHLY recommend it. He’s in the great state of NC. His herbal program combined with his diet routine has helped a boat load of folks.

    https://rawlsmd.com/

  32. Muslin fka Deana Holmes wrote:

    He pays himself a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. He has a really nice tax-free housing allowance that’s over $100,000.

    His church, Trinity Church, has several pastors: Pastor of Creative Communication and Production, Ministries Pastor, Worship Pastor. It seems that these pastors are not compensated, could there be another Form 990 for the church?

  33. @ Ken G:
    Churches aren’t required to file Form 990 like other non-profits do.

    But yes, I wouldn’t expect to find Trinity Church staff and other expenses in the “Driscoll Ministries” Form 990. I’m sure the church is incorporated separately.

  34. Dee & Deb,

    Are you all familiar with The Expositors Seminary? It might be interesting to go check out their website! Mr. Rick Holland is one of the teachers. This seminary is used to train men in the McArthur / Calvinist churches to make them elders, missionaries, pastors, for further indoctrination. A lot of your seminary students are coming from McArthur’s sister churches where kids from grade school and men are being trained to be shipped off. My theory of course but I have seen it with elders going to DTS and this expositors seminary located in Houston. They have several locations now and are doing a lot of it via satellite.

    They have the seminary wives Fellowship

    Sermons

    Share

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    Grouped by Category: Sem Wives Fellowship

    Listen

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    Aug 25, 2014

    Balancing Home & Ministry

    | Category: Sem Wives Fellowship | Speaker: Dave Diez

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    Sep 22, 2013

    Understanding Your Husband in His Ministry-Part 2

    | Category: Sem Wives Fellowship | Speaker: Dr. George Zemek

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    Aug 26, 2013

    Understanding Your Husband in His Ministry~Part 1

    | Category: Sem Wives Fellowship | Speaker: Dr. George Zemek

  35. NJ wrote:

    “obvious to many from the earliest days…”

    And yet Keller was a supporter from the earliest days. Keller even spoke at Mars Hill in Seattle, a PR victory which gave Driscoll much credence.

  36. @ Himalaya:

    Unless stated otherwise, compensation could include anyone on church payroll, not just MD. Might need to check this out before any conclusions are reached.

  37. ishy wrote:

    Especially up on the mountain, you get a good number of million dollar homes.

    That’s “million dollar homes” at ARIZONA real estate prices, NOT California.

  38. Todd Wilhelm wrote:

    Many in the UK weren’t lapping up anything of Driscoll’s. They seem to have more discernment than American evangelicals.

    The fact that he went out of his way to insult UK evangelicals might have something to do with that.

  39. @ Cobber:
    >Website says firm started in 52 in Tulsa working wirh churches. Oral Roberts had his 1at tent eeting in Tulsa in 47.

    In the 50s Billy James Hargis, early type of televangelist, the ministry behind Rhema Bible Church, and others were getting established in Tulsa.

  40. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Todd Wilhelm wrote:

    Many in the UK weren’t lapping up anything of Driscoll’s. They seem to have more discernment than American evangelicals.

    The fact that he went out of his way to insult UK evangelicals might have something to do with that.

    Sadly that is correct. Years ago he was invited to speak at a UK Mens Convention whuch sadly lacks any discernment. But I don’t think he has been invited back after his insults. Other Gospel Glitterati preachers are still invited to speak at FIEC churches regularly- Carson, Piper, Deyoung, Anyabwile, Baucham etc. In these circles there is a WILFUL blindness to their false doctrine. I tried to warn several church leaders until I was blue in the face but they don’t care. As long as they are complimentarian then they are in the good old boys club.

  41. And as I write this, Voddie Baucham is speaking here in the UK at a creationist conference and Thabiti Anywhere is due to speak at a national conference soon. 🙁

  42. kin wrote:

    but I have been dealing with somewhat similar health issues for almost two decades,

    It’s three decades for me & I’ll look at this site, so many thanks. What has been most useful for me was a brain ‘re-training’ thing called the Lightening Process, which has improved my health about 50 – 60%. I need to get my notes out & do a refresher actually. Will pray for all here who suffer the same, it has derailed my entire life.

  43. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    The fact that he went out of his way to insult UK evangelicals might have something to do with that.

    And how we laughed at that – listening to MD go on about the radio host about not being manly enough & his wife not being submissive enough (if I remember rightly) as though he had any authority to lay down the law was both awful & genuinely funny. He came across as such an arrogant idiot.

  44. @ TomkeinOK:

    So the firm has a history with area evangelists? Interesting. As an Okie by birth and former T-town area resident, I’m well acquainted with Roberts, Hargis, Rhema, etc. but I didn’t know the “tradition” continues. Some things never change, I guess.

  45. bendeni wrote:

    Yep… the good ol’ boy (reformed) network is also a financial network. Naturally one of Driscoll’s pals would funnel money to him to further his new “ministries”. Ugh.

    That is not a reformed network…it is good ol’ boy, full stop. Driscoll isn’t claiming to be reformed and MacDonald cannot be considered one either given the praise he heaped on “Bishop” TD Jakes, whose theology (former modalist) is secondary to his doctrine of the tithe.

    The Good Ol’ Boy network is found throughout the Big Eva world, regardless of the theological persuasion. As one who considers himself classical reformed (I cannot believe that I even have to qualify what kind of reformed I am referring to), it is a bit wearisome to see reformed theology become the whipping boy for the/every sinful action(s) of Christian leaders.

  46. Joining the discussion late.

    You ask “Is It Really Just About Jesus?”

    From what I have seen and read is that with narcissistic leaders such as what I see with Mark Driscoll is that they crave attention.

    Thus when they fall like happened with his Washington state church and they aren’t in a position of power they miss that along with the attention and admiration. Thus they are quick to try and come back get this power and attention back. Also a characteristic of a narcissist is that they can’t really see what they did wrong or try and minimize it.

    IMO it really isn’t about Jesus or the gospel but Mark Dricsoll wanting to feed his narcissistic needs.

  47. @ ZechZav:

    conferences… merely an excuse for a change to the routine. a brief escape from reality.

    you get to miss work, go somewhere different

    enjoy the social aspect of being in large company of friendly-seeming people (especially if you go with friends).

    don’t have to cook

    you get to sit and relax and receive, the entire time

    hear a few things that strike you just right. only a few, but those don’t really stick either but fade away like all the other bits of the lecture.

    really, it’s like going to the movies or to a concert, but with the feeling of God points added to your God account.

    for the speakers, it feeds their rock star fantasy. going on tour, stage, lights, groupies, attention, fame, money…

    so silly…. so so silly

    it’s not about God. it’s about me me me me me me me

  48. @ Ken G:

    Thanks. I had not followed through to Schedule J.

    Anyone giving money to MD better be checking out his finances. $207,000 for 25 hours per week is outrageous for a minister. I don’t see much Christianity going on with those numbers. The fact that MD has no problem taking the money is a huge red flag.

  49. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    The fact that he went out of his way to insult UK evangelicals might have something to do with that.

    It’s hard to ken which was cause and which was effect here. He may well have insulted UK evangelicals reactively, precisely because they didn’t lap up his nonsense.

  50. Bridget wrote:

    Anyone giving money to MD better be checking out his finances. $207,000 for 25 hours per week is outrageous for a minister. I don’t see much Christianity going on with those numbers. The fact that MD has no problem taking the money is a huge red flag.

    And he also gets a $104,000 housing allowance which is tax free. His total compensation is in excess of $300,000 for 25 hours per week.

  51. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    Today’s earworm is Beethoven’s 5th Piano Concerto, and in particular the slightly louder bit in the middle of the slow movement for some reason.

    Do you use Franz Liszt’s arrangement?

  52. elastigirl wrote:

    it’s not about God. it’s about me me me me me me me

    But the crowds lap that sh… er… ah… stuff up like it’s ambrosia.

  53. i daresay MD is becoming banal, pedestrian,…& of course odious. kind of like dogdoo you pass by walking the neighborhood, ick but oh well.

    but maybe we can rattle the neighborhood to come together to clean it up. “no, as a matter of fact were NOT going to stand for ministers who exploit and self-enrich.”

  54. @ Muff Potter:

    No, the original; and no one particular performance either. Actually, I didnae ken Liszt had done an arrangement, although it doesn’t surprise me.

  55. TedS. wrote:

    NJ wrote:
    “obvious to many from the earliest days…”

    And yet Keller was a supporter from the earliest days. Keller even spoke at Mars Hill in Seattle, a PR victory which gave Driscoll much credence.

    boys club.

  56. elastigirl wrote:

    @ ZechZav:
    sorry for these plastic exports shipping themselves over to you

    It’s our own fault because we are silly enough to give them platforms and sell their books!

  57. TWW hits the nail on the head. Driscoll’s problems started with the change of the bylaws in 2007. Prior to that he was accountable to others. After that he accounted to men that he handpicked and could fire. It was the beginning of the end at that point. It was also the beginning of his departure from anything Reformed. A bulwark of Reformed thinking is a plurality of leadership. I often wonder what the sort would be had he humbled himself and listened to those of us older men who opposed the bylaw change of 2007.

  58. Rob Smith wrote:

    Driscoll’s problems started with the change of the bylaws in 2007. Prior to that he was accountable to others. After that he accounted to men that he handpicked and could fire.

    I’m interested in your thoughts here, Rob, and in particular on the degree to which Driskle was accountable prior to the bylaw change. I’m not trying to nitpick here; I know what you (presumably) meant by this. On paper, he was accountable. But looking at it from a different perspective, “being accountable” and “giving preference to one another in honour” aren’t the same thing.

    The fact that Driskle was able to push through his changes with no effective opposition, and not only that but to destroy the relationships of those who actually tried to hold him to account, suggests that in reality he was already accountable to no-one. As far as I understand it, Driskle did not found Mars Hill – he co-founded it along with Mike Gunn and Lief Moi; but both of them dropped out of sight quite quickly. I use that phrase, for want of a better one; but neither, for instance, is widely associated with Mars Hill in either the christian or the secular media to my knowledge.

  59. ___

    Accountable To Christ: “The Fields Are White With Harvest?”

    hmmm…

    Dear Rob Smith,

    Respectfully,

    Unfortunately, mis-representation of Christ Jesus our Savior WAS and presently currently IS Reverend Mark Driscoll’s ‘root’ problem.

    The tares in the Lord’s fields are designated ONLY for a season…

    The Lord’s harvest will be bountiful, never-the-less!

    YaHoooooooo!

    Prayerfully Watch For It!

    Be reminded that those who deceitfully sow weed’d seeds in His fields will subject to a steep tax.

    Further on up the road…

    ATB

    Sòpy
    ___
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78gR3Dlj7l0

    😉

    – –

  60. At any rate, back to this thread’s question up top:

    “is it really just about Jesus?”

    Answer:
    No it’s not. It’s all about Mark Driscoll.

  61. @ Muff Potter:

    I rather think that, once the business model was fully established, the formally defined role of a rank and file member of Mark’s Hill Church was to be “a nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody”.

    No prizes for guessing who “somebody” is in this context. (Clue: “I am the brand”.)

  62. From the article above:
    “To be honest, it has been wonderful over the last couple years having Mark Driscoll out of the spotlight.”

    No kidding!
    His attention seeking behavior, besides being psychotic, is distracting people away from the main thing. Tired of him saying that it is all about Jesus when really it’s all about Mark Driscoll. He couldn’t lead a quiet life* even if his life depended on it.

    (*I Thessalonians 4:ll and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,)

  63. Lea wrote:

    Ken G wrote:

    And he also gets a $104,000 housing allowance which is tax free.

    My whole house was less than that.

    Same here.

  64. TomkeinOK wrote:

    @ Cobber:
    >Website says firm started in 52 in Tulsa working wirh churches. Oral Roberts had his 1at tent eeting in Tulsa in 47.

    In the 50s Billy James Hargis, early type of televangelist, the ministry behind Rhema Bible Church, and others were getting established in Tulsa.

    Oh yeah, Billy James Hargis.
    He was still on Christianese AM Radio in the Late Seventies/Early Eighties.
    I remember his intro:
    “Reverend Billy James Hargis — For Christ AND AGAINST COMMUNISM!!!!!”

  65. Lea wrote:

    Ken G wrote:
    And he also gets a $104,000 housing allowance which is tax free.

    My whole house was less than that.

    Same here.
    (Though in SoCal, that meant a Repo 2 BR condo with basement garage circa 1997.)

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